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silbeej
May 6, 2008, 05:29 PM
I'm a sophomore at university, and as an engineering major, i have to say we are the dumbest smart people there are. Every day i get terrible grades and keep asking myself why i shouldn't just drop out and become a finance major or something. I almost certainly just failed my differential equations exam, so i'll probably have to take the class over again. Who out there is in my boat, which happens to be sinking at a fairly quick rate.

SpookTheHamster
May 6, 2008, 06:03 PM
I'm an engineering student at uni, but I'm not flunking anything. I didn't take maths at college so I find it a lot harder than everyone I know, but that just means I work harder to get the A's.

If you're getting bad grades and you're actually smart, it probably means you should work harder.

LethalWolfe
May 6, 2008, 06:05 PM
If you're getting bad grades and you're actually smart, it probably means you should work harder.
Or you're just delusional.:p


Lethal

Sun Baked
May 6, 2008, 06:07 PM
Don't worry think about it this way, since it puts thing in perspective.

My friend was an engineering major, he was teaching class at a trade school to future engineering technicians.

Eventually as an engineer he would design stuff, and these technicians would likely be the ones helping him build the product, run the production lines, or read his plans.

He struggle with his classes, went to these classes to teach the people doing the building -- and first had to teach them how to use a calculator.

Not a scientific calculator, but the standard 4 function calculator (+ - * /).

Not too silly also when these people were getting job retraining and some were also working on their GED.

devilot
May 6, 2008, 06:10 PM
This thread title... is too true. But I mean it in a more serious way, and not just about academic grades. Life concepts. I swear, some programmers and engineers can think and complete such complex tasks, but fail to actually hear and comprehend the simplest most straightforward statements or questions. And yes, I'm speaking from (painful) personal experience. :o

sushi
May 6, 2008, 06:19 PM
silbeej, I went the EE/CS route in college. My experience with friends and associates back then was that most had one area (at least) that challenged them.

New concepts can be a bear to grasp at times, while others are easy. Studying harder is a good solution to be sure. But for those hard to understand concepts, a good tutor might be worth a try. Just hearing about the concepts from a different perspective can make things become simple -- as in the preverbal light illuminates. :)

Abstract
May 6, 2008, 06:23 PM
....as an engineering major, i have to say we are the dumbest smart people there are. Every day i get terrible grades and keep asking myself why i shouldn't just drop out and become a finance major or something.

You assume engineering students are smart just because they study engineering. I'm sorry, but an engineering student who gets bad grades is just as dumb as anyone else. Some of the dumbest people I knew when doing my undergrad/Bachelors degree were engineers with bad grades. ;)

What is the purpose of university? One of them is learning how to learn. When you have trouble with a particular subject, you probably just keep staring at the same textbook, re-reading the same pages for a week in hopes that you'll understand it soon. What most dumb engineers, or students in general, don't think to do is use their resources. If you don't get this concept by your 4th year at uni, forget it. Regardless of your grades, you totally missed the point. If you don't understand one book, use another textbook. There's always more than one source of information, and one may be clearer than another. That's the difference between a Masters/PhD student, and an undergraduate student. On the other hand, I also believe that's the difference between a good student and a bad student. The bad student gets bad grades, but thinks he's smart.

And to top it all off, many engineers can't think in any way other than logically, making them "bad at life". That has nothing to do with being a bad student, but it does mean that many engineers are better at things like logic, but completely fail at other things such as feelings and empathy.

dukebound85
May 6, 2008, 06:35 PM
I'm a sophomore at university, and as an engineering major, i have to say we are the dumbest smart people there are.

sorry i take offense. i am graduating this spring summa cum laude in mechanical engineering. are there idiots in every major? yes. is engineering one of the most demanding majors as well? yes

instead of stereotyping all engineers as dumb i would suggest that you look at yourself and see if you can even handle the course load

