Expose just became choppy on my DP2.0 G5. Can't figure out why. Look at this please [Archive]

Thirteenva

Nov 26, 2003, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by BIGgui_X_
I have a new DP 1.25, and exposé is choppy ! it is not if i just activate exposé (all windows) and if i stay in the same windo, or app, i was in... but as soon as i select another windows than the one i was in, it's choppy and not smooth at all...
has anyone experienced something like that ? Do i really nead a mor epowerfull CPU of video card to use exposé ? i have a radeon 9000 pro.

thanks

Shouldn't be the graphics card, I am able to use Exposé with no issues on a Rev A tibook with only an ati rage with 8mb of vram.

amberashby

Nov 26, 2003, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by BIGgui_X_
I have a new DP 1.25, and exposé is choppy ! it is not if i just activate exposé (all windows) and if i stay in the same windo, or app, i was in... but as soon as i select another windows than the one i was in, it's choppy and not smooth at all...
has anyone experienced something like that ? Do i really nead a mor epowerfull CPU of video card to use exposé ? i have a radeon 9000 pro.

thanks

That is the exact problem that I was having. Do you have any extra software running in the background? Once I quit that weather program everything worked smooth again.

Try creating a "new" clean account and see if it is choppy.

BIGgui_X_

Nov 27, 2003, 12:37 PM

I reinstalled osX, and it's all working fine for me.... I installed so mutch thing, just to try them, when i got my new dual... :) I was not able to isolate the app that was causing me problems.. it was not any of my login items apps... strange, because, in another account, everything was fine...
I reinstalled 10.31, and did not archive my user and network settings... now everything is so smooth !

thanks

maradong

Nov 27, 2003, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by amberashby
I am a switcher and this is my first Mac. I can't really compare my G5 to other Macs, but I absolutely love OS X.

I'll never go back to windows and I can't believe it took me this long to wise up.
Welcome to the small ray of light, going through the eternal darkness.

:p I didn't know I was poetic :) :rolleyes:

Anna

Nov 27, 2003, 03:23 PM

It could be due to a finder memory issue and the amount of apps you have open at once. do a top -u in terminal and see the processor use when you activate exposé.

goodluck

BIGgui_X_

Nov 27, 2003, 03:52 PM

i know that, and it was not due to a CPU intensive task in the background. i really dont know wat it was !!

amberashby

Nov 27, 2003, 05:32 PM

Strange.... I really would like to keep Meteorologist running, but that is definitely what is causing my choppiness. Don't really want to do a clean install.

MacBandit

Nov 27, 2003, 05:49 PM

It's more likely just a conflict in the system with Meteor or some other program. I have a Dual/1.42 and I regularly have over a dozen apps open and multiple windows in each. I have never seen Expose be anything but extremely quick and fluid.

What sort of system installation did you do when you installed Panther? Did you do a clean install or an update install?

So you know I run Meterologist and have no problems with it on Panther. I did have to get rid of Backlight because it made Expose do funky things. Backlight is a GUI for running screen savers as a desktop.

Sunrunner

Nov 27, 2003, 08:30 PM

Every time I hear a "switch" story it just warms my heart... its great to see the smart lemmings getting saved before dying a nasty death on the rocks at the bottom of the cliff.

Sunrunner

Nov 27, 2003, 08:32 PM

MacBandit

Nov 27, 2003, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by Sunrunner
I am betting it has to do with the "nice" settings of some processes being run by other background apps. They arent giving over the processor to expose like they should.

Sounds like a possibility but I'm thinking it's a system problem of some sort. I need to know what kind of install he did when installing 10.3. If he did an update I can almost guarantee it's a system conflict.

amberashby

Nov 27, 2003, 09:52 PM

For me the install was straight from Apple. My G5 came preloaded with Panther.

MacBandit

Nov 28, 2003, 12:34 AM

Originally posted by amberashby
For me the install was straight from Apple. My G5 came preloaded with Panther.

I don't know why it is but I have had problems in the past with installs done by Apple. I recommend reinstalling you can do an archive install.

Have you repaired your disk permissions?

