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MacBytes
Apr 22, 2008, 12:50 AM
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Category: Polls
Link: If OSX Was Available on Non-Proprietary Hardware, Would You Ditch Windows, Macs? (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20080422015002)
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Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
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iJesus
Apr 22, 2008, 12:54 AM
The integration of the software and the hardware is what makes a mac a mac.



If Apple ever opens up, I might go to Linux. Yes, I said it.

Asar
Apr 22, 2008, 12:57 AM
My mac is way too sexy. I would probably go to Linux too.

mac-convert
Apr 22, 2008, 01:01 AM
I for one would not care to run Mac OS X on anything but a Mac. I do not need to worry about if the system will work now or later. I can just enjoy using it for those projects that I have.

Reminder to self - plug in XP system at the end of the month to get SP3 updates to remember one of the reasons I switched. :D

NotFound
Apr 22, 2008, 01:04 AM
would you use it with a fox, in a box?

iJesus
Apr 22, 2008, 01:12 AM
would you use it with a fox, in a box?

Eh, I'd rather eat my green eggs and ham with a Penguin; and not have to pay for it. :p

Sun Baked
Apr 22, 2008, 01:18 AM
Time to get out the Home Defibrillator and run down to the bankruptcy court and see anything can be done with the corpse of Amiga at that point.

motulist
Apr 22, 2008, 01:25 AM
The options are too black and white, so I had to choose "other."

"Yes, I would ditch my Mac for non-proprietary hardware" implies that I tolerate my Mac hardware in order to use OS X and that I definitely would switch hardware given the opportunity, but that's not at all true. However, I would CONSIDER switching to non-Apple hardware for some of my computer uses, and in all likelihood I'd probably wind up with some Apple Macs and some non-Apple OS X machines.

Nermal
Apr 22, 2008, 01:31 AM
No, I will not ditch my Mac (laptop), however I would likely buy an additional "open" system (desktop) if the specs look good.

bluebomberman
Apr 22, 2008, 02:02 AM
Are we talking about legally running OS X on a generic box, or the "FrankenMac" and "Hackintosh" systems that probably exist in the hundreds right now?

Life gets a lot worse when you trade in your Genius Bar appointments for tech support from a brain-dead technician that may or may not have a heavy accent. (Or "zero" tech support for the "FrankenMacs.")

ttopp
Apr 22, 2008, 05:24 AM
No, I will not ditch my Mac (laptop), however I would likely buy an additional "open" system (desktop) if the specs look good.

i had a look and to be honest id still get the mac just because the lower end machine is ok for the price (cos you kin upgrade.... possibly) but when you go higher y take the risk with that kind o money?

saltyzoo
Apr 22, 2008, 05:49 AM
The integration of the software and the hardware is what makes a mac a mac.



If Apple ever opens up, I might go to Linux. Yes, I said it.

This does not compute. Why would OS X running on open hardware motivate you to run Linux? It wouldn't change your situation in any way if you are already running OS X on a mac.

yoyo5280
Apr 22, 2008, 05:54 AM
Linux.Maybe.

mklos
Apr 22, 2008, 07:04 AM
I wouldn't totally ditch the Mac. I love Apple's hardware and their designs. There's just simply nothing like it on any other platform, or even a DIY PC. I would consider getting a tower, or maybe build my own tower with OS X on it. But I would definitely still own a genuine Mac.

It would be nice for me to have a tower that I can use at home for various things. But I also need a laptop, so I would go MacBook or MacBook Pro there.

Like others have said though, there's more to a Mac than just the OS. Its the whole experience. Some non-Mac users just don't get it and no matter what you do, you can't drill it into their head. They simply don't get that concept. So if Apple did allow it, it would be the end of Apple as we know it. Maybe the company would stay in business, but their computers would eventually end up being "just another computer", only classier than the rest. In other words, their computers wouldn't be what they used to be.

