Photography is...

[Everythingisnt]

(ex: ) 0.0005% gear, 69.0005% skill, 30% hard work :).


Post your breakdowns here..

[shecky]

99.5% the mind and eye of the photographer

0.5% gear.

[Chrispy88]

(ex: ) 50% gear, 20% skill, 30% hard work :).


Post your breakdowns here..

Photography is absolutely not 50% gear. I agree with the above poster :)

[Techguy172]

More of it is eye than gear I'm not sure I agree with shecky however it's a lot less than 50%

[JNB]

(Excluding studio work)
1% gear,
2% photographer,
3% right time, right place,
94% sheer effin' luck.

[Everythingisnt]

Photography is absolutely not 50% gear. I agree with the above poster :)

I didn't start this thread to start an argument.. jeez... Can't you see the part where I say "EXAMPLE"?

[RaceTripper]

Well, I do motorsports so I agree with it being more luck than anything. For a race event (where I get 2000-4000 shots) I would say less than 5% of my pictures are salvageable and I really like less than 1-2% of them. Having good gear is nice, but it means nothing if you don't have the artistry, luck, and technique.

[PkennethV]

I'd say gear can mean quite a lot -- certainly more than 1% if it helps you create what you want. But gear does matter less that 1% if you are not good.

[compuwar]

It depends so much on the type of photography that you can't really quantify it in general...

Nature photography, street photography and sports photography have a fairly good-sized luck component, and a large experience/skill component too. Portrait photography has a lot less luck, and a lot more skill and lighting equipment. Wedding photography is a lot skill and a little luck (or absence of bad luck perhaps.) Product photography is almost pure skill, with some equipment...

Skill substitutes for equipment in many cases, equipment substitutes for skill in fewer cases, but probably more strongly in the cases where it does.

Well, I do motorsports so I agree with it being more luck than anything. For a race event (where I get 2000-4000 shots) I would say less than 5% of my pictures are salvageable and I really like less than 1-2% of them. Having good gear is nice, but it means nothing if you don't have the artistry, luck, and technique.
(This isn't meant to be personal, it just reminds me of something...)

I've always said you can tell a good photographer by the pictures they *don't* take.

I think it may be more indicative of the LF or MF stuff where you have to slow down and pay attention, but I find that if I'm in serious mode, I take a lot fewer shots because I know when I've got it- where I'll go to spray and pray in situations where I'm further from my comfort zone.

My number of salable images tend to be about the same either way, but the percentages change a lot.

[Everythingisnt]

Well, if you don't have a camera you can't exactly take any pictures now can you...

[bobt]

It's the indian, not the arrow

That being said, the photographer makes his or her "luck". Putting one in situations with good light and such is the name of the game.

[gkarris]

a visually captured State of Mind...

[SLC Flyfishing]

A terribly expensive and time consuming addiction!

Seriously though, it's about 40% skill (knowledge), 40% a good eye for composition, with about 8% luck and the other 2% can be argued over :D

SLC

[AxisOfBeagles]

It's not a static proportion. The better the photographer, the more gear makes a difference.

The inverse also holds true - the less proficient the photographer, the less gear makes a difference.

In all cases, hard work (and time) make a huge difference.

[JNB]

Perhaps I should've paraphased Yogi Berra and said that photography is 90% skill, the other half is luck.

[66217]

Good eye and dedication are the most important ingredients. But having good equipment is also important in some cases.

For instance, many photos seen at the Photo of the Day thread would have been impossible without a SLR camera.

[RaceTripper]

(This isn't meant to be personal, it just reminds me of something...)

I've always said you can tell a good photographer by the pictures they *don't* take.

I think it may be more indicative of the LF or MF stuff where you have to slow down and pay attention, but I find that if I'm in serious mode, I take a lot fewer shots because I know when I've got it- where I'll go to spray and pray in situations where I'm further from my comfort zone.

My number of salable images tend to be about the same either way, but the percentages change a lot.For motorsports, 1000 pictures a day really isn't that much if you are shooting the entire day. With a car moving at 140MPH or more, you have to pan it for 10 shots or so. That adds up quickly. I don't see the pros taking less than I do.

