60% (UK) say Bush is a threat to World Peace

[Pinto]

link (http://icberkshire.icnetwork.co.uk/war/latest/content_objectid=13628129_method=full_siteid=50102_headline=-60--say-Bush-a-threat-to-world-peace-name_page.html)

The full extent of the low regard Britons have for George Bush has been revealed in a poll.


The US President was branded a threat to world peace by a clear majority, 60%, of those questioned by YouGov.


More than one in three, 37%, said Mr Bush was "stupid" while 33% called him "incoherent".


Only a minority saw positive characteristics in Mr Bush, with just 7% regarding him as a good world leader, 6% as articulate and 10% as intelligent.


The findings are published in The Sunday Times ahead of his state visit to Britain next week, the first by a US leader.

[Dont Hurt Me]

they are wrong they better start looking at the muslim population or at least those extemeist that are strapping bombs to themselves and cowardly bombing innocents like woman and children..cowards ! sad sad sad. the ones doing the killing is who they have to fear not the one's trying to stop it. 2,000 yrs whats new? same old ****!

[toontra]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
they are wrong

Oh really. Thanks for putting us straight.

Actually, we've heard more from Mr Bush than from any other US president in memory, so we've had plenty of opportunity to make up our own minds, thank you very much.

[Dont Hurt Me]

your welcome what has come out of the arab community in 2000 yrs other then oil? war, war, killing, and more . what has made america great is the lets get along and we can all prosper, the mid east well??? 2000 years after jesus said love one another they still dont just get it. still fighting and killing and what do the children inherit but more of the same crap!

[wwworry]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
they are wrong they better start looking at the muslim population or at least those extemeist that are strapping bombs to themselves and cowardly bombing innocents like woman and children..cowards ! sad sad sad. the ones doing the killing is who they have to fear not the one's trying to stop it. 2,000 yrs whats new? same old ****!

Why is that Bush supporters are so incoherent most of the time?

[Pinto]

you don't stop people strapping bombs to themselves, by interfering in their local politics, invading countries and developing new nuclear weapons.

That sort of behavior tends to have the opposite effect.

Do you think that the US is more or less liked thanks to your President's behavior?

[zimv20]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
they are wrong they better start looking at the muslim population or at least those extemeist that are strapping bombs to themselves and cowardly bombing innocents like woman and children..cowards ! sad sad sad. the ones doing the killing is who they have to fear not the one's trying to stop it. 2,000 yrs whats new? same old ****!

when ya get a sec, please let me know how this is on topic.

[tazo]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
your welcome what has come out of the arab community in 2000 yrs other then oil? war, war, killing, and more . what has made america great is the lets get along and we can all prosper, the mid east well??? 2000 years after jesus said love one another they still dont just get it. still fighting and killing and what do the children inherit but more of the same crap!

I agree 100%

Some of the only people left on this earth, killing people in the name of god.

[whocares]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
they are wrong they better start looking at the muslim population or at least those extemeist that are strapping bombs to themselves and cowardly bombing innocents like woman and children..cowards ! sad sad sad. the ones doing the killing is who they have to fear not the one's trying to stop it. 2,000 yrs whats new? same old ****!

I always swear to myself I won't get involved in P & W Discussions, but some truths need to come forth... I take it you get your info from Fox News?

Is what you call the muslim population bombings any worse than the US daily bombings of Iraq since the first Gulf war; worse than the US embargo on Iraq that only resulted in the rich Iraqi getting richer and the poor kids dying of starvation? Is it worse the effect on kids of Agent Oringe defoliant used in Vietnam? Is it worst than the atrocities many US supported dictators inflicted on their civil populations? FYI, Saddam was put where he was by guess who? The US!

You claim that in your country everyone is free to enjoy liberty and prosper. That is correct and I most aggree with you. What you don't see is that in order for you and your fellow Americans (as well as me and my fellow Europeans to a lesser extent) to prosper, many sufferings are indured by many people throughout the world. These people will include the children making Nike shoes in China for 2 cents an hour, the civilians bombed and slaughtered in Iraq to gain control over their Oil and to increase strategic US influence in the Middle East.

I do not aggree with terrorism and am also deeply shocked at attacks like those upon the WTC. What shocks me even more though, is the blindness of the media in repsect to many other things that go on in the World. WTC was all over TV for days; why weren't constant US and UK bombings on Iraq and their lot of civilian casualties ever shown in the ten years or so since the "end" of the Gulf war?

The question you need to ask yourself(selves) isn't how can you stop terrorism, but why are there terrorist attacks against you. I think one clear factor is the lousiest US foreign politics that we've seen for a long, long time.

