Apple Continues Mac OS X 10.5.3 (9d27) Development

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple issued a new seed of Mac OS X 10.5.3 (build 9D27) to ADC developers tonight, detailing a number of new bug fixes and listing no known issues. The newest version of Mac OS X provides a number of bug fixes and stability improvements over the current public version (10.5.2) but remains in limited testing amongst developers as Apple finalizes its code base. Apple first started testing (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/03/28/apple-seeds-first-mac-os-x-10-5-3-9d10-version/) Mac OS X 10.5.3 on March 28th.

Apple appears to have begun seeding these test versions more frequently than in the past. Historically, Apple has waited until development was wrapping up before accelerating their seeds.

Regardless, we've heard anecdotal reports that even the latest version has stability issues which means Apple still has some work to do. Once released, the 10.5.3 update will be available for free through Mac OS X 10.5's Software Update.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/05/05/apple-continues-mac-os-x-10-5-3-9d27-development/)

[kornyboy]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)

Keep working. I'll be ready to update when it is ready.

[avigalante]

Good to hear Apple is fixing up the bugs in Leopard.

I am at my knees with viewing files in coverflow - finder readjusts itself every single time... so annoying!

[flopticalcube]

I wonder if this will have any code in it to purposely break hackintoshes now that Psystar is shipping?

[arn]

I wonder if this will have any code in it to purposely break hackintoshes now that Psystar is shipping?

I believe the 10.5.x releases tend to be the ones that put hackintoshes at risk of breaking without additional updates.

So if it does, it might not be intentional.

arn

[iTim314]

I wonder if this will have any code in it to purposely break hackintoshes now that Psystar is shipping?

You know, that could very well be the reason behind the delay.

Perhaps we'll also see some form of firmware updates pre/post 10.5.3?

[glasserp]

Good to hear!

[Sbrocket]

I wonder if this will have any code in it to purposely break hackintoshes now that Psystar is shipping?

You know, that could very well be the reason behind the delay.

Perhaps we'll also see some form of firmware updates pre/post 10.5.3?

I really think you're being more paranoid than is usually allowed outside the realms of sensationalist havens like Digg. This whole "Apple is out to get the little man!" thing is really a bit ridiculous.

[Matthew Yohe]

Good to hear Apple is fixing up the bugs in Leopard.

I am at my knees with viewing files in coverflow - finder readjusts itself every single time... so annoying!

Finder readjusts itself?

I won't deny that there are some quirks, but are you simply looking at files in coverflow that are being updated? That would explain why things move in coverflow if I understand you correctly.

[kgeier82]

as a student ADC member, i cant seem to find this DL?

do i not have access as a student?

[Sbrocket]

as a student ADC member, i cant seem to find this DL?

do i not have access as a student?

Mac OS X pre-release developer seeds are only available to those with Developer Seed Access. If its not listed in your assets, then you wouldn't have access. A typical student wouldn't have access to such things, no.

[flopticalcube]

I believe the 10.5.x releases tend to be the ones that put hackintoshes at risk of breaking without additional updates.

So if it does, it might not be intentional.

arn

They didn't have a commercial rival for their hardware until now, however.

[Eidorian]

Hopefully they'll fix the Apple DVD player w/ 4 GB problems.

[spooky mulder]

great, can't wait for 10.5.3 to come out. Help my airport issues.

[Luap]

They didn't have a commercial rival for their hardware until now, however.

Hmm, Im not sure a tiny PC company that suddenly sprang from nowhere could really be considered a rival. Merely a very minor threat which im sure Apple can easily deal with when they decide to get on with it. I wouldnt be surprised if they are preparing the case now?
Besides, from the early review I saw, the Psystar machines are little better than any other Hackintosh. IE, Serious issues that would never be acceptable to most typical Apple customers.

So I doubt 10.5.3 is being held up by any Psystar issues. Its likely amongst the least of Apples concerns.

[twoodcc]

i really feel that this is coming sooner than we expected. like maybe at wwdc? either way, i'm glad to see that they are continually working hard on it

[MattG]

All I know is I hope it fixes my MBP's issue with not waking up from sleep. I'm tired of doing hard shutdowns every day.

[AppleMojo]

They didn't have a commercial rival for their hardware until now, however.

Rival, is exaggerating to say the least.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

You know, that could very well be the reason behind the delay.

Perhaps we'll also see some form of firmware updates pre/post 10.5.3?

What delay? Apple never gave a date that they would release 10.5.3.

[flopticalcube]

Hmm, Im not sure a tiny PC company that suddenly sprang from nowhere could really be considered a rival. Merely a very minor threat which im sure Apple can easily deal with when they decide to get on with it. I wouldnt be surprised if they are preparing the case now?
Besides, from the early review I saw, the Psystar machines are little better than any other Hackintosh. IE, Serious issues that would never be acceptable to most typical Apple customers.

So I doubt 10.5.3 is being held up by any Psystar issues. Its likely amongst the least of Apples concerns.

Rival, is exaggerating to say the least.

Every company taking one of your dollars away is a rival, no matter how big or small. A wedge starts with a very small edge indeed.

[mike12806]

Hopefully they'll fix the Apple DVD player w/ 4 GB problems.

My imac has 4 GB of memory and DVD player has no problems? How does having 4 GB of memory break the Apple DVD player?

Or are you talking about DVD size?

[Rocketman]

An X.X.3 update needs to be grandma friendly. Wait till it is fully baked.

Will it write ZFS?

Rocketman

[orpheus1120]

My imac has 4 GB of memory and DVD player has no problems? How does having 4 GB of memory break the Apple DVD player?

Or are you talking about DVD size?