BenRoethig
Apr 22, 2008, 08:51 AM
I would go forward with replacing my 12" iBook with either a 13" Macbook or Macbook Air, but I would get my desktop from another company. This iMac is an amazing family machine, but is far too limited for my needs.

sunfast
Apr 22, 2008, 10:02 AM
I'd probably have a generic box hidden somewhere for any heavy lifting and major storage but I'd have an apple laptop that would be the machine I'd use all the time.

freebooter
Apr 22, 2008, 10:28 AM
I don't like having so little choice.

Mid-range desk-top? iMac with a glossy screen. Only.

:mad:

Jobs and his cabal suck.

SPUY767
Apr 22, 2008, 10:59 AM
In either case, the numbers seem like a win/win for apple. There is interest in and loyalty to the platform.

Foxglove9
Apr 22, 2008, 11:02 AM
I would still use and love OS X. I tried using Linux and just can't understand how it works.

SilvorX
Apr 22, 2008, 11:07 AM
I like Macs because it's a perfect integration of hardware and software, but at the same time, Apple could improve.. ie on the Mac mini.. it had/has potential to be a great desktop machine but they haven't fulfilled the idea. A mac mini with specs similar to an iMac would be nice

jephrey
Apr 22, 2008, 11:21 AM
Why not? At least to try out for fun. I'd still buy apple hardware, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't try out a really inexpensive alternate (if it was really less expensive) for the kids or something like that. I've always been a "you get what you pay for" kind of guy. But if the price is worth trying to prove that statement wrong, then I'm open to it...

Maybe if someone made $200 hardware, with obviously low specs, that would be where I'd be willing to buy it. However if the alternative was $700 for something that was like a headless iMac, I'd opt for the apple hardware and get a mini. Maybe less performance (or so the specs say), but Apple hardware.

So that's my cutoff. If you make $200 hardware that'll run OSX, I'll try it out... Otherwise, there's something that Apple makes in a similar price range

DMann
Apr 22, 2008, 12:01 PM
I like Macs because it's a perfect integration of hardware and software, but at the same time, Apple could improve.. ie on the Mac mini.. it had/has potential to be a great desktop machine but they haven't fulfilled the idea. A mac mini with specs similar to an iMac would be nice

This would be the tipping point for many switchers.

Eraserhead
Apr 22, 2008, 12:27 PM
I'd buy a (fairly) expensive business laptop and run OS X on it. Sorry Apple your hardware isn't good enough.

Father Jack
Apr 22, 2008, 12:31 PM
I wouldn't run OSX on anything but a Mac.

They were designed for each other like ..... Love & Marriage or Custard & Applecake .. :)

cRuNcHiE
Apr 22, 2008, 12:51 PM
I'd still buy an Apple Laptop, id keep my macbook pro and macbook but i'd never buy an official Apple Dekstop.

On my current DIY Pc, With the latest kalyway of 10.5.2 i dont need to do any messing with code or install any other drivers, everything just works, including accelerated 7900gtx graphics, sound, network, AHCI sata, the lot. It's ALOT faster than my macbook pro, and easily as stable.
Before anyone asks, i also bought an extra licence of Leopard.

I can only assume if it was officially opened up it would be even better.

Granted, the reason osx works so well is because apple know what hardware is it being put on.

Whats the problem of approving specific motherboards, graphics cards, soundcards for use with OSX? Those are the key components that affect the compatibility and stability surely.

Narrow down the scope of hardware that will be supported to ensure stability.

This would free it up for people to use custom cases, monitors, processors and graphics cards while keeping the generic architecture the same.

I can think of many friends that would like a mac, but without the price tag.

As long as the hardware was approved by Apple i really don't see the problem. They can still make their own laptops/desktops for the people that really want the best possible stability/support.

ghall
Apr 22, 2008, 12:56 PM
If I want an OS that runs on a vast array of computers, I'll use Windows thank you. The whole appeal of the Mac package IMO is that everything is integrated.

cbrain
Apr 22, 2008, 12:56 PM
I would not ditch my Mac.

