iPhone No Longer Available in UK

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2008/05/08/030846-uk_300.png
(http://shop.o2.co.uk/iPhone)
Engadget reports (http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/08/iphone-is-good-and-done-in-the-uk-until-the-3g-version-anywa/) that O2 (http://www.o2.co.uk/) has posted a notice (http://shop.o2.co.uk/iPhone) on their website that both the 8GB and 16GB iPhones are no longer available in the UK. This confirms (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/04/25/8gb-iphone-end-of-lifed-in-uk/) earlier reports that O2 had end-of-life'd the 8GB iPhone, though it appears even the 16GB iPhone has also run its course.

While the next generation iPhone has been long rumored, most expectations have pointed to an announcement at Apple's Worldwide Developer's Conference which is not scheduled for more than a month from now.

Meanwhile, we have heard that U.S. stock for the 8GB iPhone has also dwindled down dramatically with few new shipments coming in.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/05/08/iphone-no-longer-available-in-uk/)

[gifford]

thats a long gap til late june

[arn]

so, the question becomes... is Apple really going to stop selling the iPhone altogether in the UK for the next 4 weeks?

I suppose sales probably dwindled down anyway, but it's still surprising they let it get to 0.

arn

[djellison]

For the phone to really take off, the 3G version must be available across multiple carriers, on both pay monthly, and pay as you go.

But I, like a lot of people, will not pay £250+ for a phone, AND £35+ a month for a contract I simply don't need.

Doug

[swagi]

O.K. Just seems plausible, as I just bought an iPhone for my wife.

Now could we please get the next iteration out?

[stephenli]

i suppose this is the first time for such kind of announcement on Apple products. Isn't it better to let users know for a new product is coming within a month?! Or, isn't it better to lower the price for the current lineup of iPhone?

[G4DP]

Is it just me, or has this not been fully thought through?

Leaving a over a months gap. Most people are going to think that it is no longer available at all, not just being replaced in June/July.

This is a bad idea.

[thelairster]

It's too spooky and too long until the end of june. Maybe they will dust off some unsold newtons to bridge the gap?

[swagi]

so, the question becomes... is Apple really going to stop selling the iPhone altogether in the UK for the next 4 weeks?

I suppose sales probably dwindled down anyway, but it's still surprising they let it get to 0.

arn

I can't imagine, that a CEO thinks this is a wise decision. Four weeks of absolutely NO iPhone sale will send the stock price down. I'm currently desperately waiting on news, or I should just sell my stock!

[Omni Geno]

Or maybe they'll announce the 3G iPhone this Tuesday.

[queshy]

lol, randomness. I guess all it means is that a new rev. is coming SOON.

[sjo]

well, no longer available from o2 in uk. apple store uk seems to be selling them with shipping within 24h. o2 just got rid of their stock. maybe they're taking a break to decide whether to carry the next generation model or not, and on what terms.

[Bakey]

Is this not reminiscent to the iMac debacle from way back?

[EricNau]

I guess we can expect a release on or near WWDC, as compared to an announcement with a release in the following months.

They probably figure it's pointless to sell these phones weeks before another release, causing another outrage in which they have to issue giftcards.

[bozs13]

this development is making me antsy :)

[Project]

It could simply be an inventory issue. They knew that the 3G iPhone was coming on a certain date but realised that they had a backlog of them which they just wouldn't be able to sell in that time frame.

So they introduce the subsidy and it sells out far quicker than expected. Leaving the gap we have now.

A minor anecdote... I went 4 months without seeing another iPhone in the UK. In the past few weeks I have spotted at least 10.

[jmadlena]

I can't imagine, that a CEO thinks this is a wise decision. Four weeks of absolutely NO iPhone sale will send the stock price down. I'm currently desperately waiting on news, or I should just sell my stock!

I don't think it would be a good idea to sell your Apple stock just because there _might_ be a downturn temporarily. I think we all know that Apple is going a lot higher than $183. If you believe in the company and that it is a sound investment, stick with them.

My 2¢.

[Project]

I can't imagine, that a CEO thinks this is a wise decision. Four weeks of absolutely NO iPhone sale will send the stock price down. I'm currently desperately waiting on news, or I should just sell my stock!


It is available in the UK Apple stores.

[adamjohn_98]

US Apple Store now quoting 5-7 business day shipping time on BOTH 8gb and 16gb...Is this new?

[OllyW]

It is available in the UK Apple stores.

Yes, but it's still at the full price. It only started selling well when O2 and Carphone Warehouse dropped the price.

[mooty]

I guess this puts to rest the possible "August summer holiday" release for Europe of the next-gen iPhone... There is no way Apple would make the phone unavailable for this long.

[t0mat0]

I can't imagine, that a CEO thinks this is a wise decision. Four weeks of absolutely NO iPhone sale will send the stock price down. I'm currently desperately waiting on news, or I should just sell my stock!

You were around for the Letter Jobs had to write due to the price drop angering people? Don't you think the world would want a subtle sign a new phone is coming? Not being able to (easily) buy the current version helps the uninformed customer.

What's 4 weeks of sales? Jeeez - They'll sell that amount in the first few days. Apple is ratcheting up the tension and anticipation, to get it all ready to be turned into sales.

The stock is going to go FLYING UP, due to the amazing new products that have been in the infamous pipeline.
If you're that short sighted, I wouldn't recommend having stock.

It was "by" August mooty :) Here's to that being this side of July.

[Willis]

This doesnt take into account it's retail stores.

I went into one of the 02 store in Nottingham last tuesday, when the 8GB model was already sold out, yet they still had some in stock.

I think that simply represents the online store. But then, I could be wrong. I will have to go past the 02 store in Lincoln today and see if they still have a poster up.

Lincoln isnt that big of a place, I'm pretty sure they'll have stock in.

[johnnyjibbs]

Cool! Can't wait for the 3G version.

LOL! I guess it takes a while for the Google ads to update... :D:D

[TheSpecialist]

US Apple Store now quoting 5-7 business day shipping time on BOTH 8gb and 16gb...Is this new?

Correct, expecting a 3G iPhone ANY moment now:D:D:D!

[Peace]

If the new 3G iPhone comes out sooner than later this means the Macbooks and Macbook Pros are coming at WWDC.

[senzung]

It's really hard to estimate O2's UK iphone sale.

I'd estimate roughly more than half of the so-called UK stock has been traded to sell in China. A friend's friend works at a Carphone Newcastle shop sold 200 iphones on first day when price slashed by £100 to several Chinese "students" ...

[SirOmega]

This is really weird. I wasnt expecting anything to be discontinued until June 1.

[IHateUserNames]

Is it just me, or has this not been fully thought through?

Leaving a over a months gap. Most people are going to think that it is no longer available at all, not just being replaced in June/July.

This is a bad idea.

Yeah, that doesn't make much sense. Maybe Apple will announce the 3G iPhone sooner than we think (special event in May?).

[Project]

Yes, but it's still at the full price.

I know. Not sure what your point is.

[nomad01]

well, no longer available from o2 in uk. apple store uk seems to be selling them with shipping within 24h. o2 just got rid of their stock. maybe they're taking a break to decide whether to carry the next generation model or not, and on what terms.

Well lets hope another carrier doesn't pick up the next iPhone... or there'll be no cheap way of upgrading. I don't mind starting my contract over from scratch with O2 but I'm not coughing up for another contract with somebody else to run concurrently.

[Matthew Yohe]

For the phone to really take off, the 3G version must be available across multiple carriers, on both pay monthly, and pay as you go.

Wrong.

Pay as you go... bandwidth? How will that let the phone "really take off"?


I can't imagine, that a CEO thinks this is a wise decision. Four weeks of absolutely NO iPhone sale will send the stock price down. I'm currently desperately waiting on news, or I should just sell my stock!

Yeah, I would recommend full divestment. Brilliant idea.

No iPhone sales out of O2 is not something to be concerned about. There is no reason Apple can't continue to sell truckloads from their online store, and that is exactly where O2 employees will send people.

[BongoBanger]

02 are probably no longer selling the iPhone on-line because the iPhone hasn't been the success they hoped it would be. Having had to reduce the cost of the 8GB unit to barely break even prices and noting that the 16GB unit still isn't shifting in significant numbers they're cutting their losses on the current version of the iPhone by closing inventory channels and running down retail stock.

Pretty standard business practice.

[Dagless]

Yea, o2 aren't going to sit back and wait for June.

[prisoner54]

I agree, the tension is high, and because of stock mismanagement O2 must be embarassing Apple right now. And i'm definitely going for the next-gen. But why so little stock to O2 in the first place? And the high price relative to other countries (before discount)? I mean, Macs are actually priced well considering the exchange rate, unlike iPods and iPhones. Enough so that I bought my iPod Touch in the US and saved £££s. Question is, why? :mad:

One possible answer: we're going to see such a huge step up in terms of rolling out iPod 2 internationally that the UK was one of the few places for early adopters (limited stock plus high price) - increasingly the UK is only one amongst a vast array of lucrative territories.... shame. And our soldiers have fought and died alongside yours in Iraq and Afghanistan, and we have that post-WWII 'special relationship' and all...

[shadowmoses]

My take is that its just o2 stopping selling them for a while. They are waiting for the next rev (3G) iPhone as it is something that will potentially crack the UK market.
Rest assured you will still be able to purchase the iPhone from the UK Apple Store.

ShadoW

[monica23]

I would like to bring up the rumor that popped up a few weks ago that the 3G iPhone would be released in May. In case you missed it here is the rumor (http://switchtoamac.com/site/3g-iphone-in-may-new-mobile-device-at-wwdc-2008.html).

Considering that the current iPhone is sold out in the UK, the availability of only the 16GB in the US, and all the news lately of Apple signing deals with more and more carriers I think it is more plausable now that the rumor may actually have some legs behind it.

How can there be no sales of the iPhone in the UK for 4 weeks or more? Apple wouldn't let it happen and would have ensured an adequate supply. There's something going on and I'm sure news will be out sooner rather than later.

[johnnyjibbs]

I suspect that, when O2 reduced the price of the iPhone by £100 for the promotion due to flagging sales, it did not expect as much of a phenominal jump in sales as it experienced (even though it is not surprising as it was lowered under the magical £200 barrier).

There have been reports of supply problems on the 8GB for a while now because of this promotion, although the 16GB model (which had no price drop) is harder to explain (unless they simply didn't buy as many, knowing it would be more niche due to price).

I suspect that they severely underestimated the amount of stock that would shift due to the promotion and have simply sold out - leaving them in the tricky situation now. I agree though that they could have made the banner hint that it is only a temporary situation (so that people do not think that the iPhone has been discontinued forever!)

This hypothesis would be consistent with reports that some retail stores still have some stock, although I suspect that once it's gone it's gone.

All this can only mean that the 3G iPhone is coming - but I don't think we can imply that O2 will not be a carrier - simply that they don't know or can't tell us about the 3G version yet.

This may, however, prompt Apple into announcing it earlier than planned, which would make sense considering that the cat is pretty much out of the bag now anyway...

[ascender]

Surely its very strange though given how popular the iPhone has been since the price drop by O2. There's still forums on lots of non-Apple sites with people talking about buying an iPhone and where to find one. You'd have thought they'd request more stock from Apple and make the most of the demand?

Can a new iPhone really be imminent?

[g00k]

Days Since Update 92 (Avg = 111) :rolleyes:
shouldnt be a surprise

[adom]

Heh, busy day for technology / mobile market. Carphone Warehouse, whom sell the iPhone on O2 in the UK have sold half of their business to Best Buy in the US for £1.1bn!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7389291.stm

[t0mat0]

All this can only mean that the 3G iPhone is coming - but I don't think we can imply that O2 will not be a carrier - simply that they don't know or can't tell us about the 3G version yet.

This may, however, prompt Apple into announcing it earlier than planned, which would make sense considering that the cat is pretty much out of the bag now anyway...

