Apple Developing Wiimote-Like Controller?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Appleinsider reports (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/05/08/apple_developing_3d_gaming_controller_for_apple_tv.html) on a new Apple patent application that was published today that reveals Apple has done research on a 3d remote similar to the Nintendo Wii remote (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_Remote).The present invention can include multi-dimensional (e.g., 2-D or 3-D) remote control systems that can detect an absolute location to which a remote control is pointing in first and second orthogonal axes (e.g., the x- and y-axes). Remote control systems of the present invention also can detect the absolute position of the remote control in a third orthogonal axis (e.g., the z-axis).
The 3d remote could be used to manipulate objects and photos on the screen as well as zoom in and out based on user movements.

The patent application describes the use of fixed light sources as well as accelerometers resembling the implementation (http://www.nytimes.com/packages/khtml/2006/12/21/business/20061221_HOWW_GRAPHIC.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1210265630-ZYyHN/xjkFm3gAkqgkCsQA) of the Nintendo Wii controller. The Nintendo Wii has been the surprise hit amongst the next generation gaming consoles primarily due to its innovative controller. Appleinsider speculates that Apple's version of the controller is intended for the Apple TV.

As with all patent applications, this may not represent technology planned for any particular project, though recent job descriptions (http://jobs.apple.com/index.ajs?BID=1&method=mExternal.showJob&RID=7302&CurrentPage=1) have listed "remote controls" as one of the technologies Apple is developing. Apple currently ships the simple Apple Remote (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Remote) with their iMacs and Apple TV.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/05/08/apple-developing-wiimote-like-controller/)

[ltldrummerboy]

This would be way better than Darwiinremote. I doubt if it'll ever make it out of Cupertino, though. It really doesn't seem practical enough for Apple.

[Stridder44]

Nice to see some transformation finally for the Apple Remote.

[SciTeach]

I'm curious to know how many people use their remote with their computer. I have one....still in its' plastic sleeve.;)

[forafireescape]

This would be freaking ridiculously awesome.

[fanbrain]

A Wii-like remote would be ideal for the AppleTV. I can't stand entering text or navigating as is. Bring it on.

[Peel]

I'm curious to know how many people use their remote with their computer. I have one....still in its' plastic sleeve.;)

I've used mine a few times, but only when giving powerpoint or keynote presentations, and my MB is attached to a projector. For that it's great, but I haven't yet found any other use that really calls for it.

[kuebby]

Nice to see some transformation finally for the Apple Remote.

That would be so cool to get a Wii-mote type remote control with every Mac that can do everything your mouse or trackpad can do.

It would probably even work better with a Mac because you wouldn't need a sensor bar, it could be built into the display.

Also, I wonder how this would affect the Mac as a gaming platform?

[c0mmander venus]

the apple remote is actually pretty handy, but i think they could put a little more innovation into it to really hold up to the apple standards. it'd be fun to see how hard you could swing it when flippin through cover flow.

but for people like me that do some serious videogaming, the remote is nice because i'll play music through my iMac while sitting in my rocker chair and be able to change a song without getting up or looking at the screen.

[callmemike20]

Also, I wonder how this would affect the Mac as a gaming platform?

It definitely wouldn't attract hardcore gamers. Look at the wii. Sure, the remote is great and all, but the games are so basic and they mainly attract the casual gamer. So, I don't think this would really bring mac up in the gaming market. It will just be another benefit of what is already there.

[gifford]

of all the elusive patents this one actually stands a chance of materializing IMO.

Could be used as a general purpose input device.

[MikeTheC]

Would that make this an "iWii"?

I mean, obviously I do, from time to time, but still...

[MattJessop]

This could possibly work, but it's a long long way off before it could be a viable replacement for actual pointing. Take the Wii for example; if you are too near to the sensors, then it looses its accuracy, and you really need to be a bit away for it to be most accurate.

This 'could' be useful for things such as the Apple TV, and in the future will be useful for control I think in certain aspects. Most likely we won't see anything from it however, at least for a while.

[p4panic]

Sounds like an iphone app to me.

[liberty4all]

Ok all you slow-pokes, Microsoft already spilled the beans last month! Can you say 'foreshadowing'? ;-)

http://www.officeformac.com/blog/Announcing-Microsoft-Games-for-Apple-Remote

Announcing Microsoft Games for Apple Remote

You’ve been asking what MacBU’s plans are for Apple’s hottest new device, well… Hot on the heels of their successful integration of the Apple Remote with PowerPoint 2008 for Mac, Microsoft’s Macintosh Business Unit today announced a new product line of Mac-based Microsoft games using the Apple Remote as a game controller.

“If you thought driving PowerPoint with your Apple Remote was cool, just wait until you use it to play pool or chess!” says Sheridan Jones, Director of Product Marketing for MacBU. “We envision a whole line of Microsoft Games for the Apple Remote: Everything from sports to strategy!”

Said Craig Eisler, General Manager of the MacBU and co-inventor of DirectX gaming technology, “We’ve embraced the Apple Remote as a platform and extended it to a new category.” Eisler explained the vision of using the Apple Remote’s built-in accelerometers for gaming: “Picture swinging the Apple Remote in your hand like a tennis racket or golf club, then imagine that controlling an actual tennis or golf game on your Mac. Microsoft Games for Apple Remote is a big break-though for the industry. It’s going to be the best gaming device in the world!”

