my g4 dual is dying....what do i do

[nico_rep_nico]

does anyone reallly really know how to fix a kernal panic...i just bought a g4 dual 1.4 and i have installed lots of ram and 3 harddrives......when i try to do more than 3 apps i have a kernal panic....i have reinstalled the os on all three hardrives and i have separated the ram chips(tried them separatley) and the same **** happens ...... again and again....its very frustrating and all i have found is that people go back to 9.2.2 to fix.....

what about reseting the mother board....or should i just bury the thing....

:confused:

[QCassidy352]

whoa whoa whoa, don't bury anything! If you really want to get rid of it, I'll take it off your hands! ;)

bad RAM was my first guess, but you checked that. How about some other peripheral? Like airport, or some card you added? I'm no expert, but this sounds like an incompatibility issue to me. Let's get some replies from people who really know this stuff... don't give up yet.

[gwuMACaddict]

i am huge fan of clean installs. just back up your date on a firewire drive or a few ipods. my friends and i borrow ipods to clean install once in a while. give it a shot, might work

[nico_rep_nico]

i have backed up (actually on my ipod) and i have reinstalled panther on 3 different hd's...then i went back to 10.2.4(orignal) i did clean installs and i did full erase installs.....as far as extra stuff goes no extra cards no airport(i took it out)....
another weird thing about the dual is in the apple system profiler....
instead of listing the serial number its blank and under that i have another listing called "mac sale number" and that is blank too......????
ps how hot is tooo hot....i think it gets way to hot....maybe it just me....but its my 1st dp , do they get really hot?

[jxyama]

ok, with the empty spaces under sys. profile, i have to now ask.... how did you get this Mac?

[nico_rep_nico]

i work for compusa...why...i think it was a demo....what does that mean////the empty spaces?

[rjrufo]

Have you tried zapping your PRAM?

BTW, QCassidy352, I like your tar...

[cubist]

And WDYM "how hot is too hot"? Where does it feel hot? Other than the heatsinks, and maybe the hard drive, nothing should feel hot at all. Danger, Will Robinson!

Using a flashlight, look in the back and make sure the fan is turning in the power supply. Check for excessive dust.

Open the machine and check for obstructions such as labels, pieces of paper, large amounts of dust. Sometimes demos are left on for long periods of time and get surprisingly dirty inside.

Another possibility is that your hard drive is about to fail. Again, lots of hours on it. (Hm, you've swapped the drive already... any of the drives fairly new, or do they all have lots of hours?)

[nico_rep_nico]

1st i cant see the fan in the powersupply but i feel air blowing...pretty hot...no dusk...all very clean on the inside...3rd all brand new harddrives....2 from apple ---a 120 seagate and a 60 the third was from another segate but i bought that one it was an 80....

now one more thing-- i had the 120 and the 80 in a raid on the 100 side and i had the other 60 on the 60ata side...but even after if undid that it crashed one more time.......

what about the serial number missing and the sale number being there....has anyone ever heard of that.....does i matter that its not there/

[Rezet]

Originally posted by nico_rep_nico
does anyone reallly really know how to fix a kernal panic...i just bought a g4 dual 1.4 and i have installed lots of ram and 3 harddrives......when i try to do more than 3 apps i have a kernal panic....i have reinstalled the os on all three hardrives and i have separated the ram chips(tried them separatley) and the same **** happens ...... again and again....its very frustrating and all i have found is that people go back to 9.2.2 to fix.....

what about reseting the mother board....or should i just bury the thing....

:confused:

Im on G5 and havent witnessed anything like this yet here, but what exactly is Kernel Panic and what does it do?

