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MacBytes
May 13, 2008, 02:22 PM
http://www.macbytes.com/images/bytessig.gif (http://www.macbytes.com)

Category: Opinion/Interviews
Link: Why Apple Can't Kill The BlackBerry (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20080513152208)
Description:: It's official: The stock market doesn't reward companies for original design. The BlackBerry Bold, introduced Monday, is the latest sign that Research In Motion is scrambling to blunt Apple's advance.

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

Passante
May 13, 2008, 02:36 PM
Ho-hum. Just another "use the iPhone in the title" piece to drum up hits.

NotoriousLefty
May 13, 2008, 02:37 PM
Apple can, but needs to make a 2nd version of the iphone marketed to the executives. Sorta like MacBook vs MacBook Pro. Maybe iPhone vs iPhone Pro that has everything an exec would need.

1. exchange support
2. outlook and lotus notes
3. Better email system
4. Better iCAL system that syncs with outlook and lotus
5. Easy scheduling interface
6 More business like rolodex with better options and ability to sync with lotus and outlook files.
7. Microsoft Office for iPhone
8. Voice Recorder (for voice notes) sync with calendar and auto transcribe notes
9. Sync and control powerpoint presentations and keynote
10.Ability to sign documents sent i.e. budget authorizations
11. Sync with office filing systems i.e. paper tiger
12. Push to talk ability for dispatch, warehouse and construction types
13. More indestructable
14. Cover flow for word and excel documents
15. Ability to send to printer via wi-fi or bluetooth
16. Copy n Paste
17. Any and everything the Blackberry does and then 50 more things

gkarris
May 13, 2008, 02:42 PM
I didn't know that the iPhone was meant to compete with Blackberry (at least to start with).

I thought it was the "Smartphone for the rest of us...."... :D

BornAgainMac
May 13, 2008, 02:47 PM
Forget about Exchange, the article doesn't address one concern with the iPhone. I wonder how native apps will be deployed on the iPhone for corporate clients. I don't think the App Store will work in that environment. Also corporations will probably have apps only available or usable internally in the company. This doesn't matter with Web 2.0 apps of course.

chicagdan
May 13, 2008, 03:01 PM
1. exchange support

> Coming in iPhone 2.0 next month

2. outlook and lotus notes

> Outlook = exchange. Lotus Notes will come from a third party app.

3. Better email system

> .mac push email, coming in iPhone 2.0

4. Better iCAL system that syncs with outlook and lotus

> ditto

5. Easy scheduling interface

>in the eye of the beholder ... what's wrong with the current scheduling interface?

6 More business like rolodex with better options and ability to sync with lotus and outlook files.

> again, syncing comes next month. Don't know what you mean by more business like rolodex. You don't actually prefer the RIM address book to iPhone's do you?

7. Microsoft Office for iPhone

>Can be provided by MS whenever they want to write and sell the software.

8. Voice Recorder (for voice notes) sync with calendar and auto transcribe notes

>Recorder is easy, probably can be created by 3rd party. Transcribing requires a lot of RAM and processing power ... works okay now on PCs and Macs, probably won't be as good on any handheld. Transferring audio to a PC or Mac for transcription would work better for now.

9. Sync and control powerpoint presentations and keynote

>Already exists. Save an Office 2007 PP presentation to a picture file, sync, you can run an entire PP presentation off an iPhone.

10.Ability to sign documents sent i.e. budget authorizations

> 3rd party app

11. Sync with office filing systems i.e. paper tiger

> 3rd party app

12. Push to talk ability for dispatch, warehouse and construction types

> Jesus, you want a swiss army knife with this too?

13. More indestructable

> whatever that means

14. Cover flow for word and excel documents

> yadda yadda yadda

15. Ability to send to printer via wi-fi or bluetooth

> yeah, okay ... again, a software issue, really DUMB to just create for an exec iPhone

16. Copy n Paste

> coming in iPhone 2.0

17. Any and everything the Blackberry does and then 50 more things

> Oh, does that mean Brickbreaker?

kockgunner
May 13, 2008, 03:32 PM
I didn't know that the iPhone was meant to compete with Blackberry (at least to start with).

I thought it was the "Smartphone for the rest of us...."... :D

yeah, now the iphone is trying to be everything. it used to be a simple phone for 'the rest of us'

megfilmworks
May 13, 2008, 03:47 PM
I'm sorry but the Bold, which won't even be out until August is a pitiful attempt to hold off the inevitable. I heard it has only 1 Gig of memory?
If you believe in RIM then invest. Personally I'll stick with the 50% increase in AAPL in just 2 months.