The cost of discounting i'd imagine outweighs the cost of having too many returns from people suddenly finding their newly bought iPhone is not the most current version.

O2 will definitely be a carrier. The timing brings credence to a lot of what's previously been said (and the tussle over it being released in the fall is kinda put to rest now)

[ascender]

OK, so I'll be the first one to ask and get it out of the way :)

For existing users of the iPhone, when a new handset is released, can we just buy one from O2 or Apple, stick our SIM in and away we go? Albeit having to commit to a new contract term.

[yetanotherdave]

I walked past an O2 store yesterday, all iPhone banners were pretty much gone from the store, replaced with a sign about their simplicity tariff. O2 have gone on record as saying they're very pleased with iPhone sales and it's their best selling device yet. Also if they've run out of 16Gb phones which weren't discounted, then they seem to have done very well.
Think about it, a couple of weeks unavailability in the UK and US and wherever else apple can manage to run stocks dry, will spike interest like nothing we've seen before. No stock, frenzied buyers, surprise announcement, 3g available today, sales explode. 10m phones sold by end of 2008.

[cal6n]

OK, so I'll be the first one to ask and get it out of the way :)

For existing users of the iPhone, when a new handset is released, can we just buy one from O2 or Apple, stick our SIM in and away we go? Albeit having to commit to a new contract term.

Yes. That was the deal on the 8 GB > 16 GB update.

*snip*

Think about it, a couple of weeks unavailability in the UK and US and wherever else apple can manage to run stocks dry, will spike interest like nothing we've seen before. No stock, frenzied buyers, surprise announcement, 3g available today, sales explode. 10m phones sold by end of 2008.

Also, a couple of weeks gets past the 14 day "new-version exchange" period.

[aswitcher]

Yeah, Apple surely wont go a month without sales. 3G soon.

[MagicWok]

Is it just me, or has this not been fully thought through?

Leaving a over a months gap. Most people are going to think that it is no longer available at all, not just being replaced in June/July.

This is a bad idea.

I think it's a very good idea, and here's why:

There will still be a large % of people who buy the iPhone, that will not know the 3G version is on the horizon. At least this way, there is a definite cut off point for the old model, and time for demand and interest to inflate for the 3G version across all market sectors that do not keep up to date with Apple news as we do. And it gives us a clearer timeframe also, no BS, no uncertainty as to if to buy the iPhone now, or wait like we do with Mac hardware.

Another benefit is we won't get a mass of new member sign-ups complaining, like they do with Mac purchases, that they just bought an iPhone, only for the new model with added features at the same price point, to come out the next day or week.

It makes sense for 02 and Carphone Warehouse, who would be devoting retail space to a phone soon to phased-out with stock practically non-existent.

I think this is a good firm move on the part of Apple/O2, and at least we all have a month or so to save up and get the new iPhone :p

[Stig McNasty]

Maybe the UK is set to follow Italy, with iPhone being available on more than just the one carrier? Without knowing the minutae of the O2/Apple contract, maybe there's a get-out-clause? It would seem consistent with Apple's thinking with regard to new territories - where there's more than one operator why not increase your potential user?

[grimjim]

OK, so I'll be the first one to ask and get it out of the way :)

For existing users of the iPhone, when a new handset is released, can we just buy one from O2 or Apple, stick our SIM in and away we go? Albeit having to commit to a new contract term.

Would we need to commit to a new contract term? I mean, it's not like O2 are actually subsidising the iPhone, so why can't we just pay to upgrade our hardware and continue on the same contract as before?
I could understand why a phone company would demand a new contract if I were to buy a phone that they were subsidising, but in this case, they still get the (not inconsiderable) money for the phone, so why would they insist on a new contract?

[iMikeT]

I highly doubt that this is any indication of the long rumored (and highly speculated) 3G iPhone.

If anything, O2 has ran out of their stock of iPhones and decided not to continue to stock up on the iPhone until (a rumored) announcement at WWDC.

[Stig McNasty]

Would we need to commit to a new contract term? I mean, it's not like O2 are actually subsidising the iPhone, so why can't we just pay to upgrade our hardware and continue on the same contract as before?
I could understand why a phone company would demand a new contract if I were to buy a phone that they were subsidising, but in this case, they still get the (not inconsiderable) money for the phone, so why would they insist on a new contract?

Maybe 'because they can', and they're in the business of making money! Without any true competition, for the iPhone, O2 have the monopoly and can do what they want, and their contracts allow.

[yegon]

If this means a very imminent 32gb 3G iPhone, then whoopy doo! Anyone want to buy a 32gb Touch? :)

[ascender]

Maybe the UK is set to follow Italy, with iPhone being available on more than just the one carrier? Without knowing the minutae of the O2/Apple contract, maybe there's a get-out-clause? It would seem consistent with Apple's thinking with regard to new territories - where there's more than one operator why not increase your potential user?

I think even if it goes to multiple carriers, which is very likely, neither O2 or Apple would end their relationship as its beneficial to both. And I guess if there's more competition, that's good for consumers.

[Ironduke]

If the new 3G iPhone comes out sooner than later this means the Macbooks and Macbook Pros are coming at WWDC.

nah more like revamped mini

[G4DP]

Maybe the UK is set to follow Italy, with iPhone being available on more than just the one carrier? Without knowing the minutae of the O2/Apple contract, maybe there's a get-out-clause? It would seem consistent with Apple's thinking with regard to new territories - where there's more than one operator why not increase your potential user?

Seeing it on other networks would boost sales no end, I know at least 30 people who were interested in the iPhone but have Orange/Vodafone contracts.

But that would mean Apple giving UK consumers choice so don't hold your breath.

[Stig McNasty]

Seeing it on other networks would boost sales no end, I know at least 30 people who were interested in the iPhone but have Orange/Vodafone contracts.

But that would mean Apple giving UK consumers choice so don't hold your breath.

I wouldn't expect O2 or Apple to sever any relationship, but more carriers does mean more sales opportunities for Apple. With 2.5G & 3 G still nowhere near 100% for any one UK carrier, some mobile users have a choice of only one or two carriers. If O2 isn't one of those then Apple lose a sale and Apple lose their revenue share.

[sananda]

Think about it, a couple of weeks unavailability in the UK and US and wherever else apple can manage to run stocks dry, will spike interest like nothing we've seen before. No stock, frenzied buyers, surprise announcement, 3g available today, sales explode. 10m phones sold by end of 2008.

it's already nearly been a couple of weeks of unavailability of the 8GB in o2/cpw shops. i've been trying to buy one since 28 april and have been unable to source one at any o2 or cpw shop in london.

the price promotion was advertised to run until 1 june, so it seems that it was more popular than anticipated and they either can't and won't get in any more phones for the promotion period. so it looks like there will be at least 5 five weeks of o2 and cpw turning away customers willing to enter into 18 month contracts. unless their promotion was due to run until after the introduction of the new model.

[Abstract]

They should have just offered the phone for sale with a huge £75 or £100 discount just to clear the old stock. Some people don't care if they get a 2.5G phone, or 3G.


I can't imagine, that a CEO thinks this is a wise decision. Four weeks of absolutely NO iPhone sale will send the stock price down. I'm currently desperately waiting on news, or I should just sell my stock!


I don't think you put a lot of thought into anything you said. ;)

[Project]

They should have just offered the phone for sale with a huge £75 or £100 discount just to clear the old stock.

That's what they did.

[grimjim]

Maybe 'because they can', and they're in the business of making money! Without any true competition, for the iPhone, O2 have the monopoly and can do what they want, and their contracts allow.

Hmm. I suspect that the 'because they can' argument will go away as soon as someone figures out how to use their existing iPhone SIM in a new iPhone, and the 'being in the business of making money' argument will tend to be incompatible with pissing off their loyal customers, who were prepared to stump up the best part of three hundred quid to buy the first phone, and who will probably be prepared to spend the same or more to get the new one, but who won't be impressed at having to extend their contracts for the privilege of doing so.

[mtrctyjoe]

Apple has one of the BEST Global Supply Chain and Distribution networks in ANY industry. Therefore I feel the release of the new iPhone is imminent. They will use WWDC to highlight iPhone 2.0 and SDK Apps......

OR.... they totally &^%$#@# blew it.

[sananda]

Apple has one of the BEST Global Supply Chain and Distribution networks in ANY industry. Therefore I feel the release of the new iPhone is imminent. They will use WWDC to highlight iPhone 2.0 and SDK Apps......

OR.... they totally &^%$#@# blew it.

or o2 and cpw blew it because they do not have the best supply chain and distribution network.

[EvanLugh]

I strangely get the feeling this was planned. Plus, adverts cannot be updated this fast, it usually takes 48+ hours.
http://www.grabup.com/uploads/4efa00f5b664da3d62ad79ee02033183.png

[nick9191]

They should do it as £299 pay as you go, or £99 + 12 month contract at £35 p/m.

[gnasher729]

02 are probably no longer selling the iPhone on-line because the iPhone hasn't been the success they hoped it would be. Having had to reduce the cost of the 8GB unit to barely break even prices and noting that the 16GB unit still isn't shifting in significant numbers they're cutting their losses on the current version of the iPhone by closing inventory channels and running down retail stock.

Pretty standard business practice.

Sounds like a pretty bizarre practice to me. Even if they didn't sell many iPhones online, each one sold is money in the pocket.

What might be more possible: Apple makes a certain amount of money for every iPhone bought at an Apple store or online, and a certain smaller amount of money for every iPhone bought at O2. Apple knows they cannot handle the complete UK phone market, they need partners, that's why O2 is selling them even though it is less profit than Apple selling the phones. When O2 dumped the iPhones at bargain prices, that changed the balance. Obviously this reduced Apple's own sales and therefore reduced the total profit. The O2 partnership was based on a calculation what Apple's average profit would be, and that didn't take into account a partner dumping the phones. As a result, Apple might be a bit slow shipping more products to O2.

[juniorbadgerjon]

Ok here's a totally random suggestion.
What if O2 have decided not to offer the 3G version based on the smaller-than-expected sales despite their advertising efforts (mainly in store recently)? Maybe the subsidy costs would be high for them again?
What if Apple have decided that O2 didn't do enough to push the iPhone in the UK and gone to another carrier?
If either of these scenarios was true, maybe with a pending 3G release and a desire to not bother playing the game anymore, O2 have pulled the iPhone early as a dig at Apple going with another network?

It just feels VERY odd to leave the UK without any official supply of the iPhone from the very network you're relying on. Unless we see a new iPhone by close of play tomorrow, I'm suspicious of this move because it doesn't feel like its Apple-led.

If this 3G iPhone is going to be offered on multiple carriers then surely O2 would've wanted to continue the momentum that they are THE source for iPhone, and not just pull it.

iPhone on Orange please. Come on, only have to do a bit of work to get visual voicemail working.

Thoughts?

[grimjim]

I highly doubt that this is any indication of the long rumored (and highly speculated) 3G iPhone.

If anything, O2 has ran out of their stock of iPhones and decided not to continue to stock up on the iPhone until (a rumored) announcement at WWDC.

I suspect that you have hit the nail on the head, there. Their £100-off sale was to clear stocks of the original iPhone, and was very successful. With an announcement of the new iPhone imminent, they don't want to be left with lots of 'old' phones that nobody's interested in buying.

That said, if their iPhone sales are as good as they suggest, having no stock for a few weeks is going to mean a lot of lost sales. If their sales are that good.

[tallyho]

Apple has one of the BEST Global Supply Chain and Distribution networks in ANY industry.

<cough> iMac G4 -> G5 summer 2004</cough>

[REBELinBLUE]

If anything, O2 has ran out of their stock of iPhones and decided not to continue to stock up on the iPhone until (a rumored) announcement at WWDC.

Do you really think a large company like O2 would stop selling a product because of rumours? We aren't talking about a local computer shop who can't afford to have outdated stock, we are talking about a national company. There is no way they operate their product offering based on rumours, if a 3G iPhone is coming soon O2 know about it.

