Bush brother's divorce reveals sex romps [Archive]

groovebuster

Nov 26, 2003, 10:27 AM

I am over and over impressed again about this family... not! :rolleyes:

HOUSTON, Texas (Reuters) -- Neil Bush, younger brother of President Bush, detailed lucrative business deals and admitted to engaging in sex romps with women in Asia in a deposition taken in March as part of his divorce from now ex-wife Sharon Bush.

According to legal documents disclosed Tuesday, Sharon Bush's lawyers questioned Neil Bush closely about the deals, especially a contract with Grace Semiconductor Manufacturing Corp., a firm backed by Jiang Mianheng, the son of former Chinese President Jiang Zemin, that would pay him $2 million in stock over five years.

Marshall Davis Brown, lawyer for Sharon Bush, expressed bewilderment at why Grace would want Bush and at such a high price since he knew little about the semiconductor business.

"You have absolutely no educational background in semiconductors do you?" asked Brown.

"That's correct," Bush, 48, responded in the March 4 deposition, a transcript of which was read by Reuters after the Houston Chronicle first reported on the documents.

"And you have absolutely over the last 10, 15, 20 years not a lot of demonstrable business experience that would bring about a company investing $2 million in you?"

"I personally would object to the assumption that they're investing $2 million in me," said Bush, who went on to explain that he knew a lot about business and had been working in Asia for years.

Bush, who inked the Grace deal in August 2002, said he had not yet received any stock from the company, which built a plant in Shanghai that began production in September. He is supposed to consult for the company and be on the board of directors, he said.

He said he joined the Grace board at the request of Winston Wong, a co-founder of the company and the son of Wang Yung-ching, the chairman of Taiwan's largest business group, Formosa Plastics Corp. Bush never mentioned Jiang Mianheng in the deposition.

Wong, he said, also is an investor in his latest venture, Ignite!, an Austin, Texas, educational software firm.

A representative at Grace's U.S. office in California had no comment on the Bush contract.

Brown questioned Bush about numerous other business ventures that paid him well to be a consultant and fundraiser, and, in at least one case, for little work.

Bush said he was co-chairman of Crest Investment Corporation, but worked only an average of three to four hours a week. For that, he received $15,000 every three months.

Bush said he provided Crest "miscellaneous consulting services."

"Such as?" asked Brown.

"Such as answering phone calls when Jamail Daniel, the other co-chairman, called and asked for advice," Bush said.

Bush did not return calls to his Ignite! office and his divorce lawyer, Rick Flowers, was not available for comment.

Bush is the third of five children in the family of former President Bush and wife Barbara.

He was involved in a business controversy in the late 1980s when he was director of Denver, Colorado-based Silverado Savings & Loan, which collapsed at a cost to taxpayers of $1 billion.

He denied any wrongdoing, but was sanctioned by the federal government for his part in the failure.

The Bush divorce, completed in April after 23 years of marriage, was prompted in part by Bush's relationship with another woman. He admitted in the deposition that he previously had sex with several other women while on trips to Thailand and Hong Kong at least five years ago.

The women, he said, simply knocked on the door of his hotel room, entered and had sex with him. He said he did not know if they were prostitutes because they never asked for money and he did not pay them.

"Mr. Bush, you have to admit it's a pretty remarkable thing for a man just to go to a hotel room door and open it and have a woman standing there and have sex with her," Brown said.

"It was very unusual," Bush said.

Other presidential siblings of the past have generated controversy, among them Billy Carter, who marketed "Billy Beer" to cash in on brother Jimmy's presidency, and more recently Roger Clinton, who was accused of trying to broker pardons at the end of President Clinton's administration.

Here's the link...

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/11/25/bush.brother.reut/index.html

groovebuster

rainman::|:|

Nov 26, 2003, 10:41 AM

the apple never rots far from the tree.

pnw

groovebuster

Nov 26, 2003, 11:01 AM

True that is... :rolleyes:

wdlove

Nov 26, 2003, 11:20 AM

No family is perfect, look at the Kennedy's. Everyone has skelton's thjat they would not want revealed.

electric

Nov 26, 2003, 11:46 AM

No family is perfect, look at the Kennedy's. Everyone has skelton's thjat they would not want revealed.

We are talking a whole bone yard here, this family is as dirty as the oil they make their riches from.

radhak

Nov 26, 2003, 12:40 PM

what a nuisance these lawyers are for asking such questions, and newspapers for printing that stuff, even if 6 months late...;)

the guy had no clue what they were paying him for, nor why, but he sure knew how to have fun, though :D

wonder if gwb says a prayer for him at night ;)

wdlove

Nov 26, 2003, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by electric
We are talking a whole bone yard here, this family is as dirty as the oil they make their riches from.

It was prohibition illegal alcohol profits that made the Kennedy family wealthy. At least the Bush family made their money legally.

Juventuz

Nov 26, 2003, 01:26 PM

Not to mention how the whole incident involving PT 109 was JFK's fault because he was direlct of duty, but that's besides the point.

Why does it matter what his brother does? I remember when stuff came out about Roger Clinton people were complaining about the press and how they were being unfair to him and to Slick Willy. If it's ok to pick on Neil Bush why wasn't it ok to pick on Roger?

Kid Red

Nov 26, 2003, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by wdlove
No family is perfect, look at the Kennedy's. Everyone has skelton's thjat they would not want revealed.

Yea, but the Kennedy family is like 5 times the size of the Bush family and has half the scandals. Also, the scale is smaller. 1 billion to tax payers after S&L conllapse? Iran Contra/American hostages being freed only after Bush is sworn in-current kill Iraqis for oil contracts Chaney- steal presidency with brothers help in Florida, Eron, energy crisis, etc. Kennedy's had some sex going on and you'd have to leave the immediate family to get any real skeletons.

Kid Red

Nov 26, 2003, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by wdlove
At least the Bush family made their money legally.

HAHAHAHA, k, I lost all respect for you there and will no longer continue this lopsided discussion.

mjones4th

Nov 26, 2003, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by wdlove
At least the Bush family made their money legally.

You're joking right?

Please tell me you're joking.

Please?

mitzelplik

Juventuz

Nov 26, 2003, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by Kid Red
Yea, but the Kennedy family is like 5 times the size of the Bush family and has half the scandals. Also, the scale is smaller.

LOL, that's a great line.

Iran Contra/American hostages being freed only after Bush is sworn in

You do realize that Reagan was President at the time and Bush Sr. was merely the veep. Bush wasn't the one who brokered any deals.

current kill Iraqis for oil contracts

You do realize that JFK was the first President to send troops to Vietnam right.

steal presidency with brothers help in Florida

This is SO OLD. The laws were followed, you may not like it but they were.

Eron, energy crisis, etc.

What do these have to do with the Bush family? NOTHING...

Enron had been brewing since the mid '90s. Was Bush President then?? Nope.

The energy crisis didn't happen over night, was Bush president when it started? Nope

You're GRASPING at straws.

Kennedy's had some sex going on and you'd have to leave the immediate family to get any real skeletons.

Leave the immediate family? You must have forgotten about Joe Kennedy's dealings during prohibition, JFK's derelict of duty that resulted in the PT 109 incident. You must not have known how Joe Kennedy bought the entire first run of JFK's book, which in turn made it an instant best seller.

You must have also forgotten about Teddy Kennedy and Mary Jo Kopechne at Chappaquiddick.

How about Joseph Kennedy III's reckless driving that left that woman paralyzed. Or David Kennedy's death from a cocaine overdose. Or Michael L. Kennedy, who was accused of having an affair with his family's teenage babysitter.

The point is that many families have their dark secrets. Next time make sure the ones you're trying to defend don't have so many.

coolsoldier

Nov 26, 2003, 02:22 PM

Bush family versus Kennedy family is a pointless comparison anyway. Both were sleazeballs.

LethalWolfe

Nov 26, 2003, 02:45 PM

Oh no, consenting adults had sex. :eek: Possibly even kinky sex.:eek: :eek:

:rolleyes:

Lethal

Lyle

Nov 26, 2003, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by Juventuz
Why does it matter what his brother does? I remember when stuff came out about Roger Clinton people were complaining about the press and how they were being unfair to him and to Slick Willy. If it's ok to pick on Neil Bush why wasn't it ok to pick on Roger? You seem to be confused. It's OK to pick on the Bush family because they are Republicans. It would only be mean-spirited to pick on them if they were Democrats.

Hope that clears things up.

NavyIntel007

Nov 26, 2003, 03:04 PM

You people are absolutely rediculous.

Seriously, if you've never known someone or been someone to cheat on a girlfriend or a spouse than you can talk but seriously... get off your high horse.

Ugg

Nov 26, 2003, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by wdlove
It was prohibition illegal alcohol profits that made the Kennedy family wealthy. At least the Bush family made their money legally.

Actually, wdlove, one of gw's granddaddies was in cahoots with hitler and made a fortune selling Nazi Germany stuff that he wasn't supposed to. There has also been some questionable activities by both sr. and jr.

Here's a Link (http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO202C.html) to some of the more recent ties between the bush family and organized crime and other assorted misdeeds. It's not pretty and makes the Corleone family look lily white.

What gw's bro did in bed is nothing in comparison to the hefty handouts he got solely for being the prez' brother. Along with his daddy's connections to the oil biz. Don't you think it's sort of funny that there has been a virtual blackout on news about sr? WHy is that I wonder? Maybe because he #1 isn't doing anything for the public good in the public eye and isn't doing anything that he wants revealed to the public. The bush family is very scary.

Les Kern

Nov 26, 2003, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by wdlove
It was prohibition illegal alcohol profits that made the Kennedy family wealthy. At least the Bush family made their money legally.

Don't read much, eh? Lets look back at Harkin, Arbusto Energy, the Texas Rangers deal, Annan Kashyogi, being backed by neo-con run corporations for sweetheart deals. The Kennedy's did their deeds 60 years ago. The Bush family has no shame RIGHT NOW. Our culturally "historical amnesia" strikes again.

Potus

Nov 26, 2003, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by Juventuz
Not to mention how the whole incident involving PT 109 was JFK's fault because he was direlct of duty, but that's besides the point.

Why does it matter what his brother does? I remember when stuff came out about Roger Clinton people were complaining about the press and how they were being unfair to him and to Slick Willy. If it's ok to pick on Neil Bush why wasn't it ok to pick on Roger?

Please supply your sources for your statement about JFK. And are you implying that Clinton was treated generously by the press? If so, could you tell me what color is the sky on your planet.

Potus

Nov 26, 2003, 06:36 PM

When you read in history books that some of the old mainline capitalists made their first fortunes in shipping in the so-called "tea" trade, remember that what they were taking to China was opium which was forced on the Chinese by the British. So there's a great deal of truth to the old cliche that behind every great fortune is a crime.

Stelliform

Nov 26, 2003, 06:48 PM

Can we keep politically biased posts out of current events?

Zion Grail

Nov 26, 2003, 09:55 PM

current kill Iraqis for oil contracts

You do realize that JFK was the first President to send troops to Vietnam right.

Yep. You do realize this Iraq war has been an absolute windfall of sweetheart deals to Bush donors, right?

quote:
steal presidency with brothers help in Florida

This is SO OLD. The laws were followed, you may not like it but they were.

BZZT. Wrong. Katherine Harris - head of the Bush campaign in Florida) illegally disenfranchised over 55,000 votes (many were that of minorities). She is being sued over this.

quote:
Eron, energy crisis, etc.

What do these have to do with the Bush family? NOTHING...

BZZT. WRONG.

Ken Lay was a close friend of Dubya waaaay before the Enron crisis. And what did Bush do to help fix the situation? Nothing, and his new Energy bill makes it worse. Better, the investigations into this fleecing of the American people isn't going anywhere.

As for the energy crisis, we're going to see an oil peak in 2015-2020, and it's the 1970s oil crisis all over again. This time, however, it'll be worldwide. What's he doing to support alternative energy (like he said he would)? Nothin'.

The point is that many families have their dark secrets. Next time make sure the ones you're trying to defend don't have so many.

Pfft. Defend a Kennedy's integrity? That's like trying to defend Microsoft as being a security success.

I'm attacking Bush as a pResident who has given huge windfalls to corporations and screwed over the American public.

Also, you should note that the Bush family fortune was gotten from trading with the Nazis. I believe someone has already posted on this. Caio!

jonapete2001

Nov 26, 2003, 11:33 PM

i bet the family history of everyone of the macrumors members is just as bad or worse then the kennedy's or the bush's. Get off what people's families have done. My family has its embarrasments and bad apples, I am sure most of us have the same family problems. I hardly think this is news worthy. Know if president bush himself was involved in some scandle like this it would be news worthy.

pseudobrit

Nov 27, 2003, 01:42 AM

Originally posted by wdlove
At least the Bush family made their money legally.

From Nazi Germany?

Redefine "legal" first.

The Kennedys have their sordid scandals, but they never worked for Hitler.
Unfortunately, we can't say the same about our current President's family.

pseudobrit

Nov 27, 2003, 01:44 AM

Originally posted by jonapete2001
i bet the family history of everyone of the macrumors members is just as bad or worse then the kennedy's or the bush's.

Wow, really? How many other American families made their fortunes by committing treason in order to work for Nazis?

jonapete2001

Nov 27, 2003, 01:54 AM

Originally posted by pseudobrit
Wow, really? How many other American families made their fortunes by committing treason in order to work for Nazis?

Really what is your point. President Bush had nothing to do with this. He did not work for the Nazi's. Tell me the history of your grandparents(if you know the whole story) and I am sure I can come up with something you would be ashamed of.

All I am saying is what is point of rehashing something that happened in the 1940's or rehashing the sex scandals of someones brother. I am not defending the actions of his grandfather but after he backed out of the company that worked with Nazi germany he also worked with a charaty that benefited casualties of World War II. Lets tell the bad with the good.

This discussion has no bearing on the president or the country. It is just plan old smearing. Everyone has family members that are black sheep and embarasing. I know I do, and likely so do many of you.

Should you be blamed for the crimes of your ancestors.

pseudobrit

Nov 27, 2003, 02:07 AM

Originally posted by jonapete2001
Really what is your point. President Bush had nothing to do with this. He did not work for the Nazi's.

His whole life was paid for with that money.

Tell me the history of your grandparents(if you know the whole story) and I am sure I can come up with something you would be ashamed of.

How dare you tell me that my grandparents, God rest their souls, were anything less than good people.

I am not defending the actions of his grandfather but after he backed out of the company that worked with Nazi germany he also worked with a charaty that benefited casualties of World War II. Lets tell the bad with the good.

Then tell the whole "bad." He didn't "back out" but was forced out, otherwise he would have continued to make money with Hitler.

This discussion has no bearing on the president or the country. It is just plan old smearing. Everyone has family members that are black sheep and embarasing. I know I do, and likely so do many of you.

It's funny to watch the rich and moral get knocked off their high horse.

jonapete2001

Nov 27, 2003, 04:07 AM

Originally posted by pseudobrit
His whole life was paid for with that money.

How dare you tell me that my grandparents, God rest their souls, were anything less than good people.

Then tell the whole "bad." He didn't "back out" but was forced out, otherwise he would have continued to make money with Hitler.

It's funny to watch the rich and moral get knocked off their high horse.

This is funny. I laugh. I am sure your grandparents were good people. Most people are. That does not mean that most people have not done things that were bad or something that they or their families are ashamed of. My grandparents I am sure did many "bad things". I am sorry but to think anyone, including your grandparents(as you said, god rest their souls), were not perfect angels that did not have a past, is ludicris. Now to say that you are to blame or that somehow it would reflect on you or anyone else is dumb. Bush may have benefited from his grandfathers wrong doing, but he is hardly responsible for it. Should his family just not used that money and given it back. Just as he is not responsible for his brothers torrid affairs. He is not responsible for his brothers savings and loan scandle either. the one "scandle" reported about Bush that was his fault was his drug/alcohol problem. Many whites in america have benefited from slave money that their great, great..... grandparents made. Should those people have a made mark on their reputation from the crimes of the past. I think not.

Again the crimes of the past generations(while possibly horrible) should not hold any weight regarding the current generation.
I do not hold it against kennedy that his family was and is ****ed up. It was not his fault.

Inu

Nov 27, 2003, 04:58 AM

Originally posted by jonapete2001
Bush may have benefited from his grandfathers wrong doing, but he is hardly responsible for it. Should his family just not used that money and given it back.

Yeah right. Why should he give it back after your wonderful courts declared whole countries to give back money that someone earned that way (and took off with it)? As a matter of fact, a (albeit small) part of my tax money flows towards israel thanks to that, thank you very much.

Why should the bushies give it back? Afterall they are american and therefor not to be touched? Stop making me sick with such an obvious double standard...

Les Kern

Nov 27, 2003, 05:20 AM

Originally posted by wdlove
Everyone has skelton's thjat they would not want revealed.

One last thought...
I'd sugggest getting a copy of Joe Conason's book "Big Lies" (and if you'd like also a copy of Coulter's "Treason" to balance it all, though I truly believe she's a nut-case).
Conason takes most every neo-con mantra and talks about it in clear, undeniable terms. It's eye-opening, to say the least. I was blown away by the chapter on morality and on business deals. Any sane person would be.

Lz0

Nov 27, 2003, 05:51 AM

Stupid White Men

Potus

Nov 27, 2003, 08:24 AM

I'm shocked. Shocked! to learn that the rich become rich through nefarious and shady means, including duping their fellow citizens and dealing with the tyrants of the world. What are things coming to?

wwworry

Nov 27, 2003, 01:18 PM

Grandfather Prescott Bush: Funded Hitler during WW II

Father Bush: Funded Bin Laden

Little Bush: Used Bin Laden to ... the list is endless.
AWOL during national guard service.
Drunk Driver.

This is a bad family.

jonapete2001

Nov 27, 2003, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by wwworry
Grandfather Prescott Bush: Funded Hitler during WW II

Father Bush: Funded Bin Laden

Little Bush: Used Bin Laden to ... the list is endless.
AWOL during national guard service.
Drunk Driver.

This is a bad family.

Bush Senior:
Funded Bin Laden(before he vowed to bring down america) to fight the Soviet Spread in Afganistan.

Bush Grandpa: invested and worked(ran banking operation) in a company that worked with another company that funded hitler. In all the articles I researched for this, none said that Prescott actually funded Hitler directly.

Bush Jr. Used Bin Laden to what? Fight terrorism, take down Hussein.

The list is endless and can be seen in what ever light you choose.

This is a normal family that happens to be rich and in power.

The government is more tricky and difficult to manage than people think(IMO). One can not always forsee the way things will unfold like Bin Laden and Hussein. If Bush and Reagan would have funded these guys knowing what was to happen that would be a different story, but they did not.

This is such a bias forum it makes me sick sometimes. And dont tell me to leave then because that would just wrong.

wwworry

Nov 27, 2003, 04:36 PM

I am biased against drunk driver, AWOL presidents, true. I am biased against people who continue to fund Nazis even after war against germany was declared, true. I am biased against funding of terrorist organizations, true.

Why are you not? Aren't you just apologizing for bad behavior just because your party is in power? That seems weak to me.

pseudobrit

Nov 27, 2003, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by jonapete2001
This is such a bias forum it makes me sick sometimes. And dont tell me to leave then because that would just wrong.

Show us we're wrong then. Most who've said there is a bias here can't put together a solid argument for or against anything real being debated.

Instead they tend to assume negative stereotypes about the people here and attack them instead of the issue.

You've so far fit that mould.

groovebuster

Nov 28, 2003, 03:54 AM

Wow!!! I didn't expect to cause an "emotional" discussion like this, when I posted the article!

groovebuster

groovebuster

Nov 28, 2003, 04:12 AM

Originally posted by NavyIntel007
Seriously, if you've never known someone or been someone to cheat on a girlfriend or a spouse than you can talk but seriously... get off your high horse.

Knowing someone doesn't matter, don't you think? To know a person that did bad things doesn't imply that it excuses also the bad actions of somebody else and takes the right away to oppose openly to a misconduct like that.

If you've done that yourself it also doesn't mean that you are not eligable to critizise. It depends on if you are regretting what you did. But if not you hardly would openly talk against it, right?

Since I never cheated on my girl-friends (but they cheated on me) or my wife my whole life and I am pretty sure that I would never do, I feel pretty comfortable on my high horse.

Morals are something you are living and can't be forced on a person.

I think a family like the Bush family just shows that power and money have nothing to do with acting moral. It's the opposite. Money and power corrupts most people over the time and most wealthy families I know are totally screwed up, especially their kids.

I just don't find it surprising that the brother of GWB is as bad a loser as GWB himself. And I don't know what kind of families most people, who are defending the Bush family as "totally normal", are used to, but the normal(!) families I know don't show such a concentration of moral failures with almost every family member.

groovebuster

Stelliform

Nov 28, 2003, 07:47 AM

....

groovebuster

Nov 28, 2003, 09:21 AM

I don't see anybody talking about Clinton here. And also as far as I understood nobody really was blaming or condemning GWB for what his brother did. People find it just odd, that he is very questionable as well in his actions.

Why are you pulling it again into that pointless Clinton vs. Bush discussion?

groovebuster

Potus

Nov 28, 2003, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by Stelliform
I find it surprising that the people who are condemning Bush for what his brother did, are the same people who were excusing Clinton when he lied under oath (i.e. committed a felony) to hide his extramarital affairs with an employee!

Seems to be a major double standard.

What Clinton did pissed me off because if I did it I would be in jail. Talk about power corrupting. Also Clinton is destroying the democratic party to keep his family in power. Go Hillary 2008!

It's unlikely that either you or Clinton would go to jail for lying under oath. If that were the case the jails would be filled with those who signed a tax report which "hedged" on income or failed to report same, got a license and said they weighed less than they actually did, etc. All those documents are signed under oath and penalty of perjury. It's both wrong and illegal to lie under oath, but the circumstance of a lawsuit which was funded and designed to bring down the president must also be considered. The Rethuglican party does not believe in government: it seeks to rule.

wwworry

Nov 28, 2003, 10:49 AM

If we went AWOL we would be in jail for sure.

Stelliform

Nov 28, 2003, 11:31 AM

....

Potus

Nov 28, 2003, 06:12 PM

Actually, among recent presidents, I believe Gerald Ford to have been a good and honest man who tried to do his best for his country, unlike Duhbya who is trying to do his best for his friends. And while I did not support his policies, I don't think George senior was corrupt.

jonapete2001

Nov 28, 2003, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by Potus
Actually, among recent presidents, I believe Gerald Ford to have been a good and honest man who tried to do his best for his country, unlike Duhbya who is trying to do his best for his friends. And while I did not support his policies, I don't think George senior was corrupt.

I dont think Bush Jr. curropt either(not anymore than other recent presidents, dems and repubs.). I have heard a saying that anyone who gets that high into power can't be a nice guy. I think this is some what true. No one gets into power as president unless they have a severe control issue. Screw the help your country montra. Gerald Ford may not have been sceen as curropt becasue he never saught the presidency, at least not at first. He is the only president not to be elected(appointed VP after Agnue and then Nixon resigned), if i remember corectly. Maybe he is was not curropted by the seeking of power.

Potus

Nov 28, 2003, 09:47 PM

Originally posted by jonapete2001
Screw the help your country montra. Gerald Ford may not have been sceen as curropt becasue he never saught the presidency, at least not at first. He is the only president not to be elected(appointed VP after Agnue and then Nixon resigned), if i remember corectly. Maybe he is was not curropted by the seeking of power.

The enrichment of cronies by Duhbya is unprecedented in recent history. Starting a war to protect and expand extraction industries is only one example.

Stelliform

Nov 28, 2003, 09:48 PM

....

Potus

Nov 28, 2003, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by Stelliform
That is only true from a certain point of view.

Check the sig. :D

uh huh

Ugg

Nov 28, 2003, 10:34 PM

Originally posted by jonapete2001
I dont think Bush Jr. curropt either(not anymore than other recent presidents, dems and repubs.).

So the only good prez is a corrupt one? Your reasoning escapes me. The first george was corrupt in an old school kind of way. Reagan was overwhelmed by the power of office and either allowed himself to be corrupted or and I really believe this was the case, was overcome by Alzheimer's in his last years in office. Ford and Carter were good men who failed to turn their goodness into effective presidencies. Clinton did not use the office of president for personal gain nor to enrich his friends like gw & co. are. gw doesn't care about America nor about Americans only about enriching those of his ilk.

jonapete2001

Nov 28, 2003, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by Ugg
So the only good prez is a corrupt one? gw doesn't care about America nor about Americans only about enriching those of his ilk.

No that is not what I said. I was saying that power corrupts. Most people who seek out high office are already not "nice people". You have to be mean to get that far in politics, because politics is not a nice game. If you think Clinton did not use the office to enrich himself than you are not facing reality. For the most part they all do underhanded things. It is not right, I wish they did not, but that is the way it is.(its like gravity).

It is not a fact that Bush is using the office in a unprecidented historical manor. You can not prove that he is enriching his "buddies" unjustly. Just because his buddies happen to do a service that is needed does not make it unjust. It is just political mud slinging because democratic canidates are worried about their chances. Just wait the economy is taking a turn for the better then this upcoming election will down to real dirty tactics.

jefhatfield

Nov 29, 2003, 03:09 AM

Originally posted by jonapete2001
i bet the family history of everyone of the macrumors members is just as bad or worse then the kennedy's or the bush's. Get off what people's families have done. My family has its embarrasments and bad apples, I am sure most of us have the same family problems. I hardly think this is news worthy. Know if president bush himself was involved in some scandle like this it would be news worthy.

i agree... even though i know i won't vote for W ;)

but really, who cares what the details of his younger brother's divorce are?

it is W who is running the country, not his younger brother

wwworry

Nov 29, 2003, 06:54 AM

He gave no bid contracts to his vice presidents company.

He threatened to veto any FCC regulations that did not allow greater monopoly control of the media - against the wishes of 99% of the American people.

He had secret meetings with energy company contributers that resulted in ... more subsidies and less regulation for energy companies!

He put forth a tax plan that resulted in huge tax cuts for himself, his vice president and his cabinet. Yeah right, it's just a coincidence.

He did not serve his national guard service and got away with it. AWOL.

Threw out a year of post-war Iraq state department planning because if it looked like they were "planning" people would think, rightly, that they had already decided to go to war. THis resulted in billions of $ in damage and lost American and Iraqi lives. Their media manipulation resulted in dead soldiers. Thanks.

Sold America war based on false information.

Mislabled "clear skies" initiative results in air-quality worse than existing regulation. Has EPA put out advertising lobbying for this bill. Against the law.

Administration outs CIA agent, putting her life and the lives of her contacts at risk, to get back at diplomat for telling the truth. Media manipulation putting lives at risk. Against the law.

Corrupt corrupt corrupt and all true.

Ugg

Nov 29, 2003, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by jefhatfield
i agree... even though i know i won't vote for W ;)

but really, who cares what the details of his younger brother's divorce are?

it is W who is running the country, not his younger brother

Ah, but he comes from a family that has proved again and again that corruption is a way of life for them. I think that is relevant.

Potus

Nov 29, 2003, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by jonapete2001
Just wait the economy is taking a turn for the better then this upcoming election will down to real dirty tactics.

Will the deficits disappear?
Will there be a huge surplus?
Will employmnet return to those long ago 1999 levels?
And on another note, will the air be cleaner? Will endangered species be protected? Will the water be cleaner? Will the 40 million uninsured have health care? Do Rethuglicans care? Just asking.

jefhatfield

Nov 29, 2003, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by Ugg
Ah, but he comes from a family that has proved again and again that corruption is a way of life for them. I think that is relevant.

as some posters have pointed out, they are no more full of scandals than the kennedys

politics is corruption in practice if you have not noticed, and the bush and kennedy families are america's foremost political families and will probably be in the media limelight for at least another twenty more years

why do you think the most distrusted profession in america, lawyers, are the majority of the people in congress?

Potus

Nov 29, 2003, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by jefhatfield
a
why do you think the most distrusted profession in america, lawyers, are the majority of the people in congress?

I take it that you have determined to abstain from suing in the event you or your loved ones are injured or defrauded? And I for one am waiting with baited breath for Rush to turn himself into law enforcement for his crimes.

jefhatfield

Nov 29, 2003, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by Potus
I take it that you have determined to abstain from suing in the event you or your loved ones are injured or defrauded? And I for one am waiting with baited breath for Rush to turn himself into law enforcement for his crimes.

the law profession is necessary for our society

but it is easily the most distrusted profession in america

name one legitimate profession that has such a distrusted name?

ok, i know of one profession which is more distrusted...the niebelungs;) :p

jonapete2001

Nov 29, 2003, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by Potus
Will the deficits disappear?
Will there be a huge surplus?
Will employmnet return to those long ago 1999 levels?
And on another note, will the air be cleaner? Will endangered species be protected? Will the water be cleaner? Will the 40 million uninsured have health care? Do Rethuglicans care? Just asking.

Only time will tell? surplus, not for a while. Jobs eventually will return to good levels.

Air, water, animals, do republicans care? Some do, some don't. Just like democrats it is a mixed bag. But I am more concerned with terrorists and the economy than environment(at least for now).

Why do call repiublicans "rethuglicans"? It is a bit stupid.

Potus

Nov 29, 2003, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by jonapete2001

Why do call repiublicans "rethuglicans"? It is a bit stupid.

Why do you ask stupid questions? To mirror your IQ?

Potus

Nov 29, 2003, 11:29 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jonapete2001
[B]But I am more concerned with terrorists and the economy than environment(at least for now).

Can the old-growth forest be regrown? Can a species, once extinguished be resurrected?
Ou sont les neiges d'antan?

mactastic

Nov 30, 2003, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by Potus
Why do you ask stupid questions? To mirror your IQ?

Attack the argument not the person.

SPG

Nov 30, 2003, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by jonapete2001
i bet the family history of everyone of the macrumors members is just as bad or worse then the kennedy's or the bush's.
Speak for yourself.
Most republican business families maybe? Most of the families I know are honest and hard working. Nobody I know has been indicted or even investigated for anything even close to what we've been talking about here.

Originally posted by jonapete2001
One can not always forsee the way things will unfold like Bin Laden and Hussein. If Bush and Reagan would have funded these guys knowing what was to happen that would be a different story, but they did not.
It wasn't even a question of seeing into the future with Bin Laden and Hussein. Hussein was defended by the US after the chemical weapon attacks on the Kurds and Cheney had no problem doing business with him after Gulf War I. Clinton went after Bin Laden and the republicans jumped all over him calling it a wag the dog maneuver, then which president after Clinton didn't do **** even after being warned and given a plan ready to go?
Originally posted by Potus
And while I did not support his policies, I don't think George senior was corrupt.
Maybe not was, even though he was in office during the Iran Contra scandal, but you should read Greg Palast's accounts of the murders committed by the gold mining companies that Bush I currently sits on.
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=207&row=3

Originally posted by jonapete2001
... If you think Clinton did not use the office to enrich himself than you are not facing reality.
Please show me a single instance where Clinton used the office to enrich himself. (and speaking engagements by ex presidents don't count!). Meanwhile we can point to so many instances where bush is pulling favors for himself and his buddies that it is sickening. Tom Delay just made permanent some more tax cuts this week that only affect the absolute richest while shutting down any attempt at extending the unemployment benefits that run out in January.

Originally posted by jonapete2001
It is not a fact that Bush is using the office in a unprecidented historical manor. You can not prove that he is enriching his "buddies" unjustly.
We all know he is. Hell even the pentagon had too much when Cheney's Haliburton was charging them double for gas in Iraq.

Originally posted by jonapete2001
Just because his buddies happen to do a service that is needed does not make it unjust.
It makes it unjust when they recieve no bid contracts in return for having been campaign supporters.

Originally posted by jonapete2001
Just wait the economy is taking a turn for the better then this upcoming election will down to real dirty tactics.
Dirty tactics like pointing out that the nation is short nearly three million jobs that were there under Clinton? That this is the first time since the great depression under Hoover that we have had a net loss of jobs under a president? 3,000,000 more people out of work don't give a **** about a quarter of GDP growth.

jonapete2001

Dec 1, 2003, 12:11 AM

Just a bit off topic, but do you ever get the sense that there are about 4 conservatives that visit this board and most of the time the liberals here are preaching to the choir.

groovebuster

Dec 1, 2003, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by Stelliform
Uhh, half of the posts are about how this is an example of how the Bush family is the spawn of satan and all that is evil.....

Still that doesn't mean that GWB is responsible for the actions of his brother and I don't see that claim represented in any of the quotes or even your own statement you presented...

Originally posted by Stelliform
It is the same pointless anti-GWB debate that rages in here. It is funny how it becomes pointless when you bring up a democrat.

Hmmm... last time I checked I was a German living in Germany... I couldn't care less if GWB is a Democrat or a Republican... But I do care what kind of policy he is doing since it also affects me. And extra info about how rotten his whole family is helps to get a bigger picture what kind of man GWB is, since he was raised with the same values as his siblings, don't you think? That doesn't change that he is acting on his own, but the roots of a person often tell more than the role that person is playing in the present.

groovebuster