3G iPhone to Support 42Mbps Evolved HSPA?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

At this point, it seems obvious that the next version of the iPhone will support 3G technology, allowing for faster download speeds than the current iPhone EDGE network. Specifically, the 3G-capable iPhone will reportedly support a protocol known as HSPA. AT&T just announced (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/05/21/atandt-to-complete-3g-rollout-by-june/) that they will be completing their HSPA deployment by June, in time for the rumored 3G iPhone launch.

HSPA comes in a variety of speeds, however, and AT&T's implementation is said to offer 1.4 Mbps (~175KB/s) download and 800Kbps (100KB/s) upload speeds when complete. A newer version of HSPA called Evolved HSPA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolved_HSPA), however, promises speeds of 42 Mbps (~5250KB/s).

Channelnews.com.au claims (http://www.channelnews.com.au/Portable_Devices/Music_Download_Sites/U2E5C8A3) that the new iPhone will indeed be able to support these network speeds on Australia's Telstra network. According to a senior executive of Telstra:We know what is coming we have seen the new device and it will be available on our network as soon as it is launched in the USA. By Xmas this phone will be capable of 42mbs which will make it faster than a lot of broadband offerings and the fastest iPhone on any network in the world
Apple is rumored to launch the 3G-capable iPhone on June 9th at the Worldwide Developer Conference.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/05/23/3g-iphone-to-support-42mbps-evolved-hspda/)

[ppc_michael]

That's great! Sounds like they're taking the iPhone's biggest weakness and making it its biggest strength.

(At the same time, it demonstrates once again how far behind the US is in mobile services.)

[M. Malone]

This is GREAT! So are we stuck with the new iphone for years to come? I would love that :D

[yvonnejim]

Just to get a feel for how fast this is, what is the download and upload speeds when using EDGE ??

[jlanuez]

I just hope my new iPhone will make telephone calls. :D
Currently, it drops call, can not connect to the AT&T network to even get a signal, calls go right to voice mail, on & on...
As it is right now - it is the worst "cell phone" I have ever had.

[swingerofbirch]

Whoa..way faster than my DSL! That would be great for video conferencing and streaming high quality video (TV?).

[clancemasterj]

That's faster than my DSL connection.

swingerofbirch: you beat me to it!

[ubestbsteppin]

I just hope my new iPhone will make telephone calls. :D
Currently, it drops call, can not connect to the AT&T network to even get a signal, calls go right to voice mail, on & on...
As it is right now - it is the worst "cell phone" I have ever had.

Wow, does the ATT coverage map say you have coverage in your area?

Anyway, anything better than HSPA is just a bonus at this point. Can't wait!

[arn]

Just to get a feel for how fast this is, what is the download and upload speeds when using EDGE ??

I think EDGE has a theoretical max of 200kbps/s (25 KB/s). But actual speeds seem to be about half that.

edit: someone later down said 473,6kbit/sec is the theoretical max.

arn

[Zwhaler]

This would be truly groundbreaking, I hope we get it!

[amac4me]

Such speeds in the US won't be available for some time.

[BiikeMike]

So, I'm real excited about the new iPhone, but.... The front page IS getting a little ridiculous ;)

[wuha]

Just to get a feel for how fast this is, what is the download and upload speeds when using EDGE ??

Theoretically the maximum speed with EDGE is 473,6kbit/sec, which you have to split in an up- and an downloadchannel. (using EDGE one timeslot can have a bandwith up to 59,2 kbit/sec in one direction. The maximum is 8 slots, which you have to spilt in up/downstream)

[Shasterball]

Hello speed! Bye bye battery!

[forcenine]

Telstra can piss off. Their NextG network is terribly buggy, and their plans are absolute rubbish. You guys over in the US think your data plans are bad- check out www.telstra.com and check back after your jaw drops to the floor.

Telstra can go die, please. So glad Apple are giving the phone to every telco in Australia, rather than just the one that has a monopoly.

[xwk88]

42Mbps thats blazing fast...... The cable companies here are boasting their highspeed 10mbps service...... Would we be able to use the iphone as a modem to connect a laptop to the net at 3g speeds..... As for the us mobile data service it is out dated..... Bu at least verizon is doing something about the fixed service i am eagerly waiting for fios to come by my place so i can say good bye to cable and start getting their 30 mbps service....... Now that must be very fast.......

[TonyHoyle]

Is there a shipping (in volume) chipset that supports this speed? As far as I know there isn't. The SGOLD3H certainly doesn't support it (it can't even do 14.4 - it's limited to 7.2). Without the chipset this aint gonna happen on the current model at least. A future iphone will probably support LTE and HSPA+ in a few years when there's a network to support it - maybe that's what the exec is referring to.

Plus it's doubtful you could write to flash that fast anyway..the iphones wifi is similarly limited.

[mrrory]

That would be monstrously cool!

[arn]

Is there a shipping (in volume) chipset that supports this speed? As far as I know there isn't. The SGOLD3H certainly doesn't support it (it can't even do 14.4 - it's limited to 7.2).

I don't know if there is a chipset that supports it well, but the SGOLD3H is not necessarily the chip in the 3G iphone. The SGOLD reference in the sdk was for the SGOLD3 (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/04/09/3g-chipset-reference-in-the-sdk-maybe-maybe-not/), not SGOLD3H. So it probably didn't mean anything.

arn

[ShooMoe]

So.. will the 3G make it easier to receive calls or will AT&T iphone service in my area still SUCK.. I constantly drop calls.. I agree.. Nice toy but worst phone I have ever had... :confused:

[iCantwait]

ignoring what forcenine said, i think now is the best time to yell...

AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE





just waiting for the reply now

[TonyHoyle]

I don't know if there is a chipset that supports it well, but the SGOLD3H is not necessarily the chip in the 3G iphone. The SGOLD reference in the sdk was for the SGOLD3 (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/04/09/3g-chipset-reference-in-the-sdk-maybe-maybe-not/), not SGOLD3H. So it probably didn't mean anything.

arn

It would make sense to stick with the same manufacturer so you don't have to interface with a completely new hardware/software combination - but whether or not they use the SGOLD3H unless someone can point to an HSPA+ compatible chipset that was released sometime last year and in volume now (to cover the iphone development/release times) then this looks very doubtful.

[gmoney550]

Is evolved hspa faster than wifi? And if it is can you tell me how much?

[klagermkii]

This isn't going to happen, there are no other phones out there with support for HSPA+ neither are the networks ready for HSPA+. Safari and the CPU on the iPhone isn't even fast enough to take full advantage of 7.2Mbps HSDPA, let alone HSPA+. Right now the only use of HSPA+ would be to use it on your laptop via the iPhone, and we haven't heard about any improved support for tethering.

[bacaramac]

I don't know, did anyone hear about he C2D Processor in the MBA before it came out? Apple for some reason seems to get things before the world knows about it. Could be the same situation here.

[nagromme]

More bandwidth is great--especially for receiving video--but as I understand it, browsing speed is also VERY dependent on processing speed.

The iPhone is fast for a phone (and may be about to get faster for all we know) but it's still slow compared to a modern computer. Memory of course is tighter too. (But thanks to flash, drive space for caching is fast!)

So we should not expect to see pages render as fast on an iPhone as on your Mac, just because you have an optimal 3G signal.

Much like you'd expect an older/slower computer to browse less quickly than a fast new one, on the same connection.

[TonyHoyle]

Is evolved hspa faster than wifi? And if it is can you tell me how much?

HSPA+ is currently specced to 28.8Mbps, with 42Mbps expected by 2010 according to the specs I've found.

On an iphone you probably wouldn't see a difference - flash write cycles and limited CPU speed mean that you'd never get that kind of throughput out of it anyway (max. for wifi for the iphone is apparently 1.8Mbps but I haven't found any apple source that verifies that - although http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2007/07/04/test-your-iphone-network-speed/ has an average wifi speed of a little over 1Mbps)

[stagi]

That would be great! I hope they release some nice new features to take advantage of this faster speed :)

[PoitNarf]

Is evolved hspa faster than wifi? And if it is can you tell me how much?

It depends which 802.11 protocol you're talking about. If this evolved HSPA is capable of 42Mbps, then it would be certainly faster than 802.11b which maxes out at 11Mbps. 802.11g has a max speed of 54Mbps and 802.11n's max speed is 248Mbps. All these max speeds are theoretical though, you'll never see them in real world conditions.

[Santa Rosa]

This chip definitely fits the bill. Posted about it on the other thread, which maybe should be merged.

It has everything required and rumored about apart from WiFi on the chip. Although their other chips are stated as being WiFi enabled.

