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MacBytes
Nov 24, 2003, 10:46 AM
Category: Videos
Link: Disgruntled iPod user taking on Apple's iPod Battery Policy... (too bad it's not actually true anymore.) (http://www.ipodsdirtysecret.com)

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)

Approved by arn

arn
Nov 24, 2003, 10:49 AM
well done video.

would have a bigger impact if it was still true... since Apple has introduced an official iPod battery replacement policy.

arn

Bendit
Nov 24, 2003, 11:00 AM
He still has a very valid point. It took Apple years to finally offer battery replacements.

Just because it's no longer true doesn't mean apple didn't screw iPod users for a long time.

arn
Nov 24, 2003, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by Bendit
He still has a very valid point. It took Apple years to finally offer battery replacements.

Just because it's no longer true doesn't mean apple didn't screw iPod users for a long time.

Well, considering the iPods have only been in existence for 2 years.... depending on when u think the iPod's battery goes bad.... they've only been screwing early users for 6 months. ;)

arn

celaurie
Nov 24, 2003, 11:33 AM
Apple and batteries is a sore point with a lot of people.

I have an iBook 600 with a 20 minute battery life that I can't get a replacement for and a friend who has an iBook 700 that utterly died after a year of use who also cannot get a repalcement. It sucks!

More support from upstairs would be nice.

cel, the lifeless battery guy

dracoleb
Nov 24, 2003, 11:51 AM
Don't get Mac users mad, they have massive Video editing power and mediocre video editing skills at their disposal, Be afraid, be very afraid :cool:

gunnmjk
Nov 24, 2003, 12:09 PM
The guys an idiot. Just because YOUR iPod battery dies, doesn't mean that everybody's will die at the SAME TIME! Hardly constitutes discrediting posters for new iPods.
Even if the old gen iPods had low batter lifetimes, the new ones surely do not. So why stop people from buying a new one?

imaswitcheryeah
Nov 24, 2003, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by gunnmjk
The guys an idiot. Just because YOUR iPod battery dies, doesn't mean that everybody's will die at the SAME TIME!

You are basically right. It depends on your usage/recharge habits. It's all ways a good rule of thumb to try and use up as much of the battery before recharging to get the most life out of rechargeable batteries. I try to do that as much as I can with my T616 since battery life is really important with cell phones. Luckily, on my iRiver SlimX 400 CD player, there are 2 options when recharging the batteries, one is just a basic recharge and the other is discharge and recharge. An easily addable feature to the iPod with a simple firmware update. Now if only iRiver will release a firmware update for my CD player to support AAC!!!

Laslo Panaflex
Nov 24, 2003, 12:25 PM
I think that he had a great point, the battery should not die after 18 months, and if it does it shouldn't cost that much to replace. I know that apple now has a battery replacement plan, but comon, I paid $400 for my ipod, I would like the battery to last longer than a year and a half. I bought a sony video camera when I was in 8th grade, that was 10 years ago and its rechargeable battery still works like it did when I bought it. Oh well, maybe I am comparing two not very comparable items, but the point is there is battery technoloy that can last, its not like the ipod uses as much power as my camera, or a laptop, I mean is the ipod really that much stress on the battery?

That's just my opinion.

machinehien
Nov 24, 2003, 12:30 PM
To the Neistat Bros

Gee guys, you expended a lot of effort in letting everyone know and were thoughtful enough in videotaping yourselves defacing a bunch of posters. I was expecting something at least charming or funny, not three minutes of sour grapes. That's a chunk of my life I will never recover.

As for everyone else, don't bother visiting the site, they don't deserve the traffic, I am amazed it triple over the past few hours. Or. Visit it and exceed their bandwidth usage.

Stella
Nov 24, 2003, 12:36 PM
Actually, they haven't.

Not if you live outside the US borders.

Typical apple policy - ignore the non-US markets.


Originally posted by arn
well done video.

would have a bigger impact if it was still true... since Apple has introduced an official iPod battery replacement policy.

arn

Blackstealth
Nov 24, 2003, 12:36 PM
I've had my iPod for almost two years now, I still get 6-8 hours of life out of the battery with regular use.

Lancetx
Nov 24, 2003, 12:39 PM
You're right, it's nothing more than a waste of time. There are always going to be a few lemons out there no matter what it is you're buying. You just chalk it up to experience and move on. Besides, aren't broken iPods going for $100-200 on eBay? I'd just sell mine there for whatever I could get for it and then go buy a new one if mine ever died.

mrsebastian
Nov 24, 2003, 12:40 PM
if ipods were a lot less expensive, i don't think people would have such a problem. if ipods would cost $150-200, people wouldn't give a sh#t about the battery issue, 'cause in 2 years they'd upgrade to a larger ipod anyway.

arn
Nov 24, 2003, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by mrsebastian
if ipods were a lot less expensive, i don't think people would have such a problem. if ipods would cost $150-200, people wouldn't give a sh#t about the battery issue, 'cause in 2 years they'd upgrade to a larger ipod anyway.

you underestimate people's ability to complain. ;)

arn

MacBandit
Nov 24, 2003, 01:30 PM
Too bad the guy failed to do some research before going to all this work to find out that there are replacement batteries on the market and instructions on how to do so.