Something else you can do that is kind of carried on from OS9 is starting up with the shift key down. This will prevent everything but OSX system processes from starting up. It will at least eliminate the possibility that it was something you installed.

benixau

Nov 28, 2003, 07:47 AM

Apple instals arent all bad - unless you use the system - then your up **** creek

amberashby

Dec 5, 2003, 07:11 AM

Choppy Expose again :-( . Not running Meteorologist and it's still choppy. 1 program shows stuck in Terminal Top. Could this be the problem. I've attached the top results. Thanks.

blue&whiteman

Dec 5, 2003, 08:20 AM

osx is a monster of an os and slows down a bit over time. when first installed it is somewhat snappy but within a few days apps take twice as long to open, expose slows down, everything just slows. its just part of being an osx user I guess..

even though I love osx and would never go back to 9 I must say that since it is unix based its pretty pathetic how much hardware power it needs. unix is an os that before osx was always known to make any older system operate much faster just like linux as they both draw far less juice from your system than a typical windows or mac os. apple needs to work out the hardware draining issues in osx and make it a true unix operating system. although with each release of osx it has gotten a bit faster it is still not near enough of a boost. its not right to have an os that needs the best hardware money can buy to run smoothly.

benixau

Dec 5, 2003, 09:03 AM

I have a problem with Exposé too. When I have five safari windows, 2 pshop, 3 illustrator, 2 ID, iTunes, iPhoto, ical + other apps runnign in bkground and hidden it gets a bit choppy.

Really, I have no problem with expose and my system is not that old but it was not then and is not now the best money can buy.

be careful with your statements please. They are almost anti-apple/mac

blue&whiteman

Dec 5, 2003, 09:16 AM

i'm in no way anti apple/mac. I just don't think its right to have to have the best hardware to get a smooth operation from your os. its logic and being fair to consumers not anti anything. I love macs.

i'm sure others would agree with me?

technology will only be availible to those with large bank accounts if things keep going the way they are.

amberashby

Dec 5, 2003, 09:29 AM

I don't think my problem is due to inadequate hardware. I'm running a Dual 2.0 with 1.5 Gigs of ram. I can have all but 2 programs closed and if I use Expose and switch from 1 window to another it is choppy. Not that bad, but it used to be perfectly smooth. I'm thinking something that is running is causing a conflict so that is why I posted the "top" results. Anyone see anything in it that is out of the ordinary?

BIGgui_X_

Dec 5, 2003, 11:09 AM

i dont know for you, but, when i did a clean install, it solved the problem... I was the kind of guy that was installing avery new little app from versiontracker just to take a look at them. I dont do that anymore. I dont install anything just for fun, i install what i need, and, for the past weeks, i NEVER saw any osX slow down, every app is opening as fast as it can open, and exposé is never choppy again. I suppose that if you do a clean install and just reinstall every software that was installed before, it will just be normal to see osX slow down again.

and even if it's unix based, i found that a reboot once in a while helps too. I dont have 25 thing in my menu bar now, and i did a favorite folder for my apps, games, etc, in the dock, instead of having 50 icons in it.. For now, i'm very happy to see that osX does'nt slow down by itself, but i'm also sorry to see that it's kinda easy to find an app, even if it should not affect the system, that will slow down things...

goo luck, and keep track of what you install, or just dont install everything at once... If you do a clean install, dont keep your uses and network settings... that worked for me...

MacBandit

Dec 5, 2003, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by blue&whiteman
osx is a monster of an os and slows down a bit over time. when first installed it is somewhat snappy but within a few days apps take twice as long to open, expose slows down, everything just slows. its just part of being an osx user I guess..

even though I love osx and would never go back to 9 I must say that since it is unix based its pretty pathetic how much hardware power it needs. unix is an os that before osx was always known to make any older system operate much faster just like linux as they both draw far less juice from your system than a typical windows or mac os. apple needs to work out the hardware draining issues in osx and make it a true unix operating system. although with each release of osx it has gotten a bit faster it is still not near enough of a boost. its not right to have an os that needs the best hardware money can buy to run smoothly.

That's totally untrue. I run OSX for weeks and weeks at a time without needing to restart or logout or anything. I'm even the type of person that installs hundreds of apps and then removes them later. What you need to do is repair your disk permissions on occasion and also run prebinding. Also if you did an update install when you installed OSX you need to reinstall OSX using the archive option. With 10.3 or 10.2 or 10.1 for that matter running the update installation when going to the new version caused and still causes all sorts of problems. It's well documented and this board alone probably has over a 100 threads dedicated to instructing individuals on the proper way to install a new version of OSX.

Many people are running OSX on G3 400 machines without a hitch. Unix is one of the leanest OS's going and is by far the most powerful. The only reason anyone needs the new machines is to run the new Apps not the OS.