This thread title... is too true. But I mean it in a more serious way, and not just about academic grades. Life concepts. I swear, some programmers and engineers can think and complete such complex tasks, but fail to actually hear and comprehend the simplest most straightforward statements or questions. And yes, I'm speaking from (painful) personal experience. :o

you are stereotyping here...i know so many engineering students myself included who are more involved than most people in college. to say that we dont have life concepts and such is just ignorant. sure some fit that profile and frankly its rarer than you would think

i mean i know some art students who think they are sooooo deep with their views on the world to the point i think its amusing and sad. i also know art students who are real chill and not at all strange. every major has its oddballs

i agree with the first two paragraphs that abstract wrote. the third is iffy as its assuming. you cant just coast through an engineering degree like you can with a hs degree, heck i didnt even try in hs. it takes dedication and the wanting to do well


my views on college is this:
teaches you work ethic. if you have good work ethic you will at least pass the class from my experience.

i remember specifically my soph and junior year, i would have to do hw EVERY night of the week out of fear i would fall behind. and im not talking like a hr a night either....

if you are stuggling with the class, go to office hrs, ask fellow students, whatever. if there is a will there is a way

silbeej
May 6, 2008, 06:36 PM
In hindsight, i need to go to rateyourprofessor.com a little more often. Some of my bad grades have been linked to crappy professors, and lots of my classmates agree with me on that.

got to love the internet.

I'm not calling engineers dumb, i'm just saying that we stick it out for the long haul, when a few of my engineering peers have dropped out because they didn't want to put up with the work. I'm just hoping it will be worth it in the end.

OzExige
May 6, 2008, 06:45 PM
............

I'm just hoping it will be worth it in the end.

It will be but, as with everything else, you must gain practical experience, work on your car, pull your laptop apart, dismantle a washing machine, a micro wave, hard drive, video recorder, etc etc etc.
If you can't do it in real life.... it ain't real ..... do it and have fun! :)

dukebound85
May 6, 2008, 06:46 PM
In hindsight, i need to go to rateyourprofessor.com a little more often. Some of my bad grades have been linked to crappy professors, and lots of my classmates agree with me on that.

got to love the internet.

I'm not calling engineers dumb, i'm just saying that we stick it out for the long haul, when a few of my engineering peers have dropped out because they didn't want to put up with the work. I'm just hoping it will be worth it in the end.

your school may have its own teacher ratings site. i know mine does and i ALWAYS make it a point to get good teachers when i can. having ****** teachers suck for sure


as far as it being worth it, once you start getting offers of 55k,60k and even more its kinda nice.

silbeej
May 6, 2008, 06:51 PM
It will be but, as with everything else, you must gain practical experience, work on your car, pull your laptop apart, dismantle a washing machine, a micro wave, hard drive, video recorder, etc etc etc.
If you can't do it in real life.... it ain't real ..... do it and have fun! :)

Yeah, i've always been fairly good in math and science through highschool, so ppl told me i should be an engineer, which i had interest in. However, as far as real world knowledge goes, i can work on cars, i know how to drywall, insulate, wire a house (installed electrical outlet when i was 12) know how to manage money, and moved out when i was 17 (so i could go to university). So as far as real world knowledge, i think i got it. I guess if the US economy starts to fail, i'll be one of the few ppl who would go from a white collar job to a blue collar job and not be too bad at it.

Lets just hope it doesn't come to that.:rolleyes:

Oh, and i also built my computer.

Rodimus Prime
May 6, 2008, 06:53 PM
You assume engineering students are smart just because they study engineering. I'm sorry, but an engineering student who gets bad grades is just as dumb as anyone else. Some of the dumbest people I knew when doing my undergrad/Bachelors degree were engineers with bad grades. ;)

What is the purpose of university? One of them is learning how to learn. When you have trouble with a particular subject, you probably just keep staring at the same textbook, re-reading the same pages for a week in hopes that you'll understand it soon. What most dumb engineers, or students in general, don't think to do is use their resources. If you don't get this concept by your 4th year at uni, forget it. Regardless of your grades, you totally missed the point. If you don't understand one book, use another textbook. There's always more than one source of information, and one may be clearer than another. That's the difference between a Masters/PhD student, and an undergraduate student. On the other hand, I also believe that's the difference between a good student and a bad student. The bad student gets bad grades, but thinks he's smart.