According to the company, productivity and playtime were meant to co-exist. To help promote Microsoft Games for Apple Remote, Microsoft included a preview game called “Prance Prance Devolution” within the productivity application PowerPoint 2008 for Mac in their recent 08.04.01 update. Inspired by MacBU’s great admiration for the legendary musicologists DEVO, the game is unlocked by pairing your Apple Remote to your Macintosh, then starting slide show in PowerPoint 2008 with any presentation containing five or more slides, advancing to slide 2, and pressing the following button combination on your Apple Remote: up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, play, pause.

Additional Microsoft Games for Apple Remote will be available starting April 1, 2008 from an online marketplace appropriately called Microsoft Macintosh Business Unit Online Marketplace 2008 Special Microsoft Games for Apple Remote Edition (MMBUOM2008SMG4ARE). Pricing for Microsoft Games for Apple Remote will start at $1 per day with a minimum two-year contract. Microsoft Games for Apple Remote are side loaded directly to the Apple Remote.

[rpaloalto]

Immersion technology!

Remember just a few weeks ago, the report of apples patent. On their laser based head mounted goggles.

http://www.macrumors.com/2008/04/17/apple-researching-laser-based-head-mounted-display/

That would be pretty cool if they paired them up.
Remember the movie the lawn mower man :)

[kornyboy]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)



Also, I wonder how this would affect the Mac as a gaming platform?

It definitely wouldn't attract hardcore gamers. Look at the wii. Sure, the remote is great and all, but the games are so basic and they mainly attract the casual gamer. So, I don't think this would really bring mac up in the gaming market. It will just be another benefit of what is already there.

Though I agree with you about the remote not attracting hardcore gamers, I disagree about the games on the Wii being really basic. There are quite a few games that are very basic but there are some options that are very intense. Nintendo does take a different approach that Sony and Microsoft and the graphics aren't nearly as good but those items have nothing to do with the complexity of the game. I believe graphics is probably the main reason that it doesn't appeal to hardcore gamers. That's just my opinion on it though.

[ArtOfWarfare]

Wow!

I may not have to have those infared iRobot walls sit under my iMac anymore.

Video showing off me using a Wiimote to play WarCraft III:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2VExWWKJjo

[Dagless]

That could be cool. Hold a button+raise/lower the remote to adjust volume. Slide left and right to rewind or fast forward the vid (with some "first direction" method so it doesn't alter timeline position and volume at the same time). Could be interesting this.

[KingYaba]

I'm curious to know how many people use their remote with their computer. I have one....still in its' plastic sleeve.;)

I use mine frequently.

[jlanuez]

I've used mine a few times, but only when giving powerpoint or keynote presentations, and my MB is attached to a projector. For that it's great, but I haven't yet found any other use that really calls for it.

Currently, there is no other use for it as far as I'm concerned either.

[ladbroke]

I bought my PB G4 two months before the MBPs came out, I was heartbroken to see that macintels came with a remote. I work out and listen to music on my Mac, and I wanted to change songs without stopping the workout. I went as far as to buy a bluetooth mouse to change songs, but it never really worked.

I watch movies on my 17 inch MBP now, and I love having a remote. I just wish this one didn't cost me $19.

[curbyourdesign]

it would be great if the next version of ATV has safari, the wii like remote would be great for browsing.

[Chobit]

I'm curious to know how many people use their remote with their computer. I have one....still in its' plastic sleeve.;)

I use my remote every day. Of course, I have a Mac Mini hooked up to my TV which contains my entire DVD collection ripped on it (with an external HD to fit it all) so it's probably not the normal case. It does work very well for this purpose though. Now if only apple would update front row so that it has all apple TV functionality...

edit: obvious grammar mistake - I should proofread these things

[ATG]

I'm curious to know how many people use their remote with their computer. I have one....still in its' plastic sleeve.;)
I do quite often. Sometimes I use my keyboard for my PC but still listen to iTunes on my mac (so I need the remote to change tracks/volume). Or if I do a keynote presentation. Or just for sitting back and watching a DVD.

[overcast]

Snore.

[macwall]

they should just buy nintendo

[L3X]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple currently ships the simple Apple Remote (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Remote) with their iMacs and Apple TV.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/05/08/apple-developing-wiimote-like-controller/)
...and MacBook and MBP...or used to I guess. I wonder why Apple decided to not ship the remote standard with these anymore.

[Macjames]

I think that wether or not you agree with this that the fact that a remote is included (unless you've been very unluckily, or above) in the box shows apples innovation.

I don't use mine all the time, but giving keynote presentations at work it really comes in handy (except when you pass it over to some one else and they start pressing the start pause button to skip), also when my MacBook is across the room i can use the remote then in front row. Brilliant, not many windows laptops come with such slim remotes.


While i think a wii like remote would be cool, i'd look a bit daft waving my arms around to zoom in on a slide in the middle of the meeting. Especially since some people already do, it could cause chaos.

A nice though, games only maybe but i think i will pass and stick with the existing remote.

[hayesk]

It definitely wouldn't attract hardcore gamers. Look at the wii. Sure, the remote is great and all, but the games are so basic and they mainly attract the casual gamer. So, I don't think this would really bring mac up in the gaming market. It will just be another benefit of what is already there.

What does a game need so that it's not considered basic? Why is Halo 3 not "basic" but Metroid Prime 3 is? Why is Guitar Hero III on a PS3 not basic, but is on a Wii?

