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Duke Leto
Apr 15, 2008, 07:29 PM
Just wondering how old we all are .. 13 here.



HungrySeacow
Apr 15, 2008, 09:10 PM
LOL approaching 27... It is really sad when you start forgetting how old you are. I almost put 28 :P.

Hawkeye411
Apr 15, 2008, 09:12 PM
So old that I first learned to program using bubble cards :o

Monkaaay
Apr 15, 2008, 09:13 PM
Quickly nearing 26.

Sbrocket
Apr 15, 2008, 09:16 PM
I'm just nearing the boundary between the 2nd and 3rd groups, by a few days, so I'm gonna pretend to use Google Custom Time and go ahead and pick 19-25.

Spike099
Apr 15, 2008, 09:30 PM
22 here.

sushi
Apr 15, 2008, 09:47 PM
So old that I first learned to program using bubble cards :o
Cool! :)

I started with punch cards. Still have a couple that I made over 30 years ago like this one.

aaronw1986
Apr 15, 2008, 09:50 PM
22 as of yesterday.

redwarrior
Apr 15, 2008, 09:53 PM
41
my brother wrote computer software in our basement on TRS-80s
when i went to work at age 19
our disk drives weighed 20lbs each
and megabytes wasnt in our vocabulary!
lol
i can still rock with the best though!

toddburch
Apr 15, 2008, 10:23 PM
Cool! :)

I started with punch cards. Still have a couple that I made over 30 years ago like this one.

I don't have any cards anymore, but I still have the card gauge. ;)

45.

redwarrior
Apr 15, 2008, 10:25 PM
you know
we were using cards!! during the bush/gore presidential election
i worked those elections
and had to run card readers till we needed to water cool them!
jk
but we did have to replace parts!

sushi
Apr 15, 2008, 10:30 PM
you know
we were using cards!! during the bush/gore presidential election
i worked those elections
and had to run card readers till we needed to water cool them!
jk
but we did have to replace parts!
See, good technologies never die! :p

aross99
Apr 15, 2008, 10:47 PM
Cool! :)

I started with punch cards. Still have a couple that I made over 30 years ago like this one.

Sure didn't expect to see punch cards here! It's been a long time (about 30 years for me also), since I worked with these.

Remember how you could delete or insert characters when you "duped" the card, if you held the card down so it didn't move while you duped it?

How about the guy who dropped his card deck with the source to a program, and then had to put all of the cards back in order. :eek:

I have a guy in one of our offices who saves a couple of boxes of these, and he uses them as scrap paper.

I'm going to be 46...

toddburch
Apr 15, 2008, 10:52 PM
I was working for IBM at the time, fixing hardware, and while at customer accounts, I would get on the keypunch machine and type out love notes to my girlfriend. I think she still might have them... I'll have to check. We married 8 years later, and we celebrate our 20 year marriage anniversary next month.

aross99
Apr 15, 2008, 10:56 PM
I was working for IBM at the time, fixing hardware, and while at customer accounts, I would get on the keypunch machine and type out love notes to my girlfriend. I think she still might have them... I'll have to check. We married 8 years later, and we celebrate our 20 year marriage anniversary next month.

Congrats on the 20 years!

Remember the little bucket under the keypunch that caught all of the card that was punched out of holes? Boy did that make a mess if someone "accidently" dumped it out...

While we are on the subject of nostalgia, anyone else ever play "ring-toss" with the write-rings from 9 Track tapes? I still have a drawer full of those too. :D

toddburch
Apr 15, 2008, 11:01 PM
While we are on the subject of nostalgia, anyone else ever play "ring-toss" with the write-rings from 9 Track tapes? I still have a drawer full of those too. :D

Yep! Ever crawl under a floor? Ever fall asleep in the computer room for 2.5 hours and literally drool so much on your red tie it turned black, while the operators were laughing and making sport of you? Ever split your suit pants out bending over when working behind a tape drive?

Ah, those were the times.

redwarrior
Apr 15, 2008, 11:44 PM
um, yes
did that
and still have a had time not looking down on the "operators"!
anyone ever get caught in a halon dump?

MDMstudios
Apr 16, 2008, 01:14 AM
Just wondering how old we all are .. 13 here.

14 here.

