AT&T to Complete 3G Rollout by June

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

AT&T announced (http://sev.prnewswire.com/computer-electronics/20080521/AQW51721052008-1.html) today that they will complete their deployment of High Speed Uplink Packet Access (HSUPA) technology in the six remaining markets across AT&T's entire 3G (third-generation) wireless broadband network.

This will complement its deployment of its HSDPA network, making AT&T the only U.S. carrier to have fully deployed HSPA technology on its 3G network. AT&T's 3G network is available in more than 275 markets and will expand to nearly 350 markets by year's end.With the new addition of HSUPA technology, AT&T 3G users can enjoy uplink speeds between 500 and 800 Kbps. The technology is available in all but the few remaining AT&T 3G markets and will be included in all future deployments. The new upload speeds complement AT&T's 3G download capabilities, which currently offer up to 1.4 Mbps across all markets for customers who have capable devices, such as AT&T's LaptopConnect wireless modems.The timing of the rollout conveniently coincides with the rumored Apple iPhone launch, though fast upload speeds, which is the technology described in this press release is less critical for the current version of the iPhone. In the future, as applications are deployed on the iPhone, uploading larger files, such as video, from the iPhone could become more common. Regardless, the "completion" of their 3G network in time for a June iPhone rollout remains interesting.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/05/21/atandt-to-complete-3g-rollout-by-june/)

[RidleyGriff]

Hoping that this is evidence pointing to the inclusion of Video Chat in iPhone 2.0....

but knowing I'm setting myself to be disappointed.

[Peace]

This will cost a premium. I'd bet an iPhone on it.

[D4F]

It's like a cat & mouse game.
I hope that 3G will be working once new iPhone is out.

[myod-rules]

How will this compare to DSL or Cable? Should I dump my crappy Verizon DSL and just plug a USB 3G modem into my iMac for my network's internet access?

[arn]

How will this compare to DSL or Cable? Should I dump my crappy Verizon DSL and just plug a USB 3G modem into my iMac for my network's internet access?

800 Kbps up (100K/s up)
1.4 Mbps down (175K/s down)

Not as good as Cable, probably comparable or better than DSL.

arn

[Shasterball]

I think it was pretty clear that they were going to roll out a lot of the 3G networks by June...

[Pippen Man]

A new 3G network a day, keeps the 2.5G iPhones away.;)

[lamina]

Well I guess this confirms the 3G iPhone will have HSUPA support

[RidleyGriff]

It's like a cat & mouse game.
I hope that 3G will be working once new iPhone is out.

It will likely be the same as it was with the original iPhone -- working on release date, followed by several outtages in different areas of the country over the next couple months until they get all the bugs ironed out.

Hopefully if 3G goes down, we'll be able to fall back on the EDGE instead of being dead in the water...

[krye]

Awesome. I was thinking for a minute that a 3G iPhone would be a waste until AT&T got their act together. But it looks like we'll be full throttle on launch day. Pretty sweet. Of course, AT&T isn't dropping mad cash on updating their network so we can have 3G for free. There will be a premium. So no more $59 plan. We're probably looking at $69.99.

[iliketomac]

As long as the iPhone rates stay comparably the same, then it's even better news! So we'll see.... :confused:

[diamond.g]

Of course Quantico, VA gets no love :(

[MacKinvan]

I was hoping that the 3G upgrade would have been to 7.2 HSPDA. I assume that this is a stop-gap until LTE, and AT&T is doing this just for Apple.

[louden]

I certainly hope there's the capability to use a 3G iPhone as a bluetooth modem for Macs and PCs.

Can you hear me, Mr. Jobs?

I also certainly hope AT&T doesn't try to pump up some inflated charges for phone to PC data connectivity like the old Cingular did with my Windows Mobile phone.

Can you hear me, Mr. Bell?

Thank God the rest of the world demands mediocrity, otherwise, I think we'd be paying for this...

[aleixpinardell]

!!!

AT&T is offering iPhone for $249 - $349 :)

AT&T Refurbished cell phones (http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phones/refurb-phones.jsp)

[carrjar]

If Apple introduces video chat with new iPhones, our family will finally own two of them. Can't wait to see!

[LoganT]

This will cost a premium. I'd bet an iPhone on it.

Highly doubt it. Look at any phone on AT&T ones that only have EDGE are the same price as the ones that have 3G HSDPA. And it doesn't matter if you only have EDGE in your area the 3G phone will still work you just won't get 3G speeds. You'll get EDGE speeds until you go into a 3G area.

[longofest]

Hoping that this is evidence pointing to the inclusion of Video Chat in iPhone 2.0....

but knowing I'm setting myself to be disappointed.

Not really sure we've seen enough evidence to indicate video chat in the 3G iphone, but if/when it does come, it will certainly need the HSUPA bandwidth.

Of course Quantico, VA gets no love :(

move just a bit north and you'll be in dreaded "NoVA" with me, and we can share in 3G glory.

[Scooterman1]

This will be good if you live in the City, but in-between cities still leaves the Current iPhone a better choice without having to spend more money. There are still Wide Gaps in their 3G Service. And the article says nothing at all about filling in those gaps. They just state that they will complete it in the six remaining markets. This tells me that they are not filling in the non-3G areas in their current markets.

[longofest]

800 Kbps up (100K/s up)
1.4 Mbps down (175K/s down)

Not as good as Cable, probably comparable or better than DSL.

arn

If you're close to the base station than DSL can be faster than this. I've seen some DSL be up to 3 Mbps (https://www22.verizon.com/content/consumerdsl/popups/planright/planright.htm)

[ktemkin]

Arn,

Can you do a better job of explaining some this?

Your post talks about this HSUPA network begin deployed "on [AT&T's] 3G network."

Does that mean that HSUPA IS the 3G network? Or is it a protocol on the network? Is it the thing that makes the 3G network 3G? From this posting, I just do not know.

What is HSUPA? (and not just what it stands-for.) What is the significance of HSUPA?