Also yes, battery use and proper charging do have a lot to do with battery life. Unfortunately Apple does not explain this and the vast majority of the world does not know how to extend the life of there batteries through maintenance. So in affect it is Apples fault for not educating there consumers.

pgwalsh
Nov 24, 2003, 03:58 PM
I think the video is great!

I also think Apple charges to much for the replacement battery.

I'm gald there's online alternatives even though they cost $50.

It will be a better day when you can replace your iPod battery for $10.

manitoubalck
Nov 24, 2003, 04:34 PM
Yeah I liked the video, glad to see Apple finally realised that Li-Ion batteries only last 2 years and are offering replacements.

Counterfit
Nov 24, 2003, 04:39 PM
I think that some people will act like idiots and videotape themselves defacing other's property.

Hell, while we're thinking, I'm gonna think of some hot wimmin with free pizza!

QCassidy352
Nov 24, 2003, 04:43 PM
my ipod is 19 months old and still gets better life than you'd get out of a 3rd Gen. ipod fresh out of the package.

if and when it dies, I'll get a $50 replacement. I won't go around crying and vandalizing.

LethalWolfe
Nov 24, 2003, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by imaswitcheryeah
You are basically right. It depends on your usage/recharge habits. It's all ways a good rule of thumb to try and use up as much of the battery before recharging to get the most life out of rechargeable batteries. I try to do that as much as I can with my T616 since battery life is really important with cell phones. Luckily, on my iRiver SlimX 400 CD player, there are 2 options when recharging the batteries, one is just a basic recharge and the other is discharge and recharge. An easily addable feature to the iPod with a simple firmware update. Now if only iRiver will release a firmware update for my CD player to support AAC!!!


IIRC the iPod uses a Lithium-Ion battery. Those types of batteries do not develop "memories" so they do not need to be fully discharged before recharing. In fact quite the opposite is true. Fully discharing a Lithium-Ion battery could be harmful to the battery and manufacturers recommend frequent recharges to keep the battery level up as opposed to infrequent recharges and allowing the battery to drain all the way down.

Laslo Panaflex, no offense but I'm calling BS. I don't believe that a 10 year-old battery that gets regular use in your video camera has not lost any recharge ability at all? If Sony could make a battery that had a 10 year lifespan w/o losing any of it's capacity they would own the battery market.


Lethal

bennetsaysargh
Nov 24, 2003, 04:53 PM
one of the stupidest things i've ever seen.

can't we bring him to court for vandalism? we have video proof:p

but then again, people are just stupid sometimes.

Nicky G
Nov 24, 2003, 05:28 PM
It is in violation of federal law to record a telephone conversation without making the other party aware of the fact beforehand.

It's beyond idiotic to break a federal law and then video yourself breaking another law (vandalism).

It's even dumber to break the above two laws and then publicly flaunt the fact on a website that is registered under your own name, address, and phone number.

'Nuff said.

SiliconAddict
Nov 24, 2003, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by MacBytes
Category: Videos
Link: Disgruntled iPod user taking on Apple's iPod Battery Policy... (too bad it's not actually true anymore.) (http://www.ipodsdirtysecret.com)

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)

Approved by arn


Someone's been watching a few too many Target Market\Truth ads on TV :p

Seriously though. If I spent $500 on a device like this I'd expect better batt life. 500 charges isn't a whole heck of a lot. Maybe 800 or something. I know I've done well over 500 charges on my Pocket PC with a Li-polymer battery and its still going strong. :\

LethalWolfe
Nov 24, 2003, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by Nicky G
It is in violation of federal law to record a telephone conversation without making the other party aware of the fact beforehand.

It's beyond idiotic to break a federal law and then video yourself breaking another law (vandalism).

It's even dumber to break the above two laws and then publicly flaunt the fact on a website that is registered under your own name, address, and phone number.

'Nuff said.


Well, not that I think they thought this far ahead, but you don't know if the person on the phone is an Apple rep or just an "actor" parroting what the Apple rep told these guys when they called. Also, the laws about taping phone conversations vary by state. For example, here in Indiana only one party needs to consent to the recording of the conversation for the act of recording the call to be legal.