Cromulent
Apr 16, 2008, 01:25 AM
Less than a month till I'm 23 :).

matthew858
Apr 16, 2008, 02:35 AM
I'm 13 and just starting to learn Cocoa. What is the best modern way to learn?:confused:

MDMstudios
Apr 16, 2008, 02:37 AM
I'm 13 and just starting to learn Cocoa. What is the best modern way to learn?:confused:

I'd start with Objective-C ( or C if you don't already know it ) and then start reading some documentation that Apple gives out.

pilotError
Apr 16, 2008, 07:44 AM
um, yes
did that
and still have a had time not looking down on the "operators"!
anyone ever get caught in a halon dump?

First Lesson when I was going to school was "Punch Cards Suck"! The teacher made the entire class recite it.

Anybody else work with those 15ft long sorters with the patch cable boards?

I remember getting the green bar paper DEC terminals and thinking that was cool. VT100's and the first color workstations from DEC.

Now you can do more on your iPhone!

A woman at one of our sister companies died when she set off the Halon. She was in a vault that closed and she didn't want to be stuck there the entire weekend, so she hit the alarm. When the gas started flowing, she panicked and didn't grab the oxygen mask.

wrldwzrd89
Apr 16, 2008, 07:58 AM
Quickly nearing 26.
Ditto, I'm 25 but turning 26 soon...

Flynnstone
Apr 16, 2008, 08:07 AM
I managed to avoid the punch cards.
I first learned to program on a Commodore-64. Ah ... BASIC.
Then University, Pascal. I still like Pascal, don't use but like it.
Oh and Fortran too. On teletypes I believe on an Amdahl mainframe.
I remember the Xerox 9700 printers, 2 pages per second! Pop, pop, pop ...
Do they make faster printers now?
I remember walking into a Sun workstation lab, on the flour was a big box. The box was about the size of a 2 drawer lateral filing cabinet. It said "Micro Mini Hard drive" on the box. I almost pissed myself laughing.

lazydog
Apr 16, 2008, 08:56 AM
Gosh… I think I must be the oldest one here :o
I'm 46 and have been programming for um… 26 years now… and I still haven't got the hang of it. Still, life as a programmer has kept me looking young, fit and beautiful :D :D

b e n

mags631
Apr 16, 2008, 09:08 AM
Old enough to know better.

kainjow
Apr 16, 2008, 09:19 AM
Old enough to know better.

Oh really? (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?i=157475580&id=157475523&s=143441) ;)

aLoC
Apr 16, 2008, 09:37 AM
There are all ages where I work. There's guys in their early 20s fresh from Uni. There's guys in their early 30s who know a scary amount. There's guys in their 40s who all seem to have specialized in some niche platform and become high priced contractors.

splashtech
Apr 16, 2008, 09:38 AM
21, soon to be 22. Too young to be nostalgic, too old to feel young :p

Tylox
Apr 16, 2008, 10:00 AM
I am 26, almost 27. I originally started with Basic and Hypercard(if that counts)

rogerco
Apr 16, 2008, 10:01 AM
Interesting choice of age bands in the poll - looks like it must have been set up by some kid who thinks over 35 is old.
I'm not gonna vote 'cos I'm well past 50 and there isn't an appropriate option (don't lump me in with kids of 46 :rolleyes: )
As I look around my office I have two other programmers over 50 and only one under 30 - and he's 30 this year.
Mind you punch card nostalgia is something else - I've got a length of paper tape in my drawer, it is labelled 'mean square successive difference' and is only 2ft 6" long so must be fairly well coded but I can't read it any more...

wrldwzrd89
Apr 16, 2008, 10:01 AM
I am 26, almost 27. I originally started with Basic and Hypercard(if that counts)
Which version of BASIC did you start programming with? I wrote my first program in AppleBASIC for the Apple IIgs, at the age of 6. It was a "guess the randomly generated number" program. :D

SDDave2007
Apr 16, 2008, 10:49 AM
Well so far I guess I qualify as the "old man" of this bunch. I am 52, and have been involved with computers since before most of the rest of you were born. Before Apple existed, before IBM came out with their first PC. Before Radio Shack ever dreamed of the TRS-80 [I was one of the first RS employees to SELL a full TRS-80 system]. And a few years after that, sold Apple ][, Apple /// and Lisa computers [well 1 Lisa anyways].

I programmed in FORTRAN and COBOL using punch cards. The first computer I ever used that had a HARD DISK drive, was the size of a washing machine [just the disk drive]... It was dual 14" platters and held a whopping ONE MEGABYTE! [you should have seen the Star-Trek game we managed to write on THAT sucker :) ]

The first "personal" computer a friend and I had to BUILD [for someone else :( ], it weighed 150lbs. had 480K of floppy disk [dual 8" drives], 48K of RAM, and consumed 22amps of electrictiy.