Regardless of your arguable sense of the Wii gaming market, the Wii is still flying off the shelves and still outselling the XBox and PS3. Seems to me that Apple would be better off going after the Wii's "basic" games rather than PC style games.

[MrCrowbar]

I'm curious to know how many people use their remote with their computer. I have one....still in its' plastic sleeve.;)

use it daily either to sleep/wake and to snooze "alarm clock 2" (google it (http://www.robbiehanson.com/alarmclock/index.html))

I can't use it on my Mac Mini because it's tucked away so I don't hear the fan when using eyeTV. I use the bluetooth keyboard and eyeTV remote instead.

[muskratboy]

maybe i'm just old-school, the the Wiimote thing is the most ridiculous game "controller" i've ever used. glitchy, shaky, and craptacular... so much easier to just use thumbsticks and buttons. like way, way easier.

so now the AppleTV can have a cursor that shakes all over the place like a caffeinated chihuahua, and doesn't provide near the precision of a simple joystick. suck.

and yes, the Wii IS more basic. last-gen graphics and power, popular because grandmas and small children think it's neat. it can be neat, but it sure isn't a "real" next gen gaming device. it's a nifty toy for the young and infirm... and parents that are scared to death of "adult" games.

So yes... right up Apple's alley. if they did gaming, it would probably be something like this.

[MrCrowbar]

maybe i'm just old-school, the the Wiimote thing is the most ridiculous game "controller" i've ever used. glitchy, shaky, and craptacular... so much easier to just use thumbsticks and buttons. like way, way easier.

so now the AppleTV can have a cursor that shakes all over the place like a caffeinated chihuahua, and doesn't provide near the precision of a simple joystick. suck.

agreed. The wii controller is actually precise, but the games usually don't implement it well at all.

[eastcoastsurfer]

maybe i'm just old-school, the the Wiimote thing is the most ridiculous game "controller" i've ever used. glitchy, shaky, and craptacular... so much easier to just use thumbsticks and buttons. like way, way easier.

so now the AppleTV can have a cursor that shakes all over the place like a caffeinated chihuahua, and doesn't provide near the precision of a simple joystick. suck.

The wiimote itself is actually a pretty high resolution device. If it is glitchy or shaky, it's most likely the game. Look for some of the hacks that people have made using the wiimote. EA is already working on a game using head tracking. Check out http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~johnny/projects/wii/ Head tracking is going to define the next level of hardcore gaming.

and yes, the Wii IS more basic. last-gen graphics and power, popular because grandmas and small children think it's neat. it can be neat, but it sure isn't a "real" next gen gaming device. it's a nifty toy for the young and infirm... and parents that are scared to death of "adult" games.

You've just defined the trap that MS and Sony fell into. Defining basic and advanced in terms of hardware is where the others missed and Nintendo hit. You want challenging games (as if they even exist nowadays) go back to the 8-bit Nintendo and play Blaster Master or Ghosts and Goblins. The Wii is advanced b/c it actually changed the way we interface with games from now going forward. MS and Sony added prettier graphics (again and again and...) /yawn

[aaronsullivan]

Even before I started using my Wii remote on launch day, I thought it was the perfect TV/Tivo/Apple TV controller.

Although there are some small problems with it, it can/will be refined and it is the perfect solution to the complexity of remotes. What most of the posters here are failing to realize is that it gives you pinpoint accurate mouse-style pointer control from a relaxed position on your couch.

Many people who haven't used the wii remote imagine discomfort at holding it up or reaching out all the time, but that's not what is done in practice for basic pointing. You merely rest your wrist and on your thigh or cushion or whatever and gently pivot to move the pointer. Small feedback from the rumble-motor inside helps you feel when you've crossed over the separations between buttons as well. As a result, the first day I was typing in numbers on the Wii, I did it while barely looking at the screen.

Apple should have had this on the Apple TV from the start. It's a key component in getting higher tech set top boxes truly usable on TVs, especially by non-tech people. It really only needs one button as the interface can be entirely on the screen.

Forget games, this is how EVERY device hooked up to a TV should be controlled.

[Dagless]

they should just buy nintendo

Heh, likely the other way around. Nintendo are stupidly rich right now. Infact their ex-chairman is now Japans richest person.

maybe i'm just old-school, the the Wiimote thing is the most ridiculous game "controller" i've ever used. glitchy, shaky, and craptacular... so much easier to just use thumbsticks and buttons. like way, way easier.

so now the AppleTV can have a cursor that shakes all over the place like a caffeinated chihuahua, and doesn't provide near the precision of a simple joystick. suck.

Huh? The Wii is the best controller I've used for FPS barring the mouse. I've never really enjoyed console FPS with their basic thumbsticks being much too slow and cumbersome for speedy play. For speed and precision a direct cursor will always be better than mimicking the command via analogue sticks.

and yes, the Wii IS more basic. last-gen graphics and power, popular because grandmas and small children think it's neat. it can be neat, but it sure isn't a "real" next gen gaming device. it's a nifty toy for the young and infirm... and parents that are scared to death of "adult" games.

So yes... right up Apple's alley. if they did gaming, it would probably be something like this.

Also popular because it doesn't cost the earth to produce games for it. Hell I'm a dev and the Wii is my console of choice since it offers something different to the PC, which can't be said for the other 2.
Grandmas and kids... lol. That's why my uni's halls of residence was full of Nintendo Wii's.

