Son wants to make movies-what do I need!What should i get?

[batikdruid]

Hi everybody - my son (15) wants to make movies(video editing). He wants an ibook. I have used macs in the past some, but know pcs. I know you're going to tell me that macs are way better than pcs, so I won't even ask! LOL

Should I get an ibook or imac? I think a laptop situation is best. Is there enough hard drive to comfortably accommodate video editing?

Do they come with a DVD+RW and does this make sense to get? Can you burn both cds and dvds?

I have a copy of Adobe Premiere. Will this work ok, or is it too advanced too soon and save for later when he/we have more experience?

I want good hardware and software that he can grow into, not bottom line basic, unless that is acceptable.

I still have analog video camera - do I need a capture card to convert /does one come with an ibook or imac?

Sorry if I sound like such a newbie, but this area of video editing is new to me and I want to do it right the first time.

How much will all of this cost me, and from what I've read in some other posts, am I totally screwed for getting this for Xmas..???!!!

Any information you can help me with is very appreciated, and i thank you all in advance! Any resources you can direct me to is also appreciated.

I guess that about covers my questions. Thanx so much!
Newbie Mac Mom

[SilentPanda]

If you want a laptop that has a DVD burner you have to get a PowerBook. Otherwise an eMac should be plenty sufficient as a desktop.

As for hard drive space for video editing... 30 gigs is about 2 1/2 hours of DV video. 60 gigs of space will let you edit video alright but more is better. You can always add an external firewire drive.

If you want to still use your analog camera to take video you will probably need some sort of DV bridge. I use this one (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=T4910LL/A) but it's really up to you which one you get of course. I'd highly recommend getting a DV camera if you can afford it. A decent one will probably run you roughly $500 but of course you can pay more and more and more. But for "just for fun" videos $500-$600 should do the trick.

Up through Dec. 27th, if you buy a Mac you can get Final Cut Express for $99. I'd reccommend that program myself. It's definitely more than iMovie and you probably won't use most of the features in Final Cut Pro 4.

[jermsmingy]

I know the new ibooks are g4's but when you compare them to the 12 inch powerbook configured the same way the 12 inch powerbook is worth the extra 100 bucks.

Ideally the 15inch powerbook is more suited for video editing as the larger screen is very useful. If you went with the low end 15inch and got 1 512 ddr ram and upgraded to the faster hd 5400rpm. the computer would be around $2150 with your son's student discount.

Next you need software. imovie is a good start but is so simple it can be annoying. It is good for beginners, I personally use final cut express
http://www.apple.com/finalcutexpress/
It is a little harder, but if you watch the videos at the link I posted it is really easy to get started.

I would buy the computer. Let your son do the editing on imovie for a while, until it outgrows his uses. There are a lot of limitations in imovie. I don't know how experienced your son is, but if he knows how to use premier then he needs final cut express.

All said and done, (if you already have a digital video camera) then you could get a 15 inch powerbook and final cut express with the student discount for under 2500.

If you don't go that route, go with the imac and you could do that for under 2000. It has a faster hard drive and the faster processor.

I know I was not happy using my ibook for video editing.

[sigamy]

Hi,

You are kind of in a tough spot with the iBook. Apple just recently upgraded the iBook to a G4 processor which really, really helps with video editing. Plus, a G4 is pretty much required for rendering the video to DVD.

That is where your problem lies. Apple did not add the Superdrive (DVD burner) to the iBook. It is not even an option. You can get a firewire external DVD burner but then you will not be able to use iDVD because iDVD only works with internal Superdrives. That means you will have to purchase another DVD authoring app. I think Toast 6 does DVD authoring and it is around $80. Or you could step up to DVD Studio Pro, which is big bucks and probably overkill for a teenager.

So, you really need to determine:
1. Is a laptop the way to go?
2. Do we need DVD burning in the laptop?

If you answer yes to both I wouldn't look at the iBook.

So now you have to look at either the 12" or 15" Powerbook. The 12" w/ Superdrive is $1800, 15" w/ Superdrive is
$2600.

Apple's online store Special Deals section has previous generation refurbished 12" PowerBook with Superdrive for $1399. This is not a bad deal at all. The only real knocks on this machine are its lack of a DVI output and that it runs a bit hot and it may be limited to 640mb RAM, I'm not sure.

If you don't need the laptop you will be fine any Mac desktop. Get at least a 1ghz processor and max out the RAM (don't buy RAM from Apple though). The Special Deals page has brand new, previous generation eMacs with Superdrive for $1099! Nice deal.

With any of the PowerBooks, eMac or iMac you get iDVD included.

iMovie is also free with all these machines, or you can upgrade to Final Cut Express for $99 if you buy it with a new Mac. Premiere is no longer being developed for the Mac so you may want to move away from it. But if it works, it works. iMovie is great for beginners but he may outgrow it eventually.

Have him check out htt://www.fxhome.com for some great special effects software. This is a great hobby for kids and you may just be setting him foward in a career. Great gift, mom.

[obeygiant]

17in iMac
200 GB external firewire drive
21in TV/Monitor
Canon GL2
Final Cut Pro
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Photoshop
Adobe Illustrator
(maybe a epson scanner)

If that kid wants to make movies, he'll be fine with this.