I have been a Systems Analyst in the Aerospace industry, and currently in the Healthcare industry, and know [or knew] more computer programming languages than I care to think about.


And for the record.... You are NOT a "programmer" [IMHO] until you are being paid on a regular basis, to design, code and implement computer projects. My opinion, no flames required.

lee1210
Apr 16, 2008, 11:48 AM
<snip>
And for the record.... You are NOT a "programmer" [IMHO] until you are being paid on a regular basis, to design, code and implement computer projects. My opinion, no flames required.

That's like calling someone ugly, then saying "No offense" as if that will make it better. =) Tossing out flamebait then saying no flames required isn't fair.

You're not a *professional* programmer until you're paid, but there's plenty of people who are hobby programmers who I think should rightly be able to call themselves programmers. People who aren't on the circuit still call themselves golfers.

-Lee

P.S. I am paid to program (and go to meetings, and write documentation, and...), so this wasn't out of self defense.

kainjow
Apr 16, 2008, 12:03 PM
You're a programmer if you program a computer. No money, degree, or certificate needs to be involved. If you want to call yourself a software engineer/analysis/architect, thats a different story.


As for me I've lived 0x17 years. Started with VisualBasic essentially. However, I really hope I'm not sitting in front of a computer for the next 30 years of my life...

Cromulent
Apr 16, 2008, 12:10 PM
And for the record.... You are NOT a "programmer" [IMHO] until you are being paid on a regular basis, to design, code and implement computer projects. My opinion, no flames required.

So what do you call someone who does not do it professionally then?

yeroen
Apr 16, 2008, 12:37 PM
I'm 34; first programming language was Fortran taken as part of a numerical analysis class in college; Have worked as a professional developer for greater part of the last decade, 90% of it C/C++ (all Unix, never Windows). The rest Perl, Ada, some Java bits, even hateful Fortran.

I never programmed as a kid (never had a computer, never really wanted one, never could afford one anyway), nor did I ever have any special interest in computers even through most of university. I studied (very) pure mathematics as an undergrad and into grad school, so naturally I loved theory (algorithms, complexity, optimization) but found the real substantive, hands-on work to be, well, work. Now I'm older and I know better.

Tylox
Apr 16, 2008, 01:14 PM
Which version of BASIC did you start programming with? I wrote my first program in AppleBASIC for the Apple IIgs, at the age of 6. It was a "guess the randomly generated number" program. :D

Lets see, I believe I started BASIC on an Apple IIe making games based on Random Numbers (D20 style).

himansk
Apr 16, 2008, 01:23 PM
23 here

lazydog
Apr 16, 2008, 01:40 PM
And for the record.... You are NOT a "programmer" [IMHO] until you are being paid on a regular basis, to design, code and implement computer projects. My opinion, no flames required.

That's like saying to Vincent van Gogh, you're not a real painter unless you get regular pay for painting staircases, bridges etc.

b e n

yeroen
Apr 16, 2008, 02:04 PM
To cite an example, look at Jon Lech Johansen, aka DVD Jon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Lech_Johansen

He was only a clever teen, a dropout at that, when he created the DeCSS DVD decryption engine for which he faced criminal prosecution (he was rightfully acquitted).

Cromulent
Apr 16, 2008, 02:16 PM
To cite an example, look at Jon Lech Johansen, aka DVD Jon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Lech_Johansen

He was only a clever teen, a dropout at that, when he created the DeCSS DVD decryption engine for which he faced criminal prosecution (he was rightfully acquitted).

Exactly. Some of the best programmers have been in their teens doing it for fun. Saying that your not a real programmer just because you don't get paid is silly.

iSee
Apr 16, 2008, 02:21 PM
I'm 39 and have been programming since my mother got us a PET when I was ~13. All I wanted it for was to play games on it. My plan was to copy all the tapes they had at my school. My mother was wiley, though, and got the computer at the start of summer break. Without any games to play, I started to program my own. By the time summer was over, I was more interested in programming computer games than in playing them (and I thought the ones the school had were incredibly lame compared to own anyway).

ChrisA
Apr 16, 2008, 03:33 PM
Just wondering how old we all are .. 13 here.

I seriously doubt you will get a good sample here on MR. I'd expect MR readers to be 20 years below the average in the industry. "46+" is a rather wide range so it appears you must have expected such a bias.