Before your critize 2000 years of Muslim (and Christian) Civilization, go open some history, political science and geopolitics books. Then you may make some educated statements as to if people thinking Bush is right or wrong.

(retreats to deep underground bunker as he knows many people will not share his opinion; but hell, it's a free World ;))

[abdul]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
they are wrong they better start looking at the muslim population or at least those extemeist that are strapping bombs to themselves and cowardly bombing innocents like woman and children..cowards ! sad sad sad. the ones doing the killing is who they have to fear not the one's trying to stop it. 2,000 yrs whats new? same old ****!

extremists, being cowards. i may not favour the path they have taken, but anyone who has taken their life for something they believe in, or to make a point is not a coward in my eyes. for example you just try stabbing your arm...most likely you wont because you care for yourselve which is natural. they are taking their life and are fully aware, so therefore are a lot braver than you make out. the only way you may think of them as cowards is that they are taking their lifes and escaping the horrors of oppression.

sorry 2000years of what? american imperialism (i dont think so), islamic wars? muslims oppressed? muslims killing innocent women and children? u make no ******** sense. this is meant to be an educated forum, not a place for racist remarks, without any knowledge at all!!

your welcome what has come out of the arab community in 2000 yrs other then oil? war, war, killing, and more .

yeah what have the arabs given....uummm let me think....SCIENCE. do some ****in research before you talk crap. the arabs were the most medically advanced race on the planet before they were colonised. their ancient instruments can still be used today. they also were advanced in MATHS, including bringing the idea of algebra to europe. yes you may hate maths like me but without the arabs there wouldnt be a '0' so there goes digital and there goes our current numbering system.(indirectly computing thanks to advances in maths)...here comes roman numerals! Arabs also brough vast enchancement to engineering and waterworks which spain should still be greatful for!
2000years....you are really one dumb *******, islam is not that old! only 1400 years! and for some odd reason being the first modern civilisation that openly allowed women to enter parliament and give them rights which Christian, jewish or hindu worlds didnt! it probably more backward now than under the Khalifah 1400years ago until colonisation.

killing what killing are you talking about. far less killing went on in the arab world than in europe in the same time frame, or even last century.


well getting back to the point of the thread, people in Britain do think he is stupid, well you have to admit he has said a lot of stupid things. every war he goes into isnt a sucess after winning it and we know when the propaganda machine is churning crap, unlike the americans where patriotism jsut gets in the way! there will be a protest and dont think we know what is happening in the world (cos we keep ourselves informed, i do anyway) and how to deal with it. Britain has been a terrorist target for a long time while the US gov allowed open fuinding for thoise terrorist organisations!

[leet1]

Originally posted by abdul
extremists, being cowards. i may not favour the path they have taken, but anyone who has taken their life for something they believe in, or to make a point is not a coward in my eyes.


Well they are cowards and morons. They follow some fool that tells them that you will get rewards in heaven for killing. :rolleyes:


extremists = sheep

[whocares]

ditto the above, once the rude words are editted out.

We all have a lot to learn for each other's "civilizations"; I think the word culture is much more appropriate.

To further discuss my opinions, I think that Don'tHurtMe's position (don't hate me for this, nothing personnal) is just as bad a terrorism. Bluntly critizing and despising other cultures without trying to understand their differences and actions is just as bad a setting a bomb. Kinda reminds me of National Socialism in Germany...

[manitoubalck]

Originally posted by Pinto
you don't stop people strapping bombs to themselves, by interfering in their local politics, invading countries and developing new nuclear weapons.

That sort of behavior tends to have the opposite effect.

Do you think that the US is more or less liked thanks to your President's behavior?

Let me think:rolleyes: The rest of the world hates Bush because he watches too many westerns.

[Pinto]

Originally posted by leet1
Well they are cowards and morons. They follow some fool that tells them that you will get rewards in heaven for killing. :rolleyes:


extremists = sheep

So giving your life to a cause you believe in (no matter how misguided) makes you a coward??

Compare that to your average Yank bomber, who sits in absolute safety, inside a Destroyer, pushing a button that launches a cruise missile at a city full of civilians hundreds of miles away.

Land of the Brave...whatever.

[leet1]

Originally posted by Pinto
So giving your life to a cause you believe in (no matter how misguided) makes you a coward??



Yes, it does.



Compare that to your average Yank bomber, who sits in absolute safety, inside a Destroyer, pushing a button that launches a cruise missile at a city full of civilians hundreds of miles away.

He launches that missle at an enemy, not civilians. He does not go into a building and blow up a bunch of people for "Allah"
:rolleyes:

[zimv20]

Originally posted by leet1
Yes, it does.


He launches that missle at an enemy, not civilians. He does not go into a building and blow up a bunch of people for "Allah"
:rolleyes:

please hurry up and take that trip. your lack of sensitivity is embarrassing you.