[Dont Hurt Me]

emac with superdrive is the machine if he doesnt need the portability,shoot in the field edit at home, this machine will be stong enough,its cheap enough,its very durable which is what you need for kids & adults,has a great monitor and good built in speakers. this is a Mac best buy in my opinion and can do eveything he needs at the moment. so a emac and plan on getting more ram for editing. my 2 cents

[Wes]

Originally posted by obeygiant
17in iMac($1,799.00)
200 GB external firewire drive($250.00: 160 gig seagate)
21in TV/Monitor (Ca $150)
Canon GL2 ($2278.94 )
Final Cut Pro ($99)
Adobe After Effects ($699.00)
Adobe Photoshop ($649.00)
Adobe Illustrator ($499.00)
(maybe a epson scanner)

If that kid wants to make movies, he'll be fine with this.


$6423.94


:o:o


He better be a Spielberg.

[LethalWolfe]

Don't buy a laptop unless you have to. Laptops and video editing don't go hand in hand unless you *have* to have a moblie editing setup. The eMac w/superdrive is probably the best deal. And you might as well get Final Cut Express at the $99 discount price (normaly it's $299). If you son has no experience w/editing I'd let him use iMovie first and then once he gets used to editing and starts hitting walls give him FCE. Starting off w/FCE might be confusing and intemidateing<sp?> for someone who's never cut video before.

And for a analog/digital converter I would suggest this Canopus ADVC-100 (http://www.canopus.us/US/products/advc-100/pm_advc-100.asp). It's a bit more expensive than the Dazzle DVBridge, but it's a much more reliable product.


You'll also want to get an external FW harddrive. Capturing movies and editing them on the same HDD is a no-no. ;) Make sure the FW enclosure is using the Oxford 911 chipset, and I wouldn't go any smaller than a 120gig HDD (7200RPM of course). Also, most people suggest getting a HDD that has an 8meg cache over the 2meg cache for FW HDDs. If you do a search for Firewire HDDs in the forums you'll find a handfull of recent threads about them.


Lethal

[Datazoid]

Originally posted by Wes
Originally posted by obeygiant
17in iMac($1,799.00)
200 GB external firewire drive($250.00: 160 gig seagate)
21in TV/Monitor (Ca $150)
Canon GL2 ($2278.94 )
Final Cut Pro ($99)
Adobe After Effects ($699.00)
Adobe Photoshop ($649.00)
Adobe Illustrator ($499.00)
(maybe a epson scanner)

If that kid wants to make movies, he'll be fine with this.


$6423.94


:o:o


He better be a Spielberg.

You got there before I did...*sighs*.
[rant mode] (This post is not intended to reflect on the original poster, as I cannot infer anything about their financial status, but is merely a release of my own frustrations). I notice this trend frequently on Mac boards, people seem to assume that everybody's pockets are as deep as their own, which can appear quite elitist and exclusionary to those of us who cannot simply drop a sum of money similar to the amount above on a whim. Guess what: Not all Mac users live in Beverly Hills/Newport/etc! Seriously! I mean, judging by many people who post on these sites (I have 12 computers in my house! I just bought the new Dual G5 with 2 HD Cinema Displays the day after it came out! etc.) I can see how that conclusion might be reached. But really, many of us are just average folk who are looking for a better computing experience. And people wonder WHY PC users so often comment on the elitism of Mac users. Even when discussing purchasing PC's on this site, people suggest only the highest, most expensive (Dell/HP/Compaq/Gateway SUCK), even though they are "fine" for most users. Even when people ask about speaker systems of all things...rather than suggesting an "off-the-shelf" 2 or 4 speaker system, they debate the merits of Bose vs Bang & Olufsen, amongst other "Brands" that I had never even heard of before I came here. I also seem to remember a thread that asked for suggestions for software for somebody new to the Mac, and receiving suggestions such as Maya, Shake, and Combustion! Even considering the original poster's question, I know that if I had asked something similar, an answer suggesting I spend $6000 would probably make me look elsewhere for answers, probably away from the Mac scene. Of course, if somebody was seriously considering this as a profession, had done some amateur work already, and felt ready to take a step up, then of course such a suggestion might be reasonable. But it just seems like everybody here (and on other boards) want people to get 10X more than what they need....and it gets to be too much.
[/rant mode]

I apologize that I was unable to add anything constructive to this discussion, and I do realize that the original suggestion was not intended to be harmful or exclusionary, and hope that the poster (obeygiant) does not take this personally. Again, it is not intended as a flame, simply a release of my own frustrations. But, batikdruid, please do not think that the system suggested by obeygiant is actually necessary...people here become far too overzealous about their recommendations...I wouldn't be surprised to see somebody recommend a PowerMac Dual G5 with 2 HD Cinema Display monitors somewhere in this thread as well....just pay attention to the posts that seem sensible and ignore those that exceed what is reasonable.

[obeygiant]

Originally posted by Wes


$6423.94


:o:o


He better be a Spielberg.

LOL. You're right about the prices. He could probably cut out After effects and Illustrator and save those until next christmas. But you may be able to get educational prices on some of that stuff which might bring the totals down around 3750 or something. I would get the edu FCP for 300 instead of FCPE.

[jayscheuerle]

And he can buy whatever he wants on his own.

Whatever he gets, that's a heckuva huge Xmas gift. Not as bad as next year when he's 16 and wants a car...

No matter what you spoil him with, he should be happy as heck. That's a very generous gift. If my daughter asked for that, I'd giftwrap a giant "HA!HA!HA!" to stick under the tree.. :D

[obeygiant]

edu prices

1699 for 17 iMac
399 for Adobe CS
99 for FCPE
250 for seagate firewire drive
2447 total

200 tv/monitor
2000 GL2
or
1039 for DCR-PC120BT sony


4647 with the GL2

3686 with the DCR-PC120BT

The guy did ask a bunch of apple heads so we're going to give him apple prices. Macs arent cheap but they are the best for this sort of thing in my opinion. 3686 is not that bad oof an investment in my kids future.