Its speculative but I think that the chip fits the bill quite nicely:

ARM11 applications processor running at up to 600MHz
· Support for 5 megapixel camera, VGA display resolution and TV-out
· Support for third-party operating systems such as Windows Mobile and Linux
· 45 nm CMOS process technology
· 2D and 3D hardware-accelerated graphics
· Fully integrated GPS, FM radio and Bluetooth, eliminating the need for many external components
· Integrated support for worldwide cellular frequency bands

- For CDMA2000: 450MHz, 700MHz, 800MHz, J-800MHz, 850MHz, 1500MHz, AWS, KPCS 1.8GHz, 1.9GHz, 2.1GHz, 2.5GHz
- For UMTS: 700MHz, 800MHz, 850MHz, 900MHz, 1500MHz, AWS, 1800MHz, 1900MHz, 2.1MHz, 2.6GHz
- 4-band EGPRS support in 900MHz, 1800MHz, 850MHz, 1900MHz

Link about it is here (http://www.qualcomm.com/press/releases/2007/071113_Qualcomm_Introduces_Single_Chip.html)

The press release was from last November, which also puts it in a reasonable time slot I would guess.

EDIT: Darn, scrap above comment just noticed this on the page:

The QSC solutions are scheduled to sample in the fourth quarter of 2008.

Unless Apple have managed something big with them...

[Small White Car]

Is evolved hspa faster than wifi? And if it is can you tell me how much?

Can't really answer that. Wi-fi (generally) ranges from 20 - 100 Mbps depending on a lot of factors, but your average broadband connection in the U.S. (cable, DSL) is slower than most wi-fi connections.

So the wi-fi in your house may be fast, but your connection to the internet is something less than that.

The point I'm making is, it's pretty much impossible for me to tell you how much slower or faster this would be than your own internet connection.

[mr_matalino]

So why isn't ATT doing this in the US? We're AMERICA!! And the ausssies are going to beat us?

[TonyHoyle]

.

[samh004]

Telstra's CEO is an American who seems to have a passion for hating Apple, when the iPhone first made it's debut he's dismissed it and didn't seem at all interested.

Add to this the fact that Vodafone and Optus announced they'd be officially supporting the iPhone in Australia... not Telstra. So why would Telstra know anything?

And of course, if they did know something, why on earth would they risk spoiling relations when they know what happens when companies speak prematurely of future products.

[Small White Car]

So why isn't ATT doing this in the US? We're AMERICA!! And the ausssies are going to beat us?

If you hadn't noticed, just about EVERYONE beats us when it comes to network connections.

I'd sure feel bad for the aussies if they couldn't manage to beat our terrible standards.

[kornyboy]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)

That is blazing fast for cellular Internet.

[rtdunham]

I just hope my new iPhone will make telephone calls. :D
Currently, it drops call, can not connect to the AT&T network to even get a signal, calls go right to voice mail, on & on...
As it is right now - it is the worst "cell phone" I have ever had.

Either you have a defective phone, or you're in a bad signal area.

I divide my time between Kentucky (greater Cincinnati) and Florida. In KY, i have a strong signal even in the basement of my 80-year-old brick-on-brick (double-thickness masonary) construction house, and service is great in surrounding areas. In FLA, on the other hand, i can't conduct a hand-held call anywhere in my block and frame-construction townhouse, or immediately outside, even though ATTs service map indicates i'm in a "best" signal strength area. The phone works ok elsewhere in St. Petersburg. The local ATT office acknowledges I'm in a bad signal area where one of their prior managers' phones wouldn't work. (I've found if i leave the phone immobile on the kitchen counter and use it via bluetooth headset, i can conduct calls fairly reliably.)

My frustration in FLA is compounded by the fact that not far away there's one of ATTs billboards proclaiming "more bars, more places". Argghhh.

My point is, if I'd judged the phone solely by my FLA experience, I'd conclude, reasonably I think, that it was a crappy phone. Having used it in a second location with very different results, I've concluded, rightly I think, that it's crappy ATT service (the problem's been reported to ATT customer service at monthly intervals for the past six months, they say they're trying to re-direct a tower, but nothing improves).

Ironically, "Locate Me" works precisely at my Florida home, and 150 feet in any direction from my KY home. But in my KY home or in the yard there, it "locates" me one county, three cities, and four miles from my actual location, with or without wi-fi turned on. I've sniffed surrounding routers and reported their MAC addresses to Skyhook, but after more than a month Locate Me still doesn't work at my house. Baffling!

I'd suggest you contact ATT and see if they can fix your local signal better than they've done for me.

ATT's purported coverage map: http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/

[Santa Rosa]

.

Like how you just made your comment dissapear there to a full stop when you realised you had made an absoultely ridiculous post.

Cant you just admit you made a ridiculous mistake and edit it like I did. I noticed now that the chip I said isnt even available after reading more closely.

Didnt just erase my comment.

[FullGaz]

3G is good, but not quite enough to get me excited.
However, I'm very impatient to see if the new iPhone has GPS and another camera for video chat!
Not including these items would mean that it would be lagging behind the new generation from the competition, such as Nokia N96 (not as nice, but some people are not Apple fans!) It would be a shame...

[bacaramac]

Even if the iPhone cannot handle the throughput of the new service, I would think it would atleast keep the input stream maxed out for phone. I think it is better to keep the data coming faster then the phone could handle vs. having a phone that can handle more then what is coming. My guess is it would help in those areas where signal is weaker around town, but you could still get very fast data since the network can push a lot more.

As an example, full signal can push 42Mps, but a weaker may only push 7Mbps, but you wouldn't be able to tell the difference since the device can only process say 5Mbps. Is this how this could work?

[iCantwait]

So why isn't ATT doing this in the US? We're AMERICA!! And the ausssies are going to beat us?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, cue the racial slurs.
I Love Australia.

USA is not all that great for networks in the world. Australia has the largest and fastest network in the world (next G), dont be to ashamed, we rock down here

[TonyHoyle]

Like how you just made your comment dissapear there to a full stop when you realised you had made an absoultely ridiculous post.

Cant you just admit you made a ridiculous mistake and edit it like I did. I noticed now that the chip I said isnt even available after reading more closely.

Didnt just erase my comment.

It wasn't ridiculous - it was a post about no mention of support for GSM, EDGE, etc. but since I noticed the release date was going to edit the post to mention that instead, but you got there first.

It appears to be based on CDMA, not GSM - so wouldn't be on an iphone anyway. Not surprising as it's qualcomm. (apple could produce a CDMA phone for the US market if they thought there was enough money in it, but they've shown no signs of it so far).

[chuckiej]

Such speeds in the US won't be available for some time.

That was my first thought when I saw this. We get faster speeds... the rest of the world gets even faster.

[klagermkii]

I don't know, did anyone hear about he C2D Processor in the MBA before it came out? Apple for some reason seems to get things before the world knows about it. Could be the same situation here.

They need an awful lot of unreleased technology to make this useful. They'd need this unreleased HSPA+ chip, which has to have better performance than anything on the market AND have low power consumption (it's hard enough just to find low power 3G chips).

Then they need to have a processor which is 5-10x faster but without any major increase in battery consumption, just to begin to make full use of the bandwidth increase over EDGE. This is 186x faster than EDGE!

[Santa Rosa]

It wasn't ridiculous - it was a post about no mention of support for GSM, EDGE, etc. but since I noticed the release date was going to edit the post to mention that instead, but you got there first.

It appears to be based on CDMA, not GSM - so wouldn't be on an iphone anyway. Not surprising as it's qualcomm. (apple could produce a CDMA phone for the US market if they thought there was enough money in it, but they've shown no signs of it so far).

If your post wasnt ridiculous, why did you delete it. Stop digging yourself further.

Have a look here as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolved_HSPA

My understanding on the subject isnt great I admit, but yours is plain non existent

[zync]

Either you have a defective phone, or you're in a bad signal area.

I divide my time between Kentucky (greater Cincinnati) and Florida. In KY, i have a strong signal even in the basement of my 80-year-old brick-on-brick (double-thickness masonary) construction house, and service is great in surrounding areas. In FLA, on the other hand, i can't conduct a hand-held call anywhere in my block and frame-construction townhouse, or immediately outside, even though ATTs service map indicates i'm in a "best" signal strength area. The phone works ok elsewhere in St. Petersburg. The local ATT office acknowledges I'm in a bad signal area where one of their prior managers' phones wouldn't work. (I've found if i leave the phone immobile on the kitchen counter and use it via bluetooth headset, i can conduct calls fairly reliably.)

My frustration in FLA is compounded by the fact that not far away there's one of ATTs billboards proclaiming "more bars, more places". Argghhh.

My point is, if I'd judged the phone solely by my FLA experience, I'd conclude, reasonably I think, that it was a crappy phone. Having used it in a second location with very different results, I've concluded, rightly I think, that it's crappy ATT service (the problem's been reported to ATT customer service at monthly intervals for the past six months, they say they're trying to re-direct a tower, but nothing improves).