[leet1]

Originally posted by zimv20
please hurry up and take that trip. your lack of sensitivity is embarrassing you.

Embarrassing me? ha, no. :rolleyes:

Start talking about the post, and quit posting about me ;)

[zimv20]

Originally posted by leet1
Embarrassing me? ha, no. :rolleyes:

Start talking about the post, and quit posting about me ;)

all right.

would you agree that the american revolutionaries were cowards?

[leet1]

Originally posted by zimv20
all right.

would you agree that the american revolutionaries were cowards?

No, but if your comparing them to extremists like the ones in the middle east, your extremely wrong.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by leet1
No, but if your comparing them to extremists like the ones in the middle east, your extremely wrong.

thank you for not even allowing me to formulate an argument. c.f. the quote i posted from twain.

too bad the terrorists can't target the close-minded, eh?

[leet1]

Originally posted by zimv20
too bad the terrorists can't target the close-minded, eh?

Yes, too bad, :rolleyes:

[zimv20]

Originally posted by leet1
Yes, too bad, :rolleyes:

yeah, good one

let's try a 'back on topic'

why do you think bush is so unpopular in the UK?

[Pinto]

Originally posted by leet1
Yes, it does.

He launches that missle at an enemy, not civilians. He does not go into a building and blow up a bunch of people for "Allah"
:rolleyes:

His missile enters the building and blows up a "bunch of people" for him, while he reads the latest copy of Stars and Stripes.

All in the Name of power, money and oil (America's Gods).

It's people like you, Bush, Osma and Saddam who are the problems in this World.

[leet1]

Originally posted by Pinto
His missile enters the building and blows up a "bunch of people" for him, while he reads the latest copy of Stars and Stripes.

All in the Name of power, money and oil (America's Gods).

It's people like you, Bush, Osma and Saddam who are the problems in this World.


All in the name of freedom. If your talking about Iraq war being about money and oil, your dead wrong. Money? Ha, were loosing billions. Oil? no.


You comparing me to Osama .....

I'll hold back on commenting on that, as it would probably get me banned.

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by leet1
No, but if your comparing them to extremists like the ones in the middle east, your extremely wrong.

What about the Irish during the Easter rising?

The Jews in UK-controlled Palestine?

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by leet1
All in the name of freedom. If your talking about Iraq war being about money and oil, your dead wrong. Money? Ha, were loosing billions. Oil? no.

Hegemony in the Middle East? Yes.

You comparing me to Osama .....

I'll hold back on commenting on that, as it would probably get me banned.

You are as blindly loyal to your cause as Osama's followers are to his.

[leet1]

Originally posted by pseudobrit
Hegemony in the Middle East? Yes.



You are as blindly loyal to your cause as Osama's followers are to his.


And what cause would that be?

[mactacular]

I just love all of these non americans speaking poorly of america. I hope the next time the America is called on by one of the other sheepish countries in the world America says screw you.

if you want to know why the many in the UK dont like the US, it is because they are jealous.

America is the protector of the entire "civilized world" The world will come crying back when they are under attack themselves.

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by mactacular
I just love all of these non americans speaking poorly of america. I hope the next time the America is called on by one of the other sheepish countries in the world America says screw you.

if you want to know why the many in the UK dont like the US, it is because they are jealous.

America is the protector of the entire "civilized world" The world will come crying back when they are under attack themselves.

That kind of pomposity and arrogance makes me ashamed to be an American.

No one in Europe is jealous of us.

And it is America that is sheepishly asking for world help in Iraq, since it cannot "protect" its way out of that mess alone as easily as Bush led us to believe.

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by leet1
And what cause would that be?

Killing Arabs.

[leet1]

Originally posted by pseudobrit
That kind of pomposity and arrogance makes me ashamed to be an American.


Then get out? ;) lol

If your ashamed in any way of being american, just step on out. Canada is great. Wonderful people, you would like it there, no Pres. Bush or evil Americans :rolleyes:

[leet1]

Originally posted by pseudobrit
Killing Arabs.


I have a cause to kill Arabs? Excuse me? Where the hell did I say that?

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by leet1
Then get out? ;) lol

If your ashamed in any way of being american, just step on out. Canada is great. Wonderful people, you would like it there, no Pres. Bush or evil Americans :rolleyes:

Typical.

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by leet1
I have a cause to kill Arabs? Excuse me? Where the hell did I say that?

You didn't. But you're supporting someone who does.

[leet1]

Originally posted by pseudobrit
You didn't. But you're supporting someone who does.