[batikdruid]

Yikes! LOL and THANKS for the comments about price. YAH I love my son, but ....~~!! I was typing my first response (below) and then saw the updated remarks! No, I'm thinking of the MAX $1500 area and if that can't be done and hopefully closer to $1200, he'll have to learn it latah. LOL about the car next year! You're right of course!! And I guess I'll have to get a converter program or whatever, so back to $1500.

I had pretty much not thought about obeygiant's suggestions though, as I already have Photoshop, Illustrator and and Epson scanner! And like I mentioned Premiere, but haven't used it.

At the moment I'm liking the emac on the apple site w/80 gig hd, 1 ghz proc., but w/256 RAM. What extra RAM might I consider buying and where (you sugg. not to buy apple's), and is it as easy to install as a pc?

I hate SLOW -- and it will frustrate him I'm sure editing video if its slow. But that goes back to the processor right?

I'm familiar w/ exterior drives but what is Firewire?
Do I still need external drive w/80 gigs???
What is DVI? Prob input? like direct from camera?

Thanks for the info - I hope to check back tomorrow and find out more.
1. Yes, i am sure we will eventually get a digital vid camera, just still have the old one - we have 5 yrs of son's football on it and thats what he wants to make, "jared highlight films" no doubt!

QUES: Does Premiere 6.0 still work in macs?

Whats the biggest diff between imac and emac? Besides looks?

I'm really leaning toward imac or emac... what is a combo drive vs . the superdrive?

I can't tell you how excited I am to have had you nice people get me right to the nitty gritty - I LIKE that!! I hate to futz around and especially when I am clueless on something... times a'wastin' and I need to decide what to do and if I can do it...

Thanks so much! I will check back in again tomorrow and I will probably think of other things I forgot to ask!

You all are AWESOME!

[crap freakboy]

if on a 'normal budget' I'd personally get emac...either combo or dvdr, and a cheap dv camera with firewire in/out. Let your son make do with imovie, its really a sound idea creatively to use the basics rather than use hundreds of transistions/effects instead of his imagination.
"garbage in, garbage out."
This way, if he is isn't the next Kubrick/Eisenstein at film-making you havent spend $6000+ on a mac for surfing and emailing. I use a imacdv g3 400 running osX, and it does editing fine so the emac would more than enough. 13 GB of hardrive equals roughly 1 hour of footage, so 80GB is plenty. good luck

[crap freakboy]

oh...forgot ...get more Ram, as much as you can afford, but NOT from the APPLE store try http://www.crucial.com and compare prices. The difference is shocking and you WILL be able to install it, no worries.

[LethalWolfe]

obeygiant,

Do you use a shotgun to swat flies over at your place? ;)

What you suggested would be good for a begining indi-film maker or event videographer but is way overkill for a 15yr old that's curious about movies and editing. Start him out w/the iApps, if he likes what he's doing then he can move onto bigger and better things. And if he doesn't like it all that much you haven't dropped a truck load on software that's just going to collect dust.

Oh, and FWIW Premiere has a horrible interface and, hell, I would almust buy you a copy of FCE and mail it to you just so I know your child wouldn't have to be subjected to tromping thru Premiere's GUI. ;)


Lethal

[Wes]

Originally posted by obeygiant
edu prices
.... yada yada yada.


Contrary to belief (and logic) people who are not teachers (k-12), work for a university, or are students at a university, can not get Edu discount.

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by Wes
Contrary to belief (and logic) people who are not teachers (k-12), work for a university, or are students at a university, can not get Edu discount.
To quote from here (http://www.apple.com/uk/education/howtobuy/)

Not only are all education institutions able to qualify for discounted education prices, but academic staff in schools, colleges and universities also qualify. Moreover, all students in full or part-time higher or further education may purchase any Apple product from Apple at the discounted education price.


That sounds pretty generous. Anyone who's doing a PART-TIME FURTHER EDUCATION course gets a discount. That includes a lot of the UK population. Even me...:D

The US may be different...YMMV

[batikdruid]

well that's interesting to consider anyway. If I can put it in my son's name somehow without him knowing its coming....!!??

I'm not averse to 'pretending'.

Newbie Mac Mom



**And actually, I just checked thru Apple's site, and it said nothing about students being able to get a discount, just educators, staff and school board members!!

[sigamy]

You should be able to get a nice setup for $1500 now that you are considering desktops.

Either the eMac or iMac will be a great choice. As for differences between these two, it mainly is in the look of the machine. I think there are some differences in the types of memory each machine takes and in the video card used. The prior generation eMac actually had better performance than the iMac but I think the new 1.25Ghz iMac is now faster.

As others have mentioned, the eMac will be a more durable machine around kids. The iMac's flat screen is a bit delicate.

Neither of these machines should feel slow. Especially if you max out the RAM. I'm running on a 1Ghz iMac with only 256mb RAM and I have no problems. As said above, get the RAM from http://www.crucial.com or another 3rd party vendor.

Firewire is a type of connection between a device and the computer--similar to USB. USB 1.1 can only transfer data at 12mbps, much too slow for transfering video. Firewire can do 400mbps. USB 2.0 can do 480, I think. Anyway, desktop Macs come with 2 Firewire ports. This is how you connect a MiniDV camcorders to the Mac. You can also buy external Firewire hard drives. It is always good to store your video on a separate hard drive. When he is just starting out you can probably get by using the internal hard drive, but if he gets even a little bit serious you will need an external hard drive. Video takes up a lot of space so get a big and fast hard drive.