Dane D.
Apr 22, 2008, 01:30 PM
I'd buy a (fairly) expensive business laptop and run OS X on it. Sorry Apple your hardware isn't good enough.
Confused by your hardware statement. Funny since 1992 have had only two power supplies go down and one faulty board (21 computers in that time period).

As for running OSX on other hardware, no thanks. I like the rock solid integration of the OS and the hardware in a good looking case.

Like others have said though, there's more to a Mac than just the OS. Its the whole experience. Some non-Mac users just don't get it and no matter what you do, you can't drill it into their head. They simply don't get that concept. So if Apple did allow it, it would be the end of Apple as we know it. Maybe the company would stay in business, but their computers would eventually end up being "just another computer", only classier than the rest. In other words, their computers wouldn't be what they used to be.
So true, in my circle of friends, they are Windows only. They wouldn't even consider a Mac or the MacOS. No amount of persuasion can convince them there is a better way.

twoodcc
Apr 22, 2008, 01:33 PM
it's like i kinda would like to see apple open up, but then again i wouldn't

Norris3eb
Apr 22, 2008, 01:35 PM
If I want an OS that runs on a vast array of computers, I'll use Windows thank you. The whole appeal of the Mac package IMO is that everything is integrated.

If Macs became "Built-To-Order" only, with the premise being all build options across the spectrum of the line were available on each model, I'd switch.

(13" MacBook with 4 Gig of RAM, and 512MB VRAM, 500 Gig HD, heck yes)

Eraserhead
Apr 22, 2008, 01:47 PM
Confused by your hardware statement. Funny since 1992 have had only two power supplies go down and one faulty board (21 computers in that time period).

Well that's not my experience at all with my MacBook. A fair few of the issues seem to be common "design" issues too.

Windows problems are down to two things.

1) Rubbish frameworks (source (http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/what-microsoft-could-learn-from-apple.ars)).

2) Very low end machines have suitably low end hardware, if your paying as much as a Mac for a PC it will be built as well if not better.

nplima
Apr 22, 2008, 01:53 PM
Are we talking about legally running OS X on a generic box, or the "FrankenMac" and "Hackintosh" systems that probably exist in the hundreds right now?

Life gets a lot worse when you trade in your Genius Bar appointments for tech support from a brain-dead technician that may or may not have a heavy accent. (Or "zero" tech support for the "FrankenMacs.")

no, we're talking about all other computers with Asus/Foxconn motherboards, Intel Chipset, Intel Core2duo CPU, Intel 950 graphics chip, your brand of choice for RAM, for 3.5" SATA drives, running OS X without any hardware or software mechanism that tried to verify if the computer was manufactured by Apple. Just imagine going to your favourite computer shop, picking your PC of choice, then going to the OS shelf and picking OS X, after carefully considering an assortment of Windows, Linux or BSD offers.

oh, by the way... what kind of support does one need for Apple computers that requires a genius? my machines have always worked at least as smoothly as the other computers I've had.

ppnkg
Apr 22, 2008, 01:54 PM
what, no mac? no way!

walnuts
Apr 22, 2008, 01:59 PM
If I want an OS that runs on a vast array of computers, I'll use Windows thank you. The whole appeal of the Mac package IMO is that everything is integrated.

I agree- windows may be plagued with problems, but you have to hand it to them that they have a ton more experience with writing software for hardware that they don't make.

Apple's stuff has enough bugs now without introducing hardware as a whole as a new variable in the mix.

iTattoo
Apr 22, 2008, 02:02 PM
http://www.macworld.com/article/133028/2008/04/building_mac_clone.html?lsrc=top_2

I like the fact that I don't have to sort out why my computer doesn't work each time there is an update from AAPL.

nomar383
Apr 22, 2008, 02:05 PM
I wouldn't ditch my mac laptop, but I would get a fast (non-mac hardware) desktop for home use

Dustman
Apr 22, 2008, 02:18 PM
I would still use and love OS X. I tried using Linux and just can't understand how it works.