Wrong, I support the soldiers that fought in Iraq and got rid of Saddam. I didn't vote for Pres. Bush.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by leet1
If your talking about Iraq war being about money and oil, your dead wrong.

ah, willful ignorance. please take your knee-jerk uninformed dogma elsewhere.

[leet1]

Originally posted by zimv20
ah, willful ignorance. please take your knee-jerk uninformed dogma elsewhere.


Show proof that we are going to make money and or export that oil to the U.S.


Go ahead.

[whocares]

Originally posted by leet1
All in the name of freedom. If your talking about Iraq war being about money and oil, your dead wrong. Money? Ha, were loosing billions. Oil? no.

You forgot "[...] freedom of American Citizens". Surely you don't believe that the Iraqi people, and even less the Iraqi government are gonna be free do you. Geez...

As for the oil and money, you looking in a too direct manner. Of course you're not gonna load the oil on a super-tanker and haul it back to the US (though that's what Bush probably would like to do). Ask yourself who going to get/already got the contracts to rebuild Iraqi infrastructures and help operate the oilfields? Did you hear that Haliburton has signed contracts for humongous amounts of money. Did you know that D. Cheeney used to be Haliburton CEO? Is that a coincidence or what?

As for the exporting the civilized world BS, who are you to say that your/our western culture is civilized and that the rest of the world needs civilizing? What kind of imperialist are you? The Spanish Conquistadors? Have you even asked guys outside the US if they want to be "civilized" by you? They sure to god don't want to be spoiliated by you as you usually do (as does Europe too I suppose). Maybe this is why planes get losts over your cities...

[Durandal7]

What a mature debate this is :rolleyes:

I don't put much credit into polls, you can easily find a poll to support any position you feel like. For example this poll states 62% of voters believe that the US is "generally speaking a force for good, not evil, in the world". There you go, twist that into proof positive for the oppisite viewpoint.
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12956,1087545,00.html

The moral is that polls are hypocritical, poorly worded and irratic.

In my opinion it seems that the Brits are less apathetic then Americans and more likely to resort to activism. Their anti-war effort is a lot more organized then the US anti-war effort. That is the biggest contributing cause to the mass demonstrations.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by leet1
Show proof that we are going to make money and or export that oil to the U.S.


Go ahead.

halliburton profits from war (http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/07.14A.halli.profit.htm)

israel seeks pipeline for iraq oil (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,940250,00.html)

two US firms hit iraq jackpot (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/28/iraq/main570624.shtml)

senate backs war profiteering (http://www.madison.com/captimes/opinion/editorial/59136.php)

republicans strip 'no war profiteering' section (http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/11/1657848.php)

--------

in the 90s, PNAC (wolfowitz, rumsfeld, et. al.) outlined a plan to reshape the middle east to its liking. that plan is now in effect. it lays the outline for everything that's happening now. their website is here (http://newamericancentury.org/)

[leet1]

By Don Evans Commerce Secretary

The President has always said that the oil in Iraq belongs to the people of Iraq. Any revenue it generates will be for the people of Iraq to rebuild their country and grow their economy.


source (http://www.whitehouse.gov/ask/20031022.html)

[zimv20]

Originally posted by leet1
source (http://www.whitehouse.gov/ask/20031022.html)

my attempt to enlighten you has been stymied by your willful ignorance.

with whitehouse.gov, you've got one-stop shopping for all your propaganda needs. please involve yourself there and stop regurgitating it here. i probably know the WH party line better than you do, anyway.

[leet1]

Originally posted by zimv20
my attempt to enlighten you has been stymied by your willful ignorance.

with whitehouse.gov, you've got one-stop shopping for all your propaganda needs. please involve yourself there and stop regurgitating it here. i probably know the WH party line better than you do, anyway.


I did not come here, nor do I expect to be enlightened by you. YOUR WILLFUL ignorance is annoying.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by leet1
I did not come here, nor do I expect to be enlightened by you. YOUR WILLFUL ignorance is annoying.

this isn't going anywhere. feel free to comment on the topic of this thread, but in the interest of the other readers i'm going to try to stop this pointless banter.

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by leet1
I did not come here, nor do I expect to be enlightened by you. YOUR WILLFUL ignorance is annoying.

Thanks for playing. You've learned nothing, but you didn't come here to discuss and enrich your outlook, did you?

[mactacular]

Why does the left need to enlighten everybody. I feel enlightened on my own.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by mactacular
Why does the left need to enlighten everybody. I feel enlightened on my own.

yeah, making sure everyone knows the facts is a really horrible way to run a country.

would you mind changing your signature? it's a bit inflammatory.

[mactacular]

I changed it, do you like it better. I hope it fits with you leftest ideology!!!

[Pinto]

Originally posted by mactacular
I changed it, do you like it better. I hope it fits with you leftest ideology!!!