Your post uses three acronyms: HSUPA, HSDPA and HSPA, but only tells us what the first one stands for.

This almost looks like a reposting of a AT&T press release without any explanation.

Ken

[diamond.g]

Not really sure we've seen enough evidence to indicate video chat in the 3G iphone, but if/when it does come, it will certainly need the HSUPA bandwidth.



move just a bit north and you'll be in dreaded "NoVA" with me, and we can share in 3G glory.

I couldn't afford to live in NoVA.. Shoot my house is in Fredericksburg...


Eventually AT&T will hit up my area of I95 with 3G speeds and I should be able to see some love then.

[Peace]

Highly doubt it. Look at any phone on AT&T ones that only have EDGE are the same price as the ones that have 3G HSDPA. And it doesn't matter if you only have EDGE in your area the 3G phone will still work you just won't get 3G speeds. You'll get EDGE speeds until you go into a 3G area.


What I meant by "premium" is AT&T will have bandwidth caps like Verizon and now (gasp ) Comcast. Anything over a set amount and you get charged.

[TLewis]

800 Kbps up (100K/s up)
1.4 Mbps down (175K/s down)

Not as good as Cable, probably comparable or better than DSL.

That's low-end DSL.

Considering all the 3G drooling that's going on, I predict that people will be disappointed with the speed once the 3G iPhone comes out, because (1) 3G is still slow (much better than EDGE, but still slow), and (2) the iPhone's processor is slow (and I haven't seen any rumors regarding a processor speed increase).

I have a somewhat fast DSL line (6.0mbps down, 600k up) with wifi, and I think the iPhone is only marginally usable in terms of speed (wifi, of course). Since AT&T's 3G is significantly slower than my DSL line, I'm definitely not excited about 3G (and please note that AT&T's 3G coverage is significantly less than EDGE).

Of course, there could be other features in the new iPhone that'll make me drool, but 3G is nowhere on my list. :cool:

[Maxington]

Hmm. I would love to see news about the expected expansion of the 3G coverage. I have not been able to find a single drop of good info.

WTB full 3G coverage of existing AT&T service area!!!

[rockstarjoe]

What I meant by "premium" is AT&T will have bandwidth caps like Verizon and now (gasp ) Comcast. Anything over a set amount and you get charged.

These caps are usually 5GB a month (for 3G data). I don't have an iphone, let alone a 3G capable phone, so I don't know how reasonable that cap is.

[dongmin]

Arn,

Can you do a better job of explaining some this?

Your post talks about this HSUPA network begin deployed "on [AT&T's] 3G network."

Does that mean that HSUPA IS the 3G network? Or is it a protocol on the network? Is it the thing that makes the 3G network 3G? From this posting, I just do not know.

What is HSUPA? (and not just what it stands-for.) What is the significance of HSUPA?

Your post uses three acronyms: HSUPA, HSDPA and HSPA, but only tells us what the first one stands for.

This almost looks like a reposting of a AT&T press release without any explanation.

Ken

HSUPA = high-speed upload (or High-Speed Uplink Packet Access to be precise)
HSDPA = high-speed download (or High-Speed Downlink Packet Access)
HSPA = general term covering both HSUPA and HSDPA (and HSOPA)

speeds will vary according to implementation

[Peace]

These caps are usually 5GB a month (for 3G data). I don't have an iphone, let alone a 3G capable phone, so I don't know how reasonable that cap is.

Get an iPhone with 2.0 and start streaming TV and see what kind of bandwidth you start using. It's a conspiracy to get more money.

[TLewis]

If you're close to the base station than DSL can be faster than this. I've seen some DSL be up to 3 Mbps (https://www22.verizon.com/content/consumerdsl/popups/planright/planright.htm)
DSL goes up to at least 6.0Mbps down/600k up (residential). That's what I have, and it's really nice to get 600+Kbytes/sec downloads.

[nagromme]

Sounds like US 3G is becoming worth a little extra thickness.

[dongmin]

That's low-end DSL.

Considering all the 3G drooling that's going on, I predict that people will be disappointed with the speed once the 3G iPhone comes out, because (1) 3G is still slow (much better than EDGE, but still slow), and (2) the iPhone's processor is slow (and I haven't seen any rumors regarding a processor speed increase).

I have a somewhat fast DSL line (6.0mbps down, 600k up) with wifi, and I think the iPhone is only marginally usable in terms of speed (wifi, of course). Since AT&T's 3G is significantly slower than my DSL line, I'm definitely not excited about 3G (and please note that AT&T's 3G coverage is significantly less than EDGE).

Of course, there could be other features in the new iPhone that'll make me drool, but 3G is nowhere on my list. :cool:

Well at least 3G removes the network as the bottleneck.

The processor can get only so much faster without taking a toll on battery life. It's a pocketable device. You're gonna have to make some compromises somewhere.

[cdinca]

anyone have insight on what at&t means by "markets" when it says that 3g is in 275 markets and will be in 350 by years end?

I'm on the central coast of california (santa cruz area) the sf bay area has great 3g coverage, but it pretty stops at the mountains that separate them from us. My fear is that they will focus on new major areas as their promised 75 more markets rather than expand to the outskirts of their existing markets.

I'm on wifi a lot anyway, so it shouldn't matter, but I wanted to get a new iPhone when it came out, but I can't justify it if I won't be able to use the 3G...unless mine breaks...hmmm.

[Alkiera]

DSL goes up to at least 6.0Mbps down/600k up (residential). That's what I have, and it's really nice to get 600+Kbytes/sec downloads.

Actually, my local DSL carrier is upgrading their 'DSL Max' plan to 1Mbit up, 10 Mbit download speeds. It's currently 6Mbit down, 384kbit up. On the download side, you only really see it with bit-torrent style downloads, as few single servers can output that kind of bandwidth. The internet itself is too slow.

[TLewis]

Well at least 3G removes the network as the bottleneck.