If you looked in the real world many people using the Mac have crossed over not from Windows but from other UNIXes. Those "unix people" tend to be older with many approaching retirement. If you strated your career with UNIX when it was the "hot new thing" you would have been working for almost 40 years. This thing we call Mac OS X has code that dates from the early 1970's still in it. I bump into a lot of these people in the hallways here at work. None of them know about MR.

What is the average age. If you move away from web and adnweb-based applications and look at business and technical enginering the ages move up and are no longer skewed so much to those in their early 20s just out of school. I se the normal distribution of 20s to 60s here with about the same age distribution as for electrical or mechanical enginerrs

Muncher
Apr 16, 2008, 06:07 PM
To cite an example, look at Jon Lech Johansen, aka DVD Jon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Lech_Johansen

He was only a clever teen, a dropout at that, when he created the DeCSS DVD decryption engine for which he faced criminal prosecution (he was rightfully acquitted).

Great example. Some of us aren't paid to be programmers because no one wants to pay a 14-16 year old for a job which is considered "hard" for adults. I guarantee you I know more about computers than some Uni students, but they're the ones getting paid, not me. (Interestingly enough I had a half serious job offer a couple months ago to make a web page for a catering company that's run by family friends. I turned it down, web stuff is not really my thing.)

yeroen
Apr 16, 2008, 07:19 PM
And then of course there's Richard Stallman, FSF holy-man and original author of emacs and GCC, arguably the most important piece of software in the world.

He most definitely does not get paid for any software he has produced.

Buschmaster
Apr 16, 2008, 10:15 PM
I'm 20, approaching 21 rather quickly.


I started when I was... man, let's see...

13, I suppose.

aLoC
Apr 16, 2008, 10:43 PM
I started programming when I was 9 and I also didn't see the difficulty. But now, 20 yrs later with a degree and 10 years commercial experience under my belt I realize there is software and there is software.

Writing an enterprise app that can handle thousands of simultaneous users, back by a database terrabytes in size is not the same as writing a desktop app on OS X in Xcode. It's not just a difference in degree but almost in kind. Nearly every aspect changes. And a lot of smart people can spend many months banging their heads together and still not get it right.

So I wouldn't say that a hobbiest is not a "real" programmer, but just a different kind than a hardened commercial developer.

Cromulent
Apr 17, 2008, 02:03 AM
So I wouldn't say that a hobbiest is not a "real" programmer, but just a different kind than a hardened commercial developer.

True but commercial programming is not the be all and end all. What about academic programming? Or research based programming which is not directly commercial (Xerox Parc as an example).

aLoC
Apr 17, 2008, 02:56 AM
True but commercial programming is not the be all and end all. What about academic programming? Or research based programming which is not directly commercial (Xerox Parc as an example).

Yup, I'm not saying commercial development is the be all and end all, just that there are different types of programming. So to those who wonder why they can program their home computer but not get a job, that might be why.

duggram
Apr 17, 2008, 06:47 AM
Hard to believe but I'm 58 now. The first time I did any kind of programming was '72 in the army where we used teletypes to create tapes that were fed into a reader that created punch cards that were fed in to one of those house sized Univacs.

I did have a commercial programming career in the 90's but back then I was deep into the dark side. Just got my first Mac and now I'm looking to do some recreational programming.

Doug

iJohnHenry
Apr 17, 2008, 07:34 AM
68 here.

Started programming/analysis with the conversion from card systems to IBM 360-20. (Career path abrupt turn at age 30.)

Remember wire boards, l-o-n-g sorters, 029 & 129 card punch stations, etc. Used card chad for many devious tricks. ;) And tape ring ring toss. And many other "games".

Programmed in COBOL and RPG, and a few others.

chitin
Apr 17, 2008, 09:52 AM
46 and not a professional programmer (a leisure programmer?).
I started writing some code for a calculator, the HP41C, back in 1982 (I think). I was studying Architecture and the professor that taught Structures (calculation) said we could use any tools we wanted during the exams. Man, how did those HP41C proliferate, I got mine shipped from Hong Kong (to Spain).
After that, a long lapse until 1994 or so when I decided to write a programm to help me with my research on analysing structural properties of cities. C, a Mac (SE30 at the time) and a fair number of years got me a decent prototype. After another longish gap I'm back and starting to get into Xcode, Cocoa, Objective C 2.0 and all this.
What I find most different now is the immediate access to a vast range of resources thanks to the Internet. It's really great.

Flynnstone
Apr 17, 2008, 10:02 AM
46 and not a professional programmer (a leisure programmer?).
I started writing some code for a calculator, the HP41C, back in 1982 (I think). After another longish gap I'm back and starting to get into Xcode, Cocoa, Objective C 2.0 and all this.