+1. Not user friendly at all.

bluebomberman
Apr 22, 2008, 02:40 PM
Are we talking about legally running OS X on a generic box, or the "FrankenMac" and "Hackintosh" systems that probably exist in the hundreds right now?

Life gets a lot worse when you trade in your Genius Bar appointments for tech support from a brain-dead technician that may or may not have a heavy accent. (Or "zero" tech support for the "FrankenMacs.")

no, we're talking about all other computers with Asus/Foxconn motherboards, Intel Chipset, Intel Core2duo CPU, Intel 950 graphics chip, your brand of choice for RAM, for 3.5" SATA drives, running OS X without any hardware or software mechanism that tried to verify if the computer was manufactured by Apple. Just imagine going to your favourite computer shop, picking your PC of choice, then going to the OS shelf and picking OS X, after carefully considering an assortment of Windows, Linux or BSD offers.

oh, by the way... what kind of support does one need for Apple computers that requires a genius? my machines have always worked at least as smoothly as the other computers I've had.

So we're talking about legal OS X generic boxes.

If you're buying a computer from a store and have OS X legally installed, then there is an expectation that a) the thing will work, and b) you have support options.

I would have to think about it if that ever happens. (Not gonna happen ever, though.) Being a kinda recent switcher (it's been 3.5 years), I've become a big proponent of less annoying and less problematic computers, and I'm not sure a generic OS X box can fit the bill. I'd also have a harder time recommending generic OS X boxes to my friends, all of whom are significantly less geekier than I am.

elppa
Apr 22, 2008, 04:23 PM
OS X will be my OS of choice for as long as I believe it is still the best choice.

Would I look at other hardware if Apple licensed? Of course.

Right now we don't have much choice if we want to run OS X legally — although this isn't always a bad thing — you don't have to spend so much time deciding!

PlaceofDis
Apr 22, 2008, 04:26 PM
i'd consider building my own desktop, but probably stick with them for a laptop solution, unless the competition was just too good to pass up. sorry the macbook should at least have an option for an integrated gpu. at least.

puckhead193
Apr 22, 2008, 04:37 PM
hell no!
Like others have said, a mac is special because it runs on mac hardware which makes problem solving easier.

drewsof07
Apr 22, 2008, 04:38 PM
Opening up OSX would definitely increase Apple's popularity, but will open the mac up to bugs, ultimately losing it's exclusiveness and ease of use. One feature that attracted me was the lack of drivers installation. I know when i set up my PC, it took a day or two just to get all the drivers installed to run my hardware. Apple removes this process and makes it simple so you can get to work/play right away. That was a real plus for me. All in all, it would make the scared penny pinching PC switchers happy, but remove the mac's exclusiveness. And you know you would miss taking and posting all those unboxing pics! hahaha

VoodooDaddy
Apr 22, 2008, 04:51 PM
I dont get this mentality of "If its not Mac hardware NO WAY." Id certainly entertain the idea of building something if this were a possibility.

hell no!
Like others have said, a mac is special because it runs on mac hardware which makes problem solving easier.

This is what Im talking about. A Mac isnt special because of the hardware, its special because of the OS. Yes the "package" it comes in certainly is nice, but ultimately we buy them to use OSX.

PlaceofDis
Apr 22, 2008, 04:54 PM
I dont get this mentality of "If its not Mac hardware NO WAY." Id certainly entertain the idea of building something if this were a possibility.



This is what Im talking about. A Mac isnt special because of the hardware, its special because of the OS.

indeed. but i do appreciate and like the manner in which Apple designs their machines, which would probably hold some people. along with i'm sure a better warranty/guarantee on the seamlessness of them working together.

iJesus
Apr 22, 2008, 05:11 PM
This does not compute. Why would OS X running on open hardware motivate you to run Linux? It wouldn't change your situation in any way if you are already running OS X on a mac.

To me it does.

Let's face it. The only reason why windows sucks so much (and they actually do a GREAT job with what they have to deal with) is because it can go on any hardware. OS X rocks because Apple knows what hardware the software will be running on. If they didn't, sooner or later it would probably decline in terms of user experience.

