Apple Education and Screen Readers

Yea, I think this would be necessary for the education market.

Making this product open source would be nice, but not practical.

Universal Access in Panther also reads text aloud if you move the mouse pointer over it. Very much like how screen readers have worked in the past under Mac OS 9. They obviously missed that feature and probably why the third party stopped developing it for the Mac.

While the article goes on to suggest that Apple should release the Screen-reader software as open source, even by providing the software for a discounted price to Mac users, it would represent a significant savings advantage for consumers purchasing Macs. The same software costs between $800-$1,300 for licenses on Windows.

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If those figures are true that would obliterate the up-front cost difference between Macs and PC's for school use. Assuming the school was required to buy screen reading software for the PC's, which I don't know the exact term of the law (wasn't it section 502 or something like that) but maybe they're required to now.

Actually, if we're talking about eMac that would make the Mac cheaper. No total-cost-of-ownership presentations or IT support opinions would be needed to show schools the value.

I would offer it for free and open source to canabalize Screen Reader sales. Give 'em the finger I say!

crappy article

Although this is an important issue, I think this was one of the crappiest articles I've read in a long time. Just poorly put.

First, there's this quote:
"VERY ANNOYED."_ Equal-access advocates are up in arms. "I think it's horrible," says Curtis Chong, president of the National Federation for the Blind in Computer Science. Giving blind students Apples will "further isolate blind kids who are already isolated from the basic school population. I'm very annoyed at Apple," says Chong.

It is the software developer who quit Apple, and there's no information that Apple has anything do do with this decision.

Then, the article suggests that the solution is for Apple to create something open-source and release it to the world in some kind of altruistic gesture. While this sounds nice, it might make much more sense for Apple to make it and not release it outside the platform, thereby making Apple machines ADA compliant and furthering their attractivness to education buyers. They suggest that the software is over $1,000 on a PC, so providing it for free to Mac users might prove Apple to be a significant choice.

They also note that Apple has been on this for awhile and, as we all know, Apple does have a demonstrated commitment to Accessibility (just check system preferences, or try pressing ctrl-option-cmd-8 for a quick switch to white-on-black).

What I wish the reporter had done is asked for an official response from Apple for what consumers can do. After reading this article, I would have hoped to know at least the following:
1. Although the developer has ceased development, what versions of the Apple OS does it run on, and is it at least still for sale? No comment in the article.
2. If it doesn't run on OS X, can it run through Virtual PC?
3. What does Apple suggest to education consumers who might have blind clients? There has to be a company response, but this article makes it seem as if Apple missed the boat, dropped the ball, and said c-ya!

That rant over, I do hope that Apple finds a way to address this, and I do hope they release it as a free or low-cost piece of software. If they want to make it open source, that's fine by me. If not, that's OK, too.

Originally posted by gopher
Universal Access in Panther also reads text aloud if you move the mouse pointer over it. Very much like how screen readers have worked in the past under Mac OS 9. They obviously missed that feature and probably why the third party stopped developing it for the Mac.

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it does in Jaguar also, and prob olders, but does it read things like the text on a Safari webpage or iChat messages, when moused over?

It makes sense to me. A great thing Apple could put in their sales pitches to the schools. I would love it if our school district would get us each an iBook to do work on!

Originally posted by dukemeiser
I would offer it for free and open source to canabalize Screen Reader sales. Give 'em the finger I say!

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Hear hear! This was really mean of them. The educational market needs this!

get 'em apple, get 'em!

You have to realize that sometimes people with agendas will demonize the very people they want to help them... it's underhanded, but obviously it's effective. The article portrays Apple in a negative light, and suddenly Apple is on the defensive and is responsible for picking up where a third-party vendor left off. They are now required to act or their reputation will suffer.

It's funny that the person quoted isn't mad at Microsoft for forcing them to spend $1000 per seat, but I guess they think that's ok because the PC world doesn't see the same level of accountability Apple experiences... the downside of being so vertical is that you need to provide a total solution and can't leave it up to other vendors.

Originally posted by ennerseed
it does in Jaguar also, and prob olders, but does it read things like the text on a Safari webpage or iChat messages, when moused over?