RIM/RIP

Forget about Exchange, the article doesn't address one concern with the iPhone. I wonder how native apps will be deployed on the iPhone for corporate clients. I don't think the App Store will work in that environment. Also corporations will probably have apps only available or usable internally in the company. This doesn't matter with Web 2.0 apps of course.
I thought that Apple announced that enterprise users will be able to load apps via password protected app pages on iTunes just for their company.

steveza
May 13, 2008, 03:58 PM
I would say that as soon as ActiveSync to iPhone is fully tested and proven in an enterprise environment the demise of Blackberry will be well under way. Having to maintain a separate messaging environment for a small number of users (percentage-wise in a typical company) is a major headache. The saving in infrastructure costs and support man-time could swing the debate towards the iPhone.

NewSc2
May 13, 2008, 04:01 PM
As much as I love the iPhone's UI, I think there will always be a segment of smartphone users that prefer a physical keyboard.

megfilmworks
May 13, 2008, 04:07 PM
As much as I love the iPhone's UI, I think there will always be a segment of smartphone users that prefer a physical keyboard.
At least for the next few years. But the younger gen will wipe out the physical keyboard in the future.

Silencio
May 13, 2008, 04:14 PM
I thought that Apple announced that enterprise users will be able to load apps via password protected app pages on iTunes just for their company.

Phil Schiller made a statement that Apple would provide some sort of mechanism for enterprises to deploy custom iPhone apps without having to go through the iTunes Store, but didn't provide any specifics. Perhaps they're still figuring it out, but no doubt there will be a solution available.

Now if only Apple would provide an ActiveSync-like mechanism for synchronizing contacts and calendars with its own Mac OS X Server product! Or hopefully Kerio will come up with something like that for Kerio Mail Server, which is what I really prefer to use for email and collaboration services.

liberty4all
May 13, 2008, 04:31 PM
When will iPhone get Push-To-Talk (PTT) Nextel Style?! This is a nice differentiating feature that I loved on my iDEN phone... Palm Centro already has PTT on AT&T's network, WHY NOT IPHONE?!:mad:

macFanDave
May 13, 2008, 05:39 PM
RIM's been around for years, the iPhone isn't even a year old (and third-party apps have yet to be officially supported. They will be in June.)

A more compelling article about why Apple can't kill BlackBerry would point out that it would be some kind of fruit-eat-fruit botanical cannibalism!

Santa Rosa
May 13, 2008, 06:02 PM
As much as I love the iPhone's UI, I think there will always be a segment of smartphone users that prefer a physical keyboard.

Its rapid to type on. I really have difficulty seeing where people have a problem with using it. I amaze people at how fast I can type on it. If I can do it anybody with half a brain must be able to manage it!! Its by far the best text input implementation I have used on any device and I have used a fair few.

The next time I read that it is difficult to type on Im going to disintegrate with disbelief then reform and hunt the person down that said it!!!! lol :rolleyes:

BongoBanger
May 13, 2008, 06:05 PM
I'm sorry but the Bold, which won't even be out until August is a pitiful attempt to hold off the inevitable. I heard it has only 1 Gig of memory?

Plus the microSD slot which holds up to 16GB and can be hot swapped.

If you believe in RIM then invest. Personally I'll stick with the 50% increase in AAPL in just 2 months.

You do realise that stock was at $200 on January, don't you?

RIM/RIP

Sorry, that's just stupid. RIM will remain the corporate tool of choice because most IT departments have embedded costs in RIM servers and don't give a ****** if your browsing experience is nice or not.

Instead of relying on things you 'heard' you might want to do a bit of research. And I mean proper research, not bloody blogs.

elppa
May 13, 2008, 06:11 PM
The Blackberry offers more than just email, proclaims RIM on their Built For Blackberry® pages.

In fact it lists a whole host of exciting 3rd part applications developed using their developer tools. All 33 of them.

Now that compares well to the zero available on the official iPhone platform, I'm willing to bet by close of day one the App Store will beat that number.

BongoBanger
May 13, 2008, 06:17 PM
The Blackberry offers more than just email, proclaims RIM on their Built For Blackberry® pages.

In fact it lists a whole host of exciting 3rd part applications developed using their developer tools. All 33 of them.

Now that compares well to the zero available on the official iPhone platform, I'm willing to bet by close of day one the App Store will beat that number.

I take it you missed the $150 million dollars they're using to set up TPA development then?

Oops.

elppa
May 13, 2008, 06:38 PM
I take it you missed the $150 million dollars they're using to set up TPA development then?

Oops.

No, I didn't miss it, I have come across this already. I'm not completely ignorant as you like to make out. The derisory “Oops” is unnecessary. I don't see how it adds to constructive debate.

To suggest we focus our attentions on applications that may or may not be coming to the Blackberry sometime in the future strikes me a hypocritical when you condone other MacRumours members on another thread for mentioning the almost certain to arrive within a month 3G iPhone in a discussion concerning the Blackberry Bold.

Seriously, instead of talking about v2.0 vapourware and a unit that hasn't been released yet you should actually consider what the Bold offers.

Digital Skunk
May 13, 2008, 06:41 PM
This post and story are typical.

A writer in the know is giving their opinion as to why the iPhone won't take down a certain market via trends and facts. And in typical fashion the thread is filled with posters that don't want to believe it, would rather bash the writer, and would rather put the iPhone on some pedestal that neither it nor it's creators want to be on.

Now that the hype is gone and the flaws are out the world is starting to wonder if the phone was that much of a breakthrough outside of it's glossy UI, and fact is, it isn't. It will be, but it isn't now.

I hope that we stop using vaporware to support the iPhone. Apple has made announcements and plans for announcements, nothing more. We can't be sold on June 9th as being the day the 3G iPhone with full App Store and thousands of software titles comes to our lives. It's be really really nice to finally get a real phone from Apple though. :rolleyes:

And I am sorry to say, the hardware on these phones is very desirable. I hope Apple has a really kick @$$ iPhone in the works when it does finally come out. Between the HTC Diamond, Samsung Instinct and the Blackberry Bold, it may be a hard choice to leave a much faster network and phone insurance for EDGE, and no insurance.

infowarfare
May 13, 2008, 07:43 PM
Sorry, that's just stupid. RIM will remain the corporate tool of choice because most IT departments have embedded costs in RIM servers and don't give a ****** if your browsing experience is nice or not.

Instead of relying on things you 'heard' you might want to do a bit of research. And I mean proper research, not bloody blogs.

YOU are the one who needs to do your research and stop purposely being an antagonist on these forums. Everyone knows you are a shill for some competitor or just an unabashed iPhone hater.

There have been tons of reports of Companies, Medical Research Staff and University faculty switching over to the iPhone in anticipation of the upcoming 2.0 software (and for the disappointment in their Treos and Blackberries.) People AND companies are both excited about the iPhone's upcoming Enterprise features.

This post and story are typical.

A writer in the know is giving their opinion as to why the iPhone won't take down a certain market via trends and facts. And in typical fashion the thread is filled with posters that don't want to believe it, would rather bash the writer, and would rather put the iPhone on some pedestal that neither it nor it's creators want to be on.

Now that the hype is gone and the flaws are out the world is starting to wonder if the phone was that much of a breakthrough outside of it's glossy UI, and fact is, it isn't. It will be, but it isn't now.

I hope that we stop using vaporware to support the iPhone. Apple has made announcements and plans for announcements, nothing more. We can't be sold on June 9th as being the day the 3G iPhone with full App Store and thousands of software titles comes to our lives. It's be really really nice to finally get a real phone from Apple though. :rolleyes:

And I am sorry to say, the hardware on these phones is very desirable. I hope Apple has a really kick @$$ iPhone in the works when it does finally come out. Between the HTC Diamond, Samsung Instinct and the Blackberry Bold, it may be a hard choice to leave a much faster network and phone insurance for EDGE, and no insurance.

And you are just full of it and yourself. Do you know the meaning of Vaporware? It means when something is advertised quite a bit by the company but is still in the concept stages with little hope for release in the near future. The new iPhone IS already in manufacturing by all reports (far from concept stages) and the 2.0 software has been released in Beta and also will be released to the general public within a month, so again, not vaporware at all.

Actually, re-reading both your posts on numerous threads, I can't believe how transparent [you are] and obvious this was... Digital Skunk and BongoBanger ARE the same person! And he's here for no other reason than to cast Fear Uncertainty and Doubt among this community. Don't believe me? Read their posts and tell me that they've ever been objective and they're not the same person... (BongoBanger also just called the iPhone and 2.0 software Vaporware in another thread. Hmm, what a coincidence. The only two people in the world that doesn't know that the software has already been released in Beta and that the hardware is at the factory.)

chagla
May 13, 2008, 08:05 PM
Apple can, ....
16. Copy n Paste
..
most primitive function is missing...:eek: wow! i'm sorry, i wasn't paying attention. it must be a special smart phone!

object of desire - http://www.sonyericsson.com/x1/

PlaceofDis
May 13, 2008, 08:11 PM
when did the iphone start competing with blackberry for the corporate marketshare?

i mean, sure, it would be nice, but i think apple are just trying to get their foot in the door at this point still. slowly expanding.