Ironically, "Locate Me" works precisely at my Florida home, and 150 feet in any direction from my KY home. But in my KY home or in the yard there, it "locates" me one county, three cities, and four miles from my actual location, with or without wi-fi turned on. I've sniffed surrounding routers and reported their MAC addresses to Skyhook, but after more than a month Locate Me still doesn't work at my house. Baffling!

I'd suggest you contact ATT and see if they can fix your local signal better than they've done for me.

ATT's purported coverage map: http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/

Maybe you're just unlucky in St. Petersburg. I get excellent signal in Tampa. My only problem is at work, but I work in an interior office in Centro Ybor. Our office is under a theatre and the entire building is brick. Only CDMA phones get signals in here because CDMA passes through buildings better. In the front offices, my signal is excellent and at my house it's even better.

[TonyHoyle]

If your post wasnt ridiculous, why did you delete it. Stop digging yourself further.


It wasn't relevant any more... I already told you exactly what was in the post.

Why are you so bothered by this? You quoted a press release and got tripped up by it.. it's no biggie and happens all the time. Chill out.

btw. that wikipedia article isn't particularly helpful unless you're into reading technical documents..

[bmh16]

Bit confused, is this for a particular country/s? Will these speeds be achievable in the UK?

[Rocketman]

So does this legitimately qualify as "insanely great"?

Rocketman

[Santa Rosa]

It wasn't relevant any more... I already told you exactly what was in the post.

So why didn't you just put an EDIT and they say that, instead of trying to hide something?? :confused:

Why are you so bothered by this? You quoted a press release and got tripped up by it.. it's no biggie and happens all the time. Chill out.

Dont try and swing it my direction, at least I have the balls to admit Im wrong. You had a go at me first, with your now deleted post.

btw. that wikipedia article isn't particularly helpful unless you're into reading technical documents..

So why are you trying to make a technical analysis??

[andyinboca]

I have a 8 gig iphone and everyone keeps talking about all of these new features and updates, but what about the picture mail ??? Even my garbage old $ 40 could receive picture mail. Can anyone tell me why a $400 iphone can't ? Trying to look at some multimedia message on the AT&T website takes forever. Besides all of the hidden super features we are wishing for in the next iPHONE I wish they would just let you look at picture mail in the texts ( I know just let them send the pic to the email, and then look it on the phone ) But I still say an expensive phone with a camera should be able to get picture mail if every little junk phone can get it. This would be a nice easy thing to fix.

[Anonymous Freak]

This isn't going to happen, there are no other phones out there with support for HSPA+ neither are the networks ready for HSPA+. Safari and the CPU on the iPhone isn't even fast enough to take full advantage of 7.2Mbps HSDPA, let alone HSPA+. Right now the only use of HSPA+ would be to use it on your laptop via the iPhone, and we haven't heard about any improved support for tethering.

DING DING DING! We have a winner!

Thanks for saying this. Yes, as anyone with a fast internet connection can show, the iPhone can't even handle faster than about 7 Mbps over Wi-Fi, so there is no way the iPhone itself could take advantage of E-HSPA. Unless Apple updates the processor, of course. Which I doubt they will do, simply because there are no computationally-faster chips available that draw the same or less power.

For example, right now, my computer benchmarks 20 Mbps with 40 ms latency over Wi-Fi to cable broadband using a 'desktop (http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/)' speed test. To an iPhone-compatible speed test (http://i.dslr.net/tinyspeedtest.html), it gets 10 Mbps/about 100 ms. My iPhone, over the same Wi-Fi connection, benchmarks 4.4 Mbps with 250 ms latency. Over EDGE, I get about 50 Kbps, 900-3000 ms latency. (Although I have a pretty crappy ("two bars") signal right here, so the 3000 ms latency spikes might just be due to my reception.)

The big thing is that, just like EDGE, HSDPA and E-HSPA both have pretty high latency. So while good, it's still not a perfect replacement for conventional fixed-point broadband. Now, if they add tethering, and the iPhone is designed so that tethered, it's CPU isn't a bottleneck, then the higher speed might actually matter.

As it is now, though, the iPhone processor is barely capable of sustaining 4.5 Mbps, which is still plenty fast for any conceivable streaming video, both directions. For example, Apple encodes 640x480 movies at 1.5 Mbps, so moving to HSDPA would be enough to stream full-screen-size video with no problems. And, heck, AppleTV-encoded 1280x720 video is only 5 Mbps, so there is no major reason to need more than that, since the iPhone can't even handle decoding that video. (Or have the ability to display anywhere close to it.)

Unless E-HSPA can increase battery life, I can't see Apple including it at all. (Which it might actually do. Since the iPhone can't handle its top speed, it may be able to do power cycling to reduce power draw, just like how Bluetooth 2.0+EDR saves battery BECAUSE its faster.)

[TonyHoyle]

Bit confused, is this for a particular country/s? Will these speeds be achievable in the UK?

AFAIK the current 3G plans are 7.2Mbps this year/next year (it's reasonable to expect that we'll get 14.4 over time in cities at least). You never know though - depends if they think there's money in it...

[Anonymous Freak]

I have a 8 gig iphone and everyone keeps talking about all of these new features and updates, but what about the picture mail ??? Even my garbage old $ 40 could receive picture mail. Can anyone tell me why a $400 iphone can't ? Trying to look at some multimedia message on the AT&T website takes forever. Besides all of the hidden super features we are wishing for in the next iPHONE I wish they would just let you look at picture mail in the texts ( I know just let them send the pic to the email, and then look it on the phone ) But I still say an expensive phone with a camera should be able to get picture mail if every little junk phone can get it. This would be a nice easy thing to fix.

"Picture Mail"? You mean MMS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_Messaging_Service)? If you mean MMS, then yeah, it is kind of dopey that the iPhone doesn't support it. But the iPhone does support full rich-text-with-multimedia E-mail. Which should more thank make up for it. (I say "should", even I don't think it fully makes up for it.)

Personally I really want an up-front low-resolution camera for real two-way video conferencing. Both between iPhones over the mobile network, as well as iChat compatible.

[TonyHoyle]

Dont try and swing it my direction, at least I have the balls to admit Im wrong. You had a go at me first, with your now deleted post.


WTF? I just said that there was no mention of the other standards so the chip didn't look like a likely candidate. How is that having a go?

Like I said. Chill out.

[gnasher729]

So why isn't ATT doing this in the US? We're AMERICA!! And the ausssies are going to beat us?

Remember that transferring data costs money. At the moment, ATT is offering unlimited data plan in the USA, but only because Edge is slow enough that even if you use as much data as possible, it won't cost them too much.

With 42 MBit/second, you won't get an unlimited data plan. You may try to download two 500 MByte videos, and after three minutes and twenty seconds when the videos are downloaded, your data quota for the month is gone.

[DavidLeblond]

But the iPhone does support full rich-text-with-multimedia E-mail. Which should more thank make up for it. (I say "should", even I don't think it fully makes up for it.)

It makes up for it unless you wish to send or receive a picture from anyone that doesn't have an iPhone. Which is ... just about everyone I know.

There is no reason the iPhone can't do this, it can't be that hard to engineer... Apple just doesn't WANT to do it.

$10 says the next iPhone still won't MMS.

[zync]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, cue the racial slurs.
I Love Australia.

USA is not all that great for networks in the world. Australia has the largest and fastest network in the world (next G), dont be to ashamed, we rock down here

Not to bash you guys too much (I love Australia), but you should have a better network considering that Australia is smaller and less populated than the U.S. Smaller by over two million kilometers and about 283 million people. Most of our people live along the coasts, but a good amount of our population is in the interior. Most of your population lives along one coast—and in particular mostly the southeast—and there's a scant few in the interior.

[TonyHoyle]

It makes up for it unless you wish to send or receive a picture from anyone that doesn't have an iPhone. Which is ... just about everyone I know.

There is no reason the iPhone can't do this, it can't be that hard to engineer... Apple just doesn't WANT to do it.

$10 says the next iPhone still won't MMS.

Saw a rather cool portable bluetooth printer the other day - you BT the picture from your phone to it and it prints out a hardcopy for you. The first thing that crossed my mind was 'pity that will never work with the iphone'.. which is a bit sad - since the whole BT thing is really only a software upgrade away.. shouldn't even need a new phone. I miss that (and Tethering, for which I carry a second phone around) more than MMS to be honest.

Video calling.. well.. every 3G phone for years in the UK has had it, and I've honestly never seen anyone actually use it. Although it would be cool to have I do wonder if apple look at the usage and don't bother.