The processor can get only so much faster without taking a toll on battery life. It's a pocketable device. You're gonna have to make some compromises somewhere.
True, no argument there.

My post was aimed at all the people who think that 3G is going to make the iPhone really fast ....

[Digital Skunk]

AT&T better hurry up and have their network up and running. It would suck to have that new 3G iPhone and NO faster than EDGE network to run it on.

And I do hope prices do stay the same. Especially since the current prices are outrageous for the lousy speeds of EDGE.

[parapup]

800 Kbps up (100K/s up)
1.4 Mbps down (175K/s down)

Not as good as Cable, probably comparable or better than DSL.



In reality though, it sucked big time. I recently was travelling and bought a laptop connect card and 3G connectivity was spotty at the best and even when connected at 3G speeds the latency was higher than DSL or Cable.

On top of that the driver provided for the express card was so unreliable - 5-6 kernel panics in a day's use. Deeply unfunny.

Hopefully it will get better with 3G iPhones.

[khanriazaoif]

In reality though, it sucked big time. I recently was travelling and bought a laptop connect card and 3G connectivity was spotty at the best and even when connected at 3G speeds the latency was higher than DSL or Cable.

On top of that the driver provided for the express card was so unreliable - 5-6 kernel panics in a day's use. Deeply unfunny.

Hopefully it will get better with 3G iPhones.

what do you mean latency was higher than DSL or Cable?

[voodoofish]

in europe we have had video calling since 3G networks were launched, and it doesn't use HSUPA. i don't know exactly how it works, but i think the video is sent like a call rather than like data over an internet connection, and will be billed by the minute rather than by the amount of data send. you ring someone on their normal phone number, you just choose an option on your phone for video call rather than normal call. the majority of 3G phones (but not all) support it, and all 3G networks i can think of in Europe support it, but few people use it as it's expensive and to be honest there isn't much of a demand - however lots of phone manufacturers add it, since in europe most people buy their phones subsidised through carrier and carriers are more likely to subsidise a phone by more if it supports features they think will make them more money, like video calling. if the 3G iphone does support video calling, it seems likely to me that it will do it through this feature of the 3G network rather than as a data connection over HSUPA, since most 3G network outside the US already support video calling in this way.


(see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_calling#Current_use for a picture of a 3G phone in europe making a video call, or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMTS#Features where it talks of how the UMTS standard - ie. the version of 3G that AT&T uses but without the addiction of any HS... etc. features that speed it up - supports video conferencing)

[SevenInchScrew]

Actually, my local DSL carrier is upgrading their 'DSL Max' plan to 1Mbit up, 10 Mbit download speeds...
Same here. I live in Omaha, and use Qwest for my DSL. I'm paying for their 7mbps/768kbps plan. But in reality, I get more in the range of 8-9mbps down, and over 1mbps up. I'm not sure where in relation to the base node I am, but I'm very pleased with the speeds. The 1.5mbps that I see people quote all the time for DSL speed is basically the slowest you can get around here as far as DSL.

[TLewis]

In reality though, it sucked big time. I recently was travelling and bought a laptop connect card and 3G connectivity was spotty at the best and even when connected at 3G speeds the latency was higher than DSL or Cable.
Out of curiosity, would anyone happen to know which frequencies AT&T is using?

The use of 1800MHz or 1900MHz would help to explain the spotty connectivity (the higher the frequency, the more easily it is attenuated ("blocked") by objects such as walls, floors, pipes, mirrors, heater ducts, etc.).

[diamond.g]

what do you mean latency was higher than DSL or Cable?

Response time for WLAN configs (called latency) is higher than LAN configs. 3G improves it, but it still is higher than LAN.

[bushido]

i dont recommend using the iPhone as a modem even tho it gets 3G cuz the contract usually excludes the unlimited dataplan for modem use etc

here someone from college used his has a regular modem to download stuff and then he got a bill from vodaphone charging him 30.000 $ lol he didnt have to pay it tho but still shocking

[arn]

Arn,

Can you do a better job of explaining some this?

Sorry if it wasn't clear. someone else mentioned it.

But they've added 3G upload (HSUPA) to their network in all the places they had 3G download (HSDPA), meaning a "complete" HSPA network.

I tweaked it a little to see if it's easier to understand.

arn

[diamond.g]

in europe we have had video calling since 3G networks were launched, and it doesn't use HSUPA. i don't know exactly how it works, but i think the video is sent like a call rather than like data over an internet connection, and will be billed by the minute rather than by the amount of data send. you ring someone on their normal phone number, you just choose an option on your phone for video call rather than normal call. the majority of 3G phones (but not all) support it, and all 3G networks i can think of in Europe support it, but few people use it as it's expensive and to be honest there isn't much of a demand - however lots of phone manufacturers add it, since in europe most people buy their phones subsidised through carrier and carriers are more likely to subsidise a phone by more if it supports features they think will make them more money, like video calling. if the 3G iphone does support video calling, it seems likely to me that it will do it through this feature of the 3G network rather than as a data connection over HSUPA, since most 3G network outside the US already support video calling in this way.


(see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_calling#Current_use for a picture of a 3G phone in europe making a video call, or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMTS#Features where it talks of how the UMTS standard - ie. the version of 3G that AT&T uses but without the addiction of any HS... etc. features that speed it up - supports video conferencing)

AT&T has half way video calls (http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/messaging-internet/media-entertainment/video-share-faqs.jsp). They just would have to enable both ways. They use similar means as you described.

[ktemkin]

Sorry if it wasn't clear. someone else mentioned it.

But they've added 3G upload (HSUPA) to their network in all the places they had 3G download (HSDPA), meaning a "complete" HSPA network.

I tweaked it a little to see if it's easier to understand.

arn

Thanks for being responsive

Ken

[voodoofish]

AT&T has half way video calls (http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/messaging-internet/media-entertainment/video-share-faqs.jsp). They just would have to enable both ways. They use similar means as you described.

yeah so they would probably just do that rather than use the HSUPA connection.

