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Voidness
May 29, 2008, 03:13 PM
May 28, 2009: I'm typing this on a brand new 2.4GHz Unibody MacBook Pro! Apple have agreed to arrange a replacement here in Saudi Arabia, after I contacted Apple again back in March. It took Apple more than 2 months to arrange the deal with their local representatives, much longer than expected.

I'm very grateful to Apple. I'm really glad this is finally over. :):D

UPDATE September 4th: Well, I expected to be in Canada a month ago. Unfortunately, I had to stay in Saudi Arabia. It also seems unlikely that I'll be in Canada anytime soon, maybe by December or even next summer. Earlier today I was on the phone with Apple Canada Executive Relations, and their only solution is to wait until the next time I'm in Canada. They are unable to ship a replacement MacBook Pro to me due to Saudi Arabia's own laws and custom regulations.

UPDATE July 2nd: Good news! I just received a call from Apple Executive Relations in response to my e-mails to Steve Jobs. She told me that Apple will have my MacBook Pro replaced when I come to Canada next month. She apologized that Apple cannot replace my MacBook Pro here in Saudi Arabia due to local laws regarding customs, and the fact that Apple does not operate directly in IMC countries.

I took the opportunity to raise my concerns regarding their IMC program and the bad name it's giving for Apple. She assured me that Apple aware of these concerns and that they're working hard on a solution for IMCs.

Let's see how this goes :)

NOTE: This is a VERY lengthy post.

I don't think it's very often to hear about someone's experience with Apple in Saudi Arabia. After two years of frustration, I finally feel it's time to share my experience.

Before digging into the details of my story, I want to point out the parties involved in it:

1- GlobalStore: An Apple Authorized Premium Reseller in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
2- Arab Computers: Apple's only official representative in Saudi Arabia, and the sole Apple Authorized Service Provider.
3- Apple Store Eaton Centre in Toronto.
4- Apple Canada Executive Relations.
5- Apple Customer Relations in the United States.
6- Apple Customer Relations in the United Kingdom.

So, let's start:

June 2006

It all began when I bought a 1.83 GHz 15" MacBook Pro from GlobalStore (then called Apple Center) on June 11 2006. I was very happy with the new machine, well, for about two weeks. The battery suddenly died; it didn't hold charge at all. I took the machine to GlobalStore, and to my surprise, they claimed that there are no replacement batteries available for MacBook Pros, and that they're not expecting a new shipment for another few months. However, they managed to get me a spare battery from one of their existing machines and gave it to me as a replacement.

Unfortunately, that didn't go so well. The replacement battery started to swell, and consequently damaged the trackpad above it. So, went back to GlobalStore to show them the problem. I was told that they don't *do repairs, Arab Computers are the only Apple Authorized Service Provider. They also told me that if I were to take it to them, it would take them at least a month to repair it. I couldn't afford to wait that long, as I was returning to Canada before then.

August 2006

So, in Canada, I took my MacBook Pro to the Apple Store in Eaton Centre on August 8. I showed them the machine, they replaced the battery on the spot, and took the machine in to replace the top case because of the damaged trackpad. The next day my MacBook Pro was ready for pickup, so I went back to Apple Store to take my machine and got back home.

Unfortunately, it didn't end there. When I got home, I turned on the machine and noticed a strange screeching noise from the right side near the fan. I also noticed that disks would not eject from the optical drive unless I persistently press the eject button for about half an hour. So, I took back the MacBook Pro to the Apple Store. However, this time they claimed that my MacBook Pro's warranty is not accepted by their system, due to it being purchased in an "IMC Country". An IMC Country is a country where Apple does not have direct operations. This includes the Middle East and Africa. So, I was told to call Apple Customer Care to activate my machine's warranty. So I had to go back home to get the warranty issue resolved.

I returned to Apple Store on August 12 after I called Apple Customer Care. Again, the system would not accept my machine's warranty. However, they just took the machine in and replaced the Right Fan and the Superdrive.

So, after just 2 months of ownership, I had to replace the battery twice, the top case, the right fan, and the Superdrive. Furthermore, due to the multiple repairs done on the machine, it didn't feel as solid as when I first bought it, with several minor scratches and a wrapped case. But at that point, I decided to just enjoy my MacBook Pro and ignore what happened.

September 2006

I travelled back to Riyadh in September, and I kept using the machine for the next several months. However, I noticed one more minor issue in my MacBook Pro. There was a high-pitched buzzing noise coming from the left side of the machine. I searched the internet and found out that many other users are experiencing the same problem with their MacBook Pro's. I also found out that this specific problem is documented by Apple in their knowledge base: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303365. According to several accounts on this issue, Apple replaces the Main Logic Board of the MacBook Pro's affected by this problem.

As a student, I am very dependent on the MacBook Pro, and I couldn't afford taking it to GlobalStore for repair during the semester knowing that it would take Arab Computers at least a month to repair it. So I waited until summer, and that's when things started to get messy.

June 2007 - July 2007

On the last day of the warranty, June 11 2007, right after my last final exam, I took my MacBook Pro to GlobalStore. They acknowledged the problem and took in the machine to send it to Arab Computers for repair. GlobalStore informed me that it would take Arab Computers at least two weeks to repair it, and it normally takes a month. My return trip to Canada was on July 23, and I thought there was ample time for them to have it fixed.

To my disappointment, 6 weeks from June 11 to July 23 were not enough. During these 6 weeks, I made numerous visits and phone calls to GlobalStore to follow up with my issue. However, every time I was told that Arab Computers are refusing to do any repairs, claiming that the "left speakers are functioning correctly". I re-demonstrated the problem to GlobalStore several times, clarifying that the noise is not coming from the left speaker. In my attempt to directly contact Arab Computers, they refused to talk to me, claiming that "they don't deal directly with individual customers" and that "I should only deal with GlobalStore regarding machine repairs".

So, on July 22nd, a few hours before my return flight to Canada, I went to GlobalStore to pickup my MacBook Pro, now out of warranty, and no repairs done on it after 6 weeks. GlobalStore already knew that I was leaving to Canada. Seeing how upset I was, they promised me that if I were unable to resolve my issue in Canada, they will get my machine repaired under warranty when I return to Riyadh.

August 2007

So I'm back to Canada, and I wasn't sure how I could reach Apple to explain my issue. Searching online, I found out that the best way to reach Apple is to send an e-mail to Steve Jobs. So I wrote an e-mail to sjobs@apple.com. Then, on August 7, I received a phone call from Apple Executive Relations in Canada. I explained to him my problem, and he asked me to go an Apple Store to allow a technician at the Genius Bar to inspect my MacBook Pro.

The next day, August 8, I went to Apple Store Eaton Centre with my MacBook Pro. I got my machine inspected, and they acknowledge the issue. The technician told me that my MacBook Pro's serial number did not fall within the range of serial numbers that are affected by this particular problem. However, he said my machine is clearly affected, so they took in my machine and offered to replace the Main Logic Board under warranty. At this point, I thought it was over.

My MacBook Pro was ready for pickup the next day, August 9. I went to pick it up, and got back home. I turn on the machine, and I can still hear a high-pitched buzzing noise! Before I got the chance to do anything, I recieved a phone call from Apple Executive Relations to follow up with my issue. I explain to him that even after the logic board replacement, I still get the same buzzing noise. So, he told me to go back to Apple Store to have the machine inspected again.

I returned to the Apple Store on August 10, and they took in my MacBook Pro again to replace the Left I/O Board. They replaced in a few hours. However, even that did not remedy the problem, as I could still hear the same buzzing noise. But this time, the technicians at the Genius Bar claimed that they could not hear the noise anymore. I had no choice but to take my machine and go back home.

The next day, I got a call from Apple Executive Relations in Canada. I was told that Apple Canada did everything they could do to resolve my issue, and that they would have replaced my MacBook Pro with a new one had it not been purchased from an IMC Country. At that point, I was very upset with the whole situation. I thought after all the trouble I've experienced with my MacBook Pro, I should be entitled to have the machine replaced. I decided that since I bought this problematic MacBook Pro from GlobalStore, they are the ones who should replace it.

September 2007

I was back in Riyadh, and on September 2 2007, I took my MacBook Pro to GlobalStore and conveyed my frustration. They offered that they'll attempt to arrange a deal with Arab Computers to have my machine replaced.

Now, this is when things get incredibly frustrating.

October 2007

A few weeks have passed with no news about my MacBook Pro. GlobalStore kept on telling me that my MacBook Pro was at Arab Computers, and that they're still discussing my issue. I kept waiting until I got a phone call from GlobalStore informing me that Arab Computers have agreed to replace my MacBook Pro. However, they were still waiting on final approval from Apple Europe. I was also told that if Apple Europe were not to approve of the replacement, I can still get a trade-in by paying a few hundred Riyals in difference to get a new machine.

On October 6, I went to GlobalStore to follow up with the replacement offer. There was no news about it, so I asked GlobalStore to call Arab Computers for me (Remember, Arab Computers refuses to talk to individual customers). I was shocked to hear that my MacBook Pro was not at Arab Computers all along. After some investigation, it turned out that my MacBook Pro has not left GlobalStore since I gave it to them on September 2nd! The situation was ridiculous, but GlobalStore assured me that they'll have it sent to Arab Computers the next day.

So, on October 7th, I visited GlobalStore again. This time however, they claimed that Arab Computers have instructed them not to get involved in my issue any longer, and that I'll have to deal with Arab Computers directly. It was a surprising turn of events. Coincidentally, one of Arab Computers' employees, Mr. Hussam Zaa'zaa, was at GlobalStore at the time. Mr. Zaa'zaa confirmed the replacement offer, and assured me that I'll get the replacement machine before October 10, the last day before "Eid Al-Fitir" Holiday in Saudi Arabia.

October 10, and Mr. Zaa'zaa could not deliver on his promise. I gave him a call, and he reassured me that I'll get the replacement right after the holiday. So, 10 days later, on October 20, I get a call from Mr. Zaa'zaa asking me to come to Arab Computer's Main Office. Later that day, I come to what Arab Computers call their "Main Office", which is actually a small house in a residential area. Anyways, I meet with Mr. Zaa'zaa, but this time he told me he had never confirmed the replacement offer, backing away from the promise he made a couple of weeks ago. However, he said that they're still discussing my issue with their parent company in Dubai. He also told me that I'll have to follow up my issue with Mr. Abdulmajeed Al-Shakaki, Arab Computer's Head Technician. I was finally told that I'll have to check back with them the next day to get their "final" answer.

When I checked back with Mr. Al-Shakaki the next day, he outright denied the existence of such a replacement offer. I tried to talk to other employees at Arab Computers, but no one at was willing to help me, and even Mr. Zaa'zaa denied his involvement in my issue. They wouldn't even let me talk to their manager, Mr. Amjad Matar. At that point, I had no choice but to attempt to elevate the issue.

Late October - November 2007

On October 31, I called Apple Customer Relations in the United States using Skype to explain my situation to them. The customer relations representative I talked to seemed genuinely willing to help resolve my issue, and to get my machine replaced. However, she told me that Apple Customer Relations in the US don't deal with issues from IMC countries, and that I'll have to contact Apple Customer Relations in the UK. Despite that, she said she will attempt to resolve my issue on her end and gave a case number.

On November 15, after numerous attempts, I finally managed to call Customer Relations in the UK. Unfortunately, they also claimed that they don't deal with issues from IMC countries. So I asked them who at Apple does deal with IMC countries, I was told that that no one at Apple Europe deals with IMCs. I was also told that Apple does not have any jurisdiction over IMCs. However, after some arguing, they offered to attempt to contact Arab Computers to investigate my issue.

Unfortunately, neither Apple in the US or in the UK were able to contact Arab Computers by phone. In the mean time, the customer relations representative in the US was still contacting me by e-mail to follow up with my issue. It was until November 29 when I got hold of the cell phone number of Arab Computers' Manager, Mr. Amjad Matar. I gave him a call. I explained my situation to him, and he gave me an appointment to meet with him on December 5 at Arab Computer's "Main Office".

December 2007

December 5, I met with Mr. Amajd Matar for the first time. Mr. Matar denied any knowledge of a replacement offer, and claimed that replacing my machine was never an option to begin with! I told him about Mr. Zaa'zaa, and Mr. Matar claimed that Mr. Zaazaa doesn't have the privileges to make such an offer, so Arab Computers is under no obligation to replace my machine. However, to make up for all the trouble I've gone through, Mr. Matar offered a 6-month extended warranty on my MacBook Pro, and if any technical issue arises during the period of the warranty, he'll personally have my machine replaced with a new one. When I asked for the extended warranty documentation, he claimed that there's an "approval number" in their system and that there is no need for a warranty document.

Even though I was very unsatisfied with the solution presented by Mr. Matar, I had no choice but to take the offer. As it seemed that Apple has supported Arab Computers on their "decision" not to replace my MacBook Pro according to an e-mail I received from Apple Customer Relations (In other words, Apple supported Arab Computers on bailing out of their promise). So I took back my MacBook Pro, which I had not seen since September 2nd: 3 months of lost productivity.

January - April 2008

Over the next few of months, some more technical issues started to show up: The battery behaving erratically; not holding charge for more than half-an-hour, a ticking noise coming from the left side near the fan after several hours of usage, caps-lock and num-lock LEDs light up spontaneously when leaving the machine idle for several minutes, and uneven display backlighting. In addition to the high-pitched buzzing noise from under the keyboard. So on April 26 2008, I decided to call Mr. Matar directly, to inform him of the new technical issues of my machine. While he acknowledged the warranty, he denied offering a replacement during our last meeting, claiming that he would never make such an offer! However, he said he will contact Apple Europe to ask for a replacement.

May 2008 - Now

It wasn't until May 25 that I heard anything meaningful from Arab Computers (Mr. Matar would not return my calls or reply to my e-mails). I received a call from Arab Computers telling me that they have received a replacement for my MacBook Pro, and that I could come at any time to pick it up. I couldn't believe what I heard, I thought it was finally over.

I guess I was too optimistic. I came to them the next day on May 26, and they showed me the "replacement" machine: It was an open box MacBook Pro of the same model, scratched up, no accessories or software, and without Apple's standard warranty. This wasn't what I had in mind at all, this was just completely ridiculous. Even more ridiculous is the fact that Mr. Matar insisted that the machine is "brand new". The MacBook Pro I was offered can't be considered a new machine by any standard. Even Apple's refurbished machines come sealed in a box with new accessories and software, in addition to Apple's standard warranty. Offering a used machine as a replacement does not comply with Apple's own warranty policy. It specifically states that the replacement machine is "new or which has been manufactured from new of serviceable used parts and is at least functionally equivalent to the original product".

That's where things ended at the moment. To sum things up:

- My MacBook Pro has been taken in for repair 8 times, spent more than 4 months in total, and had 7 parts replaced. It still has several technical issues left.
- Arab Computers failed multiple times to provide any form of meaningful service.
- Arab Computers also failed to deliver on their promise of replacing the machine twice.
- While Apple Canada has been very helpful, their final response left me unsatisfied.
- Apple Customer Relations were also quite helpful, but their final response was very disappointing.

As you can tell by now, I'm completely fed up with this whole mess. This whole experience has left a very bad taste in my mouth. What do you suggest I do at this point?

EDIT: For completeness' sake, I want to note that at one point Arab Computers have offered me a %25 discount if I trade in my MacBook Pro. But that's after they "decided" not to replace my MacBook Pro for free, so I wasn't willing to take the offer.

digg this (http://digg.com/apple/A_Mac_User_in_Saudi_Arabia_Two_Years_of_Support_Horror)



carlosbutler
Jun 2, 2008, 10:22 AM
you have had some really bad luck there. what you could do next time you meet anyone to do with arab computers is to take a tape recorder or dictaphone in with you, they are very easily hideable and some can have attachable mics where you can clip anywhere. that way you will never be able to be told something that has not happened.

you may also want to try and claim in some sort of court against arab computers or whatever the name was of the first people you originaly bought the laptop from. there must be somthing saying that they are not sticking to the agreement when you purchased the laptop. read very carefully through the agreement, look online etc. but make sure its against either of the two companies and not against apple as apple (according to what i read) have not really done anything wrong except back out of giving you a new laptop. even if they agreed that over the phone i guess you still need to have a signed document agreeing it, so they never actually broke an agreement.

i dont know why they simply havent replaced the laptop as it must have cost them, including all the hassle and workman hours more, more than just buying a new one for you. they get it at trade price anyway.

you may also want to tell the manager bloke that you will take the new laptop but not as a replacement, you may be able to sell it on. doubt that would be accepted though. you could equally state that if you dont take it, he is unable to sell it on as it isnt new (well maybe he will after all this crap) and would not be able to do anything with it.

but somthing that you should certainly do is to have a dictaphone. you may also want to try and do as many calls over skype, that way you are also able to record them (i guess) on to the computer so you can use it as evidence.

hope that helps
carlos

fussal
Jun 2, 2008, 02:50 PM
Wow....

I feel for you... that's incredible....

Did you have apple care on that machine, or that extended warranty, isn't that supposed to be international?

Meaning that Apple would have to deal with those problems world wide?

I would forward your WHOLE experience to Mr. Steve Jobs again.

That's unbelieveable. It's up to Apple to get their things right. You bought a Mac, not an Acer.

Hope this will get resolved for you to your liking soon and then some.

Cheerio - Fussal

jeremy.king
Jun 2, 2008, 03:23 PM
Doesn't really sound like Apple did anything wrong here...Just two third party companies that don't have the ****** together...

Also, waiting 8 months after finding you suffer from CPU whine probably didn't help the situation.

Edit: Also, shouldn't your employer be fighting this fight? Is it the same MBP they bought for you (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=208200)?

Voidness
Jun 2, 2008, 04:08 PM
Thanks for your replies everyone.

you have had some really bad luck there. what you could do next time you meet anyone to do with arab computers is to take a tape recorder or dictaphone in with you, they are very easily hideable and some can have attachable mics where you can clip anywhere. that way you will never be able to be told something that has not happened.
While that might be a good idea, I'm not sure if it's legal to do so. Also, I shouldn't have to resort to these kind of tactics. I'm just a normal customer.

even if they agreed that over the phone i guess you still need to have a signed document agreeing it, so they never actually broke an agreement.
Indeed. That's how Arab Computers bailed out and didn't deliver on their promise, knowing that my case wouldn't hold a good argument in court.

Did you have apple care on that machine, or that extended warranty, isn't that supposed to be international?
No, I don't have AppleCare. That reminds me, there's another issue regarding the Apple's standard warranty. It seems that Apple and Arab Computers have a different understanding of Apple's warranty coverage.

According to Apple:
Apple offers warranty service worldwide.

According to Arab Computers:
Apple's warranty is not covered in the Middle East. All Apple products purchased in the Middle East are not covered by Apple.

I would forward your WHOLE experience to Mr. Steve Jobs again.
I'm considering that.

Doesn't really sound like Apple did anything wrong here...Just two third party companies that don't have the ****** together...

Also, waiting 8 months after finding you suffer from CPU whine probably didn't help the situation.
Yes. I can't claim that Apple did anything wrong in my case. But Arab Computer are Apple's official representatives in Saudi Arabia, and that's according to an e-mail I got from Apple. Furthermore, In my numerous talks with Arab Computers, they claim that they don't do anything without Apple's direct approval, although I'm not really sure if that's actually true.

Edit: Also, shouldn't your employer be fighting this fight? Is it the same MBP they bought for you?
Yes, that's the same MacBook Pro. But I currently own the machine, as soon as I left the job after summer.

carlosbutler
Jun 2, 2008, 04:52 PM
as you said voidness, you shouldnt need to resort to any of this crap just to try and get a computer fixed. ive had a few problems my self with my alienware laptop, and even after the year warrenty (about one month later) they replaced the screen and motherboard after something happened.

what im getting to is that when you pay a good amount of money, you should damwell get a good service. im hoping to get the 24" imac highest spec, but i just hope tha ti dont have any problems, and if i do i am able to speak to apple easily since im never going back to windows, and if the mac seams to turn out bad im left with linux or nothing :mad::confused:.

im sure you will eventually get it sorted out, and i hope tha ti dont get any problems:p

CanadaRAM
Jun 2, 2008, 05:04 PM
Morals of the story

Insist on getting all promises in writing

If you are having problems, get AppleCare before the year is over

nick9191
Jun 2, 2008, 05:09 PM
Steve to the rescue!

sjobs@apple.com

Hope it all works out for you man, you've had some terrible experiences there. The first gen MBP's were truly awful. If you do get it fixed, I would sell it on ebay and use the money to buy a macbook on your next trip to Canada. Since the macbook would be purchased in Canada that would cover it for international warranty.

Voidness
Jun 2, 2008, 05:31 PM
Morals of the story

Insist on getting all promises in writing

If you are having problems, get AppleCare before the year is over
Yes, that was my mistake. A document of the promise would have solved this issue months ago. But it wasn't possible to get a promise in writing over a phone call, and I honestly didn't expect things to get this complicated.

And for some reason, AppleCare isn't sold in Saudi Arabia. I probably should have bought it from Canada though.

Consultant
Jun 2, 2008, 05:58 PM
Sorry about your problems, but do you not learn after the first repairs, at pickup, check out the machine to make sure everything is ok? Especially after the botched repairs in Saudi Arabia? You also should have gotten things in writing, getting things in writing has helped me at least once.

If you live in the middle east (and also some parts of the world), you would know when dealing with certain people, they don't really have the idea of customer service or "their word". A 2 year project can take more than 6 years and still not completed. People will still barter even after you agreed on a deal. (Although there are also many honorable people in the region).

I would email steve @
and provide the info here. Sum up the total time you have spent and tell them how that has impacted you.

SaudiMac
Jun 3, 2008, 07:17 AM
if it was some gray market then its not apple's fault but Arab computers is an apple authorized service provider .

Voidness, check your PM

emiratesmac
Jun 3, 2008, 09:54 PM
Morals of the story

Insist on getting all promises in writing

If you are having problems, get AppleCare before the year is over

Only partly a solution... we can't buy AppleCare in the ME. If we buy it elsewhere they say they honor it here, but since we can't buy it, it's not offered in stores, it means that most people won't get it, or even know about it.

emiratesmac
Jun 3, 2008, 09:58 PM
Voidness and others, if I can, let me ask how do we get something constructive out of this? I mean, we have discussions about bad service, bad stores, etc. all the time on EmiratesMac.com (http://www.EmiratesMac.com), but I always try to figure out a way that all sides can learn something from it and come to some constructive outcome. For example, how do we get a public dialogue going with these stores, with the distributor, etc? Or is that not something we should be doing?

noodle654
Jun 3, 2008, 10:08 PM
Good lord thats one hell of a story. The problem seems to be the Arab Computing company and that other one. I can understand Apple Canada trying to replace the LB but if it comes back and there is still a problem they should have tried again or something. Those two 3rd party stores should be investigated by Apple. Thats really bad that your computer sat in a shop for a total of 7 months...thats half your original warranty right there.

If emailing Steve Jobs does nothing than does Saudi Arabia have some sort of Lemon Law...or even Canada?

emiratesmac
Jun 3, 2008, 10:11 PM
Doesn't really sound like Apple did anything wrong here...Just two third party companies that don't have the ****** together...

Yes and know, maybe. Let me add this... it depends a bit on what a person's view is of what "Apple" is in the Middle East. They're represented here by ABM or Apple IMC ME, and although they are strictly speaking not Apple, and could be seen as a "third party", in most people's eyes, I think at least, they are Apple. They don't see it as that they walk into an iStyle store, as one example, they walk into an Apple store.

emiratesmac
Jun 3, 2008, 10:14 PM
About Apple warranty coverage in the Middle East, Ghassan Bendali of ABM has clearly stated (http://www.emiratesmac.com/forums/blog/1077-grey-imports-interview-ghassan-bendali-apple-imc-2.html#post2601):
We follow Apple's policies to the letter, so if Apple say that a product is under warranty even if it is grey, we cover it, If they say it is not then we don't. It is important to understand as well, that Apple is a global company and has its own image that they want too keep. We try as much as possible to contribute positively to this image.

Voidness
Jun 4, 2008, 11:03 AM
EmiratesMac,

It would be great if something constructive would come out of this. If my story gets Apple's real attention, perhaps it would serve as a wake up call. From what I experienced with Arab Computers, I think that they definitely are not "contributing positively" to Apple's image in Saudi Arabia. If Apple wants a good image, they need to seriously investigate Arab Computers and their practices. The fact that Arab Computer's main office is a house in a residential area doesn't exactly inspire confidence in them.

Also, regarding Apple's warranty policy, Apple claims that their products are covered worldwide, as I stated earlier. However, Arab Computers doesn't seem to agree. They have told me that they refuse to service Apple products purchased outside the Middle East. They also claim that Apple products purchased in the Middle East are not covered by Apple. This is contrary to my personal experience. My MacBook Pro, purchased from GlobalStore in Riaydh, was covered and repaired by Apple in Canada.

Underworld
Jun 4, 2008, 12:05 PM
I live in Saudi .. and i'm a saudi guy and know how they deal with us here, i'd just advise u .. send ur pro to states .. let someone take to any apple shop there, and explain about the issue u have .. this have worked for me many times .. and learn to purchase from apple.com not from any apple retailer here in Saudi Arabia.

even if u had a written promise, this means nothing, here its so different and u would be going back and fwd in court, trying to solve the issue here u can't do anymore than sending to Steve although we know that they don't support MICs but u might have a shot !! specially if u provided links for what ever u have wrote online (like this thread link)

I wish i can do anything to help


Note: me as a mac customer, i had fed up with these stores we have in here, they buy there supplies from UK and when u call UK to talk about it UK says no we don't deal with MICs.

let me guess the nationallity of the Arab Company manager, Lebanese or Egyptian?

Voidness
Jun 4, 2008, 05:02 PM
Ok, I sent an e-mail to Steve Jobs. Let's see how this goes.

SchneiderMan
Jun 4, 2008, 07:54 PM
LOL Arab computers

SaudiMac
Jun 5, 2008, 06:01 AM
That's strange, on ABM (the IMC) website, they list 2 as Apple's Service Providers in Saudi
http://www.appleme.ae/ara/support/ksa.html

one of them is GlobalStore

applebum
Jun 5, 2008, 01:10 PM
Yes, that was my mistake. A document of the promise would have solved this issue months ago. But it wasn't possible to get a promise in writing over a phone call, and I honestly didn't expect things to get this complicated...


But

So, on October 7th, I visited GlobalStore again. This time however, they claimed that Arab Computers have instructed them not to get involved in my issue any longer, and that I'll have to deal with Arab Computers directly. It was a surprising turn of events. Coincidentally, one of Arab Computers' employees, Mr. Hussam Zaa'zaa, was at GlobalStore at the time. Mr. Zaa'zaa confirmed the replacement offer, and assured me that I'll get the replacement machine before October 10, the last day before "Eid Al-Fitir" Holiday in Saudi Arabia.

So why didn't you get the promise in writing when you saw him in person?

Voidness
Jun 5, 2008, 02:20 PM
That's strange, on ABM (the IMC) website, they list 2 as Apple's Service Providers in Saudi
http://www.appleme.ae/ara/support/ksa.html

one of them is GlobalStore
Yes, I think they've become an Apple Authorized Service Provider in December 2007.

So why didn't you get the promise in writing when you saw him in person?
As I said, it was a mistake. I should gave gotten it in writing. I didn't expect them to back out of their promise.

Voidness
Jun 16, 2008, 05:58 PM
It's been 2 weeks since I sent an e-mail to Steve Jobs. Nobody replied yet. :(

Bwilky
Jun 17, 2008, 01:56 PM
Not saying you did anything wrong, but I would have bought my MBP in Canada. They would have just replaced it the first time around.

SaudiMac
Jun 18, 2008, 04:16 AM
Not saying you did anything wrong, but I would have bought my MBP in Canada. They would have just replaced it the first time around.

If that was the solution then what's the point of those Apple IMC? I still believe that Apple should cancel IMC and sell the macs directly in this region.

danedane5
Jun 18, 2008, 04:22 AM
Why did you purchase a computer in Saudi Arabia when you could have gotten one back home?:)

SaudiMac
Jun 18, 2008, 05:16 AM
Why did you purchase a computer in Saudi Arabia when you could have gotten one back home?:)

Cause Saudi Arabia is "back home" :p

Voidness
Jun 19, 2008, 07:01 PM
Cause Saudi Arabia is "back home" :p
I'm not Saudi :)

Why did you purchase a computer in Saudi Arabia when you could have gotten one back home?:)
I could've, but I absolutely needed one back in June 2006. But why should the country of purchase matter to Apple, as long as I'm buying from a store authorized by them?

Chundles
Jun 19, 2008, 07:07 PM
It's been 2 weeks since I sent an e-mail to Steve Jobs. Nobody replied yet. :(

Send another one. I'd be sending an email every couple of days if I'd had the experience you've had.

Voidness
Jun 19, 2008, 07:20 PM
Send another one. I'd be sending an email every couple of days if I'd had the experience you've had.
If I keep sending e-mails, wouldn't Apple's spam filters block my address?

Chundles
Jun 19, 2008, 07:34 PM
If I keep sending e-mails, wouldn't Apple's spam filters block my address?

I don't see why not - I'm not talking multiple emails per day, just twice a week.

Voidness
Jun 19, 2008, 07:42 PM
I don't see why not - I'm not talking multiple emails per day, just twice a week.
I guess I'll try. The situation can't get much worse than it currently has.

Chundles
Jun 19, 2008, 07:52 PM
I guess I'll try. The situation can't get much worse than it currently has.

Bloody oath you should try - the situation is appalling and must be remedied. I'd be on the phone all the time and emailing too.

Something's gotta give eventually.

orpheus1120
Jun 19, 2008, 08:33 PM
Voidness, I strongly encourage you to persist on. A resolution to your case will serve as a victory to the rest of us in other parts of the world, that no matter where you buy your mac, its standard warranty should be complied and honoured. That must be imperative and undeniable.

If emailing Jobs twice a week doesn't get you anywhere, how about calling Apple Customer Relations? That was an advice someone offered awhile ago here and it seemed it did some good for him. Make sure you grab the name of the customer relation officer and his/her direct contact number and/or email address.

Pushing a consumer case to and forth among departments and companies nowadays is a standard corporate conspiracy to exhaust a consumer's patience and will. So be sure not to bow to such ill-intended cause.

Persevere.

My sympathy is with you.

compuguy1088
Jun 19, 2008, 11:08 PM
I'm not Saudi :)


I could've, but I absolutely needed one back in June 2006. But why should the country of purchase matter to Apple, as long as I'm buying from a store authorized by them?

Then out of curiosity, what is "back home"? Canada or Saudi Arabia?

Underworld
Jun 20, 2008, 02:35 AM
i think u shall send them a link to this post as a reference and also if u wrote this story any where else include a link so they know that u won't stop asking till u get ur right back

still reading and supporting u :)

28monkeys
Jun 23, 2008, 02:13 AM
So..dude, any reply yet?

queshy
Jun 23, 2008, 04:45 PM
W-o-w.

Sounds like you truly went on a journey through Apple hell and back. This is insane. I thought my own story (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=343603) was pretty over the top - but this - this is something on a whole new level.

NOTE: This is a VERY lengthy post.

Which is why I won't quote the entire thing - SNIP SNIP -

Hindsight is 20/20. But I hope this is a lesson for everyone - don't buy a computer at some sketchy place. It seems like the place you bought the computer at is very sketchy. Maybe it's only what's available - which it sounds like it is. Something we all have to understand is that in certain countries there isn't the same demand for computers as there is in say, the U.S.A.

Had you purchased this at Best Buy or whatever, right on the same day as your original purchase you could have just returned it and gotten a new one. Simple. It would have saved you 2 years of hell. But whatever - water under the bridge - you have my sympathy for what happened.

I think this is one of the worst Apple stories I've ever heard.

you have had some really bad luck there.

Luck? Unlikely. Screwed up company? That's where I'd put my $!

Doesn't really sound like Apple did anything wrong here...Just two third party companies that don't have the ****** together...

Apple could have been more helpful - as the OP mentioned he wasn't happy with their solution. However, they were definitely more helpful than ArabComputers!

as you said voidness, you shouldnt need to resort to any of this crap just to try and get a computer fixed. ive had a few problems my self with my alienware laptop, and even after the year warrenty (about one month later) they replaced the screen and motherboard after something happened.

what im getting to is that when you pay a good amount of money, you should damwell get a good service. im hoping to get the 24" imac highest spec, but i just hope tha ti dont have any problems, and if i do i am able to speak to apple easily since im never going back to windows, and if the mac seams to turn out bad im left with linux or nothing :mad::confused:.

im sure you will eventually get it sorted out, and i hope tha ti dont get any problems:p

Agreed. I especially find the fact that the replacement they offered the OP was a used computer - what a joke.

Steve to the rescue!

sjobs@apple.com

Hope it all works out for you man, you've had some terrible experiences there. The first gen MBP's were truly awful.

Indeed, the 1st gen ones were pretty bad as many people continue to say.


It's been 2 weeks since I sent an e-mail to Steve Jobs. Nobody replied yet. :(

Try again - give a shorter message. Whoever reads these e-mails (whether it's jobs or not is not the point here) won't care enough to read your entire story (even though I did because I am interested) - you need to keep it short, just give them the main details and then someone will call you.

queshy
Jun 23, 2008, 04:47 PM
i think u shall send them a link to this post as a reference and also if u wrote this story any where else include a link so they know that u won't stop asking till u get ur right back

still reading and supporting u :)

I'll have to disagree - you think Apple would be willing to help you if they saw this story all over the net for everyone to see? This story being posted online is incredibly bad PR for Apple. Linking them to this site will just anger them and won't get them to replace the mbp any faster.

Underworld
Jun 24, 2008, 01:21 AM
or it can push them to give a happy ending to this story .. by solving it, they show how much they appreciate their customers

just a thought !

Voidness
Jun 25, 2008, 09:01 PM
Thank you all for your responses. :)

No response from Apple at all, and I have no way of telling whether or not they read my e-mails. Looks like I have no choice but to call Apple Customer Relations in the US.

Hindsight is 20/20. But I hope this is a lesson for everyone - don't buy a computer at some sketchy place. It seems like the place you bought the computer at is very sketchy. Maybe it's only what's available - which it sounds like it is. Something we all have to understand is that in certain countries there isn't the same demand for computers as there is in say, the U.S.A.
Here lies the problem. The place I bought the MacBook Pro from, GlobalStore, is a "Premium Reseller" authorized by Apple. Arab Computers are the only authorized Apple service centre and are Apple's official representatives in Saudi Arabia. However, from my experience, I felt that I was dealing with a bunch of dishonest salespeople who lack the concept of customer satisfaction.

What makes things worse is the fact that Apple tries to avoid dealing with issues coming from IMC countries like Saudi Arabia. I heard the same words from Apple Customer Relations in the US and the UK: We don't deal with issues from IMC countries. Who should one contact if they find themselves in a situation like mine?

Had you purchased this at Best Buy or whatever, right on the same day as your original purchase you could have just returned it and gotten a new one. Simple. It would have saved you 2 years of hell. But whatever - water under the bridge - you have my sympathy for what happened.
My experience with Best Buy has been excellent so far. They don't have a branch in Saudi Arabia, though.

I think this is one of the worst Apple stories I've ever heard.
It is the worst experience I've gone through. There are 8 computers from different manufacturers in my household, bought over the last 6 years. These include HP, Dell, Toshiba, Fujitsu Siemens, and custom built. I never had to deal with anything like this.

i think u shall send them a link to this post as a reference and also if u wrote this story any where else include a link so they know that u won't stop asking till u get ur right back

still reading and supporting u
I'll have to disagree - you think Apple would be willing to help you if they saw this story all over the net for everyone to see? This story being posted online is incredibly bad PR for Apple. Linking them to this site will just anger them and won't get them to replace the mbp any faster.
I haven't sent them a link to this post, yet. I don't know whether Apple is aware of it or not. Would bad PR pressure Apple to help me out? Or would it make things worse?

wako
Jun 26, 2008, 06:50 AM
i honestly dont think emailing steve jobs would do much in this case...


it honestly doesnt seem that Apple did much wrong in this. Although some people do get replies from them it is usually because their computer has failed and going through first party channels (Apple) failed them. This on the other hand just seems like resellers just totally screwed you over.

kingmohd84
Jun 26, 2008, 05:20 PM
it just gives you a taste what does middle-east(and other people around the world) get buying from global companies with no local suppport. Customer service is 0. I had experience with another "official" apple dealer in the middle-east, he used to multiple any software price by 2 and sell it to me. So if i want quicktime, quicktime costs $24? then it will cost me $48.

Add to that that computers here from apple are sold for around $300-400 extra, at least i would say. No customer suppport, nothing.
I blame you for not buying it from canada, at least you had the option, think of the rest of the customers who are stuck with this.
Can any one imagine living in the USA ,buying a computer from over there, and sending it for repair all the way over to Japan for repair, paying shipping too? I had similar experience with xbox 360.

If I was you I wont fight much either, time is precious in my life, and I wont kill myself and get angry and ruin my nerve system over this. I would buy another and save myself the trouble (if you make enough money to get another one)....

but if you feel like getting back at them, oh please do...
I would say take it to the next level with the media, the media always takes it next level. I am sure if you send emails to some networks and newspapers one of them will pick it up.
Given you are foreigner in arab land getting bad treatment, that would sound extra delicious to them.

You will do us all a favor if Apple take out their authorization from those lying hypocrites, and put them all out of job. You will also make us all have better service here in the middle east.
Add to that, in broader sense maybe other companies will think about how their customers are being treated in the untapped market of the middle east.

queshy
Jun 27, 2008, 06:24 PM
COMMENTS IN BOLD!
Thank you all for your responses. :)

No response from Apple at all, and I have no way of telling whether or not they read my e-mails. Looks like I have no choice but to call Apple Customer Relations in the US.


Here lies the problem. The place I bought the MacBook Pro from, GlobalStore, is a "Premium Reseller" authorized by Apple. Arab Computers are the only authorized Apple service centre and are Apple's official representatives in Saudi Arabia. However, from my experience, I felt that I was dealing with a bunch of dishonest salespeople who lack the concept of customer satisfaction.

I understand. So you thought it was a reputable place since it's "official". Everybody makes mistakes...now you know.

What makes things worse is the fact that Apple tries to avoid dealing with issues coming from IMC countries like Saudi Arabia. I heard the same words from Apple Customer Relations in the US and the UK: We don't deal with issues from IMC countries. Who should one contact if they find themselves in a situation like mine?

You did the right thing. But I would have gone nuts after maybe one month. I dont know how you handled two years of this! If you read my story that I linked to, I didn't let this go on for so long. You needed to put your foot down way earlier. Looks like being more civilized as you did didn't get very far unfortunately.
My experience with Best Buy has been excellent so far. They don't have a branch in Saudi Arabia, though.

I've heard tons of horror stories about BB, but when it comes down to it, they have a normal return policy. In the US they have a restocking fee if not defective, but in Canada where I live, even if its not defective you can return it. BB and Future Shop have some of the best return policies I've seen.
It is the worst experience I've gone through. There are 8 computers from different manufacturers in my household, bought over the last 6 years. These include HP, Dell, Toshiba, Fujitsu Siemens, and custom built. I never had to deal with anything like this.
I sure as heck HOPE this is the worst experience you've gone through! I wouldn't wish this experience upon my worst enemy!


I haven't sent them a link to this post, yet. I don't know whether Apple is aware of it or not. Would bad PR pressure Apple to help me out? Or would it make things worse?
As I said, it's a hit or miss. It might just piss Apple off. Face it, most of these replies are negative. You attract more bees with honey than with vinegar...I say don't show Apple this link. Keep us posted...

superman193
Jun 28, 2008, 02:11 PM
COMMENTS IN BOLD!

As I said, it's a hit or miss. It might just piss Apple off. Face it, most of these replies are negative. You attract more bees with honey than with vinegar...I say don't show Apple this link. Keep us posted...



Hell, apple probably has drones going through all these rumor sites... Jobs is probably watching this thread evolve. I can picture his face getting red'r and red'r:eek:

kingmohd84
Jun 28, 2008, 03:52 PM
In the middle of his millions of customers world wide
I really dont think steve will pay attention to 1 customers over 1 laptop problem.

but as I said you can take it up a level and try to embaress apple in the media, then they might do something

Voidness
Jun 30, 2008, 12:16 PM
I just got off the phone (Skype, actually) with Apple Customer Relations in the US. As expected, they said they can't do anything about my situation. They suggested that I speak with AppleCare Europe. I'm going to call them now.

superman193
Jun 30, 2008, 02:58 PM
I just got off the phone (Skype, actually) with Apple Customer Relations in the US. As expected, they said they can't do anything about my situation. They suggested that I speak with AppleCare Europe. I'm going to call them now.

Would you mind posting the conversation with ACR U.S and Applecare Europe? that way some of us could hear what kind of crooks apple is being. They made the computer. They let crooks like Arab computers service them, its like there in on the deal... Let all the IMC countries get the models that might of fell of the assembly line or the refurbished models that they call 'new'. All three (Apple, Global whatever, and Arab computers) are being complete retards. Has anyone been to arab computers website? They don't even list apple as one of there partners.

PS; Looked up there address, it is in a residential area.

Just my 2 cents

Voidness
Jul 2, 2008, 03:15 AM
Good news! I just received a call from Apple Executive Relations in response to my e-mails to Steve Jobs. She told me that Apple will have my MacBook Pro replaced when I come to Canada next month. She apologized that Apple cannot replace my MacBook Pro here in Saudi Arabia due to local laws regarding customs, and the fact that Apple does not operate directly in IMC countries.

I took the opportunity to raise my concerns regarding their IMC program and the bad name it's giving for Apple. She assured me that Apple aware of these concerns and that they're working hard on a solution for IMCs.

Let's see how this goes :)

orpheus1120
Jul 2, 2008, 05:31 AM
That's good news Voidness!

Keep us all updated with the replacement once you get back to Canada.

queshy
Jul 2, 2008, 05:46 AM
Good news! I just received a call from Apple Executive Relations in response to my e-mails to Steve Jobs. She told me that Apple will have my MacBook Pro replaced when I come to Canada next month. She apologized that Apple cannot replace my MacBook Pro here in Saudi Arabia due to local laws regarding customs, and the fact that Apple does not operate directly in IMC countries.

I took the opportunity to raise my concerns regarding their IMC program and the bad name it's giving for Apple. She assured me that Apple aware of these concerns and that they're working hard on a solution for IMCs.

Let's see how this goes :)

Great, looks like we're now getting somewhere.

And no, I don't think Steve Jobs is reading this thread, as another poster suggested.

Think about how busy he is...lol. Unless MR is his hobby, who knows?

For all we know he might have already posted here under a fake account. In fact, maybe I am Steve Jobs!

Bloomedis
Aug 15, 2008, 01:27 AM
Great, looks like we're now getting somewhere.

And no, I don't think Steve Jobs is reading this thread, as another poster suggested.

Think about how busy he is...lol. Unless MR is his hobby, who knows?

For all we know he might have already posted here under a fake account. In fact, maybe I am Steve Jobs!

queshy is Steve Jobs.

queshy
Aug 17, 2008, 08:28 AM
Damn, my cover is now blown :cool:

Voidness
Sep 3, 2008, 07:28 PM
UPDATE September 4th:Well, I expected to be in Canada a month ago. Unfortunately, I had to stay in Saudi Arabia. It also seems unlikely that I'll be in Canada anytime soon, maybe by December or even next summer. Earlier today I was on the phone with Apple Canada Executive Relations, and their only solution is to wait until the next time I'm in Canada. They are unable to ship a replacement MacBook Pro to me due to Saudi Arabia's own laws and custom regulations.

Abu Tech
Sep 9, 2008, 09:59 PM
I cant believe the awful experience you have had! I really do hope you eventually get everything sorted! I am moving to Saudi Arabia soon and was considering getting a new mac from over there but but after reading this thread I think I will buy it here in the UK as at least I will have the UK warrenty to fall back on. I just hope all my electrical equipment works there as im not sure what voltage everything operates at in the KSA. UK electrical goods run at 220v.

OnlyMe
Nov 15, 2008, 12:18 PM
I live in Saudi Arabia, and I was planning to buy Mac pro. However, when I read your story I freaked out.
I believe we all should raise our complained to apple demanding solution……..
Because not everyone could go to US or UK and in your case Canada... I can't….
--
And the service here is so horrible . Here you either take it or leave it. And the costumer is one who’s always wrong ….!!!!( I hate salesmen)
-----
I’m so happy that you finally have a good closer . And that you didn’t give up( I would give up in the second shot)…
Good luck receiving your second Mac

SaudiMac
Dec 8, 2008, 01:12 PM
I live in Saudi Arabia, and I was planning to buy Mac pro. However, when I read your story I freaked out.
I believe we all should raise our complained to apple demanding solution……..
Because not everyone could go to US or UK and in your case Canada... I can't….
--
And the service here is so horrible . Here you either take it or leave it. And the costumer is one who’s always wrong ….!!!!( I hate salesmen)
-----
I’m so happy that you finally have a good closer . And that you didn’t give up( I would give up in the second shot)…
Good luck receiving your second Mac
my personal recommendation is to buy it from itechia, they import the Macs directly from a US based distributor so their macs are under the international warranty and not IMC. They also hired Apple certified technicians as they also handle service and support directly.

Voidness
May 28, 2009, 03:52 PM
May 28, 2009: I'm typing this on a brand new 2.4GHz Unibody MacBook Pro! Apple have agreed to arrange a replacement here in Saudi Arabia, after I contacted Apple again back in March. It took Apple more than 2 months to arrange the deal with their local representatives, much longer than expected.

I'm very grateful to Apple. I'm really glad this is finally over. :):D

EDIT: I just noticed that I posted the original post nearly a year ago! :)

SaudiMac
May 30, 2009, 04:32 PM
May 28, 2009: I'm typing this on a brand new 2.4GHz Unibody MacBook Pro! Apple have agreed to arrange a replacement here in Saudi Arabia, after I contacted Apple again back in March. It took Apple more than 2 months to arrange the deal with their local representatives, much longer than expected.

I'm very grateful to Apple. I'm really glad this is finally over. :):D

EDIT: I just noticed that I posted the original post nearly a year ago! :)

yes, it's about time, (http://bit.ly/9br70) really ...

What about the warranty? do they cover the machine for the next 12 months? :D