Apple Releases Safari 3.1.1, Addresses PWN2OWN Vulnerability

[bcomer]

Apple has released Safari 3.1.1 for download.

[Sky Blue]

Nice. Safari 3.1 was a bit weird for me.

[Tallest Skil]

Ooh! Let me guess what it fixes! Um... "general compatibility and security issues"

Edit: Well, actually, I forgot stability!

[BoyBach]

According to Software Update:

This update is recommended for all Safari users and includes improvements to stability, compatibility and security.

For detailed information on the security content of this update, please visit this site: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1222



EDIT: p.s. It also requires a restart.

[MacMan33]

hope this makes a difference, it has been crazing on me for awhile now...:rolleyes:

[hodgjy]

Does anyone know if this is based on a newer version of Webkit?

[sblasl]

CVE-ID: CVE-2008-1024
Available for: Windows XP or Vista
Impact: Visiting a maliciously crafted website may lead to an unexpected application termination or arbitrary code execution
Description: A memory corruption issue exists in Safari's file downloading. By enticing a user to download a file with a maliciously crafted name, an attacker may cause an unexpected application termination or arbitrary code execution. This update addresses the issue through improved handling of file downloads. This issue does not affect Mac OS X systems.


WebKit
CVE-ID: CVE-2008-1025
Available for: Mac OS X v10.4.11, Mac OS X Server v10.4.11, Mac OS X v10.5.2, Mac OS X Server v10.5.2, Windows XP or Vista
Impact: Visiting a malicious website may result in cross-site scripting
Description: An issue exists in WebKi's handling of URLs containing a colon character in the host name. Opening a maliciously crafted URL may lead to a cross-site scripting attack. This update addresses the issue through improved handling of URLs. Credit to Robert Swiecki of Google Information Security Team and David Bloom for reporting this issue.


WebKit
CVE-ID: CVE-2008-1026
Available for: Mac OS X v10.4.11, Mac OS X Server v10.4.11, Mac OS X v10.5.2, Mac OS X Server v10.5.2, Windows XP or Vista
Impact: Viewing a maliciously crafted web page may lead to an unexpected application termination or arbitrary code execution
Description: A heap buffer overflow exists in WebKit's handling of JavaScript regular expressions. The issue may be triggered via JavaScript when processing regular expressions with large, nested repetition counts. This may lead to an unexpected application termination or arbitrary code execution. This update addresses the issue by performing additional validation of JavaScript regular expressions. Credit to Charlie Miller for reporting these issues.

Important: Information about products not manufactured by Apple is provided for information purposes only and does not constitute Apple's recommendation or endorsement. Please contact the vendor for additional information."

[-Alan-]

I was hoping Safari's Reset would be fixed. The reset doesn't work reliably. You have to change an option each time for it to work.

[jas8522]

Notice the last one there - a bug in WebKit that could allow arbitrary code execution (reported by Charlie Miller)? Arbitrary code execution... sounds like what happened recently when a MacBook Air was hacked at a security conference by ... oh wait, it was Charlie Miller!

http://venturebeat.com/2008/03/28/charlie-miller-making-his-name-in-mac-hacking/

Seems like the WebKit team has patched the vulnerability.

[Morod]

Did someone say "snappier"? :D
I downloaded it, not sure that I see a difference yet.
Morod

[dejo]

I wonder how Gmail and MacRumors handle 3.1.1 now that's it's officially released. I had it as part of the last 10.5.3 seed and both sites considered it an unsupported browser.

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple has released Safari 3.1.1 for Mac and Windows (http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/safari311.html), now available via its website and Software Update.

This update is recommended for all Safari users and includes improvements to stability, compatibility and security.

Most significantly, Apple notes that 4 security issues (http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1467) have been patched in the release, one of which was recently used to successfully attack a MacBook Air (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/03/31/mac-security-in-spotlight/) in the CanSecWest PWN2OWN contest.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/04/16/apple-releases-safari-3-1-1-addresses-pwn2own-vulnerability/)

[-Alan-]

I was hoping Safari's Reset would be fixed. The reset doesn't work reliably. You have to change an option each time for it to work.

(I made this same post to the other thread)

[aliquis-]

So when will they fix the memory leaks and the occasional bla bla do you really want to close x number of tabs when it for whatever reason belive I want to close a window and not a tab with command-w?

Safari use like 1GB ram within a day and I hate when I just press enter and boom, gone.

A good undo such as the one in Opera would be nice to.

Or one can just use Opera ...

Would be sweet if they could make it so plugins work with different versions aswell, I can't run pithelmet with 3.1.

Would be nice if one could always quit it without using force quit every now and then aswell.

Safari is a piece of junk.

[Toe]

This update seems to be nothing but security (i.e., no feature changes). The detail page (http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/safari311.html) does not say anything at all, besides linking to the security page, which then links to the security detail ( ttp://support.apple.com/kb/HT1467).

[ShiggyMiyamoto]

Haha.. pwn2own... Wow. My MacBook is in the shop right now, but once I get it back I'll do this update...

[Kiddo86]

Use WebKit too!

http://nightly.webkit.org/start/trunk/31916

[hodgjy]

This, to me, means that the final version of 10.5.3 is not due out for a while--otherwise Apple wouldn't have released Safari 3.1.1 as a separate, high priority update.

I wonder how Gmail and MacRumors handle 3.1.1 now that's it's officially released. I had it as part of the last 10.5.3 seed and both sites considered it an unsupported browser.

[firstapple]

This update seems to be nothing but security (i.e., no feature changes). The detail page (http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/safari311.html) does not say anything at all, besides linking to the security page, which then links to the security detail ( ttp://support.apple.com/kb/HT1467).

I wouldn't expect any features in a 3.1.x update. Simply security fixes. Can't complain too much about that right?

An added note though... 39 MB's??? Geez, must be quite the security fixes

[BlakTornado]

But the real question is: Are large RSS feeds going to keep making it hang?

Oh and does it still leak memory?

[Clive At Five]

Great, now I have to uncheck the intrusive Safari "INSTALL ME" box for the next three weeks before I decide, "screw it" and install the new version, even though I don't want it, but I'll do it so it will stop hassling me.

[BRLawyer]

Notice the last one there - a bug in WebKit that could allow arbitrary code execution (reported by Charlie Miller)? Arbitrary code execution... sounds like what happened recently when a MacBook Air was hacked at a security conference by ... oh wait, it was Charlie Miller!

http://venturebeat.com/2008/03/28/charlie-miller-making-his-name-in-mac-hacking/

Seems like the WebKit team has patched the vulnerability.

I wonder if the habitual whiners in this forum are still gonna complain about Apple's "tardy reaction" to security issues...Apple not only promptly listens to its customers when it comes to OS criticism (such as Stacks), but also addresses in due course the relevant issues that are identified...

GO APPLE!

[bob-innox]

What's with all the "Requires a restart" nonsense?

Is this to make it compatible with Windows?

[Pippen Man]

I've downloaded it, but the only problem I've ever had with Safari (on on a Vista computer) is that I couldn't download anything from websites. The download window would never work, and the files would never open.

Any suggestions?

P.S. No Windows Vista bashing, or I'll have your heads. :)

[TheSpecialist]

Apple Software Update is now version 2.1 for Windows:D!