[twoodcc]

this could be cool. i'm not quite sure how they'll implement this, but i'm looking forward to finding out how

[digitalnicotine]

It's an interesting concept when you consider Apple's existing line of products. Even more intriguing to think of what may be yet to come.

[nevermath]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

The Nintendo Wii has been the surprise hit amongst the next generation gaming consoles primarily due to its innovative controller.

I think that the Wii's success is not primarily due to the Wiimote. In fact, I think the Wiimote was one of the hardest obstacles for Nintendo to overcome when initially marketing the machine. The Wii also has some pretty major game franchises (like Mario and Zelda), an extremely wide demographic, and the best price point.

This is cool though - I have my old G5 tower connected to my TV, and a remote/cursor interface would be very convenient.

[mixel]

I think that the Wii's success is not primarily due to the Wiimote. In fact, I think the Wiimote was one of the hardest obstacles for Nintendo to overcome when initially marketing the machine. The Wii also has some pretty major game franchises (like Mario and Zelda), an extremely wide demographic, and the best price point.

I disagree, yes, there are the hardcore who buy those franchises, and likely had Gamecubes too (hardly considered a success , despite having the exact same franchises), but the *vast* majority of the Wii market were attracted by the controller and its gesture/realistic motion based controls.

The Wii has a lot of good games for all different audiences, just like the other big two..

I'm not sure id like a control like the Wii's on the appleTV, I'd rather see an ipod touch or iphone based control for it with a little screen that doesnt require flailing of arms etc. :D

[motulist]

Aside from music and movie controls such as fast forwarding and changing volume, I'm not yet seeing how a wiimote kind of device would be at all useful to computer use.

And I'm barely seeing how fast-forwarding type functions would be better with a 3D position sensing remote rather than a traditional button remote. Many times when you're watching a movie your arm is in all kinds of different positions. For instance if I'm laying on my couch and I reach over my head to the remote control sitting on my end table, it winds up being most comfortable holding the remote control sideways. Or sometimes my arm is hanging down over the arm rest and the remote control is most comfortable hanging almost straight down.

If I had to first think about moving my hand with the remote in it into a particular position for my commands to be registered then that would be a huge step back from a simple button remote control.

[diamond.g]

Aside from music and movie controls such as fast forwarding and changing volume, I'm not yet seeing how a wiimote sort of device would be at all useful to using a computer.

And I'm barely seeing how fast forwarding would be better with a 3D position sensing remote rather than a traditional button remote. Many times when you're watching a movie your arm is in all kinds of different positions. For instance if I'm laying on my couch and I reach over my head to the remote control sitting on my end table, it winds up being most comfortable holding the remote control sideways. Or sometimes my arm is hanging down over the arm rest and the remote control is most comfortable hanging almost straight down.

If I had to first think about moving my hand with the remote in it into a particular position for my commands to be registered then that would be a huge step back from a simple button remote control.

Orientation in space is accounted for (at least it is in the wiimote) so you could be upside down and the computer could automatically reverse the input for you. Or at least I would hope the computer would.

[k2spitfire88]

I really was turned off to the Wii, because of the Wiimote, but when I used it, I found that it was one of the best implementations for gaming that I have used. They are all over my college's residence halls, there are more of them than there are PS3's or 360's. I love playing the Wii. This remote is a very interesting idea for Apple. I am unsure as to how this would work for Apple though. Would it just replace the existing remote? And what about the motion sensor? I think it is a great idea, just unsure as to how they will implement it.

maybe i'm just old-school, the the Wiimote thing is the most ridiculous game "controller" i've ever used. glitchy, shaky, and craptacular... so much easier to just use thumbsticks and buttons. like way, way easier.

so now the AppleTV can have a cursor that shakes all over the place like a caffeinated chihuahua, and doesn't provide near the precision of a simple joystick. suck.

and yes, the Wii IS more basic. last-gen graphics and power, popular because grandmas and small children think it's neat. it can be neat, but it sure isn't a "real" next gen gaming device. it's a nifty toy for the young and infirm... and parents that are scared to death of "adult" games.

So yes... right up Apple's alley. if they did gaming, it would probably be something like this.

If it is jumping all over the place, you might have to re-calibrate the Wiimote's sensitivity, or something like that. I think that it is a great idea, and once you get the hang of it, it is much more responsive than a joystick, IMHO.

[OwlsAndApples]

Like anything Apple does, I just wanna wait and see....I still love the keyboard and mouse (although much improved if you know keyboard shortcuts in honesty), but if they can pull off something great here i'll gladly point at my computer to operate it, as well as just pointing at it to show off to non-apple users :) ("whhhaaa? it's just the screen...!? ;))

[blackpond]

I own both a Wii and an Apple TV. I can't tell you how many times I've wished the Wii remote would work on the Apple TV. It seems almost a logical next step to me to build similar functions into an Apple TV remote.

[motulist]

Orientation in space is accounted for (at least it is in the wiimote) so you could be upside down and the computer could automatically reverse the input for you. Or at least I would hope the computer would.

Okay, still even so, my main point still stands. Even for fast-forward type controls, I don't see how that's better than a well laid out simple button remote. In fact I can see several draw backs. More than that, I still see no use for it other than movie and music controls.

[diamond.g]

Okay, still even so, my main point still stands. Even for fast-forward type controls, I don't see how that's better than a well laid out simple button remote. In fact I can see several draw backs. More than that, I still see no use for it other than movie and music controls.