How about going full circle, how about a HP41CX calculator for OS X?
I dropped mine a couple years ago, and its a bit hard to read the screen.

jamesapp
Apr 17, 2008, 11:02 AM
i am 32 and have been fooling around with programming for several years.
started out with q-basic on a mac se running ms-dos as an emulator.
i am currently trying to learn objective-c

Sayer
Apr 17, 2008, 06:26 PM
And for the record.... You are NOT a "programmer" [IMHO] until you are being paid on a regular basis, to design, code and implement computer projects. My opinion, no flames required.

Okay so if you do work-for-hire software development (design, code, implement) and thus don't get paid regularly you aren't a programmer?

What if you only design and code and not implement (uhm, okay). Or if you get a spec and code to the spec and thus don't design anything really?

Don't post flame-bait and then say don't flame it. Geeze. Get some Zoloft already - or drink, more.

Oh yeah, I am in the fourth category, for a little while more anyway.

iJohnHenry
Apr 17, 2008, 06:38 PM
Easy Son.

We are getting into semantics here.

The definition may have changed from my day, but the analyst interfaced with the user to design the specs, then passed it over to to the programmer for execution.

FelixMC
Apr 17, 2008, 07:35 PM
15 :p..

Duke Leto
Apr 17, 2008, 10:17 PM
Interesting choice of age bands in the poll - looks like it must have been set up by some kid who thinks over 35 is old.


Hehe thats me. I honestly didnt know what to put as the bands. I was bored and wanted to see, expecting about 5 people to vote. I didn't know how old anyone was, honestly. If you want to put a better poll, be my guest.

Seriously though, sorry about the bad age groups.

Catfish_Man
Apr 18, 2008, 01:05 AM
Easy Son.

We are getting into semantics here.

The definition may have changed from my day, but the analyst interfaced with the user to design the specs, then passed it over to to the programmer for execution.

That actually explains a lot. Like why good UIs are so rare :/

hewcardpacklet
Apr 18, 2008, 02:04 AM
36. But I cannot program long hours like I used to (and had to). I now have my own company (not even tech-related) and I use computers more for fun now ... I kind of miss the diet coke long programming crunches to squash the bugs.

chitin
Apr 18, 2008, 07:12 AM
How about going full circle, how about a HP41CX calculator for OS X?
I dropped mine a couple years ago, and its a bit hard to read the screen.

Hmmmm, not sure. It wouldn't be that much fun as an on-screen gadget, not being able to insert those funny plastic cards where you recorded the programs to share with your mates...
Unless, that is, you had a USB converted card reader... (those that attached to the top of the calculator):rolleyes:

Flynnstone
Apr 18, 2008, 08:27 AM
That actually explains a lot. Like why good UIs are so rare :/

Good UI are rare because too many are designed by programmers.
Programmers don't do a good job because they think like programmers. Users don't think like programmers. A good book to read is "The Humane Interface" by the late Jef Raskin. If you don't know who Jef Raskin is, then you should. Especially if you are a Mac diehard.

Hmmmm, not sure. It wouldn't be that much fun as an on-screen gadget, not being able to insert those funny plastic cards where you recorded the programs to share with your mates...
Unless, that is, you had a USB converted card reader... (those that attached to the top of the calculator):rolleyes:

Mac are great at compositing. It should be straight forward to overlay those funny plastic (virtual) cards.

You got me on the converted USB card reader. I don't follow.

iSee
Apr 18, 2008, 08:35 AM
Hehe thats me. I honestly didnt know what to put as the bands. I was bored and wanted to see, expecting about 5 people to vote. I didn't know how old anyone was, honestly. If you want to put a better poll, be my guest.

Seriously though, sorry about the bad age groups.

Actually, when you look at the distribution of votes across the bands you see a pretty good bell curve shaping up, which implies the band ranges are pretty good. Sure, there could be one more at the top... I'm happy though; I'm not in that last range :)

lazydog
Apr 18, 2008, 08:49 AM
I wonder if there is any correlation to age group and preferred programming language? Perhaps the last category should have been 46++

b e n

iSee
Apr 18, 2008, 12:40 PM
^^^^

That's so bad. So very, very bad. Posting really disgustingly bad puns should be a bannable offence ;)

Catfish_Man
Apr 18, 2008, 02:51 PM
Good UI are rare because too many are designed by programmers.
Programmers don't do a good job because they think like programmers. Users don't think like programmers. A good book to read is "The Humane Interface" by the late Jef Raskin. If you don't know who Jef Raskin is, then you should. Especially if you are a Mac diehard.