Linux, free and goes on any hardware. Need to fix something? Download the latest operating system or fix the problem yourself. I know enough about coding to living happily in the field of Linux.

bigandy
Apr 22, 2008, 05:26 PM
Stop asking this bloody question.

Shouldn't happen. Won't happen.

PlaceofDis
Apr 22, 2008, 05:28 PM
Stop asking this bloody question.

Shouldn't happen. Won't happen.

it likely won't for a long time, but there is a small, small, small glimmer of hope that it could happen one day, however unlikely.

BenRoethig
Apr 22, 2008, 05:36 PM
Opening up OSX would definitely increase Apple's popularity, but will open the mac up to bugs, ultimately losing it's exclusiveness and ease of use. One feature that attracted me was the lack of drivers installation. I know when i set up my PC, it took a day or two just to get all the drivers installed to run my hardware. Apple removes this process and makes it simple so you can get to work/play right away. That was a real plus for me.

These aren't the PowerPC days anymore. When it comes down to it, Macs are running the same chipsets as the intel laptops and workstation. The differences come in the EFI ROM and component parts. Using a cheaper capacitor doesn't require a new driver.

If the OS were to expand, we wouldn't be talking about including legacy BIOS hardware, just what's currently in production and beyond. The list basically includes

Intel CPUs
Intel x3 series (possibly already supported)
Intel 965 mobile (already supported)
Intel 5400 (already supported)
Nvidia nforce 7 for Intel

AMD CPUs
AMD 7-series
nforce 7-series.

[quote]All in all, it would make the scared penny pinching PC switchers happy, but remove the mac's exclusiveness. And you know you would miss taking and posting all those unboxing pics! hahaha

Penny pinching? The massive gap between the low to middle end consumer iMac and the higher end professional MacPro cost Apple several hundred with me. Money isn't the only issue. Yeah Apple machines look great, but in many cases they don't quite match up well with the needs of the consumer.

Stop asking this bloody question.

Shouldn't happen. Won't happen.

The day the question stops being asks is either the day Apple learns or the day its in a lot of trouble.

MikeTheC
Apr 22, 2008, 05:48 PM
My only concern in building a Hackintosh would be the continuing support from the OSX86 community. If I could be assured they were never ever going to go anywhere, then sure.

I mean, there's no argument I can build a far better desktop than what Apple is selling, especially for the price. And Apple's hardware is no longer "special" as such. So frankly I see no technical reason not to do it.

As for a laptop, if I were in the market for one, I'd rather buy one of Apple's offerings, but that is a somewhat gray area for me, honestly.

JeffTL
Apr 22, 2008, 09:12 PM
The main reasons I buy from Apple are hardware and service, even though Mac OS X is also my operating system of preference. I'd sooner run Vista on a MacBook Pro than OS X on a Dell laptop, which might as well just be regular Unix – FreeBSD or Linux or something – except for the ability to run Excel without CrossOver, which is cheaper than Leopard at any rate.

iTattoo
Apr 23, 2008, 09:59 AM
One point that is not mentioned here is the value of time, and resale prices.

While a Hackintosh or Frankenmac may be cheaper initially when compared to a PowerMac, Apple computers have enjoyed a very healthy residual value when sold used. A homemade or 3rd party machine would most likely "enjoy" the same sorts or depreciation that a Windows based PC does, now layer that with the time spent each time there's an OS update to tweak the machine or resuscitate it and the pain in the a@@ when your computer is down when you need it, and the initial savings are dwarfed.

Denarius
Apr 23, 2008, 10:43 AM
Hmmm, I think a hardware free for all would not be a good idea, as people have mentioned this would create major problems on the extra resources needed to make OSX compatible with a wide range of hardware. That said, if hardware manufacturers got on board with developing the drivers then maybe it would widen the appeal, but there's no doubt the OS cost itself would have to go up in order to make up for the lost profits on hardware.

Allowing people to manufacture under license may be an option, but then as volumes of mac sales are going up the prices are going down, so maybe that would be a bit redundant.