I can see what you mean. I guess gestures would be the main draw, but if they are more complicated than a normal remote it wont catch on.

Maybe the Apple Wiimote will have an attachment (like the nun-chuck) that can sense acceleration as well so you can have two handed gestures.

[Virgil-TB2]

It definitely wouldn't attract hardcore gamers. Look at the wii. Sure, the remote is great and all, but the games are so basic and they mainly attract the casual gamer. So, I don't think this would really bring mac up in the gaming market. It will just be another benefit of what is already there.This speaks to the ignorance of the so-called "hard core gamer" though.

In fact, all the X-Box lovin' 20 something hard core gamer boys, represent just a tiny smidge of the gaming market. Its a very valuable part of the market, but over the last few years the casual gamer market is growing in leaps and bounds as well. I think in a few years, today's popular wisdom that the hard core GTA IV and Halo guys somehow comprise pretty much the entire market will seem laughable.

There are literally millions of folks out there that have really liked games and gaming and have all their life, but *don't* necessarily like shooting/driving/aggressive games. It's just that no one has really offered anything worthwhile to that market yet. Probably because they've all been chasing after the dollars that a game like Halo can generate. Remember too that before the computer, (not that long ago), driving and shooting simulations were hardly even a part of the "gaming market" at all! Almost all games (excluding sports perhaps), in the entire history of games could be classified as "casual" or not hardcore, by the definitions in use today.

Once the computer hardware and software advances to the point that 3D effects and good graphics are part of the minimum spec for any computer game (and that time is already here), then a "good game" becomes more about the game play and the puzzles than it is the explosions and the car chases.

I predict that so called "casual gaming" is about to go off the charts in popularity and will soon overtake games like Halo and GTA IV in terms of dollar sales as well.

[TedB]

Okay, it may just be me, but I am pretty sure this is a lot closer then you think.

WE ALREADY HAVE THE DEVICE!!!!!

Lets compare the iPhone/iPod Touch versus a wiimote.

Both have bluetooth built in
Both have a 3 axis accelerometer.
The wiimote has IR sensing built in, yet the iPhone/iPod touch can ALSO do this.

To further explain this, let me bring up this article from engadget ( http://features.engadget.com/2004/07/27/how-to-turn-your-ipod-in-to-a-universal-infrared-remote-control/ ) IR can be transmitted via a headphone jack by recording the IR waves to sound waves, and then used by playing them as sound, yet transmitting them as light. The opposite can be said, the bottom port on the iPhone and iPod Touch has a microphone line built in (currently being used in projects to add VoIP to iPod Touches. This could be used to simply recieve the light as sound and having the device figure it out. All apple would have to do is make a plug in device, and make the software for it.

This would make sense since Apple is trying to make the iphone and iPod touch a more integrated part of our lives.

[callmemike20]

What does a game need so that it's not considered basic? Why is Halo 3 not "basic" but Metroid Prime 3 is? Why is Guitar Hero III on a PS3 not basic, but is on a Wii?

Regardless of your arguable sense of the Wii gaming market, the Wii is still flying off the shelves and still outselling the XBox and PS3. Seems to me that Apple would be better off going after the Wii's "basic" games rather than PC style games.


I'm not bashing the wii at all. I guess I just stated it wrong. I own a wii and I love it. I was just trying to point out that its primary market is not hardcore gamers. The wii brought something different to gaming with its wiimote. If apple brought this to their computers, sure, more games would use it, but it wouldn't bring more games like BF2142 and Age of Empires to the mac. What it will bring is a whole new play style like the wii did. It will be something a person has in addition to their primary pc. If someone ever gets tired of halo 3 on their xbox, they can have a few friends over and have fun with a basic, yet fun and interactive game on apple tv.

I see the wii as the "casual" and "party" system. Whereas I see the xbox and ps3 and more of the kid in the dark basement hardcore system.

[callmemike20]

This speaks to the ignorance of the so-called "hard core gamer" though.
I predict that so called "casual gaming" is about to go off the charts in popularity and will soon overtake games like Halo and GTA IV in terms of dollar sales as well.

I totally agree with that. But typically, when people are speaking about gaming on a pc, it is a majority of the time "hardcore gaming". You don't see a casual gamer going to their computers to play pac man. That's what the xbox live arcade is for. I think that the xbox live arcade and wii virtual console are going to attract more casual gamers than ever.

[aaronsullivan]

Why do I see posts about "flailing arms" around to fast forward and being less capable than a remote.

Do you use a remote to control your computer? Or even the keyboard? Most of the time you use a mouse or other pointing device, right?

That's what this technology is first and foremost. It's a way to give pointing accuracy like a mouse but from a far distance and without the need for a flat surface.

The "controls" that were once on a remote are now context sensitive and show ON THE SCREEN. You point at the ones you want. When you point the remote away from the screen, they go away. What could be more simple?

Besides music, volume, channel control, you could use it to choose menus, files, or any items in a list. Drag things around like on a computer desktop, peck at letters on a keyboard or numberpad to type or play a game.

Get out and try a Wii. Then, you'll get it.

Shaky cursor guy... close the blinds or recalibrate. IR from open windows or bright light sources can cause interference. This is one of the issues Apple would hopefully improve, possibly using an entirely separate approach to the same end result.