How about:

Greed is good, therefore,
A war based on greed is good.

More to your liking?

[zimv20]

Originally posted by Pinto

More to your liking?

he'll have a little trouble answering you.

[Inu]

Originally posted by mactacular
I just love all of these non americans speaking poorly of america. I hope the next time the America is called on by one of the other sheepish countries in the world America says screw you.

if you want to know why the many in the UK dont like the US, it is because they are jealous.

America is the protector of the entire "civilized world" The world will come crying back when they are under attack themselves.

Yeah, we still are grateful for what your forefathers have done back in WW2 - BUT, i am not willing to forgive the sins of the sons for the deeds of the fathers. Even then, it was a good deed America did in WW2, although a bit late.

Trust me, we (europeans) are not jealous of the US. Why should we? Most of us have access to non-propaganda news, and can live their lives without haveing to proove anything to some other countries. Its always funny to get called jealous for america's freedoms and whatnot, knowing that you actually enjoy more freedoms here (trust me, it is like that).

Btw, i really doubt that america is the protector of the "civilized world" - I really think america is protecting the interest of its leading elite and masking it as protecting the world. The world doesnt need to be protected all that much, but you feel proud doing so, and actually fear the "sheepish countries"-alliances to defend themself (remember the EU defence alliance thing a few weeks back? no? I thought so...) ...

Btw. Of course America is loosing Billions in Iraq! But it is loosing the billions to a selected few companies, who just happen to be US ones. America looses money, a chosen few win their asses worth of gold (and more... i doubt their asses (despite being big&fat) are worth much)

[manitoubalck]

Originally posted by mactacular
I just love all of these non americans speaking poorly of america. I hope the next time the America is called on by one of the other sheepish countries in the world America says screw you

So do I, KEEP OUT OF OTHERS BUSINESS YOU YANKS.

[manitoubalck]

Originally posted by Inu
Btw, i really doubt that america is the protector of the "civilized world" - I really think america is protecting the interest of its leading elite and masking it as protecting the world.

And doing a poor job @ that.
Us run by a Texan,
Texas the oil capital of the US,
US @ war with an man they put in power and who's country sits on one of the worlds larges oil reservers... Hmm:confused:

I smell a rat.

[manitoubalck]

Originally posted by zimv20
ah, willful ignorance. please take your knee-jerk uninformed dogma elsewhere.

Iraq: We have Oil, and possibley WoMD,
US: Were in

US: N.Keroa, you guys got any oil?
N. Keroa: no, but we have Nuclear weapons.
US: nah don't worry

[mactastic]

Originally posted by tazo
I agree 100%

Some of the only people left on this earth, killing people in the name of god.

Oh yeah?
Army of God (http://www.armyofgod.com/PHillMessageBoard.html)
“Even at the threshold of death he never wavered in his belief that the unborn were entitled to the same justifiable use of force as post-born children. He has set the standard of what being pro-life should mean. There is no one, including myself, who is as true a man as Paul Hill. I hope some day to be as true a man as he is.”
dan holman
Paul Hill's act of killing the murderous abortionist was not a crime worthy
of death. In fact, it was not a crime at all. It was a heroic and courageous
act carried out to save babies. And save babies it did. Paul Hill was
murdered by the state of Florida for saving babies. He was murdered in the
name of saving the baby killing abortion industry. He was slaughtered on the
alter of convenience and hedonism. If the second coming of the Lord Jesus
Christ does not take place first, Paul Hill will one day be seen by many
more people in America as a hero. When Paul Hill entered into the presence
of God on September 3, 2003, I believe that_ when he entered into glory
those there who were murdered by abortionists in some way knew he was a man
who fought for the unborn and they were cheering him when he arrived.
Request to remain anonymous
Sept. 3rd was a very sad day and should be remember as a day of mourning for all Christians. It was a horrible thing that happened. There should be more of us like Paul out there.
_Meggie
You are the finest example of valor, honor, gallantry, and manhood that the United States of America has
ever produced, and I'm sure you will remember to lay the honor at the feet of our Precious Lord and Savior,
Jesus Christ, Who is worthy of all praise, honor, and glory._ I feel honored to have been associated with you
before you carried out your mission and have boasted about how, while I was still in prison, you accepted a collect
call from me 19 days before you did it._ I, too, lay the honor at Jesus' feet._ Hallelujah!

It goes on and on like that, but you get the point. Oh yeah, by the way, those are all Christians.

[Inu]

Originally posted by mactastic

It goes on and on like that, but you get the point. Oh yeah, by the way, those are all Christians.

Disgusting Page. Do they really favor biomass over a human live, given the bearer of the biomass is more responsible for the act of abortion anyway?

