Can anyone tell me what I need to make split screen videos?

[stringtheorist]

I'm driving myself demented trying to find a compatible hardware/software solution to produce movies using simultaneous split-screen capturing (2 cameras). Can anyone suggest a software + camera combination that will produce decent quality images (Apple iSight or better) and allow me to fully edit the movie into a finished product, with titles, etc.?

Thanks in advance.

[Sdashiki]

People have asked this question before...but you need to be more specific.

Are you trying to capture something from 2 angles and then have them edited to play side by side?

Is this going to be a live thing or are you capturing 2 videos and cutting them together?

If you want to edit decent video, youll need a good source. A Mini-DV camcorder is a good start. And be sure that both the cameras are of the same quality, or better yet, the same model to keep the images even looking.

[stringtheorist]

Are you trying to capture something from 2 angles and then have them edited to play side by side?


Exactly that. The recording must be simultaneous so that I get perfect synchronization.

If I were to get say, two used Apple iSight cameras, what software could handle the capture and editing of the video?

[Sdashiki]

I dont have an isight so I cant say...but you are the 2nd person to try and use a webcam to do a nice video? You just arent going to get the quality you could from a real camcorder.

With that said, however u capture your video, you will need a cue to sync to (like the "clacker" in the movies) otherwise youll be praying you pressed Record at the same time on both.

[AviationFan]

Is this the same problem/question as in this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=471513)?

If you really, really want to shoot this with iSight cameras, then how about using two Macs in parallel? You can record in perfect synchronization, and move the files from one computer over to the other. Final Cut Express will be a very good editing tool for the side-by-side video.

Having said that, I would still recommend to use two camcorders instead. Borrow or rent them if it would be too costly to purchase them for your production. Ideally, you'd have two identical or at least very similar cameras, to make the looks compatible. Again, FCE will be a good tool for editing. The results will look much better than the iSight images. Also, the fact that you've reserached this topic (recording two iSights at once) for a while now without finding a solution should tell you something! ;)

- Martin

[stringtheorist]

I dont have an isight so I cant say...but you are the 2nd person to try and use a webcam to do a nice video? You just arent going to get the quality you could from a real camcorder.

With that said, however u capture your video, you will need a cue to sync to (like the "clacker" in the movies) otherwise youll be praying you pressed Record at the same time on both.

That's why I'm trying to use webcams or at least digicams that will act purely as image capture devices NOT recorders per se. Recording will be done on the Mac.

[stringtheorist]

Is this the same problem/question as in this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=471513)?

If you really, really want to shoot this with iSight cameras, then how about using two Macs in parallel? You can record in perfect synchronization, and move the files from one computer over to the other. Final Cut Express will be a very good editing tool for the side-by-side video.

Yes, same thread, same problem. As you can see, I have yet to find a solution. I've bought and tried two different webcams (one with good picture, one without) and downloaded a ton of software trial versions trying to come up with a compatible system for doing this, to no avail.

If you're right, FCE will accept two independent input sources and allow me to capture and edit them in the same project? (Sorry but buying a second Mac isn't an option and I can't see how it would make the job easier.)

[LethalWolfe]

If you're right, FCE will accept two independent input sources and allow me to capture and edit them in the same project? (Sorry but buying a second Mac isn't an option and I can't see how it would make the job easier.)

FCE, FCP, iMovie, Adobe Premiere, Avid, etc.,. will all just accept and record one video source at a time.


Lethal

[stringtheorist]

FCE, FCP, iMovie, Adobe Premiere, Avid, etc.,. will all just accept and record one video source at a time.


Lethal

Yeah, that's what I guessed. Back to square one.

[Sdashiki]

I just dont understand this at all.

You want 2 videos of the same scene.

You need 2 ways to record this.

For some reason you are only interested in using a webcam to capture? (yes, the webcam captures, the mac records....in the same way a camcorder captures and the tape records)

If you use 2 webcams, youd need 2 macs. With 2 camcorders, and in essence, 2 tapes, you capture the footage on 1 tape to the mac, then the 2nd tape. Now you have 2 video files you can import into iMovie, FCE, FCP, AE, what have you.