This seems to be a hardware-related issue specifically associated with macbooks equipped with 4 GB of RAM, accessing the dvd player. Many users have reported kernel panic. There are threads on this.

[dmied]

I hope this update solves my Airport issues. My VOIP phone continues to work fine but the signal is lost to my computer several times a day.

[BTW]

An X.X.3 update needs to be grandma friendly. Wait till it is fully baked.

Will it write ZFS?

Rocketman

That would be neat if ZFS was fully implemented and writable. As OSX has shown the first three 10.x.x updates are stabilization updates. It usually isn't until at least 10.x.4 that we have seen major new features added or beta'd for the next OS full release (e.g. in the past file journaling and most recently BootCamp).

[kcmac]

i don't think we will see real ZFS until 10.6.

[kerryn]

This seems to be a hardware-related issue specifically associated with macbooks equipped with 4 GB of RAM, accessing the dvd player. Many users have reported kernel panic. There are threads on this.

This is a new one on me. I have a 4GB Macbook and I can't say I've noticed any issue with DVD Player. Frontrow yes (it stutters), but DVD player no.

Still I burned one DVD and it will not play in my portable dvd player in the car. It plays fine on my macbook and other pc, but not a commercial player. Kind of sucks - I've lost faith in the Macbooks ability to burn good dvds. Is this the issue? Incidently the same file burned on my many year old PC worked fine. Macs are not always better than PCs and that's a same as I hate windows.

[spaz8]

I hope this update improves drivers for the 8800 cards..

[Stridder44]

i don't think we will see real ZFS until 10.6.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is joking themselves. Why would they release ZFS randomly for a point release? That makes no sense at all on so many levels. I wouldn't be surprised, however, if we did see ZFS in 10.6.

[Jiddick ExRex]

I would much rather have more stability than to test out the ZFS for another 10.x.x updates...

[Ludde]

What delay? Apple never gave a date that they would release 10.5.3.

Thank you, I was going to say that myself.

[Eric S.]

They didn't have a commercial rival for their hardware until now, however.

Nor do they now. Psystar's selling a type of system that Apple doesn't offer. If they did offer one like it, Psystar's business (whatever there is of it) would dry up.

[mckyvlle]

Fix AirPort Utility! It easily gets confused by AirPort Expresses getting an IP via PPPoE, and then stop configuring said AirPort Express.

[BWhaler]

More bug fixes is good news. Instability is not.

I hope Apple takes their sweet time with 10.5.3, and gets this release right.

Let's be honest: Leopard is a disgraceful, buggy mess. And it was released to the public way too early.

I don't want to wait until 10.5.6 to get things right, and I'm not expecting zero bugs. But Spaces still makes no sense, apps crash all the time, and there are just so many bugs. So, so many bugs.

I hope Apple takes another month or so, get a few more hundred bugs out of the way, and release a version of Leopard that is worthy of the Apple name.

[le sacre]

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1065674 (Topic : Display freezing - NVChannel(GL): Graphics channel exception) is filled with people who are hoping 10.5.3 will present a permanent solution to horrific graphics crashes in macbook pros, which got suddenly much worse after the Leopard Graphics Update.

it's very upsetting that the official advice people have gotten from apple on this issue is to archive and reinstall leopard and then apply all the updates except for the graphics update. thanks, apple.

luckily, a kind soul explained how to replace the broken files, to avoid having to give up an entire afternoon to a reinstall. but the problem still recurs, though less frequently.

early reports suggest that 10.5.3 will fix it. fingers crossed. still mad, though.

[FullGaz]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Regardless, we've heard anecdotal reports that even the latest version has stability issues which means Apple still has some work to do.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/05/05/apple-continues-mac-os-x-10-5-3-9d27-development/)
No kidding??? Stability issues??? In leopard? That's new:D!

Hmm, Im not sure a tiny PC company that suddenly sprang from nowhere could really be considered a rival. Merely a very minor threat which im sure Apple can easily deal with when they decide to get on with it.
Pystar can hardly be called a rival or a threat. They don't threaten Apple's core business since they can't provide comparable service at a better price: they don't have an OS compatible with OS X, they don't have an iTunes store, they don't have iPods... Now, if a Chinese company to go into large scale production of a good looking clone for a very good price that could be a threat. Psystar is merely an experiment, not even an annoyance.

[SpaceMagic]

I think I've said it before. 10.5.3 needs to fix a lot of issues. I'm not a pro user, nor am I a light user. I am an experienced user nonetheless and I really hate the bugs I find in Leopard everyday.

I don't want to be rash and say "i'm moving back to tiger" because Leopard does over many enhancements and workflow upgrades (coverflow and quick view for a start are life savers). However, Safari crashes once a day at least, especially on flash pages. iChat gets random time out errors. Mail crashed so much, I moved to Entourage god help.

All I want is a stable system that works. I don't really care about bolstering on features at this point!

[daneoni]

This seems to be a hardware-related issue specifically associated with macbooks equipped with 4 GB of RAM, accessing the dvd player. Many users have reported kernel panic. There are threads on this.

I have 4GB of Ram on my BlackBook but not this issue

[cal6n]

I hope this update improves drivers for the 8800 cards..

This seems like a much more likely explanation than all that paranoid bollocks about psystar... ;)

[ikir]

What delay? Apple never gave a date that they would release 10.5.3.

Indeed... people are getting mad... to much pc users here :-D

[Radiomarko]

First time poster here so Hi all. Been an Apple user and evangelist since they were invented but this is the FIRST time I have been mad enough to join in a complaint/moan thread.

For the love of everything that is Holy, Apple please, please sort the Leopard firewall out!