DVI is a connection from a computer to a digital monitor. The Apple LCDs all have DVI connectors. So, that older 12" Powerbook that I mentioned before does not have a DVI port. So if someday you wanted to get an Apple LCD you would not be able to connect the two directly via the digital connection. This is not an issue at all on the eMac or iMac because the display is built in to the computer.

Combo drive can burn CDs and play DVDs. It can not burn DVDs.

Superdrive can do everything--burn CDs and DVDs. Apple typically supports the DVD-R standard. Come back after you buy and we can help you with that mess.

If you want to create DVDs of his movies you need the Superdrive.


Good luck.

[jayscheuerle]

The eMac will give you better resolution than the 15" iMac, which is important for palette-heavy video apps...

[Coca-Cola]

eMac, iMovie, firewire DV camcorder, and a .mac account. .mac is really nice for getting your work seen by people. Check out http://www.dotmac.info/index.html for some short films made on macs. I think your son could get a lot out of the simplicity of iMovie. Good job doing this for him too. This will really be a good learning tool and skill builder.

[manitoubalck]

Originally posted by batikdruid
I know you're going to tell me that macs are way better than pcs, so I won't even ask! LOL

Bot all of us believe that, I'm not sure where you live so all prices will be in $AUD

Donot buy an iMac for video editing, because:
a) they are over priced
b) lackluster preformace doller for doller vs a PC
c) lack a major cooling component (a fan)
d) hence run very hot when doing taking opperations
e) no expand ablity.
f) you proabley still use a floppy disk.

iMac 17" $3200AUD
17-inch widescreen LCD
1.25GHz PowerPC G4
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
64MB DDR video memory
256MB DDR333 SDRAM
80GB Ultra ATA hard drive
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K V.92 internal modem
Apple Pro Speakers
AirPort Extreme Ready
Bluetooth Option

A PC priced off a local stores website (instore prices are lower)
CD-BURNER ASUS 52X24X52
DVD BURNER NEC4x DVD+/--R/RW w/software
AOPEN HQ48A 300WATT MIDI CASE
AMD XP3000+ Barton core 333FSB
WD 200GB 7200rpm JD 8Mb Cache S-ATA
x2 DDR RAM 512MB PC2700 333
WEB EXCEL 56K EXTERNAL MODEM
BenQ TFT 17in FP767S (Black or Beige)
GIGABYTE GA-7N400PRO
ATI SAPPHIRE RADEON 9600 Pro
floppydisk drive

Total $3160AUD (priced on www.diyit.com.au instore prices are lower)
Now this will out perform most macs on the market today. garenteed.

I use Vegas 4.0 (sonic Foundary) and After FX (Adobe) to edit video on PC and they run just fine. If I had $3G's to blow on a computer it wouldn't be on an iMac that's for sure.

I am a fan of AMD you could also price a P4 3.06 GHz 800FSB for the same money, with slightly less RAM.

[manitoubalck]

I forgot 1 thing, getting boot leg programs for PC is so easy, so no need to factor in the cost of buying editing software.

[Phelark]

Woah, PC guy. She wants a Mac, she gets a Mac. To avoid pointless flaming and confusion, retract your statement for the good of humanity. Plus, she's a newbie. Don't scare her.

Likely Response: OMG IM L33T! MACS SUX AN R 4 NOOBIES.

Seriously. Leave the prejudice at Slashdot.

Wow. Now you're supporting software piracy? Troll.

[Coca-Cola]

Well Manti...., He said he wanted his son to actually make movies. Not get a degree in accounting and parts managment. Geez. What a mess.

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by manitoubalck
Bot all of us believe that, I'm not sure where you live so all prices will be in $AUD

Donot buy an iMac for video editing, because:
a) they are over priced
b) lackluster preformace doller for doller vs a PC
c) lack a major cooling component (a fan)
d) hence run very hot when doing taking opperations
e) no expand ablity.
f) you proabley still use a floppy disk.

iMac 17" $3200AUD
17-inch widescreen LCD
1.25GHz PowerPC G4
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
64MB DDR video memory
256MB DDR333 SDRAM
80GB Ultra ATA hard drive
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K V.92 internal modem
Apple Pro Speakers
AirPort Extreme Ready
Bluetooth Option

A PC priced off a local stores website (instore prices are lower)
CD-BURNER ASUS 52X24X52
DVD BURNER NEC4x DVD+/--R/RW w/software
AOPEN HQ48A 300WATT MIDI CASE
AMD XP3000+ Barton core 333FSB
WD 200GB 7200rpm JD 8Mb Cache S-ATA
x2 DDR RAM 512MB PC2700 333
WEB EXCEL 56K EXTERNAL MODEM
BenQ TFT 17in FP767S (Black or Beige)
GIGABYTE GA-7N400PRO
ATI SAPPHIRE RADEON 9600 Pro
floppydisk drive

Total $3160AUD (priced on www.diyit.com.au instore prices are lower)
Now this will out perform most macs on the market today. garenteed.

I use Vegas 4.0 (sonic Foundary) and After FX (Adobe) to edit video on PC and they run just fine. If I had $3G's to blow on a computer it wouldn't be on an iMac that's for sure.

I am a fan of AMD you could also price a P4 3.06 GHz 800FSB for the same money, with slightly less RAM.


She pointed avioded this topic because she already decided she wanted a Mac so why do you have to bring it up when you know it's gonna hijack the thread? And just incase you don't realize this hardware speed, while always wanted, is not the most important aspect for an NLE.