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You know, I would swear that right after I installed Panther I was playing around with the accessibility options and found a setting that made it read everything under your mouse.

It seemed to work just about anywhere... menu items, buttons, etc. And this wasn't just in the preferences, I was clicking around in other places.

I only had a second to check on my iBook just now, but I can't seem to find the setting anymore. I'll try it when I get home.

Regardless, speech technology and the guts behind a screen reader are already built into Mac OS X... if it doesn't already do what a screen reader does, it would be an easy thing for Apple to adapt what's already there to that function.

I used to work on an accesibility helpdesk for a government agency, and--frankly--most of the Windows screen reader programs charge you a fortune and aren't very impressive. They're mostly very basic, in fact. They also usually come with a zoom feature (which is definitely built into Mac OS X).

Such an easy thing for Apple to implement... a screen reader should be a feature in the accesibility pane. Free with the OS. Make it so anybody can use a Mac, out of the box, even those who are visually or otherwise impaired.

Originally posted by dukemeiser
I would offer it for free and open source to canabalize Screen Reader sales. Give 'em the finger I say!

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I have always thought that readers for the blind should be an aspect of the os and should be free, you could almost make a case of discrimination out of it by saying that blind people are treated unfairly because they have to purchase extra equipment to make their computer usable. In terms of accessibility I strongly feel that the mac offers the best support for all types of users and that they should push the fact that the os already can do a lot of things that are beneficial to people who are in need of assistance.

Originally posted by the_dalex
You have to realize that sometimes people with agendas will demonize the very people they want to help them... it's underhanded, but obviously it's effective. The article portrays Apple in a negative light, and suddenly Apple is on the defensive and is responsible for picking up where a third-party vendor left off. They are now required to act or their reputation will suffer.

It's funny that the person quoted isn't mad at Microsoft for forcing them to spend $1000 per seat, but I guess they think that's ok because the PC world doesn't see the same level of accountability Apple experiences... the downside of being so vertical is that you need to provide a total solution and can't leave it up to other vendors.

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It's funny how in instances like this that Microsoft almost always gets the benefit of the doubt while Apple almost always doesn't. And you're right, with their vertical structure, it just means that this is yet another issue Apple will again have to solve on their own...and probably end up doing a much better job than the 3rd party was doing before as well.

Originally posted by gopher
Universal Access in Panther also reads text aloud if you move the mouse pointer over it.

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Rather a hit-or-miss process, if you're blind. Sarcasm aside, I do know people with limited vision for whom this might work, but it's not enough for someone totally without sight.

Still, it seems like Apple already has much of the software technology it needs in WebCore and Text-to-Speech. Would/Could Apple possibly release this to the KHTML folks?

Hmm... I wonder if Safari has any support for aural style sheets....

fantastic

The federal guidline is section 508 and it covers more than just screen readers/vision impairments, it is essentially a more general version of the Web Accessibility Initiative guidelines.

With regards to the article, a screen reader is precisely the type of functionality Apple should be doing in house. If the article is correct, this is fantastic.

As was said before: yeah, its sort of pointless to speak the text under your mouse when you're blind

As to where this app would function, it would no doubt function in the os x cocoa/carbon application layer, not on the low level BSD layer. There are already some accessibility frameworks built-in to os x that provide hooks for assistive technologies "for free" as long as the application uses default widgets.

Such a screen reader would need to access those, and ideally would be integrated with Safari as well. That would really be a killer app (in this space anyway). And make sure it works with iTunes

Originally posted by Doctor Q
Darwin is open source, as are certain applications that run on Mac OS X. The Finder itself is not. A screen reader wouldn't be part of Darwin, since the screen reader would be a GUI feature, not a Unix-level feature. Would a screen reader that worked everywhere really be just an application running on Mac OS X, or would it be something built into Mac OS X itself, and therefore not even be a candidate for open source?

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Turn on Personal Web Sharing. Presto, you've just used a GUI feature to activate a Unix-level feature.

Originally posted by gopy
Turn on Personal Web Sharing. Presto, you've just used a GUI feature to activate a Unix-level feature.