At the end of the day, Apple's share of the PC market is on the up and up, so if it ain't broke, why fix it?

BenRoethig
Apr 23, 2008, 10:59 AM
Hmmm, I think a hardware free for all would not be a good idea, as people have mentioned this would create major problems on the extra resources needed to make OSX compatible with a wide range of hardware. That said, if hardware manufacturers got on board with developing the drivers then maybe it would widen the appeal, but there's no doubt the OS cost itself would have to go up in order to make up for the lost profits on hardware.

Allowing people to manufacture under license may be an option, but then as volumes of mac sales are going up the prices are going down, so maybe that would be a bit redundant.

At the end of the day, Apple's share of the PC market is on the up and up, so if it ain't broke, why fix it?

Apple's hardware has a very narrow focus and a lot of the sales are based on trends. It makes a lot of money in the short term, but also creates a bubble. If trend change, Apple's fortunes could go downhill in very short order. I would prefer the future of OSX remain a little more stable. There is also never going to be a chance like this to unseat Microsoft and define where the entire market goes.

sushi
Apr 23, 2008, 11:00 AM
The integration of the software and the hardware is what makes a mac a mac.
IMHO, all other arguments pale to this fact.

If I want issues with my computer and OS, I can always run Linux or Windows. ;)

BenRoethig
Apr 23, 2008, 11:14 AM
IMHO, all other arguments pale to this fact.

If I want issues with my computer and OS, I can always run Linux or Windows. ;)

Its an obsolete fact from the PowerPC days. The only major differences between intel based PCs and what Apple produces are enclosure design, quality of components, and the EFI rom chip. EFI is an open standard and neither the enclosure nor the those components don't need drivers.

teleromeo
Apr 23, 2008, 11:28 AM
My wife wanted a pc so I bought her a pc. If it was possible to install OsX aside windows I would do it.

sushi
Apr 23, 2008, 12:11 PM
Its an obsolete fact from the PowerPC days. The only major differences between intel based PCs and what Apple produces are enclosure design, quality of components, and the EFI rom chip. EFI is an open standard and neither the enclosure nor the those components don't need drivers.
Respectfully disagree.

While the hardware may be the same or very similar, the integration of OS to hardware is much better with the Mac OS.

IJ Reilly
Apr 23, 2008, 12:50 PM
My wife wanted a pc so I bought her a pc. If it was possible to install OsX aside windows I would do it.

How much would you be willing to pay?

philippott
Apr 28, 2008, 05:36 AM
Hi!

I had OSX 10.4 for a year and 10.5 for about 6 months until March, by then the iMac hardware got heavily outdated. During daily work I meantime use 3 monitors, usually have one, mostly 2 VMWares (Windows XP Visual Studio Sandboxes or a Centos box) running on my developer workstation and at the moment all this runs in Vista (32 bit). iTunes playes music without a hitch, while the system compiles an application etc.

With my previous 24" iMac I could not run 3 screens! For less of the money of one entry-basic-Powermac I got a very nice PC with 2 NVIDIA 8800 graphic cards, fast CPU, 4 GB memory, HD space in abundance, and 3 24" Video 7 monitors.

If OSX would run on such a hardware I might consider going back to OSX and use(d) Parallels for the development sandboxes. Thunderbird has some quirks which I never encounterd in Mac Mail. Having a decent terminal application is a strong plus for OSX, compared to PuTTY, and still I have the feeling OSX is the only OS that managed to get Copy&Paste as well the difference between Key and Mainwindow sorted/solved best. On the other side, WoW runs now with 60+ fps minimum for me now. On the iMac tanking Illidian in P4 on my lock tore fps down to 5-8, while now it is fluid with 20+ fps, and elsewhere in the game I get 60 fps capped with vertical sync on :-)

Regards

Wild-Bill
Apr 28, 2008, 05:55 AM
I'd build my own. In fact, when my Mac Pro outlives its usefulness I probably will. The ONLY reason I bought a Mac Pro this time around was out of sheer laziness. I had Tiger on my AMD home-built PC on a seperate hard drive, but installing OSX on an nForce4 motherboard was/is rather tricky. There are known proven hardware components that will work great with Leopard, and the information is out there.