Bunch of sickos

[professor]

Originally posted by leet1
Well they are cowards and morons. They follow some fool that tells them that you will get rewards in heaven for killing.

leet:
I'm appalled. You call your president a fool?

[leet1]

Originally posted by professor
leet:
I'm appalled. You call your president a fool?


Ja ist das genau, was ich sagte :rolleyes:

[g5man]

Originally posted by Pinto
link (http://icberkshire.icnetwork.co.uk/war/latest/content_objectid=13628129_method=full_siteid=50102_headline=-60--say-Bush-a-threat-to-world-peace-name_page.html)

OK now I am really confused.

Here is a poll that shows how British support is growing for the war.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12956,1087545,00.html

They hate Bush but like his war. Which is it?

[professor]

Originally posted by zimv20
halliburton profits from war (http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/07.14A.halli.profit.htm)

israel seeks pipeline for iraq oil (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,940250,00.html)

two US firms hit iraq jackpot (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/28/iraq/main570624.shtml)

senate backs war profiteering (http://www.madison.com/captimes/opinion/editorial/59136.php)

republicans strip 'no war profiteering' section (http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/11/1657848.php)

--------

in the 90s, PNAC (wolfowitz, rumsfeld, et. al.) outlined a plan to reshape the middle east to its liking. that plan is now in effect. it lays the outline for everything that's happening now. their website is here (http://newamericancentury.org/)

zimv,

it's good you'r hanging in here...

[professor]

Originally posted by leet1
source (http://www.whitehouse.gov/ask/20031022.html)

since when do we believe anything this president has said?

[zimv20]

Originally posted by professor
zimv,

it's good you'r hanging in here...

hey! been a long time, eh?

[pseudobrit]

Welcome back, professor. You'll see our old friend sanfelipe/Ovi is back as g5man and nonsensical as ever. We're just waiting for the next outburst that gets him banned again.

[amnesiac1984]

I haven't participated much in these forums since before and during the Iraq War. But its shocking, now that after what a shambles of a war that has been people are still coming up with the Same BS as they did 7 months ago.


As for these polls, I'm in Britain and let me tell you this.

I had a lot of heated debate before the war with, mostly people older than me, who were pro the war, that includes my dad and some of his buddies. Now, in the months since the war i have met less and less people who support it. And in the last two months I have not met 1 SINGLE PERSON who agrees with the way the war played out, and they are growing more and more angry at Bush. In fact I can honestly say the only thing I've heard that is pro the situation are the voices of Tony Blair and other members of government on the TV. That's It!

And to top it off, on the BBC newsnight program last night we had one of bush's former speech writers. First of all, instead of answering a question about Bush he went on a rant about how the BBC is anti-bush. He lied, skirted around the issues and played ignorance in some of them. Now that is what politicians are meant to do no?, well yes that's what they do, but when they do it so blatantly and arrogantly as he did, it gets a little ridiculous. Perhaps that is the norm for America but we really aren't use to that level of arrogance in this country's media.

I started thinking about it, along with the research I've been doing into Bush's life for a report on him that I completed on Monday, and I came to realise this. These politicians, and servicemen who are part of the Bush squad, are part of an elite. They have been brought up with everything they ever wanted, and this is especially evident in the younger members. They mixed only with others like them when they were younger, they would weasel out of situations and lie to each other, and that became acceptable because they were all doing it. When they start to behave like this in front of normal (non sociopath) humans it really looks wrong. So wrong in fact that you really can't take anything they say seriously.

Sorry for the rant but I'm just really angry at these people who, somehow have all this power, but are really screwing things up for their own selfish reasons. On the other hand I'm sorta happy because the people are starting to wake up to this, if it hasn't happened in your country yet, its definitely happened here. Maybe one good thing has come out of this war. Many of us have learned a lot, we have learned that all is not rosy with the world and these people in who we trust to run things, really aren't that trustworthy after all. The feeling is spreading and, I believe, something will happen in the next century to improve things. policies will not be about greed. In fact one day maybe greed will no longer be a word.!

:)

[amnesiac1984]

Originally posted by g5man
OK now I am really confused.

Here is a poll that shows how British support is growing for the war.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12956,1087545,00.html

They hate Bush but like his war. Which is it?

They hate bush and they hate the war but they like america and like what it stands for and what it usually does. The last 3 years has just been a problem, and people in general recognise that its not america's fault they have a lemon instead of a president.

These polls have been all over the news, and surprisingly, considering the guardians left leanings, this article doesn't show all the same figures that were on the news last night. click here to watch the show and see what i mean (realvideo) (http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsa/n5ctrl/tvseq/newsnight/newsnight.ram)

[Inu]

Originally posted by amnesiac1984
The feeling is spreading and, I believe, something will happen in the next century to improve things. policies will not be about greed. In fact one day maybe greed will no longer be a word.!