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Yeah, but it's a much different thing to go the other way around.

It's possible you could make a unix-level/cli app that controls a gui app. But such a tool would not be portable, as it would be entirely dependent on the windowing system and accessibility APIs, which, as we all know, are only available with an Apple Logo.

section 508, ADA clarification...

The business week article is really kind of misinformed. Title II of the Americans With Disabilities Act (which applies to public schools) does not have specific requirements for the purchase of accessible computing systems, but basically says State and Local Government programs must be accessible to individuals with disabilities. There would be no particular problem with purchasing Windows laptops (w/ screen readers for blind students) for students that needed them, as long as they could receive the same support and use similar applications to the rest of the students using macs.

Having the iLife suite as a core part of the curriculum without an accessible alternative could potentially lead to problems.

Section 508 of the Rehabiliation Act applies specifically to "federal agencies." Schools are not federal agencies, and do not have responsibilities under Section 508. Section 508 explicitly requires the procurement of accessible electronic and information technology...this is where Apple gets hit by not having a screen reader. National security entities are excluded from 508 requirements which is why business with the Dept. of Defense is okay. Basically, companies that want to do business with the federal government need to make sure they address accessibility concerns in the design of IT devices and systems...Apple is moving in this direction and I think it is not only the right thing to do, but also a good business decision.

The apple screen zoom feature, by the way, is excellent, but not necessarily the solution for individuals with visual disabilities. The commercial screen magnification products actually smooth text and make the large sizes very readable...text becomes very pixelated when you zoom in on it using Apple's built-in magnification.

Nate

this is just absolutely rediculous, why is every article about apple so damn negative?! how is it apple's fault that software companies don't update their software?

Originally posted by achmafooma
You know, I would swear that right after I installed Panther I was playing around with the accessibility options and found a setting that made it read everything under your mouse.

It seemed to work just about anywhere... menu items, buttons, etc. And this wasn't just in the preferences, I was clicking around in other places.

I only had a second to check on my iBook just now, but I can't seem to find the setting anymore. I'll try it when I get home.

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Your iBook probably only has 16mb video ram. 32mb vram is required for full-on speech fun.

I work in a special education school district; we're pretty stoked about the screen reader. It's got to be better than JAWS, the windows counterpart....

>Apple should release the Screen-reader software as open source...<

Apple should provide it for free either open source or not. This would completely screw the market for the Windows version.

After they left Apple in a lurch, this would even the score (if not really tip the score).

Re: section 508, ADA clarification...

Originally posted by digidoodle
Section 508 explicitly requires the procurement of accessible electronic and information technology...this is where Apple gets hit by not having a screen reader. National security entities are excluded from 508 requirements which is why business with the Dept. of Defense is okay.

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Section 508 is more of a guideline than anything. There is no section 508 "certification". It also has a pretty large "out" built into it, if the cost of providing the accessibility is too great, it is not required. Basically you have to make a "good faith" effort. If you can prove you tried really really hard, you might not be considered liable.

With regards to National Security entities being exempt, thats only partially true. They only get out of 508 in areas that actually affect national security. ie: the launch button for the minutemen doesn't have to have a screen reader, but the accounting and payroll systems that pay the person pushing that button would.

But this is where it gets hazy. 508 actually says that have to have access to the same information and functionality, not the same system. Some places get around this by actually paying someone to sit next to the user and tell them whats on the screen (I'm not kidding).

This might not seem cost efficient, but it's a decision based on the number of users with a particular disability, and the cost of implementing an accessible system.

As far as Apple losing sales for federal contracts because they don't have a screen reader, yeah, they probably do. If they bundle this one with the OS, maybe their ad campaign could be something like: "OS X, cheaper than paying someone to read to you"

Originally posted by zim
I have always thought that readers for the blind should be an aspect of the os and should be free, you could almost make a case of discrimination out of it by saying that blind people are treated unfairly because they have to purchase extra equipment to make their computer usable.

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Yeah, and if you're missing a hand, you have to buy something that will allow you to input without a keyboard...
True, it's hard for a blind person to use a computer without a screen reader, but that doesn't mean that it must be bundled into the OS.