[Project]

What if Apple have decided that O2 didn't do enough to push the iPhone in the UK and gone to another carrier?

Doubt it. O2 have been fairly proactive in pushing the iPhone. I've never seen them push one single phone like they did with it.

[gnasher729]

Seeing it on other networks would boost sales no end, I know at least 30 people who were interested in the iPhone but have Orange/Vodafone contracts.

But that would mean Apple giving UK consumers choice so don't hold your breath.

I think the problem is that none of the carriers is interested that much in the iPhone if all the other carriers have it as well. What they are really, really, really interested in is a phone that they have exclusively and that makes people switch carriers. If you buy an iPhone from O2 instead of another phone, that's peanuts for them. But if you leave another carrier and join O2 to get an iPhone, now _that_ is real money.

It is probably difficult for Apple to get this right. Basically you know 30 people who learned from O2 about the iPhone and were reasonably close to buying it. If O2 and Orange/Vodafone would both be selling it, they would probably both try much less hard to sell it, so half of these 30 people might never have known it.

At O2, everyone will tell a customer: "You should buy the iPhone, it is the best, and you can get it only here. Don't buy that other phone that Orange is also selling, it is no good to you", because they know you can't go somewhere else and get it £10 cheaper. If everyone else sells it, that advantage will be gone.

[sananda]

I suspect that you have hit the nail on the head, there. Their £100-off sale was to clear stocks of the original iPhone, and was very successful. With an announcement of the new iPhone imminent, they don't want to be left with lots of 'old' phones that nobody's interested in buying.

That said, if their iPhone sales are as good as they suggest, having no stock for a few weeks is going to mean a lot of lost sales. If their sales are that good.

why don't they try controlling their stock better? all the phones i saw sold during the promotion appear to have been running 1.1.2 meaning they were pre- january 2008 stock. so it seems likely they bought a huge amount in november and no more since. unless there is some contrary stipulation in their agreement with apple, they could buy in stock now slowly and in low numbers to satisfy the demand of this promotion. they may lose money on the 8GBs but they would make money on the 18 month contracts.

perhaps though they are unable to get any more iphones.

[sunfast]

I think the problem is that none of the carriers is interested that much in the iPhone if all the other carriers have it as well. What they are really, really, really interested in is a phone that they have exclusively and that makes people switch carriers. If you buy an iPhone from O2 instead of another phone, that's peanuts for them. But if you leave another carrier and join O2 to get an iPhone, now _that_ is real money.

It is probably difficult for Apple to get this right. Basically you know 30 people who learned from O2 about the iPhone and were reasonably close to buying it. If O2 and Orange/Vodafone would both be selling it, they would probably both try much less hard to sell it, so half of these 30 people might never have known it.

At O2, everyone will tell a customer: "You should buy the iPhone, it is the best, and you can get it only here. Don't buy that other phone that Orange is also selling, it is no good to you", because they know you can't go somewhere else and get it £10 cheaper. If everyone else sells it, that advantage will be gone.

Interesting idea. However, if Vodafone had the iPhone I wouldn't be leaving them (after 10 years) for O2. If several other people leave their carriers for the iPhone then that's real money lost.

[grimjim]

Ok here's a totally random suggestion.
What if O2 have decided not to offer the 3G version based on the smaller-than-expected sales despite their advertising efforts (mainly in store recently)? Maybe the subsidy costs would be high for them again?
What if Apple have decided that O2 didn't do enough to push the iPhone in the UK and gone to another carrier?
If either of these scenarios was true, maybe with a pending 3G release and a desire to not bother playing the game anymore, O2 have pulled the iPhone early as a dig at Apple going with another network?

It just feels VERY odd to leave the UK without any official supply of the iPhone from the very network you're relying on. Unless we see a new iPhone by close of play tomorrow, I'm suspicious of this move because it doesn't feel like its Apple-led.

If this 3G iPhone is going to be offered on multiple carriers then surely O2 would've wanted to continue the momentum that they are THE source for iPhone, and not just pull it.

iPhone on Orange please. Come on, only have to do a bit of work to get visual voicemail working.

Thoughts?

I don't think that's necessarily a random suggestion. I would not be at all surprised to learn that O2's sales of the iPhone weren't the massive success that they hoped they would be. It could well be that the iPhone sold reasonably well, but not well enough to offset the costs of investing in Visual Voicemail upgrades and Edge downgrades, not to mention the money that Apple creams off each contract.
If that's the case, O2 could well be happy to offload whatever iPhone stocks they have, and to wait and see which way Apple jumps with the next generation phone. If Apple are insisting upon the same terms for selling the new iPhone, or even considering having multiple providers, O2 might be content to just wait and see how it pans out before they commit to pushing the new iPhone. I wouldn't be too surprised to learn that O2 are pushing Apple to allow them to sell the iPhone in the same way as any other mobile phone: by having a range of tariffs that determine the level of subsidy on the price of the phone itself. That's the business model that they're used to, and they probably want to be able to sell the iPhone that way, too. Apple wouldn't get a cut of the contract revenue, but they would be able to charge more for the handset. That would make the longer/more expensive contracts, with the higher rates of subsidy, more attractive, and O2 would make its money in the usual way.

You wanted thoughts. Them's mine. :)

[ascender]

Surely the bottom line which is there aren't any iPhones for sale via these store, is a bad situation to be in as some people will just buy something else? I don't see how it benefits anyone, especially given the recent sales boost the platform has had.

[mr1970]

For the phone to really take off, the 3G version must be available across multiple carriers, on both pay monthly, and pay as you go.

But I, like a lot of people, will not pay £250+ for a phone, AND £35+ a month for a contract I simply don't need.

Doug

Let's try this another way. For the Macbook to really take off, it needs to be made out of crappier materials, fall to bits after 3 years and cost £350. That way they'll be able to take on Acer.

No-one needs an iPhone. Many people, however, WANT an iPhone. I did, and I coughed up on the second day it was available in this country. I've owned many, many mobile phones in the last 12 years and the iPhone is a genuinely game-changing device. I loved my Nokia 8110 (the "banana phone" in the Matrix); I loved my Nokia 8210 as it was the first phone which comfortably fitted a jeans pocket. I loved my Motorola Razr for the form factor & style, but the iPhone is just a huge leap forward in terms of ease of use, staggering UI, mini-apps (stock prices, weather etc), iPod functionality and all the rest. The lack of 3G or a task list mean it's not perfect (in fact the lack of a task list for an ostensibly "smart" phone is utterly inexcusable) but it has moved the game on by a margin that no other phone I've ever seen has done.

For that level of performance, therefore, Apple are entirely right to charge what the market will accommodate.

I wanted a laptop - there were many cheaper options but I bought a 12" Powerbook because I wanted the best.
My partner wanted a "home" laptop - there were many cheaper options but she bought a Macbook
I wanted the best music player in the world - I bought an iPod (three times)
I wanted the best phone in the world...you get the point.

The funny thing is, I wouldn't even describe myself as a "fanboy" - when I was looking for a laptop I looked at Vaio, IBM, Toshiba, Dell XPS and all the rest, but the Apple blew them away. Similarly, I looked at Creative and other music players, and after the user experience with the Razr I swore I'd never use anything but Nokia ever again. But in every case, the Apple product was just plain better, and by a margin I was willing to pay for.

What's concerning me more about this story is that I signed an 18 month contract with O2, so if there's a new one coming out 6 months into that period they better let me upgrade (even if it's for a fee). Will be very, very disappointed if they don't.

[sananda]

Surely the bottom line which is there aren't any iPhones for sale via these store, is a bad situation to be in as some people will just buy something else? I don't see how it benefits anyone, especially given the recent sales boost the platform has had.

i think that's right. people who post here will wait for a new model, but those who do not follow apple news will just think one day they might like to buy an iphone, go into an o2 or cpw shop to attempt to buy one, get turned away, and then just buy something else which could easily be on another network (as they will most likely buy based on price comparison). those who found another network cheaper will be lost to o2 for another 12 or 18 months.

so, it seems strange to me that they are turning away contract business.

[yetanotherdave]

We all know ATT got a 5 year exclusivity deal, does anyone know if O2 has similar? It may help answer a lot of these questions...

[sananda]

We all know ATT got a 5 year exclusivity deal, does anyone know if O2 has similar? It may help answer a lot of these questions...

if i remember correctly at the launch matthew key (o2 ceo) said it was a multi-year agreement. which doesn't really tell us how many years or whether the exclusivity operates in every year of the agreement.

[Stig McNasty]

Interesting idea. However, if Vodafone had the iPhone I wouldn't be leaving them (after 10 years) for O2. If several other people leave their carriers for the iPhone then that's real money lost.

This is a very important factor. It costs phone companies a lot to gain new customers, so offering the latest greatest in order to retain existing customers is worth taking a hit on the handset.

[phelix_da_kat]

Well, I think the Apple store has a "better" control of its stock and less lag with its suppliers (while O2 has to probably request stock from Apple).

This way, Apple store can still "offer" the 8/16G iPhone to its customers and when the 3G iPhone comes out - they just "send" the customer the 3G version (as they do when you order computers and a "new" revision comes out even though you ordered the "previous" revision).

[BongoBanger]

I think people are missing two important points and jumping to wrong conclusions as a result:

1) O2 have quoted this as their fastest selling phone. This actually means nothing since they were the sole carrier and the iPhone had a known early adopter fanbase. Since the initial peak sales have been pretty poor which meant that they had to stimulate sales by improving the (awful) tarrifs.

2) The iPhone has not sold that well. There was a second peak of demand for 8GB models when O2 reduced the price of the model to a point where it just about broke even but overall it's not been heavily adopted in the UK - certainly not to the same extent as, say, the SE walkman series and the Nokia N series have. As has been pointed out the models sold after the cut had v1.1.2 firmware installed which indicates that they were models bought for a Christmas rush that never actually happened.

So this has nothing to do with supply chain or anything else. O2 merely ordered too much stock and now have to clear it before a revised model comes out, hence they will just run down what they have left in reserve and will not place new orders.

In other words, it looks like Voda UK and Orange were right to walk away from distributing the iPhone in the UK on the grounds that it wouldn't be profitable to do so under Apple's revenue sharing model. O2 have kind of learned this the hard way.

[AndyR]

Just popped in to my local O2 store and asked the sales guy if they have any iPhones in stock.

He went away and came back 5 mins later. No 8gb and only a couple 16Gb...

Tut tut...Apple this is poor, your going to loose sales.

[OllyW]

For that level of performance, therefore, Apple are entirely right to charge what the market will accommodate.

It was too expensive (in the UK) for "the market".

O2 had to improve the tarrifs and then drop the price by £100 to get sales moving.

[BongoBanger]

Sounds like a pretty bizarre practice to me. Even if they didn't sell many iPhones online, each one sold is money in the pocket.

Not if you're selling at a loss it isn't.

What might be more possible: Apple makes a certain amount of money for every iPhone bought at an Apple store or online, and a certain smaller amount of money for every iPhone bought at O2. Apple knows they cannot handle the complete UK phone market, they need partners, that's why O2 is selling them even though it is less profit than Apple selling the phones. When O2 dumped the iPhones at bargain prices, that changed the balance. Obviously this reduced Apple's own sales and therefore reduced the total profit. The O2 partnership was based on a calculation what Apple's average profit would be, and that didn't take into account a partner dumping the phones. As a result, Apple might be a bit slow shipping more products to O2.

Which might be true if O2 hadn't first had to better their tarrifs and CPW hadn't also dropped their prices.

This is excess inventory clearance, nothing more.

[cal6n]

We all know ATT got a 5 year exclusivity deal, does anyone know if O2 has similar? It may help answer a lot of these questions...

if i remember correctly at the launch matthew key (o2 ceo) said it was a multi-year agreement. which doesn't really tell us how many years or whether the exclusivity operates in every year of the agreement.