7on

Dec 6, 2003, 11:35 AM

try repairing permissions or deleting .cache files

BIGgui_X_

Dec 8, 2003, 11:09 AM

There is a thing i noted about synergy (and everything, or every app in the menu bar). It slows down the exposé feature that become choppy when you swith from an app to another, but not when you stay in the same window or app. The more you have in the menu bar, the more choppy exposé is. Anyone else noted something about that ?

MacBandit

Dec 8, 2003, 11:26 AM

bousozoku

Dec 8, 2003, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by blue&whiteman
osx is a monster of an os and slows down a bit over time. when first installed it is somewhat snappy but within a few days apps take twice as long to open, expose slows down, everything just slows. its just part of being an osx user I guess..

even though I love osx and would never go back to 9 I must say that since it is unix based its pretty pathetic how much hardware power it needs. unix is an os that before osx was always known to make any older system operate much faster just like linux as they both draw far less juice from your system than a typical windows or mac os. apple needs to work out the hardware draining issues in osx and make it a true unix operating system. although with each release of osx it has gotten a bit faster it is still not near enough of a boost. its not right to have an os that needs the best hardware money can buy to run smoothly.

The operating system portion of Mac OS X (as true as any other UNIX) is lean and definitely gives Linux or traditional text-based UNIX a challenge.

It's the GUI that drains the system. If there was a comparable GUI on Linux or UNIX, one could make comparisons, but there isn't such an item. Any other GUI is lightweight, so of course, it's going to require fewer resources and the whole system will run more quickly.

I'm not sure what is snappy or smooth to you, but I have a PowerMac G3 with a G3/800 upgrade that runs smoothly and is snappy and hasn't slowed down over time. My dual G4/800 is quicker in many ways and would not be considered the best hardware either.

blue&whiteman

Dec 8, 2003, 12:55 PM

going slightly off topic here. BIGgui_X_ mentions that the more that is in the menubar the slower expose and certain other os operations will be. I keep a very minimal menubar. all I have there is the volume control, clock and tigerlaunch. tigerlaunch is the one 3rd party app/haxie that is totally worth having there. I have it set as a login item.

its great for all the apps you don't want in your dock yet still want to get at fast. I swear by it check it out: http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/16689

steely

Dec 8, 2003, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by BIGgui_X_
There is a thing i noted about synergy (and everything, or every app in the menu bar). It slows down the exposé feature that become choppy when you swith from an app to another, but not when you stay in the same window or app. The more you have in the menu bar, the more choppy exposé is. Anyone else noted something about that ?
I have noticed this as well on my 15" PB (1.25). I keep a relatively clean menu bar (bluetooth, airport, volume, battery, date and time) with Synergy being the only item out of the ordinary. When Synergy is running, switching between apps in Exposé is more choppy than it is without it. Like BIGgui_X_ said, staying within the same app produces no ill effects.

Note that although I certainly find the slowdown noticeable, it isn't terribly blatant: it usually amounts to the new window popping up without the smooth scaling effect (or with a few hiccups along the way). In other words, I can see how some people might not notice it.

evolu

Dec 8, 2003, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by MacBandit
...and also run prebinding.

How does one run prebinding? I repair permissions religiously - but I've never run prebinding.

MacBandit

Dec 8, 2003, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by evolu
How does one run prebinding? I repair permissions religiously - but I've never run prebinding.

You can do it from the terminal but for someone that doesn't want to delve into that I recommend using a program like OnyX (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/20070). If you use OnyX the option is called system optimize.

MacBandit

Dec 8, 2003, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by steely
I have noticed this as well on my 15" PB (1.25). I keep a relatively clean menu bar (bluetooth, airport, volume, battery, date and time) with Synergy being the only item out of the ordinary. When Synergy is running, switching between apps in Exposé is more choppy than it is without it. Like BIGgui_X_ said, staying within the same app produces no ill effects.

Note that although I certainly find the slowdown noticeable, it isn't terribly blatant: it usually amounts to the new window popping up without the smooth scaling effect (or with a few hiccups along the way). In other words, I can see how some people might not notice it.

We also have a 15" 1.25 and we run with Airport, Battery, Sync, iChat, Classic, Synergy, and Meteo in the menu bar. We have no Expose choppiness and I would notice is windows were opening without scaling. It just runs very smooth just like my desktop.

If you are having any of these sorts of problems on a high end Mac as these then it's not 10.3 and it's not the hardware. You need to be looking for system hacks or incompatibilities or possibly a bad system installation or disk or permission errors.

steely

Dec 8, 2003, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by MacBandit
We also have a 15" 1.25 and we run with Airport, Battery, Sync, iChat, Classic, Synergy, and Meteo in the menu bar. We have no Expose choppiness and I would notice is windows were opening without scaling. It just runs very smooth just like my desktop.

If you are having any of these sorts of problems on a high end Mac as these then it's not 10.3 and it's not the hardware. You need to be looking for system hacks or incompatibilities or possibly a bad system installation or disk or permission errors.
Hmm... I still notice the problem even after repairing permissions. My powerbook is running off a clean installation of panther, and the closest thing I have to a system hack is ShapeShifter (which is disabled anyway). As for incompatiblities, I suppose it is possible given the moderate number of applications I have installed on this system -- I'll look into it. I can get the problem to exhibit itself right after rebooting using a Safari window and, say, Mail, and it's not like I have much running in the background immediately following a reboot. Again, I'll check up on what little is running and report back with any interesting findings.

Truth be told, I'm not concerned enough about this little issue to reinstall the OS. Plus, I'm not quite ready to accept that this problem is any fault of a bad installation or an ill-advised system-hack, mainly because I've only had this PB for a month or so and I make every attempt to keep it in tip-top shape. On the other hand, this is also my first Mac, so perhaps I just don't know what I'm talking about :) .

blue&whiteman

Dec 8, 2003, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by MacBandit
You can do it from the terminal but for someone that doesn't want to delve into that I recommend using a program like OnyX (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/20070). If you use OnyX the option is called system optimize.

what steps and commands are involved for prebinding from the terminal? I would feel better using that than some 3rd party app that doesn't even list panther compatibility.

bousozoku

Dec 8, 2003, 05:33 PM

Do those of you having trouble have machines with more than 512 MB RAM? I didn't see any numbers, so I thought I'd ask. That's the minimum amount of memory I would recommend--the more, the better.

Here's another command to run from the prompt: vm_stat

Check the percentage toward the bottom. It cites the effectiveness of the virtual memory. If it's a low number, virtual memory is using the disk drive quite a lot and that could cause your choppiness.

It's low on both of my machines--14 to 15 percent--and they're still responsive, but then, I don't use Exposé.

BIGgui_X_

Dec 8, 2003, 05:44 PM

I have a dual 1.25 MDD, 1.25 gig RAM, osX.3.1

steely

Dec 8, 2003, 05:56 PM

Whoops.... sorry, forgot to include that. I've got 768 MB. vm_stat spits out a 32% hit rate, but I've also got quite a gnarly collection of apps running right now ( the uber-system-hog dreamweaver, and a bunch of random browsers for testing). Like I said in my earlier post, I can get the problem to exhibit itself right after a reboot.

BIGgui_X_, is your system still having the same problem even after your clean install? Or are you just remembering back prior to the installation?

BIGgui_X_

Dec 8, 2003, 06:21 PM

I did a clean install, everything was fine untill i re-installer Synergy (I bought it, so, want to use it). The last time i got a choppy exposé, i told to myself that i would pay attention when installing a new app, to see if exposé become choppy... So, the first time it became choppy this time is when synergy was on. I click Start, exposé is choppy, I click Stop, it's smooth... Not THAT choppy, but, enough to anoy me

MacBandit

Dec 8, 2003, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by BIGgui_X_
I did a clean install, everything was fine untill i re-installer Synergy (I bought it, so, want to use it). The last time i got a choppy exposé, i told to myself that i would pay attention when installing a new app, to see if exposé become choppy... So, the first time it became choppy this time is when synergy was on. I click Start, exposé is choppy, I click Stop, it's smooth... Not THAT choppy, but, enough to anoy me

Hmm that's odd. Like I've said no problems here. Even with lots of programs running.

I can even have UT2003 running and be folding and put UT2003 in window mode and then open up a couple quicktime movies and use Expose on the whole mess and it's smooth. This is with Synergy, Meteo, Monitors, iSync, iChat and the Classic menu items all running.

bousozoku

Dec 8, 2003, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by steely
Whoops.... sorry, forgot to include that. I've got 768 MB. vm_stat spits out a 32% hit rate, but I've also got quite a gnarly collection of apps running right now ( the uber-system-hog dreamweaver, and a bunch of random browsers for testing). Like I said in my earlier post, I can get the problem to exhibit itself right after a reboot.

BIGgui_X_, is your system still having the same problem even after your clean install? Or are you just remembering back prior to the installation?

Between the 768 MB and Dreamweaver, that says a lot. I just checked Macromedia's latest MX 2004 applications and they're using Mac OS 9.x style resources. At least one of them, had a reference to PowerPlant, which is a Mac OS 9-optimised application framework from Metrowerks. Despite this, they claim to require version Mac OS X 10.2.6 but if they're still using the System 6 event loop, they're really eating up the processor time doing nothing.

steely

Dec 8, 2003, 11:20 PM

Originally posted by bousozoku
Between the 768 MB and Dreamweaver, that says a lot. I just checked Macromedia's latest MX 2004 applications and they're using Mac OS 9.x style resources. At least one of them, had a reference to PowerPlant, which is a Mac OS 9-optimised application framework from Metrowerks. Despite this, they claim to require version Mac OS X 10.2.6 but if they're still using the System 6 event loop, they're really eating up the processor time doing nothing.
Right, I would expect Expose performance to suffer with 3 or 4 Dreamweaver windows open, not to mention Safari, Camino, Mozilla and IE running in the background. However, the problem still occurs even if I only have a couple applications open (Safari and Mail, for example), as long as Synergy is running. As soon as I quit out of Synergy, application switching in Expose reverts to being smooth as silk (I'm testing this right now, as I type out this message).

To MacBandit, the only thing I could suggest would be to look very, very carefully maybe ?? I'm certain you would have noticed it by now, though, so there must be something I'm missing. Maybe it has something to do with the size of your music library? I don't see why this should affect the performance of Synergy (especially since the problem still occurs when iTunes isn't even running) but it's about the only thing I can think of right now. Just for reference, I have a pretty sizable music collection: a little under 5500 songs (35.4 GB), most of which include album covers (not sure what that has to do with anything, but I figured I'd throw it out there).

MacBandit

Dec 9, 2003, 02:35 AM

Originally posted by steely
......To MacBandit, the only thing I could suggest would be to look very, very carefully maybe ?? I'm certain you would have noticed it by now, though, so there must be something I'm missing. Maybe it has something to do with the size of your music library? I don't see why this should affect the performance of Synergy (especially since the problem still occurs when iTunes isn't even running) but it's about the only thing I can think of right now. Just for reference, I have a pretty sizable music collection: a little under 5500 songs (35.4 GB), most of which include album covers (not sure what that has to do with anything, but I figured I'd throw it out there).

No I'm positive there is no jumping or strange behavior with Expose or window zooming or anything else graphics driven. My iTunes has 15GB and all them have album covers and I have Synergy pop up with the maximum pop up size with the album cover using transparency. Even when this is happening Expose is smooth.

I'm beginning to wonder if A) you didn't somehow install some video drivers or copy over some drivers or prefs that are incompatible with the video card in your machine or B) you have a hardware level problem with the video card.

steely

Dec 9, 2003, 03:15 AM

Originally posted by MacBandit
No I'm positive there is no jumping or strange behavior with Expose or window zooming or anything else graphics driven. My iTunes has 15GB and all them have album covers and I have Synergy pop up with the maximum pop up size with the album cover using transparency. Even when this is happening Expose is smooth.

I'm beginning to wonder if A) you didn't somehow install some video drivers or copy over some drivers or prefs that are incompatible with the video card in your machine or B) you have a hardware level problem with the video card.
Yeah, the fact that Meteo produces the same problem over here would seem to indicate that the music collection has nothing to do with the issue.

You may very well be right about it being a hardware issue; it'd be a shame if this is the case, seeing how the machine runs absolutely beautifully otherwise. I find it extremely odd that the problem only occurs when menu bar applications are running, but at this point, I think I'll just live with the minor annoyance. Besides, I've done the "expose application switch" routine so many times today (in order to convince myself that the issue actually exists) that it actually seems kind of normal now :).

bousozoku

Dec 9, 2003, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by steely
Right, I would expect Expose performance to suffer with 3 or 4 Dreamweaver windows open, not to mention Safari, Camino, Mozilla and IE running in the background. However, the problem still occurs even if I only have a couple applications open (Safari and Mail, for example), as long as Synergy is running. As soon as I quit out of Synergy, application switching in Expose reverts to being smooth as silk (I'm testing this right now, as I type out this message).
...

You should let the people who wrote Synergy know, even if you don't expect an instant response.

MacBandit

Dec 9, 2003, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by bousozoku
You should let the people who wrote Synergy know, even if you don't expect an instant response.

I've had correspondence with the guy in the last few weeks and he's not the most communicative person but I'm sure on a unique problem such as this he would reply personally.

He is working on 10.3 update for Synergy and hopefully a fix for the cover art. I don't think he has an expected date for it though.

I wonder if there isn't some sort of corrupted system pref or something for the menu bar icons? Probably just as likely that it's a problem with the video card.

steely

Dec 9, 2003, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by bousozoku
You should let the people who wrote Synergy know, even if you don't expect an instant response.
Yeah, I filed a bug on his bugtracker last night. I'll see if anything comes out of that before e-mailing him personally.

MacBandit

Dec 9, 2003, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by steely
Yeah, I filed a bug on his bugtracker last night. I'll see if anything comes out of that before e-mailing him personally.

Never be afraid to bother a small developer. They are normally quite thankful. If they don't want to be bothered then they will use an automated response.

BIGgui_X_

Dec 9, 2003, 03:11 PM

i'll do it too !
another question about CPU. How can you know if you have a 7455A or 7455B CPU ? i knoe that the B ones are easily overclokable to 1.4, even 1.5, but not the A. Is Appolo an A ? Is there only B's in upgrade cards from 3rd party manufacturers ?

thanks

i have a new MDD dual 1.25, firewire 400 os9 boot.

MacBandit

Dec 9, 2003, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by BIGgui_X_
i'll do it too !
another question about CPU. How can you know if you have a 7455A or 7455B CPU ? i knoe that the B ones are easily overclokable to 1.4, even 1.5, but not the A. Is Appolo an A ? Is there only B's in upgrade cards from 3rd party manufacturers ?

thanks

i have a new MDD dual 1.25, firewire 400 os9 boot.

All the MDD PowerMacs use the 7455b. That doesn't mean they are all capable of being overclocked to that level and it will require modifying your cpu card. There's no jumpers on these systems like there was on the older systems.

The most critical part of being able to overclock is in fact not the cpu but whether or not the cpu cache is capable of the higher clock rate.

blue&whiteman

Dec 9, 2003, 07:20 PM

overclocking shortens the life of a cpu and very often causes data corruption. I would advise against it. the increase in speed would not be worth the risk as it would only be a 5-10% speed boost.

BIGgui_X_

Dec 9, 2003, 08:06 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MacBandit
[B]All the MDD PowerMacs use the 7455b. That doesn't mean they are all capable of being overclocked to that level and it will require modifying your cpu card.

Since you seem to know alot, i want to know what is the choice i have if I want to upgrade my video card (i have a radeon 9000). Can i buy a geforce FX somewhere ? is there any other gfx card for mac than the radeon 9800 ?? (and 8500) ??

blue&whiteman

Dec 9, 2003, 08:13 PM

am I not here? is no one reading the words I type?

visor

Dec 9, 2003, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by BIGgui_X_
I have a new DP 1.25, and exposé is choppy ! it is not if i just activate exposé (all windows) and if i stay in the same windo, or app, i was in... but as soon as i select another windows than the one i was in, it's choppy and not smooth at all...
has anyone experienced something like that ? Do i really nead a mor epowerfull CPU of video card to use exposé ? i have a radeon 9000 pro.

thanks

Performance is somewhat dependend on grafics card memory. If I use for examle 2 monitors on my ibook, it becomes slow. also If I have >10 windows ofen, its not fully performant anymore. It's still usable though.

MacBandit

Dec 10, 2003, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by BIGgui_X_
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MacBandit
[B]All the MDD PowerMacs use the 7455b. That doesn't mean they are all capable of being overclocked to that level and it will require modifying your cpu card.

Since you seem to know alot, i want to know what is the choice i have if I want to upgrade my video card (i have a radeon 9000). Can i buy a geforce FX somewhere ? is there any other gfx card for mac than the radeon 9800 ?? (and 8500) ??

Unfortunately the options are pretty slim. Your only choices are the ATI9800 and the Nvidia Ti4600.

I personally have the ATI9800 and I would have recommended it regardless. The ATI9800 is arguably still the fastest gaming video card made. Since you hace the Dual/1.25 and not an older slower machien you will see a significant improvement over the Ti4600 by going to the ATI9800. Also the retail ATI9800 comes with an program that allows you to force Anti-Aliasing and Anisotropic Filtering upon any game you like. Not even the OEM version of the ATI9800 has that option.

With my Dual/1.42 and the ATI9800 I run UT2003 with all settings at max with all options on at 1280x1024 with 2x Anti-Aliasing and 8x Anisotropic Filtering and I still average about 35-45fps on outdoor levels and higher on indoor levels.

MacBandit

Dec 10, 2003, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by blue&whiteman
am I not here? is no one reading the words I type?

No you're being heard. I agree that over-clocking is in most cases quite foolish. There are situations where through additional cooling a chip is quite capable of running at higher frequencies reliably without any chance of damage to the chip. The only way you're going to shorten the life of the cpu is through poor cooling and increasing the core voltage.

As a side note it's in very poor etiquette to make a post just to ask if anyone is reading what you are writing. Please avoid such posts in the future as they can be considered spam.

blue&whiteman

Dec 10, 2003, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by MacBandit As a side note it's in very poor etiquette to make a post just to ask if anyone is reading what you are writing. Please avoid such posts in the future as they can be considered spam.

I assure you that I was not trying to spam. its just nice when you make an effort to help someone that they at least acknollege your effort rather than act as if the words you typed to aid them were meaningless. I work from home most of the time and check in here several times a day to see what I can help someone with. based on that I don't think my etiquette is off at all. maybe I should just stop bothering? proper etiquette is seeing that someone has tried to help you and then at the minimum say thanks for the advice ut no thanks. something like that.

I have been a mac user for years and years and that is good etiquette.

Thanks for your time.

blue&whiteman

Dec 13, 2003, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by bousozoku
Here's another command to run from the prompt: vm_stat

Check the percentage toward the bottom. It cites the effectiveness of the virtual memory. If it's a low number, virtual memory is using the disk drive quite a lot and that could cause your choppiness.

It's low on both of my machines--14 to 15 percent--and they're still responsive, but then, I don't use Exposé.

I only have 512MB ram and had a few apps open when I ram vm_stat and it read 10% so I guess thats pretty good.

iChan

Dec 14, 2003, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by amberashby
Strange.... I really would like to keep Meteorologist running, but that is definitely what is causing my choppiness. Don't really want to do a clean install.

it could simply be a conflict with some system files or that fact that meteorologist is not optimised for your current OS version

MacBandit

Dec 14, 2003, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by iChan
it could simply be a conflict with some system files or that fact that meteorologist is not optimised for your current OS version

I don't think it's the OS since it runs fine on my Dual/1.42 with 10.3.1.

I just realized there are some strange issues with the G5s and application compatibility I wonder if this is one of them.

BIGgui_X_

Dec 14, 2003, 12:33 PM

I dont think so !
I had the problems on a G4 Dual...

:)

MacBandit

Dec 14, 2003, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by BIGgui_X_
I dont think so !
I had the problems on a G4 Dual...

:)

Hmm I wonder what the difference is between those with the problem and those without.

blue&whiteman

Dec 14, 2003, 01:10 PM

I have a blue and white G3 with a G4 500 upgrade and a radeon 7000 pci video card with the quartz extreme pci hack and expose runs perfect for me. not choppy even a little. I don't understand how you guys with much more powerful systems are getting choppy performance. you must have a lot of crap running in the background.

MacBandit

Dec 14, 2003, 01:14 PM

steely

Dec 14, 2003, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by blue&whiteman
I have a blue and white G3 with a G4 500 upgrade and a radeon 7000 pci video card with the quartz extreme pci hack and expose runs perfect for me. not choppy even a little. I don't understand how you guys with much more powerful systems are getting choppy performance. you must have a lot of crap running in the background.
Like MacBandit said, I am almost certain this has absolutely nothing to do with the number of processes I have running in the background or any other performance- or load-related issues. Reading the thread should make this crystal clear.

I reiterate: the problem only occurs when you are switching apps in expose, and even then, it's not _that_ choppy. Expose runs perfectly fine otherwise. To those of you who aren't having this problem, the best way I could describe it would be that as the window is scaling up to full size, it has a couple hiccups (not unlike the effect of skipped frames) at the beginning and then scales up to full size normally after the inital "skipping". The skipping is very brief, and only lasts a split second... that's why I'm having such a difficult time describing what exactly is happening. I tried to slow things down by running expose in slow-motion mode with the shift key, but then it runs perfectly fine.

I've done some further testing, and I've been able to duplicate the problem on two other computers: an iBook (600 MHz G3 / 640 MB RAM) and a Dual G4 (not sure what the specs were on this one). On the other hand, I noticed that a third machine (desktop G4 450 MHz, 384 MB RAM) ran expose fine even with menu extras running. At least I think it did (expose performance was already quite choppy to begin with). I've tried a few other menu extra programs (temperature monitor, some apps written by friends), and they all disrupt expose in the same way on my machine. Temperature Monitor in particular is a good app to try out: although it runs in standard mode on the dock, you can also toggle on an additional menu bar display. Enabling the menu bar display on my machine produces the expose problems, disabling it doesn't.