And to top it all off, many engineers can't think in any way other than logically, making them "bad at life". That has nothing to do with being a bad student, but it does mean that many engineers are better at things like logic, but completely fail at other things such as feelings and empathy.


I might want to point out you can not compared GPA from different university very well nor can you compare Different college's in the same university.

The College of engineering across almost all Universities tend to have the lowest or one of the lowest GPA average. It also has one of the lowest graduation rate of people who started in the program to those who finish (less than 40% the historic average for graduation rate for Universities is about 66%)

Engineering is one of the most difficult majors out there. Partly because the subject manner is hard but also because it requires being good at things across multiple things and lets face it very few people are great at everything. The major is more broad than most.

Now I will say as some one who as a degree from the college of engineering and multiple friends who are engineers. We are just different. We think differently than most people. We see the world differently. Also we have a hard time with communicating with non engineers because they do not think like us.

Also EE are even special among the engineers so that make them very strange people..

OzExige
May 6, 2008, 07:42 PM
.....

However, as far as real world knowledge goes, i can work on cars, i know how to drywall, insulate, wire a house (installed electrical outlet when i was 12) know how to manage money, and moved out when i was 17 (so i could go to university). So as far as real world knowledge, i think i got it. I guess if the US economy starts to fail, i'll be one of the few ppl who would go from a white collar job to a blue collar job and not be too bad at it.

Lets just hope it doesn't come to that.:rolleyes:

Oh, and i also built my computer.

Hey, congratulations, you're more than half way there and don't worry about the economy, there's enough people doing that for you. The economy will turn around by this time next year and APPL will be past $300, enjoy :)

Abstract
May 6, 2008, 07:54 PM
Now I will say as some one who as a degree from the college of engineering and multiple friends who are engineers. We are just different. We think differently than most people. We see the world differently. Also we have a hard time with communicating with non engineers because they do not think like us.

Tell me about it. I'm working on a PhD. You'll never guess in which faculty. ;)


All I meant was that to claim engineers to be "the smartest dumb people around" implies, wrongly, that engineering students are smart, even those who get bad grades. I'm not talking about the average GPA in your faculty, or whatever you use. I'm just saying that while many engineers do poorly, many assume they do so because while they're smart (?), it's a difficult degree to get. Maybe, juuuuust maybe, some students just pass their subject by 5 or 10% because they're not as smart as they think they are, even if they are engineering students. ;)

LethalWolfe's short reply is also very true. ;)

sushi
May 6, 2008, 07:57 PM
In hindsight, i need to go to rateyourprofessor.com a little more often. Some of my bad grades have been linked to crappy professors, and lots of my classmates agree with me on that.
You might just want to learn to deal with the situation.

This will help you later on in life.

I might want to point out you can not compared GPA from different university very well nor can you compare Different college's in the same university.
Very true.

Also EE are even special among the engineers so that make them very strange people..
Hey, hey, hey! Don't go bashing us EE guys/gals! ;)

adroit
May 6, 2008, 08:10 PM
Who out there is in my boat, which happens to be sinking at a fairly quick rate.

Naw, that's just you. May be if you jump out it will start floating again. ;)

Really, you shouldn't be failing any classes. From my experience people who fail their classes never end up graduating/ moved to different faculties.

I rarely get to choose the classes I take since most classes were offered once a year and they are prerequisite for other classes that I need to take. Having bad professors sucks but you should be able to deal with it. It's good to learn different teaching styles and learn how to learn by yourself.

Edit: I also agree with Abstract that engineers with bad grades are just as bad as other bad students.

iJohnHenry
May 6, 2008, 08:15 PM
I'm just hoping it will be worth it in the end.

Let me know what building/bridges you will be designing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Ring

ToddW
May 7, 2008, 08:32 AM
You might just want to learn to deal with the situation.

This will help you later on in life.


Very true.


Hey, hey, hey! Don't go bashing us EE guys/gals! ;)

I take offense to that remark. I'm an EE and not that strange. Also Aero Engineers and Software Engineers are way stranger than I am.