If anything these guys could be sued for slander... libel (I always get those two mixed up)? That is assuming of course that their iPod battery problem was more of a fluke and less of a common experience. I also think that the because they made a specific claim (18 months battery life) that it would be easier to sue them than if they made a more general, subjective claim (iPod battery life blows). Of course I doubt Apple will sue them 'cause that will only make this thing more popular. In a month it will be just another internet memory.


Lethal

SiliconAddict
Nov 24, 2003, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Unfortunately Apple does not explain this and the vast majority of the world does not know how to extend the life of there batteries through maintenance. So in affect it is Apples fault for not educating there consumers.

*tongue in cheek* But I thought everything Apple makes was designed to be simple?

MacBandit
Nov 24, 2003, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Someone's been watching a few too many Target Market\Truth ads on TV :p

Seriously though. If I spent $500 on a device like this I'd expect better batt life. 500 charges isn't a whole heck of a lot. Maybe 800 or something. I know I've done well over 500 charges on my Pocket PC with a Li-polymer battery and its still going strong. :\

If he's left it plugged into a charger the entire time he's had it he probably cooked the battery 6 months after getting it. To maintain battery life in anything but a lead acid battery you need to exercise them by using them until depleted and recharging them. It they are kept at maximum charge all the time a user will soon find the battery doesn't have the capacity it once had.

MacBandit
Nov 24, 2003, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
*tongue in cheek* But I thought everything Apple makes was designed to be simple?

Sometimes too simple. Also Apples not perfect and they do sometimes make mistakes when it comes to customer needs and customer education.

Flowbee
Nov 24, 2003, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Too bad the guy failed to do some research before going to all this work to find out that there are replacement batteries on the market and instructions on how to do so.

Ahh... but then they wouldn't be getting all of this sweet attention! I expect their next video will feature them in iPod costumes shouting at passers-by with bullhorns in front of the Soho Apple Store.

Hmmm... that gives me an idea...

ethernet76
Nov 24, 2003, 07:38 PM
I usually drain the battery at least once a day. I'm not sure how long it lasts now, but I get about 4 hours I think (eq setting on, minimal HD usuage, sound check off, backlight off). It's a 5 gb that was a refurb that apple sent me when my scroll wheel got all loose and started moving when i walked. I've had it for about 4-5 months. Luckily, the scroll wheel on the refurb they sent me went all loose and they're going to probably just give me another refurb. So I figure every 90 days I'll just get an apple box and send it back because the scroll wheel just can't seem to stay stiff like when it comes.

MacBandit
Nov 24, 2003, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by ethernet76
I usually drain the battery at least once a day. I'm not sure how long it lasts now, but I get about 4 hours I think (eq setting on, minimal HD usuage, sound check off, backlight off). It's a 5 gb that was a refurb that apple sent me when my scroll wheel got all loose and started moving when i walked. I've had it for about 4-5 months. Luckily, the scroll wheel on the refurb they sent me went all loose and they're going to probably just give me another refurb. So I figure every 90 days I'll just get an apple box and send it back because the scroll wheel just can't seem to stay stiff like when it comes.

Since they haven't manufactured a 5gig in so long anyone you get will have a very old battery in it. Just letting a battery sit without use can be hard on a battery.

capacity
Nov 24, 2003, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by LethalWolfe
IIRC the iPod uses a Lithium-Ion battery. Those types of batteries do not develop "memories" so they do not need to be fully discharged before recharing. In fact quite the opposite is true. Fully discharing a Lithium-Ion battery could be harmful to the battery and manufacturers recommend frequent recharges to keep the battery level up as opposed to infrequent recharges and allowing the battery to drain all the way down.

Originally posted by MacBandit
To maintain battery life in anything but a lead acid battery you need to exercise them by using them until depleted and recharging them. It they are kept at maximum charge all the time a user will soon find the battery doesn't have the capacity it once had.

You guys seem to be saying two different things. Who's right on this issue?

Rower_CPU
Nov 24, 2003, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by capacity
You guys seem to be saying two different things. Who's right on this issue?

They both are. They're talking about different battery technologies.

MacBandit
Nov 24, 2003, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by capacity
You guys seem to be saying two different things. Who's right on this issue?

As Rower said we're talking about different battery technologies. I'm talking about NiCd, NiMh and the other common battery types. LIon is a fairly new battery type that indeed doesn't need to be drained. BUT, do not leave it plugged in all the time. All batteries when being charged or used go through a chemical reaction this is how they work. If the battery is being charged all the time this chemical reaction goes on until there is nothing left to react with. Even a smart charger that uses a float charge only maintaining a level of charge with a very small current will eventually cook the battery.

the_mole1314
Nov 24, 2003, 09:24 PM
Funny......

if released a month ago. :o

theipodgod16
Nov 25, 2003, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by LethalWolfe
IIRC the iPod uses a Lithium-Ion battery. Those types of batteries do not develop "memories" so they do not need to be fully discharged before recharing. In fact quite the opposite is true. Fully discharing a Lithium-Ion battery could be harmful to the battery and manufacturers recommend frequent recharges to keep the battery level up as opposed to infrequent recharges and allowing the battery to drain all the way down.