Lethal

[solvs]

You can edit DV on a PC. I have. But, do you really want to? Since you came here, I'm guessing you don't.

1 GHz Combo eMac ~ $800 (cheaper if refurb)
512 MB RAM (3rd party, easy to put in) ~ $100
(Though some places will give you free or cheap RAM upgrades)
External FireWire Hard Drive ~ $200
DV camcorder (instead of analog converter) ~ $300-$400
FCExpress (if you want it, which I would suggest) - $99
-
Total = $1500-$1600 (plus tax).

Knowing that Mom is cool enough to buy you a Mac... priceless.

[QCassidy352]

Originally posted by solvs
You can edit DV on a PC. I have. But, do you really want to? Since you came here, I'm guessing you don't.

1 GHz Combo eMac ~ $800 (cheaper if refurb)
512 MB RAM (3rd party, easy to put in) ~ $100
(Though some places will give you free or cheap RAM upgrades)
External FireWire Hard Drive ~ $200
DV camcorder (instead of analog converter) ~ $300-$400
FCExpress (if you want it, which I would suggest) - $99
-
Total = $1500-$1600 (plus tax).

Knowing that Mom is cool enough to buy you a Mac... priceless.

Not a bad list. However, I'd go with this:

1 Ghz superdrive emac - $1100
Custom build the hard drive for the 160 GB model - $100
512 MB more RAM from crucial (for a total of 768) - $100
Final Cut Express - $100

Total: $1400 + tax (5%) = $1470

The only thing I've left out is a bridge for your current camera because I don't know what that costs.

Superdrive will be important for making videos. With the 160 GB internal drive, your son won't need an external drive for quite some time.

Ideally, you may be able to find an online store (like macmall.com, for example) that will give you the RAM for free, won't even charge sales tax, and will let you custom build the hard drive up to 160 GB. That way, even with the installation fee on your "free" RAM, you end up saving ~$130, bringing your total to $1340.

And you would have a 1 Ghz G4 with superdrive, 160 GB hard drive, 768 RAM, and Final Cut Express. Just my suggestion.

edit: oh, and one more thing. www.macspeedzone.com has a great buyers guide that compares what is currently being offered by online mac resellers. They will tell you who charges tax, who charges shipping, and what extras each online store offers. Great site - check it out!

[leet1]

If your shopping for a DV camcorder for a low price, go with Samsung, they are great :D I have an SCD-80 that I got last christmas and its been awsome. Also, it was only $300 and has all the great features <night vision, effects, 2.5inch screen, and a lot more.>

Heres a list of their models. http://www.samsung.com/Products/Camcorder/index.htm

[radhak]

Originally posted by batikdruid
well that's interesting to consider anyway. If I can put it in my son's name somehow without him knowing its coming....!!??

I'm not averse to 'pretending'.



i would say don't even bother with the edu discount. if you purchase from an online reseller like MacZone etc, you'd forego the taxes, the shipping could be cheaper, and you could get some freebies like extra RAM (and maybe even some software discounted deeply). more than compensates for the edu discount Apple would give you.

and yes, imho an emac is the best option for you.

btw, you mentioned a couple of times that you had some software already like Premiere etc, and if my guess is right you are talking Windows version. if so, they won't work on the mac. you'd need to buy the mac versions, in which case the Final Cut Express at a discount would be a cheaper option. (or maybe Adobe might cut you a break for swapping out the versions)

[manitoubalck]

Originally posted by Phelark
Woah, PC guy. She wants a Mac, she gets a Mac. To avoid pointless flaming and confusion, retract your statement for the good of humanity. Plus, she's a newbie. Don't scare her.

Likely Response: OMG IM L33T! MACS SUX AN R 4 NOOBIES.

Seriously. Leave the prejudice at Slashdot.

Wow. Now you're supporting software piracy? Troll.

I am a Very Very poor Uni student so how else do you think I got most of the programs I use.

I just told it like it is, no smoke and mirrors just the facts. If you could honestly believe that the iMac for $3200AUD is better than the PC machine listed for lees money then I pitty you. I'm not a troll, and I'm not fishing just telling the truth.

Leet has camed down quite a bit since his first 50 posts in 2 days, and even made a constructive comment on this thread about a samsung DV cam.

[ethernet76]

Get an eMac with a Superdrive. Don't bother with the software yet. The problem with this type of gift though is he going to stick with it? The computer will get use regaurdless if he sticks with making movies. However, 1500 dollar software packages not so much. iMovie is plenty for beginners, and you can consider upgrading later. I think iDVD is an editor too when you get a superdrive equiped emac, but i've only used iMovie.

As for a camera get a decent but cheap one. Cnet seems to like Canon ZR65MC ($350).

[QCassidy352]

Originally posted by ethernet76
Get an eMac with a Superdrive. Don't bother with the software yet. The problem with this type of gift though is he going to stick with it? The computer will get use regaurdless if he sticks with making movies. However, 1500 dollar software packages not so much. iMovie is plenty for beginners, and you can consider upgrading later.

well, we're not talking about $1500 software. We're talking about $99 software. And yes, it's true that he might get bored with movie making, but at the same time, you wouldn't want him to give it up because he finds imovie too frustrating. I think final cut express is a nice compromise - plenty for him to start with, but at a very reasonable price.

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by manitoubalck
I am a Very Very poor Uni student so how else do you think I got most of the programs I use.

I just told it like it is, no smoke and mirrors just the facts. If you could honestly believe that the iMac for $3200AUD is better than the PC machine listed for lees money then I pitty you. I'm not a troll, and I'm not fishing just telling the truth.