[twoodcc]

wow, this sounds great! i hope it's true

[iCantwait]

Not to bash you guys too much (I love Australia), but you should have a better network considering that Australia is smaller and less populated than the U.S. Smaller by over two million kilometers and about 283 million people. Most of our people live along the coasts, but a good amount of our population is in the interior. Most of your population lives along one coast—and in particular mostly the southeast—and there's a scant few in the interior.

mmmm? still 98% service OZ wide is good, iWant iPhone

[dhines]

So, will there be 3G support in a software update? Or will I have to buy a new iphone altogether?

[Santa Rosa]

So, will there be 3G support in a software update? Or will I have to buy a new iphone altogether?

No, 3G support is hardware, not a software update. Get saving for the new one if you want 3G.

[happydude]

This isn't going to happen, there are no other phones out there with support for HSPA+ neither are the networks ready for HSPA+. Safari and the CPU on the iPhone isn't even fast enough to take full advantage of 7.2Mbps HSDPA, let alone HSPA+. Right now the only use of HSPA+ would be to use it on your laptop via the iPhone, and we haven't heard about any improved support for tethering.

yeah, could we get some tethering please?! we pay for the data plan, we should get the support!

[SirOmega]

I still have a hard time thinking AT&T would do this simply because they dont have the backhaul capacity at the tower to be supporting fast internet speeds, nevermind what the iPhone could support.

[retroneo]

Telstra's network is amazing, but considering that it's the only network to support 14.4Mbit HSPA now (it was enabled Feb 2007) and there are still no devices supporting this, I don't know if the iPhone will...

Telstra are doing the 28.8Mbit upgrade first and then the 42Mbit upgrade next year.

I would love the iPhone to show HSPA's full potential.

[pseudonymph]

So, will there be 3G support in a software update? Or will I have to buy a new iphone altogether?

new phone, the current iphone doesn't have a 3g radio

[Mr Maui]

So why isn't ATT doing this in the US? We're AMERICA!! And the ausssies are going to beat us?

GET OVER IT!!! I'm American ... and proud of it! However, America is not the best in the world at everything.

[Mr Maui]

DING DING DING!Thanks for saying this. Yes, as anyone with a fast internet connection can show, the iPhone can't even handle faster than about 7 Mbps over Wi-Fi, so there is no way the iPhone itself could take advantage of E-HSPA. Unless Apple updates the processor, of course. Which I doubt they will do, simply because there are no computationally-faster chips available that draw the same or less power.

Which is why Apple bought PA Semi, known for their incredible chip design on "low-power" chips.

[audioadrenaline]

I am so SICK of hearing about the iPhone! Since January of last year, MacRumors has EXCESSIVELY focused on the iPhone and left all other products screaming for attention. iPhone reports outnumber all other Apple products several times over. Just look at the MR front page and count iPhone stories vs. all others.

[megfilmworks]

So.. will the 3G make it easier to receive calls or will AT&T iphone service in my area still SUCK.. I constantly drop calls.. I agree.. Nice toy but worst phone I have ever had... :confused:

How can you blame a phone for living in a weak coverage area? :confused:

[srobert]

I am so SICK of hearing about the iPhone! Since January of last year, MacRumors has EXCESSIVELY focused on the iPhone and left all other products screaming for attention. iPhone reports outnumber all other Apple products several times over. Just look at the MR front page and count iPhone stories vs. all others.

MacRumors don't Create the news and rumors, they simply report what's out there, and at the moment, for better or for worse, its mostly an iPhone world.

P.S.: I'm also starving for desktop news/rumors. ^_^

[idannyb]

A bit more here on topic w links to previous Telstra rumors and "dissing" of iPhone. Count me in the skeptics group re iPhone on Telstra's Next G
http://idannyb.wordpress.com/2008/05/23/rumor-telstra-hints-at-joining-the-aussie-iphone-party/

[MacFly123]

I'm a little confused, what is the difference between these 42 Mbps (5250KB/s)???

I know the obvious answer of Megabits and Kilobits, I'm not stupid, but I just did a speed test of our internet here at my work on http://www.speedtest.net/ and it said download was "6161 kbps". So that would be about 50 Mbps right?

So how does that work when I am almost positive that at home I only get 3 Mbps with Quest but it is faster than at my work??? :confused:

Sorry, but can someone explain this to me a bit? lol

[megfilmworks]

$10 says the next iPhone still won't MMS.
MMS users are not the target buyers for the iPhone.
It is inferior in every way to email.
Lower res and you get charged for it.
This feature is for low cost phones with no email owned by mostly teenagers.

[sassenach74]

I am so SICK of hearing about the iPhone! Since January of last year, MacRumors has EXCESSIVELY focused on the iPhone and left all other products screaming for attention. iPhone reports outnumber all other Apple products several times over. Just look at the MR front page and count iPhone stories vs. all others.


Could that be that there isn't a lot going on with other Apple products, which isn't the fault of MR, if you want to complain, go see Apple.
Nobody is forced to read anything on any website, you have complete control over your eyes, hands, mouse, keyboard....etc etc.

[nyquist11]

I would buy it if it has tethering and unlimited data. Then I would cancel my Internet:p I could actually save money-- if by chance they happened to roll it out in the us--- and did the impossible task of keeping the price the same.

[sassenach74]

MMS users are not the target buyers for the iPhone.
It is inferior in every way to email.
Lower res and you get charged for it.
This feature is for low cost phones with no email owned by mostly teenagers.

Your opinion.....I'm sure there are a fair few iPhone users who would disagree with you.

[megfilmworks]

Your opinion.....I'm sure there are a fair few iPhone users who would disagree with you.
Disagree with the fact that MMS is inferior or that there is not a great demand for this old, outdated feature? It seems the major complaint about not having MMS is that they can't send a lo res photo to a cheap phone.

[Brianstorm91]

Yeeeeeeeeeeeey iPhone.
I hate iPhone rumours.

[ruutiveijari]

HSPA comes in a variety of speeds, however, and AT&T's implementation is said to offer 1.4 Mbps (~175KB/s) download and 800Kbps (100KB/s) upload speeds when complete.
Is this the first HSPA capable network in USA? In Finland we have 2 Mbit/s HSUPA countrywide and that will increase to 5 Mbit/s by the end of summer. And that will increase quite a lot next year.

And unlimited data costs 9 euros/month.

[gri]

He said that "By Xmas this phone will be capable of 42mbs "

Now well... does that mean there will be yet ANOTHER iPhone out by Xmass or that the network will be capable to deliver those speeds at that time?

:eek::confused:

[gkarris]

Say hello to $39.99 extra for the HSPA data plan! :eek:

[AlphaAnt]

I am so SICK of hearing about the iPhone! Since January of last year, MacRumors has EXCESSIVELY focused on the iPhone and left all other products screaming for attention. iPhone reports outnumber all other Apple products several times over. Just look at the MR front page and count iPhone stories vs. all others.

I, on the other hand, am disappointed if I go a whole day of work and don't see a new iPhone rumor somewhere. One fewer thing to bring up around the ol' water cooler, so to speak.

[arn]

I'm a little confused, what is the difference between these 42 Mbps (5250KB/s)???

I know the obvious answer of Megabits and Kilobits, I'm not stupid, but I just did a speed test of our internet here at my work on http://www.speedtest.net/ and it said download was "6161 kbps". So that would be about 50 Mbps right?

So how does that work when I am almost positive that at home I only get 3 Mbps with Quest but it is faster than at my work??? :confused:

Sorry, but can someone explain this to me a bit? lol

Mbps = Megabits per second
KB/s = kilobytes per second

note the capital vs lowercase "B"

6161 kbps (kilobits/s) = 6.1 Mbps (megabits/s) = ~770 KBps (kiloBYTES/s)

arn

[tallyho]

Disagree with the fact that MMS is inferior or that there is not a great demand for this old, outdated feature? It seems the major complaint about not having MMS is that they can't send a lo res photo to a cheap phone.
Well, until Steve Jobs gives all my friends a free iPhone, don't you think it would make sense to support a standard feature of the mobile phones that most people own? If you don't want to use MMS, fine, but many would find it useful.

[dante@sisna.com]

I just hope my new iPhone will make telephone calls. :D
Currently, it drops call, can not connect to the AT&T network to even get a signal, calls go right to voice mail, on & on...
As it is right now - it is the worst "cell phone" I have ever had.

Not here, mine works fantastic as a cell phone. Best ever. Just my experience. Your mileage may vary.

