LED Screens in All MacBooks by 2009?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Economic Daily News reports (http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20080521PB201.html) (via Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/21/apple-to-add-blu-led-displays-to-all-macbooks-in-2009-says-paper/)) that Apple will start using LED backlit screens in all of their MacBooks in 2009.

Steve Jobs had previously announced (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/05/02/a-greener-apple/) the intended transition to the environmentally friendly LED screens, but left no exact time-table for the switch. LED displays were first introduced into the Mac line with the 15" MacBook Pro in June 2007. Advantages of the first Macbook Pro LED screens included (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/06/05/macbook-pro-led-details/):

- extended battery life
- instantly at full brightness, no warm up necessary
- same brightness and color range as previous screens.

The LED screen has since made its way into the 17" MacBook Pro as a $100 upgrade and the MacBook Air as a standard part. In fact, the MacBook Air's LED display has been noted to be particularly bright compared to the rest of Apple's laptops. Meanwhile, even though the next MacBook revision is expected (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/05/15/apples-next-macbook-due-in-q3-2008/) in the 3rd quarter of this year, MacBook customers may have to wait until 2009 for LED screens.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/05/21/led-screens-in-all-macbooks-by-2009/)

[VideoShooter]

Wow, this is going to be great. I love the LED on my 17 incher.

Go Mac Book!


btw... 1st! I am awesome!

So AWESOME!

[Eidorian]

I at least hope that the MacBook sees a better screen in general even if it's not LED yet.

[johnnyjibbs]

It's a no-brainer from a consumer point of view but presumably the switch happens when the price is right.

[krye]

Bummer. I was hoping for an LED display in the supposed upcoming revision.

[IEatApples]

I'm still waiting for Apple to update their Cinema Displays! :(

… would be nice with a 24" LED though! ;)

[slicecom]

Where's the iPhone content!? You mean there are NON-iPhone rumors too!? :confused:

[kornyboy]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)

I say bring it on. I really like these screens. Them seem to work very well. I believe that the LEDs are less likely to burn out as well.

[naid]

LED screens, possibly a redesign... nice. Makes you want to wait till next year to purchase one :rolleyes:

[~Shard~]

Hopefully this will pave the way for PLED technology shortly thereafter. ;)

[juanm]

Weird... IIRC, the financial chief said in a conference last year that all computers would get LEDs in 2008...

[KindredMAC]

HA! I glanced quickly at the headline and thought it said "LCD Screens in All MacBooks by 2009" and was like "THEY ALREADY ARE!!!!"......

Been a long morning I guess.....

But anyways, I agree that they should make it into the Cinema Displays ASAP.

Another thing is a new iSight.

If Apple isn't going to bring out the displays with the photocells in between the LCDs soon, they really need to bring an iSight 2.0 out. I've noticed that my built in iSight in my MacBook makes my original iSight on my PowerMac G5 look like I am looking through a fuzzy, dirty glass window at dusk.

With how small the MacBook(s) iSight camera is now, there is no reason that they can't make a small clip on housing with a USB cable that could go on top of all displays. Everyone else is doing it! And besides, I have not found a USB camera out there that is any better than my worst iSight, so go figure!

[fastbite]

My antique PowerBook 17 is so dim you need a flashlight to see the thing. I would love an LED screen -- maybe soon ;)

[SciTeach]

Great! That will about the time I will want to buy a new one to replace my current MB 2.0GHz.

Now if they can only change the graphics card.....

[Jackolicious]

It's my understanding (and I was told by Apple) that the MBA has an LED screen.

[kjs862]

What about OLED displays?

[~Shard~]

What about OLED displays?

As I said a few posts above, hopefully this will pave the way for OLED/PLED technology as well. :cool:

[bananas]

Weird... IIRC, the financial chief said in a conference last year that all computers would get LEDs in 2008...

Led screens in 2008 == Led screens by 2009

[djcj]

WHoopdy doo. How about a real upgrade. LED backlit screens should have been in the last revision.

[psychofreak]

WHoopdy doo. How about a real upgrade. LED backlit screens should have been in the last revision.

Its still quite a big upgrade, the original Macbooks already look dim with full brightness, while the MBA is astoundingly bright to my eyes.

[zorinlynx]

WHoopdy doo. How about a real upgrade. LED backlit screens should have been in the last revision.

I'd really rather them work on the technology and get it 100% reliable and right before they start using it across the entire product line.

Perhaps there are technical issues/reasons why it was easier to implement it in the 15" MBP and Air but it hasn't made it to the other lines yet.

Patience. It will come soon.

[Anaxarxes]

Apple should not only ditch CCFL because it contains mercury, but LED brightness is much more higher than CCFL.

[Jimmery]

So when does the 3rd quarter run? July/August/September is the 3rd quarter for the calendar year, but are they talking fiscal year? If so, what dates does the quarter span?

[abrooks]

It's my understanding (and I was told by Apple) that the MBA has an LED screen.

You are correct, as stated in the original article :rolleyes:

[motulist]

LED brightness is much more higher than CCFL.

LED is as bright as CCFL when it's new, not brighter, iirc (though I could be wrong). Regardless, when my Powerbook's CCFL screen was new it was initially way too bright to look at. So if LEDs are capable of going brighter than that, then it's a useless difference in this application.


p.s. I'm no grammar stickler, but uh, "much more higher?"

(edited to accurately quote the o.p.)

[Teclis]

LED is as bright as CCFL when it's new, not brighter, iirc. Though I could be wrong.


p.s. I'm no grammar stickler, but uh, "much more brighter?"


come on. give the guy a break. besides he said "much more higher..." :P

[cnote678]

If the MacBook gets an LED screen with the upcoming(hopefully soon!) redesign then I'll definitely buy it, but if there's no LED I'll wait til the MBP redesign and buy the Penryn model at a discount. Still, a MB w/ LED and multitouch would be perfect for me.

[blk88memorz]

1.Does this mean that there isnt gonna be a MB revision in Q3 2008?
2.Does this mean that there is gonna be a MB revision, but LED backlit screens will come later in 2009?
3.Or does this mean that this article is just a rumour and there are gonna be new MBs in Q3 2008 with LED blacklit screens?

Apple pls pick one of the above.