Digital Skunk
May 13, 2008, 08:19 PM
(hardware is at the factory.)

Proof?

Me? BongoBanger? Why you flatter me sir. :D ;)

object of desire - http://www.sonyericsson.com/x1/

WOW :eek: for those that are actually reading this is what many like me (fence sitters) mean. They have the hardware, Apple needs to get this hardware.

k2spitfire88
May 13, 2008, 08:24 PM
when did the iphone start competing with blackberry for the corporate marketshare?

i mean, sure, it would be nice, but i think apple are just trying to get their foot in the door at this point still. slowly expanding.

that's exactly what they're doing, there is not even an attempt at displacing RIM now, and there should not be. They need to get a bigger marketshare before that happens, and continue to improve. This is a good start, but for all the whiners, this is the first iPhone, cut it a little slack.

infowarfare
May 13, 2008, 08:37 PM
Actually, re-reading both your posts on numerous threads, I can't believe how transparent [you are] and obvious this was... Digital Skunk and BongoBanger ARE the same person! And he's here for no other reason than to cast Fear Uncertainty and Doubt among this community. Don't believe me? Read their posts and tell me that they've ever been objective and they're not the same person... (BongoBanger also just called the iPhone and 2.0 software Vaporware in another thread. Hmm, what a coincidence. The only two people in the world that doesn't know that the software has already been released in Beta and that the hardware is at the factory.)

Proof?

Me? BongoBanger? Why you flatter me sir. :D ;)



Here you go BongoSkunk, err, I mean DigitalBanger, uh, whoever you really are:

http://www.macrumors.com/2008/04/28/foxconn-to-deliver-3g-capable-iphones-beginning-in-june/

From there you can do your own research. Seriously, if you doubt this, then you need your head examined... or (and this is much more likely), as I said before, you're nothing more than being about the F.U.D.

Digital Skunk
May 13, 2008, 08:58 PM
...

I am sorry, have you read the article that was posted on the rumor site that you linked to with the big ? at the end of the title.

Or how about this:

Reports of a 3G version iPhone are all unconfirmed at present...

The big issue is that we are doing the research, and most of this 3G iPhone in June stuff is still speculation. Only fanatics care to say that it's most likely and hold it up as fact (and believe me I want it by June!). Then get sore at Apple when they don't deliver on things they never promised. The more level headed ones are sitting with the rest of us and are just waiting, or are buying their crippled phones now.

The only thing that is a fact for WWDC is the SDK and App Store. God only knows how many useful apps we will see. Probably about as many useful apps as useful Widgets :rolleyes:

Either way I think you missed the part about me wanting the iPhone to become a great phone so I could buy one... I think you missed it while you were doing the amazing research to prove that I have a double personality.

Do you have any proof for that? :D

BongoBanger
May 14, 2008, 02:25 AM
Actually, re-reading both your posts on numerous threads, I can't believe how transparent [you are] and obvious this was... Digital Skunk and BongoBanger ARE the same person!

No we're not. We're just not silly enough to fall for a load of hyped up nonsense so you do the usual fanboy thing and assume that there can't possibly be more than one person who disagrees with you.

Grow up, kid, read some proper financial papers, get familiar with RIMs business model and then come back when you actually know what you're talking about.

YOU are the one who needs to do your research and stop purposely being an antagonist on these forums. Everyone knows you are a shill for some competitor or just an unabashed iPhone hater.

Yes, that must be it. :rolleyes:

There have been tons of reports of Companies, Medical Research Staff and University faculty switching over to the iPhone in anticipation of the upcoming 2.0 software (and for the disappointment in their Treos and Blackberries.) People AND companies are both excited about the iPhone's upcoming Enterprise features.

1) Name them.
2) Compare this to the percentage of companies against those who are staying with RIM or new RIM customers.
3) Demonstrate the percentage of Fortune 500 companies who are switching

All you have is rumour and supposition because you're either too lazy or too stupid to do any research. As such you'll get what you deserve I suppose. The rest of us will get what we need.

infowarfare
May 14, 2008, 03:15 AM
1) Name them.
2) Compare this to the percentage of companies against those who are staying with RIM or new RIM customers.
3) Demonstrate the percentage of Fortune 500 companies who are switching

All you have is rumour and supposition because you're either too lazy or too stupid to do any research. As such you'll get what you deserve I suppose. The rest of us will get what we need.

Not that I should have to hold your hand for this but, Genentech, Stanford, Duke University a few more that's been announced and that's before the iPhone is even Enterprise capable. So imagine once the 2.0 update comes out with full Exchange support. (I know, it's hard for you two to imagine anything good about the iPhone.)