I'm well aware of that, being one of the rare people who actually had to think when picking Design/Psych vs CS (I picked CS) for a major. I was mostly just gently mocking iJohnHenry from the point of view of someone working at a company with an emphasis on more recent methodologies.

lazydog
Apr 18, 2008, 02:57 PM
^^^^

That's so bad. So very, very bad. Posting really disgustingly bad puns should be a bannable offence ;)

Yup… it was pretty bad!

b e n

Duke Leto
Apr 18, 2008, 03:49 PM
I didn't mind the pun, but the fact is, C++ is still a good language to start from to this day, not just the people that were there from the beginning.

Cromulent
Apr 18, 2008, 04:09 PM
I didn't mind the pun, but the fact is, C++ is still a good language to start from to this day, not just the people that were there from the beginning.

C/C++ aren't going anywhere for quite a while. They are still the only languages (along with ASM) that are suited for embedded development. C and ASM still rule the roost for that type of programming.

lazydog
Apr 18, 2008, 04:48 PM
I didn't mind the pun, but the fact is, C++ is still a good language to start from to this day, not just the people that were there from the beginning.

Yup, totally agree :) In fact I wish Apple had chosen C++ instead of Objective-C. At the risk of sounding like an old git I'm going to say I really don't like the memory management model of Objective-C with its retain/release reference counting and auto-release pools etc. It's supposed to make memory management easier, but all it does is replace one set of problems with a different set, making it look like a new paradigm, but it isn't really. I much prefer the good old honesty of memory management in C/C++. Yeah, I know v2 has garbage collection. I haven't tried it yet but if it's as good as Java's then… great! Still don't like all the [ [ ] ]'s though, much prefer -> ->.

b e n

lee1210
Apr 18, 2008, 05:01 PM
Yup, totally agree :) In fact I wish Apple had chosen C++ instead of Objective-C. At the risk of sounding like an old git I'm going to say I really don't like the memory management model of Objective-C with its retain/release reference counting and auto-release pools etc. It's supposed to make memory management easier, but all it does is replace one set of problems with a different set, making it look like a new paradigm, but it isn't really. I much prefer the good old honesty of memory management in C/C++. Yeah, I know v2 has garbage collection. I haven't tried it yet but if it's as good as Java's then… great! Still don't like all the [ [ ] ]'s though, much prefer -> ->.

b e n

This is obviously going off-topic, but I just want to say the only reason
-> and .
are unsettling is the "loaded" meanings. When dealing with system level things, there's a lot of structures floating around, and pointers to them. If i see a -> (and this is probably due to years of C exposure) my first thought is that i'm referencing a field from a structure that I have a pointer to. The dot is the same. It would be an abysmal practice, but if you had a number of function pointers in structures, you would never have any idea what's going on w/ z->x().

I know you should have a pretty good idea of what sort of thing you are dealing with (struct, struct pointer, object), but... dagnabit why couldn't stroustrup have picked different operators. & doesn't bother me as much but... reference AND bitwise and... blargh.

-Lee

lazydog
Apr 18, 2008, 05:21 PM
... dagnabit why couldn't stroustrup have picked different operators. & doesn't bother me as much but... reference AND bitwise and... blargh.

-Lee

I guess in the 70s they were stuck with ASCII… hang on, we're still stuck in ASCII… I wonder if we'll still be stuck in ASCII in another 30 years time? I guess it won't bother me at 76! :)

b e n

MiBerb
Apr 18, 2008, 06:10 PM
Although I made my first developments with Fortran and Watfive S in the late seventies, for many years now I'm on the users side. But still fun on both sides.

don't do it
Apr 18, 2008, 08:10 PM
14 here.

14 as well

NeXTLoop
Apr 19, 2008, 12:23 PM
29... closing in on 30.

sushi
Apr 23, 2008, 12:20 AM
Sure didn't expect to see punch cards here!
:D

Remember how you could delete or insert characters when you "duped" the card, if you held the card down so it didn't move while you duped it?

How about the guy who dropped his card deck with the source to a program, and then had to put all of the cards back in order. :eek:
Ah, the memories. :)

I was working for IBM at the time, fixing hardware, and while at customer accounts, I would get on the keypunch machine and type out love notes to my girlfriend.
That's awesome. Congrats on the 20 years!

Remember the little bucket under the keypunch that caught all of the card that was punched out of holes? Boy did that make a mess if someone "accidently" dumped it out...
Yes it did. :eek:

While we are on the subject of nostalgia, anyone else ever play "ring-toss" with the write-rings from 9 Track tapes? I still have a drawer full of those too. :D
Yep. Did you ever take an old tape and roll it out a bit and then dust it with white magnetic powder so you could see the actual bits? Way cool.

I managed to avoid the punch cards.
I first learned to program on a Commodore-64. Ah ... BASIC.
The Commodore 64 was a nice computer. And a big step up from the VIC20 if memory serves.

Hard to believe but I'm 58 now. The first time I did any kind of programming was '72 in the army where we used teletypes to create tapes that were fed into a reader that created punch cards that were fed in to one of those house sized Univacs.
The Uniquack. Neat mainframe.

Wasn't the word length on it something like 69 bits (8 bytes plus 5 Hamming bits).

68 here. <snip>
Senpai! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senpai) Bows deeply.

I started writing some code for a calculator, the HP41C, back in 1982 (I think).
That was a nice calculator. Did some development for a buddy with it. He needed to use the Sire equation for speaker design. Audiophile type fellow.

Good UI are rare because too many are designed by programmers.
So true.

Reminds me of the F-16 flight controls when it first came out. They didn't move, only pressure sensitive. The engineers and programmers thought that this setup would result in better control inputs. The test pilots after trying it out, sent them back the drawing boards to redesign the flight control system so it would give feedback.

Programmers don't do a good job because they think like programmers. Users don't think like programmers. A good book to read is "The Humane Interface" by the late Jef Raskin.
Good book.

Worked with a variety of languages over the years. One of the more interesting ones was Ada. As you can see from the attached picture, our reference manual was in the proposed state and not finalized.

chitin
Apr 23, 2008, 03:20 PM
You got me on the converted USB card reader. I don't follow.

It was a bad joke... The HP41C had, as an accessory, a card reader that you attached to the top of the calculator. You could then record any programs you had developed for your calculator, that were in the internal memory, onto little plastic (magnetic) cards that you inserted into the card reader. After that you could attach the card reader to a friend's calculator and record the program in question so that he/she could use it in the exam.

Since in a Mac simulator you wouldn't have a physical HP41C to attach to, maybe if you had a card reader with a USB cable you could recreate all the fun of recording a few bytes onto little plastic cards... (terrible, isn't it)

By the way, I agree with Sushi, the HP41C was a great calculator.

krye
Apr 24, 2008, 09:09 AM
41
my brother wrote computer software in our basement on TRS-80s
when i went to work at age 19
our disk drives weighed 20lbs each
and megabytes wasnt in our vocabulary!
lol
i can still rock with the best though!

Ah, I used to love the TRS-80. It sat next to my Mac Plus, my Commodore-64 and my TI99-4A. Those were the days.

Oh, and I'm 32.

DaveTaylor
Apr 24, 2008, 09:27 AM
16, but learning so not a "programmer" I am a "pre-programmer" so to speak :P

sushi
Apr 24, 2008, 09:33 AM
Ah, I used to love the TRS-80. It sat next to my Mac Plus, my Commodore-64 and my TI99-4A. Those were the days.
The Trash 80 was a fun computer to work on. It's been a while, but I remember enjoying using it.

One of the funniest computer names that I worked on, was the Krapple II. This was the nickname given to the Korean made Apple IIs. These were black market items, and were selling like hotcakes during the day due to them being about half price or less than a real Apple II. It was very hard to tell the difference on a good version, between a real Apple II and a Krapple II.

Streamer
Apr 24, 2008, 09:38 AM
Sinclair ZX80 and ZX81. Ah the wobbly 16k RAM pack, spend all night entering code, and then a little wobble, and poof.

Helped me discover pubs :D

GuntherS
Apr 24, 2008, 09:39 AM
Approaching 21 :)

sushi
Apr 25, 2008, 01:46 AM
Approaching 21 :)
Many years left to have fun programming! :D

krye
Apr 25, 2008, 08:21 AM
So why is that that 50% of developers are 19-25? Why such a large drop off after 25? Is it because you all get out of school, work for the man a few years and then realize that there's really no money in development and then go out and get another job?

aross99
Apr 25, 2008, 09:51 AM
So why is that that 50% of developers are 19-25? Why such a large drop off after 25? Is it because you all get out of school, work for the man a few years and then realize that there's really no money in development and then go out and get another job?