Laslo Panaflex, no offense but I'm calling BS. I don't believe that a 10 year-old battery that gets regular use in your video camera has not lost any recharge ability at all? If Sony could make a battery that had a 10 year lifespan w/o losing any of it's capacity they would own the battery market.


Lethal



actually, the 1st and 2nd gen ipods used a battery made by sony. Kinda ironic.

LethalWolfe
Nov 25, 2003, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
As Rower said we're talking about different battery technologies. I'm talking about NiCd, NiMh and the other common battery types. LIon is a fairly new battery type that indeed doesn't need to be drained. BUT, do not leave it plugged in all the time. All batteries when being charged or used go through a chemical reaction this is how they work. If the battery is being charged all the time this chemical reaction goes on until there is nothing left to react with. Even a smart charger that uses a float charge only maintaining a level of charge with a very small current will eventually cook the battery.


Correct, I didn't mean to imply that a LIon batt should always be charging when not in use. Both my PDA and my digital camera us LIon batteries. My PDA I usually charge when it gets down to 50% or so (usually if I wait much longer I'll run out of batt life at the worst of times) and my camera I charge every few days unless I see the "low batt" warning (which seems to come w/about 1/3 batt life left).


Lethal

EDIT: The manual that came w/my camera (Canon S50) specifically warned against charging the battery for more than 24hrs.

MacBandit
Nov 25, 2003, 01:59 AM
Originally posted by LethalWolfe
Correct, I didn't mean to imply that a LIon batt should always be charging when not in use. Both my PDA and my digital camera us LIon batteries. My PDA I usually charge when it gets down to 50% or so (usually if I wait much longer I'll run out of batt life at the worst of times) and my camera I charge every few days unless I see the "low batt" warning (which seems to come w/about 1/3 batt life left).


Lethal

EDIT: The manual that came w/my camera (Canon S50) specifically warned against charging the battery for more than 24hrs.

My Canon S230 will not discharge the battery completely. It will tell you the battery needs replaced and shutdown. They're built that way on purpose to save the battery.

oldschool
Nov 25, 2003, 03:06 AM
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Someone's been watching a few too many Target Market\Truth ads on TV :p

Seriously though. If I spent $500 on a device like this I'd expect better batt life. 500 charges isn't a whole heck of a lot. Maybe 800 or something. I know I've done well over 500 charges on my Pocket PC with a Li-polymer battery and its still going strong. :\

Its not five hundred charges, its five hundred cycles: full discharge then full charge. This is why you shouldn't discharge the battery every time.

arn
Nov 25, 2003, 03:57 AM
here's the song from the video, if anyone's interested

http://www.dailytunes.com/songs/20031125023148.html

arn

Mudbug
Nov 25, 2003, 11:33 AM
did anyone happen to d/l the video? I didn't get to see it, and it seems to have been pulled now...

plinkoman
Nov 25, 2003, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by imaswitcheryeah
It's all ways a good rule of thumb to try and use up as much of the battery before recharging to get the most life out of rechargeable batteries.

actually, no, thats a bad idea, that only benifits the old nickel hydrate batteries, with litium batteries, its better to charge before it is fully discharged, a full discharge shortens battery life on a lithium battery

Dahl
Nov 26, 2003, 02:18 AM
Originally posted by Mudbug
did anyone happen to d/l the video? I didn't get to see it, and it seems to have been pulled now...
I want to see it too, but it's down.
Anyways... Don't you guys think it's possible that Apple will work hard on making the batteries better for the next iPods ? Especially since the iDull is here now.

Giaguara
Nov 26, 2003, 11:27 AM
well, can't see the page but...

my bf's ipod's battery died during the warranty. so get got the unit replaced.

my ibook's battery died during warranty. idem. well, got the new battery.


well, my ipod still lasts longer than the 3rd gen ones.

celaurie
Nov 28, 2003, 02:30 AM
In a totally different, but similar thread... (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49244)

Mudbug
Nov 28, 2003, 02:36 AM
I just happened to go back to it tonight - and it appears the video has been posted again. just fyi. :)

MacBandit
Nov 28, 2003, 11:12 AM
I just read the update on who was hosting it and why it was up and down and the whole thing.

The guy offered to host it for free as long as they made available the links to Apples new battery replacement program for $99 and the 3rd party replacements that cost even less.

Well they said they would do that but then strung the guy along for a while then after he pulled it back offline they let him know that they had no intention of putting those links up. There reasoning was that it would make it confusing since their video states Apples replacement cost is $200.

So basically all they want to do is lie.