Speaking of Exchange, in case you missed the SDK event or just refuse to accept the FACTS:

It’s safe to say the iPhone is open for business now.

Apple has given technology managers their iPhone wish list in full in an effort to make its phone more business friendly:

* Deliver a global address list and push contact.
* Support Cisco IPSec VPN, enterprise class WiFi.
* Allow security policies and remote wipe.
* Enterprise configuration.
* And support for Exchange (also see Microsoft’s Q&A (http://www.microsoft.com/Presspass/Features/2008/mar08/03-06EASqa.mspx)). Along those lines Apple has licensed ActiveSync for the iPhone. Mary Jo Foley reported that a Microsoft-Apple deal was in the works last year.

What’s notable about that final Exchange point is that the two companies collaborated on making Exchange Server work better with the iPhone (see photo below, credit News.com’s Corinne Schulze). This collaboration also occurred on the back end so that iPhone users will still use the same email, calendar and contact apps they do today.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/images/iphone.png



And again, no need for such harsh name calling here...

winterspan
May 14, 2008, 03:55 AM
Apple can, but needs to make a 2nd version of the iphone marketed to the executives. Sorta like MacBook vs MacBook Pro. Maybe iPhone vs iPhone Pro that has everything an exec would need.

1. exchange support
2. outlook and lotus notes
3. Better email system
4. Better iCAL system that syncs with outlook and lotus
5. Easy scheduling interface
6 More business like rolodex with better options and ability to sync with lotus and outlook files.
7. Microsoft Office for iPhone
8. Voice Recorder (for voice notes) sync with calendar and auto transcribe notes
9. Sync and control powerpoint presentations and keynote
10.Ability to sign documents sent i.e. budget authorizations
11. Sync with office filing systems i.e. paper tiger
12. Push to talk ability for dispatch, warehouse and construction types
13. More indestructable
14. Cover flow for word and excel documents
15. Ability to send to printer via wi-fi or bluetooth
16. Copy n Paste
17. Any and everything the Blackberry does and then 50 more things


Do you remember what everyone has been waiting for since the introduction of the iPhone?? THE SDK! Everything mentioned there is easily done in software, and where Apple leaves things out of iPhone OS 2.0, the 3rd party community will be there to fill in all the gaps and create new innovative solutions. The iPhone will be perfect for executives and everyone else --- it will have a completely extensible software platform. If there is an application in demand that more than a few thousand people will use, I guarantee it will get produced.

Why in the world would Apple need to create a whole different device?

edit: What exactly does the blackberry software do that the iPhone does not -- or is not included in that list?

Digital Skunk
May 14, 2008, 07:13 AM
Duke University...

I want to believe this but I don't think this is true... unless you mean that Duke University's Cisco network had problems with the iPhone at first, then had them fixed (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=duke+using+iPhone+for+business&btnG=Search), then you are correct. But doing a search on the web, even from the reputable news sites, doesn't give anyone any info about Duke adopting the iPhone for business use.

Is there another link?

And yes, let's quit the name calling. It's bad enough that we have are debating issues with more speculation and hopeful wishing than facts.

killmoms
May 14, 2008, 08:51 AM
I can't believe that anyone would hold up the Sony XPERIA as anything but "yet another chunky slider" design. It's really not that different than anything else out there now. Certainly less svelte than the iPhone.

Anyone who's spent some time with the iPhone knows it gets easier and easier to type on the more and more you trust it. The physical keyboard should not be a sticking point for any but the most obstinate individuals.

Digital Skunk
May 14, 2008, 10:15 AM
...

It's about the hardware as well. Better, sharper screens, GPS, 3G, 3.5G, 4G and expandable memory.

In some very small cases it's about features. MMS, Copy/Paste, and configurable touch keyboards.

And then you have the backing that goes with it. For Sony it's the wealth of accessories, RIM has the business infrastructure, and WM6 has the 3rd part apps.

So far the only company that fails is Palm. The iPhone really isn't much more than a candy bar with a full touch screen. A far superior touch interface than any phone on the market though. But the competition is giving us that one or two or three things we were looking for in the iPhone.

As for the actual keyboard, it's virtually impossible to do any prolonged typing on the iPhone or even the HTC Touch's keyboard. Having a real keyboard helps a lot with speed and accuracy. Owning an iPhone or iPod Touch or using them in the store enough should let you know if you will be able to master it or if it's just going to get in your way, and for some, it's just a nuisance.

Krafty
May 14, 2008, 02:44 PM
I'm getting the Blackberry Curve for $75 cause I can't afford the iPhone. I don't need the iPhone so I'm hoping the BB can fulfill all the needs.