[thejadedmonkey]

Why is the Safari update like 2.5 times larger then all of Firefox is? That's just aggravating...

[lsyx]

Great, now I have to uncheck the intrusive Safari "INSTALL ME" box for the next three weeks before I decide, "screw it" and install the new version, even though I don't want it, but I'll do it so it will stop hassling me.

I hate to rob you of your righteous fury, but you could just select "Ignore Update..." from the Update menu...

[i.maverick]

okay.. good work people.. nwo please make it not hang...
I'm tired of using command-option-escape.
good work on the charlie miller thing though. so it could execute code. so maybe it actually was a big enough vulnerability.
good job.
:)

[themoonisdown09]

I was hoping Safari's Reset would be fixed. The reset doesn't work reliably. You have to change an option each time for it to work.

I've never had this problem. I reset Safari about once a week and it works perfectly every time.

[HLdan]

I was hoping Safari's Reset would be fixed. The reset doesn't work reliably. You have to change an option each time for it to work.

(I made this same post to the other thread)

What do you mean by "change an option" for the reset to work?

[i.maverick]

What's with all the "Requires a restart" nonsense?

Is this to make it compatible with Windows?

m sick of it too. i show off by saying i do not have to shut down and restart my mac. i only do it when I'm bored.lol.
and i don't think making it compatible with windows is the issue. that's a totally different piece of junk
:D

okay.. good work people.. nwo please make it not hang...
I'm tired of using command-option-escape.
good work on the charlie miller thing though. so it could execute code. so maybe it actually was a big enough vulnerability.
good job.
:)

lol.. i sound like their team leader.
:D

[shamino]

Does anyone know if this is based on a newer version of Webkit?
Doubtful. It's only a x.x.1 revision. The Acid-3 test (http://acid3.acidtests.org/) still reports 75/100. It's my understanding that the internal WebKit builds now pass all 100 tests.
But the real question is: Are large RSS feeds going to keep making it hang?
I don't know about hanging but Ars Technica's feed (feed://feeds.arstechnica.com/arstechnica/BAaf) makes Safari unresponsive for a short period of time. Something about 333 articles, each one with an advertising image or two.
Great, now I have to uncheck the intrusive Safari "INSTALL ME" box for the next three weeks before I decide, "screw it" and install the new version, even though I don't want it, but I'll do it so it will stop hassling me.
You could go to the menu and tell Software Updates to hide Safari. It won't show up anymore, until you explicitly decide to show it again.

Assuming you really don't want those security patches, of course.
What's with all the "Requires a restart" nonsense?
WebKit is used by things that run in the background (like Dashboard). But you're right, a reboot shouldn't strictly be necessary. Quitting and restarting WebKit-using apps should be enough. At worst, a change like this should mandate a log-out, not a full reboot.

Linux has spoiled me. On my Linux boxes, I can upgrade all but the kernel without a reboot. I can even swap hardware device drivers, as long as they are not controlling a critical resource (like the hard drive with the root file system.)

[HLdan]

P.S. No Windows Vista bashing, or I'll have your heads. :)



P.S. don't open yourself up to it. :D

[ro2nie]

Saft fails to load...

[TheSpecialist]

Ars Technica's feed (feed://feeds.arstechnica.com/arstechnica/BAaf) makes Safari unresponsive for a short period of time. Something about 333 articles, each one with an advertising image or two.

Honestly, this doesn't hang with me. I'm on Windows XP. Is it hanging on Mac? That would be ridiculous.

[hagjohn]

I hate to rob you of your righteous fury, but you could just select "Ignore Update..." from the Update menu...

And then it tells you that you have software on ignore. Reset ignore updates?

[MIDI_EVIL]

This, to me, means that the final version of 10.5.3 is not due out for a while--otherwise Apple wouldn't have released Safari 3.1.1 as a separate, high priority update.

Not everyone is running Leopard!

[BongoBanger]

Hey! It still has the 'Try to trick Windows users into installing software they don't want' bug!

[jjbae0420]

Does anyone have a booting problem after updating 3.1.1?

[Rocketman]

So does this incidentally make Firefox safer too?

Rocketman

[johnmcboston]

Why is the Safari update like 2.5 times larger then all of Firefox is? That's just aggravating...

I'm just curious why I have to reboot a Mac after upgrading a web browser...

[TheSpecialist]

Because Dashboard uses Webkit, so that also needs to restart. It's stupid though that Apple doesn't just restart Dashboard and be done with it. But this is imo a more safer way and to ensure nothing goes wrong if you don't restart. Who cares anyway, is a restart so life threatening? It takes me less then 30 sec. Boohoo:confused:

I'm just curious why I have to reboot a Mac after upgrading a web browser...

[izzle22]

Anyone with hanging issues and if you're using RoadRunner, try OpenDNS.com.
It worked for me. The numbers time warner and road runner use don't work well.

[johnmcboston]

Who cares anyway, is a restart so life threatening? It takes me less then 30 sec. Boohoo:confused:

Well, yah it's a bother. I have a dozen things open and doing lots of different edits. To save everything, close everything, and then re-open everything after restart is a huge pain. Easier to close software update and upgrade another day.

hey, If I wanted to restart all the time, I'd buy a PC. ;-)

[Pippen Man]

Because Dashboard uses Webkit, so that also needs to restart. It's stupid though that Apple doesn't just restart Dashboard and be done with it. But this is imo a more safer way and to ensure nothing goes wrong if you don't restart. Who cares anyway, is a restart so life threatening? It takes me less then 30 sec. Boohoo:confused:

Well, my friend, your Dashboard theory is not-so-true. I'm on a Windows Vista computer (I'll have your heads if you bash! :)) and it asks me to restart my computer or my computer will blow up into a radioactive landmine.:cool:

[TheSpecialist]

What has the mankind come to... I don't want to bash Mac, but the software update is 23MB on Windows, 39MB on a Mac. A few other updates require restart on Mac, on PC doesn't. I find it strange too. But your argument about PC's is not relevant;)

Well, yah it's a bother. I have a dozen things open and doing lots of different edits. To save everything, close everything, and then re-open everything after restart is a huge pain. Easier to close software update and upgrade another day.

hey, If I wanted to restart all the time, I'd buy a PC. ;-)

Windows has probably another silly reason to restart haha.
Well, my friend, your Dashboard theory is not-so-true. I'm on a Windows Vista computer (I'll have your heads if you bash! :)) and it asks me to restart my computer or my computer will blow up into a radioactive landmine.:cool:

[hodgjy]

Oh ya! I guess I slightly overlooked that point.

Not everyone is running Leopard!

[daneoni]

What has the mankind come to... I don't want to bash Mac, but the software update is 23MB on Windows, 39MB on a Mac.

Its 25.7MB on my SU

[k2spitfire88]

What's with all the "Requires a restart" nonsense?

Is this to make it compatible with Windows?

No, that's a separate download/program altogether. It's only 22.5 megs on windows. But I still have to restart.

[jbernie]

I wonder if the habitual whiners in this forum are still gonna complain about Apple's "tardy reaction" to security issues...Apple not only promptly listens to its customers when it comes to OS criticism (such as Stacks), but also addresses in due course the relevant issues that are identified...