[ShooMoe]

How can you blame a phone for living in a weak coverage area? :confused:

Good question..:rolleyes: not really blaming the phone... I guess im just curious will upgrading to a 3g phone make call reception any better? its just funny with verizon, the coverage is great.. and I am on the AT&T map... drive a half mile up the road or if I happen to be aligned properly with the powers that be I may get a call, but one false move.. :mad:

[MacFly123]

Mbps = Megabits per second
KB/s = kilobytes per second

note the capital vs lowercase "B"

6161 kbps (kilobits/s) = 6.1 Mbps (megabits/s) = ~770 KBps (kiloBYTES/s)

arn

So the iPhone will be 1.4 Mbps for now which is almost 5 times slower than my internet connection on my computer here at work right, or an average home internet connection??? Until AT&T beefs up their 3G to 7.2 Mbps next year, which will then finally be faster than most home internet connections and followed by 20 Mbps by 2010 which will be MUCH faster than the internet in our homes. Although the iPhone would be capable of 42 Mbps, AT&T has said they will only be capable of 20 Mbps with Evolved HSPA by 2010.

Is that all basically correct Arn? Thanks for the pointers :)

[megfilmworks]

Well, until Steve Jobs gives all my friends a free iPhone, don't you think it would make sense to support a standard feature of the mobile phones that most people own? If you don't want to use MMS, fine, but many would find it useful.
Not if it is an old feature that very few people use or want at the iPhone level. Growing pains as new tech takes over old tech.

[Anonymous Freak]

It makes up for it unless you wish to send or receive a picture from anyone that doesn't have an iPhone. Which is ... just about everyone I know.

There is no reason the iPhone can't do this, it can't be that hard to engineer... Apple just doesn't WANT to do it.

$10 says the next iPhone still won't MMS.

Every other picture phone I've had can email pictures as well as send them MMS. (Although I've only had three others; a Samsung, a Sony-Ericsson, and a Motorola.)

[megfilmworks]

I just hope my new iPhone will make telephone calls. :D
Currently, it drops call, can not connect to the AT&T network to even get a signal, calls go right to voice mail, on & on...
As it is right now - it is the worst "cell phone" I have ever had.

Check your serial number, you may have a fake. LOL
Or you are in a fringe area, no fault of the iPhone.
Otherwise you have a warranty issue.
Or could this just be FUD?

[gloss]

MMS users are not the target buyers for the iPhone.
It is inferior in every way to email.
Lower res and you get charged for it.
This feature is for low cost phones with no email owned by mostly teenagers.

It's also included for free in messaging plans and is a feature that even the cheapest freebie phones include, and one which would take absolutely minimal effort to include.

Luckily, I'm guessing that someone will create a third-party app to support it, as SwirlyMMS has done for Jailbroken iPhones.

[Anonymous Freak]

So the iPhone will be 1.4 Mbps for now which is almost 5 times slower than my internet connection on my computer here at work right, or an average home internet connection??? Until AT&T beefs up their 3G to 7.2 Mbps next year, which will then finally be faster than most home internet connections and followed by 20 Mbps by 2010 which will be MUCH faster than the internet in our homes. Although the iPhone would be capable of 42 Mbps, AT&T has said they will only be capable of 20 Mbps with Evolved HSPA by 2010.

Is that all basically correct Arn? Thanks for the pointers :)

No.

The general usage of data speed is in 'bits' per second. There are 8 bits in a byte. So while we refer to, for example, a floppy disk as "one point four megabytes capacity", we refer to DSL as "one point five megabits per second." In general, people use a lower-case 'b' for bits, and an upper-case 'B' for Bytes. Then we have "Mega" versus "Kilo". Kilo, in usual computer-speak means 1,024, while Mega means 1,048,576 (1024*1024.) Theoretically, both the K and M should be upper-case, as in SI prefixes, all greater-than-zero prefixes are upper-case, and all less-than-zero prefixes are lower-case. But in common usage, people often lower-case the K.

So, for example, my speed tests of my home cable connection show about 20 Mbps. This is Megabits per second. Or 20 times 1,048,576 bits per second. Or about 20,971,520 bits (ones and zeros) per second. If we convert this to the more commonly-used in storage terms "Bytes", then we divide by 8. So 20 Mbps is about 2.5 MBps. That means I can transfer the contents of a standard 1.4 MB floppy disk in a little over half a second.

Dial-up internet tops out at 56 Kbps. 56,000 bits per second. Not bytes. Current EDGE is about that same speed. HSDPA can reach theoretically 7.2 Mbps (bits, not bytes.) Or a little less than half my home internet connection. But, as you have mentioned, AT&T only lists about 1.4 Mbps. Which is about the same speed as your average DSL connection.

But, as another post of mine mentions, EDGE, HSDPA, and E-HSPA all have fairly high latency. While my cable internet has latency (ping times) of about 40 ms to most places in the US, my EDGE connection gets about 200-300 ms. Which is about the same as dial-up internet. From tests I have seen, HSDPA and E-HSPA are about equal to EDGE. So while the raw data transfer is fast, the latency is slow. This means that playing 'twich' shooter games would be difficult. (By comparison, the worst 'standard' type of broadband internet connection, as far as latency goes, is satellite, which suffers from the half second (500 ms) speed-of-light delay getting to geostationary orbit and back.)

[megfilmworks]

I'm guessing that someone will create a third-party app to support it, as SwirlyMMS has done for Jailbroken iPhones.

I think that is the best solution and I agree, there will be a few 3rd party MMS apps available very soon for the users who would like it.

[MacFly123]

No.

The general usage of data speed is in 'bits' per second. There are 8 bits in a byte. So while we refer to, for example, a floppy disk as "one point four megabytes capacity", we refer to DSL as "one point five megabits per second." In general, people use a lower-case 'b' for bits, and an upper-case 'B' for Bytes. Then we have "Mega" versus "Kilo". Kilo, in usual computer-speak means 1,024, while Mega means 1,048,576 (1024*1024.) Theoretically, both the K and M should be upper-case, as in SI prefixes, all greater-than-zero prefixes are upper-case, and all less-than-zero prefixes are lower-case. But in common usage, people often lower-case the K.

So, for example, my speed tests of my home cable connection show about 20 Mbps. This is Megabits per second. Or 20 times 1,048,576 bits per second. Or about 20,971,520 bits (ones and zeros) per second. If we convert this to the more commonly-used in storage terms "Bytes", then we divide by 8. So 20 Mbps is about 2.5 MBps. That means I can transfer the contents of a standard 1.4 MB floppy disk in a little over half a second.

Dial-up internet tops out at 56 Kbps. 56,000 bits per second. Not bytes. Current EDGE is about that same speed. HSDPA can reach theoretically 7.2 Mbps (bits, not bytes.) Or a little less than half my home internet connection. But, as you have mentioned, AT&T only lists about 1.4 Mbps. Which is about the same speed as your average DSL connection.

But, as another post of mine mentions, EDGE, HSDPA, and E-HSPA all have fairly high latency. While my cable internet has latency (ping times) of about 40 ms to most places in the US, my EDGE connection gets about 200-300 ms. Which is about the same as dial-up internet. From tests I have seen, HSDPA and E-HSPA are about equal to EDGE. So while the raw data transfer is fast, the latency is slow. This means that playing 'twich' shooter games would be difficult. (By comparison, the worst 'standard' type of broadband internet connection, as far as latency goes, is satellite, which suffers from the half second (500 ms) speed-of-light delay getting to geostationary orbit and back.)

Thanks for the help :) Cool yet depressing at the same time lol! The US really needs to actually become the technology leader we claim to be and play some serious catch up in national infrastructure! Come on WIMAX!

[tirerim]

How can you blame a phone for living in a weak coverage area? :confused:

Well, you could blame Apple for partnering with a phone company with a crappy network, and not letting people use the phone with other carriers. I don't know that Apple had much choice in the matter, nor do I know that T-Mobile (iIrc the only other GSM carrier in the U.S.) would be any better, but those limitations are still significant, are dependent on the phone even if they're not the phone's "fault", and are not the fault of the user.

(I don't have an iPhone myself, yet; one of the reasons I've been reluctant to get one is other folks' stories of AT&T's crappy coverage, and the fact that Verizon, as much as I hate them, seems to have a pretty good network for my purposes.)

[Dagless]

Heh, absolute overkill for my needs. I just want something around 2mbps (to match my home connection) and I'll be happy. But still it's great this tech might be in the next iPhone and probably very great for the people who'll use it!

Even here we only get HSDPA coverage in the city. Ho hum!

[m005e]

ignoring what forcenine said, i think now is the best time to yell...

AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE


just waiting for the reply now


OI! OI! OI!
Good Ol' Australia gets another mention :D

[zync]

I am so SICK of hearing about the iPhone! Since January of last year, MacRumors has EXCESSIVELY focused on the iPhone and left all other products screaming for attention. iPhone reports outnumber all other Apple products several times over. Just look at the MR front page and count iPhone stories vs. all others.

I'm even more sick of hearing about how people don't want to hear about the iPhone/any other product. Practice self-censorship. You don't have to read everything that is posted. And before you say anything about me doing likewise—this would normally apply to your comment as well, but when I'm already in the thread, I have to read everything to know what's going on.