[compuguy1088]

Of course Quantico, VA gets no love :(

Lucky for me I live in the 3g coverage of NoVA....outside of that it is pretty sketchy....:(

[pjrichwine]

For those in the Midwest, I have heard from the local stores it will be available by the end of August at the latest, but from this link, it would seem it will be happening earlier than that.

-Phil

[MacKinvan]

Arn,

Can you do a better job of explaining some this?

Your post talks about this HSUPA network begin deployed "on [AT&T's] 3G network."

Does that mean that HSUPA IS the 3G network? Or is it a protocol on the network? Is it the thing that makes the 3G network 3G? From this posting, I just do not know.

What is HSUPA? (and not just what it stands-for.) What is the significance of HSUPA?

Your post uses three acronyms: HSUPA, HSDPA and HSPA, but only tells us what the first one stands for.

This almost looks like a reposting of a AT&T press release without any explanation.

Ken

HSPA=High Speed Protocol Acces: This represents 3G as a whole.
HSDPA=High Speed Download Protocol Access: This is the download aspect of data transfer. This generally faster.
HSUPA=High Speed Upload Protocol Access: This is the upload aspect of the data transfer. Slower.

[TheSlush]

Speaking of slow, is it just me or does AT&T's coverage map update SLOOOOOWLY...

[gloss]

Lucky for me I live in the 3g coverage of NoVA....outside of that it is pretty sketchy....:(

Wewt for The 703.

And The 571, I guess.

[otso]

800 Kbps up (100K/s up)
1.4 Mbps down (175K/s down)

Not as good as Cable, probably comparable or better than DSL.

arn

We have here (Finland, Elisa network) HSPA 14.4mbps down / 1.5mbps up.

And what comes to DSL lines, average is 8/1mbps, i have subscribed to 24/3mbps.

[JitteryJimmy]

I'm on the central coast of california (santa cruz area) the sf bay area has great 3g coverage, but it pretty stops at the mountains that separate them from us. My fear is that they will focus on new major areas as their promised 75 more markets rather than expand to the outskirts of their existing markets.

Welcome to the economics of the service industry. In short, most service providers earn more if they spent $10,000 to service an area with 1000 customers per square mile, versus spending $5,000 to service an area with 100 customers per square mile.

That's the rub of rural living. Then again, I've got some beautiful trees and a pasture and lots of mountains that city folks can't get.

[twoodcc]

just in time for the 3G iPhone. sounds good to me

[Clive At Five]

What? There's a new iPhone coming out?

[dasein]

If you're close to the base station than DSL can be faster than this. I've seen some DSL be up to 3 Mbps (https://www22.verizon.com/content/consumerdsl/popups/planright/planright.htm)
Mine with AT&T runs consistently at 5.1Mbps for a year and a half now.

[SirOmega]

A few notes:

- The rumored 3G chip going into the iPhone doesn't support HSUPA (Infineon SGOLD3H), just HSDPA. However I believe it does support HSDPA 7.2Mb/s.
- The problem with video calls over the data network is latency - the latency on the voice call is lower than it is for a data connection. So if they were to try and use HSUPA for video calls, it could be laggy.

[true777]

1.4 Mbps -- is this a joke?

In Austria every single wireless provider has been offering 7.2Mbps HSDPA for 1-2 years (up from 3.6Mbps, which has been available for years), so 1.4Mbps seems like a step back in history. I certainly hope AT&T will upgrade their network to 7.2Mbps HSDPA ASAP, and don't quite understand why they would even implement obsolete network technology at this point.

[TonyHoyle]

We have here (Finland, Elisa network) HSPA 14.4mbps down / 1.5mbps up.

And what comes to DSL lines, average is 8/1mbps, i have subscribed to 24/3mbps.

I presume 1.4Mbps is an AT&T cap. 3G is either 384 (which nobody uses), or 3.6/7.2/14.4Mbps (HSDPA, technically 3.5G but everybody calls it 3G). That's theoretical of course, but I consistently get 2.5-3Mbps on the 3.6Mbps connection... and the networks here are upgrading to 7.2Mbps over the next year so that should double (OTOH my DSL is 18Mbps so it's got some catching up to do).

[ltldrummerboy]

If you're close to the base station than DSL can be faster than this. I've seen some DSL be up to 3 Mbps (https://www22.verizon.com/content/consumerdsl/popups/planright/planright.htm)

We can get 3Mbps DSL here in Alaska for $90 a month. Any chance of 3G up here? Are there places that they said won't be getting it by June?

[Dagless]

Why are they rolling out 3G in June? What's happening in June?! Could it be the new iPhone, have I found out the secret? :eek:
MEGA MEGA WINK

[TonyHoyle]

Could be just a deadline... these things take years of planning - way longer than the iphone has been in existance.

eg. When the Ofcom in the UK sold the 3G licenses in 2000, a condition of the license was 80% 3G coverage by 31 December 2007. It didn't happen overnight... there was 7 years of slack in there and a certain operator begnning with O and ending in 2 didn't even manage that modest goal (most providers except the aforeentioned one are over 90% now).

* http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/Feb2007/4316.htm

[yayaba]

To all those that wonder if they can cancel their broadband cable or DSL, I wouldn't go to that level yet. Some people have pointed it out but latency is the real killer on these mobile broadband services.

I've gotten as low as 100ms latency on AT&T 3G hooked up to a laptop which made browsing a lot better than the 300ms latency on AT&T EDGE.

For those who have never really experienced latency, imagine there being lots of pauses when you surf:

Waiting for data from...
<pause>
Transferring data from...
<pause>
Waiting for data from...
<pause>

The effect is very noticeable off an EDGE connection. EDGE technically can hit 20-30kbps which if you sat down on a DSL connection at 20-30kbps pages would load up pretty fast actually due to the low latency (10-20ms). But try and use EDGE on a phone or tethered and even though you can pull 20-30kbps the latency makes the connection seem extremely slow in comparison.