The next time I build a computer for myself it will most certainly have OSX on it. I can decide what hardware I want, and have the ability to upgrade when I want and not be limited to Apple's hardware choices (particularly video cards). While I won't get into the argument over "bang for the buck" when it comes to a Mac, I will say that Apple's hard drive and memory pricing is laughable, and also insulting to the informed system builder.

xUKHCx
Apr 28, 2008, 06:04 AM
In a heart beat. Don't get me wrong my white iMac is very nice but for that money I could've put together a much better machine.

PCMacUser
Apr 28, 2008, 06:10 AM
The integration of the software and the hardware is what makes a mac a mac.

If Apple ever opens up, I might go to Linux. Yes, I said it.

From one extreme to another. From a GUI system that works to a GUI system that uh... hmm.

Rodimus Prime
Apr 28, 2008, 06:56 PM
Its an obsolete fact from the PowerPC days. The only major differences between intel based PCs and what Apple produces are enclosure design, quality of components, and the EFI rom chip. EFI is an open standard and neither the enclosure nor the those components don't need drivers.

I would like to say really this is true. The only thing that is locked in any more on the macs is the mother board.

The chip is intel and that is socket type base so really not apple control.

Hard drives are who ever the hell you want.
Ram same thing. Graphic card are already open season on apple in the power macs.

DVD drives are generic everyone is pretty much the same...

So apple is down to just the mobo being there.

As for quality of components it really is not that much better than dell. They use the same hard drive maker, Value ram, CPU same boat, Mobo is up in the air. Everything else is pretty much the same.

The only thing "lock in" any more on apple is the mobo.

ryannel2003
Apr 28, 2008, 08:50 PM
Nope, I'm more than glad to pay a premium on my iMac and MacBook. They're so purrty.

xUKHCx
Apr 29, 2008, 04:47 AM
From one extreme to another. From a GUI system that works to a GUI system that uh... hmm.

Have you ever tried / used linux at all in the last couple of year. The new Ubuntu 8.04 is very very good.

darwinian
Apr 29, 2008, 09:04 AM
As has been pointed out, it already is [available on non-proprietary hw], through various hacks of various success. There's not a lot that's compelling about OS X troubleshooting on non-proprietary hardware versus Linux troubleshooting, and that's what keeps me with OS X and not Linux these days, so I don't think opening up to other hardware would really get me interested in running OS X on another box, considering that I feel that Mac hardware is a reasonable value and not blatantly overpriced as has been suggested time and time again.

Having said that, I'd probably end up doing it anyway -- installing OS X on other hardware -- but it's the same curiosity that's driven me to tinker with Linux for the past 10 years.

DMann
Apr 29, 2008, 01:36 PM
Have you ever tried / used linux at all in the last couple of year. The new Ubuntu 8.04 is very very good.

Yes, this is true. Remarkable 3D interface and effects. Can be quirky at times, but overall a great improvement over previous versions.

PCMacUser
Apr 29, 2008, 11:29 PM
Have you ever tried / used linux at all in the last couple of year. The new Ubuntu 8.04 is very very good.
Sounds good. I've tried many varieties and versions over the years, but not this one.

elppa
Apr 30, 2008, 11:14 AM
Have you ever tried / used linux at all in the last couple of year. The new Ubuntu 8.04 is very very good.

It's good, but pretend for a moment Ubuntu Hardy Heron (8.0.4) doesn't exist.

Now pretend that Steve Jobs walks on stage and demos the default GUI in Hardy Heron for the next Mac OS X release. He would be ridiculed it it would be universally regarded as ugly.

I'm not talking about 3-D effects, I'm talking about the 2-D components that form the foundation of the GUI — buttons, tilebar, icons etc.

Out the box, the Mac is just far prettier.