:)

Schnebar
May 7, 2008, 09:07 AM
I am a High School Senior and going to GA Tech next year to be a Mechanical Engineer. The average GPA is like a 2.0 but that is because the classes are hard. It is not because the people are dumb. They need to make sure you understand the material before you go on to the next level of classes.

dukebound85
May 7, 2008, 02:23 PM
I am a High School Senior and going to GA Tech next year to be a Mechanical Engineer. The average GPA is like a 2.0 but that is because the classes are hard. It is not because the people are dumb. They need to make sure you understand the material before you go on to the next level of classes.

low gpa are a combination of
1) hard classes
2) lazy students

i have a very hard time believing ga tech's average engr gpa is a 2.0 lol. my guess would be high 2's or low 3's

kgarner
May 7, 2008, 02:36 PM
I was a ME major before I flunked out and switched to web design. I think I am much happier now than I would have been, but that may just be because I didn't flunk out of Digital Media. <shrugs>

Rodimus Prime
May 7, 2008, 08:23 PM
low gpa are a combination of
1) hard classes
2) lazy students

i have a very hard time believing ga tech's average engr gpa is a 2.0 lol. my guess would be high 2's or low 3's

I would not say lazy students. More like I point out is engineering majors are required to cover a very broad range of topics in there major. This hurts them.

I did civil for 2.5 years before I changed over to constuction. The Structural classes where easy for me. I struggled in the water classes.

Sun Baked
May 7, 2008, 08:35 PM
Really funny thing about engineering, they send you through all these weedout courses -- slam you with insane math.

Then when you are nearly finished and sampling some grad level courses, they start telling you to use SWAG answers to get you in the ballpark, and show you some shortcuts to get around the math.

I sort of like the insanity of some of the math that takes you a half hour to solve, and then how some of the graphical transformations of the problems make it a 30 second problem.

I've sat there and finished a grad level test in 5 minutes using transformations, sat there and stared at people diligently working on it ... said crap i might as well hand it in.

Ended up with the high score, and a test that only had a few chicken scratches on it. Couple/few graphs, and my circuit diagrams for amplifiers and filters.

Rodimus Prime
May 7, 2008, 11:28 PM
while I find it something bother some to learn the hard way then figure out about the short cut I do think it is important to understand why those short cuts work.

I do agree one goes though hell learning the long way then they show you the short cuts.

Heck there are some things I can only do by short cuts today because I forgot how to do the long way

yojitani
May 8, 2008, 01:44 AM
You might just want to learn to deal with the situation.

This will help you later on in life.




Really. rate-my-profs is just a place for whiny students to let of hot air.

sushi
May 8, 2008, 02:01 AM
Really funny thing about engineering, they send you through all these weedout courses -- slam you with insane math.

Then when you are nearly finished and sampling some grad level courses, they start telling you to use SWAG answers to get you in the ballpark, and show you some shortcuts to get around the math.
<snip>

This brought back memories of an EE design class. We were designing simple filter circuits, if memory serves, and I was way behind in some other classes. So rather do the complex math required to design the circuit and prepare the lab report, I used a bunch of variable capacitors, resistors, etc. I tuned them to get the precise output desired based upon the input.

At the time, any variation had to be explained in minute detail, so my method saved me hours upon hours of written lab report work in which most math was done by hand using the Hudson Manual and a slide rule.

This technique saved my bacon on more than one occasion. However, I finally was discovered when the head of the department dropped by to say hi and see how I was doing. At the time, I was a favorite student in the department and had good grades. Well, he asked me to explain what I was doing, so I did. I actually brought a tear of disappointment to his eye for using my short cut. But all I could say in my defense was that I was failing another course and needed to devote more time to that course. He understood. But that did not removed his disappointment even though he thought that my work around method was rather good.

Such is life.

Anyhow, we all know that only true engineers have pocket protectors and wear T-Shirts that extend out from under their short sleeve shirts! ;) :p :D

Really. rate-my-profs is just a place for whiny students to let of hot air.
Sometimes it is just better to move on. Whining can come back to haunt you.

As someone once told me, when you are pissed, write a letter or E-mail message. But don't send it. Wait a week. Then see if you really need to send it. They also said, do not address your e-mail incase you accidentally hit the send button. :eek:

atszyman
May 8, 2008, 06:30 AM
Also EE are even special among the engineers so that make them very strange people..