I think this is all right, feel free to correct me if not :cool:

[pfish]

If you're close to the base station than DSL can be faster than this. I've seen some DSL be up to 3 Mbps (https://www22.verizon.com/content/consumerdsl/popups/planright/planright.htm)

Huh??? Most carriers have DSL up to 6Mbps/768k up. I know I've had 6 megs for several years now.

[AHDuke99]

Charleston better get 3G or I probably won't buy a 3G iPhone. I heard we are getting it in June, but we aren't listed on their cities list.

[iphoneblack]

They won't increase the unlimited data plan fee right?
I changed to the $15 data, no virtual voice mail and 200 free text messages plan, to save $5 a month :o The AT&T guy told me that as long as it is only a smart phone, my current plan provides me unlimited 3G speed w/o any extra cost

[cdinca]

Welcome to the economics of the service industry. In short, most service providers earn more if they spent $10,000 to service an area with 1000 customers per square mile, versus spending $5,000 to service an area with 100 customers per square mile.

That's the rub of rural living. Then again, I've got some beautiful trees and a pasture and lots of mountains that city folks can't get.

Just to be clear, are you suggesting santa cruz is rural? I mean, I am ass to ass with people here and our freeways hardly move. we have a 4,794 person per square mile density. true the city is only 12 square miles, but the county has 264,000 people. Sure, it is not big city...but on the bigger side of small.

[gloss]

1.4 Mbps -- is this a joke?

In Austria every single wireless provider has been offering 7.2Mbps HSDPA for 1-2 years (up from 3.6Mbps, which has been available for years), so 1.4Mbps seems like a step back in history. I certainly hope AT&T will upgrade their network to 7.2Mbps HSDPA ASAP, and don't quite understand why they would even implement obsolete network technology at this point.

They're expecting to have the network running at 7.2Mbps by the end of 2009, I believe.

[gwerhart0800]

Hoping that this is evidence pointing to the inclusion of Video Chat in iPhone 2.0....

but knowing I'm setting myself to be disappointed.

If you are expecting video calling from AT&T, don't get your hopes up. The current "video sharing" adds video to an existing voice call by initiating separate call via the data connection. The audio/video is not synchronized because they are entirely separate connections. Additionally, there is no way to use the "video sharing" to call someone on another 3G cell provider that has video calling. While the AT&T network could support the same kind of video calling implemented outside the US, AT&T seems to be saving a few bucks by not investing in the needed 3G-324 equipment to move video calls between different types of networks.

Who knows, AT&T seems to be pulling subscribers from other US networks (Sprint is certainly taking it on the chin) and they may have enough cash to invest in the additional infrastructure. Video calling in Europe has had a very slow start and does not seem to be the "killer app" that drives revenue from the expensive 3G networks.

[alphaod]

That's low-end DSL.

Considering all the 3G drooling that's going on, I predict that people will be disappointed with the speed once the 3G iPhone comes out, because (1) 3G is still slow (much better than EDGE, but still slow), and (2) the iPhone's processor is slow (and I haven't seen any rumors regarding a processor speed increase).

I have a somewhat fast DSL line (6.0mbps down, 600k up) with wifi, and I think the iPhone is only marginally usable in terms of speed (wifi, of course). Since AT&T's 3G is significantly slower than my DSL line, I'm definitely not excited about 3G (and please note that AT&T's 3G coverage is significantly less than EDGE).

Of course, there could be other features in the new iPhone that'll make me drool, but 3G is nowhere on my list. :cool:

First off this is a cell phone network so what do you expect?

Second, let's see you bring your DSL on your next vacation to another city.

[Eminemdrdre00]

I've got a question about 3G Coverage...

Do you have to be in the city that ATT lists as having 3G? I'm about 10 miles out of the major city here in CT that has 3G. Would I still be able to get the 3G speeds in my town?

I cant wait to get the new iPhone either way, it'll be my first smartphone!

[macfan881]

hmmm one would think apple is making a G3 Iphone im surpised we havent heard any rumors on a g3 iphone yet
:rolleyes:


/end sarcasm

[QuarterSwede]

move just a bit north and you'll be in dreaded "NoVA" with me, and we can share in 3G glory.
First of all, Quantico and Fredericksburg are in the lower ends of NoVA since the traffic is easily as bad or worse there. Secondly, ... or move out of state like I did to a larger city that has less traffic and great 3G coverage.

I couldn't afford to live in NoVA.. Shoot my house is in Fredericksburg...
That's where I moved from. We couldn't take the traffic anymore. Just living there was stressful enough never mind the stress from work. What other city has ONE major road and does nothing about it!? Morons. If you want a case study on piss poor city planning that's the city to look at.

Same here. I live in Omaha, and use Qwest for my DSL. I'm paying for their 7mbps/768kbps plan. But in reality, I get more in the range of 8-9mbps down, and over 1mbps up. I'm not sure where in relation to the base node I am, but I'm very pleased with the speeds. The 1.5mbps that I see people quote all the time for DSL speed is basically the slowest you can get around here as far as DSL.
The only people that need a faster connection are those that download a lot from Bitorrent, etc. Just browsing the web won't be any faster since the servers are usually what's causing the slow down. Why buy a Ferrari when you're almost always going the speed limit?

[TLewis]

First off this is a cell phone network so what do you expect?

Second, let's see you bring your DSL on your next vacation to another city.
Eh? WTH are you talking about? :p

Personally, I'm expecting 3G to be so-so in terms of speed (just as you say :D -- go back and read what I wrote). I'm saying that too many people appear to be expecting blazing speed because of "3G", and I'm guessing that we're going to be seeing some serious whining here once people realize just how fast 3G is (in the US, not elsewhere).

[TLewis]

Do you have to be in the city that ATT lists as having 3G? I'm about 10 miles out of the major city here in CT that has 3G. Would I still be able to get the 3G speeds in my town?
Go to AT&T's website and check out the 3G coverage maps. If you're not in the blue zones, you might want to be prepared to be disappointed.