Does no-one remember the rumour at launch, to the effect that the agreements applied specifically to the EDGE enabled iPhones?

Once the 3G version is released, expect to see Apple UK selling unlocked iPhones at "full price" and O2 and Craphone Warehouse selling a subsidised, locked version. It's just how the mobile phone market works in Britain and no amount of Californian wishful-thinking, or Jobsian RDF, is going to change that.

[mrat93]

My guess is they discontinued the phone early so when the new iPhone comes out, everybody will be past their return date. How long is O2's return date. If it's 30 days, then it might make sense. Let's see if Apple stops selling them on the 26th.

[sananda]

Does no-one remember the rumour at launch, to the effect that the agreements applied specifically to the EDGE enabled iPhones?


i've never bought those rumours. o2 aren't complete fools. they knew there was a 3G iphone coming (jobs specifically said so when introducing iphone which was prior to the agreement with o2) and would be unlikely to have agreed to a multi-year agreement only for EDGE phones.

by the way the agreement with france telecom, is for three years and covers all iphone models.

[gnasher729]

Not if you're selling at a loss it isn't.

You are not thinking this through. If I have a dozen phones that I paid £100 for, and I find it hard to sell them, you say stopping to sell them is better than selling them for £80 each. I would set the prize to £120; every one I sell is cash in my pocket. If people don't buy them, it's no worse than stopping to sell.

[Cleverboy]

so, the question becomes... is Apple really going to stop selling the iPhone altogether in the UK for the next 4 weeks?

I suppose sales probably dwindled down anyway, but it's still surprising they let it get to 0.

arn Surprising, but considering its initially LOW UK sales figures and the generally lackluster pace of sales (until the recent price slashes/subsidies), its concievable that Apple would rather take over 1 month of "waiting customers" in exchange for a built-in CLAMOR of customers for the new 3G version... then sell 2G phones at a heavy discount, perpetuating an unflattering value perception until just prior to the new phone launch.

They might replenish, but I can't see how that trade off doesn't make sense. Sure, some folks might just buy other phones, but I think most people know what's coming... and that its worth the short wait.

~ CB

[Iggy]

Hmmmm. There weren't any in New York last week either. Two Apple stores were completely sold out.

[scharf10]

http://stuff.tv/News/O2-iPhones-out-of-stock/9989/

As soon as I saw this news I thought to head over to stuff.tv who have contacted 02.

The key paragraph being:

However, O2 tells us that in fact the 16GB iPhone was merely "temporarily out of stock in our online store this morning". They assure us that they are "replenishing stock of the 16GB iPhone and customers wishing to purchase through our online store will be able to shortly". In the meantime the 16GB iPhone is still available in their high street stores.

What this means as a bigger picture I'm not 100% sure, but interesting to read nonetheless.

Scharf

[kornyboy]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)

Is it just me, or has this not been fully thought through?

Leaving a over a months gap. Most people are going to think that it is no longer available at all, not just being replaced in June/July.

This is a bad idea.

I agree completely.

[LxTxNx]

Correct, expecting a 3G iPhone ANY moment now:D:D:D!


I'm sooooooo glad I sold mine yesterday for $400... I did include :apple: Care and a Case LOL


3G iPhone come to papa!!!

[Swinny]

The key bit from that Stuff article for me is "Quite who decided to put "iPhone no longer available" instead of "temporarily out of stock" on the website, we don't know"...

Whatever is going on (most likely dwindling stock before something new arrives in 4/5 weeks), that wording is utterly daft. To the average, non-techy, non-rumour-site-reading consumer out there that pretty much says "you can no longer buy an iPhone from O2"...and the consumer in turn says "oh, right, well off to Vodafone for a free N95 then".

If you go into a shop and ask if they have something in stock (in this situation), you'd expect to be told "we are currently out of stock, but hopefully within a few weeks will have more in" - and the potential customer walks away frustrated, but in many cases likely to hang on a few more weeks and return...if that same customer gets told "they aren't available any more", they just think thats that and go and look elsewhere for another device.

[krye]

I think the title should be "iPhone SOLD OUT in the UK". saying they are "no longer available" makes it sound like Apple pulled out. My heart almost skipped a beat!

[IscariotJ]

i've never bought those rumours. o2 aren't complete fools. they knew there was a 3G iphone coming (jobs specifically said so when introducing iphone which was prior to the agreement with o2) and would be unlikely to have agreed to a multi-year agreement only for EDGE phones.

by the way the agreement with france telecom, is for three years and covers all iphone models.

I hope that isn't the case with O2. I'm ready to replace two handsets, but there's no way that I'm going back to O2. Just give me it unlocked...

[dicklacara]

so, the question becomes... is Apple really going to stop selling the iPhone altogether in the UK for the next 4 weeks?

I suppose sales probably dwindled down anyway, but it's still surprising they let it get to 0.

arn

Mmmmm....

There's something(s) strange going on here:

1) Rumors of June/July 3G
2) Rumors of lots of new countries & multiple carriers per
3) Rumors of sale of Apple-approved unlocked iPhone sales
4) New features specific for China, Japan
5) Apple says they are on sched to sell 10 mil iPhones in 2008
6) Analysts estimate 14+ mil in 2008
7) YTD 2008 sales 2-3 mill doesn't compute

now, current carriers are fire-sale & EOLing current models.

Here's what I think:

1) Apple's carrier-exclusivity agreements outside US are different than US-ATT-- shorter time, per model, more flexible, etc.
2) Outside US, no delay for FCC approval
3) iPhone 3G not necessarily tied to 2.0

meaning...

iPhone 2.5/3G will be released outside US, first, say next week, with a simultaneous multi-country Blitz!

Later, say June 29, US release with FCC approval.

Later, when 2.0 is available, it is update to all


This does several things:

1) Tells the world that the iPhone is an ubiquitous world phone, not just a US phone with a few foreign outlets
2) Throws down the gauntlet to the competition-- "ours is better then yours, now & available everywhere that counts... and wait'll you see 2.0"
3) Puts Apple on track to [wildly] exceed 2008 iPhone sales goals
4) Pisses off US customers like me-- but we understand the reasoning, FFC delay, and the overall benefit
:D

[BongoBanger]

You are not thinking this through. If I have a dozen phones that I paid £100 for, and I find it hard to sell them, you say stopping to sell them is better than selling them for £80 each. I would set the prize to £120; every one I sell is cash in my pocket. If people don't buy them, it's no worse than stopping to sell.

Well, no because you assume that people will pay £120 for them when you might actually have to reduce the price to £100 - or even £80 - to stimulate demand. You've not stopped selling them - if you have to lose £20 on each unit that's still better than losing £100 - you're just not going to compound your losses by ordering more stock.

[mr1970]

It was too expensive (in the UK) for "the market".

O2 had to improve the tarrifs and then drop the price by £100 to get sales moving.

Can't argue with that. The market did accommodate it but not in the volumes they wanted. Maybe it was just too much of a stretch to hope that a market which has been used to getting the latest & greatest phone for free (can't remember the last time I paid for one - can you?) would cough almost 300 quid.

The multi-network issue is interesting too. I was very happy with Orange for many years - so much so that when I left for the iPhone they offered me a Nokia N95 AND an iPod free if I stayed! - so I'd rather not have gone to O2, but the phone was just too good. Can't imagine why anyone would go to O2 if it wasn't for the iPhone.

[CWallace]

I imagine the EU has their own version of the FCC, so either they don't make their info public as the FCC does, or the 3G iPhone is not going to be released in the EU within the next few days or weeks.

As to O2, if they really expected to get 3G iPhones within days or weeks, then the UK would have to be the exclusive launch country for the product since we don't see Italian and German retail carriers running out of stock, to say nothing of AT&T here in the US.

Also, Apple UK is still selling iPhones, so why would they be pushing them - and at full boat retail, no less - when they are going to launch a 3G iPhone within days or weeks?

Nope, this looks to me like O2 underestimated the response to both selling the 8GB iPhone at the new price as well as how many people wanted a 16GB iPhone even at full price. It is also possible that the 16GB unit didn't sell, period, and as O2 stores sold out of 8GB models, they started offering 16GB units either as an alternate for the same price or with it's own discount to move that stock until it cleared.

[deputy_doofy]

I can't imagine, that a CEO thinks this is a wise decision. Four weeks of absolutely NO iPhone sale will send the stock price down. I'm currently desperately waiting on news, or I should just sell my stock!

Cool. I'll buy a 1000 shares from you @ $50/share. C'mon. That's an easy $50,000 for you almost immediately... :p

[network23]

Could be a marketing ploy. Look at how the media drooled over the iPhone at release. Now, all of a sudden, it's no longer available?!?!? I predict there will be a media frenzy and Apple gets tons of free publicity.

[dicklacara]

I think the problem is that none of the carriers is interested that much in the iPhone if all the other carriers have it as well. What they are really, really, really interested in is a phone that they have exclusively and that makes people switch carriers. If you buy an iPhone from O2 instead of another phone, that's peanuts for them. But if you leave another carrier and join O2 to get an iPhone, now _that_ is real money.

It is probably difficult for Apple to get this right. Basically you know 30 people who learned from O2 about the iPhone and were reasonably close to buying it. If O2 and Orange/Vodafone would both be selling it, they would probably both try much less hard to sell it, so half of these 30 people might never have known it.

At O2, everyone will tell a customer: "You should buy the iPhone, it is the best, and you can get it only here. Don't buy that other phone that Orange is also selling, it is no good to you", because they know you can't go somewhere else and get it £10 cheaper. If everyone else sells it, that advantage will be gone.

Except, what if a carrier can prevent loss of a contract because it now carries the iPhone?

What's that worth?

[JGowan]

I can't imagine, that a CEO thinks this is a wise decision. Four weeks of absolutely NO iPhone sale will send the stock price down. I'm currently desperately waiting on news, or I should just sell my stock!In this situation, better to let stock and sales go because the first two weeks (of this 4 weeks of possible selling your talking about), you create very disgruntled customers who "blew it" and bought outdated stuff because they're outside the 14-day return window. The last two weeks, you create all 14-day return customers who are going to either demand a discount, refund or return for the new one which creates only more hassles because you'd be dealing with two types of frantic customers: those who wanting to have their "wrongs righted" and those who just want their new 3G iPhone. People are hearing the 3G rumors. To think that any potential 3G iPhone buyer is not going to wait it out and go somewhere else is just impossible. They'll wait and be back to stand in the proverbial line around the block.

SIDE TOPIC: What is going to happen to the iPod Touch in June? We've seen the Touch piggyback off the wave of iPhone Success and the benefits that hit the iPhone manage to get to the Touch too... obviously it'll get the Apps store and some other 2.0 features... but what about enclosure changes? If the iPhone 2 is getting cosmetic surgery, would the Touch inherit the old look...? Get a new look altogether? What's your take, people?

[Santa Rosa]

Let's try this another way. For the Macbook to really take off, it needs to be made out of crappier materials, fall to bits after 3 years and cost £350. That way they'll be able to take on Acer.

No-one needs an iPhone. Many people, however, WANT an iPhone. I did, and I coughed up on the second day it was available in this country. I've owned many, many mobile phones in the last 12 years and the iPhone is a genuinely game-changing device. I loved my Nokia 8110 (the "banana phone" in the Matrix); I loved my Nokia 8210 as it was the first phone which comfortably fitted a jeans pocket. I loved my Motorola Razr for the form factor & style, but the iPhone is just a huge leap forward in terms of ease of use, staggering UI, mini-apps (stock prices, weather etc), iPod functionality and all the rest. The lack of 3G or a task list mean it's not perfect (in fact the lack of a task list for an ostensibly "smart" phone is utterly inexcusable) but it has moved the game on by a margin that no other phone I've ever seen has done.

For that level of performance, therefore, Apple are entirely right to charge what the market will accommodate.

I wanted a laptop - there were many cheaper options but I bought a 12" Powerbook because I wanted the best.
My partner wanted a "home" laptop - there were many cheaper options but she bought a Macbook
I wanted the best music player in the world - I bought an iPod (three times)
I wanted the best phone in the world...you get the point.

The funny thing is, I wouldn't even describe myself as a "fanboy" - when I was looking for a laptop I looked at Vaio, IBM, Toshiba, Dell XPS and all the rest, but the Apple blew them away. Similarly, I looked at Creative and other music players, and after the user experience with the Razr I swore I'd never use anything but Nokia ever again. But in every case, the Apple product was just plain better, and by a margin I was willing to pay for.

What's concerning me more about this story is that I signed an 18 month contract with O2, so if there's a new one coming out 6 months into that period they better let me upgrade (even if it's for a fee). Will be very, very disappointed if they don't.

At last someone that understands you don't get something for nothing in this life. Right on man. Am entirely with you and Im gonna go and get the 3G iPhone when it comes out, no matter what it costs, thats the price of it and thats it.

The number of times I have read on this forum people complaining because its too expensive is ridiculous. If you cant afford it you aint getting it. End of story.

Thank you mr1970 for your refreshing post.

[bumfilter]

Whatever happens, I hope I can buy the next version sans contract. I don't mind paying £300 for it, just as long as I can hack it and take it elsewhere.

[djellison]

Im gonna go and get the 3G iPhone when it comes out, no matter what it costs

What if it's £300? £500? £1000? At what point would you say 'Sorry - that's too much'? There must be one - unless you actually have infinite money.

Doug

[bigmc6000]

This is a little off the point but can anyone provide a link for average, say, engineering salaries in the UK and/or the EU as a whole? I'm just wondering if the salaries are roughly 1 to 1 vs the US how awesome of a deal it is for you guys across the pond to get an iPhone for under 200...

[neupane00]

this **** is getting crazy. hehe.. im so excited. But again, i dont like this move at all. even if iphone comes out on june's event and start shipping end of june that 2 months gap without selling iphone. Why would 02 do that?
I think one of two:
1) iphone coming sooner than expected. And ONLY have 3g. And no other frills and thrills. So i can imagine, they can quietly update the iphone without any special events.
2) Just bad marketing from 02. maybe their inventory was going down so they just decided to take a break till new product

I am new APPLE follower. But u experts might know.. Does apple have history of releasing or announcing HARDWARE on event like WWDC? isnt that just software conf?

[sishaw]

I don't think it would be a good idea to sell your Apple stock just because there _might_ be a downturn temporarily. I think we all know that Apple is going a lot higher than $183. If you believe in the company and that it is a sound investment, stick with them.

My 2¢.

No, no! Start a panicky selloff and drive the price down, so people like me, who didn't actually have the foresight to invest in Apple when it was low, can buy in!!! Pulllll-eaze!!!!

[Santa Rosa]

unless you actually have infinite money.

Nailed it.

[knightlie]

At last someone that understands you don't get something for nothing in this life. Right on man. Am entirely with you and Im gonna go and get the 3G iPhone when it comes out, no matter what it costs, thats the price of it and thats it.

The number of times I have read on this forum people complaining because its too expensive is ridiculous. If you cant afford it you aint getting it. End of story.

Thank you mr1970 for your refreshing post.

It's not just a question of "can't afford it," I can plenty afford it, but I consider it too expensive, particularly with the contract. As good as the iPhone is, I can get a £50 Nokia from eBay that's equally as useful to me and a good deal cheaper to run on pay-as-you-go.

Don't pretend to know how other people think.

[sadsack]

What if it's £300? £500? £1000? At what point would you say 'Sorry - that's too much'? There must be one - unless you actually have infinite money.

Doug

I think £400 would be a limit, but i would go to £500. It depends how much people want something. However, right now i cant see it being that expensive, as all i can see it having is 3G. If the rest of the form factor is the same and o2 are not selling the present model due to stock restrictions, maybe they do not want to compete in the same price bracket. I think it will be about £350.

Regards the american question on our income, i think this does not make any difference. What you guys need to understand is that, unless it is a major business phone - we do not tend to pay major money phones as they are rebated via the network. Here in the UK and the EU, we are used to some major free texts and good deals, especially if we are meant to sign up to 19 months.

Can you guys really see any network giving free data plan, especially if you can use your phone as a 3g modem?

[gpfradgley]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)

did anyone see Vodafones original press release when the iPhone came out? They said it did not fit in with their business model mainly because it was 2.5g now they have signed upto sell it in at least 10 countries!!! Its totally coming very soon and its 3G

[dicklacara]

I imagine the EU has their own version of the FCC, so either they don't make their info public as the FCC does, or the 3G iPhone is not going to be released in the EU within the next few days or weeks.


A UK version of FCC delay may or may not be true. However, if the 3G is available elsewhere, say Belgium or France, O2 can take proactive steps to protect loss of contracts by offering incentives for when they have the 3g available to sell-- stick with me for another month and get your new 3G (from me) with whatever?


As to O2, if they really expected to get 3G iPhones within days or weeks, then the UK would have to be the exclusive launch country for the product since we don't see Italian and German retail carriers running out of stock, to say nothing of AT&T here in the US.


Don't understand why UK would need to be exclusive launch country-- see above.



Also, Apple UK is still selling iPhones, so why would they be pushing them - and at full boat retail, no less - when they are going to launch a 3G iPhone within days or weeks?


I have been an Apple reseller & this is normal practice:

1) Alert reseller (O2, et al) management to new product 2-4 weeks out to allow current inventory to be cleared as necessary, & minimize reseller price-protection credits & returns to Apple
3) Apple keep selling at current retail until announcement to facilitate (not compete with) resellers' inventory clearance
4) Apple controls its sales (& return eligibility) of existing product by extending delivery... days, then weeks
5) Announce New Product at old Price & Existing Product at new lower price, as available
6) Offer unshipped orders-- new product at same price or old product at lower price.
7) Provide some price-protection credits to resellers
8) 10-day return/refund/upgrade for end-users
9) Returns offered as "refurbished" (discounted) at Apple Store
10) Anything else, handled by Apple on a case by case basis-- Apple (or reseller) store manager may waive 10-day return if warranted.

This way, Apple retains control, minimizes returns, losses/costs, maximizes customer & reseller satisfaction-- everybody wins!

[benpatient]

I just wanted to say that I'm very annoyed with MR's trending towards the iphone. Guess what...an iPhone is not a Mac.

I don't think it is front-page news when a single supplier is out of stock on iphones in a country where almost nobody uses the iphone. And it's not a mac.

6 out of 9 stories currently on the front page of MR are about the iPhone, and one of the other three (semiconductor company) actually might be, too.

Pretty poor.

[macattackamac]

i am just waiting for 30 days to get an iphone v.2 with 3g, bluetooth, wi-fi and 16g+ of memory ;)

[Consultant]

US Apple Store now quoting 5-7 business day shipping time on BOTH 8gb and 16gb...Is this new?

Not normal, but frequently that way for the last few months.

[megfilmworks]

I can't imagine, that a CEO thinks this is a wise decision. Four weeks of absolutely NO iPhone sale will send the stock price down. I'm currently desperately waiting on news, or I should just sell my stock!I think you should reconsider. This is not bad news.
The news that Apple just set a deal for South America is a far more important driver.

Stock is up this morning by $2.01 and rising.
If you had bought 1,000 shares the first week of March ($119) You'd have a profit of aprox. $65 a share for a 2 month profit of $65,000.
Only V has been able to show those kinds of numbers in a slow and stale equities market.

[Santa Rosa]

I just wanted to say that I'm very annoyed with MR's trending towards the iphone. Guess what...an iPhone is not a Mac.

I don't think it is front-page news when a single supplier is out of stock on iphones in a country where almost nobody uses the iphone. And it's not a mac.

6 out of 9 stories currently on the front page of MR are about the iPhone, and one of the other three (semiconductor company) actually might be, too.

Pretty poor.

I think Arn and the crew do a great job reporting everything thats happening. iPhone as I think I have gathered is an Apple product. That firmly puts it in Mac Rumors news, its hardly like if there are any rumors and news related to the Mac that its brushed aside and not reported on.

iPhone is very prominent at the moment. Either accept that or just (dont read Mac Rumors - I in no way endorse that though, to me that would be terrible)

i am just waiting for 30 days to get an iphone v.2 with 3g, bluetooth, wi-fi and 16g+ of memory ;)

So just 3G then lol :rolleyes: ;) :D

[Stig McNasty]

Well, no because you assume that people will pay £120 for them when you might actually have to reduce the price to £100 - or even £80 - to stimulate demand. You've not stopped selling them - if you have to lose £20 on each unit that's still better than losing £100 - you're just not going to compound your losses by ordering more stock.

...and we don't know O2s margins, stepped deals with Apple, or any other 'riders'. If the original price was not cut-to-the-bone then there was room to discount and still make a profit.

[MrMickS]

It's not just a question of "can't afford it," I can plenty afford it, but I consider it too expensive, particularly with the contract. As good as the iPhone is, I can get a £50 Nokia from eBay that's equally as useful to me and a good deal cheaper to run on pay-as-you-go.

Don't pretend to know how other people think.

If a £50 Nokia from eBay is equally useful to you then you aren't the target market for the iPhone.

[djellison]

I think Arn and the crew do a great job reporting everything thats happening. iPhone as I think I have gathered is an Apple product. That firmly puts it in Mac Rumors news,

I disagree - and your post explains why. This is MAC rumors. Not Apple rumors. But realistically, Apple themselves seem to have forgone any reasonable development to the computer products for the iPhone - and in the long term, I think that will be to their detriment. One need only look at the delay to 10.5 because of a damn cell phone - a cell phone which still lags behind its rivals massively in many areas.

Doug

[bigmc6000]

I think Arn and the crew do a great job reporting everything thats happening. iPhone as I think I have gathered is an Apple product. That firmly puts it in Mac Rumors news, its hardly like if there are any rumors and news related to the Mac that its brushed aside and not reported on.

iPhone is very prominent at the moment. Either accept that or just (dont read Mac Rumors - I in no way endorse that though, to me that would be terrible)


I think what he was suggesting is that Arn try to buy the rights to "AppleRumors.com" and then all will be fine ;)

AI, MR and all the others focus on what Apple focuses on and right now that's the iPhone. And, if you think about it, the release of 2.0 is going to help the Mac A LOT. Not necessarily because of the "halo effect" but because it's going to bring programmers to the OS X platform and that is great news for us! :)

[nomad01]

I disagree - and your post explains why. This is MAC rumors. Not Apple rumors. But realistically, Apple themselves seem to have forgone any reasonable development to the computer products for the iPhone - and in the long term, I think that will be to their detriment.

Doug

From this website's About page...

About MacRumors.com

MacRumors.com is a website focused on Apple news and rumors.

As the most popular site of its kind, MacRumors attracts a broad audience of both consumers and professionals interested in the latest technologies and products. The site also boasts an active community focused on purchasing decisions and technical aspects of the iPhone, iPod and Macintosh platforms.

Many of us on here are equally interested in iPhone, iPod as we are about our Macs.

[BongoBanger]

At last someone that understands you don't get something for nothing in this life. Right on man. Am entirely with you and Im gonna go and get the 3G iPhone when it comes out, no matter what it costs, thats the price of it and thats it.

The number of times I have read on this forum people complaining because its too expensive is ridiculous. If you cant afford it you aint getting it. End of story.

Thank you mr1970 for your refreshing post.

That's just silly though. If the iPhone 2.0 doesn't compete with its peers then I'm not going to buy it whether it's £0.50 or £500. Similarly, if it blows them out the water then I'm quite happy to lash out an extra few hundred quid on it.

[BongoBanger]

...and we don't know O2s margins, stepped deals with Apple, or any other 'riders'. If the original price was not cut-to-the-bone then there was room to discount and still make a profit.

Well yes, just not as much as if they were selling it for £100 more obviously.

[nomad01]

http://shop.o2.co.uk/iPhone

Looks like somebody got a telling off.

Now taking orders for the 16GB model too.

[eddietr]

I disagree - and your post explains why. This is MAC rumors. Not Apple rumors. But realistically, Apple themselves seem to have forgone any reasonable development to the computer products for the iPhone - and in the long term, I think that will be to their detriment. One need only look at the delay to 10.5 because of a damn cell phone - a cell phone which still lags behind its rivals massively in many areas.

Doug

The reality is if Apple focused on the Mac as much as some people want, there would probably be no Apple by now. We've seen what happened in the past when the Mac was all they had. It wasn't pretty.

Somehow with their attention split 3 ways, you'll notice that Mac sales are the best they have ever been. So I guess I'm not seeing the "detriment" yet.

[sishaw]

I think Arn and the crew do a great job reporting everything thats happening. iPhone as I think I have gathered is an Apple product. That firmly puts it in Mac Rumors news, its hardly like if there are any rumors and news related to the Mac that its brushed aside and not reported on.

iPhone is very prominent at the moment. Either accept that or just (dont read Mac Rumors - I in no way endorse that though, to me that would be terrible)



Well said, and ditto. Also, things change--technology especially. Portability, small devices, convergence of functions in the cell phone--this is what's happening now. Whining about the way Apple and Macrumors used to be simply blinds one to the exciting things going on now.

[bigmc6000]

Why is it that there seems to be more complaining about price from those across the pond than here in the US?

Right now the undiscounted 16GB from O2 is 329, in the US it's 499. So in order for the iPhone to actually cost more to the consumer in the UK you'd have to be making 0.66 GBP for each 1 USD your American counterpart makes. And, last time I checked that's not even close to true...

And don't use that exchange rate excuse - your salary doesn't change based on the exchange rate (barring the people who work remotely for US companies, live abroad and get paid in USD.) If the part in parentheses applies to you I'm sorry, that really sucks :(

[dozydozer]

Hi guys...had to join, cos I saw the post this morning...panicked and rung o2 to make sure I didn't lose any services, but the guy I spoke to was completely unware of any changes. So I directed him to the iphone page at o2, when he saw it, off he went to find someone who might know whats going on....then I lost the call !!!!
Now I've just been back to the O2 website and THAT page has changed, and it now says that the 8GB model is available but the 16GB model is sold out.

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON ?????

[corrado7]

We all know ATT got a 5 year exclusivity deal, does anyone know if O2 has similar? It may help answer a lot of these questions...

can you please provide a direct quote from either ATT or Apple please? i bet you cant. This was said by a news reporter

[Project]

I disagree - and your post explains why. This is MAC rumors. Not Apple rumors. But realistically, Apple themselves seem to have forgone any reasonable development to the computer products for the iPhone - and in the long term, I think that will be to their detriment. One need only look at the delay to 10.5 because of a damn cell phone - a cell phone which still lags behind its rivals massively in many areas.

Doug

Ludicrous post of the day award goes to...



If there are any Mac rumours, then Arn will post them. I don't see what the big deal is.

Quite frankly the personal computer industry is BORING. Little innovation in the UI and the machines themselves. Do you really want rumours solely about speed bumps? Because that's generally all that happens these days.

[BongoBanger]

Why is it that there seems to be more complaining about price from those across the pond than here in the US?

Right now the undiscounted 16GB from O2 is 329, in the US it's 499. So in order for the iPhone to actually cost more to the consumer in the UK you'd have to be making 0.66 GBP for each 1 USD your American counterpart makes. And, last time I checked that's not even close to true...

And don't use that exchange rate excuse - your salary doesn't change based on the exchange rate (barring the people who work remotely for US companies, live abroad and get paid in USD.) If the part in parentheses applies to you I'm sorry, that really sucks :(

I read this post and felt that I'd just run headfirst into a wall of ignorance.

[Phil A.]

Why is it that there seems to be more complaining about price from those across the pond than here in the US?

Right now the undiscounted 16GB from O2 is 329, in the US it's 499. So in order for the iPhone to actually cost more to the consumer in the UK you'd have to be making 0.66 GBP for each 1 USD your American counterpart makes. And, last time I checked that's not even close to true...

And don't use that exchange rate excuse - your salary doesn't change based on the exchange rate (barring the people who work remotely for US companies, live abroad and get paid in USD.) If the part in parentheses applies to you I'm sorry, that really sucks :(

Taking the VAT (Tax) off the UK price, it's £280 (about $560 at current exchange rates), so it does cost more over here (but not as much as some people think)
The main reason people complain over here in the UK is because we don't have a culture of paying for our phones - you can get just about any phone in the UK except the iPhone for free or nearly free if you take an 18 month contract out.

[chickenninja]

For the phone to really take off, the 3G version must be available across multiple carriers, on both pay monthly, and pay as you go.

But I, like a lot of people, will not pay £250+ for a phone, AND £35+ a month for a contract I simply don't need.

Doug

yeah, iphone needs to be universally available to all carriers. especially considering the younger demographic that convinces their parents to buy them an iphone, but the pay may be reluctant to switch carriers.

[bigmc6000]

Taking the VAT (Tax) off the UK price, it's £280 (about $560 at current exchange rates), so it does cost more over here (but not as much as some people think)
The main reason people complain over here in the UK is because we don't have a culture of paying for our phones - you can get just about any phone in the UK except the iPhone for free or nearly free if you take an 18 month contract out.

Did you miss the part about not talking about the exchange rate? Again, I say, you don't get paid based on the exchange rate. If you (not you but the message above yours) thinks it's stupid that's because you can't just answer the question. What is the average pay in your local currency vs the average pay of an American in USD for whatever your profession is. Exchange rate DOESN'T matter because, again, you don't get paid based on the exchange rate. My pay hasn't gone down because the dollar is *****ty as I'm sure your pay in GBP or Euros hasn't gone up because the USD is *****ty.

Most of the phones over here aren't paid for either. I'd say a solid 70% of the consumer owned phones in the US were less than $50 when signed up with a contract. Now, I respect the cultural issue of not wanting to pay for a phone but unless you pay varies with the exchange rate leave it out of this.

I read this post and felt that I'd just run headfirst into a wall of ignorance.

I'm sorry you hit yourself on the head, you should really try to stop doing that...

So, I guess your pay has gone down then? Hmm, that sucks. I'm not talking about Apple's margins, I'm talking about the cost TO YOU. If I make 50,000 units of money and the phone costs 500 units that costs me more than if you make 50,000 units of money and the phone costs you 400. It's really a very, very simple concept... Or maybe you think you're too smart to think about simple things...

[BongoBanger]

I'm sorry you hit yourself on the head, you should really try to stop doing that...

So, I guess your pay has gone down then? Hmm, that sucks. I'm not talking about Apple's margins, I'm talking about the cost TO YOU. If I make 50,000 units of money and the phone costs 500 units that costs me more than if you make 50,000 units of money and the phone costs you 400. It's really a very, very simple concept... Or maybe you think you're too smart to think about simple things...

The wall of ignorance has nothing to do with the exchange rate which is indeed a bogus excuse. It's the rest of your post that's the kicker mainly because you completely ignore the differences between the US and European phone markets.

[supamario]

O2 is not out of iPhones, it is still available through their website.

[Phil A.]

Did you miss the part about not talking about the exchange rate? Again, I say, you don't get paid based on the exchange rate. If you (not you but the message above yours) thinks it's stupid that's because you can't just answer the question. What is the average pay in your local currency vs the average pay of an American in USD for whatever your profession is. Exchange rate DOESN'T matter because, again, you don't get paid based on the exchange rate. My pay hasn't gone down because the dollar is *****ty as I'm sure your pay in GBP or Euros hasn't gone up because the USD is *****ty.

Most of the phones over here aren't paid for either. I'd say a solid 70% of the consumer owned phones in the US were less than $50 when signed up with a contract. Now, I respect the cultural issue of not wanting to pay for a phone but unless you pay varies with the exchange rate leave it out of this.

The UK National Average Salary before taxes is £21,900 which makes the iPhone (excluding VAT) around 15% of one month's gross salary

I couldn't find a total average salary for the USA, but this site (http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Country=United_States/Salary) does allow some comparisons:
The UK Average salary for a developer is £28,012
The US average salary for a developer is $64,597

Percentage of one months salary for a UK iPhone: 12%
Percentage of one months salary for a US iPhone: 9%

so, it is more expensive in the UK based on those figures. Of course, this isn't entirely accurate because that's ignoring taxation and the general cost of living differences.

As an aside, my income does actually vary with exchange rate changes as I have quite a few American customers...

[KindredMAC]

...But has anyone mentioned yet, why are the iPhones being depleted?

I thought the plan was to offer the current EDGE iPhone at a much lower price point and introduce the 3G iPhone at the current structure?????

Are we going to see the end of the EDGE iPhone as we know it? Possibly getting a face lift to look just like the new 3G iPhone????

Things that make you go "Hmmmmmm".....

[gnasher729]

Well, no because you assume that people will pay £120 for them when you might actually have to reduce the price to £100 - or even £80 - to stimulate demand. You've not stopped selling them - if you have to lose £20 on each unit that's still better than losing £100 - you're just not going to compound your losses by ordering more stock.

You are really not getting it. You have a dozen phones that you bought for £100. If you stop selling, you will always have a dozen phones that you bought for £100. If you offer them for £120, you will be selling them - maybe slowly, but better than not selling them at all. Worst case, nobody buys them. This is not worse than stopping to sell.

[bigmc6000]

The UK National Average Salary before taxes is £21,900 which makes the iPhone (excluding VAT) around 15% of one month's gross salary

I couldn't find a total average salary for the USA, but this site (http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Country=United_States/Salary) does allow some comparisons:
The UK Average salary for a developer is £28,012
The US average salary for a developer is $64,597

Percentage of one months salary for a UK iPhone: 12%
Percentage of one months salary for a US iPhone: 9%

so, it is more expensive in the UK based on those figures. Of course, this isn't entirely accurate because that's ignoring taxation and the general cost of living differences.

As an aside, my income does actually vary with exchange rate changes as I have quite a few American customers...

Thank you - finally someone pointing out the info I'm talking about. % of someone's monthly salary is the actual cost to the consumer - it's not based on exchange rate. So yes, it is more expensive because of the average pay, not because of the exchange rate and yes, I'll agree that sucks.

I was certain there are a number of people who's business is international and I understand the impact of the exchange rate on their salary but for those of us who "work for the man" we're rather far removed from the actual selling of the products.

So - thanks for the info, I guess I wasn't putting the right thing into Google to get it and I'm glad you realized my point about how exchange rate (aside of those who directly do international business) doesn't affect the end consumer cost of an item (even tho it does inflate Apple's margins quite a bit)

[iPhelim]

Sorry if this has been said, but the 16GB model is still for sale on the O2 website.

http://shop.o2.co.uk/promo/iphonetariffs

[cal6n]

The wall of ignorance has nothing to do with the exchange rate which is indeed a bogus excuse. It's the rest of your post that's the kicker mainly because you completely ignore the differences between the US and European phone markets.

Don't bother mate! :)

There's a few of us Brits have been trying to explain the situation to our transatlantic chums since the iPhone was first announced. I genuinely don't mean to insult anyone but, with the best will in the world, they just don't get it. Many of the American posters on this forum (and many others) don't get it. Apple's management team certainly don't get it and they're really switched-on in other respects. It's like they understand all of the actual words we use, but they don't understand how it translates into consumer behaviour on the high street. It must be some sort of cross-cultural blind-spot.

[Stig McNasty]

Does that mean we're all friends again :)

[pipanderson]

Anyway, to return to the original topic, which I've been reading with interest...

Firstly, I think the title is utterly misleading, as the iPhone is still available in the UK! As of yesterday, I know of an O2 and C/W store that have 16GB versions available AND you can get them via Apple on-line, shipped within 24hrs.

Also, am I the only person who actually thinks the (full) price isn't bad at all?! I have just ordered myself an iPhone (at full price) as I have been waiting until I know for sure I could unlock it safely (perhaps a little late I know!). I think the problem with the price is if you sign up to the contract, as you don't get any discount for that. Therefore, you're paying the same price as someone who unlocks it (which the UK is not use to).

As I travel with my work and currently have 4 PAYG SIM cards, including the Middle East where the iPhone is non-existent, unless you're prepared to pay well over the odds - this is a great deal! 269 quid for what the iPhone is? Unlocked? I remember paying 150 quid for a flipping Motorola phone less than 2 years ago, which is only a....phone! And the cheapest I've seen the Nokia N95 (unlocked) is 280 quid and personally, I wouldn't even put these 2 devices in the same bracket! I've just replaced my enormous diary, calculator, phone, notebook and old iPod (with the addition of email and internet) for 269 quid. Bargain!

The other important factor is that as I use PAYG in various countries and pay my own bills, the last feature I need is EDGE - let alone 3G! So for people who travel, it's perfect!

On another note, I think Apple have been very clever and actually helpful towards themselves and O2 in the way the contract is set-up. Imagine how many iPhones O2 would have sold if you had to sign the contract "in-store", as you do to get your "free" other phone? I'm sure Jobs knew that by keeping control via iTunes, a lot more phones have been sold as they can be unlocked, so no contract required.

Anyway, I've been reading MR for a while and have always enjoyed the posts - just thought it was about time I contributed! And as far as I'm concerned, it's here to deal with "anything" Apple!!!

[bigmc6000]

The UK National Average Salary before taxes is £21,900 which makes the iPhone (excluding VAT) around 15% of one month's gross salary


I'm not sure if you were quoting average household or individual income but Wiki has the verbiage for the US.

"annual household income was $48,201.00 according to the US Census Bureau.[3] The median income per household member (including all working and non-working members above the age of 14) was $26,036 in 2006."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

Of course that's talking about median - not mean...

[Santa Rosa]

Looks like the article needs a quick update then. iPhone now available again 16GB from O2.

It would be interesting to find out what is actually happening...

[dicklacara]

The wall of ignorance has nothing to do with the exchange rate which is indeed a bogus excuse. It's the rest of your post that's the kicker mainly because you completely ignore the differences between the US and European phone markets.

I am gonna' regret this, but...

Guys! It doesn't have anything to do with exchange rates or even salaries. It is perceived value to you at a price.

If you find a match, you buy!

if, you don't, you look for a better price!!

Lacking a price that matches your perceived value, you don't buy!

Simple! What does it matter what my (or anyone else's) perceived value/price is... yours is the only one that counts!

[bigmc6000]

Don't bother mate! :)

There's a few of us Brits have been trying to explain the situation to our transatlantic chums since the iPhone was first announced. I genuinely don't mean to insult anyone but, with the best will in the world, they just don't get it. Many of the American posters on this forum (and many others) don't get it. Apple's management team certainly don't get it and they're really switched-on in other respects. It's like they understand all of the actual words we use, but they don't understand how it translates into consumer behaviour on the high street. It must be some sort of cross-cultural blind-spot.

I think most people get the difference we just don't care about people complaining about paying a lot for a phone. It's somewhat of a mirror of what used to exist between the gas prices of US the Europe. Europe taxes the living hell out of it and for quite a while it was 2-3 times more expensive so when Americans complained about $1.50 gas Europeans laughed at them and told them tough $h!t they pay 2-3 times as much.

So - it's the same situation - I think it was just a few weeks ago there was talk of gas prices here on the forum and a lot of people completely ignored the American culture and it's relation to driving. So, yes, the shoe does fit on the other foot.

I am gonna' regret this, but...

Guys! It doesn't have anything to do with exchange rates or even salaries. It is perceived value to you at a price.

If you find a match, you buy!

if, you don't, you look for a better price!!

Lacking a price that matches your perceived value, you don't buy!

Simple! What does it matter what my (or anyone else's) perceived value/price is... yours is the only one that counts!

I'll second ya on that one. I mean, if you don't care about 1080i vs 1080p then all you're going to see is a decent price vs an outrageous price even tho the cost of the 1080p might be below average for a TV of that type.

[Mackan]

At last someone that understands you don't get something for nothing in this life. Right on man. Am entirely with you and Im gonna go and get the 3G iPhone when it comes out, no matter what it costs, thats the price of it and thats it.

The number of times I have read on this forum people complaining because its too expensive is ridiculous. If you cant afford it you aint getting it. End of story.

Thank you mr1970 for your refreshing post.

Apple definatly likes people like you...:rolleyes:

[Santa Rosa]

Apple definatly likes people like you...:rolleyes:

So do lots of other companies actually. :D

[ciao111]

with news like that one people are becoming hangry so... willing to buy the newest version whenever is available

[Nubben]

Engadget - get your facts straight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

iPhone 16GB STILL available on the O2 website.

Talk about drumming up stories based on incorrect facts.

[EagerDragon]

Surely its very strange though given how popular the iPhone has been since the price drop by O2. There's still forums on lots of non-Apple sites with people talking about buying an iPhone and where to find one. You'd have thought they'd request more stock from Apple and make the most of the demand?

Can a new iPhone really be imminent?

Apple likely has their factories working overtime cranking out 3G iPhones. It would be costly to continue to produce a few thousand more edge iPhones as the factories space would be better producing the 3G iPhone since it will be sold at full price and producing more edge iPhones may end up not being sold.

There was a rumor about May 12 as the release or announcement of the 3G iPhone, but most other rumors contradict the May 12 rumor.

Probably will be announced on May 12 to ship on or around June 15 or 27 which matches fairly well with the rest of the rumors and the Letter from AT&T canceling vacations.

[jmadlena]

Don't bother mate! :)

There's a few of us Brits have been trying to explain the situation to our transatlantic chums since the iPhone was first announced. I genuinely don't mean to insult anyone but, with the best will in the world, they just don't get it. Many of the American posters on this forum (and many others) don't get it. Apple's management team certainly don't get it and they're really switched-on in other respects. It's like they understand all of the actual words we use, but they don't understand how it translates into consumer behaviour on the high street. It must be some sort of cross-cultural blind-spot.

Please don't generalize. And once the 3G iPhone is released, I think we'll all see that Apple's 'management team' gets it just fine, even with the handicap of being American...

[Dr.Gargoyle]

Nailed it.
Infinite amount of money??
If you have a dire need to compensate for some short comings, have the courtesy to do so in somewhat intelligent manner.

[Rocketman]

I can't imagine, that a CEO thinks this is a wise decision. Four weeks of absolutely NO iPhone sale will send the stock price down. I'm currently desperately waiting on news, or I should just sell my stock!

You could set a stop-loss on your stock, or you could buy PUT options to protect you on your downside.

Rocketman

[Santa Rosa]

Probably will be announced on May 12 to ship on or around June 15 or 27 which matches fairly well with the rest of the rumors and the Letter from AT&T canceling vacations.

Disagree about the announcement of May 12. Cant see that because of WWDC being around the corner. I would guess thats the stage they will be using to announce it, yes it is hardware, but the new software and the apps made with the SDK will be running on it. Seems to all fit into place to me.

If you have a dire need to compensate for some short comings, have the courtesy to do so in somewhat intelligent manner.

Dude, seriously take a joke, unlike that really bad one that is your signature.

[OllyW]

Engadget - get your facts straight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

iPhone 16GB STILL available on the O2 website.

Talk about drumming up stories based on incorrect facts.

When the story broke (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/05/08/iphone-no-longer-available-in-uk/), there were no iPhones available from the O2 website, with the iPhone page saying the iPhone was no longer available.

The 16GB only reappeared on their site this afternoon, so at the time Engadget and MacRumors reported the story, it was true.

[EagerDragon]

Disagree about the announcement of May 12. Cant see that because of WWDC being around the corner. I would guess thats the stage they will be using to announce it, yes it is hardware, but the new software and the apps made with the SDK will be running on it. Seems to all fit into place to me.



Dude, seriously take a joke, unlike that really bad one that is your signature.

Well we don't have to agree, that is fine.

I can't find it but there was also some rumors about a "New non-iPhone" device being announced at WWDC. I don't think people think this one is real.

BTW where is Buchanan?

[kockgunner]

If the new 3G iPhone comes out sooner than later this means the Macbooks and Macbook Pros are coming at WWDC.

this is what i'm thinking too.

[Brianstorm91]

If there's not a new one SOON, then this appears to be madness.

[MikeTheC]

i suppose this is the first time for such kind of announcement on Apple products. Isn't it better to let users know for a new product is coming within a month?! Or, isn't it better to lower the price for the current lineup of iPhone?

No, actually Apple ran out of G5-based iMacs once. In fact, long-time posters here will remember the apology on Apple's store web site:

We planned to have our next generation iMac ready by the time the inventory of current iMacs runs out in the next few weeks, but our planning was obviously less than perfect.

We apologize for any inconvenience to our customers.

[Moonlight]

They should do it as £299 pay as you go, or £99 + 12 month contract at £35 p/m.

Why not £99 pay as you go and £0.99 + 12 month contract at £29 p/m, OR even they pay you £299 if you buy it ?

The whole point that I got from the iPhone was that apple wanted to sell it just like any other electronic, and not like a subsidized phone, and get peoples mentality away from "you should give me a free phone, no matter how good it is". Which may suck for us having to pay for it, but it turns phones into viable commodities and not giveaways.

[JGowan]

I disagree - and your post explains why. This is MAC rumors. Not Apple rumors. But realistically, Apple themselves seem to have forgone any reasonable development to the computer products for the iPhone - and in the long term, I think that will be to their detriment. One need only look at the delay to 10.5 because of a damn cell phone - a cell phone which still lags behind its rivals massively in many areas.Doug, cut the crap. You don't even have to look at the ABOUT page of this site to know what its about ... check out the top of the home page to see "Mac Rumors: Apple Mac Rumors and News You Care About". You are in need of attention or you're super-sick of seeing iPhone threads on this site and everywhere else.

Well, just don't read 'em if that's how you feel. But why aggravate the rest of us with a goofy rant?

[m2uk]

"Apple has one of the BEST Global Supply Chain and Distribution networks in ANY industry. Therefore I feel the release of the new iPhone is imminent. They will use WWDC to highlight iPhone 2.0 and SDK Apps......"

B.S... at least for European customers...

It should NOT take nearly two weeks to ship a damn IMAC from wherever it is being made and then it sits in Germany for several days twisting its fingers. Americans may be used to next day delivery or expedited. In Europe their idea of fast delivery is "regular" courier akin to ground service.

[Moonlight]

I disagree - and your post explains why. This is MAC rumors. Not Apple rumors. But realistically, Apple themselves seem to have forgone any reasonable development to the computer products for the iPhone - and in the long term, I think that will be to their detriment. One need only look at the delay to 10.5 because of a damn cell phone - a cell phone which still lags behind its rivals massively in many areas.

Doug

First, the iPhone is run on an altered version of Mac OSX, so it is a mac product, a very tiny mac product.

Second, you just come off as jealous... and alittle whinny: "a damn cell phone - a cell phone which still lags behind its rivals massively in many areas"

Third, I think, and I am sure the record number of macs being sold agrees with me, that Apple is coming out with the BEST macs ever right now. So having "forgone any reasonable development to the computer products" makes no sense... Sure Leopard was delayed alittle, but it is a great release.

[Plutonius]

For the phone to really take off, the 3G version must be available across multiple carriers, on both pay monthly, and pay as you go.

But I, like a lot of people, will not pay £250+ for a phone, AND £35+ a month for a contract I simply don't need.

Doug

I guess you will never get an iPhone then.

[dicklacara]

Disagree about the announcement of May 12. Cant see that because of WWDC being around the corner. I would guess thats the stage they will be using to announce it, yes it is hardware, but the new software and the apps made with the SDK will be running on it. Seems to all fit into place to me.