[freebooter]

I sold my MacBook because of the poor quality screen-- 0% viewing angle, unusable for photo editing.
LED or not, they better fix those screens or I'm not buying.

[lazyrighteye]

I'm still waiting for Apple to update their Cinema Displays! :(

… would be nice with a 24" LED though! ;)

What an unusual, non-iPhone/touch rumor.
So weird.
And I don't mine the heavy iPhone/touch chatter - LOVE my iPhone and find the platform incredibly interesting and important in Apple's evolution.
It's just that today's LED rumor reminds me that I can't recall the last time there was anything resembling significant rumor or news surrounding Apple's Pro line and/or associated peripherals - like Cinema Displays (daily G5 Powerbook banter aside).

Anyway, an all LED lineup seems inevitable.
Wonder if this might lead to thinner (laptop-ish) Cinema Displays?
Something with very little border/edge? Pretty much an all-screen face? Could be fun.

[Teclis]

1.Does this mean that there isnt gonna be a MB revision in the 3rd quarter?
2.Does this mean that there is gonna be a MB revision, but LED backlit screens will come later in 2009?
3.Or does this mean that this article is just a rumour and there are gonna be new MBs in the 3rd quarter with LED blacklit screens?

Apple pls pick one of the above.

Hopefully #3 :)

[khaos34]

LED is as bright as CCFL when it's new, not brighter, iirc. Though I could be wrong.
I know the specs say this, but my girlfriend, my friends, and I agree the LED screens look a lot brighter. My girlfriend and I have a Macbook, and both of us really wish we had LED after putting it next to a Macbook Air.

[DaBrain]

Bummer. I was hoping for an LED display in the supposed upcoming revision.

Yep I find this somewhat disappointing! Figured for sure their next release would be with an LED screen.

If the past is any indicator we may not see this then until the end of 2009 as stated "in 2009" is pretty general. Typically when Apple says in June as an example it usually is the end of June, so why not the end of 2009?

Anyways IM glad I just got my Mac Book so I can afford to wait this out.--))) ;)

[Teclis]

I think that Apple will probably put an LED screen on all their notebooks this summer. Is there any reason why they shouldn't? They already have gotten quite familiar with the technology with the MBA.

[netsql2]

So... only monitor from apple is that cheap glossy glare thing?

I'd pay more for a real monitor.
.V

[motulist]

I know the specs say this, but my girlfriend, my friends, and I agree the LED screens look a lot brighter. My girlfriend and I have a Macbook, and both of us really wish we had LED after putting it next to a Macbook Air.

CCFL lights grower dimmer over time. So unless you're comparing a brand new CCFL screen to an LED screen then you aren't seeing an accurate comparison of what the two were initially capable of. Analogously, gas powered cars get fewer and fewer miles per gallon as the car ages. So if you compare the MPG that you get on a 5 year old gas powered car to a brand new gas/electric hybrid of a similar make and model, then you aren't making a meaningful comparison.

Don't get me wrong, LEDs sound like a much better technology than CCFL, I'm just pointing out an important nuance that most people ignore when comparing the two.

[mogzieee]

2009? Jeeze.... why not in the next revision?? lol

[yorkshire]

I intend to buy a macbook in december, but may put back buying until january if the led screen is not in. I hope they have the led screen in by december, will make christmas that much more special waking up to a shiny new computer. But I can't see any reason why they wouldn't put them in the next revision, because that would make the "new" macbook seem even newer, something for apple to sell it on, so I hope the led screen is in.

[Teclis]

I intend to buy a macbook in december, but may put back buying until january if the led screen is not in. I hope they have the led screen in by december, will make christmas that much more special waking up to a shiny new computer. But I can't see any reason why they wouldn't put them in the next revision, because that would make the "new" macbook seem even newer, something for apple to sell it on, so I hope the led screen is in.

They (:apple:) probably have LED displays in december. The article said BY 2009, remember :rolleyes:

[JeffDM]

WHoopdy doo. How about a real upgrade. LED backlit screens should have been in the last revision.

But it is a real upgrade. Not only does it not risk aging, fading and shifting color, they can be dimmed better too.

It's a bit much to say it should have been already done. If the panels are available, there's a potential cost and maybe supply issues, and many sizes aren't available in LED backlight form.

[bruk201ib]

A little bit off topic, but does anyone have a clue about when the new MBP are coming out with the redesign? my powerbook g4 Ti (Yes you read correctly, i still have a Ti) is falling apart, but i read somewhere that the february update was a speed bump, while there was going to be a bigger redesign and new processor MBP coming out. am i dreaming and i should just buy the one that is out now, or should i wait another couple of months?

[Stately]

Unless I hear that a full revamp will be done on the Pro models, I can not get exited :cool:

[Teclis]

It's a bit much to say it should have been already done. If the panels are available, there's a potential cost and maybe supply issues, and many sizes aren't available in LED backlight form.

Isn't MB and MBA both 13"? yes the are! :) Maybe we will see LEd displays on the MB and later on MBP?

[Teclis]

A little bit off topic, but does anyone have a clue about when the new MBP are coming out with the redesign?

probably some time between July and September. I don't think this helps you a lot but, hey.....

[akm3]

Isn't MB and MBA both 13"? yes the are! :) Maybe we will see LEd displays on the MB and later on MBP?

MBP already has LED displays. The only ones that don't are the Macbooks, and the 17" MBP, unless you purchase the LED option.

They will probably ditch the LED option on MBP's, and give Macbooks LED's and bam (!!) LED's across the line.

Might as well update the ACD's to LED too, why the hell not?

[Teclis]

Then we will probably see LED displays on all apple notebooks this summer.:D

[Laco]

this is good news...

The next Macbook (maybe Macbook Pro) I will buy will be late 2010 or early 2011 or later so by then it should have these new screens and maybe even quad core processors.

I completely agree about the screens getting dim over time in Macbooks right now the screen is set at max on my year old Macbook and its not that bright at all.

[mtrctyjoe]

What does this have to do with the 3G GPS enabled iPhone? :p

[Teclis]

I dont think so... :rolleyes:

[guzhogi]

Funny, I thought MBs already had LED screens. Meh. Whatever. Hopefully, LED screens will be standard on all laptops & the ACDs. Plus, I hope the ACDs get built-in iSights & better resolution in the 20" and 23". The 17" MBP already has the option of having the same resolution as the 20" display! Maybe HDMI & HDCP too so we can watch HD movies.