GO APPLE!

No this time we complain and say the only reason the pwn2own issue was fixed because it got so much publicity so they had to fix it fast to look like they are responding to customers needs when clearly if you look at the memory leak issues listed just on the first page of the thread there are more important things to fix that would make end users much happier.

[Stridder44]

Why is the Safari update like 2.5 times larger then all of Firefox is? That's just aggravating...

I don't get this either. Everything Apple has for you to download (i.e., iTunes, Safari, etc.) is all HUGE. 53 MB for a music player? Yikes. And this is true for both Windows and Mac.

[coolfactor]

No this time we complain and say the only reason the pwn2own issue was fixed because it got so much publicity so they had to fix it fast to look like they are responding to customers needs when clearly if you look at the memory leak issues listed just on the first page of the thread there are more important things to fix that would make end users much happier.

Time for some education for you. If you really knew what you were talking about, you would've avoided saying what you just said. WebKit is an open-source project and memory leaks are definitely not being ignored by the developers. It's not something as simple as you make it out to be.

For some enlightenment, keep an eye on this page (http://trac.webkit.org/projects/webkit).

Tons of things fixed 7 days a week. Software can be complex.

[bankshot]

Because Dashboard uses Webkit, so that also needs to restart. It's stupid though that Apple doesn't just restart Dashboard and be done with it.

There are dozens of other applications that use WebKit - other Apple apps plus many third-party apps. Trying to identify and restart only those applications while leaving others running is likely more hassle than it's worth.

[Cormac]

The new Safari crashed the first two times that I opened it after the restart.

[twoodcc]

well i'm glad to see Apple fixing the issue

[QuarterSwede]

Would be sweet if they could make it so plugins work with different versions aswell, I can't run pithelmet with 3.1.
I can and am right now.

But, I won't upgrade until I can run Saft w/3.1.1. I can't afford to lose the undo option.

[sblasl]

Whining about restarting a computer is so OS 10.1...

Get over the need to restart, it is gonna have to happen sooner or later.

[-Alan-]

I've never had this problem. I reset Safari about once a week and it works perfectly every time.
For me, it doesn't work consistently. If I reset and then close Safari then restart Safari, all the cookies will still be there. I will still be logged in to sites I visit. If I reset, then reset again, but with an option changed--for instance, deselect "Close all Safari windows"--the reset will work. Go figure.

What do you mean by "change an option" for the reset to work?

[TheSpecialist]

There are dozens of other applications that use WebKit - other Apple apps plus many third-party apps. Trying to identify and restart only those applications while leaving others running is likely more hassle than it's worth.

Thank you for better explaining!

[psychofreak]

I don't get this either. Everything Apple has for you to download (i.e., iTunes, Safari, etc.) is all HUGE. 53 MB for a music player? Yikes. And this is true for both Windows and Mac.

Not to mention that Safari is not XSlimmable, it hopefully won't be too long until the installer can manage to figure out if you're on Intel or PPC and install accordingly.

[yusufg110]

Smugmug CEO Don McAskill reported a serious caching bug with Safari

Not sure if 3.1.1 fixes it or this will require 10.5.3 also

http://blogs.smugmug.com/don/2008/04/04/nasty-bug-safari-doesnt-cache-stuff/

[coffey7]

I though Bill gates was behind the entire plot to make Apple look bad. so it was not just made up, there really was a hole in Safari.

[cmcbridejr]

Does anyone have a booting problem after updating 3.1.1?

yeah, i had to manually reset by holding down the power button

[Shagrat]

Does anyone have a booting problem after updating 3.1.1?

Er...no, actually.

[clevin]

I don't get this either. Everything Apple has for you to download (i.e., iTunes, Safari, etc.) is all HUGE. 53 MB for a music player? Yikes. And this is true for both Windows and Mac.

possibility includes

1. apple doesn't know how to do partial upgrade

2. nobody care so no pressure on apple

My bet is #2, and that needs to change.:) some ppl are way too forgiving to apple's shortcomings



Not sure if 3.1.1 fixes it or this will require 10.5.3 also

http://blogs.smugmug.com/don/2008/04/04/nasty-bug-safari-doesnt-cache-stuff/
I doubt it, Im not even sure its a priority bug.. sometimes can be indeed annoying tho.

[Kar98]

Ooh! Let me guess what it fixes! Um... "general compatibility and security issues"

Edit: Well, actually, I forgot stability!

It's uncanny!

http://i31.tinypic.com/2zguolw.jpg

[clevin]

ars said
As it turns out, Apple fixed this issue in the Safari 3.0.2 beta, but accidentally reintroduced it with Safari 3.1.
lol, what......

It's uncanny!

http://i31.tinypic.com/2zguolw.jpg

whats the explanation for the size difference?

[Xtremehkr]

Yahoo Mail is still glitchy and slow to open, though it's nice that Safari works with the new Beta format.

Opening multiple windows still takes far longer than it used to, though that came with Leopard, I think that has more to do with the iMac getting older.

Aside from that everything works smoothly, there are no noticeable changes post installation.

Safari has been improving with every new version, I prefer it to FF, Safari delivers a better overall user experience. I don't think it will be too much longer before Safari is the web browser to beat.

[chagla]

What's with all the "Requires a restart" nonsense?

Is this to make it compatible with Windows?
i'm confused here as a new comer. so this fanboy was saying to me his power mac was left on for over a year (literally), never shut down, never restarted.

and now you're saying updating requires a restart on mac? you know i really hate restarting windoooze after all the important security updates. for me its more important to keep the system "on" no matter what, i couldn't care less about the security patches. who needs them. maybe the windows folks.

that's why i use mac now.

[Kilamite]

Installed and restarted with no problems.

It makes me happy to know Apple are paying attention, and the fact they gave credit to those who found the security vulnerabilities.

I don't complain about a restart - big deal. Takes 30 seconds. I'm just glad that Apple patched the issue within a few weeks.

[Virgil-TB2]

So when will they fix ... the occasional bla bla do you really want to close x number of tabs ...

see attached picture, deselect the third option. ;)

Safari is a piece of junk.I think you are dealing more with a series of user errors, than you are a problem with Safari.

[clevin]

i'm confused here as a new comer. so this fanboy was saying to me his power mac was left on for over a year (literally), never shut down, never restarted.

and now you're saying updating requires a restart on mac? .

its really depends on what u do. i opened word, excel, firefox, virtualdesktop . let it sleep on the way between office and home. Tiger getting very slow in a day, reboot is needed.

[notjustjay]

and now you're saying updating requires a restart on mac? you know i really hate restarting windoooze after all the important security updates. for me its more important to keep the system "on" no matter what, i couldn't care less about the security patches. who needs them. maybe the windows folks.

that's why i use mac now.

SOME updates require restarts. I think there will always be situations where this is necessary, though they should be rare.

And it wasn't always this day. I remember in the good ol' days, when I was happily using my DOS PC with Windows 3.1, my friend had a PowerMac running OS 8. It had Conflict Catcher and some kind of extension manager running, and every time we wanted to do something different he'd say "just a second" as he'd load a new profile of extensions and reboot. And when something went wrong he'd keep tweaking the number and order of extensions that loaded and reboot again. All the while insisting his Mac was superior to my PC. :D

Good times.

[mkrishnan]

i'm confused here as a new comer. so this fanboy was saying to me his power mac was left on for over a year (literally), never shut down, never restarted.

Anyone who's not rebooting *any* operating system in a year or more is not applying all of the updates. End of story. Neither Windows, OS X, or any of the actively developed Linux distributions go a whole year, AFAIK, only providing updates that do not require reboot.

I reboot my iMac once every 3-4 weeks and just apply all the available updates at that time. My Eee running Ubuntu I reboot daily purely because of the way it drains the battery when sleeping, so it's a non-issue. But even in Linux, the kernel changes on at least a yearly basis, so you can't stay updated and have an uptime of one or two or three years...

On the other hand, with servers or other specialized uses, udpates may not always be necessary or valuable.

[mckyvlle]

yeah, i had to manually reset by holding down the power button

Same here! Then again, I haven't restarted my Mac for nearly two weeks... probably had loads of crud clogging up the memory.

[mikey.f]

I wish I didn't have to restart my computer in order to update my browser. That's so... windows :rolleyes:

[clevin]

I wish I didn't have to restart my computer in order to update my browser. That's so... windows :rolleyes:

i don't think many windows app installations ask for reboot nowadays neither...

[poe diddley]

here's what i don't get.
why would ANYONE rate this article a negative?
there were 71 positives and 22 negatives?
how could a software patch be a negative thing when it addresses security issues, or for that matter for any reason?
i think there are just some apple haters out there that get a kick out of rating every article a negative.
if anyone rated it a negative what was your reason?

[G58]

The problem is, if you threaten people, you're less likely to get any help.

And being a Mac user who has banned all Windows machines from the company and swapped the PCs over to Ubuntu, I can't actually help you - other than to say that Safari was fine in the early days, began using masses of memory and CPU capacity and recently has been somewhat less stable that we're used to with Mac apps.

If you really want to give it issues, open some thirty pages, each with more than ten Tabs! Do this with a dozen other apps running. Then open Google Earth. I experienced my first Mac crash in six years by doing this!

I'm not sure how downloads work in with Safari on a PC running Vista. But on a Mac, on the right of each download in the Download window, there's a magnifying glass. Clicking that opens up the window where the download has downloaded to.

You can set the download destination in Preferences, but I think the default is to the Desktop. My guess is that your downloads are there somewhere, and in common with many files in Windows, they're just hiding!

Do let us know how you get on.


I've downloaded it, but the only problem I've ever had with Safari (on on a Vista computer) is that I couldn't download anything from websites. The download window would never work, and the files would never open.

Any suggestions?

P.S. No Windows Vista bashing, or I'll have your heads. :)

[southerndoc]

I downloaded the Safari update tonight. For some reason, Safari not becomes unresponsive anytime I try to view a PDF document through Adobe Acrobat's Safari plugin.

Anyone else experiencing this problem? I haven't installed 3.1.1 on my MacBook yet to see if it also has the problem. Right now I'm only experiencing it on my iMac G5.

[VoodooDaddy]

Until Safari quits taking up 400-500mb of ram after being open only a few hours I wont use it. The mem leak needs to go away. FF can be open for days on end and I never see it over 200mb.

[MartiNZ]

Not everyone is running Leopard!

Indeed thank goodness this can be used as another reason. I would hate to have to wait much longer for 10.5.3!

Safari is one thing that has worked flawlessly for me though :).

[smccostlin]

I have a first gen Macbook Pro, 2 ghz, 2mb ram, and 10.5.2.... AFTER updating to Safari 3.1.1 I have experienced hella lag and have had to restart my computer 4 TIMES! I am so furious!!!

I can use firefox and my mac works just fine, but the minute I open up safari my computer freezes and does not respond!

I even experience problems when I restart my computer... When I try to type in my passcode in the user entry box when the computer first starts up the rainbow beach ball comes up and stays for three minutes!

I have made an appointment with the apple store in valley faire and I am going to raise hell...

Sean

[poe diddley]

i don't know how all of you are getting crashes and all these bad experiences.
all of the replies i read that had a crash or whatever was using a mac pro, macbook pro, or what have you.

here's what i've got
PowerMac g4 350 (1999) upgraded to 1ghz with OWC upgrade processor
1gb of ram
ati radeon 9000 pro 128mb
OSX 10.4.11

and it's working just fine for me.
now maybe i'm wrong, but is it possible that you have some goofy stuff installed on your computers that could be causing problems or conflicts?

i'm just saying-if my computer is almost 9 years old and it runs great for me then why on earth would any of you have problems?

[G58]

Have you repaired permissions, fsck -fy etc?

I'm running it on a 1.83 MHz MB P with 2MB RAM and it's slow but useable. I've also got 33 pages open all with up to 10 Tabs in!

G


I have a first gen Macbook Pro, 2 ghz, 2mb ram, and 10.5.2.... AFTER updating to Safari 3.1.1 I have experienced hella lag and have had to restart my computer 4 TIMES! I am so furious!!!

I can use firefox and my mac works just fine, but the minute I open up safari my computer freezes and does not respond!

I even experience problems when I restart my computer... When I try to type in my passcode in the user entry box when the computer first starts up the rainbow beach ball comes up and stays for three minutes!

I have made an appointment with the apple store in valley faire and I am going to raise hell...

Sean

[andy721]

I didn't notice a difference, I guess if you have the new 8 core mac pros and a 8800gt video card your set :D

[iFizz]

1) If you have a lot of plug-ins and 3rd-party apps, then wait until the 3rd-party developers update your plug-ins and apps before you apply Safari's update. These guys usually push out updates to their products within a few days of an Apple update. You'd think most of you would have figured this out by now considering how long most of you claim to have been using OSX.

2) Unless you are using dial-up, quit whining about the size the Apple updates are. You torrenters are too impatient if you can't stand a 20-second download from Apple. Lay off the Red Bull and Monster! :D Apple decides not to do incremental updates because a clean install is more reliable.

3) Finally, unless you are a software engineer and know what you are talking about, stop whining about restarting your Mac when you have to apply Apple software updates. Apple has a reason for this "inconvenience." I'm quite certain their engineers know more about how OSX works than 99% of the users here (mostly teenagers).

No wonder the PC folks call us snobs! Whining like this is like a 1st-class airline passenger whining about not getting the wine glass refilled fast enough. Yes, you pay more for a better service/product, but you're not the Queen of England. Cut back on the caffeine and try chanting "goose-frahbah." {/rant} :D

[fastbite]

Love Safari but I also suffer the hanging issue. Very frustrating!

[BillyBobBongo]

Sad are the days when my Windows XP machine can update and restart faster than my MacBook! :(

[CmonRichard]

I updated, clicked restart then got an error message with the download. Now my MBP hangs on the restart & switches itself off after about 4 minutes of waiting to start. Can anyone help me bypass this to uninstall the update?

[Eraserhead]

I wish I didn't have to restart my computer in order to update my browser. That's so... windows :rolleyes:

Its because Webkit is also updated and that is used by a lot of other apps which also need restarting. They could just restart those apps, but that isn't as simple.