...but, what if they want to announce something bigger at WWDC?

I know nothing, except after watching Apple for 30 years to expect the unexpected!

[djellison]

I guess you will never get an iPhone then.

If it's only ever available on contact, if the camera never matches that of the N95, if MMS isn't added...then no, I will never get an iPhone. My £45 sony ericson and my 32gig iPt will do the job.

Doug

[omega0852]

this is not true you can still buy the 16GB iphone from the o2 uk stores and online stores so what they are saying is not true so not listen to them coz they tell crap sometimes and make crap up like this it is the 8GB iphone that is sold out coz 02 where selling it for £169 not he £269 so you cant get that one till the 3G iphone comes out at WWDC this june well mid June

[twoodcc]

wow. this is crazy. surely they aren't going to not sell it for another month or 2

[OllyW]

this is not true you can still buy the 16GB iphone from the o2 uk stores and online stores so what they are saying is not true so not listen to them coz they tell crap sometimes and make crap up like this it is the 8GB iphone that is sold out coz 02 where selling it for £169 not he £269 so you cant get that one till the 3G iphone comes out at WWDC this june well mid June

And breathe :rolleyes:

It was true this morning when the story broke.

http://images.appleinsider.com/iphoneuksellout-080508.jpg

[/dev/toaster]

I think what he was suggesting is that Arn try to buy the rights to "AppleRumors.com" and then all will be fine ;)

AI, MR and all the others focus on what Apple focuses on and right now that's the iPhone. And, if you think about it, the release of 2.0 is going to help the Mac A LOT. Not necessarily because of the "halo effect" but because it's going to bring programmers to the OS X platform and that is great news for us! :)

http://applerumors.com .... he already owns it and it already points to http://macumors.com

[/dev/toaster]

I just wanted to say that I'm very annoyed with MR's trending towards the iphone. Guess what...an iPhone is not a Mac.

I don't think it is front-page news when a single supplier is out of stock on iphones in a country where almost nobody uses the iphone. And it's not a mac.

6 out of 9 stories currently on the front page of MR are about the iPhone, and one of the other three (semiconductor company) actually might be, too.

Pretty poor.

So, are you also annoyed at every post about the iPod or other Apple hardware ? I dunno about you, but MR is my primary source for all news around Apple.

The iPhone being sold out anywhere is interesting news due to all the rumors of a 3G version. Regardless of how popular it is in that country.

Apple purchasing PA Semi is also interesting for many of the same reasons.

BTW, the iPhone runs OS X ... so, depending on who you ask ... it _could_ be considered a Mac.

[BongoBanger]

You are really not getting it. You have a dozen phones that you bought for £100. If you stop selling, you will always have a dozen phones that you bought for £100. If you offer them for £120, you will be selling them - maybe slowly, but better than not selling them at all. Worst case, nobody buys them. This is not worse than stopping to sell.

Err... that was actually what I said. The point you're missing is that there is only a small window of opportunity (the time until the new version is released) to make these sales so you may not have the luxury of charging £120 and allowing for slow sales.

[tnhick]

Just in case anyone is wondering, it is in fact available.
(See attached image, taken 3:52 EST Today)

[Santa Rosa]

I disagree - and your post explains why. This is MAC rumors. Not Apple rumors. But realistically, Apple themselves seem to have forgone any reasonable development to the computer products for the iPhone - and in the long term, I think that will be to their detriment. One need only look at the delay to 10.5 because of a damn cell phone - a cell phone which still lags behind its rivals massively in many areas.

Doug

If it's only ever available on contact, if the camera never matches that of the N95, if MMS isn't added...then no, I will never get an iPhone. My £45 sony ericson and my 32gig iPt will do the job.

Doug

Think this really says it all Doug:

Doug, cut the crap. You don't even have to look at the ABOUT page of this site to know what its about ... check out the top of the home page to see "Mac Rumors: Apple Mac Rumors and News You Care About". You are in need of attention or you're super-sick of seeing iPhone threads on this site and everywhere else.

Well, just don't read 'em if that's how you feel. But why aggravate the rest of us with a goofy rant?

First, the iPhone is run on an altered version of Mac OSX, so it is a mac product, a very tiny mac product.

Second, you just come off as jealous... and alittle whinny: "a damn cell phone - a cell phone which still lags behind its rivals massively in many areas"

Third, I think, and I am sure the record number of macs being sold agrees with me, that Apple is coming out with the BEST macs ever right now. So having "forgone any reasonable development to the computer products" makes no sense... Sure Leopard was delayed alittle, but it is a great release.

That puts a finish to that very nicely JGowan & Moonlight, thank you.

Well we don't have to agree, that is fine.

I can't find it but there was also some rumors about a "New non-iPhone" device being announced at WWDC. I don't think people think this one is real.

BTW where is Buchanan?

Yea definately dont have to agree not meaning it in a nasty way, just having a differing opinion and making discussion out of interest. Hopefully gonna be an interesting few months.

As to where Buchanan is. It is the street in Glasgow that the flagship Apple Store for Scotland resides. Link to location of Buchanan Street Glasgow Apple Store here (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Apple+Store+Glasgow+G1+2JX&ie=UTF8&ll=55.862669,-4.253597&spn=0.005756,0.014505&z=16&iwloc=A)

[winterspan]

Most of the phones over here aren't paid for either. I'd say a solid 70% of the consumer owned phones in the US were less than $50 when signed up with a contract.


NO, you are not getting the point. He is NOT referring to receiving a free piece of ***** phone with a contract. Although I live in the USA, I recently looked this up. In the UK, you can get pretty much *ANY* phone FOR FREE when you sign a 18-24 month contact over a base amount.

[winterspan]

Most of the phones over here aren't paid for either. I'd say a solid 70% of the consumer owned phones in the US were less than $50 when signed up with a contract.


NO, you are not getting the point. He is NOT referring to receiving a free piece of ***** phone with a contract. Although I live in the USA, I recently looked this up. In the UK, you can get pretty much *ANY* phone FOR FREE when you sign a 18-24 month contact over a certain amount. This is for ALL major carriers. Although I would, I'm sure many would not be so inclined to buy an iPhone for $400-500 if they were able to get any high-end smartphone (Many which are difficult to find in the USA) for free on contract.

example from UK O2 and Tmobile:

Samsung Soul = FREE (18 mo contract)

Nokia N95 8GB (5MP cam) = FREE (18 mo contract)

LG Viewty (5MP cam) = FREE (18 mo contract)

Nokia N81 (8GB) = FREE (18 mo contract)

Sony Ericsson K850i (5MP cam) = FREE (18 mo contract)

Samsung G600 (5MP cam) = FREE (18 mo contract)

[megfilmworks]

this is not true you can still buy the 16GB iphone from the o2 uk stores and online stores so what they are saying is not true so not listen to them coz they tell crap sometimes and make crap up like this it is the 8GB iphone that is sold out coz 02 where selling it for £169 not he £269 so you cant get that one till the 3G iphone comes out at WWDC this june well mid JuneTwo comments; punctuation and correct spelling. Use them!

[Stig McNasty]

Two comments; punctuation and correct spelling. Use them!

Too right; sloppy presentation of however good an argument looks sloppy. If you have a point to make then spend some time, do the point justice, don't undermine it by lazy punctuation, spelling and grammer.

[Smaugg]

Hasn't anybody realized that the Apple Store online (UK) is still selling iPhones? My guess is that there are really enough iPhones to go around but O2 and CPW just have stopped selling them because it is too expensive for them to sell them (giving a cut to apple) and then having everyone unlocking them and using them in other networks. Everyone seems to think that when the 3G comes out it'll be no problem to unlock it and jailbrake it, but my guess is that Apple has an ace up its sleeve. At least for a while the 3G will be a tough nut to crack--it's the only way Apple can make serious money with the upcoming App Store and keep the networks signing those revenue-sharing agreements. My bet is that when the 3G's come out the market for those old EDGE phones will continue to flourish in ebay, because at least for a while, only the first generation will be unlockable.

[OllyW]

Hasn't anybody realized that the Apple Store online (UK) is still selling iPhones?

Have you read any of the posts on this thread? :D

[Trip.Tucker]

Or maybe they'll announce the 3G iPhone this Tuesday.

...wasn't there a rumor about an iPhone release in May? I recall something...maybe if someone wants to waste a few hours sifting through the forums :p

[DevilInDisguise]

will u still get the 8 gb iphone at the apple store in UK? but will it be for 269 or 169??

[sananda]

will u still get the 8 gb iphone at the apple store in UK? but will it be for 269 or 169??

£269.

[Shagrat]

Too right; sloppy presentation of however good an argument looks sloppy. If you have a point to make then spend some time, do the point justice, don't undermine it by lazy punctuation, spelling and grammer.

...spelling and grammar!

[Ish]

I agree with what some of the other posters have said. What's the best way to make everyone even more desperate for the new phone to come out??


Edit: Just thinking, what's the most disappointing thing that might happen? O2 stocks up with thousands and thousands of the current phone!

[Buschmaster]

Well now that the 16GB is available again I almost have to think that the 16GB current generation will be offered for cheaper alongside the new iPhone at 16GB and 32GB. I'm hoping for a pricing structure of:
$299
$399
$499 or even $449

We'll see what actually ends up happening, though. If the price is right I may have to buy a new one and give the 4GB to the misses. ;)

[Smaugg]

Have you read any of the posts on this thread? :D


No, they are quite boring. :):)

[harrier]

Not sure if anyone posted this but online apple store is showing both the 8G and 16G iphones as Ships: Currently Unavailable.

[EvanLugh]

Not sure if anyone posted this but online apple store is showing both the 8G and 16G iphones as Ships: Currently Unavailable.

EDIT: It's the UK AND US Store - Check here! (http://iappblog.com/iphone-uk-currently-unavailable)

[nomad01]

EDIT: It's the UK AND US Store - Check here! (http://iappblog.com/iphone-uk-currently-unavailable)


Apple Store in the Bullring has no iPhone display anymore. They have one attached to a speaker dock but there's no iPhone pricing to be seen.

Somebody asked for one while I was there and was told they only have 16gb models. The guy suggested trying Carphone Warehouse for an 8Gb model.

Looks like they're really winding down the old model.

[keith57]

in response to some previous posts:

For me the flat rate access, the £35 monthly fee, is great value which I'm happy to pay. I can use the Internet as much as I like without worrying about running up a large bill. When I had to move from Vodafone to O2 it was the one thing the Vodafone rep who was trying their best to persuade me how rubbish the iPhone was had no answer to.

I'm also happy to pay the upfront cost of he phone - for me the whole package, user experience, etc, is vfm.

O2 tech support so far is great - English speaking people who know what they are talking about. Coverage seems better than Vodafone in my area too!

About upgrading. All the people worrying about this need to just call O2. I checked before buying mine and I was told that if I bought a new iPhone for whatever reason (losing mine, buying the latest version, etc) when I docked tv new phone the system would automatically initialise this as my phone. I think this is what happens if you are given a replacement phone under guarante if yours becomes faulty. I could then just sell the old one or give it away. The new owner would have the option to start a new contract with O2 if they wanted to.

[EvanLugh]

Apple Store in the Bullring has no iPhone display anymore. They have one attached to a speaker dock but there's no iPhone pricing to be seen.

Somebody asked for one while I was there and was told they only have 16gb models. The guy suggested trying Carphone Warehouse for an 8Gb model.

Looks like they're really winding down the old model.

I don't know if you've been reading the other thread, but all online stores which sell the iPhone have 'currently unavailable'. Maybe a 16-32GB refresh? I'm still not sure about iP2..

[nomad01]

I don't know if you've been reading the other thread, but all online stores which sell the iPhone have 'currently unavailable'. Maybe a 16-32GB refresh? I'm still not sure about iP2..

Yes that was my point... it's not just the online stores. The bricks and mortar stores seem to have adopted the same stance.