[swingerofbirch]

When I got my MacBook about 6 months ago I thought the screen was great, but now I think it's dimmer and more yellowish. At certain angles, you can't even see the blue/white lines in Finder or iTunes lists (it just appears all white).

I really didn't notice the problem until I got an HP 20" LCD for my Mac mini--and for only being $200, it's amazing (at least to me, I probably am not a connoisseur of LCDs). But, having it side by side with my MacBook, the HP LCD is super bright and has a cleaner white look to it.

[QAPete]

I love the LED backlighting on my 17" MBP. It's just another feature of the computer that simply works as advertised. Exactly as advertised. Highly recommended over the non-LED laptops we use at work.

[Shasterball]

1.Does this mean that there isnt gonna be a MB revision in Q3 2008?
2.Does this mean that there is gonna be a MB revision, but LED backlit screens will come later in 2009?
3.Or does this mean that this article is just a rumour and there are gonna be new MBs in Q3 2008 with LED blacklit screens?

Apple pls pick one of the above.

I'm sure Apple has already picked. :)

[Bubba Satori]

I'm still waiting for Apple to update their Cinema Displays! :(

ACD update with the headless Mac. 2014

[bigwig]

Plus, I hope the ACDs get built-in iSights & better resolution in the 20" and 23".
They won't put better resolution on the 23". It already has the max resolution that a Mini or Macbook can drive. In the unlikely event that they put graphics hardware in those machines that can drive a 30" ACD then a higher-resolution 23" might make sense.
Maybe HDMI & HDCP too so we can watch HD movies.
I'd rather go straight to DisplayPort and leapfrog over HDMI.

[JeffDM]

Funny, I thought MBs already had LED screens. Meh. Whatever. Hopefully, LED screens will be standard on all laptops & the ACDs. Plus, I hope the ACDs get built-in iSights & better resolution in the 20" and 23". The 17" MBP already has the option of having the same resolution as the 20" display! Maybe HDMI & HDCP too so we can watch HD movies.

Actually, the 17" base model is the same as the 20" in number of pixels, the upgrade is the same as the 23".

I'm not aware of any higher resolution (in ppi) desktop displays. Desktop displays are all about 100ppi for generally good reasons. Notebooks are denser for portability, and I think also the fact that notebook screens are usually closer to the user too. The ACDs use a better quality screen, not only are the backlights more even, ACDs use 8 bit panels vs a dithered 6 bit panel that describe most notebook displays.

I'd rather go straight to DisplayPort and leapfrog over HDMI.

HDMI is for entertainment systems, DisplayPort is for computer displays. I'd actually like to have a screen that does both.

[EagerDragon]

As I stated several times Feb / March next year will be the most exciting update to the laptop lines ever. Most things will change.

Buy when you need the system....... but if you can wait ..... boy you are going to drool in Feb/March update.

Like watching a sunset from a different planet.

[EagerDragon]

Funny, I thought MBs already had LED screens. Meh. Whatever. Hopefully, LED screens will be standard on all laptops & the ACDs. Plus, I hope the ACDs get built-in iSights & better resolution in the 20" and 23". The 17" MBP already has the option of having the same resolution as the 20" display! Maybe HDMI & HDCP too so we can watch HD movies.

The screens are LCD panels, but the light that shines thru the screen is not. The LED lighting is much brighter than the current ccf and more contrasty.

MB does not have LED lighting, but MBP 15" and AIR do, and is also available for MBP 17" for $100 BTO.

Not sure when we will see the 23 and 30 Inch monitors going with LED. According to Apple is a matter of cost for larger panels. However the iMac 24 has it and the 23 inch monitor does not. What's up with that?

IMac screen is probably a cheaper panel than Apple would use for their professional 23 inch monitor, so they are probably waiting for cheaper LCD screens and cheaper LED lighting. -- Just a guess.

[khaos34]

CCFL lights grower dimmer over time. So unless you're comparing a brand new CCFL screen to an LED screen then you aren't seeing an accurate comparison of what the two were initially capable of. Analogously, gas powered cars get fewer and fewer miles per gallon as the car ages. So if you compare the MPG that you get on a 5 year old gas powered car to a brand new gas/electric hybrid of a similar make and model, then you aren't making a meaningful comparison.

Don't get me wrong, LEDs sound like a much better technology than CCFL, I'm just pointing out an important nuance that most people ignore when comparing the two.
Yes, I know what you mean - and I knew I should've mentioned that when I posted :D My girlfriend's macbook was less than a month old - and yes, there was a bit of time given to warm up.
Even if my own subjectivity is giving weight to the brightness factor, it's still enough for me to be convinced.

[SFRtje]

The screens are LED panels, but the light that shines thru the screen is not. The LED lighting is much brighter than the current ccf and more contrasty.

MB does not have LED lighting, but MBP 15" and AIR do, and is also available for MBP 17" for $100 BTO.

Not sure when we will see the 23 and 30 Inch monitors going with LED. According to Apple is a matter of cost for larger panels. However the iMac 24 has it and the 23 inch monitor does not. What's up with that?

IMac screen is probably a cheaper panel than Apple would use for the professional 23 inch monitor, so they are probably waiting for cheaper screens and cheaper LED lighting. -- Just a guess.

But this LED lighting thingy is better right? Why do you need to pay a 100 dollar more to have that new shiny thing on your 17" MBP, while the 15" has it as a standard? It sounds strange to me, because I assumed the 17" MBP is the top of the line.. So with all the extras including this LED lighting, and if you want that on your 15" you should pay a hundred dollars more.. But that's not the case..?

[137489]

As I stated several times Feb / March next year will be the most exciting update to the laptop lines ever. Most things will change.

Buy when you need the system....... but if you can wait ..... boy you are going to drool in Feb/March update.


LOL - that was the same response you gave me when I was considering buyuing my macbook last month..... Anyway, I bought mine and could not be happier. as a switcher from Windows/PC, I found that I could dump 1/2 my software. My work is even looking at macs as we do everything over the internet. I opted to be one of the first "real user" testers for our support division. I hope they let me.....

As for the LED thing. I would have to agree with some people, there have been so many rumors for a long time - I thought they were LED by now. Anyway, anything to help battery life would be nice. The toshiba I used to own (which I gave to my pastor, he needed a cheap laptop that ran XP) was 7 years old and ran 5 hrs on a battery. My Dell which is 2 yrs old runs about 2 hrs on a battery. My Macbook gives me about 2/2 to 3 hrs on a battery.

My macbook is only going on 2 months old, so I have not seen some of the screen issues (yellow, dimming, flicker, colorwash) that some of you all have reported. Since I bought the applecare warrenty, if it does that, I will have it replaced.

[morespce54]

Bummer. I was hoping for an LED display in the supposed upcoming revision.

Yes. me too :(
I knew the chances were small but still, I was hopping...
Maybe MB will get it as a BTO? I just can't stop dreaming...

[JeffDM]

But this LED lighting thingy is better right? Why do you need to pay a 100 dollar more to have that new shiny thing on your 17" MBP, while the 15" has it as a standard? It sounds strange to me, because I assumed the 17" MBP is the top of the line.. So with all the extras including this LED lighting, and if you want that on your 15" you should pay a hundred dollars more.. But that's not the case..?

It's not strange, the $100 option buys you a higher resolution screen. I think the original high res upgrade was a fluorescent backlight, now the option includes backlighting. LED is kind of a bonus. I think it might have to do with what size & resolution screens are available in LED backlight form.

[EagerDragon]

But this LED lighting thingy is better right? Why do you need to pay a 100 dollar more to have that new shiny thing on your 17" MBP, while the 15" has it as a standard? It sounds strange to me, because I assumed the 17" MBP is the top of the line.. So with all the extras including this LED lighting, and if you want that on your 15" you should pay a hundred dollars more.. But that's not the case..?

Why? --- Because Apple decided to charge 100 more (smartass answer, LOL).
But likely because as the panel gets bigger, the number of defects increases, as such it is more rare to produce a perfect 17 inch panel than it is to produce a perfect 15 inch panel. If the number of perfect panels is lower, then the cost to manufacture them is higher and as such Apple pays more.

Apple does not like to raise the price of their products so they offer it as BTO. When it gets a little cheaper, Apple will make it standard. Probably early 2009.

Also the screen that you get with the BTO is more dense (more pixels) so it cost more. So the 100 buy you a combination of better screen and better lighting.

[SFRtje]

It's not strange, it's a higher resolution screen.

Ah oke, if that's the reason, w/e :p. Im getting a 15" soon, so no problems here:rolleyes:

[SFRtje]

Why? --- Because Apple decided to charge 100 more (smartass answer, LOL).
But likely because as the panel gets bigger, the number of defects increases, as such it is more rare to produce a perfect 17 inch panel than it is to produce a perfect 15 inch panel. If the number of perfect panels is lower, then the cost to manufacture them is higher and as such Apple pays more.

Apple does not like to raise the price of their products so they offer it as BTO. When it gets a little cheaper, Apple will make it standard. Probably early 2009.

Yeah I'm very skeptic sometimes ;). But that makes sense :).

[cstromme]

I hate to be a stickler, but this just annoys me to no end. :p

It's not a LED screen. It's an LCD screen with LED backlight.

I know I know. I just couldn't help myself here.

[CmdrLaForge]

Hopefully this will pave the way for PLED technology shortly thereafter. ;)

Whats that ?

Anyway - I would hope for LED in the cinema displays. Would like to get a 30" one but I will definitly wait for the LED background because I think such a display lasts very very long, like 20 years.

[kjs862]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)

I don't understand why its taking Apple this amount of time to rollout LED displays. Doesn't Sony have OLED display out already - by the time Apple gets to OLED Sony may be on the next generation tech.

[MacFly123]

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/05/21/all_apple_macbooks_to_use_led_backlighting_by_2009.html

QUOTE: "Jobs in the same letter added that Apple also has a plan to completely eliminate the use of arsenic in all of its displays by the end of 2008."

So does this mean that hell will officially freeze over and the FREAKING Cinema Displays will get an update at least by the end of this year??? PLEASE for crying out loud.

Seriously, is it so much to ask for a built in iSight, remote sensor, new panels (don't even have to be LED yet), and a little slimming??? I mean they discontinued the external iSight like what, over a year ago with nothing to replace it since. Come on Apple!!! :mad:

[Teclis]

MacFly123 "Jobs in the same letter added that Apple also has a plan to completely eliminate the use of arsenic in all of its displays by the end of 2008."

So does this mean that hell will officially freeze over and the FREAKING Cinema Displays will get an update at least by the end of this year???

Seriously, is it so much to ask for a built in iSight, remote sensor, new panels (don't even have to be LED yet), and a little slimming??? I mean they discontinued the external iSight like what, over a year ago with nothing to replace it since. Come on Apple!!! :mad:
__________________________________

-Yes, this means that we will se upgraded ACD this year.

:confused:But seriously man, LED displays is a MUST if I am even going to consider buying a new laptop. I agree on the slimming part, though:D

[lilbrwnjumpsuit]

wow. who ever wrote this article has no clue what they're talking about. from apple:


"15-inch MacBook Pro

15.4-inch (diagonal) antiglare widescreen TFT LED backlit display with support for millions of colors; optional glossy widescreen display"

"Optional 17-inch (diagonal) antiglare TFT widescreen LED backlit display with support for millions of colors; optional glossy widescreen display"

[twoodcc]

might be a long wait, but glad they are all going to LED

[happydude]

I'm still waiting for Apple to update their Cinema Displays! :(

… would be nice with a 24" LED though! ;)

and a freaking built in isight camera!!

[!¡ V ¡!]

LED backlit displays might be the future, however at present I am happy with my Cathode Backlit display as I still find it too bright even on the min setting for both 24" and 17" Hi-Res. :o

[ibjoshua]

As I said a few posts above, hopefully this will pave the way for OLED/PLED technology as well. :cool:

Hear hear.

Now, am I the only one who gets frustrated by the use of the term "LED screens" when they should be referred to as "LED backlit screens" or "LED backlights" for short.

Arn should know better than to confuse the terms like that. He only once says "LED backlit screens" in the original post. It would have been so simple to have titled the post "LED Backlights in All Macbooks by 2009".

I know we can't stop commenters saying LED screens when they mean LCD screens with LED backlights but at least front page posts shouldn't assist in perpetuating the misconception.

I hate to sound like a picky old man, as Arn does such a great job usually, but it's such a small thing and it would make the whole (ongoing LED/OLED) story so much simpler and more accurate.

ibjoshua

[ibjoshua]

On a tangent, imagine a MacBook case made out of this stuff (http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1657/) mentioned on ecogeek.org. The molecular soup mixture would have organic light-emitting diode (OLED) and solar cell building blocs that can be spread or even sprayed like paint in an ultra-thin layer that is only 100 nm thick. By combining both technologies, it may be possible to have displays on the market that don't even have to be plugged in but charged using solar panels. The companies even say it could be sprayed onto the back of cell phones to charge up the device.
Charge your machine and at the same time check your iCal (or whatever) without plugging it in or opening it.
Nice.

ibjoshua

[JeffDM]

As I said a few posts above, hopefully this will pave the way for OLED/PLED technology as well. :cool:

More alphabet soup!

[kresh]

I'm still waiting for Apple to update their Cinema Displays! :(

… would be nice with a 24" LED though! ;)

I have a nasty suspicion that Apple will exit the standalone display business and instead recommend a few preferred partners. Since they only manufacture two computers** that require a standalone display, and one of which is rumored to be discontinued shortly, I hope they don't decide that R&D dollars would be better invested elsewhere.

Surely if it was a lucrative segment of their business they would have been updating their offerings regularly.


** I have not included Xserve since they do not require high end displays, or really displays at all.

[MacFly123]

MacFly123 "Jobs in the same letter added that Apple also has a plan to completely eliminate the use of arsenic in all of its displays by the end of 2008."

So does this mean that hell will officially freeze over and the FREAKING Cinema Displays will get an update at least by the end of this year???

Seriously, is it so much to ask for a built in iSight, remote sensor, new panels (don't even have to be LED yet), and a little slimming??? I mean they discontinued the external iSight like what, over a year ago with nothing to replace it since. Come on Apple!!! :mad:
__________________________________

-Yes, this means that we will se upgraded ACD this year.

:confused:But seriously man, LED displays is a MUST if I am even going to consider buying a new laptop. I agree on the slimming part, though:D

I was referring to the Cinema Displays and the LED. Is it even feasible cost wise to think they would upgrade LCDs that big to LED this time around??? :confused:

[JeffDM]

I have a nasty suspicion that Apple will exit the standalone display business and instead recommend a few preferred partners. Since they only manufacture two computers** that require a standalone display, and one of which is rumored to be discontinued shortly, I hope they don't decide that R&D dollars would be better invested elsewhere.

Surely if it was a lucrative segment of their business they would have been updating their offerings regularly.

** I have not included Xserve since they do not require high end displays, or really displays at all.

They do have dual head being a selling point for their notebooks though, even dual link with their MacBook Pro.

[aethelbert]

What ever happened to all LED screens in their products by the end of 2008?

[Quillz]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)

I don't understand why its taking Apple this amount of time to rollout LED displays. Doesn't Sony have OLED display out already - by the time Apple gets to OLED Sony may be on the next generation tech.
Because Apple holds a monopoly on Apple hardware, that's why. Since they are the only ones who will ever build Mac hardware, they can take their sweet time with new and improved features, like LED displays. Of course, also consider that while the MacBook doesn't have LED displays, both the Air and Pro do. Right now, it's just another incentive to upgrade to an Air or Pro.

[Quillz]

What ever happened to all LED screens in their products by the end of 2008?
Remember when Leopard was going to be released in spring 2007, then June and finally October? Or when Vista was going to be released in 2003, then 2005 and then finally 2007? Same thing here. Chances are, they got delayed by unforeseen issues, probably hardware related, and that's why it's taking longer than expected.

Remember in 2004 when Steve said we'd have 3 GHz PowerPC chips?

[urbanskywalker]

The implication of "by 2009" suggests that the next MacBook update will not have an LED backlight.

[JeffDM]

What ever happened to all LED screens in their products by the end of 2008?

It doesn't look like the panels are available. If Apple can't get the supplies, then Apple can't switch to them completely.

Because Apple holds a monopoly on Apple hardware, that's why. Since they are the only ones who will ever build Mac hardware, they can take their sweet time with new and improved features, like LED displays. Of course, also consider that while the MacBook doesn't have LED displays, both the Air and Pro do. Right now, it's just another incentive to upgrade to an Air or Pro.

That's also assuming there are enough supplies of the LED screens to satisfy Apple's volumes. Air and Pro are probably lower volume computers. When the 13" LED backlit panels are available to the tune of maybe half a million a month, then Apple can switch the MacBooks.

[onicon]

[...] Not sure when we will see the 23 and 30 Inch monitors going with LED. According to Apple is a matter of cost for larger panels. However the iMac 24 has it and the 23 inch monitor does not. What's up with that?

IMac screen is probably a cheaper panel than Apple would use for their professional 23 inch monitor, so they are probably waiting for cheaper LCD screens and cheaper LED lighting. -- Just a guess.

no imac, current or past, has or had a led backlit display. and as prices for led backlit displays in 24" size currently are equal to the price of a whole imac, not accounting for the prices of 30" led backlight, i don't see apple using them in the very near future. :(

[Bleestha]

I would love to see the LED technology on the Mac Books, it looks great on the MBPs and MBAs. :) but it is to bad that they won't come out till next year. I expected them to come in the next update:(

[kjs862]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)

I don't understand why its taking Apple this amount of time to rollout LED displays. Doesn't Sony have OLED display out already - by the time Apple gets to OLED Sony may be on the next generation tech.

Because Apple holds a monopoly on Apple hardware, that's why. Since they are the only ones who will ever build Mac hardware, they can take their sweet time with new and improved features, like LED displays. Of course, also consider that while the MacBook doesn't have LED displays, both the Air and Pro do. Right now, it's just another incentive to upgrade to an Air or Pro.

I definitely understand where you are coming from, but after reading this section of Apple's mission statement...

"Today, Apple continues to lead the industry in innovation with its award-winning computers"

... it just make me feel uneasy about the entire situation. Companies already have OLED displays out, and here we are talking about LED displays. Get with the program Apple!

[kockgunner]

I definitely understand where you are coming from, but after reading this section of Apple's mission statement...

"Today, Apple continues to lead the industry in innovation with its award-winning computers"

... it just make me feel uneasy about the entire situation. Companies already have OLED displays out, and here we are talking about LED displays. Get with the program Apple!

I think Apple is going at a steady pace. LED backlit displays are still not widely used by laptop manufacturers. There is a computer at DELL that had a BTO option unlike the them being standard on 15" MBPs. OLED displays are not economical to put in laptops either. The biggest OLED display I've seen was at a Sony store and cost about as much as a Macbook Air and it was only an 11 incher. I agree how Apple's laptops aren't as competitive as other manufacturers as before. Maybe technology is coming to a standstill and we're in for another MHz war (except this time with GHz)? I think part of the reason Apple computer's don't have as much hardware as other companies' laptops is also because of their aesthetic philosophy. We wouldn't want fingerprint readers and media card slots marring our Macbook Pros' design would we?

[CWallace]

But this LED lighting thingy is better right? Why do you need to pay a 100 dollar more to have that new shiny thing on your 17" MBP, while the 15" has it as a standard? It sounds strange to me, because I assumed the 17" MBP is the top of the line.. So with all the extras including this LED lighting, and if you want that on your 15" you should pay a hundred dollars more.. But that's not the case..?

The cost is driven in part by volume. 15.4" is a popular laptop LCD panel size so chances are the majority of LED-backlit panel production is in this category, which drives down the cost. There are likely less 17" panels being made (especially at 1920x1200) so they cost more to buy, hence Apple charges a $100 more to help defray the extra cost.


I was referring to the Cinema Displays and the LED. Is it even feasible cost wise to think they would upgrade LCDs that big to LED this time around??? :confused:

The only LED-backlit monitors I have seen in 20", 24" and 30" sizes are Samsung's latest and their prices make ACDs look down right cheap.

[AidenShaw]

We wouldn't want fingerprint readers and media card slots marring our Macbook Pros' design would we?

Certainly not. We can't let function get in the way of form...

[goosnarrggh]

wow. who ever wrote this article has no clue what they're talking about. from apple:


"15-inch MacBook Pro

15.4-inch (diagonal) antiglare widescreen TFT LED backlit display with support for millions of colors; optional glossy widescreen display"

"Optional 17-inch (diagonal) antiglare TFT widescreen LED backlit display with support for millions of colors; optional glossy widescreen display"
I don't think I understand your criticism.

Of course, the mention of "TFT" implicitly means that the display itself is an LCD panel. It happens to use an LED light source as a backlight.

Regardless of what Apple is stating, the displays would be more correctly correctly described as,
"15.4-inch (diagonal) antiglare widescreen TFT LCD using LED backlight, with support for millions of colors; optional glossy widescreen display"

_________
By the way, high intesity LEDs do decay in brightness over time. However they may not decay as quickly as a CCFL would.

Their color also degrades over time too. The semiconductor inside any LED can only emit light in a very narrow band of wavelengths; by definition a single wavelength of light by itself can never be white. In a "white" LED, the light emitted from the electronics is typically a bluish color, and this blue light strikes a phosphorous coating on the inner wall of the LED's surface - when excited, this phosphorous coating emits a range of other wavelengths approximating white light. The phosphorous coating degrades over time, and those extra wavelengths lose their intensity, causing the white light to start looking increasingly bluish.

It's possible, though, that Apple has secured a supply of white LEDs in which these decays are much slower than they have been in previous generations.

[deputylove8]

Macbook + LED displays = Sexyness

:D:D:D:D:D

[AidenShaw]

...and this blue light strikes a phosphorous coating...

I assume that you mean phosphorescent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorescent), not phosphorus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorus) ...

[JeffDM]

By the way, high intesity LEDs do decay in brightness over time. However they may not decay as quickly as a CCFL would.

Their color also degrades over time too. The semiconductor inside any LED can only emit light in a very narrow band of wavelengths; by definition a single wavelength of light by itself can never be white. In a "white" LED, the light emitted from the electronics is typically a bluish color, and this blue light strikes a phosphorous coating on the inner wall of the LED's surface - when excited, this phosphorous coating emits a range of other wavelengths approximating white light. The phosphorous coating degrades over time, and those extra wavelengths lose their intensity, causing the white light to start looking increasingly bluish.

It's possible, though, that Apple has secured a supply of white LEDs in which these decays are much slower than they have been in previous generations.

I forgot about that. One way to make phosphors last a long time is to not overdrive them. So double the LEDs at half the light intensity might make it last more than twice as long. And Apple's ambient light sensor more or less adjusts the light to what you need, so hopefully it's not any brighter than it needs to be.

[drrich2]

Since some Macbook Pro's have LED-backlit displays, how are they holding up over time compared to conventional displays?

Until an unfortunate dog-related accident rendered the display on my old 15"1.5 GHz G4 Aluminum Powerbook non-functional (can still run using an external monitor; would cost too much to get the thing accessed to see if repairable & do it, compared to what it'd be worth), we were quite happy with it at my house.

Is there any reason to think a modern MacBook display would be WORSE than that old Powerbook display?

Are MacBook displays really that bad, or is the LCD-backlit screen just such eye candy peoples' standards have changed?

Also, the brighter, high-contrast quality that people seem to love about the LCD-backlit screens sounds like the very quality so hated by the mat screen lovers who complain about some of Apple's notebooks only offering a glossy option.

Can the LCD-backlits do mat well?

Richard.

[MacFly123]

The only LED-backlit monitors I have seen in 20", 24" and 30" sizes are Samsung's latest and their prices make ACDs look down right cheap.

That's what I thought, so for this refresh I would be fine with a built in iSight and built in remote sensor with a little slimming and maybe some slight exterior changes. Also drop the prices just a bit at least and bump the 23" up to 24" obviously. That is all I am asking for! Seriously what is Apple's problem with this??? Why would they possibly take this long to update them?

[mdriftmeyer]

I get a chuckle how my undergrad work on Heat Transfer using LEDs back in 1992 for data acquisition points are just now finally, with advances, getting to be mainstream in laptops?

Classic. Only 17 years later.

[digitalbiker]

Since some Macbook Pro's have LED-backlit displays, how are they holding up over time compared to conventional displays?

Until an unfortunate dog-related accident rendered the display on my old 15"1.5 GHz G4 Aluminum Powerbook non-functional (can still run using an external monitor; would cost too much to get the thing accessed to see if repairable & do it, compared to what it'd be worth), we were quite happy with it at my house.

Is there any reason to think a modern MacBook display would be WORSE than that old Powerbook display?

Are MacBook displays really that bad, or is the LCD-backlit screen just such eye candy peoples' standards have changed?

Also, the brighter, high-contrast quality that people seem to love about the LCD-backlit screens sounds like the very quality so hated by the mat screen lovers who complain about some of Apple's notebooks only offering a glossy option.

Can the LCD-backlits do mat well?

Richard.

The current Macbook displays are the same as your G4 Powerbook only slightly smaller 13" vs. 15.4'. The brightness, contrast, color, etc is approximately the same, as it is using the same technology.

The new LED backlit LCD displays are brighter, have better contrast, and use much less power. However they are more costly.

Matte screens and glossy screens have nothing to do with the backlighting. Basically matte and glossy refer to the finish of the screen.

A glossy finish appears to produce a clearer, more color saturated, and better contrast image but it can be plagued with glare and difficult to use under certain lighting conditions.

A matte screen is a gaussian blurred finish that scatters reflected light to reduce glare. However the finish also slightly blurs the direct image causing some to perceive the image as dimmer, less color saturated, and of less contrast.

[justperry]

Weird... IIRC, the financial chief said in a conference last year that all computers would get LEDs in 2008...

Thats what I said before in another topic before,but wasn't it Steve himself which actually said that last year at WWDC?
I remember him saying:
All displays will be LED backlight in 2008!!
It would be a bummer for me since I am waiting for the iMac to be updated with it but they just got updated.
Do we have to wait 9 months again for the next update?:mad:
Cheers

[digitalbiker]

In a "white" LED, the light emitted from the electronics is typically a bluish color, and this blue light strikes a phosphorous coating on the inner wall of the LED's surface - when excited, this phosphorous coating emits a range of other wavelengths approximating white light.

Where did you get this information? LED's are typically silicon or other materials that are impregnated with impurities to cause a p-n junction. When current is passed through the semi-conductor it causes photons to be released that are in wavelengths of light indicative of the particular material that is used.

Listed below are some of the various substrate used and the resulting color.

Aluminium gallium arsenide (AlGaAs) — red and infrared
Aluminium gallium phosphide (AlGaP) — green
Gallium nitride (GaN) — green and blue also white (if it has an AlGaN Quantum Barrier)
Silicon carbide (SiC) as substrate — blue
Sapphire (Al2O3) as substrate — blue
Zinc selenide (ZnSe) — blue
Diamond (C) — ultraviolet

There is no inner wall phosphorus coating.

[onicon]

http://www.electronicsweekly.com/Articles/2008/04/17/41947/led-technology-white-leds.htm

would be one source.

[samkupo]

the revision probably wont have an lcd?

I think this news is kinda good then im not waiting till 2009 to order it just for the sake of a screen thats bright soon as you turn it on.

I got the ok to sell my old one today so I think I'm just going to order a blackbook? sure the revision might have faster processors. but the current one will more then do me as im surviving now on 1.7ghz really old i dont even know what it is.

talking to myself anyway, I think tonight I might just order it I cant wait anymore!

[samkupo]

the revision probably wont have an lcd?

I think this news is kinda good then im not waiting till 2009 to order it just for the sake of a screen thats bright soon as you turn it on.

I got the ok to sell my old one today so I think I'm just going to order a blackbook? sure the revision might have faster processors. but the current one will more then do me as im surviving now on 1.7ghz really old i dont even know what it is.

talking to myself anyway, I think tonight I might just order it I cant wait anymore!

well thinking about it, I've got a question,

what would you suggest buying between the blackbook or the standard macbook pro?

its like a £250 difference in price. I just wondered what the perks would be?

[goosnarrggh]

Where did you get this information? LED's are typically silicon or other materials that are impregnated with impurities to cause a p-n junction. When current is passed through the semi-conductor it causes photons to be released that are in wavelengths of light indicative of the particular material that is used.

Listed below are some of the various substrate used and the resulting color.

Aluminium gallium arsenide (AlGaAs) — red and infrared
Aluminium gallium phosphide (AlGaP) — green
Gallium nitride (GaN) — green and blue also white (if it has an AlGaN Quantum Barrier)
Silicon carbide (SiC) as substrate — blue
Sapphire (Al2O3) as substrate — blue
Zinc selenide (ZnSe) — blue
Diamond (C) — ultraviolet

There is no inner wall phosphorus coating.

My Electircal Materials professor (BEEng '04). Sorry, it must have been out-of-date informaiton, or else he was misinformed. It's not exactly my area of concentration.

[CWallace]

That's what I thought, so for this refresh I would be fine with a built in iSight and built in remote sensor with a little slimming and maybe some slight exterior changes. Also drop the prices just a bit at least and bump the 23" up to 24" obviously. That is all I am asking for! Seriously what is Apple's problem with this??? Why would they possibly take this long to update them?

I expect Apple likely have shed-loads of these units in stock that they need to whittle down, so with no compelling reason to update them as it applies to the Macintosh platform at this time, they might as well keep pushing them out and recovering the sunk costs of buying them.

Once they are ready to support Blu-Ray and need HDCP support (and likely HDMI support on the portables and the Mini), then we will likely see a serious "fire sale" on the remaining ACD stock as they prepare to launch the new models.

[Teclis]

the revision probably wont have an lcd?

I think this news is kinda good then im not waiting till 2009 to order it just for the sake of a screen thats bright soon as you turn it on.

The screen also have a longer lifespand. if you look at a year old macbook and tghe current one, you will easily see that the older screen's brightness have radicaly faded.

[digitalbiker]

http://www.electronicsweekly.com/Articles/2008/04/17/41947/led-technology-white-leds.htm

would be one source.