[Erwin-Br]

I wish I didn't have to restart my computer in order to update my browser. That's so... windows :rolleyes:

You haven't been using Windows since 98 or ME, I see... Restarting Windows after installing updates is pretty rare since XP. I'd say it's on par with OSX. Only Linux offers less reboots, AFAIK.

--Erwin

[nsbio]

Safari 3.1 had not had a crash since its release and 3.1.1 crashed on me twice in one day. I think they should start adding disclaimers to their software updates.

[Eraserhead]

Restarting Windows after installing updates is pretty rare since XP.

It seems to happen pretty damn often on Vista.

[clevin]

It seems to happen pretty damn often on Vista.

idk, so far I haven't have many cases with my vista box. sometimes i leave it on for weeks..most reboot is for system update, which I try to ignore most of the time...:)

[Eraserhead]

idk, so far I haven't have many cases with my vista box. sometimes i leave it on for weeks..most reboot is for system update, which I try to ignore most of the time...:)

True, its mostly system updates...

[Mydel]

I dont know whats in that update but Im getting -1810 error when trying to open ANY application. I have to restarted twice and now it stopped but its not encouraging...

[clevin]

I dont know whats in that update but Im getting -1810 error when trying to open ANY application. I have to restarted twice and now it stopped but its not encouraging...

just so happen there is no definition for -1810 in MacErrors.h :rolleyes:

[Mydel]

just so happen there is no definition for -1810 in MacErrors.h :rolleyes:

Hmm OK so that was 1081,8010....Something with 1,8 and 0...:cool:

[overcast]

here's what i don't get.
why would ANYONE rate this article a negative?
there were 71 positives and 22 negatives?
how could a software patch be a negative thing when it addresses security issues, or for that matter for any reason?
i think there are just some apple haters out there that get a kick out of rating every article a negative.
if anyone rated it a negative what was your reason?
Who really cares? It's a useless feature.

[overcast]

The problem is, if you threaten people, you're less likely to get any help.

And being a Mac user who has banned all Windows machines from the company and swapped the PCs over to Ubuntu, I can't actually help you - other than to say that Safari was fine in the early days, began using masses of memory and CPU capacity and recently has been somewhat less stable that we're used to with Mac apps.

If you really want to give it issues, open some thirty pages, each with more than ten Tabs! Do this with a dozen other apps running. Then open Google Earth. I experienced my first Mac crash in six years by doing this!

I'm not sure how downloads work in with Safari on a PC running Vista. But on a Mac, on the right of each download in the Download window, there's a magnifying glass. Clicking that opens up the window where the download has downloaded to.

You can set the download destination in Preferences, but I think the default is to the Desktop. My guess is that your downloads are there somewhere, and in common with many files in Windows, they're just hiding!

Do let us know how you get on.
lol, Ubuntu or any other Linux is worthless on the desktop. I'd rather just use Windows and have all of the desktop apps you need.

[clevin]

lol, Ubuntu or any other Linux is worthless on the desktop. I'd rather just use Windows and have all of the desktop apps you need.

now, thats a statement comeing from absolutely no experience.

[overcast]

now, thats a statement comeing from absolutely no experience.
Yeh because I've been using it since 96, you're right. Unless you have specific medical/science apps, it's a server OS, and that's final. It's by no means a daily desktop OS for the masses.

[iFizz]

...It's a server OS, and that's final.

Kneel before Zod! :rolleyes:

[clevin]

Yeh because I've been using it since 96, you're right. Unless you have specific medical/science apps, it's a server OS, and that's final. It's by no means a daily desktop OS for the masses.

since 96 doesn't make your statement true. medical/science app is not only thing, if the "masses" only surfing, emailing, chatting, writing, simple calculation, video watching, music playing, podcast receiving and playing, bt downloading... etc

Not to mention there was no ubuntu in 1996.;)

there is people ranting here at MR sometimes call OSX worthless as well, does that make it true?

there is people ranting here and everywhere calling vista a piece of ....., does that make it true?

Im not interested in arguing, just want to make sure people don't get wrong idea from your over-simplified statement. :) You are really not part of "mass" from beginning anyway.

[overcast]

since 96 doesn't make your statement true. medical/science app is not only thing, if the "masses" only surfing, emailing, chatting, writing, simple calculation, video watching, music playing, podcast receiving and playing, bt downloading... etc

Not to mention there is no ubuntu in 1996.;)

there is people ranting here at MR sometimes call OSX worthless as well, does that make it true?

there is people ranting here and everywhere calling vista a piece of ....., does that make it true?

Im not interested in arguing, just want to make sure people don't get wrong idea from your over-simplified statement. :) You are really not part of "mass" from beginning anyway.
I was referring to Linux itself, not Ubuntu. I started with Slackware in 96. If the general public does not know what Ubuntu is, or even Linux for that matter, it's not OS for the masses.

[Toe]

You are really not part of "mass" from beginning anyway.
And fwiw, the XO-1 runs linux and is entirely a computer for the masses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC_XO-1

[overcast]

And fwiw, the XO-1 runs linux and is entirely a computer for the masses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC_XO-1
Yeh we see how well that project is rocking. Those kids are getting some serious things done surfing the internet.

[clevin]

I was referring to Linux itself, not Ubuntu. I started with Slackware in 96. If the general public does not know what Ubuntu is, or even Linux for that matter, it's not OS for the masses.

you obviously should know slackware is much more advanced and much less end-user friendly than ubuntu. I m not sure if you tried ubuntu or not at all, since 7.10, ubuntu has been very much "masses" friendly. Its really not accurate to categorize linux as a whole nowadays.

"Generally public doesn't know" is not a criteria. when firefox started, general public didn't know it neither, but that doesn't mean it was not for the "masses".

[Toe]

Yeh we see how well that project is rocking. Those kids are getting some serious things done surfing the internet.

Well, that was my point. They are surfing... being "the masses." They certainly are not using it as strictly a server OS.

[overcast]

you obviously should know slackware is much more advanced and much less end-user friendly than ubuntu. I m not sure if you tried ubuntu or not at all, since 7.10, ubuntu has been very much "masses" friendly. Its really not accurate to categorize linux as a whole nowadays.

"Generally public doesn't know" is not a criteria. when firefox started, general public didn't know it neither, but that doesn't mean it was not for the "masses".
Can I get TurboTax on Ubunutu? And I'm not talking about the online edition.

Well, that was my point. They are surfing... being "the masses." They certainly are not using it as strictly a server OS.
Ok so as long as the only thing you do is use a web browser, then Ubuntu and other Linux desktops are ok. Got it. I stand corrected.

[clevin]

Can I get TurboTax on Ubunutu? And I'm not talking about the online edition.

if you want to just argue for sake of arguing, do the "masses" have to use turbotax?

I didn't see turboxtas used by 100million people. did you?

PS. I don't care arguing just for the sake of arguing, but I do understand its not honest and helps no one. Just so you know, I didn't start it. :)

Ok so as long as the only thing you do is use a web browser, then Ubuntu and other Linux desktops are ok. Got it. I stand corrected.

I guess its ok for you to ignore Mplayer, Openoffice, skype video chat, inkscape drawing, adobe reader, DVD ripper, amorok music manager/player, bt downloader, etc...

Lets face it, they are all in ubuntu repo that can be accessed through start menu with no need for a single terminal line.

[morespce54]

Great, now I have to uncheck the intrusive Safari "INSTALL ME" box for the next three weeks before I decide, "screw it" and install the new version, even though I don't want it, but I'll do it so it will stop hassling me.

Yes, I would be cool if you had an option "Remind me later" so it doesn't bug you for a few days.



I wish I didn't have to restart my computer in order to update my browser. That's so... windows
i don't think many windows app installations ask for reboot nowadays neither...

The funny thing is the Safari update on Windoze doesn't ask for a reboot! ;)
Actually, it does but it's for the QT update (which makes sense)

[clevin]

The funny thing is the Safari update on Windoze doesn't ask for a reboot! ;)


really? my impression is that when safari 3 for windows beta rolled out, it indeed asked for reboot... maybe it changed, idk.

[Zargot]

Hey! It still has the 'Try to trick Windows users into installing software they don't want' bug!

At least they now have a separate section that specifies Safari as new software... (It may have already been there.)

[clevin]

At least they now have a separate section that specifies Safari as new software... (It may have already been there.)

its still from software "updater", its still checked by default, masses still "clicking ok" all along.

reduce deception from 90% to 85%, IMHO, is still dishonest. But I really don't except apple to be honest anyway. I just hope all users would educate themselves enough. Not only in this case, but also in day-2-day usage.

[xUKHCx]

At least they now have a separate section that specifies Safari as new software... (It may have already been there.)

It wasn't like that before. I just checked my machine that I install iTunes on this afternoon and it presented me with an Update to Apple Software Update, ran the update and then I was presented with the new style update including the Safari option so they have pulled it from the update and moved it to a new section. Although it is still checked by default.

[Toe]

The funny thing is the Safari update on Windoze doesn't ask for a reboot! ;)
Apple uses WebKit for a lot more than just Safari, so it may be that they make us reboot to release those other hooks. I suspect that low-level patches to Explorer require a Windows reboot.

But since Safari on Windows is just an app with no outside hooks... no reboot.

[jellomizer]

Why is the Safari update like 2.5 times larger then all of Firefox is? That's just aggravating...

Universal Binaries have both Intel and PC versions... Update code may be more complex then just an install Folder Copy) Possible update to the OS X code base (Web kit) which is used for other sections as well. There are lot of reasons why the update can be bigger then firefox. As well firefox doesn't have the same features as Safari. Also firefox developers are focused on making a small binary vs. Apple who focus on Interface and time out. Sacrificing binary size. (at $0.50 a gig who cares)

[clevin]

Universal Binaries have both Intel and PC versions...
so does firefox:confused:Update code may be more complex then just an install Folder Copy)

so complex that mozilla can make it and apple can't? (i still think its they dont "care")
Possible update to the OS X code base (Web kit) which is used for other sections as well.
Highly unlikely, its a 0.0.1 update, patches 4 security holes, it askes 22MB (universal/2) on windows version too, last time I checked, there is no OSX code base in windows
There are lot of reasons why the update can be bigger then firefox. As well firefox doesn't have the same features as Safari.
same !=more, most people would agree firefox has more features, and with totally native nature of safari, it should take even less space Also firefox developers are focused on making a small binary vs. Apple who focus on Interface and time out. Sacrificing binary size. (at $0.50 a gig who cares)
I never seen firefox focused on making small binary.
Does 3.1.1 change any interface and time out (what is it?) compare to 3.1? I don't think so.

I don't think you are making valid argument here.

Remember its the same behavior as iTunes, every 0.0.1 update of iTunes is packaged with a 45MB download.

[dejo]

I just hope all users would educate themselves enough. Not only in this case, but also in day-2-day usage.
Which goes totally against your views on browser-built-in anti-phishing technology (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=5060975&postcount=13), doesn't it? Have you changed your views on this?

[clevin]

Which goes totally against your views on browser-built-in anti-phishing technology (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=5060975&postcount=13), doesn't it? Have you changed your views on this?

no, i have not, and there is nothing against my previous posts.

my world isn't black and white, I hope users can be educated, doesn't mean I think they current are (no offense to anybody here:)).

Just to add, there is something even if you educate yourself enough, you still can fall into it, many phishing websites are among them. Lot of creative ppl out there trying to get you.

Apple's trick, good to say, is quite low level, ppl can educate themselves relative easily and escape the trap.

I have different judgment on different level of tricks, Im not expecting users to do things out of their reach.

[BenRoethig]

Great little patch so far. It feels a bit faster and a couple websites I rely on that weren't compatible with Safari now are. Looks like I can put Firefox back on the shelf again.

[dejo]

Looks like I can put Firefox back on the shelf again.
Shh. Clevin might hear you. :D

[clevin]

Shh. Clevin might hear you. :D
Im so confident right now, I don't really care what some individual do anymore :D

did you not see I haven't been arguing for a long time? Yep, THAT confident ;)

[Kilamite]

Im so confidant right now, I don't really care what some individual do anymore :D

did you not see I haven't been arguing for a long time? Yep, THAT confidant ;)

*Confident.

[clevin]

*Confident.

*sigh*:o

[G58]

Ubuntu is specifically designed for universal uptake with everyone from first time users in the developing world to what you describe variously as "the general public" and "the masses".

Faking experience tends to show up inexperience rather quickly. You'd be better off Googling 'ubuntu' and keeping quiet.

I was referring to Linux itself, not Ubuntu. I started with Slackware in 96. If the general public does not know what Ubuntu is, or even Linux for that matter, it's not OS for the masses.

[G58]

Thank you G58. I appreciate your advice... ??

Amongst Mac users, we tend to help each other out when one asks for help. My mistake was assuming that being allowed to use a superior browser might have a positive effect on a PC users.


lol, Ubuntu or any other Linux is worthless on the desktop. I'd rather just use Windows and have all of the desktop apps you need.

[majordude]

EDIT: p.s. It also requires a restart.

That's sort of crazy. A browser update needing to restart the computer? Isn't that what got Microsoft into trouble with "The Man" in the first place... a free internet browser being an integral part of the OS?! :eek:

Don't let Netscape learn of this!

[cmcbridejr]

That's sort of crazy. A browser update needing to restart the computer? Isn't that what got Microsoft into trouble with "The Man" in the first place... a free internet browser being an integral part of the OS?! :eek:

Don't let Netscape learn of this!

Great point.

How does Apple get away with so much that Microsoft does not? Lack of real market share?

[xUKHCx]

The internet browser is not an integral part of the OS the underlying technology (webkit) is used for quite a few different applications for example iTunes store iirc. It requires a restart because it is the simplest way of making sure that all applications that use it are restarted.

[clevin]

The internet browser is not an integral part of the OS the underlying technology (webkit) is used for quite a few different applications for example iTunes store iirc. It requires a restart because it is the simplest way of making sure that all applications that use it are restarted.

anybody remember if IE6->IE7 asks for reboot? I never did it, so not quite sure.

[Kilamite]

anybody remember if IE6->IE7 asks for reboot? I never did it, so not quite sure.

You missed the point about other applications that use WebKit also need restarting..

[clevin]

You missed the point about other applications that use WebKit also need restarting..

really? what did I miss? doesn't windows explorer/file manager use underline code from IE as well?

or IE is bundled less deep in windows than safari in osx?:eek:

[majordude]

You missed the point about other applications that use WebKit also need restarting..

Well, it isn't a "webkit" update. It is a Safari update that needs to access something deep enough to require a reboot that Apple reserves for low-level system updates.

I know that times have changed and Netscape is an asterisk in the history of the internet but this IS what got MS in trouble with Uncle Sammy. :(

[iFizz]

Again with the restart questions... {sigh} :rolleyes:

1) If you have a lot of plug-ins and 3rd-party apps, then wait until the 3rd-party developers update your plug-ins and apps before you apply Safari's update. These guys usually push out updates to their products within a few days of an Apple update. You'd think most of you would have figured this out by now considering how long most of you claim to have been using OSX.

2) Unless you are using dial-up, quit whining about the size the Apple updates are. You torrenters are too impatient if you can't stand a 20-second download from Apple. Lay off the Red Bull and Monster! :D Apple decides not to do incremental updates because a clean install is more reliable.

3) Finally, unless you are a software engineer and know what you are talking about, stop whining about restarting your Mac when you have to apply Apple software updates. Apple has a reason for this "inconvenience." I'm quite certain their engineers know more about how OSX works than 99% of the users here (mostly teenagers).

No wonder the PC folks call us snobs! Whining like this is like a 1st-class airline passenger whining about not getting the wine glass refilled fast enough. Yes, you pay more for a better service/product, but you're not the Queen of England. Cut back on the caffeine and try chanting "goose-frahbah." {/rant} :D

[xUKHCx]

anybody remember if IE6->IE7 asks for reboot? I never did it, so not quite sure.

I remember and it required me to restart once when removing IE6 then it installed IE7 and required a further restart. So it took 2 restarts.

Then moving from IE7 to IE8 also took another restart on XP SP2. :confused:

[PsychoSid]

Linux has spoiled me. On my Linux boxes, I can upgrade all but the kernel without a reboot. I can even swap hardware device drivers, as long as they are not controlling a critical resource (like the hard drive with the root file system.)

Yes I hear that the problem is the old libraries that may have been upgraded may still be resident in memory until everything free's it up it. Try upgrading libc on (pretty much as *nix) and it won't need a reboot but a lot of stuff won't be using the new versions.

I suspect this is the case with these type of updates it's the only way to ensure the new libraries are loaded and as these are predominately security related it makes sense. For the brave amongst us you can ignore the restart but on your heads be it !

[BenRoethig]

Personally I didn't mind that I had to reboot. I'm just happy it works right now.

[G58]

What's the big issue with rebooting?

OS X is designed to sort out lots of issues upon restart. That is: DESIGNED TO!, meaning you have less need to use apps such as Disk Utility etc.

Te days of taking pride in not restarting a Mac are over. Intel [inside... sshhh] to care of that.

Now, a restart is the first and best way to sort issues. Get over it.

[clevin]

What's the big issue with rebooting?

OS X is designed to sort out lots of issues upon restart. That is: DESIGNED TO!, meaning you have less need to use apps such as Disk Utility etc.

Te days of taking pride in not restarting a Mac are over. Intel [inside... sshhh] to care of that.

Now, a restart is the first and best way to sort issues. Get over it.
not a big issue, still
1. loss of a bragging right, and realize the real world truth about rebooting of computers, mac or pc :D
2. more series question, from me, i don't believe for a second this has anything to do with webkit and underlying OSX code (I also don't think webkit is a deep integral part of OSX code base and used by significant amount of stuff in OSX). Its a 0.0.1 browser update, these security holes mentioned in previous reports do not require anything deep in OSX to be changed (at least I don't think so), combined with apple's inability to deliver partial updates. My impression is apple just doesn't care about making good software anymore (not sure they ever did). This, IMHO, is directly encouraged by some mac users who are all too forgiving for any mistakes or shortcoming from apple.

I remember and it required me to restart once when removing IE6 then it installed IE7 and required a further restart. So it took 2 restarts.

Then moving from IE7 to IE8 also took another restart on XP SP2. :confused:

Thanks! My old XP was transformed into ubuntu directly, never updated it, new windows box is IE7 from start....just curiosity, not "missing point" :)

[BongoBanger]

Thank you G58. I appreciate your advice... ??

Amongst Mac users, we tend to help each other out when one asks for help. My mistake was assuming that being allowed to use a superior browser might have a positive effect on a PC users.

Which would be true if it was better than Firefox, which - from my POV anyway - it isn't.

[iFizz]

...I don't believe for a second this has anything to do with webkit and underlying OSX code (I also don't think webkit is a deep integral part of OSX code base and used by significant amount of stuff in OSX). Its a 0.0.1 browser update, these security holes mentioned in previous reports do not require anything deep in OSX to be changed (at least I don't think so), combined with apple's inability to deliver partial updates. My impression is apple just doesn't care about making good software anymore (not sure they ever did)....

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
Seriously, you just got my vote for the most ignorant post of the day. :rolleyes:
A whole lot of believing, thinking, and impressions.
No facts, stats, or evidence. What are you basing your ridiculous beliefs, thoughts, and impressions upon? :confused:

[fhall1]

Upon installation and subsequent reboot, my (Intel) Mac Mini hung at the "blue" screen with the spinning cog highlighting the "six o'clock" area of the cog. I left it for about 10 minutes, then resorted to powering off and on.

It got a little farther in the boot-up, then restarted again on it's own...after this restart everything seems to be normal...but it had me scared there for a couple minutes that a x.x.1 update would hose the system.

[doctorsid]

Who in their right mind would run Vista anyway? I feel sorry for you if you have to run Windoze OS

[clevin]

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
Seriously, you just got my vote for the most ignorant post of the day. :rolleyes:
A whole lot of believing, thinking, and impressions.
No facts, stats, or evidence. What are you basing your ridiculous beliefs, thoughts, and impressions upon? :confused:

at least I use those word, there are ppl making guesses w/o any of those words, ignorant?

believe or not, your freedome, nobody force u, whats the pointing attacking, no guessing allow here or what? :confused:

you don't like to hear ppl complaining, then you need to realize this place is for ppl to complain, ignore it, or answer the question, attacking is against forum rules.

just to add, i wouldn't be sitting here guessing if anybody previously provided convincing document rather than their own "guessing" plus apple's non-substance briefing.

[iFizz]

at least I use those word, there are ppl making guesses w/o any of those words...
So, you're saying if you use those words ("I think", "I believe", etc.) then we are to believe the claims you are making, with no facts or evidence to support them?
...you don't like to hear ppl complaining, then you need to realize this place is for ppl to complain, ignore it, or answer the question, attacking is against forum rules.
I don't think anyone minds complaining, provided there is a valid gripe. Many users on this thread have explained to you, time and again, why Apple makes you restart and why these types of updates aren't incremental.
I didn't attack you. I read you're post, with no facts, just speculations, like:
My impression is apple just doesn't care about making good software anymore (not sure they ever did).
...and I said that it was an ignorant thing to say. If you think that's an inappropriate thing for me to say, then I would say it's no more inappropriate than you saying Apple doesn't care about software development. Seriously... :rolleyes: Other people have "guessed" here, but they have backed those guesses up with rational and logical thought. You haven't done that, and that is why I'm questioning (not attacking) your comments.