Why should we have to have a firewall gui that says the firewall is off, when its clear that there is an ipfw service that is restricting port access AND is not conforming to usual/expected/sensible commands?!

I am really, really mad, this is restricting my work and turning my hair grey, I found myself looking at a windows box yesterday... jeez.

[Mackan]

Does Apple ever state known issues?

[shigzeo]

i waited till 10.4.2 to get tiger - that was a mess. 10.4.3 was suddenly so fast and espeically on my ibook (at the time) photos and wegpages loaded so fast. even ones on my hd (thumbnails sprang to life rather than wobbled into being).

that said - im still on tiger. sometimes i feel that it is a sad mess as well.

Mail - strange behaviour where i cannot type in lines above what i am typing - it forces me to next line. Safari crashes like mad and way too much memory leakage.

Ichat - always crashing.

i think that many of these errors we attribute to leapard are unfortunately just osx problems. waiting for 10.5.3 and for hopefully reports of a massive increase in quality

[mreg376]

Hopefully they'll fix the Apple DVD player w/ 4 GB problems.

What problems?

[wavelayer]

Let's be honest: Leopard is a disgraceful, buggy mess. And it was released to the public way too early.


I've been enjoying Leopard immensely. So have many others.

[thejadedmonkey]

Let's be honest: Leopard is a disgraceful, buggy mess. And it was released to the public way too early.

Let's be honest: What are you talking about? I did a clean install of 10.5.0 on day zero, and it's been big free (excluding the mess that was 10.5.1).

On topic. this is great news, because, well, I'm addicted to updates :p

hopefully they do clean up the language in firewall though, I do agree it's sloppy.

Oh, and how can something have stability problems but no known issues?:confused:

[Bubba Satori]

Apple Vi$ta. :D

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=1677

[alex06]

Anyone who thinks otherwise is joking themselves. Why would they release ZFS randomly for a point release? That makes no sense at all on so many levels. I wouldn't be surprised, however, if we did see ZFS in 10.6.

I think ZFS will be released in a point release, but hidden to ordinaries users.
Server administrators will be able to use it.
It will be the default filesystem, or at least an advertised option, in 10.6 .
It seems to me they did that way with HFS+ (available in 8.1, default in 9.0).

[Stike]

I just hope this fixes the random invisibility of Safari, Mail and other app windows.

Sometimes ... they just disappear. They are technically there (i.e. you can enter data), but not visible. Only a logout helps about this.

Many apps are affected by this at the same time:
Safari
Mail
iCal
...

Something with the window server?

[alex06]

I just hope this fixes the random invisibility of Safari, Mail and other app windows.

Sometimes ... they just disappear. They are technically there (i.e. you can enter data), but not visible. Only a logout helps about this.

Many apps are affected by this at the same time:
Safari
Mail
iCal
...

Something with the window server?

I solved this in Boinc manager by activating and deactivating Spaces.

[Stike]

I solved this in Boinc manager by activating and deactivating Spaces.

THANKS, I will definitely look into this. Here´s hoping - cheers!

[i.mac]

...

Let's be honest: Leopard is a disgraceful, buggy mess. And it was released to the public way too early.
...


Speak for yourself. Leopard is doing just fine for most folks.

Also, if Leopard is 'disgraceful', then you have the choice to go to windo$, Linux, Solaris, etc.

Better yet, you could become a developer and help solve the mess as you see it for the benefit of every one.

[ZacUSNYR]

Leopard is fantastic. Maybe because I come from Windows and non-user friendly Linux distros. There are a few quirks. If I stick a DVD into my Macbook 2.2 with 4gb of ram it pukes out with a Kernel panic which I feel is more of a firmware issue then a Leopard issue. The finder not remembering view settings based on folder annoys me.

Other then that, i've had no gripes about it. IMO, anything they "fix" is just making the best desktop/portable operating system better.

[Tom B.]

What problems?

These:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=429296
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=475711
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=416857

Other than that issue, I have hardly any other problems with Leopard, and it can only get better. One thing though... when can we expect resolution independence?

[ibwb]

This is a new one on me. I have a 4GB Macbook and I can't say I've noticed any issue with DVD Player. Frontrow yes (it stutters), but DVD player no.

Still I burned one DVD and it will not play in my portable dvd player in the car. It plays fine on my macbook and other pc, but not a commercial player. Kind of sucks - I've lost faith in the Macbooks ability to burn good dvds. Is this the issue? Incidently the same file burned on my many year old PC worked fine. Macs are not always better than PCs and that's a same as I hate windows.

Supremely offtopic, but couldn't this be an issue with the hodge-podge of different recordable DVD formats? Computers are typically able to play all of them but this isn't true of all hardware players, which tend to be somewhat cheaply made. This is where you get problems with DVD+R versus DVD-R etc.

[Stridder44]

Apple Vi$ta. :D

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=1677

How clever of you, you spelled the "s" in Vista with a dollar sign.... *sigh* No wonder the rest of the world hates Mac users.

Anyway, I wouldn't call Leopard bug free like many are saying here. Just because you haven't experienced any issues doesn't mean they don't exist. I am very much looking forward to 10.5.3. Fix the damn Airport already!

[guzhogi]

A bit OT, but I hope they fix Boot Camp. I bought a Vista SP1 install DVD last week (I'm a computer tech so I want to be familiar w/ it, plus all the games :p ) and installed it on my 2.33 GHz C2D MBP. The audio doesn't work. I looked at some of the threads on discussions.apple.com, and I guess it's a driver issue. Come on Apple, MS & whoever makes the audio hardware in MBPs, I want to hear stuff when I need to run Vista!

[avigalante]

Finder readjusts itself?