Like all non-linear video editing software, its easy to place one video on one track, another video on another track. Then shrink/move/whatever the videos to give you split screen. Thats the idea behind non linear editing, playing multiple tracks at one time non-destructively.

Whats so hard to understand? :confused:

I think you think the only way to get video onto a computer is to record live?

[stringtheorist]

Point by point:

I just dont understand this at all.
You want 2 videos of the same scene.
Two captures from different angles, yes.


You need 2 ways to record this.
I don't get you.


For some reason you are only interested in using a webcam to capture?
No, if necessary I can use a digicam BUT NOT AS A RECORDER (the Mac is doing that).


If you use 2 webcams, youd need 2 macs.
This is obviously wrong.


Whats so hard to understand? :confused:
You mean, apart from the fact that I still don't have any idea what software I need? Or whether my hardware will work with it?


I think you think the only way to get video onto a computer is to record live?
You're completely missing the point. Can I suggest you go here (http://www.discoverguitaronline.com/videos/browse/essential+riffs) and look at this guy's videos? Then you'll see what I'm trying to achieve.

[LethalWolfe]

Check out this thread over at Apple's discussion forums (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1405159&tstart=611).


Lethal

[stringtheorist]

Check out this thread over at Apple's discussion forums (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1405159&tstart=611).


Lethal

You can only record movies in QT Pro. I'd presumably still need another editor to bring them together. I don't think this is possible in iMovie. Surely the owner of that website must have simply used a single application and a pair of cameras?

[LethalWolfe]

You can only record movies in QT Pro. I'd presumably still need another editor to bring them together. I don't think this is possible in iMovie. Surely the owner of that website must have simply used a single application and a pair of cameras?
Yes, once you have the movies recorded using QT you can use FCE to edit them together to get the split screen effect that you want. Or you can buy a plug-in package for iMovie, such as this (http://www.stupendous-software.com/Stupendous/SplitScreenPiP/Pages/SplitSideBySide.html), to get a split screen effect.


Lethal

[AviationFan]

Hi stringtheorist,
If you're right, FCE will accept two independent input sources and allow me to capture and edit them in the same project?Capture? No, that's not what I meant. Just one at a time.
Edit? Yes, it'll let you do that.

I believe what everybody is suggesting to you is to use two real cameras, cameras that have a tape, a hard drive, or something similar to record the footage. Then capture the footage, i.e. move the recorded video data into the computer, one camera at a time.

Or, if the Quicktime Pro route that was suggested earlier works (haven't had a chance to try it out): Use that program to record the two videos, and then use FCE to edit. You would need both programs.

- Martin

[Sdashiki]

This is my last post in this thread as the OP just isnt even capable of doing anything with my posts...

Why are you insisting that you must record to a mac? What kind of reasoning is that? Digital video is just that, a digital file of a video.

How do you get that file onto your computer so you may edit it (in Final Cut, After Effects, iMovie etc etc, I suggested this already but you seem to have missed that) is the problem I think you are struggling with...

You do not need to hit record on your computer and point a camera at something to get a digital video file on your machine.

If you want to have a webcam hooked up to your computer and record, fine. But you would need a SECOND computer to record the second webcam. AFAIK you cant use 2 webcams at the same time...if this is what you want, google more....EDIT: seems the above link to the apple discussion can answer that.


2 angles = 2 recordings = 2 video files = 2 ways to record

the best way to get 2 videos is with 2 video camcorders. These will record your 2 angles onto 2 tapes. Then when you are done recording, you would use your video app of choice (see above for numerous examples) to capture the footage from the tape to your computer.

then you would edit your 2 files, sync them up and do whatever it is you want to make them split screen.

if you are asking "is there an application to do all this for me?" the answer is a resounding no. You do not need to record this LIVE for any reason. Its only going to complicate things.

[stringtheorist]

This is my last post in this thread as the OP just isnt even capable of doing anything with my posts...

Why are you insisting that you must record to a mac? What kind of reasoning is that? Digital video is just that, a digital file of a video.

How do you get that file onto your computer so you may edit it (in Final Cut, After Effects, iMovie etc etc, I suggested this already but you seem to have missed that) is the problem I think you are struggling with...

You do not need to hit record on your computer and point a camera at something to get a digital video file on your machine.

If you want to have a webcam hooked up to your computer and record, fine. But you would need a SECOND computer to record the second webcam. AFAIK you cant use 2 webcams at the same time...if this is what you want, google more....EDIT: seems the above link to the apple discussion can answer that.


2 angles = 2 recordings = 2 video files = 2 ways to record

the best way to get 2 videos is with 2 video camcorders. These will record your 2 angles onto 2 tapes. Then when you are done recording, you would use your video app of choice (see above for numerous examples) to capture the footage from the tape to your computer.

then you would edit your 2 files, sync them up and do whatever it is you want to make them split screen.

if you are asking "is there an application to do all this for me?" the answer is a resounding no. You do not need to record this LIVE for any reason. Its only going to complicate things.
So what you're saying is that you think the chap with the guitar videos used two separate computers and two cameras to record one clip? I don't think so. Clearly it IS possible to capture more than one webcam/video input source simultaneously on the same machine. I even downloaded a trial version of Capture Magic which does just that but it supports only firewire-equipped cameras and I didn't own one at the time.

I don't know why you keep missing the point I've made several times that I cannot record two separate files and then try to edit them together later so they synch up perfectly. That's why I need to capture two input sources SIMULTANEOUSLY.

Can't do anything with your posts because you're not reading/understanding my requirements. Did you even look at the link?

[LethalWolfe]

So what you're saying is that you think the chap with the guitar videos used two separate computers and two cameras to record one clip? I don't think so.
No, the guy probably used two different cameras recording to two different tapes then edited them together. What you want to do, take two separate FW video sources and record them at the same time on a single computer, isn't a very common thing at all which is why there is some confusion and we haven't been able to give any easy, absolute answers.


Lethal

[Dr. Rengers]

Why do you want to capture them realtime at the same time? Why not just use two camera's and use something like a photocamera flash to sync them in post?

I did a lot of multicam projects using this method.

[stringtheorist]

No, the guy probably used two different cameras recording to two different tapes then edited them together. What you want to do, take two separate FW video sources and record them at the same time on a single computer, isn't a very common thing at all which is why there is some confusion and we haven't been able to give any easy, absolute answers.


Lethal

OK, that's obviously your opinion but I disagree. I imagine professional video productions companies/filmmakers do this all the time and I expect the majority of them use Macs.

[stringtheorist]

Why do you want to capture them realtime at the same time? Why not just use two camera's and use something like a photocamera flash to sync them in post?

I did a lot of multicam projects using this method.

I'm trying to produce guitar instruction videos. Proper synchronization is important. It's hard enough playing the same piece exactly the same way twice, harder still to synch up two separate recordings.

[Dr. Rengers]

OK, that's obviously your opinion but I disagree. I imagine professional video productions companies/filmmakers do this all the time and I expect the majority of them use Macs.
afaik they don't. They use a timecode generator to "feed" all their cameras an external timecode so that they can sync it later after capturing.

I'm trying to produce guitar instruction videos. Proper synchronization is important. It's hard enough playing the same piece exactly the same way twice, harder still to synch up two separate recordings.
That what you use the flash for, to sync the two cameras later.

[AviationFan]

I imagine professional video productions companies/filmmakers do this all the timeSorry, stringtheorist, but you are wrong. Multiple video streams get captured individually and synchronized either through timecode or visual reference (such as a slate). If you need cameras to be synch'ed such that the beginning of each frame is exactly the same, that is possible using a technology called "genlock".
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genlock
To my knowledge, that's more important for live broadcast than anything else, but I guess I can't rule out that for your side-by-side guitar video it may be helpful. At any rate, I doubt that with two iSights recorded into one Mac you'd be able to guarantee that type of hard beginning-of-frame synchronization. And if you want genlock-capable cameras, holy cow, you got to spend some serious money!

- Martin

[LethalWolfe]

OK, that's obviously your opinion but I disagree. I imagine professional video productions companies/filmmakers do this all the time and I expect the majority of them use Macs.
And you disagree based on what? Years of working in the video industry? The vast experience you have working on multi-camera shoots? The in-depth knowledge you have about how web cams are used in professional video production environments?

I'm trying to produce guitar instruction videos. Proper synchronization is important. It's hard enough playing the same piece exactly the same way twice, harder still to synch up two separate recordings.
Actually it's pretty simple to sync up two separate recordings of the same event. It's also pretty simple to sync up video and audio of the same event that have been recorded onto separate devices.

When you come asking for help it's best not to start acting like a know-it-all dick to the people trying to help you.


Lethal

[ChristiB]

Hi

Hope it is proper etiquette to ask a similar question on this thread.

I need to figure out a way to record a web video conversation using split screen recording on my mac. I know that there is a Skype program that does this, but the quality of Skype video is poor (compared to, for example iChat video).

Does anyone know if this can be done with a recording software? Or does this need to be accomplished in editing software?

I could either use my iSight camara, or a digital camcorder, and the person at the other end would be using either... depending on what they have.

I am a total beginning with video, so please, any advise would be helpful.

[stringtheorist]

And you disagree based on what? Years of working in the video industry? The vast experience you have working on multi-camera shoots? The in-depth knowledge you have about how web cams are used in professional video production environments?


Actually it's pretty simple to sync up two separate recordings of the same event. It's also pretty simple to sync up video and audio of the same event that have been recorded onto separate devices.

When you come asking for help it's best not to start acting like a know-it-all dick to the people trying to help you.


Lethal
I apologise if I came off sounding rude but the other guy just didn't seem to be reading my posts at all, and since I already know there are programs available to allow you to manage two input sources simultaneously I felt this was the way it was done by the pros. I'll defer to AviationFan's obviously greater knowledge on the subject.

[stringtheorist]

Sorry, stringtheorist, but you are wrong. Multiple video streams get captured individually and synchronized either through timecode or visual reference (such as a slate). If you need cameras to be synch'ed such that the beginning of each frame is exactly the same, that is possible using a technology called "genlock".
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genlock
To my knowledge, that's more important for live broadcast than anything else, but I guess I can't rule out that for your side-by-side guitar video it may be helpful. At any rate, I doubt that with two iSights recorded into one Mac you'd be able to guarantee that type of hard beginning-of-frame synchronization. And if you want genlock-capable cameras, holy cow, you got to spend some serious money!

- Martin
Fair enough. Too bad I didn't get to try Capture Magic before the trial expired. I suppose I could just pay for it and give it a go. Or I could do what you're suggesting and record two takes of the piece and hope I can make the streams match up.

[LethalWolfe]

Genlock when shooting is really only needed when you are live mixing multiple cameras. For situations where you are recording for later editing you just need a way to sync the footage up (such as a camera flash, a hand clap, or timecode sync on more expensive cameras). I've worked on lots of multi-camera stuff (from weddings to reality TV shows) and it's all been shot, sync'd up perfectly using an audio/visual cue or TC, then edited. The audio might come from Camera A while the video of the person talking is from Camera B and the sync is perfect.


Lethal

[AviationFan]

For situations where you are recording for later editing you just need a way to sync the footage up (such as a camera flash, a hand clap, or timecode sync on more expensive cameras). I've worked on lots of multi-camera stuff (from weddings to reality TV shows) and it's all been shot, sync'd up perfectly using an audio/visual cue or TC, then edited.I fully agree with you, Lethal - my own experience is just like what you described. What I was trying to say when I brought up genlock was that with a side-by-side view of two images, I am curious what the impact of the delta in frame start times is. Could be up to 1/60th of a second for NTSC. That doesn't sound like much, but still, if you see two images with some kind of motion side by side and they differ in time by 1/60th of a second, I just wonder if that could be noticable, especially for the kind of video that the OP is trying to do (where I assume viewers will study the motion in great detail).

- Martin