[TLewis]

Just to be clear, are you suggesting santa cruz is rural? I mean, I am ass to ass with people here and our freeways hardly move. we have a 4,794 person per square mile density. true the city is only 12 square miles, but the county has 264,000 people. Sure, it is not big city...but on the bigger side of small.
Who knows? :confused:

Other cities/counties, that got 3G, are bigger than Santa Cruz (the city or the county), and so that may have played a part. Still, I am surprised at some places that supposedly got 3G, like San Luis Obispo. :p

[winterspan]

How will this compare to DSL or Cable? Should I dump my crappy Verizon DSL and just plug a USB 3G modem into my iMac for my network's internet access?

DSL will almost always be faster and will have much lower latency (travel time from your computer to the web server), too. These HSDPA/HSUPA speeds they show are best-case scenarios. There are a million
different variables that affect your connection speed, and the average real-world speeds are a lot lower than the stated maximums. I think AT&T's HSDPA speed is rated at either 3.6 or 7.2mbps, but you will rarely see anything over 1.5mbps, and most of the time you will see 1/2 of that.

Huh??? Most carriers have DSL up to 6Mbps/768k up. I know I've had 6 megs for several years now.

DSL service speeds depend on many factors, particularly your distance to the carrier's exchange, and the quality of the lines. In the USA, where the lines are usually older and run much further from the carrier's exchange/switch, speeds are generally MUCH SLOWER than comparable service in Europe/Asia. Outside of large cities, most people can usually only get 1.5mbps or rarely 3.0mbps DSL. In Europe and ASIA, they routinely get 15-20+ mbps service.


Awesome. I was thinking for a minute that a 3G iPhone would be a waste until AT&T got their act together. But it looks like we'll be full throttle on launch day. Pretty sweet. Of course, AT&T isn't dropping mad cash on updating their network so we can have 3G for free. There will be a premium. So no more $59 plan. We're probably looking at $69.99.

All the carriers in the United States at least have NEVER charged more for 3G data access versus 2.5G data access. In addition, there are many reasons why they wouldn't do this and wouldn't be able to do this. Would it depend on the device you buy? What if you buy a 3G phone and you don't have access in your area? What if you keep it on 2.5G/EDGE mode to save power?
Besides, people are constantly moving and new 3G areas come online all the time. It would be a billing nightmare to have people constantly changing their data package depending on where they live or if they get 3G service.
And the technical level, it is probably not feasible to have seperate conditional access depending on what network a phone connects to. I would assume all of a carriers diverse networks authenticate the cellphone via the same backend database of subscribers.

I was hoping that the 3G upgrade would have been to 7.2 HSPDA. I assume that this is a stop-gap until LTE, and AT&T is doing this just for Apple.
This is not the last stopgap to LTE. I believe AT&T is planning to rollout "evolved HSPA"/HSPA+ on their current UMTS/HSPA network sometime in the next 1-2 years which will boost speeds upwards of 20+ mbps.


This will be good if you live in the City, but in-between cities still leaves the Current iPhone a better choice without having to spend more money. There are still Wide Gaps in their 3G Service. And the article says nothing at all about filling in those gaps. They just state that they will complete it in the six remaining markets. This tells me that they are not filling in the non-3G areas in their current markets.

Unfortunately, without governement mandates in the USA, the carriers will never roll out their premium services to rural areas with low population density. The buildout costs per potential subscriber is probably just too high to make any money.


Arn,

Can you do a better job of explaining some this? Your post talks about this HSUPA network begin deployed "on [AT&T's] 3G network." Does that mean that HSUPA IS the 3G network? Or is it a protocol on the network? Is it the thing that makes the 3G network 3G? From this posting, I just do not know.

What is HSUPA? (and not just what it stands-for.) What is the significance of HSUPA? Your post uses three acronyms: HSUPA, HSDPA and HSPA, but only tells us what the first one stands for. This almost looks like a reposting of a AT&T press release without any explanation. Ken

Wikipedia is your friend; so is Google. But here's a little chart I drew up a while ago:

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/5976/3gppgsmtrackdc2.png


AT&T better hurry up and have their network up and running. It would suck to have that new 3G iPhone and NO faster than EDGE network to run it on.

It's not a matter of flipping a power switch on one giant monolithic network. They have to go around and update all of their equipment in each city. They have actually had 3G services runnning in the metro areas for years. What they are doing now is getting their entire 3G network running the same HSDPA and HSUPA technology.


Out of curiosity, would anyone happen to know which frequencies AT&T is using?
The use of 1800MHz or 1900MHz would help to explain the spotty connectivity (the higher the frequency, the more easily it is attenuated ("blocked") by objects such as walls, floors, pipes, mirrors, heater ducts, etc.).

AT&T's UMTS network runs on both 850Mhz and 1900Mhz indepedently, meaning uplink and downlink are both either in 850Mhz OR 1900Mhz, and NOT both like other networks use. I'm not sure what percentage of their network is running on which frequency or even if it depends on geographic region. It probably has to do with the fact that AT&T is a hodgepodge of Cingluar, AT&T wireless, and many other acquisitions.


Response time for WLAN configs (called latency) is higher than LAN configs. 3G improves it, but it still is higher than LAN.

Well of course wireless latency is going to be higher than wired. That's a given. Whats important is that both HSDPA and HSUPA vastly reduce the latency of data connections versus plain UMTS and EDGE.


HSPA=High Speed Protocol Acces: This represents 3G as a whole.
HSDPA=High Speed Download Protocol Access: This is the download aspect of data transfer. This generally faster.
HSUPA=High Speed Upload Protocol Access: This is the upload aspect of the data transfer. Slower.

That's "packet access", not "protocol access".


1.4 Mbps -- is this a joke?

In Austria every single wireless provider has been offering 7.2Mbps HSDPA for 1-2 years (up from 3.6Mbps, which has been available for years), so 1.4Mbps seems like a step back in history. I certainly hope AT&T will upgrade their network to 7.2Mbps HSDPA ASAP, and don't quite understand why they would even implement obsolete network technology at this point.