Don't forget that what you are seeing is the subset of Programmers who read the MacRumors Forums...

While I am one of the few in the 46+ group, I have a feeling that the average age of MacRumors Forum posters is much younger overall...probably in that 19-25 age group...

lee1210
Apr 25, 2008, 10:35 AM
Don't forget that what you are seeing is the subset of Programmers who read the MacRumors Forums...

While I am one of the few in the 46+ group, I have a feeling that the average age of MacRumors Forum posters is much younger overall...probably in that 19-25 age group...

I'm in (though quickly exiting) the 19-25 group, but I certainly have no intention of getting out of programming anytime soon. I definitely think that this is just bias in the pool that took the survey. I'm one of the youngest developers at my company. The top of the curve would probably be mid-thirties here.

I would actually say that a lot of people may, between 35-45 move out of programming professionally into technical managerial positions. I doubt they stop coding in their spare time (if they liked coding in the first place). This is just an observation based on personal experience, though, many may continue coding until retirement elsewhere. I know there are some people that will not enter management, and want to keep coding, so it wouldn't surprise me.

-Lee

-::ubermann::-
Apr 27, 2008, 10:21 AM
21 here
started with c, learned some obj c and cocoa, then java in university

mac666er
Apr 29, 2008, 07:01 PM
I am 30 now and work mostly with Mathematica, SAS and MatLab. I work in Finance, but I have also used C/C++ and do use Objective-C for "hobbying".

While I am not a computer science grad or engineer I have been around computers since looong before I can remember... ok, I do remember that my first exposure was to an Atari 2600 (video game system :-P) at home, and then my school when I was in first or second grade bought Apple IIs. Imagine my glee when one of the professors opened the case! I had seen integrated circuits before in my Atari cartridges but never so many on a single board!

And I would spend long hours playing karateka and trying to beat the eagle! Sadly I never made it to the princess...

But after a while one of our professors told us to try "logo" instead, and that was really the first time that I did some programming. It is incredible what a little encouragement from an adult can do. I learned how to give instructions in a logical and ordered fashion. It seemed all pretty natural to me. And the "turtle" was a nice concept anyway :-P

After this I was fortunate enough that my parents bought me an MS-DOS Acer Pee Cee, and even though graphics sucked it was fun to fool around with mostly BASIC. I was kind of upset by the limited capabilities of Basic and wanted to learn C but I couldn't afford any compilers :-( oh well... I guess things do come to those who wait!

So now, I do try to keep up to date with Objective-C and it is fun to see all the latest developments! and I could finally afford one of those 8-core mac pros! It is incredible to me that the mac pro has 8 more processors that run at 3Ghz as opposed to the 4Mhz or so of my original PC. And don't get me started on hard disks and memory! My original PC had 512Kb of RAM and NO Hard disks, just two double sided diskette drives... oh man! Well, at least the kid inside me is happy as hell!

My hat is off to all those that used punch cards! There is no school like old school!

M.

italiano40
Apr 29, 2008, 07:04 PM
put me down as 18 years old

theLimit
Apr 29, 2008, 07:50 PM
32 here. Started programming on my cousin's Commodore 64 when I would go for a visit. I had a friend with a TRS-80, but he moved so I never got to try programming on it.

I didn't have a computer of my own until after high school. In HS I used to program my TI-85 for my math classes. I even managed to teach it to play chess.

After HS I managed to get an old 286 and fumbled my way through MS-DOS. When I started college for a Computer Science degree, my mom decided to buy a newfangled Windows 95 PC.

I never did get a degree involving programming. I only do it as a hobby now. I love C/C++, learned some Java and Python, fun stuff.

My mom is 62 and was a programmer in the 70s. She liked to talk about punch cards and COBOL and FORTRAN. After not touching a computer for over 20 years, she was confounded and then astounded by a GUI and mouse. I should buy her an iMac.

Am3822
Jun 30, 2008, 08:43 AM
34 here. Did a bit of playing around with commodore 64 (basic) and ms-dos (turbo pascal), but no serious programming. Most of the proper stuff I've coded is numerical analysis in matlab, but now I've finally joined the grown-ups and started writing my code in fortran 90.

fleshman03
Jul 1, 2008, 02:37 AM
Cool! :)

I started with punch cards. Still have a couple that I made over 30 years ago like this one.

I think I read about those in my Information Science textbook. :D

Soulstorm
Jul 1, 2008, 07:39 AM
22 years old here. Started with Applescript, 8 years ago...