Leet has camed down quite a bit since his first 50 posts in 2 days, and even made a constructive comment on this thread about a samsung DV cam.


Been there, done that, got into the real world, bought a PowerMac. ;)

batikdruid came in here asking for advice about which Mac to get for her son who wants to do some video editing. She didn't ask which platfrom is better (in fact she specifcally tried to aviod that topic). When I'm on a PC forum and someone asks advice about a PC editing solution I don't start trashing PCs and throw pro-Mac crap at them. I try and help them. I give them advice. I tell them what I would do if I was building/buying a PC based editing solution based on what their needs are and what their skill level is.

Is the PC you spec'ed faster? Yes. Is it better? In this situation I'd say no. You've got a novice who wants to mess around w/some home movies right now and make a hi-lite vhs/dvd of his football games. And you want to toss Vegas and AE at him? iMovie and iDVD are geared exactly for people like her son and are so incredibly well thought out and easy to use their are damn near staggering in their simplicity. And if he enjoys doing it and outgrows iMovie that's great. He can move on to FCE or FCP. I'd much rather him have fun w/iMovie and out grow it then get bogged down in a program that's over his head and stop making videos because he's not having fun doing it.


Lethal

EDIT: ethernet76, iMovie is a video editing app, iDVD is a DVD authoring app. Once you make the video in the editing you import into the authoring app that is where you make your DVD menu's and everything.

[ethernet76]

Originally posted by QCassidy352
well, we're not talking about $1500 software. We're talking about $99 software. And yes, it's true that he might get bored with movie making, but at the same time, you wouldn't want him to give it up because he finds imovie too frustrating. I think final cut express is a nice compromise - plenty for him to start with, but at a very reasonable price.

iMovie is what my highschool used. And i find it's still used in college in beginning movie courses.

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by ethernet76
iMovie is what my highschool used. And i find it's still used in college in beginning movie courses.

I think that's a very good idea. It allows instructors to teach students about editing, about storytelling, and worry less about teaching them about software (save that for high level classes).


Lethal

[manitoubalck]

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
Been there, done that, got into the real world, bought a PowerMac. ;)

batikdruid came in here asking for advice about which Mac to get for her son who wants to do some video editing. She didn't ask which platfrom is better (in fact she specifcally tried to aviod that topic). When I'm on a PC forum and someone asks advice about a PC editing solution I don't start trashing PCs and throw pro-Mac crap at them. I try and help them. I give them advice. I tell them what I would do if I was building/buying a PC based editing solution based on what their needs are and what their skill level is.

Is the PC you spec'ed faster? Yes. Is it better? In this situation I'd say no. You've got a novice who wants to mess around w/some home movies right now and make a hi-lite vhs/dvd of his football games. And you want to toss Vegas and AE at him? iMovie and iDVD are geared exactly for people like her son and are so incredibly well thought out and easy to use their are damn near staggering in their simplicity. And if he enjoys doing it and outgrows iMovie that's great. He can move on to FCE or FCP. I'd much rather him have fun w/iMovie and out grow it then get bogged down in a program that's over his head and stop making videos because he's not having fun doing it.


Lethal

EDIT: ethernet76, iMovie is a video editing app, iDVD is a DVD authoring app. Once you make the video in the editing you import into the authoring app that is where you make your DVD menu's and everything.

'Son wants to make movies-what do I need!What should i get?'
Is the title of this tread not I have the $$$ what overpriced mac can I buy for amature video editing. Vegas 4.0 and DVD Architect 1.0 are really straight forward to use and link fantastically with Sound Forge to add sound effects.
I've never used FCE so I can't comment, but After FX is quite advanced, so I see your point there. Each platform has its pros and cons, and in this situation AMD/intel come out on top.

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by manitoubalck
'Son wants to make movies-what do I need!What should i get?'
Is the title of this tread not I have the $$$ what overpriced mac can I buy for amature video editing. Vegas 4.0 and DVD Architect 1.0 are really straight forward to use and link fantastically with Sound Forge to add sound effects.
I've never used FCE so I can't comment, but After FX is quite advanced, so I see your point there. Each platform has its pros and cons, and in this situation AMD/intel come out on top.
Don't you think it's a bit sad that you obviously think macs are overpriced and that your beloved PCs are much better YET you hang around on mac discussion forums banging on about it. This is far from the first time you've repeated the same tired mantra.

I have owned several PC's all built by myself and I have built several for other people - if they decide they definitely want a PC and for some folks it IS the right answer. Personally I no longer own any PC hardware. I own a powermac and an ibook and I'm actually enjoying USING it rather than spending time ****ing about installing new bits of hardware then figuring why it doesn't work like it should.

BTW FWIW it is also pretty damn easy to get all the mac software you'd want on bittorrent as well but perhaps some people would rather be legal?

[sigamy]

Not to confuse you even more, but MCE is now putting 2x DVD burners in the G4 iBook.

$1299 for G4 iBook with Superdrive. Sweet. You need to make sure that it is compatible with iDVD though.

http://www.mcetech.com/pr/pr20031117ibookg4dvdrw.pdf

[jayscheuerle]

Originally posted by manitoubalck
If you could honestly believe that the iMac for $3200AUD is better than the PC machine listed for less money then I pity you.

It is better if you want to run Mac OSX.