The 1.4mbps the article used is most likely talking about real-world speed, not HSDPA's rated speeds of 1.8/3.6/7.2/14.4mbps

[winterspan]

I've got a question about 3G Coverage...

Do you have to be in the city that ATT lists as having 3G? I'm about 10 miles out of the major city here in CT that has 3G. Would I still be able to get the 3G speeds in my town? I cant wait to get the new iPhone either way, it'll be my first smartphone!

You'll have to look at the coverage map, but I would assume 10 miles our of ANY large city would be covered.

Eh? WTH are you talking about? :p

Someone was saying how much faster their broadband connection is than 3G. And his reply was "try and take your DSL connection with you on the road". In other words, even if you had a 100mbps fiber connection, it's worthless once you leave your house.

[winterspan]

.. mods please delete

[BenRoethig]

Well I guess this confirms the 3G iPhone will have HSUPA support

I'm hoping it ends up in the Macbooks too.

[iEdd]

Wow, even the slowest HSDPA would be faster than my home ADSL (1.8Mbps/384kbps vs 1.5Mbps/256kbps), which rarely reaches its top speed anyway.

There seems to be a bit of debate over the fastest ADSL speeds. In Australia, ADSL1 goes up to 8Mb/384kb, while ADSL2+ goes up to 24Mb/1Mb. :)

[stagi]

sweet can't wait to see how the iPhone uses this network

[Poudresteve]

For those of us living in medium sized cities (hmm Santa Cruz and Urbana-Champaign not having 3G - I guess AT&T doesn't care about higher ed) and hoping that we would see some love, this is just another reason to hate AT&T. I hope Apple puts some tasty new features in iPhone 2.0 to make it worth waiting all this time for, otherwise I'm going Verizon:Blackberry (they've had EVDO here for years).

[winterspan]

For those of us living in medium sized cities (hmm Santa Cruz and Urbana-Champaign not having 3G - I guess AT&T doesn't care about higher ed) and hoping that we would see some love, this is just another reason to hate AT&T. I hope Apple puts some tasty new features in iPhone 2.0 to make it worth waiting all this time for, otherwise I'm going Verizon:Blackberry (they've had EVDO here for years).

I'm sure there is better information on dslreports.com (not just about DSL -- all broadband is discussed) as a lot of people who hang out there are network engineers and/or have inside knowledge on rollouts. I wouldn't discount AT&T yet; Just within the last 6-9 months or so they rolled out 3G service to two entirely new regional areas in my state. Verizon will probably always have a wider coverage area, especially west of the Mississippi, but they DON'T have the iPhone. :eek:

[parapup]

what do you mean latency was higher than DSL or Cable?

Latency here equals the time delay between the moment a connection to a remote site is initiated, and the moment first bit arrives to the connection initiator.

Ping latency on my cable connection to google.com is generally 50ms or less whereas with the 3G connection it was more than 300ms.

[bbyrdhouse]

My local AT&T store just confirmed to me that 3G service will be in the Shreveport/Bossier area June 1st. :D

[frankly]

DSL goes up to at least 6.0Mbps down/600k up (residential). That's what I have, and it's really nice to get 600+Kbytes/sec downloads.

Only if you live close to a central office. My mother's DSL tops out at 1.5Mbps.

[frankly]

Speaking of slow, is it just me or does AT&T's coverage map update SLOOOOOWLY...

They are hoping you'll get frustrated and just close it instead of waiting to see how bad it really is ;)

[frankly]

This will be good if you live in the City, but in-between cities still leaves the Current iPhone a better choice without having to spend more money. There are still Wide Gaps in their 3G Service. And the article says nothing at all about filling in those gaps. They just state that they will complete it in the six remaining markets. This tells me that they are not filling in the non-3G areas in their current markets.

I agree.

I am so sick of all the discussion of 3G when AT&Ts 3G footprint is so damn pitiful. Why don't they roll out 3G in a lot more cities before they worry about upgrading the 3G network in cities that already have it? They are so frickin' behind the curve when it comes to Verizon and Sprint on this. AT&T needs to get a clue that this is a MOBILE network and unless you can actually travel out of your home city (if you are lucky enough to have their 3G in your city) and still connect then what is the point?

There are about 30,000 cities in the U.S. and AT&T is happily announcing that they are covering 250 of them with 3G? Seriously? Give me a frickin' break and roll out some more towers and upgrade the ones you have!!!!

[TLewis]

There are about 30,000 cities in the U.S. and AT&T is happily announcing that they are covering 250 of them with 3G? Seriously? Give me a frickin' break and roll out some more towers and upgrade the ones you have!!!!
Well, I probably need my head examined for saying this, but I'll say it anyway: in AT&T's defense, they have been rolling out 3G and upgrading/installing towers. I remember looking at AT&T's 3G coverage maps last July/August, and it was more sparse than it is today. I live in a "fringe area", which had no 3G coverage then, but now has some coverage. (Not that I'm complaining, but I'm surprised that they would add coverage in my area.)

[TLewis]

You'll have to look at the coverage map, but I would assume 10 miles our of ANY large city would be covered.
I'd love to make that assumption, but that doesn't seem to be true, if AT&T's coverage maps are accurate. For example, if you look at the 3G maps for the SF bay area, there are a fair number of coverage holes. Parts of the maps resemble swiss cheese.

[frankly]

Well, I probably need my head examined for saying this, but I'll say it anyway: in AT&T's defense, they have been rolling out 3G and upgrading/installing towers. I remember looking at AT&T's 3G coverage maps last July/August, and it was more sparse than it is today. I live in a "fringe area", which had no 3G coverage then, but now has some coverage. (Not that I'm complaining, but I'm surprised that they would add coverage in my area.)