I, on the other hand, am disappointed if I go a whole day of work and don't see a new iPhone rumor somewhere. One fewer thing to bring up around the ol' water cooler, so to speak.

Me too. There's a huge demand on these forums for them. I'm sad when nothing new comes out because that's less fodder to tide me over until they finally release the damn thing.

Well, until Steve Jobs gives all my friends a free iPhone, don't you think it would make sense to support a standard feature of the mobile phones that most people own? If you don't want to use MMS, fine, but many would find it useful.

Most phones can be sent a message through an email address that is roughly [phone number] @ [service's domain]. I don't know if pictures could be sent through there, but I don't really see why not. They'll receive it as a text message.

[megfilmworks]

(I don't have an iPhone myself, yet; one of the reasons I've been reluctant to get one is other folks' stories of AT&T's crappy coverage, and the fact that Verizon, as much as I hate them, seems to have a pretty good network for my purposes.)
Sounds like you bought in to the FUD and have wasted a year when you could have had a wonderful phone with great service.
Step up to the plate and find out the truth by buying one.

[zync]

I'm a little confused, what is the difference between these 42 Mbps (5250KB/s)???

I know the obvious answer of Megabits and Kilobits, I'm not stupid, but I just did a speed test of our internet here at my work on http://www.speedtest.net/ and it said download was "6161 kbps". So that would be about 50 Mbps right?

So how does that work when I am almost positive that at home I only get 3 Mbps with Quest but it is faster than at my work??? :confused:

Sorry, but can someone explain this to me a bit? lol

One megabit is 1024 kilobits. So, 42Mbps is 43008kbps. And if you want it in Megabytes or Kilobytes you need to divide by 8.

6161kbps is about 6Mbps.

[Chundles]

Not to bash you guys too much (I love Australia), but you should have a better network considering that Australia is smaller and less populated than the U.S. Smaller by over two million kilometers and about 283 million people.

Only smaller if you include Alaska. We're almost exactly the same size as the contiguous US.

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4301/ozusukmapuz9.gif

You're right about the population though.

Everyone seems to think this is great but nobody seems to realise we're talking about Telstra here. The greediest, most anti-competitive company ever.

Telstra are the reason we're stuck with monthly download limits in the hundreds of megabytes and still consider 512k to be broadband. They're awful.

[zync]

Theoretically, both the K and M should be upper-case, as in SI prefixes, all greater-than-zero prefixes are upper-case, and all less-than-zero prefixes are lower-case. But in common usage, people often lower-case the K.

I always thought that making the K lowercase was strange, but I do it myself so....

By the way, we're all forgetting the limiting factor here: servers. Most servers will give you a connection between 400-900K (50-113kbps connection). Unless you're downloading from multiple sources, or on a really fast direct connection with a server, you'll never even see 1MBbps. 3.6 or 7.2Mbps HSDPA is all we'll really need for a while. At least until we're able to do file transfers and the like with fast servers. For the most part, the slowness of the internet isn't due to our connection to it, but to all of the other slow connections that exist along the way.

[zync]

Only smaller if you include Alaska. We're almost exactly the same size as the contiguous US.

You're right about the population though.

I got my facts from wikipedia, which seem to be in line with those that Australia puts out. Australia is roughly 7.6 million kilometers and the US is roughly 9.6-9.8 million kilometers—depending on the source.

Alaska and Hawaii are considered in the US figure, but they're a part of the US. Your map includes Tasmania :) It's a part of Australia like Hawaii and Alaska are part of the US. :D

[Rocketman]

.

Not many avatars have goten my attention. Yours did.

Dr. Q needs an avatar archive.

Rocketman

[entropys]

There is something a bit whiffy about this report.

I don't think the NextG network that is being referred to will be capable of 42 Mbs until nearly Christmas 2009.

And has been pointed out, there is no currently available mobile chip for it. I think the earliest is third quarter 2008, which I would have thought doesn't make the grade for this model of the iphone.

And then this is Tel$tra, a extortionist company that is only upstaged in price gouging tricks by Rogers in Canada. Ask the Canucks.

As for the relative qualities of phone services in the US vs Australia, I would like to add a few comments:
1. Australia's terrestrial tele services really suck the big one compared with the US: we have download caps and broadband is considered 256 kps (hey, it's ADSL ain't it?). For example, Tel$tra's cheapest package is $29.95 for a 200mb monthly download at 256k, with additional Mb at 15 cents. It's cheapest ADSL2+ package is $59.95 for a generous (not) 600Mb. Tel$tra gets away with this as it was originally a government monopoly, and the competition has had difficulty getting traction once the market was opened up. It only switched on ADSL2 to try and hold off the competition in exchanges competitors were inserting DSLAMs.

The US has always had competition in the tele market, and so it has a better terrestrial network ad better terrestrial internet access..

2. Mobile. The US was first to develop cell networks, so all its companies have considerable investment in older tech, including tech that has become a dead end. nevertheless, the tele companies must recoup costs for this infrastructure. So new tech adoption is slower.

A decade ago in OZ, as the government-owned telstra was a monopoly, it didn't bother investing too much in mobile in the early days. With the opening of the market, and parallel privatization of Tel$tra, competitors could develop networks almost as fast as the monolith. It is also cheaper for competitors to develop mobile networks than terrestrial. End result: Tel$tra had to move faster on mobile than terrestrial in order to protect its market. But even here it was slower to move than some of its competitors, which is why we had a 3G network in the cities that was competitors', not Tel$tra , for several years. Telstra's NextG network only came on stream this year, and before that it was edge. Ironically, telstra dicks were claiming that edge was more than adequate and 3G was crap up until about two years ago.

You could say that the only reason Telstra has 3G now is because it was privatised and subject to competition, but strangely, there are a lot of romantics with a socialist bent who still believe Telstra should be government owned, which would somehow miraculously reduce prices.

[entropys]

Gizmodo has pretty well shot this rumour down (http://gizmodo.com/392995/telstra-execs-42mbps-iphone-claims-are-all-but-impossible)

While Telstra's network may reach that speed in 2009, his claim seems nothing but hot air and kangaroo dung, for a long list of reasons, starting with the iPhone's alleged baseband chip—the Infineon's S-GOLD3, which tops at 7.2Mbps.

There are no 14.4Mbps baseband chips commercially available in the market now—much less back when the new 3G iPhone development started
• In fact, there are no HDSPA-based mobile devices of any kind supporting more than 7.2Mbps at this point, and even those are still not common.
• Any 14.4Mbps mobile devices won't hit the market until 2009.
• 24 and 42Mbps mobile devices are, at this point, nothing but a hot fantasy that won't materialize until the next decade.

The 3G baseband chip most likely to be in the iPhone 3G is the Infineon S-Gold 3.
• The iPhone beta firmware code specifically mentions the Infineon S-GOLD 3.
• There have been multiple press and analysts' reports about Infineon getting the contract for the next version, continuing its relationship with Apple—right now the iPhone uses the Infineon S-GOLD 2 as its baseband chip.

The S-GOLD 3 tops at 7.2Mbps.

S-GOLD 3 Multimode - HSDPA, WCDMA, E-GPRS Baseband IC with embedded multimedia functions; launch in the market Q3 2007 HSDPA 7.2Mbps, WCDMA 384kbps class UL/DL & EDGE multislot class 12, including SAIC/DARP support
So yes, the Telstra network may support 14.4mbps devices, but most likely—and unless there were five million supersecret 42Mbps baseband chips that nobody knows about, hidden in an subaquatic lair in the Pacific—the iPhone 3G, already well into production ahead of its June 9 launch, will not support those speeds for a very long time to come.

In fact, I would not be surprised, given Telstra originally told apple to "stick to its knitting" and bagged out the iphone, that it doesn't even get a deal with Apple to sell it.

[iEdd]

I always thought that making the K lowercase was strange, but I do it myself so...

It's not strange, it's correct. See here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilo-) and here (http://www.bipm.org/en/si/si_brochure/chapter3/prefixes.html). ;)

Also notice that the 'k' to multiply by 1000 on many Casio calculators is lower case too. SI :)

[zync]

It's not strange, it's correct. See here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilo-) and here (http://www.bipm.org/en/si/si_brochure/chapter3/prefixes.html). ;)

Also notice that the 'k' to multiply by 1000 on many Casio calculators is lower case too. SI :)

Hmm. That might be why I never recall Kg instead of kg. I must have known it was correct and never thought about it. So naturally I continued it to computer units :)

In terms of SI Units, it doesn't make sense that it would be lowercase though, unless you consider that kilo- is generally the last sizable quantity that you'll experience or generally need to measure.

[Ironduke]

Only smaller if you include Alaska. We're almost exactly the same size as the contiguous US.

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4301/ozusukmapuz9.gif

You're right about the population though.