Yes, but in this case the phosphorous material is used to alter the color of the light by absorbing the yellow band. It is not actually used to emit white light by being struck by electrons as in a cathode ray tube. It is being used more as a filter than an emitter.

[SpinThis!]

All displays will be LED backlight in 2008!!
No. What you remember and what was actually said are 2 different things. Jobs generally doesn't promise anything verbally that's not confirmed on the web. From A Greener Apple (http://www.apple.com/hotnews/agreenerapple):
Apple plans to reduce and eventually eliminate the use of mercury by transitioning to LED backlighting for all displays when technically and economically feasible.


It would be a bummer for me since I am waiting for the iMac to be updated with it but they just got updated.
They won't be updated until Macworld at the earliest. If you need one, buy it.

[goosnarrggh]

As others have pointed out, I was meaning to say phosphorescent instead of phosphorous.

And also, it appears that my information was indeed out of date:
http://www.newscientist.com/blog/invention/2007/08/simpler-white-leds.html

[goosnarrggh]

Yes, but in this case the phosphorous material is used to alter the color of the light by absorbing the yellow band.
That appears to be in direct contradiction with the text in the article you're responding to.

It stated that, rather than filtering out some of the yellow band, it was actually absorbing some of the light from the blue band to excite the phosphor, which in turn injects extra yellow-band light.

The 'white' of white LEDs comes from the narrow-band blue naturally emitted by GaN LEDs, plus a broad spectrum yellow generated by a phosphor coating on the die which absorbs a proportion of the blue and converts it to yellow.

As I stated above, it is very possible that this information, too, is now out of date.

[MacFly123]

I expect Apple likely have shed-loads of these units in stock that they need to whittle down, so with no compelling reason to update them as it applies to the Macintosh platform at this time, they might as well keep pushing them out and recovering the sunk costs of buying them.

Once they are ready to support Blu-Ray and need HDCP support (and likely HDMI support on the portables and the Mini), then we will likely see a serious "fire sale" on the remaining ACD stock as they prepare to launch the new models.

I hadn't thought about the whole Blu-Ray aspect :( But they have to be at least revised by the end of this year according to the statement i referenced earlier about completely getting rid of the chemicals in all the displays by 2008. They better live up to that because this is beyond ridiculous! :mad:

[FunkyELF]

Sorry,

I won't be convinced that apple is green until they make iMacs that can be used as an external monitor.

Today you buy an iMac....3 years from now you buy a new Power Mac...you shouldn't need to buy a new display.

Until Apple stops making throwaway products like iMacs or iPods / iPhones with irreplaceable batteries they're NOT GREEN. By irreplaceable I mean by the end user themselves without voiding warranty, or by the manufacturer without charging an insane amount of $$$.

I've done this rant before, look at my other postings.

Let me just end this one in saying that all of the stuff above is what makes apple look horrible as a customer but what makes them look great as an investor. Keep throwing them away and buying new ones and my stock in AAPL will continue to go up.

[madmax_2069]

i wonder why anyone would mark this as being negitive. some of these people that mark as negitive need to think twice before they do, to me this seems like a GOOD thing and not bad or negitive in any way shape or form even IF its going to be sometime in 2009 before it happens.

They are going to update the LCD backlight to LED and i am going to mark this as negitive , DUH. positive all the way, only a retard would mark this as being negitive. just cause they cant have it NOW dont mean its a bad thing. if Apple was to just throw out the hardware to customers then Apple would be no better then most of the PC makers out there.

[SpinThis!]

I've done this rant before, look at my other postings.
I tend to agree with you but you should write to Apple/Jobs about this directly instead of complaining on a forum where Apple probably won't hear you. (Before you yahoos chime in and claim Apple reads these boards, even if that's true, they don't read every post in every thread written by every person.)

[liberty4all]

What about LED Cinema Displays?!

[CWallace]

What about LED Cinema Displays?!

Definitely, but the panel prices might be too high to release now, which is why Apple has yet to update the line.

[AidenShaw]

What about LED Cinema Displays?!

New LED Cinema displays (20" and 24") will be announced along with the new "Mac" mini-tower at MacWorld Paris in September.

The 30" won't be updated until MWSF'09 in January - the 30" panels won't hit the right price point before then.

(ps: waiting to order a 55" LED-backlit LCD this fall...)

[greekpaz22]

they really need to step up the macbook's to led backgrounds...but then again, they need to do a bunch to upgrade the mbp to justify the price difference at that point..

[drsmithy]

They do have dual head being a selling point for their notebooks though, even dual link with their MacBook Pro.

That reminds me of the only other thing on my MacBook Pro wishlist other than a docking station - dual DVI outputs (so I can connect two external screens).

Hey, Apple, anyone listening ?

[Alx9876]

I decided to wait for these to come out. I can't keep buying over and over again.

I need to do this once. It will kill me to have a new Macbook with LED screen and aluminum casing come out after buying the current one.

I have no choice but to wait. It's frustrating but I only want to do this once.

[manutdfan]

but when are the new macbooks coming out!?? I need one for college!

[onicon]

If you need a MacBook, buy it. If you like to wait for the next great improvement in computers, you'll be waiting until the next coming of Jesus. :p

As for the Macworld in Paris, Apple won't be there. So don't hope for anything new then.

[Shasterball]

I find it funny that "same brightness and color range as previous screens" is an advantage. I.e., the advantage is that it is the same and not worse? Haha... I think, by definition, that is not an advantage -- it just is...

[Michael CM1]

I find it funny that "same brightness and color range as previous screens" is an advantage. I.e., the advantage is that it is the same and not worse? Haha... I think, by definition, that is not an advantage -- it just is...

LED uses less power than the present backlighting, which means longer battery life. Think of it as a smaller car engine that gets the same horsepower. You get better fuel efficiency.

[idyll]

The MacBook Air does not have a LED screen does it? For some reason I thought it was a lot better quality than the one found in the MacBooks..

[crobbins]

The MacBook Air does not have a LED screen does it? For some reason I thought it was a lot better quality than the one found in the MacBooks..

The MacBook Air does have an LED..it's the MacBooks that do not. The MacBook Pros and MacBook Airs both have them.