[dernhelm]

Why do I see posts about "flailing arms" around to fast forward and being less capable than a remote.

Do you use a remote to control your computer? Or even the keyboard? Most of the time you use a mouse or other pointing device, right?

That's what this technology is first and foremost. It's a way to give pointing accuracy like a mouse but from a far distance and without the need for a flat surface.


I was thinking the same thing almost, but the biggest problem with it is just that, getting a pointing device to have the same resolution and accuracy as a mouse. Because if the Wii is any indication we are a LONG way off from that.



The "controls" that were once on a remote are now context sensitive and show ON THE SCREEN. You point at the ones you want. When you point the remote away from the screen, they go away. What could be more simple?

Besides music, volume, channel control, you could use it to choose menus, files, or any items in a list. Drag things around like on a computer desktop, peck at letters on a keyboard or numberpad to type or play a game.

Get out and try a Wii. Then, you'll get it.


It would work and it would actually be a pretty fun way to operate front row or apple tv menus, but to drag stuff around my desktop? Not unless my desktop was 640 x 480 resolution (hint, it isn't), and I was VERY patient.

If you've got a Wii, you must be a whole lot better than I am in a dark basement with no obstructions at 'typing' on the thing. Because for me, that is by far as painful as it gets. My kids wanted Opera on it, and I downloaded it, but it so painful to use that we don't even bother with it.

[hhaeschen]

I'm curious to know how many people use their remote with their computer. I have one....still in its' plastic sleeve.;)

As a college student I often watch movies on my Mac and, of course, it's also the center of everything music. For these purposes I like to use the remote. It's so much easier than anything else.

It would be great though to see new ideas and possibilities from Apple for the use of the remote.

[muncyweb]

but for people like me that do some serious videogaming, the remote is nice because i'll play music through my iMac while sitting in my rocker chair and be able to change a song without getting up or looking at the screen.

And the world gets just a little lazier...

[MrCrowbar]

Okay, still even so, my main point still stands. Even for fast-forward type controls, I don't see how that's better than a well laid out simple button remote. In fact I can see several draw backs. More than that, I still see no use for it other than movie and music controls.

It would be great for fast forwarding actually. Moving the mouse preciseley on a slider isn't bad for geting to the moment you want.

But imagine just pressing the button and twisting your hand to the right to fast forward. The more you twist, the faster it goes. UNtwist and it just resumes playing. Twist it slightly to the left to rewind those last awesome seconds.

Search your iTunes library with a pointy clicky on screen keyboard. Right now, selecting the song you want is painful with the few buttons of the apple remote, they should have put a clickwheel in there. Imagine using a wiimote to scroll around like on an iphone. Actually, you could make a iPhone-like UI but have that remote as finger. Just use a similar context sensitive interface with pop up keyboard and everything.

I'm all for a new Apple Remote that's like the old one but with additional pointing capabilities.

[rowanmmcdonald]

Um, am I not the only one who thinks that patent directly clashes with the Wii's patent? From the description it seems to do exactly what the Wiimote does. Don't think Nintendo will let Apple have this one.

[JMax1]

I think we are all stuck on the idea that it would look like the wii remote. Imagine something different. Imagine taking the technology in the wii and iPhone and what they have learned in the past year and a half. Shrink it, make it more sophisticated and sensitive. I don't know, maybe it's something you pit on your fingers and can manipulate things in three dimensions. Imagine pinching and swiping in 3D. All with your fingers and not something you are holding in your palm.

[aidanpendragon]

Um, am I not the only one who thinks that patent directly clashes with the Wii's patent? From the description it seems to do exactly what the Wiimote does. Don't think Nintendo will let Apple have this one.

Damn, I read 56 comments and #57 made the same point that I first thought.

Sentence from the story: "resembling the implementation of the Nintendo Wii controller."

Nintendo has that patented out the wazoo. Apple's device sounds to be in very close overlap/infringement of that.

[!¡ V ¡!]

Every time some source stumbles across an :apple: patent and then following its post on MR, the responses will either be:

Positive - bring _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ on!

Neutral - would be nice, however depending on its implementation function and price I will decide when its released

Negative - why is :apple: wasting their time on _ _ _ _ _ _ products, focus on computer first.


And there you have it, the summary of this thread, now no need to post any further. ;):p:):D

[SkippyThorson]

Sounds like an iphone app to me.

Exactly what I was thinking. It would make a nice remote already. I just want Apple to release it and not pay some tiny company in some forest $20 for some badly written app.

[MacFabulous]

Think big... Think Different!

I think maybe one or two versions of the new Cinema Displays will be the new "iTV" or "AppleTv". You know... All-in-one box with a über-remote, which is iPhone 2 ;)

The iTV/AppleTV should then have the full blown Leopard OS, in this new All-In-One box, and thus include Safari, iChat and Gaming among other good things! The new mouse of cause... would be "iPhone 2" and as this this patent shows... the new game controller!!!:D

I would really like my TV to be Apple branded! It would be stylish! No doubt!:D Yes... I know, this is not their marked - but anyways!:o

If this Scenario where to happen... companies like DELL and Microsoft would **** their pants!:p

[Quillz]

I'm curious to know how many people use their remote with their computer. I have one....still in its' plastic sleeve.;)
I use it with Awaken 4 every day.

[lazyrighteye]

Any possibility this tech makes its way into iPhones &/or Touches?
Other iPods??

[jons]

Wow!