:)

Well, i damn sure hope there will be a change in the next century, but you know the saying "Fish dont know a word for water"... Not knowing a word for greed... *shudder*

[skunk]

For an amusing compendium of representative reactions over here, read these letters.

link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1087591,00.html)

[Universal Jack]

I just saw on the CBC that the Turks are protesting against terrorism AND George W. Bush. Seems to me that the U.S. has to figure out how to stop bombing other nations. Let's face it the U.S. likes to bomb people who don't do things the way they do. They're bristling with weapons and they just gotta use 'em. Cowboy diplomacy. They can't help themselves. They're the greatest nation of all time ;) Just to show HOW great they are here is a list of countries they've had the pleasure of bombing since but not including WW2:

China 1945-46

Korea 1950-53

China 1950-53

Guatemala 1954

Indonesia 1958

Cuba 1959-60

Guatemala 1960

Congo 1964

Peru 1965

Laos 1964-73

Vietnam 1961-73

Cambodia 1969-70

Guatemala 1967-69

Grenada 1983

Lebanon 1984

Libya 1986

El Salvador 1980s

Nicaragua 1980s

Panama 1989

Iraq 1991 - 2003

Sudan 1998

Afghanistan 1998 - 2003

Yugoslavia 1999

And the American public can't figure out why they might not be on some peoples Christmas lists? thick

[skunk]

Yeah, that kinda puts things in context, doesn't it? I'm just glad you are a peace-loving nation. We'd all be in REAL trouble otherwise.

[leet1]

Let's face it the U.S. likes to bomb people who don't do things the way they do.

:rolleyes: Most, if not all of those are justified I'm sure.

[skunk]

Originally posted by leet1
:rolleyes: Most, if not all of those are justified I'm sure.

Oh, you can justify almost anything if you try hard enough. Unfortunately, so can the other guy. The problem is that dropping high explosive on people from a great height doesn't really solve anything, it just stores up more hatred and trouble for the future.

[leet1]

Originally posted by skunk
The problem is that dropping high explosive on people from a great height doesn't really solve anything, it just stores up more hatred and trouble for the future.


Really? Dropping...say...a nuclear bomb....never solves anything like stopping a war? hmm.....

[Universal Jack]

Originally posted by leet1
Really? Dropping...say...a nuclear bomb....never solves anything like stopping a war? hmm.....
You got me there man. Thank God for nuclear bombs.:rolleyes:

[Dont Hurt Me]

so does strapping a bomb and detonating it in a crowd, building up that hatred that is. what kind of people do this crap? anyways its the U.S who has stood up for freedom,liberty,and justice not no darn muslim nation thank you,nor socialist or commies. whats new in the mideast? they been killing each other for centuries! its all they know! Its all they are taught!Hate the israeli! the American!the infidel whatever the hell that is! without America keeping a watchful eye on these crazy countries the world would be in chaos! someone has to stop all those madmen dictators and the U.S has the job since the U.N is a worthless beuracratic paperpushing do nothing political antiAmerica circus! Crazy Korean and Iran are next if they dont change their ways!

[skunk]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
anyways its the U.S who has stood up for freedom,liberty,and justice not no darn muslim nation thank you,nor socialist or commies.
All by itself, of course. And we're all TERRIBLY grateful. Those pesky British and French socialists are just a bunch of chickens, aren't they?
without America keeping a watchful eye on these crazy countries the world would be in chaos! someone has to stop all those madmen dictators and the U.S has the job since the U.N is a worthless beuracratic paperpushing do nothing political antiAmerica circus!
NEWSFLASH! The world IS in chaos. So glad you lot are keeping an eye on things. It really makes us all feel so much safer.

[Dont Hurt Me]

perhaps the U.S should have just let Hitler and Stalin decide your futures instead of yourselves.

[skunk]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
perhaps the U.S should have just let Hitler and Stalin decide your futures instead of yourselves.
I thought that's what you did until the Japanese knocked on your door.

[leet1]

Originally posted by skunk
I thought that's what you did until the Japanese knocked on your door.

I dont know my WW2 history too well, but you have got to be ****ting me! Just because we helped AFTER we were attacked, thats not as good as helping period?!?!?

Come on. :rolleyes:

[Dont Hurt Me]

i know Hitler was knocking on your door!