I should probably take offense to that, but every time I talk work my wife's eyes glaze over and she starts nodding while working on a Sudoku puzzle...:D

Hey, hey, hey! Don't go bashing us EE guys/gals! ;)

You know female EEs?

I take offense to that remark. I'm an EE and not that strange. Also Aero Engineers and Software Engineers are way stranger than I am.

:)

I do have to say that CS majors were easier to pick out on my undergrad campus than any other major...

Really funny thing about engineering, they send you through all these weedout courses -- slam you with insane math.

Then when you are nearly finished and sampling some grad level courses, they start telling you to use SWAG answers to get you in the ballpark, and show you some shortcuts to get around the math.

I sort of like the insanity of some of the math that takes you a half hour to solve, and then how some of the graphical transformations of the problems make it a 30 second problem.

I've sat there and finished a grad level test in 5 minutes using transformations, sat there and stared at people diligently working on it ... said crap i might as well hand it in.

Ended up with the high score, and a test that only had a few chicken scratches on it. Couple/few graphs, and my circuit diagrams for amplifiers and filters.

The transforms can be great tools, of course you will find quite a few Professors who like to take it to the extreme and use some of the most obscure transforms to write an insanely long test (doing it the brute force method) thinking that "if you know the tricks you can be done in 30 minutes." Of course once you start working in the real world you find that every formula you took forever to memorize in your undergrad days is fairly worthless when Google is at your fingertips. I actually got into some arguments with grad school professors who wanted us to do some of the math by hand on an exam since I hadn't done any of that math in years and whenever it would come up I'd search for the tables/transforms at my computer rather than have to know which bits to put on the notes sheet we were allowed for the exam. While knowing how to do it can be useful, knowing where to find the information can be a more powerful tool than having the formula's memorized.

Anyhow, we all know that only true engineers have pocket protectors and wear T-Shirts that extend out from under their short sleeve shirts! ;) :p :D

I haven't even posted a picture here yet but somehow you seem to know what I look like! :D

adroit
May 8, 2008, 01:13 PM
You know female EEs?

Me :D

sushi
May 9, 2008, 11:15 AM
You know female EEs?
Yes, as a matter of fact I do, both single and married types.

One has a dual masters (EE and CS) and cute as a bug. About as big too.

The other one, soft cuddly type, but is also a black belt in Kendo.

Another one, enjoys baking on the side and is quite a gourmet chief -- especially pastries.

I haven't even posted a picture here yet but somehow you seem to know what I look like! :D
:D

iJohnHenry
May 9, 2008, 06:25 PM
Where were these women when I was young???

Love tiny, intelligent woman. :o

Kendo?? Love that sport. :cool:

Pastries? OMG. :eek:

You sure hang around in nice circles.

rhsgolfer33
May 9, 2008, 09:17 PM
Really. rate-my-profs is just a place for whiny students to let of hot air.

Totally agree. I've had some good professors that were very lowly rated on ratemyprofessors.com. It seems like most of the people on there are just too lazy to do the work or take the time to get help and talk to professors outside of class, so they complain about their C's on there. I've never had any of the problems people complain of on there, but then again, I do most of the work too.

sushi
May 10, 2008, 01:00 AM
You sure hang around in nice circles.
:D

I thought you might enjoy these two home electrical modifications. :p

yeroen
May 10, 2008, 01:25 AM
It's no revelation, as I later found out, that EE is by far and away the favorite field of study for those with Aspergers (the male ones, anyway).

With few exceptions, most EE's I met in the course of university exhibited at least borderline autism, and often very much beyond borderline.

iJohnHenry
May 10, 2008, 09:54 AM
:D

I thought you might enjoy these two home electrical modifications. :p

http://www.childrensmuseum.org/special_exhibits/good_grief/images/logo_goodgrief.jpg

Is that a cookie tin as a junction box? :eek:

nanofrog
May 10, 2008, 10:45 AM
:D

I thought you might enjoy these two home electrical modifications. :p

A perfect example for a text book!:D

Are those scorch marks on the switch/outlet cover by the way?:eek:

Reminds me of my dad.:cool: