Adobe Dreamweaver, Fireworks and Soundbooth CS4 Public Betas

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Adobe announced (http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200805/052708AdobePublicBetas.html) that public betas of the CS4 version of Dreamweaver, Fireworks and Soundbooth are now available at Adobe labs (http://labs.adobe.com/). While the downloads are publicly available, only existing CS3 owners will be able to use the beta software beyond an initial 48 hour window.The Dreamweaver beta for Web design and development, the Fireworks beta for prototyping, and the Soundbooth beta for audio creating and editing, demonstrate the direction that Adobe Creative Suite is taking with features and technologies that will simplify and streamline design and development workflows across all media. The betas also offer users the opportunity to give Adobe feedback for further product development.Adobe lists the new features included in each beta on their respective pages: Dreamweaver CS4 (http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/dreamweavercs4/), Fireworks CS4 (http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/fireworkscs4/), Soundbooth CS4 (http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/soundboothcs4/).

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/05/27/adobe-dreamweaver-fireworks-and-soundbooth-cs4-public-betas/)

[GFLPraxis]

I guess the rumors of CS4 sooner rather than later may be true...

[supercooled]

When is the full CS4 suite slated for release?

[deathshrub]

Adobe is just terrible.

[ert3]

So I bend over the table and your going to do what to make my future experience better?

[~Shard~]

I guess the rumors of CS4 sooner rather than later may be true...

Don't hold your breath - public betas have a tendency to be released well before actual launch dates in many cases... ;)

[Greenbook]

Do the close, minimise and zoom buttons really look like this?

http://wwwimages.adobe.com/labs.adobe.com/cdn/technologies/fireworkscs4/images/fireworkscs4_557x232.jpg

[GFLPraxis]

When is the full CS4 suite slated for release?

Not October 1st.

[TheCoffeeBoy]

I still don't think we will see CS4 until Q4 at the earliest. I've been watching and reading a lot about Adobe's plans for CS4 and even with this release it seems as if they're still a long way off.

The added integration features for Dreamweaver are nice though, hope they roll these out across the board for all CS4 applications. It's good to see it actually got an update this time instead of just a glossing over.

[jonnylink]

Don't hold your breath - public betas have a tendency to be released well before actual launch dates in many cases... ;)

You can say that again. Lightroom was in beta for a year before it was 1.0'ed

[longofest]

Anyone else notice that Dreamweaver is using Webkit now to render the liveview?

[macam]

My frickin' CS3 (PS & ID) won't work on Leopard 10.5.2 on my PBG4!!!!! (1.67 last iteration of the PBG4)

I have had to load it on an old eMac I had kickin' around to do some work!!!!
What the hell is this supposed to mean? Does this mean that Adobe have completely ignored fixing CS3 for Leopard? Am I going to have to wait until Q4 to ever do work on my laptop again!?!??!?!!?:mad::mad::mad::mad:

highly highly irritated by this.

[fowler.]

good work Adobe. yet again, you've decided to not update the UI for dreamweaver, leaving it the same as it was almost 8 years ago.

[Media Pimp]

Do the close, minimise and zoom buttons really look like this?

http://wwwimages.adobe.com/labs.adobe.com/cdn/technologies/fireworkscs4/images/fireworkscs4_557x232.jpg

Yes. Apparently this is the way the apps will look across the board. Both DW and FW have the same style interface. I must admit, I don't mind it one bit.

[MrCrowbar]

Do the close, minimise and zoom buttons really look like this?

http://wwwimages.adobe.com/labs.adobe.com/cdn/technologies/fireworkscs4/images/fireworkscs4_557x232.jpg

1st reaction: Eewww!
2nd reaction: Well, those are all graphic and creativity oriented apps so keeping colorful visual distractions to a minimum is a good idea. Even Apple's pro apps follow that paradigm and have monochrome window buttons. I imagine the colored window buttons would be very distracting if you're working on a black and white picture in photoshop.

[CaptSaltyJack]

Adobe is just terrible.

So I bend over the table and your going to do what to make my future experience better?

Please explain.

[Voidness]

Downloading Dreamweaver CS4 now, let's see if they fixed the mess that is Dreamweaver CS3. Looks like they're using Webkit as the editor rendering engine.

[MrCrowbar]

1st reaction: Eewww!
2nd reaction: Well, those are all graphic and creativity oriented apps so keeping colorful visual distractions to a minimum is a good idea. Even Apple's pro apps follow that paradigm and have monochrome window buttons. I imagine the colored window buttons would be very distracting if you're working on a black and white picture in photoshop.

(Why can't I edit my last post?)

Note the toolbar icons right next to the window buttons. This saves screen real estate in a nice way.

[mr.iso]

I'm still pissed off that Adobe killed ImageReady in CS3. It's the reason I didn't upgrade from PS CS2 yet...I'd have to upgrade to Photoshop CS3 and buy Fireworks. There should be a dual upgrade path for it or something, where for 50 bucks more you get PS CS3 and FW CS3.

aaaarrrggg.

[KindredMAC]

I don't know if it is worth it....

Photoshop CS3 Beta was great to use and was really fun and all but when I went to install the CS3 suite I had to reformat my drive because none of Adobe's uninstall techniques worked to pull all of the PS CS3 Beta info off of the drive.

Use at your own risk people! But I gotta say if Illustrator CS4 Beta came out I would jump all over it at first blush..... so go figure!
:D

[thedommer]

they killed image ready because they integrated most of it into CS3. I dont miss imageready one bit.

I cant believe people are complaining about adobe. they are light years ahead of anyone else out there in almost all their programs. sure they are not perfect and there are lots of issues but Im willing to deal with them. CS3 was a huge step forward. I hope CS4 is the same.

[Darkroom]

i've be quite excited to test out the new UI for Flash when that is released (assuming that too will loose it's old macromedia ui for something more user-friendly)

[kitki83]

OK, it seems that Adobe is launching new versions more often than just a few years. I still believe its way too soon to for a new release, and may cause people not to upgrade because CS3 was for Leopard, CS4 is for?(Problaly for the fixes).

Now for my rant
WTF is adobe coming out with new version every other year???!!! I am not upgrading its just more money burnt away for freelancers and small businesses not counting rise in gas prices and recession. Man everything is getting expensive.

I pray cs4 is a free upgrade for CS3 people.

[Virgil-TB2]

... I cant believe people are complaining about adobe. they are light years ahead of anyone else out there in almost all their programs. If you really believe this, then you must be a complete novice when it comes to software.



... sure ... there are lots of issues but Im willing to deal with them. That's why folks like you are Adobe's favourite customers. ;)

...CS3 was a huge step forward. I hope CS4 is the same. To most professionals who have used them, CS3 was an incremental, confusing, expensive and muddled update to CS2 (which itself was a hardly working POS.)

Personally, I think even if they fix all the bugs and (finally!) go with a cocoa code-base, it's still too soon for CS4 considering we all only recently sold our first born for CS3. Unless CS4 is both spectacular and about 50 to 75% cheaper, I think it's fairly outrageous that Adobe expects us to buy this software yet again.

If Pixelmator would offer a normal grey interface as well as the "cool" black one, I would switch tomorrow.

.

[primalman]

My frickin' CS3 (PS & ID) won't work on Leopard 10.5.2 on my PBG4!!!!! (1.67 last iteration of the PBG4)

I have had to load it on an old eMac I had kickin' around to do some work!!!!
What the hell is this supposed to mean? Does this mean that Adobe have completely ignored fixing CS3 for Leopard? Am I going to have to wait until Q4 to ever do work on my laptop again!?!??!?!!?:mad::mad::mad::mad:

highly highly irritated by this.

You should not have to wait too long, as I have had CS3 working on my 17" PowerBook G4 1.67 since about 3 weeks after CS3 came out, and have been running Leopard since one week after it came out. No CS3 issues. Should not have to wait at all! I think you may have an issue that is not specifically CS3. Good luck.

[MacDonaldsd]

Im not personally a user of CS3, but if I just bought CS3 id be annoyed if I had to pay a hefty upgrade fee to upgrade to CS4 if it comes out this year.

[Darkroom]

good work Adobe. yet again, you've decided to not update the UI for dreamweaver, leaving it the same as it was almost 8 years ago.

it looks new to me... ???

[Darkroom]

Im not personally a user of CS3, but if I just bought CS3 id be annoyed if I had to pay a hefty upgrade fee to upgrade to CS4 if it comes out this year.

i don't think they force anyone to upgrade... CS3 will continue to function as it has always... i know pros who still use PS7 on OS9!

[thedommer]

If you really believe this, then you must be a complete novice when it comes to software.

That's why folks like you are Adobe's favourite customers. ;)

To most professionals who have used them, CS3 was an incremental, confusing, expensive and muddled update to CS2 (which itself was a hardly working POS.)

Personally, I think even if they fix all the bugs and (finally!) go with a cocoa code-base, it's still too soon for CS4 considering we all only recently sold our first born for CS3. Unless CS4 is both spectacular and about 50 to 75% cheaper, I think it's fairly outrageous that Adobe expects us to buy this software yet again.

If Pixelmator would offer a normal grey interface as well as the "cool" black one, I would switch tomorrow.

.

not sure if the professionals was a sarcastic comment at me so just informing you that I am a professional and I do spend all day in front of a computer doing corporate website design. and to me CS3 is awesome. awesome with lots of flaws but awesome none the less. definately I would agree it is confusing. they haven't quite figured out a logical workflow but they will I hope. I wouldn't trade any of the creative suite in for any other program though.... unless some other company makes something better :)

ok light years ahead was a bit of an exaggeration. but to me each of the CS packages has been an interesting push towards complete integration with tons of failing. CS3 definitely was a huge step forward.

[hob]

i don't think they force anyone to upgrade... CS3 will continue to function as it has always... i know pros who still use PS7 on OS9!

hear hear. they shouldn't not release something that they've been working on... noone is forcing you to upgrade to anything! if you like CS3, stick with it. Same with anything.

Best way to beat the "system" is to buy a mac, load it up with that generation of software, and never upgrade it! That way it'll work forever.

[dead_parrot]

I just decided to download Dreamweaver to take a look at it. Not using it thoroughly I can't critique too much on it..but first impressions aren't good. As another poster said, this is still the same interface. I mean the hope when Adobe bought Macromedia's property was that the look and feel would be updated from OS 9 Carbon days.

Oh well, there's always CS5

[Virgil-TB2]

not sure if the professionals was a sarcastic comment at me so just informing you that I am a professional and I do spend all day in front of a computer doing corporate website design. and to me CS3 is awesome....Yeah, I think I kind went overboard on the sarcasm there a bit. Sorry. :)

I just hate CS suite so much and hate Adobe for forcing me to use it, and hate Adobe's flippant attitude to their customers, and hate the outrageous, predatory pricing, and hate, hate hate ....

Well you get the picture. I think I have a slight bias perhaps. :rolleyes:

.

[mackstar]

Just downloaded Dreamweaver and it looks and feels like the direction I was hoping for. I think it feels more like a native app rather than the buggy clunky old framework Dreamweaver appeared to be running on.

Were they using Java before?

The last CS3 upgrade was a joke, lets hope this is better, already other platforms such as Aptana are offering better user friendly code writing apps, the only thing I still use Dreamweaver for is layout mode, to preview how it looks.

No signs of Ruby on Rails compatibility :(

[FetalSage]

hate Adobe for forcing me to use it


How exactly is Adobe forcing you to use it? There are many alternative applications out there.

[mogzieee]

Any ideas to innovations in Photoshop when the beta for CS4 comes out?

Interested to buy now or later...

[junkmailbonzai]

If you really believe this, then you must be a complete novice when it comes to software.

That's why folks like you are Adobe's favourite customers. ;)

To most professionals who have used them, CS3 was an incremental, confusing, expensive and muddled update to CS2 (which itself was a hardly working POS.)

Personally, I think even if they fix all the bugs and (finally!) go with a cocoa code-base, it's still too soon for CS4 considering we all only recently sold our first born for CS3. Unless CS4 is both spectacular and about 50 to 75% cheaper, I think it's fairly outrageous that Adobe expects us to buy this software yet again.

If Pixelmator would offer a normal grey interface as well as the "cool" black one, I would switch tomorrow.

.

So are you saying that pixelmator is better than CS3?

[nagromme]

I hope this means CS3 will be out of public beta soon ;)

(Photoshop, Flash and Dreameaver CS3 all seem just a little too quirky/flaky/buggy for my taste. Not horrible, but not the rock-solid apps that Photoshop once was. I don't see myself buying CS4 unless it regains the polish and stability that--some of--the apps used to have. Dreamweaver never did. Nor did Flash but it used to be better than it is now. I'm picky when paying those prices--especially when other apps like Unity and RealBasic and Final Cut have proven to be more solid. It can be done.)

[Eraserhead]

Are any of the applications 64 bit?

[KindredMAC]

What is up with everyone pissing and moaning about the upgrades coming too fast and thinking that CS4 should be a free upgrade to CS3 users????

Holy crap people! Don't go buy an iPhone or any other piece of technology..... NEWS FLASH prices comes down and newer and better things come out all the time!!!!

Waaaaaaa I bought an iPhone when it first came out and now 3 months later they drop the price Waaaaaaa!!!!!

Waaaaaaa I bought CS3 14 months ago and now I think that I should get CS4 for FREE!!!!!!!!!!!! WAAAAAAaaaaaaa!

Waaaaaaa I hate Adobe products (but still rely on them to do stupid graphics for MySpace) and think that Apple should come out with a CS killer..... WAAAaaaaaaa!

If you can't stand Photoshop, don't use it.
If you don't think that CS4 is worth an upgrade cost, don't buy it.
If you have nothing better to do than whine about how unfair life is, then go back to Romper Room because obviously you are from the "Soft Generation" born after 1985 where no one was cut from the little league baseball team and everyone received trophies even if they sat the bench and did nothing.

[thedommer]

Are any of the applications 64 bit?

I think so. apparently photoshop for PC will be 64 bit. but not mac.. right away at least.

[AdeFowler]

I pray cs4 is a free upgrade for CS3 people.

Hahahaha :D:D:D Sorry, I share your despair equally but this won't happen. Hell I'd be glad to just get Indesign CS3 working in Leopard.

[nagromme]

If you don't think that CS4 is worth an upgrade cost, don't buy it.
Agreed. Buy "every other" update if that meets your needs. Older versions will usually work for a long time--even through OS updates. It's certainly too soon to assume otherwise.

If you can't stand Photoshop, don't use it.
Actually, I'd suggest that we use it or don't (some HAVE to use it) AND criticize it. Unless you're from the "soft generation" that feels corporations should be free to do anything without having to hear complaints ;) I don't think it's some crazy sense of "entitlement" that makes people demand software they paid hundreds of dollars for to be of the same high quality they've experiences from other software and other versions. I hope they KEEP demanding it, from Adobe, Apple or anyone. And I hope they direct that "whining" at the company, not just in public like here. Though both are useful forms of whining :)

If you have nothing better to do than whine about how unfair life is, then go back to Romper Room because obviously you are from the "Soft Generation" born after 1985 where no one was cut from the little league baseball team and everyone received trophies even if they sat the bench and did nothing.

What if they sat on the bench and paid hundreds of dollars, and the bench was sold with the specific purpose of creating trophies for all buyers? ;)

[dashiel]

Now for my rant
WTF is adobe coming out with new version every other year???!!! I am not upgrading its just more money burnt away for freelancers and small businesses not counting rise in gas prices and recession. Man everything is getting expensive.

I pray cs4 is a free upgrade for CS3 people.

you're going to be sorely disappointed if you think CS4 is going to be free. adobe/macromedia have been on an 18-24 month release cycle for years now in fact they've been 18-24 months since pretty much version 1 of their products more often than not favoring 18 month cycles. it's only been during major shifts usually from OS vendors (e.g. classic -> OS X; win95 -> winXP) the timeline shifts past the 18 month window.

I just hate CS suite so much and hate Adobe for forcing me to use it, and hate Adobe's flippant attitude to their customers, and hate the outrageous, predatory pricing, and hate, hate hate ....



then don't use it. there are plenty of alternatives out there that produce the same result as photoshop, illustrator, flash, etc... that are cheaper and in some cases free. somehow i suspect though you will have a litany of reasons why those alternatives don't work for you each of those reasons you bring up are the reasons why photoshop costs more than gimp, pixelmator or acorn.

if you're a professional using these tools then the cost of an upgrade from CS2 to CS3 is like the cost of a few days worth of work at worst. $500/24 = $20 an hour. if you're not making at least $20 an hour you need to look for a new job.

[Peace]

I don't know if it is worth it....

Photoshop CS3 Beta was great to use and was really fun and all but when I went to install the CS3 suite I had to reformat my drive because none of Adobe's uninstall techniques worked to pull all of the PS CS3 Beta info off of the drive.

Use at your own risk people! But I gotta say if Illustrator CS4 Beta came out I would jump all over it at first blush..... so go figure!
:D

Cs4 installs along side Cs3. I would personally install it on a different hard drive.

[guzhogi]

So are you saying that pixelmator is better than CS3?

Maybe Pixelmator is better than PS for whatever he uses it for. For you, PS might be better. Totally depends what you use it for & how you work.

[Eraserhead]

I think so. apparently photoshop for PC will be 64 bit. but not mac.. right away at least.

Sorry I meant in the beta ;).

[psychofreak]

I think so. apparently photoshop for PC will be 64 bit. but not mac.. right away at least.

Yes, this is because Apple at the last minute ditched Carbon 64-bit. While it has the downside that CS4 will be 32bit, it brings the benefit of a Cocoa CS5 :)

[ChrisA]

Best way to beat the "system" is to buy a mac, load it up with that generation of software, and never upgrade it! That way it'll work forever.

This is actually what many (maybe even most) people do. Most software sold is for use on new computers. This kind of explains the problems people have trying to run CS3 of a G4 Powerbook. CS3 was designed to run best on the computers that were sold at the time of CS3's release.

New software is like new computers. There is no reason to replace your computer each time Apple releases a new one. Same with Adobe. If CS3 works well keep it.

[morespce54]

they killed image ready because they integrated most of it into CS3. I dont miss imageready one bit.

I cant believe people are complaining about adobe. they are light years ahead of anyone else out there in almost all their programs. sure they are not perfect and there are lots of issues but Im willing to deal with them. CS3 was a huge step forward. I hope CS4 is the same.

Sorry but I have to disagree. Macromedia was fine (Flash 3/4. Dreamweaver 5/6) but now... Actually I find the softwares to be a *bit* better each time but I expect more from a company with no real competitors. Actually, that might be were I do agree, they are light years ahead of... nobody ;) :)

Ok, ok... Aperture (vs. Lightroom), Soundbooth (vs. Logic/Soundtrack/Garageband), Photoshop (vs. iPhoto ;))

No biggie but I'm still disappointed with the merge, so far...

[jpine]

If Pixelmator would offer a normal grey interface as well as the "cool" black one, I would switch tomorrow.

.

And unless they have made some changes since I downloaded a demo two or three months back, Pixelmator has no support for scanners. Not an issue for many, but it is for me.

[morespce54]

i don't think they force anyone to upgrade... CS3 will continue to function as it has always... i know pros who still use PS7 on OS9!

True but at some point, even these people *will* have to upgrade. I decided not to upgrade to CS3 until one day, I had to work on a file which was saved in CS3...

Then, Leopard came out...

[benpatient]

the problem is that Adobe/Apple haven't fixed the crippling problems that affect InDesign CS 3 and Acrobat Professional 8.

Would you smarty pants Adobe apologists here please be kind enough to point me towards the alternative application options for Acrobat Pro 8? Aside from $5,000 per-license Creo solutions, there aren't any.

And if you are cheeky enough to suggest that Quark is a valid substitute for InDesign, go jump off a cliff. (along with all the other Quark lemmings wandering around in denial)

My problems are with Leopard and Adobe, not with Adobe itself. Before I got the 08 Mac pro, and leopard, my CS3 experience was pretty great. Now it is donkey balls.

Adobe isn't going to give us 64-bit in CS4. They don't seem to have made any significant changes to Dreamweaver, other than eye candy changes.

The anger you are all seeing is that adobe has locked thousands of us into the various Creative Suite pricing schemes. They force you to upgrade a bunch of applications that have minimal changes because you need one of the upgraded apps, and charge you for the upgrade of all of them. I don't need AI CS3. AI10 or even 8 is sufficient for me. Unless I buy every application separately at an extremely high price, I can't just upgrade the ones I want, I have to do them all. It is a nasty trick. I need acrobat, photoshop, and indesign to be totally up-to-date. I also need a working version of illustrator and dreamweaver, but they don't need to be current. Adobe has no solution for me.

Why not throw Lightroom into the creative suite packages at least? I had to buy that separate, even though I have the CS design premium package. LR should be part of it. I mean, I don't need the for-video functions of Photoshop Extended, but I could really use Lightroom (and do).

I knew when CS 1 happened that things were going to get frustrating a couple of versions down the line...Adobe has no incentive to really innovate each application for each version. Just change how it looks a little bit and incorporate a couple of 3rd party plug-ins and slap a new version number on it! Profit! Yay.

[hobbbz]

I haven't seen any of the new stuff in CS4 yet, but the one app I use the most, Flash is seeing significant upgrades in it's timeline animation tool. CS3 was also a major upgrade because it brought in AS3 and relieved a lot of coding headaches.

Adobe has stated with Flash they try to do alternating updates (code tools one release, authoring tools the next) so I can't wait for CS4 and even CS5

[cdinca]

i don't think they force anyone to upgrade... CS3 will continue to function as it has always... i know pros who still use PS7 on OS9!

I have to disagree on this one. the default save format is always the latest version. So if someone sends you an illustrator eps file made in cs3, but you have cs2 you either have to call the client and ask them to backsave it, or you cough up the money for the upgrade. Since most pros don't want to admit to the client that they don't have the latest and greatest, they upgrade. So they've got us by the short and curlys...every time they put out a new suite we've got to upgrade within 6 months or so.

[bilbo--baggins]

I have to disagree on this one. the default save format is always the latest version. So if someone sends you an illustrator eps file made in cs3, but you have cs2 you either have to call the client and ask them to backsave it, or you cough up the money for the upgrade. Since most pros don't want to admit to the client that they don't have the latest and greatest, they upgrade. So they've got us by the short and curlys...every time they put out a new suite we've got to upgrade within 6 months or so.

We get problems all the time with publishing companies not able to open the attachments we sent them (we're using CS3), or worse still - they cannot even see that there is an attachment. I always save files to be more compatible with older versions. Seems like some PC email applications cannot see attachments from Macs - even though we always tick the box for windows friendly attachments.

[thedommer]

Sorry but I have to disagree. Macromedia was fine (Flash 3/4. Dreamweaver 5/6) but now... Actually I find the softwares to be a *bit* better each time but I expect more from a company with no real competitors. Actually, that might be were I do agree, they are light years ahead of... nobody ;) :)

Ok, ok... Aperture (vs. Lightroom), Soundbooth (vs. Logic/Soundtrack/Garageband), Photoshop (vs. iPhoto ;))

No biggie but I'm still disappointed with the merge, so far...

just a comment. soundbooth is not competing against logic/soundtrack/garageband. its competing against programs like soundforge. completely different category.

aperature vs lightroom is a close one. both pretty damn good.

photoshop has no competitors other then Corel I think....

new dreamweavers are a must if you use style sheets and newer technologies. CS4 is supposed to integrate CSS a lot better.

flash has no competition and personally I hate the UI. but I forgive adobe for that a bit because macromedia is the one that screwed that up. hopefully adobe fixes that soon! (and dreamweaver, which although is very good, still has a crapola macromedia backend.)

[akac]

To most professionals who have used them, CS3 was an incremental, confusing, expensive and muddled update to CS2 (which itself was a hardly working POS.)


I strongly disagree. As a professional, I found CS3 was vastly better than CS2.

Personally, I think even if they fix all the bugs and (finally!) go with a cocoa code-base, it's still too soon for CS4 considering we all only recently sold our first born for CS3. Unless CS4 is both spectacular and about 50 to 75% cheaper, I think it's fairly outrageous that Adobe expects us to buy this software yet again.


While I am a huge fan of Cocoa, moving to Cocoa would just mean that Photoshop would become a 1.0 app again and be full of bugs. They have to move to Cocoa at some point for 64-bit support, but Cocoa is no magic bullet. Yes, I program in Cocoa. And have before in Carbon. And Win32.

If Pixelmator would offer a normal grey interface as well as the "cool" black one, I would switch tomorrow.
.
OK - if Pixelmator is usable for you, then I'm afraid you are not in the same market as Photoshop Professionals. Pixelmator isn't even usable for 95% of the work I've ever done in Photoshop. It simply doesn't have the featureset.

[cdinca]

We get problems all the time with publishing companies not able to open the attachments we sent them (we're using CS3), or worse still - they cannot even see that there is an attachment. I always save files to be more compatible with older versions. Seems like some PC email applications cannot see attachments from Macs - even though we always tick the box for windows friendly attachments.

Adobe could save us a fortune if the default save format was a generic "creative suite compatible" format and then only if we were using some feature that wouldn't translate they warn and recommend saving in a newer format.

[hobbbz]

Adobe could save us a fortune if the default save format was a generic "creative suite compatible" format and then only if we were using some feature that wouldn't translate they warn and recommend saving in a newer format.

In PS
Preferences>File handling> Maximize compatibility

[winterspan]

I just decided to download Dreamweaver to take a look at it. Not using it thoroughly I can't critique too much on it..but first impressions aren't good. As another poster said, this is still the same interface. I mean the hope when Adobe bought Macromedia's property was that the look and feel would be updated from OS 9 Carbon days.

Oh well, there's always CS5


Does anyone even use Dreamweaver anymore? Now, granted, I haven't ever used it beyond the MX version from years ago, but do web professionals actually use that POS??

[thedommer]

Does anyone even use Dreamweaver anymore? Now, granted, I haven't ever used it beyond the MX version from years ago, but do web professionals actually use that POS??

yep. been using it since homesite disappeared. I dont use to many of the features though. generally use the design window as a navigator to get to that section of code quickly. then just code in that. so basically I kinda use it like it is a slightly more advanced homesite.

[Virgil-TB2]

How exactly is Adobe forcing you to use it? There are many alternative applications out there.The same way we are "forced" to use Office. With Adobe however, there are even fewer alternatives to their product than there are to Office and they are quite a bit crappier.

When it comes to Office, a die-hard MS-hater could always find something a little uglier and harder to use, but at least it still worked. Now with iWork from Apple there is a serious alternative at least on the Mac.

With CS suite, there aren't even viable alternatives for some of the products IMO.

[Michael CM1]

Downloading Dreamweaver CS4 now, let's see if they fixed the mess that is Dreamweaver CS3. Looks like they're using Webkit as the editor rendering engine.

I still haven't used Dreamweaver for much. I didn't like it back around 2000 when I had been using FrontPage on a PC. FP is one of the few MS apps that they did well. It may have required FrontPage extensions galore, but it was easy yet did a lot of things.

Dreamweaver is a female dog. As someone else said, the UI has hardly changed. I know a good bit about HTML coding and making Web sites, although not the very advanced stuff. Dreamweaver is EXTREMELY difficult for me to use. It's like doing open-heart surgery for a mild case of heartburn. I basically have it because it's the only functional Web site app for Mac and if I take long enough, I can figure out advanced things like how to bold text.

</dreamweaver rant>

[joost538]

I cant believe people are complaining about adobe. they are light years ahead of anyone else out there in almost all their programs.

Surely you are making a sad, sad joke. Adobe is so behind the times it's sort of funny (in a tragic kind of way).


incredibly bloated programs
late to the Universal Binary party
slow to load, slow to work with
not GPU accelerated
expensive
completely nonstandard installation, leaving **** all over the place
nonstandard and slow Software Update
tendency to include needless stuff eating RAM
hideous activation which makes mistakes--killed my license without any explanation


There are much better programs available for any of their offerings, except Illustrator (Lineform isn't there yet, but is one to watch). I have purged my harddrive of anything Adobe and don't miss any of them, working with web graphics 8 hours a day.

[twoodcc]

too bad i don't have CS3. but glad to see these public betas

[klagreca]

Hey folks, lets not put the cart before the horse here...(i so wanted to use that phrase)..

I'm not a big fan of Adobe's lack of coding for performance, bug testing, and general adherence to UI standards, but let's actually install these new apps and take them for a spin before we criticize them.

K

[thedommer]

Surely you are making a sad, sad joke. Adobe is so behind the times it's sort of funny (in a tragic kind of way).


incredibly bloated programs
late to the Universal Binary party
slow to load, slow to work with
not GPU accelerated
expensive
completely nonstandard installation, leaving **** all over the place
nonstandard and slow Software Update
tendency to include needless stuff eating RAM
hideous activation which makes mistakes--killed my license without any explanation


There are much better programs available for any of their offerings, except Illustrator (Lineform isn't there yet, but is one to watch). I have purged my harddrive of anything Adobe and don't miss any of them, working with web graphics 8 hours a day.

meh.

what do you use instead of photoshop? who is adobe behind? how do you stay competitive using programs that no other pro is using?

I use CS3 on the most recent generation imac at work and an early 08 mac pro at home. on both it runs quite nice.... I find it very quick to work with. and don't get me wrong. I know there are tons of issues with it..... but the good points faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar outweigh the bad.

[cdinca]

In PS
Preferences>File handling> Maximize compatibility

photoshop is a much smaller culprit than illustrator on this issue.

but my point was that most people only save as "cs3 only" because that is the default and they just hit save.

[Bakey]

Fair enough! But you can't seriously be honest with yourself when you sit there and make a comment such as...

FP is one of the few MS apps that they did well. It may have required FrontPage extensions galore, but it was easy yet did a lot of things.

... And then this...

Dreamweaver is a female dog. As someone else said, the UI has hardly changed. I know a good bit about HTML coding and making Web sites, although not the very advanced stuff. Dreamweaver is EXTREMELY difficult for me to use. It's like doing open-heart surgery for a mild case of heartburn. I basically have it because it's the only functional Web site app for Mac and if I take long enough, I can figure out advanced things like how to bold text.

</dreamweaver rant>

... Seriously man!! You have to be joking on this one... The source editor in Dreamweaver is a decent piece of kit - auto encapsulating of tags and coloured syntax... It all makes sense my friend - go take another look... :rolleyes:

[stainlessliquid]

Wow Dreamweaver for OSX finally gets updated to be equal with the Windows version. Never thought I would see this day.

[Bern]

As a professional web designer I don't use Dreamweaver. I hand code everything. I find DW to be bloated and confusing and for me it serves no useful purpose except to make a task 5 times longer to complete than if I were to hand code.

I like CS3 though, but as a freelancer I won't be rushing out to purchase CS4 it's just way too expensive to try and keep up with the Jones'. I don't like how Adobe have a monopoly on the design industry which enable them to charge what ever they like at the mercy of small businesses, but it's the only choice we have.

[Zoboomafoo]

OK, it seems that Adobe is launching new versions more often than just a few years. I still believe its way too soon to for a new release, and may cause people not to upgrade because CS3 was for Leopard, CS4 is for?(Problaly for the fixes).


I guess I shouldn't tell you that Adobe is already working on CS5 and CS6. And that is as of last year.

As far as too frequent iterations goes, I think Adobe needs to get its act together as far as Photoshop/Illustrator/Fireworks. I will always say that I prefer Fireworks to do my work because its interface is the one that is the least painful.

[Tosser]

This absolutely effing great!

Soundbooth now does Apple Lossless plus a variety of other formats (before it could _only_ do wav)! Add to that the multitracking, and this mean I am this (><) close to ridding myself completely of Apple software, all the while getting myself a "system" where I will be able to use the same "core" audio apps on both the MBP and the PC at work!

This is fantastic!

[Pomares]

Does this mean that Adobe have completely ignored fixing CS3 for Leopard?

I wonder if this kind of behavior on Adobe's side is going to increase piracy... Could one justify not paying for a working (upgraded) version if the one you paid for is not working properly?

Controversial, I know. ;-)

[Tosser]

just a comment. soundbooth is not competing against logic/soundtrack/garageband. its competing against programs like soundforge. completely different category.


It certainly does compete with those. It even competes against Protools, believe it or not. Some places use these apps, but would be more productive with a capable, yet less cluttered, interface. And as such, this does it. Especially now that it has an easy to use multitracker (which, btw, was what made it impossible for me to "switch" completely.

Also, before this update it competed with Bias Peak - now it competes with the Peak/Deck-combo.


Does this mean that Adobe have completely ignored fixing CS3 for Leopard?

I wonder if this kind of behavior on Adobe's side is going to increase piracy... Could one justify not paying for a working (upgraded) version if the one you paid for is not working properly?

Controversial, I know. ;-)

If I had paid for a version and it didn't work, and the company at the same time had dropped support for the product, I'd "pirate" the working version in a heartbeat. Without any bad feeling in the gut – Except, of course, the one I'd have for paying (and thus supporting) a company that didn't deliver as promised.

[foeniox]

I still haven't used Dreamweaver for much. I didn't like it back around 2000 when I had been using FrontPage on a PC. FP is one of the few MS apps that they did well. It may have required FrontPage extensions galore, but it was easy yet did a lot of things.

Dreamweaver is a female dog. As someone else said, the UI has hardly changed. I know a good bit about HTML coding and making Web sites, although not the very advanced stuff. Dreamweaver is EXTREMELY difficult for me to use. It's like doing open-heart surgery for a mild case of heartburn. I basically have it because it's the only functional Web site app for Mac and if I take long enough, I can figure out advanced things like how to bold text.

</dreamweaver rant>

Check out Coda.
sounds like its more suitable for your needs.

i only kick up dreamweaver when i HAVE to, coda is a pleasure to use, built with great insight and often surprises me with just how well thought out it is.

[blackmondo]

Well, I was really keen to try Fireworks CS4 but it crashes about 2 seconds after I open the app - anyone else having this issue on a G5?

[Crtaylor]

I think Adobe is just another Microsoft anymore. They may have the most used applications for creativity in the world, but they are still far from creative in general.

I recently sent in an idea to Steve Jobs about Apple creating its own "creative suite", thus getting rid of Adobe's dependence altogether. That is how p*** poor I think Adobe's sense of creativity is!:apple:

[Tosser]

I think Adobe is just another Microsoft anymore. They may have the most used applications for creativity in the world, but they are still far from creative in general.

I recently sent in an idea to Steve Jobs about Apple creating its own "creative suite", thus getting rid of Adobe's dependence altogether. That is how p*** poor I think Adobe's sense of creativity is!:apple:

HA! And you figure Apple is less microsoftish in its behaviour? :eek:

[Crtaylor]

HA! And you figure Apple is less microsoftish in its behaviour? :eek:

Microsoft-ish behavior aside, I just think Adobe is doing the bare minimum for the applications it releases. Also, I literally sent that letter in - I addressed it and mailed it myself.

[Tosser]

Microsoft-ish behavior aside, I just think Adobe is doing the bare minimum for the applications it releases. Also, I literally sent that letter in - I addressed it and mailed it myself.

I guess it depends what app you're considering. I'm very pleased with how Soundbooth is turning out. Also, I find audition to be a splendid app, unfortunately only available on the PC-side of things, not to mention lightroom.

Besides, I don't want to be stuck with apple apps, since their QC on the hardware-side is mediocre at best, and seemingly grows worse with time. I want to be able to not rely on Apple's hardware. And the only way I can do that, is by finding better apps, that do not lock me into Apple's hardware, which I find lacking in so many aspects, not least quality-wise.
I guess, though, you and I are going in direct opposite directions, I'm leaving, slowly but steadily, you want them to produce the very apps I assume you need for a living, thus making you dependent on their hardware, in reality, no matter what they put out (or don't) in the future.

Anyway, I hope you letter is read and taken to heart by them. Some competition would be good for us consumers.

[Darkroom]

The same way we are "forced" to use Office. With Adobe however, there are even fewer alternatives to their product than there are to Office and they are quite a bit crappier.

When it comes to Office, a die-hard MS-hater could always find something a little uglier and harder to use, but at least it still worked. Now with iWork from Apple there is a serious alternative at least on the Mac.

With CS suite, there aren't even viable alternatives for some of the products IMO.

i totally use iWork on my mac - i find it much stronger than office, although i'm not a hardcore Excel user and assume that if i was i might find Numbers to be a bit lack luster. i do, however, find that Pages kicks the pants off of Word... but for PC/Linux, i can't tell you how many people i know personally who use Open Office because they've had it with MS Office years ago.

there's also Gimp as a photoshop alternative - can't vote nah or yay for it though, as i only used it a few times years ago.

As a professional web designer I don't use Dreamweaver. I hand code everything. I find DW to be bloated and confusing and for me it serves no useful purpose except to make a task 5 times longer to complete than if I were to hand code.

I like CS3 though, but as a freelancer I won't be rushing out to purchase CS4 it's just way too expensive to try and keep up with the Jones'. I don't like how Adobe have a monopoly on the design industry which enable them to charge what ever they like at the mercy of small businesses, but it's the only choice we have.

*cough* bit-torrent

[MacFly123]

EVERY DAY WITHOUT FAIL in Photoshop CS3 on Leopard my selection tool starts to blink and won't work unless I restart Photoshop. Seriously can Adobe do anything right??? It would be nice to get an update that actually fixes the countless bugs in your programs sometime this century!

ADOBE, always late, always buggy crap, always last!

[stainlessliquid]

Does this mean that Adobe have completely ignored fixing CS3 for Leopard?

Of course not, Adobe hasnt released a major patch for their products in several years. I think they stopped bothering with real patches after photoshop 5.5. They dont fix bugs anymore, they just wait for the next version.

[thedommer]

It certainly does compete with those. It even competes against Protools, believe it or not. Some places use these apps, but would be more productive with a capable, yet less cluttered, interface. And as such, this does it. Especially now that it has an easy to use multitracker (which, btw, was what made it impossible for me to "switch" completely.