I won't deny that there are some quirks, but are you simply looking at files in coverflow that are being updated? That would explain why things move in coverflow if I understand you correctly.

No. As in the finder window readjusts itself in size after every restart or whatever; it keeps resizing how large the coverflow section is along with the size of the window.

[mreed911]

Safari crashes once a day at least, especially on flash pages

And this is a Safari problem how?

If it's crashing on Flash, I'd think that Adobe would be my first suspicion, seeing that they WRITE THE FLASH PLAYER for Safari.

[thekurgan]

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1065674 (Topic : Display freezing - NVChannel(GL): Graphics channel exception) is filled with people who are hoping 10.5.3 will present a permanent solution to horrific graphics crashes in macbook pros, which got suddenly much worse after the Leopard Graphics Update.



Completely agree, and Nvidia is partially to blame, even their windows and linux drivers cause problems while ATI seems to be much more stable on the hardware and driver side of things.

[alecgold]

Personaly I think the trooubles in 10.5 are not so bad. I waited until 10.5.1 was out (according to some the worst version) and didn't have much trouble. Once or twice Safari closed on me while doing nothing special, I've had Mail crash about 3 times since januari, but it stored the email I was working on. No kernel panics, no major crashes.

How different it was when I was working on a Toshiba M100, ever month it needed a clean install of XP tablet, or twice a month was also no exception. I was compelled to work on the thing otherwise I would have thrown it in a junk bin from day three when I had a really fatal crash and couldn't get it to do anything.

I think leopard has it quirks, but is overall a fairly stable and nice working OS with some nice updates from the Tiger. Certainly after 5.2 it has been working like a charm.
Perhaps some people have trouble with the 8800, but that is IMHO not as much a leopard problem as more a "driver" problem for a specific part from the Macbook pro's.

Then again, I've also read some burning & flame-grilling on the 8600 but mine is working very good and stable although it is running at 66C while everything else doesn't come above 55 Celcius. And I'm just typing this reply and being disturbed ever 30-45 seconds by some collegues with very important questions that can't have any delay. It now takes forever to type such a message.... :(
Think I'm going to give them some attention :D

[Peace]

Maybe this will be released today ?

[alecgold]

And this is a Safari problem how?

If it's crashing on Flash, I'd think that Adobe would be my first suspicion, seeing that they WRITE THE FLASH PLAYER for Safari.

I've been having some flash problems as well, now you speak of it, I got forwarded to the adobe site several times with the remark to update my flashplayer. Thought it to be a bit odd because I've got the flashplayer installed, but that could be indeed the problem.

[0racle]

Why would they release ZFS randomly for a point release?
For an inexpensive external RAID device, especially since they discontinued the xServe RAID. However, I believe that ZFS support will show up in Server long before your desktop.

[tmelvin]

I can't begin to count how many times I've had to rebuild an XP or Vista PC after an update, or after some software installs. Have never had that with OSX.

I don't think it's specific to OSX, as it is it's UNIX underpinnings. I managed a single DEC ALPHA-UNIX Database server for over 300 users. Never had issues. Vendor changed to Windows Server/SQL, and had daily reboots, patches, and problems...

[guzhogi]

I've been having some flash problems as well, now you speak of it, I got forwarded to the adobe site several times with the remark to update my flashplayer. Thought it to be a bit odd because I've got the flashplayer installed, but that could be indeed the problem.

There IS a new version of Flash out 9.0.124. Not sure if you have it installed.

[bacaramac]

I don't know why anyone would say Leopard is so Disgraceful??? I think it is great being a new Mac user for about 8 months now. I bought my Mac with Tiger and loved it. Bought Leopard and loved it. I then bought my brother's iMac from him last month and did a full restore so I had to install Tiger and then upgrade to Leopard. Tiger seemed so old and outdated when I logged on to install Leopard.

I think Leopard is a lot better then Tiger (interface and features).

[ra noodle]

i haven't read all the answers, and i'm sure my remark will anger some, and i know many of you have a computer skill level which greatly helped you cope with leopard but here it is 10.5.3 that so-called developers are "working" on and THEY ARE STILL HAVING PROBLEMS.....THIS JOBS HUSTLED AND CONNED YOU GUYS, HE SLICKED ALL OF YOU TO RUSH OUT LIKE A HOARD OF ANTS OVERWHELMING THE APPLE STORES TO BUY THIS LEOPARD OSX....and to have read what i think has been the largest amounts of complaints about this Leopard...and sure a lot of you could deal with this, some even had no problems--but the fact it that Jobs is hustling you guys, besides half s*** OSX system, he's also using cheap materials, my mbp15 2.0 the "innovative" magnetic power plug now falls off constantly because it was a totally stupid idea but Jobs con has been illusion in selling his products which are in the larger picture devolving into a clone of microsoft crap....i for one have no intention of buying anything else Apple....i know a lot of you have accepted Jobs con and think he's a god like person etcetc.....so many on these forums missed the pb12" and why the h*** didn't he just take the pb12" and shape it into a sortoflike MBA his buying crowd would have been a lot greater than what it is now.....he threw this hustling of his for slickly that he was able to pull the accessories like earphones, a connecting cord here and there, a power supply..and now how different is Apple now from the rest---not much if any in my opinion--he threw his cjips on being able to hustle the "mac community" egged on by all these mac sites and mags that go along with it and have no intention of saying it like it is.....i was stunned when i first bought the original mac mini and OSX Panther, and just could not believe how easy it was, how this brand gave added cords and the small stuffs....and now Apple to me is now different than Microsoft, this combining Microsoft OS and Mac OS on the same computer is going to end up a total disaster for all of you when suddenly out of nowhere "poof" waves of viruses and troijans will suddenly appear and cripple what you have....everyone keeps saying this oh apple has so small a market position etcetc. just wait---it will happen....I TURNED TO APPLE MAC OSX TO GET AWAY FROM THE TOTAL CRAP MICROSOFT IS ALL OF IT AND I CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHY SO MANY COMBINE THE TWO YOUR ASKING FOR PROBLEMS when the bad guys start crippling this duality.....my .02 cents............................

[flopticalcube]

That's quite a good rant but you might want to break it up a bit next time to make it more readable.

[goodcow]

I've been having some flash problems as well, now you speak of it, I got forwarded to the adobe site several times with the remark to update my flashplayer. Thought it to be a bit odd because I've got the flashplayer installed, but that could be indeed the problem.

It doesn't matter, for something as CRITICAL as Flash, if Adobe is too inept to code it properly for the Mac, then Apple needs to send engineers over to Adobe to have them fix it.

Just like Microsoft offers engineering assistance to lots of other companies in the Windows ecosystem with "critical" apps.

If $teve doesn't want to pony up the dough and pay for more engineers then he's not going to go toe to toe in the real world market.

[daneoni]

However, Safari crashes once a day at least, especially on flash pages.

I've been having some flash problems as well, now you speak of it, I got forwarded to the adobe site several times with the remark to update my flashplayer. Thought it to be a bit odd because I've got the flashplayer installed, but that could be indeed the problem.

Update your flash players, don't wait for Apple to feed it to you via SU cos you'll be waiting a looong time

[wallaby]

Speak for yourself. Leopard is doing just fine for most folks.

Also, if Leopard is 'disgraceful', then you have the choice to go to windo$, Linux, Solaris, etc.

Better yet, you could become a developer and help solve the mess as you see it for the benefit of every one.

Or, even better yet, just stick with Tiger.

[iPoodOverZune]

i haven't read all the answers, and i'm sure my remark will anger some, and i know many of you have a computer skill level which greatly helped you cope with leopard but here it is 10.5.3 that so-called developers are "working" on and THEY ARE STILL HAVING PROBLEMS.....THIS JOBS HUSTLED AND CONNED YOU GUYS, HE SLICKED ALL OF YOU TO RUSH OUT LIKE A HOARD OF ANTS OVERWHELMING THE APPLE STORES TO BUY THIS LEOPARD OSX....and to have read what i think has been the largest amounts of complaints about this Leopard...and sure a lot of you could deal with this, some even had no problems--but the fact it that Jobs is hustling you guys, besides half s*** OSX system, he's also using cheap materials, my mbp15 2.0 the "innovative" magnetic power plug now falls off constantly because it was a totally stupid idea but Jobs con has been illusion in selling his products which are in the larger picture devolving into a clone of microsoft crap....i for one have no intention of buying anything else Apple....i know a lot of you have accepted Jobs con and think he's a god like person etcetc.....so many on these forums missed the pb12" and why the h*** didn't he just take the pb12" and shape it into a sortoflike MBA his buying crowd would have been a lot greater than what it is now.....he threw this hustling of his for slickly that he was able to pull the accessories like earphones, a connecting cord here and there, a power supply..and now how different is Apple now from the rest---not much if any in my opinion--he threw his cjips on being able to hustle the "mac community" egged on by all these mac sites and mags that go along with it and have no intention of saying it like it is.....i was stunned when i first bought the original mac mini and OSX Panther, and just could not believe how easy it was, how this brand gave added cords and the small stuffs....and now Apple to me is now different than Microsoft, this combining Microsoft OS and Mac OS on the same computer is going to end up a total disaster for all of you when suddenly out of nowhere "poof" waves of viruses and troijans will suddenly appear and cripple what you have....everyone keeps saying this oh apple has so small a market position etcetc. just wait---it will happen....I TURNED TO APPLE MAC OSX TO GET AWAY FROM THE TOTAL CRAP MICROSOFT IS ALL OF IT AND I CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHY SO MANY COMBINE THE TWO YOUR ASKING FOR PROBLEMS when the bad guys start crippling this duality.....my .02 cents............................

Do you know something called punctuation? :rolleyes:

[mgsarch]

i haven't read all the answers, and i'm sure my remark will anger some, and i know many of you have a computer skill level which greatly helped you cope with leopard but here it is 10.5.3 that so-called developers are "working" on and THEY ARE STILL HAVING PROBLEMS.....THIS JOBS HUSTLED AND CONNED YOU GUYS, HE SLICKED ALL OF YOU TO RUSH OUT LIKE A HOARD OF ANTS OVERWHELMING THE APPLE STORES TO BUY THIS LEOPARD OSX....and to have read what i think has been the largest amounts of complaints about this Leopard...and sure a lot of you could deal with this, some even had no problems--but the fact it that Jobs is hustling you guys, besides half s*** OSX system, he's also using cheap materials, my mbp15 2.0 the "innovative" magnetic power plug now falls off constantly because it was a totally stupid idea but Jobs con has been illusion in selling his products which are in the larger picture devolving into a clone of microsoft crap....i for one have no intention of buying anything else Apple....i know a lot of you have accepted Jobs con and think he's a god like person etcetc.....so many on these forums missed the pb12" and why the h*** didn't he just take the pb12" and shape it into a sortoflike MBA his buying crowd would have been a lot greater than what it is now.....he threw this hustling of his for slickly that he was able to pull the accessories like earphones, a connecting cord here and there, a power supply..and now how different is Apple now from the rest---not much if any in my opinion--he threw his cjips on being able to hustle the "mac community" egged on by all these mac sites and mags that go along with it and have no intention of saying it like it is.....i was stunned when i first bought the original mac mini and OSX Panther, and just could not believe how easy it was, how this brand gave added cords and the small stuffs....and now Apple to me is now different than Microsoft, this combining Microsoft OS and Mac OS on the same computer is going to end up a total disaster for all of you when suddenly out of nowhere "poof" waves of viruses and troijans will suddenly appear and cripple what you have....everyone keeps saying this oh apple has so small a market position etcetc. just wait---it will happen....I TURNED TO APPLE MAC OSX TO GET AWAY FROM THE TOTAL CRAP MICROSOFT IS ALL OF IT AND I CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHY SO MANY COMBINE THE TWO YOUR ASKING FOR PROBLEMS when the bad guys start crippling this duality.....my .02 cents............................


that was painful ....

you get an 'F'.

[anzo]

they better fix the audio popping issue
cus it's ***** annoying

[RaceTripper]

i haven't read all the answers, and i'm sure my remark will anger some, and i know many of you have a computer skill level which greatly helped you cope with leopard but...
...
...when the bad guys start crippling this duality.....my .02 cents............................I concur with the value you put on your post. ;)

[MM2270]

They didn't have a commercial rival for their hardware until now, however.

Commercial rival? Hehehe. I gotta laugh at comments like these. Apple sells more Macs every 15 minutes that this little "company" could sell in about 3 months. Psystar is NO threat to Apple whatsoever. I liken it to a small fly buzzing around a cow. Just an annoyance it can swat away with a quick swipe of its tail.

[liberty4all]

So, did they FINALLY add Blu-Ray movie support?!

[Ant1-Hero]

good luck with bluray i wouldn't hold your breathe :rolleyes:

[seashellz]

until they get their ***** together by the time 10.5.5 comes out, I will await the announced 10.4.12

[Ant1-Hero]

the only thing I want fixed in 10.5.3 is Nvidia graphics, my MBP should not have graphical lag, or glitches, and it does.

Tiger ran like fluid, and leopard bogs down everytime you go into spaces, play a quicktime movie while multitasking, or even minimizing windows.

hurry up apple

[icoffee]

I'm still waiting on the Leopard Ultimate Extras. Oh no, wait a second, that's Vista :D Airport fixes would be a treat though. My airport hasn't really worked well since 10.5.0-1

[iLLucionist]

This seems to be a hardware-related issue specifically associated with macbooks equipped with 4 GB of RAM, accessing the dvd player. Many users have reported kernel panic. There are threads on this.

Does that include MacBook Pro's?

[barefeats]

The ATI drivers in 10.5.3 are supposed to improve performance with 3D apps including games.

If you have a Mac with an ATI Radeon 2600 GPU and a seed copy of 10.5 3, I'd love to see your results for 3D games (before and after) at high quality settings.

This driver improvement will also be key to the performance of the upcoming Radeon 3870.

[iBug2]

The ATI drivers in 10.5.3 are supposed to improve performance with 3D apps including games.

If you have a Mac with an ATI Radeon 2600 GPU and a seed copy of 10.5 3, I'd love to see your results for 3D games (before and after) at high quality settings.

This driver improvement will also be key to the performance of the upcoming Radeon 3870.

There are no new graphics drivers in 10.5.3 unfortunately.

[Chicane-UK]

It's genuinely a shock to see so many stories of problems with Leopard, and specifically 10.5.2!

I was an early adopter (got it the day it came out) and ran it on my Mac Mini (1.66GHz Core Duo) and my G5 Powermac (2x2GHz) at work - and of course it came preinstalled on the iMac I just got last week.

The only weird issue i've ever had was just on my iMac - I sent it to sleep and then came back to it two days later and it just would not wake up. I pressed keys, pressed the mouse buttons - stumped I reached round back to press the power button (assuming there had been a power cut that had switched it off) and I couldn't power it on from the power button either. I had to disconnect it from the mains!

Otherwise Leopard has been plain sailing! Updates are always welcome tho :)

[emulator]

I wonder if this will have any code in it to purposely break hackintoshes now that Psystar is shipping?you are funny. it will be AMD ready sooner than we download it from apple.com. :D

[robogobo]

the only thing I want fixed in 10.5.3 is Nvidia graphics, my MBP should not have graphical lag, or glitches, and it does.

Tiger ran like fluid, and leopard bogs down everytime you go into spaces, play a quicktime movie while multitasking, or even minimizing windows.

hurry up apple

I'm pretty sure spaces was just a cruel joke.;)

[star-affinity]

There are no new graphics drivers in 10.5.3 unfortunately.
Are you sure?

"I have replaced to the following files with their equivalent from the latest 10.5.3 seed, and the bug is gone:

/System/Library/Extensions/GeForce.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/GeForce8xxxGLDriver.bundle"

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1065674

[Bubba Satori]

Commercial rival? Hehehe. I gotta laugh at comments like these. Apple sells more Macs every 15 minutes that this little "company" could sell in about 3 months. Psystar is NO threat to Apple whatsoever. I liken it to a small fly buzzing around a cow. Just an annoyance it can swat away with a quick swipe of its tail.

Psystar is providing customers with a type of computer that Apple refuses to, despite obvious demand for it. Pride goeth before a fall.

[thekurgan]

There are no new graphics drivers in 10.5.3 unfortunately.

That's what I've heard as well, and I had to use the "Unofficial Leopard Graphics Rollback", so I could get the MBP back to reliable (before the graphics update 1.0). Now the laptop doesn't lock up and it wakes from sleep flawlessly. Maybe they should publish the graphics update 1.0 removal in the software update????