Your PC may be stronger under the hood, but the Mac's got a lot nicer interior... :cool:

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by manitoubalck
'Son wants to make movies-what do I need!What should i get?'
Is the title of this tread not I have the $$$ what overpriced mac can I buy for amature video editing. Vegas 4.0 and DVD Architect 1.0 are really straight forward to use and link fantastically with Sound Forge to add sound effects.
I've never used FCE so I can't comment, but After FX is quite advanced, so I see your point there. Each platform has its pros and cons, and in this situation AMD/intel come out on top.


Did you try reading the first post? Did you miss the part where she said she wanted a Mac, not a PC? :rolleyes:

If you have anything constructive to say I'd love to hear it (I think we all have gotten the picture that you think the best Xmas present for her kid would be a DIY PC running pirated software). If you want keep dropping flamebait and, er, *discussing* which platform is better and why start another thread. There's no reason to hijack this one.


Lethal

[dabirdwell]

The new 20" iMac looks like a Final Cut Express user's *dream*

i think so anyway

[batikdruid]

Thank you everyone for all of your suggestions and ideas. Don't mean to get everyone mad at each other - I know well the feelings between macs and bills, that's why I said I wasn't going there.

I can figure out pretty well on my own a PC that will do what I want, (as I am by no means a "newbie" ) with exceptions of dvd burning, and SPEED of rendering, etc. Truly am sick of waiting around for stuff - direct tv channels, email downloads, websites coming up etc etc etc.

I appreciate especially the consideration of my son's age and interest. He's very intelligent and creative - he/we've been making videos with the ol' analog to vhs for YEARS for many of his school projects. When he has the option, he always opts for a video presentation - so he's into it. But it would be good to start easy but have a more advanced option available SOON (ie:FCE) - as he's the type of kid he'll have the thing figured out by the end of the first week, guaranteed.

Do I think he'll make it a career? Maybe not, but maybe so - his cousin just made an indy horror movie that just won best at Woods Hole, but at the least, I think he'll have a fun hobby he can do his whole life. (uhh....not of the Paris HIlton kind, I am sure...*hands praying*).

The reason I am here as HE has been asking for a Mac for awhile. They have them at his school and he thinks they are "so cool".
So there you have it!

I am thinking the emacs are going to be "so cool" too - if I can get the dh on board for about $1400.... nyuk nyuk

No problemo, right!!??

Thanks again!!!!! I feel much more educated about this whole thing and its only a day or so later! I feel like I have some "ammo" to go on now.

[batikdruid]

thinking...thinking....

Say I bought a set top dvd player/burner. Could i make dvds from the analog camera or vhs and then import them to the emac?

Thinking of a way to avert the analog converter.... Going to be buying a dvd player/maybe burner and digital camcorder at some point in the future anyway... I mean, can't stay in the dark ages forever.. once we save up some more cash after the emac and the car... (!)

Does this make sense at all or.... ?? just wondering

Also, on MacZone they have a
eMac G4/1GHz 17in CRT Super w/FREE 256MB Memory
that free ram prob isn't in addition to the regular ram,huh?

link is here:http://www.maczone.com/cgi-bin/zones/site/product/index.html?id=523770&partner_id=-12769

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by batikdruid
thinking...thinking....

Say I bought a set top dvd player/burner. Could i make dvds from the analog camera or vhs and then import them to the emac?

Thinking of a way to avert the analog converter.... Going to be buying a dvd player/maybe burner and digital camcorder at some point in the future anyway... I mean, can't stay in the dark ages forever.. once we save up some more cash after the emac and the car... (!)

Does this make sense at all or.... ?? just wondering

Also, on MacZone they have a
eMac G4/1GHz 17in CRT Super w/FREE 256MB Memory
that free ram prob isn't in addition to the regular ram,huh?

link is here:http://www.maczone.com/cgi-bin/zones/site/product/index.html?id=523770&partner_id=-12769

I don't suggest going from VHS->DVD->DV(eMac)->DVD. That is a whole lotta recompression and it's going to kill yer footage. Plus, most of the set top DVD burners I've seen aren't very good unless you get into the $500 or $600 dollar range. We just got a really, really sweet Panasonic set top burner here at work but it cost like $800. :eek: Unforunetly you'll need a converter (either a stand alone or a DV camera that allows pass thru). Now, Canopus does make a product, the ADVC-50, that I believe is $199 (as opposed to the $200 of the ADVC-100). The difference is the ADVC-50 is analog input *only.* So the only way to get videos off of the eMac would be DVD. But, if you had a set top DVD player you could burn a DVD from the eMac, put it into the player and record it onto VHS if need be. The only limitation there is that iDVD woun't do projects longer than 90minutes. Also, iDVD has 2 automatic compression settings based on length. If the project is under 1hr it gets a lower compression setting (higher quality video) if it is over 1hr it gets a higher compression setting (lower quality video).


Lethal

[manitoubalck]

If your set on a mac which it sounds like your are go for a Power Mac G4, Since you can keep the screen and add all kinds of goodies on the inside like heaps of RAM, Better graphics card, Pci cards, 4 HDD's, 2nd optical drive, I thinks thats all, and there gettinng quite cheap because they are in some sort of run out, because they are no longer the flagship model.

If I were to buy a mac today it would be a twin PM G4 1.25, Best value for money from apple at this time.

Sorry for getting you guys in a ster, just wanted to show the other side of the story.

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by manitoubalck
If your set on a mac which it sounds like your are go for a Power Mac G4, Since you can keep the screen and add all kinds of goodies on the inside like heaps of RAM, Better graphics card, Pci cards, 4 HDD's, 2nd optical drive, I thinks thats all, and there gettinng quite cheap because they are in some sort of run out, because they are no longer the flagship model.