BAH. I dont know soundbooth well but it certainly cant compete with logic (where I write music) and protools (where I mix it). I like soundbooth. but its not even close to where those other 2 programs take me. however as 3 programs they all have their purposes(certainly not bashing it. as I said I use it quite a bit).

[thedommer]

EVERY DAY WITHOUT FAIL in Photoshop CS3 on Leopard my selection tool starts to blink and won't work unless I restart Photoshop. Seriously can Adobe do anything right??? It would be nice to get an update that actually fixes the countless bugs in your programs sometime this century!

ADOBE, always late, always buggy crap, always last!

I get that pretty much every day too. weeeee bit annoying. especially when a bunch of files are open!

[thedommer]

Check out Coda.
sounds like its more suitable for your needs.

i only kick up dreamweaver when i HAVE to, coda is a pleasure to use, built with great insight and often surprises me with just how well thought out it is.

I dont know about coda but I do know programers in my office who have never touched dreamweaver (possibly they use coda) and freelancers who swear by their code based only programs. and the one thing we always notice is they are ALL DAMN SLOW on any complicated web site. why? because there is 2000 lines of code on one page. in dreamweaver I use the design window to click on the section that needs to be edited. then in the coding window im there immediately. I use dreamweaver pretty much exactly how they use their coding programs except with the awesome advantage of a really detailed map. other then that though dreamweaver is reaaaaaaally flawed. tried to integrate alot of the new CS3 stuff into my workflow. none of it really helped. CS4 looks very promising for beter CSS support though. kinda excited about that. until then dreamweaver will remain my glorified website gps :)

[Tosser]

BAH. I dont know soundbooth well but it certainly cant compete with logic (where I write music) and protools (where I mix it). I like soundbooth. but its not even close to where those other 2 programs take me. however as 3 programs they all have their purposes(certainly not bashing it. as I said I use it quite a bit).

As I mentioned, it depends what you use it for. There are more to audio than to write and mix music.

[thedommer]

As I mentioned, it depends what you use it for. There are more to audio than to write and mix music.

exactly. and thats where soundbooth shines. sample editing, 2 track mastering, or anything that doesn't involve a lot of tracks.

[Tosser]

exactly. and thats where soundbooth shines. sample editing, 2 track mastering, or anything that doesn't involve a lot of tracks.

Yes, and now that we have multitrack, plus support for more formats, this will mean that a lot of the people in, say, the broadcast industri will have one more choice. Most of the people I know in this business use protools, which, frankly, is one of the crappiest out there for that use. Soundbooth had the promise to deliver to "folks" like us, and it looks like they're bloody damn close to being the perfect app for this, as an app for day-to-day use.

(edit: It's not just "sample-editing", but ambience, interviews etc.). There's more to it than "sample-editing"… Go check out Bias Peak. It's close to perfection. Close, but still I find Soundbooth better in many ways)

[thedommer]

Yes, and now that we have multitrack, plus support for more formats, this will mean that a lot of the people in, say, the broadcast industri will have one more choice. Most of the people I know in this business use protools, which, frankly, is one of the crappiest out there for that use. Soundbooth had the promise to deliver to "folks" like us, and it looks like they're bloody damn close to being the perfect app for this, as an app for day-to-day use.

(edit: It's not just "sample-editing", but ambience, interviews etc.). There's more to it than "sample-editing"… Go check out Bias Peak. It's close to perfection. Close, but still I find Soundbooth better in many ways)

by sample editing I was referring to any sample. I do conference recordings also and use it for editing that. no point using protools as realtime bouncing sucks and protools (LE) just isn't reliable...especially on leopard as its not supported yet.

[Tosser]

by sample editing I was referring to any sample. I do conference recordings also and use it for editing that. no point using protools as realtime bouncing sucks and protools (LE) just isn't reliable...especially on leopard as its not supported yet.


Ah, we agree :D

[kidtronix]

DW CS4b crashes on me at start, won't start.

Got a 2.6ghz MB with 4gb ram (os 10.5.3). What's up with that?

Tried to reinstall it, same thing. Got a licensed CS3 suite with DW that works fine.

[MacsAttack]

What is up with everyone pissing and moaning about the upgrades coming too fast and thinking that CS4 should be a free upgrade to CS3 users????

Given that Adobe decided I could pay 75% more for CS3 than users in the US - yes - I think they owe me a free upgrade.

One of the excuses given for that price hike? Apparently it costs Adobe more to hold events in Europe. Odd that I should be expected to sub Adobe for that. I would have though the cost should only be passed on to people who actually attend such events...

CS3 was a "necessary" upgrade for anyone getting new hardware (though CS2 was not too bad on Rosseta). Adobe milked their user base over that one. CS4 is going to be a much harder sell for them and with some of the stunts they are pulling I expect to see a lot of Mac users sit out CS4. Anyway, Apparently CS5 will be along before you know it. :D

[gonnabuyamac]

hmm... you must have to have the full version of CS3 to beta test or something. i have a CS3 upgrade, and it won't accept my serial number.

the point of buying upgrades is that it's not as expensive. they've already got a healthy portion of my life's earnings, why am i being punished?

[thedommer]

DW CS4b crashes on me at start, won't start.

Got a 2.6ghz MB with 4gb ram (os 10.5.3). What's up with that?

Tried to reinstall it, same thing. Got a licensed CS3 suite with DW that works fine.

dont worry. its not really usable anyways. I spent a day with it yesterday. lots of bugs. some cool features though