Everyone seems to think this is great but nobody seems to realise we're talking about Telstra here. The greediest, most anti-competitive company ever.

Telstra are the reason we're stuck with monthly download limits in the hundreds of megabytes and still consider 512k to be broadband. They're awful.

he he big up too beautiful britain who could believe we once had you both in our pockets including a third of the planet.
:cool:

[zync]

he he big up too beautiful britain who could believe we once had you both in our pockets including a third of the planet.
:cool:

Nice careful wording there. "Could believe," is quite apt. Without that, you're just plain wrong :)

I always wonder what it would be like if Britain's imperialism had occurred in this century and ended in the same way. I always come to the same conclusion. You guys would have had terrible PR. :D

[zync]

It's not strange, it's correct. See here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilo-) and here (http://www.bipm.org/en/si/si_brochure/chapter3/prefixes.html). ;)

Also notice that the 'k' to multiply by 1000 on many Casio calculators is lower case too. SI :)

Just read up on it a bit, and technically, according to SI, we're incorrect. There's technically a standard that you may have seen. Ki, Mi, Gi, etc. It's just that, well, no one uses it, and no one wants to.

By the way, why would you need to multiply by 1000 on a calculator? Or are we talking about the non graphing variety? Although I do think my TI-86 has that key. I checked. It doesn't.

[Ironduke]

Nice careful wording there. "Could believe," is quite apt. Without that, you're just plain wrong :)

I always wonder what it would be like if Britain's imperialism had occurred in this century and ended in the same way. I always come to the same conclusion. You guys would have had terrible PR. :D

trust you americans to get the timing wrong when going on a world tour;)

[zync]

trust you americans to get the timing wrong when going on a world tour;)

We don't take time for tea :D

[winterspan]

he he big up too beautiful britain who could believe we once had you both in our pockets including a third of the planet.
:cool:

Redcoats! ;)

[Syrus28]

Disagree with the fact that MMS is inferior or that there is not a great demand for this old, outdated feature? It seems the major complaint about not having MMS is that they can't send a lo res photo to a cheap phone.
No, the complaint is that the iPhone is literally the ONLY camera phone on the market that can't send or receive picture messages/MMS. On top of that, there is no video recording. This is a phone which has put such an emphasis on multimedia like music, video, internet and staying connected to the world , that cant even send a picture or video to most other cell phones in the world.

Such basic features missing, on supposedly such a revolutionary phones, is just plain stupid. And even worse, there is no sign that they are even coming.

[megfilmworks]

Such basic features missing, on supposedly such a revolutionary phones, is just plain stupid. And even worse, there is no sign that they are even coming.
I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for old features like MMS.
The iPhone is breaking new ground not retreading old.
You will get your MMS from the apps store, no need for everyone to have what they don't want or need.
And if Apple doesn't add video recording on this upgrade then you will may be able to buy that at the Apps store as well.

[louden]

Only smaller if you include Alaska. We're almost exactly the same size as the contiguous US.

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4301/ozusukmapuz9.gif

You're right about the population though.

Everyone seems to think this is great but nobody seems to realise we're talking about Telstra here. The greediest, most anti-competitive company ever.

Telstra are the reason we're stuck with monthly download limits in the hundreds of megabytes and still consider 512k to be broadband. They're awful.


Don't sell the American carriers too short! Hopefully a new 3G iPhone will encourage companies in America and Australia to move ahead to at least the technology of Finland, circa 2004.

[Syrus28]

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for old features like MMS.
The iPhone is breaking new ground not retreading old.
You will get your MMS from the apps store, no need for everyone to have what they don't want or need.
And if Apple doesn't add video recording on this upgrade then you will may be able to buy that at the Apps store as well.

Where are you getting this "MMS = outdated" deal? MMS is more popular than ever, along with SMS. EVERY camera phone on the market can send MMS, why not the $400/$500 iPhone? I mean, when I spend half a grand on a phone, I expect it to do everything my cheap-o LG chocolate can do and more. If not an exact match for match in features, I want to at least have a viable alternative. Sending a picture through email is not a viable alternative, as I cannot receive MMS, nor send a picture/video to anyone without a smartphone. What do they gain by excluding it?

And video recording, as far as I know, is a hardware deal, not software that can be bought.

[Virtuality]

And video recording, as far as I know, is a hardware deal, not software that can be bought.
Video recording works just fine on the iPhone. There are already more than one app that has this feature already, this is the one I use:

http://www.iphonevideorecorder.com/

Works brilliantly.

[iEdd]

Just read up on it a bit, and technically, according to SI, we're incorrect. There's technically a standard that you may have seen. Ki, Mi, Gi, etc. It's just that, well, no one uses it, and no one wants to.

My understanding was that k = 1000 x and Ki = 1024, likewise, GiB was a real gigabyte (1024 x 1024 x 1024) and GB was just giga, ie. x 1 000 000 000 bytes. Which link were you reading up on? At least with kilo/kila, if you type K or k, we know what you mean, unlike m = milli (10^-3) and M = mega (10^6). It doesn't really matter I guess, I've just always seen it as lower case k, and will continue to use it that way.

By the way, why would you need to multiply by 1000 on a calculator? Or are we talking about the non graphing variety? Although I do think my TI-86 has that key. I checked. It doesn't.

Non-graphing. The fx-100AU (I think) has k, G, m, µ, M, etc.

[megfilmworks]

Where are you getting this "MMS = outdated" deal? MMS is more popular than ever, along with SMS. EVERY camera phone on the market can send MMS, why not the $400/$500 iPhone? I mean, when I spend half a grand on a phone, I expect it to do everything my cheap-o LG chocolate can do and more. If not an exact match for match in features, I want to at least have a viable alternative. Sending a picture through email is not a viable alternative, as I cannot receive MMS, nor send a picture/video to anyone without a smartphone. What do they gain by excluding it?

And video recording, as far as I know, is a hardware deal, not software that can be bought.
Didn't you know the iPhone feature set before you plunked down half a grand?
Take a deep breath, you have only a few weeks until you can get an app for MMS.
And no, video is already available to jailbroken iPhones.
Maybe you should have stuck with your cheapo chocolate.

[Syrus28]

Didn't you know the iPhone feature set before you plunked down half a grand?
Take a deep breath, you have only a few weeks until you can get an app for MMS.
And no, video is already available to jailbroken iPhones.
Maybe you should have stuck with your cheapo chocolate.
No, I do not have an iPhone anymore. Just an Ipod Touch (until 3G iphone). However, that does not dismiss my point. Im just saying for such a revolutionary phone, it sure is missing some basic features for seemingly no reason at all. No video camera (legally), no MMS (legally), no stereo bluetooth, non-removable battery, etc.

As for the video... So the iPhone can record video? Strange... Why wouldn't Apple enable it?

If Apple addressed these problems, there'd be absolutely no reason NOT to get an iPhone (besides coverage problems, but that's AT&T). Its like they purposely handicapped it.

[BongoBanger]

Didn't you know the iPhone feature set before you plunked down half a grand?
Take a deep breath, you have only a few weeks until you can get an app for MMS.
And no, video is already available to jailbroken iPhones.
Maybe you should have stuck with your cheapo chocolate.

1) It should have had MMS to start with. Also, what's the name of the app that'll give the iPhone 2.0 MMS?
2) Those so called video applications shoot at 6-15 FPS (with the higher rates only available if you encode at end of session) which is rubbish. Oh and you have to crack the phone to use it.

You do make me laugh.

[Virtuality]

1) It should have had MMS to start with. Also, what's the name of the app that'll give the iPhone 2.0 MMS?
2) Those so called video applications shoot at 6-15 FPS (with the higher rates only available if you encode at end of session) which is rubbish. Oh and you have to crack the phone to use it.

You do make me laugh.
This is MMS for 1.1.4, it'll probably be upgraded to 2.0:

http://www.swirlyspace.com/iphone/apps/mms/

[BongoBanger]

This is MMS for 1.1.4, it'll probably be upgraded to 2.0:

http://www.swirlyspace.com/iphone/apps/mms/

Yes, but you have to crack your phone. It doesn't support it natively and if Apple allow v1.0 to use third party apps you're still going to have to pay for it.

[megfilmworks]

Yes, but you have to crack your phone. It doesn't support it natively and if Apple allow v1.0 to use third party apps you're still going to have to pay for it.

Crack your phone? Not in June.

[Virtuality]

Yes, but you have to crack your phone. It doesn't support it natively and if Apple allow v1.0 to use third party apps you're still going to have to pay for it.
What? No, you will be able to release software for free via the App Store if you so wish.

[zync]

My understanding was that k = 1000 x and Ki = 1024, likewise, GiB was a real gigabyte (1024 x 1024 x 1024) and GB was just giga, ie. x 1 000 000 000 bytes. Which link were you reading up on? At least with kilo/kila, if you type K or k, we know what you mean, unlike m = milli (10^-3) and M = mega (10^6). It doesn't really matter I guess, I've just always seen it as lower case k, and will continue to use it that way.