I asked you questions:

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
What are you basing your ridiculous beliefs, thoughts, and impressions upon?
Would you like to answer or just be "confident" with nothing to base it on? If you don't want to back up your previous comments, that's fine, nobody is forcing you to or attacking you. But you will lose credibility here if you make statements like the above and don't back them up. Just FYI.

[iFizz]

What's the big issue with rebooting?
OS X is designed to sort out lots of issues upon restart. That is: DESIGNED TO!, meaning you have less need to use apps such as Disk Utility etc.
Te days of taking pride in not restarting a Mac are over. Intel [inside... sshhh] to care of that.
Now, a restart is the first and best way to sort issues. Get over it.

I would say this a good explanation for why we have to reboot. I'm sure there are others too. I just read an article that says Apple has increased computer market share by over 30% since this time last year. They are now the #4 personal computer seller, behind Dell, HP, and Acer. I would say they definitely care about making good software. They have to.

[clevin]

then I would say it's no more inappropriate than you saying Apple doesn't care about software development.
But you will lose credibility here if you make statements like the above and don't back them up. Just FYI.
i will let objective ppl read my words for themselves. u obvious taking bashing of apple upon yourself. im not interested in such personal exchanges.

about backing myself up... please.. wasn't my guess directly from apple's real world action? other people backup their guess with rational thought ? rational? what rational about some people's thought? when they obviously defending apple? u satisfied with those, but i don't, it tells more about what u like to hear than what is true.

please, these type of double standard kids game, play alone.

i m done with this exchange with ya, b4 it gets out of hand :)

enjoy urself.

[iFizz]

.....

So you don't want to answer my questions. Ok. Thanks!
It's been illuminating. :rolleyes:

[iFizz]

So........ back on topic.
Some of the 3.1.1 installation is done during system boot (you know, during the extra long gear churning right after POST). I'm curious how many people had their "gears" turning for an extra long time, like more than 30 seconds. All my Macs were done with this process in 30 seconds or less. Anyone have this problem? Any ideas why some systems had this problem and some didn't?

[k2spitfire88]

So........ back on topic.
Some of the 3.1.1 installation is done during system boot (you know, during the extra long gear churning right after POST). I'm curious how many people had their "gears" turning for an extra long time, like more than 30 seconds. All my Macs were done with this process in 30 seconds or less. Anyone have this problem? Any ideas why some systems had this problem and some didn't?

On Windoze, running XP, it took longer to boot it up than usual (I had to do a reboot as well)

[iFizz]

On Windoze, running XP, it took longer to boot it up than usual (I had to do a reboot as well)

Haven't heard that one yet. Very interesting. I have no clue how an update on your Mac partition would affect your XP partition.

[poe diddley]

Who really cares? It's a useless feature.

yeah, i suppose. but why would anyone say it's negative? just to do it to be dorks about it? it just urks me that no matter what the article is about, someone votes it negative. like enough of a percentage to notice it on a daily basis. like, the article could say "apple gives away free mac pros to everyone on mac rumors", and someone would vote it negative i guarantee.
just bugs me i guess.....

[shamino]

Yes I hear that the problem is the old libraries that may have been upgraded may still be resident in memory until everything free's it up it. Try upgrading libc on (pretty much as *nix) and it won't need a reboot but a lot of stuff won't be using the new versions.
That is true.

With UNIX file-system semantics, a file's disk blocks are freed when the last directory entry is removed and the last open file handle referencing it is closed.

If you delete and replace a shared library, applications currently running will keep using the one they have. They'll use the new one when they quit and restart.
I suspect this is the case with these type of updates it's the only way to ensure the new libraries are loaded and as these are predominately security related it makes sense. For the brave amongst us you can ignore the restart but on your heads be it !
You could still get (from the OS) the list of applications that are using the library. The installer could then present you with the list and ask if you want to just terminate them or just reboot.

Even key system apps (like the Finder or the system UI server) can be restarted, although you might have to log out to make that happen.

[k2spitfire88]

Haven't heard that one yet. Very interesting. I have no clue how an update on your Mac partition would affect your XP partition.

I'm not on a Mac yet, I am running Safari for XP, and I was told to restart, and it took me longer than normal.

[iFizz]

I'm not on a Mac yet, I am running Safari for XP, and I was told to restart, and it took me longer than normal.

Oh, well that is interesting. On a Mac, part of the install is done during the restart. Maybe the same occurs for Windows. This would cause the delay.

[k2spitfire88]

Oh, well that is interesting. On a Mac, part of the install is done during the restart. Maybe the same occurs for Windows. This would cause the delay.

I'm not sure, however, it is running better since the update.

[snuffdaddy]

You guys make it hard for someone to read this thread and determine whether they should install the update or not. hehe

[savar]

What's the big issue with rebooting?

OS X is designed to sort out lots of issues upon restart. That is: DESIGNED TO!, meaning you have less need to use apps such as Disk Utility etc.

Te days of taking pride in not restarting a Mac are over. Intel [inside... sshhh] to care of that.

Now, a restart is the first and best way to sort issues. Get over it.

It's not a big deal, but most people with Unix see a reboot as a cop-out. In other words, there's nothing that can be done in a reboot that couldn't be done at runtime.

In practice, it's easier for most end users to just do a reboot, but power users are forced to wonder.

Also, lately my laptop never works when I reboot to finish an installation. I have to reboot, then turn it off, turn it back on, and then it finishes correctly.

[shamino]

It's not a big deal, but most people with Unix see a reboot as a cop-out. In other words, there's nothing that can be done in a reboot that couldn't be done at runtime.
... aside from a kernel upgrade. But that's obviously not the situation here.
You guys make it hard for someone to read this thread and determine whether they should install the update or not.
Most people (including me) are not having problems, but with every update, there are some people that to experience problems. This isn't unusual - the same thing happens with all software products from all manufacturers.

Sometimes the problem is self-inflicted, sometimes it's due to an incompatibility with some kind of haxie (which sometimes was installed surreptitiously - like the broken input managers that Logitech's keyboard and mouse software uses) sometimes the installation itself messes up, and sometimes there are other problems.

Always keep in mind that a web forum such as this one will give you a skewed perspective. People without problems don't post very many messages, while people with serious problems will post a lot. This should not be surprising to anyone, but you can definitely get an artificially-bad perspective if you forget this fact.

If you are truly worried, I recommend you

Wait a week or two to update. If there is a serious problem that affects a lot of people (indicating an actual problem with the update and not some other factor that only affects a small number of users) then Apple will usually release another update within that time.
Make a full backup before you update. If you experience a problem that you can't fix, you can restore your system from that backup to undo the update. You can do this yourself using your favorite backup system (including Time Machine) or you can use a program specially designed for this purpose (like Deep Freeze (http://www.faronics.com/html/dfmac.asp), which may be a good idea if you think may need to do this often.)


FWIW, I don't take any special measures. I make a full-system backup every week, as part of my routine system maintenance procedure. If an update truly messes up the system (which hasn't yet happened, thankfully), I can restore my system from the most recent backup.