If I were to buy a mac today it would be a twin PM G4 1.25, Best value for money from apple at this time.

Sorry for getting you guys in a ster, just wanted to show the other side of the story.


Holy crap that's a good idea. I completely forgot about the "old" G4 towers. Heck, you could even look at a refurb and that would shave a lil' more off the price. IIRC correctly refurbs are sent back to Apple to get check out and are supported as "like new" machines (even qualifying for apple care). Where as "used" machines recieve no such perks. So if you buy previously owned go "refurb" not "used."

manitoubalck, I appriciate you presenting a different point of view. You just came off a bit heavy handed, especially sense she stated up front she didn't want a PC. Intent was good, execution was a bit rusty though. ;)


Lethal

[aethier]

Hmm, i have a 15 inchALbook, and when i purchased it i didn't really care for video editing, then i was bored, so i filmed my dogs playing (rottweller, and an englsih mastive) and made a rather nice imovie out of it. now i really enjoy film making, me and my sister even started making a script for a movie we would like to submit to the toronto film festival, the thing is i have quickly surpased the limits of imovie. so i was wandering if i could use those upgrade coupons, which come with new macs, to get the 99 dollar final cut express deal?

aethjer

[bousozoku]

Originally posted by batikdruid
thinking...thinking....

Say I bought a set top dvd player/burner. Could i make dvds from the analog camera or vhs and then import them to the emac?

Thinking of a way to avert the analog converter.... Going to be buying a dvd player/maybe burner and digital camcorder at some point in the future anyway... I mean, can't stay in the dark ages forever.. once we save up some more cash after the emac and the car... (!)

Does this make sense at all or.... ?? just wondering...


Formac has an analog to DV converter with TV recording that's just been reduced in price to $299. From everything I've read, the Studio TVR is quite good. There is also the Studio DV, but they don't list a price now so it may have been discontinued. Here's the website link: http://www.formac.com

I think anything else would just lead to a great deal of frustration as the work would lose much of its original quality with all of the analog noise and compression.

[manitoubalck]

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
Holy crap that's a good idea. I completely forgot about the "old" G4 towers. Heck, you could even look at a refurb and that would shave a lil' more off the price. IIRC correctly refurbs are sent back to Apple to get check out and are supported as "like new" machines (even qualifying for apple care). Where as "used" machines recieve no such perks. So if you buy previously owned go "refurb" not "used."

manitoubalck, I appriciate you presenting a different point of view. You just came off a bit heavy handed, especially sense she stated up front she didn't want a PC. Intent was good, execution was a bit rusty though. ;)


Lethal

Thankyou for your support A twin G4 1.25 costs $2800AUD with a combo drive and no screen. Buy that, and then buy an aftermarket DVD burner for $250AUD and an LCD and Bang you have a computer that ****s on an iMac any day. And is expandable to boot. Buy as little as possible from apple and you will notice the savings. (After market RAM especially)

Sorry for AUD prices it's all I have to work with.

[mod. edit - Don't circumvent the profanity filter.]

[2jaded2care]

I'd get a G4 desktop. More and faster for the money than a laptop.

In my limited observations, the Mac seems to be the platform of choice for professional video editing. (Ideally, your son will be proficient in both the Mac and PC worlds.)

Final Cut Pro and Avid appear to be the Non-Linear Editors of choice with the pros. Final Cut Express would be a good, "affordable" introduction.

People do edit video on PCs, but I suspect more people use PCs to steal movies, not make them. Unlike Mac users. ;-)

[batikdruid]

People do edit video on PCs, but I suspect more people use PCs to steal movies, not make them. Unlike Mac users. ;-)

Now, now. Really, I don't get into this type of stuff, it's a bit sophomoric and totally unfounded, I'm sure.

[Macmaniac]

I'm 17 years old and I edit movies too on an eMac at school. My advice go with the best eMac and get some RAM from crucial, an extra 512mb stick is nice. Its very easy to put the RAM in yourself you need a phillips head screwdriver and thats it.
As for editing FCP express would be a nice add on but have him start on iMovie, FCP can be very frustrating if u don't have someone who knows how to use it. If he gets beyond iMovie maybe suggest a one week FCP course at a local school or something.
Just messing around with FCP is not a good way to learn, I still find it challenging, simple things can be hard to do without the right help.
iMovie is fine for now, but get FCP for $99 because if he is seroius it will be great for him later:)

[Counterfit]

Originally posted by Macmaniac
I'm 17 years old and I edit movies too on an eMac at school. My advice go with the best eMac and get some RAM from crucial, an extra 512mb stick is nice. Its very easy to put the RAM in yourself you need a phillips head screwdriver and thats it.
As for editing FCP express would be a nice add on but have him start on iMovie, FCP can be very frustrating if u don't have someone who knows how to use it. If he gets beyond iMovie maybe suggest a one week FCP course at a local school or something.
Just messing around with FCP is not a good way to learn, I still find it challenging, simple things can be hard to do without the right help.
iMovie is fine for now, but get FCP for $99 because if he is seroius it will be great for him later:) I assume you mean FCE?


[mod. edit - Don't circumvent the profanity filter.] Go mods go!

[manitoubalck]

Originally posted by 2jaded2care
People do edit video on PCs, but I suspect more people use PCs to steal movies, not make them. Unlike Mac users. ;-)

I almost take offence to that:) but not quite, because while I use my PC to Edit and manipulate heaps of video's and still images, The good old K7 1GHz Athlon has spent it's fair share of time @ 100% encoding Div-X files from Ripped DVD's.