I don't see how it matters that I take more shots. It's the result that counts.
http://racetripper.com/petit07/
http://racetripper.com/sebring08/

[termina3]

Qualitative not quantitative.

[nathanbookpro]

..solely dependant on light.

[iBlue]

...often so damn pretentious...

... but I'm just jealous and clueless. :p

[TuffLuffJimmy]

..solely dependant on light.

You really believe that skill, subject matter and equipment mean nothing?

[terriyaki]

my king sized bed

[atari1356]

A quote I read recently:

Photography is 1% inspiration and 99% moving furniture - Arnold Newman

[mcarnes]

...for people with obsessive compulsive disorders.

[theblueone]

My photography teacher made a joke about photojournalism once:
90% showing up
8% f:8
2% skill and everything else

Of course it wasn't meant to be disparaging to photojournalism. It was just to show how important unexpected shots tend to be to any given photojournalist's body of work.

[termina3]

...for people with obsessive compulsive disorders.

ha, I get that feeling sometimes :)

[gkarris]

... where I want you to Touch... :p

http://www.apple.com/ipodtouch/features.html#photos

[nathanbookpro]

You really believe that skill, subject matter and equipment mean nothing?

If theres no light they dont mean *****.

[indierthanthou]

Expensive.

[Azimuth]

...My Passion!

....always made better with the right lense, lighting, shutter speed, aperture, and subject.

...an art form that I hope never passes away.

...glorious with my Nikon D70.

...what I'm sure we could talk about all day!:rolleyes:

[GuyNextDoor]

3% equipment,
10% showing up,
12% timing,
70% vision,
5% creamy nougat.

[Doylem]

For a photojournalist, photography can be reduced to the mantra: 'f8 and BE THERE'...

For me, it's about light and experience. Every pic takes 1/250sec... and 25 years. ;)

[Everythingisnt]

I don't quite get the 'f8' part about photojournalism..

Anyone care to explain? ;)

[RaceTripper]

I don't quite get the 'f8' part about photojournalism..

Anyone care to explain? ;)I'm guessing that's for the minimum DOF you need. You don't want to shoot wide open for journalism?

I generally end up shooting motorsports at least f/8 (because I shoot shutter priority and end up at f/8 - f/11 or higher).

[Doylem]

I don't quite get the 'f8' part about photojournalism..

Anyone care to explain? ;)

It's just a self-deprecating expression, used by news 'snappers' to suggest that what matters is being in the right place at the right time. After that, even a tame baboon could get the shot, by keeping the camera on f8... ;)

[snberk103]

I once read a quote from one of the great street photographers - Henri Cartier-Bresson perhaps - who was being challenged by a non-photographer. The non-photographer was adamant that "being lucky", that is, being in the right place at the right time was all that was needed. The photographer agreed - that you had to be in the right place at the right time - and added that it was amazing how often the good/professional photographers got lucky.

Sorry to be so vague with the quote (perhaps someone can attribute it?) ... I'm not at home and can't check my books for the quote.

The original question can be/should be reworded though. I think there needs to a distinction between Good Photography, and Not Good Photography. And of course this is a spectrum of possibilities from one to the other.

Good Photography is at least 90% passion and dedication. I can show you 'knock your socks off' photographs made with a homemade pinhole camera, or a 30 year old Polaroid camera with a plastic lense.

Not Good Photography (and I would classify a lot of professional photography here, its not necessarily "snap shots") is about efficiency. Its about getting as many competent shots for the least amount of time and money. In this case its about equipment. Think about department store portrait studios. I don't think there is a lot of passion there.

One of things I am most thankful for is that I run a photo gallery on the Canadian West Coast, in a community full of very good and very dedicated photographers. Photographers who are very generous with their time, help and insights. I get to look at, discuss, and help create some amazing images. For me, Photography is... my life.

[Everythingisnt]

I once read a quote from one of the great street photographers - Henri Cartier-Bresson perhaps - who was being challenged by a non-photographer. The non-photographer was adamant that "being lucky", that is, being in the right place at the right time was all that was needed. The photographer agreed - that you had to be in the right place at the right time - and added that it was amazing how often the good/professional photographers got lucky.

Sorry to be so vague with the quote (perhaps someone can attribute it?) ... I'm not at home and can't check my books for the quote.

The original question can be/should be reworded though. I think there needs to a distinction between Good Photography, and Not Good Photography. And of course this is a spectrum of possibilities from one to the other.

Good Photography is at least 90% passion and dedication. I can show you 'knock your socks off' photographs made with a homemade pinhole camera, or a 30 year old Polaroid camera with a plastic lense.

Not Good Photography (and I would classify a lot of professional photography here, its not necessarily "snap shots") is about efficiency. Its about getting as many competent shots for the least amount of time and money. In this case its about equipment. Think about department store portrait studios. I don't think there is a lot of passion there.

One of things I am most thankful for is that I run a photo gallery on the Canadian West Coast, in a community full of very good and very dedicated photographers. Photographers who are very generous with their time, help and insights. I get to look at, discuss, and help create some amazing images. For me, Photography is... my life.

That's a really good quote..

And may I ask where on the west coast is the gallery you run?

[snberk103]

That's a really good quote..

And may I ask where on the west coast is the gallery you run?

Salt Spring Island. Though tonight, judging by the 'location' in your post I'm within miles of you. We are in the West End tonight.

Go Canucks Go ..... oh wait, never mind.....

[Everythingisnt]

Yes, a pity about those canucks.. :rolleyes:


Salt Spring Island is a very beautiful place, and I often enjoy trips out to that region..

Who knows, maybe one day I will wander through your gallery doors :)

[Zeiss]

gear is crucial - otherwise you could take any image with any camera, which you definitely cannot. Want to make a 2 meter gallery print of a construction site - try doing that with a 400D. want to shoot racing cars, not going to happen with a view camera. So a good photographer has to understand advantages and limitations of equipment, and choose based on that, even down to the right lens. The art and craft and creativity of photography relies on equipment, it is after all a technology based medium - so 70% gear, 30% skill and creativity [although i have not broken that down to factor in the importance of understanding the equipment].

[Doylem]

gear is crucial - otherwise you could take any image with any camera, which you definitely cannot. Want to make a 2 meter gallery print of a construction site - try doing that with a 400D. want to shoot racing cars, not going to happen with a view camera. So a good photographer has to understand advantages and limitations of equipment, and choose based on that, even down to the right lens. The art and craft and creativity of photography relies on equipment, it is after all a technology based medium - so 70% gear, 30% skill and creativity [although i have not broken that down to factor in the importance of understanding the equipment].

Anyone who wants to learn to take good photos should buy the best equipment they can afford at the time. Then they should forget about equipment, and concentrate instead on seeing. I can always recognise a photographer who is putting limits on his own creativity, 'cos his conversation will be about whether he should buy a new 'piece of glass', or not... whether he should go for the kit lens or splash out on the 2.8... whether this is a good time to buy a Cartax 100 DSLR, or maybe wait a few months and wait for possible upgrades in the forthcoming 100b model. The snappers taking good pictures will, in the meantime, be busing taking pictures and learning their craft.

Equipment matters... of course it does. But obsessing about equipment is, IMO, a creative cul-de-sac.

[Shacklebolt]

Equipment matters... of course it does. But obsessing about equipment is, IMO, a creative cul-de-sac.

See, I'm ambivalent about that. I was shooting a dance show in very poor light last Sunday, using both my D300 and D80. I had planned to leave my 24-70 f/2.8 on my D80 while using the 70-200 f/2.8 on my D300, but by the end I simply found myself rotating the lenses on my D300 because, at ISO>800, the noise difference between the two bodies is ridiculously apparent.

Honestly, I feel great about my equipment right now and don't see myself desperately needing anything that costs more than 100 bucks for a while. But saying that equipment matters 1% is the teeniest bit egotistical. When you're shooting people dancing/singing/movingwithspeed inside without flash, having a good camera body becomes important.

Speaking of photojournalism being about "being there" (which of course is a huge portion of it), the 2008 Pulizer for Breaking News Photography's Winning Picture (http://abelem.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/largelatifphoto1.jpg) was shot on a $2700 camera body (5D) at a relatively high ISO for broad daylight (800), and, as the photo is cropped, I'm sure it would be a bit weaker if it were full of noise.

That said, I'll buck the trend and say

11% gear, 49% skill, 40% cojones.

[snberk103]

Yes, a pity about those canucks.. :rolleyes:


Salt Spring Island is a very beautiful place, and I often enjoy trips out to that region..

Who knows, maybe one day I will wander through your gallery doors :)

Yes, Salt Spring is quite nice. We started off by visiting (from Vancouver) - then visiting more often - then before we knew it I forgot to go back to Vancouver.

I don't know if I'm allowed to promote the Gallery in the forum - but Google Galleons Lap and Salt Spring - hint hint. If you are on the island, call or email first as I'm keeping "Salt Spring Hours", which basically means I open when I'm expecting visitors, or when I feel like it. There are some photo shows coming up at ArtSpring (the community arts centre). One show in June ,and the other in August - if you want details let me know, but its a great excuse to visit the island - there are some internationally known photographers who will be showing. I always have photos on the walls of my Gallery.

This is an interesting thread. I think there needs to be distinction made between "Art" photography, and "Commercial" photography. The first is photography one creates, then hopes a client will buy it. The second is photography that the client wants, that they hope you can create. And of course, there can be a lot overlap. Hmmm.

[Doylem]

See, I'm ambivalent about that. I was shooting a dance show in very poor light last Sunday, using both my D300 and D80. I had planned to leave my 24-70 f/2.8 on my D80 while using the 70-200 f/2.8 on my D300, but by the end I simply found myself rotating the lenses on my D300 because, at ISO>800, the noise difference between the two bodies is ridiculously apparent.

Honestly, I feel great about my equipment right now and don't see myself desperately needing anything that costs more than 100 bucks for a while. But saying that equipment matters 1% is the teeniest bit egotistical. When you're shooting people dancing/singing/movingwithspeed inside without flash, having a good camera body becomes important.


Need for equipment, fine. Again, you buy what you can afford. But a lot of 'photographers' are, essentially, camera collectors... whose passion for the very latest gear keeps them buying. But they tend not to use all that expensive gear to take good pix.

The good aspect is that I can buy their surplus gear on eBay - second-hand yet barely used. ;)

The luck/skill equation does depend on what you're photographing. With sports, or groups of people, etc, you may need to shoot 100 pix just to get one keeper. But if a landscape is lit right, you may get it in one...

[Digital Skunk]

My photography teacher made a joke about photojournalism once:
90% showing up
8% f:8
2% skill and everything else

Of course it wasn't meant to be disparaging to photojournalism. It was just to show how important unexpected shots tend to be to any given photojournalist's body of work.

Amen to that. My professor spent a good portion of our semester showing us all the images of failed shots because the shooter was standing in the wrong place at the wrong time. Like the one posted below. Look how many photogs missed the shot simply by being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The good aspect is that I can buy their surplus gear on eBay - second-hand yet barely used. ;)

AMEN!! Got a slightly used D2xs and 17-35 f2.8 for around $1500. Can't bet that any day.

[Everythingisnt]

Yes, Salt Spring is quite nice. We started off by visiting (from Vancouver) - then visiting more often - then before we knew it I forgot to go back to Vancouver.

I don't know if I'm allowed to promote the Gallery in the forum - but Google Galleons Lap and Salt Spring - hint hint. If you are on the island, call or email first as I'm keeping "Salt Spring Hours", which basically means I open when I'm expecting visitors, or when I feel like it. There are some photo shows coming up at ArtSpring (the community arts centre). One show in June ,and the other in August - if you want details let me know, but its a great excuse to visit the island - there are some internationally known photographers who will be showing. I always have photos on the walls of my Gallery.

This is an interesting thread. I think there needs to be distinction made between "Art" photography, and "Commercial" photography. The first is photography one creates, then hopes a client will buy it. The second is photography that the client wants, that they hope you can create. And of course, there can be a lot overlap. Hmmm.

Hehe, I wish I could keep those kind of hours where I work.. It does sound Idyllic though, having an art gallery in one of the prettiest places in the world :).

I agree about the distinction between commercial and art photography... In fact, there are so many different approaches to photography it sounds pretty hard to sum it up into one 'breakdown'.


(PS - could you pm me the details about the art shows? I know I'll be away in June but maybe I'll be able to visit the island around august..)