I may not have to have those infared iRobot walls sit under my iMac anymore.

Video showing off me using a Wiimote to play WarCraft III:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2VExWWKJjo

Haha, that's great. Too bad it doesn't work with the nunchuck tho...

[Trip.Tucker]

Ok all you slow-pokes, Microsoft already spilled the beans last month! Can you say 'foreshadowing'? ;-)

http://www.officeformac.com/blog/Announcing-Microsoft-Games-for-Apple-Remote

Announcing Microsoft Games for Apple Remote

You’ve been asking what MacBU’s plans are for Apple’s hottest new device, well… Hot on the heels of their successful integration of the Apple Remote with PowerPoint 2008 for Mac, Microsoft’s Macintosh Business Unit today announced a new product line of Mac-based Microsoft games using the Apple Remote as a game controller.

“If you thought driving PowerPoint with your Apple Remote was cool, just wait until you use it to play pool or chess!” says Sheridan Jones, Director of Product Marketing for MacBU. “We envision a whole line of Microsoft Games for the Apple Remote: Everything from sports to strategy!”

Said Craig Eisler, General Manager of the MacBU and co-inventor of DirectX gaming technology, “We’ve embraced the Apple Remote as a platform and extended it to a new category.” Eisler explained the vision of using the Apple Remote’s built-in accelerometers for gaming: “Picture swinging the Apple Remote in your hand like a tennis racket or golf club, then imagine that controlling an actual tennis or golf game on your Mac. Microsoft Games for Apple Remote is a big break-though for the industry. It’s going to be the best gaming device in the world!”

According to the company, productivity and playtime were meant to co-exist. To help promote Microsoft Games for Apple Remote, Microsoft included a preview game called “Prance Prance Devolution” within the productivity application PowerPoint 2008 for Mac in their recent 08.04.01 update. Inspired by MacBU’s great admiration for the legendary musicologists DEVO, the game is unlocked by pairing your Apple Remote to your Macintosh, then starting slide show in PowerPoint 2008 with any presentation containing five or more slides, advancing to slide 2, and pressing the following button combination on your Apple Remote: up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, play, pause.

Additional Microsoft Games for Apple Remote will be available starting April 1, 2008 from an online marketplace appropriately called Microsoft Macintosh Business Unit Online Marketplace 2008 Special Microsoft Games for Apple Remote Edition (MMBUOM2008SMG4ARE). Pricing for Microsoft Games for Apple Remote will start at $1 per day with a minimum two-year contract. Microsoft Games for Apple Remote are side loaded directly to the Apple Remote.

Cool. Nice find :)

[lazyrighteye]

Ok all you slow-pokes, Microsoft already spilled the beans last month! Can you say 'foreshadowing'? ;-)

http://www.officeformac.com/blog/Announcing-Microsoft-Games-for-Apple-Remote

Announcing Microsoft Games for Apple Remote

You’ve been asking what MacBU’s plans are for Apple’s hottest new device, well… Hot on the heels of their successful integration of the Apple Remote with PowerPoint 2008 for Mac, Microsoft’s Macintosh Business Unit today announced a new product line of Mac-based Microsoft games using the Apple Remote as a game controller.

“If you thought driving PowerPoint with your Apple Remote was cool, just wait until you use it to play pool or chess!” says Sheridan Jones, Director of Product Marketing for MacBU. “We envision a whole line of Microsoft Games for the Apple Remote: Everything from sports to strategy!”

Said Craig Eisler, General Manager of the MacBU and co-inventor of DirectX gaming technology, “We’ve embraced the Apple Remote as a platform and extended it to a new category.” Eisler explained the vision of using the Apple Remote’s built-in accelerometers for gaming: “Picture swinging the Apple Remote in your hand like a tennis racket or golf club, then imagine that controlling an actual tennis or golf game on your Mac. Microsoft Games for Apple Remote is a big break-though for the industry. It’s going to be the best gaming device in the world!”

According to the company, productivity and playtime were meant to co-exist. To help promote Microsoft Games for Apple Remote, Microsoft included a preview game called “Prance Prance Devolution” within the productivity application PowerPoint 2008 for Mac in their recent 08.04.01 update. Inspired by MacBU’s great admiration for the legendary musicologists DEVO, the game is unlocked by pairing your Apple Remote to your Macintosh, then starting slide show in PowerPoint 2008 with any presentation containing five or more slides, advancing to slide 2, and pressing the following button combination on your Apple Remote: up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, play, pause.

Additional Microsoft Games for Apple Remote will be available starting April 1, 2008 from an online marketplace appropriately called Microsoft Macintosh Business Unit Online Marketplace 2008 Special Microsoft Games for Apple Remote Edition (MMBUOM2008SMG4ARE). Pricing for Microsoft Games for Apple Remote will start at $1 per day with a minimum two-year contract. Microsoft Games for Apple Remote are side loaded directly to the Apple Remote.

WTF?!?

[sebimeyer]

I take offence to that! my mac is nothing to shake a stick at! :rolleyes:

[sebimeyer]

WTF?!?
Not WTF. Just an Aprils Fool joke.