[nico_rep_nico]

ive been using mac for 4 years and ive never had one until i recently upgrade to a dual 1.42g4----a kernal panic doesnt exist nor can it be fixed....

no really i dont know...it has something to do with the os flipping out and not knowing what to do....so far ive found that ram can cause it, hard drives can cause it and mother boards can cause it....as well as software...talk about narrowing it down....

well wish me luck....im gonna play frankenstein with my mac to try to isolate what is giving me there kernal panics....

by the way...any one out there know why my serial is not available and i have a special sale order number in my sys profiler.? anyone order a cpu from apple direct do you have that in there ???just wondering

[Rezet]

Originally posted by nico_rep_nico
ive been using mac for 4 years and ive never had one until i recently upgrade to a dual 1.42g4----a kernal panic doesnt exist nor can it be fixed....

no really i dont know...it has something to do with the os flipping out and not knowing what to do....so far ive found that ram can cause it, hard drives can cause it and mother boards can cause it....as well as software...talk about narrowing it down....

well wish me luck....im gonna play frankenstein with my mac to try to isolate what is giving me there kernal panics....

by the way...any one out there know why my serial is not available and i have a special sale order number in my sys profiler.? anyone order a cpu from apple direct do you have that in there ???just wondering

yeah, but what do u see on the screen when that happens?

[LarryS1963]

You said it got HOT..... How Hot is Hot??
Is it a upgrade.... You said 1.4DP..
Do you have a fan on it? Is it blowing Down on to the chip...? It might be over- Heating... Maybe????

[Marlon_JBT]

I used to have kernel panics every day... until I uninstalled AOL. Now, I have forgotten what a kernel panic looks like. :)

[sparkleytone]

you need to boot to the Hardware Test CD that comes with the Computer. If you do not have one, you need to get it from Apple. This will lead you in the right direction as to what the problem is. It could very well be something as simple as bad RAM.

[rjrufo]

Originally posted by Rezet
Im on G5 and havent witnessed anything like this yet here, but what exactly is Kernel Panic and what does it do?

A kernel panic is when something goes wrong at the very bottom of the OS. Think of the OS as a large corporation, you have the big guys at the top (GUI). Then middle management. And at the bottom, all the little guys doing the grunt work. You, the CEO of your computer, control the corporation using the GUI. The GUI tells the middle management what you want to do, and if it can take care of it there, it will. Anything relating the the function of the machine itself goes on down to the little guys at the bottom - the kernel. If they can't figure out the command, or some hardware is damaged, they panic.

What you see is white text on black background cutting through the GUI. The only thing you can do from there is to restart the machine. If it's hardware related, it will happen again. If it's software, well, maybe it'll happen again.

[QCassidy352]

Originally posted by sparkleytone
you need to boot to the Hardware Test CD that comes with the Computer. If you do not have one, you need to get it from Apple. This will lead you in the right direction as to what the problem is. It could very well be something as simple as bad RAM.

well, the hardware test is a good idea, but it couldn't be bad RAM because he has isolated and tested the RAM chips.

[Rezet]

Originally posted by rjrufo
A kernel panic is when something goes wrong at the very bottom of the OS. Think of the OS as a large corporation, you have the big guys at the top (GUI). Then middle management. And at the bottom, all the little guys doing the grunt work. You, the CEO of your computer, control the corporation using the GUI. The GUI tells the middle management what you want to do, and if it can take care of it there, it will. Anything relating the the function of the machine itself goes on down to the little guys at the bottom - the kernel. If they can't figure out the command, or some hardware is damaged, they panic.

What you see is white text on black background cutting through the GUI. The only thing you can do from there is to restart the machine. If it's hardware related, it will happen again. If it's software, well, maybe it'll happen again.


Heh.. thanx for the elementary school level explanation. But hey, that's my level :D
But i'd guess that if CEO gets knocked out - the company falls apart... like get the head and the body will die next. :p

[crush7]

Hi there.

hardware test seems to be a very good idea. But if your machine is producing a lot of heat, even when you are not running cpu-intensive tasks (such as encoding video, rendering 3D animations), I suspect that there is another hardware problem that the hardware test CD will probably not find. In that case: If your machine is under warranty, have it serviced at Apple.

Anhow: Kernel Panics should not occur more often than, say, once a year, (if you're not running "irregular" software with badly written kernel extensions.).