Yeah, the Ki amd Gi stand for the correct data equivalents. I found it on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix). I'll continue to use kb though. I hate KiB and GiB. I makes me want to read it as gig-i-byte instead of gig-a-byte. It messes with my head.

It used to be KB back in the day. But you're right, there's really nothing to confuse it with. m and M on the other hand...although there isn't a millibyte :)

[BongoBanger]

Crack your phone? Not in June.

Hi. Last I looked we're in May where you do have to crack your phone.

Jam tomorrow LOL!

[AJB]

There is something a bit whiffy about this report.

I don't think the NextG network that is being referred to will be capable of 42 Mbs until nearly Christmas 2009.
You're right there ... Tel$tra is trying to dish up it's usual crap to oversell its network. Any bets when they launch it, they'll have in the fine print something like:
## Speeds up to 42Mbps are available in selected areas. Other areas have speeds up to 7.2Mbps. NextG is not available in all areas. Speeds are based on Telstra tests in a site located within Telstra's network. The actual speed for a member may be slower and varies due to many factors including plan selected, member location, method of data transmission (protocol), internet traffic, capacity and popularity of websites, modem and computer hardware used and software configuration. For most customers, the actual download speed will be slower than our top speeds, but customers can still achieve superfast broadband speeds.
Basically, what Tel$tra would tell you here is that if you get any wireless access speed that is faster than say ~3.6Mbps, they would be meeting their end of the contract. Their T's & C's give them such latitude that it's a joke ... and they get away with it!! :mad:

You could say that the only reason Telstra has 3G now is because it was privatised and subject to competition, but strangely, there are a lot of romantics with a socialist bent who still believe Telstra should be government owned, which would somehow miraculously reduce prices.
Agree here ... I would have thought that the best result when Tel$tra was privatised would be to split the company up (like what happened to the Power Company in Victoria - i.e. SEC) into infrastructure (i.e. Physical Network and Mobile Towers), Wholesale (i.e. sell telecommunications services using the infrastructure onto resellers / retailers) and Retail (i.e. the Tel$tra brand that we all buy services from). Then, all resellers purchase at a standard wholesale price from the Wholesaler, and introduces competition as all companies start on a level playing field. The Government could have kept ownership of Infrastructure and Wholesale, but privatised the retail.

I think balance is the key here ... not one extreme or the other (i.e. wholly privatised or wholly government owned).

[Syrus28]

Agree here ... I would have thought that the best result when Tel$tra was privatised would be to split the company up (like what happened to the Power Company in Victoria - i.e. SEC) into infrastructure (i.e. Physical Network and Mobile Towers), Wholesale (i.e. sell telecommunications services using the infrastructure onto resellers / retailers) and Retail (i.e. the Tel$tra brand that we all buy services from). Then, all resellers purchase at a standard wholesale price from the Wholesaler, and introduces competition as all companies start on a level playing field. The Government could have kept ownership of Infrastructure and Wholesale, but privatised the retail.

I think balance is the key here ... not one extreme or the other (i.e. wholly privatised or wholly government owned).
From the sounds of it, Telsa is like Ma Bell was here?

[DiamondMac]

Ok, I have read this forum and have a tough time understand a few because I am not as up-to-date on some language as others

- People keep debating what chip the new iPhone will have. What difference does it make?

- Some keep putting down speeds that AT&T wants by 2009. Is that reality for what we should expect on our phones 3G wise or is that wishful thinking by AT&T and/or maybe them discussing what the MAX could be?

[Syrus28]

Ok, I have read this forum and have a tough time understand a few because I am not as up-to-date on some language as others

- People keep debating what chip the new iPhone will have. What difference does it make?

- Some keep putting down speeds that AT&T wants by 2009. Is that reality for what we should expect on our phones 3G wise or is that wishful thinking by AT&T and/or maybe them discussing what the MAX could be?
Now im no expert on this stuff, but I'll try to explain a bit.

The chip, which many expect to be in the iPhone, has a theoretical limit of something like 7.2 Mbps, no where near this 42 Mbps Telstra is claiming. In fact, there are NO chips available that can reach those speeds.

At&t's update, as far as I know, is purely software related. They are updating their network from HSDPA to HSUPA.

HSDPA (old)
Theoretical speeds: 3.6 Mbps
Real Life speeds: 400 Kbps to 700 Kbps

HSUPA (new)
Theoretical speeds: 20 Mbps
Real Life speeds: 4 Mbps to 6 Mbps

So even though we won't reach the theoretical speeds, people will witness a pretty large bump.

[zync]

Now im no expert on this stuff, but I'll try to explain a bit.

The chip, which many expect to be in the iPhone, has a theoretical limit of something like 7.2 Mbps, no where near this 42 Mbps Telsa is claiming. In fact, there are NO chips available that can reach those speeds.

At&t's update, as far as I know, is purely software related. They are updating their network from HSDPA to HSUPA.

HSDPA (old)
Theoretical speeds: 3.6 Mbps
Real Life speeds: 400 Kbps to 700 Kbps

HSUPA (new)
Theoretical speeds: 20 Mbps
Real Life speeds: 4 Mbps to 6 Mbps

So even though we won't reach the theoretical speeds, people will witness a pretty large bump.

First of all, it's Telstra. We're playing telephone on the internet apparently. One more step and you guys will be calling it Tesla. :)

Second, HSDPA and HSUPA are completely separate from each other. They already had HSDPA (which they are upgrading) and to that, they've added HSUPA (i.e. upgrading the base upload of UMTS to HSUPA).

[retroneo]

Background for non-Australians.

If what he is saying is true it represents a double leak. I think he may have the network side true, but the device side maybe inaccurate.

Telstra has surprised us twice before. They are very much like Apple in secrecy regarding their network.

The network is built by Ericsson and is their flagship network. All HSPA technologies will go on this network first. The network was built in 10 months from contract signed to customers buying in store. An average of one base station was built every 25 minutes night and day over this period.

The network was built to replace their CDMA EV-DO network. To further complicate the build, it was run in the same frequency allocation at the same time with live customers in both during the build and migration of customers.

Even days before its public launch, competitors were dismissing it as impossible to build in 18 months. Telstra surprised everyone by publically lying and saying it was months off.

It covers 2 million square kilometres (25% of Australia's land mass and almost 99% of the population)

They enabled 14.4Mbit HSDPA and 5.76Mbit HSUPA in Feb last year. There are still no devices that support it.

They may activate 42Mbit on the network before years end. The fastest chipsets available at that stage however will only support 21Mbit with one antenna or 28Mbit with two.

Qualcomm has announcing that it'll be setting up HSPA+ trials with Australia's Telstra. Ericsson does the network side, so the Qualcomm link is only for the client devices.

If the iPhone is to support HSPA+ speeds it means they have switched to Qualcomm as the baseband supplier and has early access to the QSC7230 or MDM8200. No other baseband vendor is as far ahead as Qualcomm.

Otherwise, I would have thought the 7.2Mbit HSDPA/5.76Mbit HSUPA/EDGE QSD8250 looks great for the iPhone as it pretty much incorporates an entire iPhone in a unified chipset solution, and has been shipping for a while (Hi Perf GPU, WiFi, Bluetooth, Baseband and iPhone compatible 1GHz ARM11 CPU. It also brings GPS and HD video decode). It would give the iPhone a leap ahead in battery life over a multi chip solution using S-Gold3H.

The QSD8250 was announced in Nov 2006 and began shipping in Nov 2007. It's like a super version of the Broadcom chip that was once rumoured for the iPhone but won't be shipping for a while.

[wobblynigel]

Crack your phone? Not in June.

You really are a twit aren't you

[megfilmworks]

You really are a twit aren't you

Congrats on a stellar, well written first post.

[wobblynigel]

Congrats on a stellar, well written first post.

Thanks I tried to emulate your replies to posts on here!

[Syrus28]

Thanks I tried to emulate your replies to posts on here!
:eek:!!!!!

Burned...

[GradientMac]

So why isn't ATT doing this in the US? We're AMERICA!! And the ausssies are going to beat us?

Because those damn Australians are so much less important then Americans right?

And you wonder why people think Americans are stuck up...


Ugh.


But I'm excited for this!

-Canadian

[zync]

And you wonder why people think Americans are stuck up...

Most of us don't wonder. We know why. There's just nothing we can do to silence the idiots. Believe me, we've tried. :D

[DiamondMac]

And you wonder why people think Americans are stuck up...


Well I mean, I see a lot of hot women every day at work so I can't help it

[GradientMac]

Well I mean, I see a lot of hot women every day at work so I can't help it

Not THAT kind of stuck up. :P