[RaceTripper]

That's what I've heard as well, and I had to use the "Unofficial Leopard Graphics Rollback", so I could get the MBP back to reliable (before the graphics update 1.0). Now the laptop doesn't lock up and it wakes from sleep flawlessly. Maybe they should publish the graphics update 1.0 removal in the software update????I had that issue until the recent firmware update. Since I installed that most of my problems (incl. wake from sleep with an ext monitor) are fixed & Leopard is mostly stable.

[iBug2]

Are you sure?

"I have replaced to the following files with their equivalent from the latest 10.5.3 seed, and the bug is gone:

/System/Library/Extensions/GeForce.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/GeForce8xxxGLDriver.bundle"

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1065674

Well the date created for all the graphics drivers is the same as the ones in Leopard Graphics Update, January 17th.

[Sky Blue]

I will await the announced 10.4.12

Apple haven't announced a 10.4.12

[CheeseheadDave]

I just picked up a Canon XSi and discovered that 10.5.2 doesn't support its RAW format. Hopefully 10.5.3 will include this.

[MartiNZ]

That's what I've heard as well, and I had to use the "Unofficial Leopard Graphics Rollback", so I could get the MBP back to reliable (before the graphics update 1.0). Now the laptop doesn't lock up and it wakes from sleep flawlessly. Maybe they should publish the graphics update 1.0 removal in the software update????

I tried that rollback on my new Feb '08 MBP and it caused more problems than it solved. It fixed the Excel system lockup on window zoom, but made most games crash on launch and caused plenty of graphics issues in Finder and such.

Probably not surprising that it didn't work right on such a new machine though - it shipped with the graphics update applied already :).

I'll just have to wait for a different fix for the Excel lockups and wake from sleep issues - I really hope 10.5.3 can do it; I was so pleased to be able to upgrade to an Intel machine and be all universal, but Office 2004 is looking pretty appealing if they don't fix the issues.

[vansouza]

Well hold on to your boots because version 29 is out.

[MartiNZ]

Well hold on to your boots because version 29 is out.

Come on, make it release version :)!

[robert05au]

Psystar will be gone soon rest assured.

The **** will hit the fan.

[alFR]

half s*** OSX system

I don't think anyone reasoned could really say that. Is it perfect? No. Are there bugs? Yes. Is it as bad as you say? No. It works fine for the majority of users.

my mbp15 2.0 the "innovative" magnetic power plug now falls off constantly because it was a totally stupid idea

All I can say is mine works fine and so do all the others I've seen. Mine has saved my laptop from being on the floor several times, so for my money it's a good idea. If yours doesn't work, contact Apple and get it repaired.

this combining Microsoft OS and Mac OS on the same computer is going to end up a total disaster for all of you when suddenly out of nowhere "poof" waves of viruses and troijans will suddenly appear and cripple what you have

Yes, as everyone knows many windows viruses/malware will also run under OS X. Oh, hang on....

If $teve doesn't want to pony up the dough and pay for more engineers then he's not going to go toe to toe in the real world market.

Yeah, with only 37% desktop and 61% laptop sales increases in the last quarter cf. last year it's clear Steve's strategy makes no sense. Shape up, Apple! :rolleyes:

[Ant1-Hero]

excellent post, good for putting that twit in his place

[SHOlover]

I've been enjoying Leopard immensely. So have many others.
Agreed! No real problems here. For those that think Leopard is a "buggy mess" spend a week with vista, and you'll change your tune real quickly. geez:rolleyes:

[mckyvlle]

Agreed! No real problems here. For those that think Leopard is a "buggy mess" spend a week with vista, and you'll change your tune real quickly. geez:rolleyes:

Rigth, Vista certainly does make me cringe. But like any gem, Leopard needs that bit of polishing to make it shine. :cool:

[Quillz]

Agreed! No real problems here. For those that think Leopard is a "buggy mess" spend a week with vista, and you'll change your tune real quickly. geez:rolleyes:I've spent months with Vista and have never had a single issue with it. I've spent a week with Leopard and got a kernel panic.

[vansouza]

I've spent months with Vista and have never had a single issue with it. I've spent a week with Leopard and got a kernel panic.

Never a single issue with Vista? ok:eek:

[MartiNZ]

Same here, Vista has been trouble free except for issues related to boot camp itself. Leopard has been far less reliable.

[star-affinity]

It's funny how some really think Vista suck and how some think it works very well.

The same goes for Leopard it seems.
Some are very happy with it and some are having trouble.

I guess it boils down to what you do and in what circumstances you do it. And what combination of hardware you have. Down to the smallest bit. No two MacBooks are the same! :)

Computers are complicated.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to the 10.5.3 update. I'm having some small issues, but nothing major, but things can always get better!

[jb60606]

I have to admit I've yet to experience a single 'bug' with the actual Vista OS. Granted, some 3rd party applications and drivers don't work with it, crash w/some functions or lose some functionality altogether, as they don't meet the stringent security measures and compatibility requirements set forth by Microsoft. But Microsoft is under no obligation to make their OS compatible with all of your favorite applications and hardware. Doing that made previous Windows versions the insecure and unstable mess we've grown to hate. 3rd party developers need to bring their apps/drivers up to spec.

IMO, Microsoft is at fault for releasing the OS too early. They were also far too liberal with their hardware requirements; Vista needs a high powered CPU with a minimum of 2GB of RAM. Allowing Dell and alike to sell it on a Celeron/Duron box with 512MB of RAM was a ****ing absurdity.

[harrier]

More bug fixes is good news. Instability is not.

I hope Apple takes their sweet time with 10.5.3, and gets this release right.

Let's be honest: Leopard is a disgraceful, buggy mess. And it was released to the public way too early.

I don't want to wait until 10.5.6 to get things right, and I'm not expecting zero bugs. But Spaces still makes no sense, apps crash all the time, and there are just so many bugs. So, so many bugs.

I hope Apple takes another month or so, get a few more hundred bugs out of the way, and release a version of Leopard that is worthy of the Apple name.

What kinds of problems are you experiencing?

I use Spaces (4) all of the time. Virtual Desktops have been around for >20 years and for those of us who have lots of windows open, are a great organization tool.

I haven't noticed a single significant problem with Leopard but everyone's experience is different -- the type of applications, memory usage -- bad memory..., and the hardware. I've had a couple apps crash occasionally but so far no corruption or catastrophes.

I think Leopard is a resounding success.

[Quillz]

I have to admit I've yet to experience a single 'bug' with the actual Vista OS. Granted, some 3rd party applications and drivers don't work with it, crash w/some functions or lose some functionality altogether, as they don't meet the stringent security measures and compatibility requirements set forth by Microsoft. But Microsoft is under no obligation to make their OS compatible with all of your favorite applications and hardware. Doing that made previous Windows versions the insecure and unstable mess we've grown to hate. 3rd party developers need to bring their apps/drivers up to spec.

IMO, Microsoft is at fault for releasing the OS too early. They were also far too liberal with their hardware requirements; Vista needs a high powered CPU with a minimum of 2GB of RAM. Allowing Dell and alike to sell it on a Celeron/Duron box with 512MB of RAM was a ****ing absurdity.
It's not absurdity, because Vista runs fine with 512 MB of RAM. Do you get Aero Glass? Maybe not, but Vista will still run. And my Dell laptop with only 1 GB of RAM runs Vista perfectly, and with full eye candy. And it is a Core Duo, too, at 1.66 GHz. A good processor, but not exactly a powerhouse.

[Quillz]

Never a single issue with Vista? ok:eek:
Why do you act so surprised? I assume you've never used Vista and simply listen to "techie" bloggers who have nothing better to do than spread FUD.

[Chicane-UK]

My experiences with Vista have been enormously disappointing. I've tried it now on numerous occasions on various computers and i've been constantly unimpressed at just how much more lethargic it is compared to XP and how little I like the changes they made. That said, I do like Aero Glass a lot as a theme, and the WPF system seems pretty good... there is certainly no problem with how it looks IMHO.

Most recently I decided to cast aside my cynical opinion and install Vista on my work PC (Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz, Intel Mobo, 3GB RAM) - after the initial joy of having a pretty OS again (after the dull greyness of XP) I just began to get thoroughly frustrated with it. Even after applying Service Pack 1 I didn't find it any better. I'd used it for about 4 months but when XPSP3 came out I knew it was time to do a clean build of that and go back to compare it. XP just works so so much better for me, for a computer on which I want maximum speed / resources to be as productive as possible.

I've tried a LOT to get on with Vista, but just continually find things which don't work right or where 'workarounds' have been put in place for things that should have never got where they were in the first place. The final straw was bugs in the sleep mode - whenever I woke the computer up, my second drive would keep going back to sleep again after 20 seconds or so of inactivity. Only a reboot would cure it.

Leopard has, in contrast, been an eye opening experience. As a long time Windows user, its a breath of fresh air using something just so well designed and well thought out. I adore it.

[Ilomoga]

I'm using Vista and Leopard and don't have any problems with both of them. The only two problems I had was that Safari crashed all the time when using it with the latest Flash on 10.5.1 - this has been fixed in 10.5.2, so at the moment my Leopard works nearly perfect. The other problem I had seems not to be related to Leopard, which has been problems connecting to the WLAN of my school (shortly connected, then disconnected - when I connected manually I got the message the key was wrong). However, some of my school colleagues had the same problem (not to be able to connect to the WLAN) with Vista.

[retro83]

Does anybody know if this fixes the album artwork not showing in Front Row + iTunes when accessing a shared library?

[ilovetomac]

[QUTOE] Psystar is merely an experiment, not even an annoyance.[/QUOTE]

While correct it does not justice to the importance of Psystar. Actual market impact is minimal now but mental impact is different. Like

Drives home to Apple the point not to neglegt the offerings at lower prices & w/o screen - influencing Apple's Mac mini roadmap
Will remind Apple that at a certain market share they can't cover sufficiently the necessary diverse hardware and they have to allow second sources.
Advertises to everyone that in theory it could be done which will

Make Apple more invest into defensive moves (patents, some propriatory extension)
Make other bystanders aware of their options and turn the into possible Apple suitors
Make Microsoft more aware just how easily the unthinkable could be pulled off.

[sgtpetter]

I don't want to be rash and say "i'm moving back to tiger" because...

Being a Digidesign Pro Tools user I only wish it was possible to move back to Tiger. I have a brand new iMac here, bought solely to run Pro Tools. I can't, because the machine won't downgrade to Tiger...

Just hear what Digidesign's General Manager Dave Lebolt has to say;
As is often the case with entirely new major OS versions, there were some quick "dot" releases after introduction. Many of the problems that Apple addressed in these dot releases were critical to improve OS X Leopard operations (you can read about some of them on the support section of Apple's website). These improvements and fixes were very valuable to a broad base of Mac users. Unfortunately, the currently shipping OS X Leopard release, 10.5.2, contains some changes that actually caused problems with Pro Tools (and some other apps as well). In our case, the problems included audio interfaces not being recognized by the computer, track counts dropping to near zero, and errors coming up during normal operation. Some of you who may have experimented with Pro Tools and OS X Leopard 10.5.2 may have encountered some of these problems.

More here;
http://duc.digidesign.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1259137&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=186&fpart=1#1259137