[Abstract]

You've just defined the trap that MS and Sony fell into. Defining basic and advanced in terms of hardware is where the others missed and Nintendo hit. You want challenging games (as if they even exist nowadays) go back to the 8-bit Nintendo and play Blaster Master or Ghosts and Goblins. The Wii is advanced b/c it actually changed the way we interface with games from now going forward. MS and Sony added prettier graphics (again and again and...) /yawn

Exactly. The interface is advanced. This is what changed everything. The PS3 still and XBox still use the same controllers from 24 years ago, except with more buttons. Graphics have improved, but the actual "playing" of the game hasn't changed much at all. It's like saying that Chess could be more advanced if polished brass chess sets with carbon fiber boards were used rather than wood and plastic, like with most sets. It wouldn't be advanced. It would just be more flash, no substance.

So which one system is more advanced?

[ltldrummerboy]

I use it with Awaken 4 every day.
I completely forgot that I use it for that. It works great. But I think that's the only thing.

[stephenli]

It definitely wouldn't attract hardcore gamers. Look at the wii. Sure, the remote is great and all, but the games are so basic and they mainly attract the casual gamer. So, I don't think this would really bring mac up in the gaming market. It will just be another benefit of what is already there.

Didn't you realized that there is a game called The Legend of Zelda?
I don't think it is basic and mainly for casual gamer.

Wii remote is a nice pointing device and motion sensor. However, as a pointing device it seems to me that the accuracy is not too high. I have been using it since its launch day, and it perform well for those games which do not require direct pointing (eg Wii sport) but for those shooting game I think PS3's time crisis have much much higher accuracy

well...hopefully apple would develop some nice things for all of us.

[Xtremehkr]

Maybe they are working on incorporating that technology into next generation Apple mice. That would be awesome, instead of just rolling the mouse around, you could twist it, shake it, point it, pull it, thrust it, and get tactile feedback at the same time. Whenever I am using my Wiimote, I kind of think of it as an on screen mouse, and the controller changes depending on what I am doing.

That would be the biggest change in mouse technology since it was widely adopted I would imagine.

[chickenninja]

i cant believe this motion sensitive technology is still considered awesome to some people, In my perspective i would rather have a stationary remote that requires the least movement possible, like a traditional gaming controller.

[MacFly123]

I've used mine a few times, but only when giving powerpoint or keynote presentations, and my MB is attached to a projector. For that it's great, but I haven't yet found any other use that really calls for it.

You'd think that if they are only going to include it with some computers now that it would for sure be the laptops for that purpose of presentations which is probably one of the few times people actually use it right??? But NOOOO, now it only comes with the iMac and Mini lol, explain that logic to me! :rolleyes:

[synthfreek]

Forget games, this is how EVERY device hooked up to a TV should be controlled.

nah. you wanna know how "EVERY device hooked up to a TV should be controlled"?

"COMPUTER! Start playback at 00:30. Raise volume 10%. Begin!"

[Bubba Satori]

Everything but new minis and ACDs from the Cupertino Toy Company. :rolleyes:

[hayesk]

i cant believe this motion sensitive technology is still considered awesome to some people, In my perspective i would rather have a stationary remote that requires the least movement possible, like a traditional gaming controller.

So you want to move a mouse pointer with a little analog stick? Good luck with that. Have you tried a Wii remote? You probably should - it's a well designed device.

[aaronsullivan]

I was thinking the same thing almost, but the biggest problem with it is just that, getting a pointing device to have the same resolution and accuracy as a mouse. Because if the Wii is any indication we are a LONG way off from that. ...
It would work and it would actually be a pretty fun way to operate front row or apple tv menus, but to drag stuff around my desktop? Not unless my desktop was 640 x 480 resolution (hint, it isn't), and I was VERY patient. ...
If you've got a Wii, you must be a whole lot better than I am in a dark basement with no obstructions at 'typing' on the thing. Because for me, that is by far as painful as it gets. My kids wanted Opera on it, and I downloaded it, but it so painful to use that we don't even bother with it.
Except this isn't supposed to be a mouse replacement for sitting at a computer, it's replacing other TV remote possibilities. Ever type in a number or sentence using a standard TV remote or a game control pad?

There is no issue with resolution with the Wii mote. Accuracy is interesting. If you compare it to a gun game, you really need careful calibration because you will be lining up your eye with your target. That's irrelevant with most user interface stuff (like a mouse for instance) because you rely on a movement ratio between your hand and what you see on the screen.

If you are having issues pointing with your wiimote. Look into recalibrating. Some people don't realize that you can change the sensitivity to make it more accurate in a certain distance range.

Even though apple mentioned the accelerometer, I think the key benefit is the pointing which is COMPLETELY unrelated (and seems to get jumbled into this discussion in weird ways.)

I do like the "twist to fast forward" option. That would work pretty well. Incidentally, you don't need an accelerometer to measure twisting either.

A related technology that will likely get into the next-gen consoles (all of them? Just Nintendo?) is the zcam tech which actually measures a z distance for every pixel the camera picks up. This is pretty wild, but actually not very suited to "pointing" but more of the other types of motion and is far, far more accurate and responsive than accelerometers. There could be a combination of a device and this cam to take on the pointing and this easily sidesteps Nintendo's patents.

Apple's patent here does step directly on what Nintendo has going. It's likely an attempt by someone at Apple to hopefully get a chance at a tech Apple immediately realized it should have.

(oh, on the voice thing. Please think it through to the end. "Computer! Lower volume! Computer! Listen to me! Computer!!! LOWER VOLUME!!! Someone find the remote, it can't hear me." There are ways around that though, but it takes some training and probably involves a button and/or a wireless lapel mic.)