I live in a county that has over 250,000 people living in it and the only wireless company offering 3G here is Verizon. Right now I have Sprint so I can roam on the Verizon network if I really need 3G but AT&T is pitiful with their footprint.

Actually your statement is a bit ridiculous. Of course they are rolling out 3G. I'm questioning the speed at which they are rolling it out. I also seriously question them upgrading areas that already have 3G to an even better version of 3G without adding it to areas that have none.

[pseudonymph]

Of course they are rolling out 3G. I'm questioning the speed at which they are rolling it out. I also seriously question them upgrading areas that already have 3G to an even better version of 3G without adding it to areas that have none.

I'm finding 3g coverage in new places while driving around every day now. ATT is definitely working on it.

As for your second statement, upgrading existing 3g towers to faster speeds is probably a lot cheaper and faster than putting up brand new 3g equipment on towers. And there's no reason ATT can't do both at the same time, they're a big company.

[lucky3killer]

800 Kbps up (100K/s up)
1.4 Mbps down (175K/s down)

Not as good as Cable, probably comparable or better than DSL.

arn

My DSL is 3 mbps, that faster than 3G but 3G still slower than some DSL.

However, no 3G in my area as well.

[frankly]

I'm finding 3g coverage in new places while driving around every day now. ATT is definitely working on it.

As for your second statement, upgrading existing 3g towers to faster speeds is probably a lot cheaper and faster than putting up brand new 3g equipment on towers. And there's no reason ATT can't do both at the same time, they're a big company.

Where do you live? Because I live in Georgia, which is the 9th most populous state with almost 10 million people and yet only 2 cities are covered with 3G.

By contrast, Arizona has around 6 million people and has coverage in 9 cities.
Virginia, less than 8 million and 5 cities covered.
Nevada, 2.5 million and 8 cities covered.

In a word, ridiculous.

[SwiftLives]

Google "AT&T 3g" and your city name. That should link you to a press release detailing whether or not your city is due for a 3G upgrade.

AT&T will be adding Columbus & Savannah in Georgia sometime later this year.

[frankly]

Google "AT&T 3g" and your city name. That should link you to a press release detailing whether or not your city is due for a 3G upgrade.

AT&T will be adding Columbus & Savannah in Georgia sometime later this year.

1) I'll believe it when I see it.
2) Georgia is a big state and for it to be the middle of 2008 and they might bring their total up to 4 cities this year is just pitiful. It really is. Check out Verizon's coverage of GA right now:

http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/CoverageLocatorController?requesttype=NEWREQUEST&lid=//global//plans//coverage+maps

They have broadband coverage over more than half of the state. It makes AT&T look ridiculous. AT&T is the LARGEST wireless company and yet they are getting their butt kicked on coverage by Verizon. How can you defend them when confronted with these facts?

I'm not saying they are all bad but their coverage is ridiculous considering the size of the company and the number of subscribers.

[CalfCanuck]

800 Kbps up (100K/s up)
1.4 Mbps down (175K/s down)

Not as good as Cable, probably comparable or better than DSL.

arn
Don't forget that these (like all cell phone numbers) are the ratings for each cell-phone mast. You share the bandwidth with all other users on your mast. So in that sense it is like the Cable market where you share your connection, with the appropriate speed drops at heavy times.

[retroneo]

I'd love to make that assumption, but that doesn't seem to be true, if AT&T's coverage maps are accurate. For example, if you look at the 3G maps for the SF bay area, there are a fair number of coverage holes. Parts of the maps resemble swiss cheese.

The phone will just handover to EDGE and eventually hand back to HSPA when you re-enter 3G coverage. This happens without dropping the connection.

[retroneo]

with all other users on your mast. So in that sense it is like the Cable market where you share your connection, with the appropriate speed drops at heavy times.

Whilst it is true that bandwidth is shared somewhat, the bottleneck isn't the air interface as you suggest but in fact the backhaul to the base station!

It's easy to get over 5Mbit sustained download speed using torrents with a 7.2Mbit data card in the city. (Telstra Next G - Australia). In rural (i.e. country) areas 2Mbit is doable.

[greekpaz22]

Fantastic! full 3g coverage to use with the new iPhone 3g when it comes out in June..can't wait to get one!

[jpine]

How will this compare to DSL or Cable? Should I dump my crappy Verizon DSL and just plug a USB 3G modem into my iMac for my network's internet access?

Hey, give this a try to see what your speed is. You do not have to live in the UK for it to work (I live in CA).

[airwalke]

3G in Boise, Idaho, but not in Des Moines, Iowa. Cold, AT&T. Just cold.

[billmister]

I heard from 2 people arleady that, although the new iPhone will be cheaper that AT&T will raise the price of subscription for the new iphone because of what you need to have on the plan.

is this true?...Because if it is, i guess i would just stick with my 16g iphone and have the new software in ther (you CAN have it for current iphone models right?) Only difference new iphone will have new designe and 3G.

because if my plan will be higher i might i might double think this move.

[frankly]

I heard from 2 people arleady that, although the new iPhone will be cheaper that AT&T will raise the price of subscription for the new iphone because of what you need to have on the plan.

is this true?...Because if it is, i guess i would just stick with my 16g iphone and have the new software in ther (you CAN have it for current iphone models right?) Only difference new iphone will have new designe and 3G.

because if my plan will be higher i might i might double think this move.

If you are already an AT&T customer then you will most likely be able to keep your current plan when you get a new phone. Therefore, you would get the iPhone at $199 and keep the $20 data rate. That is the increase being referred to. It is increasing to $30.

[Scooterman1]

If you are already an AT&T customer then you will most likely be able to keep your current plan when you get a new phone. Therefore, you would get the iPhone at $199 and keep the $20 data rate. That is the increase being referred to. It is increasing to $30.

Plus another $5.00 for 200 Txt messages which are Included in the $20.00 Edge plan.

[frankly]

Plus another $5.00 for 200 Txt messages which are Included in the $20.00 Edge plan.

Please provide a link where you see this information.