Good luck

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by nico_rep_nico
does anyone really really know how to fix a kernal panic...
i just bought a g4 dual 1.4 and i have installed lots of ram and 3 hard drives......
when i try to do more than 3 apps i have a kernal panic....
i have reinstalled the os on all three hardrives and i have separated the ram chips (tried them separatley) and the same **** happens ...... again and again...
its very frustrating...
:confused: What do you mean "I have reinstalled the os on all three hardrives"?
1st. Have you installed OS X on more than ONE drive? :eek: Or are you saying that you simply have reinitialized all your HDs?
More than one OS X within your box can be a conflict :( and I would expect Kernel Panics because your computer is confused about which folder on which drive to access. :confused: This is a duplication nightmare!

2nd. The first thing you should have done after an install is to run Apple's Disk Utility (and again weekly), CLICK on your primary drive "Macintosh HD" (usually) then SELECT First Aid (it's the default button on top), below you will find two buttons - CLICK Repair Disk Permissions and relax for a while, cup of coffee. Then SELECT each of the other drives in turn and CLICK on Repair Disk. Do it again after any Kernel Panic, and as a weekly maintenance. If you want to have OS X automatically run a Disc Repair weekly, ASK and I'll check which recent issue of Macworld has the specific FREE solution using a script (CroniX ?).

3rd. The software RAID was a good idea but it is recommended that each set of 2 drives match in every way - size, speed, cache, and manufacturer [would not mix Seagate (good) with Maxtor (???)]. After I created a RAID with 2 matching 100GB drives (200GB total) I compared it to one 200GB 8mb cache and the RAID was 2x as fast! Cost of the each 200GB setup was about equal. I love RAIDs now.
True, using different size drives reduces the larger of the 2 drives to match the smaller (lowest common denominator) and may work without a problem, but like a mixed marriage (gender differences are a big enough strain just to start) the more differences (religion, education, culture, etc.) the more strain on the union. I would also avoid puting OS X on a RAID; if one drive fails, the RAID dies - you double the liklihood of failure.
Repair shop owners say Seagate and IBM/Hitachi drives rarely die, so you may want to use the Seagate as your system drive.
I was just in Fry's Electronics and they had 80 to 200 GB drives dirt cheap, less than $1 per GB - that's a deal. I'd get 2 matching drives between 80 and 120 to make a RAID. Or, to save $$$ I'd match one of the drives I already have as closely as possible.

4th. During the 1st year, you can buy AppleCare to extend the Apple warranty from 1 to 3 years. What do you think you should do real soon?
:confused:

HEAT? If you continue to feel it is running too hot, drag your box down to an independent (they are more likely to tell you what's wrong and WHY!) Authorized Apple Repair shop and have them check out the "heat issue", make sure you are within the warranty so it's free. Call ahead to make an appointment and ask about turn-around time. BACKUP your DATA before you take it in.

Good luck. I love my dual 1GHz G4 and hope you have a good experience with your 1.4.
And, I absolutely love PANTHER :p

[manitoubalck]

Originally posted by nico_rep_nico
i just bought a g4 dual 1.4

My advice is take it back and show them what's wrong

[Nermal]

Originally posted by MacRAND
would not mix Seagate (good) with Maxtor (???)

Maxtor's rubbish. Had 2 of them, and they've both screwed up (in the same system).

[pellucidity]

I would recommend Seagate drives, and IBM/Hitachi are still on my watchlist.

The early GXP-series drives are NOT reliable.

Sorry to shout, but I have always been able to get data back somehow. others have not been so lucky.

[Dreadnought]

Try to measure the CPU's heat. In Os 9 you had a program called Gaugepro it measures the heat of the processor. You can get it free from download.com. I believe you can do this in OS X with a code in terminal, but unfortunately I'm no expert there... Anybody knows what codes to type in terminal to see the temperature of the cpu??

[Dreadnought]

Try to run it in OS 9 for a while, is it stable then it must be a software conflict in X

[crazzyeddie]

Originally posted by MacRAND [would not mix Seagate (good) with Maxtor (???)].[/B]

Seagate and Maxtor are the same company now- the drive platters are exactly the same.

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by Nermal
Maxtor's rubbish. Had 2 of them, and they've both screwed up (in the same system). Unfortunately, this is what I have heard rather consistently from numerous others; but, couldn't say so myself since I've stayed away from Maxtors and have had no personal experience.:rolleyes:

[mj_1903]

Actually, the company analogy is kinda back to front. If the CEO (the interface) is knocked off, the company keeps on running, unlike real life where the CEO can have massive affects.