[skunk]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
i know Hitler was knocking on your door!
With the backing of quite a few US corporations and individuals. Ask Grandpa Bush.
Anyway, this thread is nothing to do with WWII, this is about what's going on now. And it's 2am here, so I'm off to bed. Argue amongst yourselves. Enjoy!:rolleyes:

[Dont Hurt Me]

now i have heard it all

[leet1]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
now i have heard it all


Nah, I'm sure he has some more bs to throw into this thread :o

[Rebel]

Originally posted by skunk
With the backing of quite a few US corporations and individuals. Ask Grandpa Bush.
Anyway, this thread is nothing to do with WWII, this is about what's going on now. And it's 2am here, so I'm off to bed. Argue amongst yourselves. Enjoy!:rolleyes:

America 's soldiers and veterans seem to be at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to budget funds from our government employee’s. However, Dick Cheney is happy. His former company Halliburton is earning millions in taxpayer money to import oil into Iraq . This is on top of what Halliburton will earn for the multimillion dollar, no-bid contract it was awarded to rebuild Iraq 's oil fields. Even as taxpayer money is making Halliburton rich, the U.S. military refuses to spend the money needed to supply soldiers on the front lines in Iraq with modern body armor.

Thousands of soldiers are wearing outdated Vietnam-era vests, as their desperate parents have to foot the bill for modern vests so that their children are not blown to pieces

For thousands of other troops, there is more indignity when they come home. Veterans Affairs political appointee, Laura J. Miller, issued a memo to VA administrators to stop informing soldiers of their right to health care.

Given the ''very conservative Office of Management and Budget guidelines for 2004,'' Miller wrote that administrators should ensure that there are ''no marketing activities to enroll more soldiers.’’

And now the word is out – there are hundreds of sick and wounded American Soldiers warehoused in crude barracks, without proper medical care at Fort Stewart in Georgia. ''Some of these soldiers are certainly not happy,'' admitted Col. John Kidd, the garrison commander.'' Can you blame them? Foreign soldiers are getting better treatment than our own. Our Government employee’s callous disregard for the lower ranks is not limited to soldiers and veterans. It expands to all Americans from all walks of life. It is time for every American citizen to demand changes in how our government conducts business.

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by leet1
Really? Dropping...say...a nuclear bomb....never solves anything like stopping a war? hmm.....

It sure will, just so long as you're the only one that can drop them.

When you're not, it doesn't stop a war, it starts armageddon.

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
so does strapping a bomb and detonating it in a crowd, building up that hatred that is. what kind of people do this crap?

What kind of people send a quarter million kids over to detonate bombs in crowds for them?

anyways its the U.S who has stood up for freedom,liberty,and justice not no darn muslim nation thank you,nor socialist or commies.

Actually, without the Soviets, Hitler mightn't have lost the war. So I guess those "not no darn" commies are good for something.

whats new in the mideast? they been killing each other for centuries! its all they know! Its all they are taught!

So glad we have a Middle Eastern specialist in our midst to clear this up. I guess their entire school system is arranged to teach kids how to kill.

Hate the israeli!

Who hates the Palestinian!

the American!

Who hates anyone opposed to his nation's ambition!

the infidel whatever the hell that is!

Who hates the entire Godless Arab population, otherwise known as "terrorists."

without America keeping a watchful eye on these crazy countries the world would be in chaos! someone has to stop all those madmen dictators and the U.S has the job since the U.N is a worthless beuracratic paperpushing do nothing political antiAmerica circus! Crazy Korean and Iran are next if they dont change their ways!

Thank God the US is there to decide who's mad enough to be invaded.

How many mad dictators have we unseated exactly? Is it more or less than we installed?

[Universal Jack]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
now i have heard it all

I'm not sure you have. Is it common knowledge in the States that your president received one millon dollars from the bin Ladens to help start up his oil company? Is it common knowledge in the States that George Sr. was at a meeting in Washington with a brother of Osama when the planes hit the Twin Towers? Remember the truck bomb that was driven into an apartment bldg. in Saudia Arabia killing 19 American soldiers? Guess who got the contract to rebuild. The bin Ladens. The American people are not getting the whole picture. If they really knew what kind of web there leaders have gotten them tangled up in they would be outraged.They have sent there best over to die not for there country but for the Bush family and there friends. Worst of all they could be dragging the rest of us down with them.
Here is a link to the CBC(Canadian Broadcasting Corporation).It's about the conspiracy theories surrounding 911 and what the facts are. Everybody on this thread should check it out. It'll make you go hmmmmm...http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/conspiracytheories/resources.html

[wwworry]

Grandfather Prescott Bush: Funded Hitler during WW II (http://www.bartcop.com/421102.htm)

Father Bush: Funded Bin Laden (http://www.americanfreepress.net/10_07_01/Bush___Bin_Laden_-_George_W__B/bush___bin_laden_-_george_w__b.html)

Little Bush: Used Bin Laden to ... the list is endless. AWOL during national guard service.

This is a bad family.