As for the computers exhibiting the problem, unless we all share hardware that is defective in the same exact way (unlikely), I think we can rule out faulty hardware as the culprit. I'm inclined to agree with MacBandit that this is an incompatibility issue, but I am still curious as to why BIGgui_X_ presented with the same problem even after a clean install.

Whew, that was some post :) .

MacBandit

Dec 14, 2003, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by steely
Like MacBandit said, I am almost certain this has absolutely nothing to do with the number of processes I have running in the background or any other performance- or load-related issues. Reading the thread should make this crystal clear.

I reiterate: the problem only occurs when you are switching apps in expose, and even then, it's not _that_ choppy. Expose runs perfectly fine otherwise. To those of you who aren't having this problem, the best way I could describe it would be that as the window is scaling up to full size, it has a couple hiccups (not unlike the effect of skipped frames) at the beginning and then scales up to full size normally after the inital "skipping". The skipping is very brief, and only lasts a split second... that's why I'm having such a difficult time describing what exactly is happening. I tried to slow things down by running expose in slow-motion mode with the shift key, but then it runs perfectly fine.

I've done some further testing, and I've been able to duplicate the problem on two other computers: an iBook (600 MHz G3 / 640 MB RAM) and a Dual G4 (not sure what the specs were on this one). On the other hand, I noticed that a third machine (desktop G4 450 MHz, 384 MB RAM) ran expose fine even with menu extras running. At least I think it did (expose performance was already quite choppy to begin with). I've tried a few other menu extra programs (temperature monitor, some apps written by friends), and they all disrupt expose in the same way on my machine. Temperature Monitor in particular is a good app to try out: although it runs in standard mode on the dock, you can also toggle on an additional menu bar display. Enabling the menu bar display on my machine produces the expose problems, disabling it doesn't.

As for the computers exhibiting the problem, unless we all share hardware that is defective in the same exact way (unlikely), I think we can rule out faulty hardware as the culprit. I'm inclined to agree with MacBandit that this is an incompatibility issue, but I am still curious as to why BIGgui_X_ presented with the same problem even after a clean install.

Whew, that was some post :) .

For some reason I never picked up on the part of it only happening when switching between apps from within Expose. Now that I know the specific incident I find that it is indeed jumping on my machine as well. I'm going to wait at this point and see what happens with 10.3.2. I think it's probably a system level problem that as has been stated previously having increased number menu bar items causes the problem to occur.

Lets cross our fingers at this point. Also be sure to submit a report to Apple at this link.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/

steely

Dec 14, 2003, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by MacBandit
Lets cross our fingers at this point. Also be sure to submit a report to Apple at this link.

Already did :). I've got a friend who works at Apple (his work machine is the dual G4 I mentioned in my previous posting), so I had him file the bug.

MacBandit

Dec 14, 2003, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by steely
Already did :). I've got a friend who works at Apple (his work machine is the dual G4 I mentioned in my previous posting), so I had him file the bug.

Well I submitted one as well. Apple has really provided users a great way to communicate with them directly with the OSX submission form. I highly recommend that all users use it to not only submit any bugs they may notice but also make feature suggestions. This is the next best thing to editing and writing open source code yourself so please participate.

BIGgui_X_

Feb 7, 2004, 01:32 AM

Anyone has some new developpement about exposé ?? I'm now with 10.3.2, dual 1.25, 1.25 gig RAM, did another clean install with others osX disks......
as soon as i install a non Apple menu bar item (synergy, one again, iSeek, etc) exposé become choppy again !! :S:S

should we write or call apple about that ??
i just cant stand to see exposé becoming choppy.. it seems it's only true on some computer.....

what do we do now ?? :):)

thanks

MacBandit

Feb 7, 2004, 05:36 AM

Originally posted by BIGgui_X_
Anyone has some new developpement about exposé ?? I'm now with 10.3.2, dual 1.25, 1.25 gig RAM, did another clean install with others osX disks......
as soon as i install a non Apple menu bar item (synergy, one again, iSeek, etc) exposé become choppy again !! :S:S

should we write or call apple about that ??
i just cant stand to see exposé becoming choppy.. it seems it's only true on some computer.....

what do we do now ?? :):)

thanks

Not it happens on all computers when switching from one app to another within Exposé and especially with multiple menu bar items even the Apple only ones.

Definitely report it to Apple I and other have done so already.

You can do so here.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/