Basically, a kernel panic happens because of three reasons. One is bad programming in the kernel (early 10.3 builds had this). Second is the operating system asking for RAM that is not owned by that particular task, so it pukes (should be a way of fixing that...but it would probably degrade CPU performance massively) and then there is natural phenomenon, like heat and cosmic rays.

As for your issue, I am guessing that a CPU has some issues if the RAM has not effect. Do you notice it on particular tasks? Do you notice it only under heavy load? We may even be able to work out which CPU it is before Apple does, which is a Good Thing.

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by mj_1903
As for your issue, I am guessing that a CPU has some issues if the RAM has no effect.
Do you notice it on particular tasks?
Do you notice it only under heavy load?
We may even be able to work out which CPU it is before Apple does, which is a Good Thing. Yes, more and more, it sounds like one of your CPU chips is "sick" and like you said, it may be "dying".
Plan: Apple for repair. If fixed, keep it. Not? return it, dump it fast.
Make sure you have plenty of warranty within which to work so you don't end up eating it.:rolleyes:

[dabirdwell]

I posted something like this a day or two ago. My dual 867 has been kernel panicking and acting weird in general with a combination of an added 1GB RAM chip and Western Digital 200 GB HD with the latest Panther.

Certain applications don't respond, some don't work well or crash. I made the new drive my boot disk for Panther and wiped the original 60 to use for a small video scratch disk (I did this to avoid a size cap on iPhoto and iTunes imposed by the 60GB).

[trainguy77]

try running it in 9, then check to see if it heats up like when it is in 10. if it does heat up in 9 then bring it in to get it check(it means it is hardware realated)

:rolleyes: hope this works

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by nico_rep_nico
i have backed up (actually on my ipod) and i have reinstalled panther

os x pather 10.3.0 is known for a lot of quirky issues like kernal panics galore and crashing

that could be your primary problem...some have returned to jaguar os x 10.2.x

but i hope panther 10.3.1 could solve your issues...sounds more software related to me and like a previous poster said, backing up and reinstalling could do the trick...it saved my ibook (rev a blueberry) when it became unstable and started acting like windows 95

and when you put in an os, try jaguar or panther 10.3.1

[rjrufo]

Originally posted by mj_1903
Actually, the company analogy is kinda back to front. If the CEO (the interface) is knocked off, the company keeps on running, unlike real life where the CEO can have massive affects.


That depends on who you are implying the CEO is. As you put it, the interface (GUI) is the CEO, so if the CEO is whacked, the whole corporation will start failing.

If, as in my analogy, the user is the CEO, and gets knocked off, the corporation could still run normaly, assuming that the CEO is knocked off by outside factors (not corporate related). If the CEO is knocked off by factors within the corporation, then it will fail from the inside out. The corporation will be idle without the direction of the CEO, but will still function. If the GUI is the CEO, very little will get done in the first place because it just sits there looking pretty.

Ok, I just has visions of Tron while writing this...:rolleyes:

[dabirdwell]

Somebody, I think Sparkley, suggested the hardware test disc. This worked for me, it isolated the new RAM as the error causing factor. You may want to try that and see if your G4 has a problem with any of the new hardware.

Now if I can only get iPhoto to work again..


Maybe another install, oh boy.

[law guy]

The dual g4 1.42 is a warm computer inside. Certainly a healthy amount of heated air blowing out the back of mine right now. When I close the door to the study, it functions like a little space heater. Still - I don't know what's "hot" on yours - just really warm air inside the case? That sounds normal. Also - I note that adding add'l internal drives appears to cut down on the ability for air to circulate in the 1.42 case - could you add those in external enclosures instead? Although it's not supposed to be a problem, I wouldn't want to add anything else that produced any heat or cut down on air circulation to the inside of my enclosure - it's warm enough in there.

Good luck isolating the problem.

[trainguy77]

I know that there is one program in which it will run for 12 hours or so, testing your CPU and RAM. I can't remember what it is called? anyone? I remember it runs on X and is made to run testing homemade computers. I also keeps tabs on the CPU heat