I'll give you an example:

This is a login theme from the “GNOME Artists” (Happy GNOME):

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114130&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1209573897

I want to draw you attention to the buttons and menus in the bar at the bottom of the screen. Guess what they do when you click on each?

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114131&d=1209573897

Right now the answers:

[1] The first one isn't a button at all (surprise!) it's a menu. Clicking on it once brings up a list of options to pick from. Click again to hide the menu.

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114132&stc=1&d=1209573897

[2] Click once on the next menu, and the menu will flash up for a moment, and then disappear. You need to click and hold in this menu to see the contents.

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114133&stc=1&d=1209573897

[3] I guess as the third menu looks identical to the second, it will work the same? WRONG! This one you can just click once on to see the contents.

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114134&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1209573897

Although you might have to scroll down a bit now, because all options are listed off the screen…

It's dumb, inconsistent and completely unintuitive.

The point is not to bash Ubuntu, Linux or Open Source. My point is that on this very forum there were pages and pages of posts about transparent menu bars and the reflective dock. Rather puts those sort of “problems” into perspective.

GFLPraxis
May 1, 2008, 11:50 AM
Yes and no.

I would never buy a non-Apple laptop. Apple's got the best hardware engineering in the business, as well as design, and that stuff actually matters on a laptop.

For a desktop- as much as I absolutely love the iMac's design, I don't have the money to be that choosey. I'd build a Mac Pro-rivalling machine for the cost of the low-end iMac.

Actually, I ordered the parts last Sunday to build my Hackintosh, they should be here Thursday. $900 for a quad 2.4 GHz Core 2 Quad, 4 GB of RAM, 660 GB of hard drive space, and Geforce 8800GT. Blows away the $1199 iMac. Still...I wish it could look as nice.

And this only because I have the level of knowledge needed to get it running and actually have FUN tinkering. I would never recommend my friends build a hackintosh, and would always recommend they buy an iMac and have switched several.

cube
May 1, 2008, 11:58 AM
Current Mac hardware is not for me. I would certainly go for what the Mac really is today: just a PC.

teleromeo
May 2, 2008, 08:16 AM
How much would you be willing to pay?

Just the usual price of a mac Os .

elppa
May 2, 2008, 10:00 AM
Just the usual price of a mac Os .

There is no usual price for Mac OS X. The $129 you pay is actually an upgrade, because everyone who buys it (in theory) has a Mac, therefore is upgrading to the latest version. So the real cost is factored in when you buy a Mac.

Dustman
May 14, 2008, 05:19 PM
To the people suggesting that they'd rather move to Linux:

Have you ever tried Linux? I am a techy and can do anything and everything in both OS X and Windows. Linux... Just doesnt make sence. I like that its free but can the average person seriously use it as a primary desktop? I think not.

macwall
May 15, 2008, 07:04 PM
If they can make it just as stable on a variety of different hardware, I would definitely install it on my desktop. Ubuntu is working pretty well so far though.

Quillz
May 15, 2008, 08:29 PM
To the people suggesting that they'd rather move to Linux:

Have you ever tried Linux? I am a techy and can do anything and everything in both OS X and Windows. Linux... Just doesnt make sence. I like that its free but can the average person seriously use it as a primary desktop? I think not.
Linux is not Mac OS X. Mac OS X is not Windows. Windows is not Linux. Just because you're a "techie" doesn't you will be able to master Linux in one day.

Also, Linux is very easy to use for the average user, easier than Windows in some ways. Try Ubuntu. The package manager makes it very easy to manage and update software, and it has great hardware detection. It "just works."

hulugu
May 15, 2008, 10:29 PM
Currently, I don't see any compelling PC hardware that would warrant doing so.
Building my own box might be interesting and running OSX on something like an EeePC could be cool, but I'm not sure if it would be worth the hassle. If Apple were to lose their minds and start selling OSX for all PCs, I'd still purchase Macs because I like them so much.

Chairman Plow
May 31, 2008, 10:06 PM
Wouldn't give up my Mac. Nope. :apple: