Mac OS X 10.6 Called 'Snow Leopard', All Cocoa?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Arstechnica reports (http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/06/04/mac-os-x-10-6-code-named-snow-leopard-may-be-pure-cocoa) on more details about the next major version of Mac OS X (10.6). According to the news site, the next version of Mac OS X will indeed be an Intel-only release and that it is code named "Snow Leopard".

Ars can also confirm the expected release target of January 2009 as well as a focus on speed and stability:Snow Leopard is currently on track to come out during next January's Macworld, and it will not contain major OS changes. Instead, the release is heavily focused on performance and nailing down speed and stability. The author points to future mobile devices as the driving force behind this focus on performance and stability. There is also a suggestion that Apple may move Mac OS X 10.6 to "Cocoa-only", but the full meaning of this remains vague: There may be some disagreement here as to what exactly "Cocoa-only" means, so take that into account when thinking about this. For example, Apple may only axe Carbon UI stuff.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/06/04/mac-os-x-10-6-called-snow-leopard-all-cocoa/)

[motulist]

Speed and stability are really what's needed. I applaud Apple for focusing on the bread and butter of the OS instead of trying to tack on more flashy features to sell the sizzle.

[bbrosemer]

The name snow leopard makes sense if the only upgrades are to speed and stability for the OS

[Cromulent]

Getting rid of Carbon would break a hell of a lot of software including most of Apples software. I'm not sure how much I would trust that rumour even if it is only the UI stuff that is removed. Especially seeing as Core Foundation is technically a Carbon API but is part of the Cocoa frameworks as well.

[Sky Blue]

Just seems ... weird. They've sold the updates on the new features since 10.2. I can hope for Exchange support, I guess.

[iDAG]

Okay, if this is going to be an update like 10.1 was to 10.0, does that mean everyone with Leopard will get this for free or will we have to pay another $129 just like with every other major update?

[Berzerker]

It's NOT GOING TO BE Snow Leopard.

Cougar and Lynx are the only two names unused by Apple that they have trademarked. Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, Leopard, Lynx, and Cougar. Lynx for 10.6, Cougar for 10.7 or vice versa, then on to OS 11.

For the love of god, stop playing guessing games. It's all common sense.

[G4DP]

So those of us with new Chips will actually be able to see the benefit.

I wonder if they'll bother with SSE4. support let alone anything else.

[bug67]

I guess it really is time to start thinking about retiring the ol' G5 :(

[Nutter]

Core Foundation is not a Carbon API. Core Foundation underlies both Carbon and Cocoa.

These days, most parts of Carbon that aren't deprecated are UI-related.

[ilogic]

snow leopards come out in january:rolleyes:

[speakerwizard]

bye bye ms office, bye bye photoshop, not a likely rumor

[Tsurisuto]

Is it me, or does anyone else think that 10.6 sounds like being an 'interim update' before Apple release OS 11? (Maybe summer 2010).

[network23]

A 12-18 month release schedule makes this possible. If it were 2+ years since Leopard, Apple would be pounded by the media and users alike for not providing new features.

I am sure there will be new features, but nothing major so as to insert instability. Most likely enhancements and extensions to existing features.

[Azurael]

Pretty sure Apple promised they wouldn't be dropping support for PPC in 10.6.

Then again, they also promised they'd never use integrated GPUs... Or drop features from the iPod. :D

[morespce54]

Dargn... forget my posts in the previous tread...
no ppc, stability and security... sheeesh, that's really exciting... not...

[tfredvik]

The name snow leopard makes sense if the only upgrades are to speed and stability for the OS

But does it make sense to do a speed and stability upgrade only? That sounds like a 10.5.X, not a 10.6! Has a new version of Mac OS (or Windows or a Linux distribution for that matter) ever been released with nothing new to offer? I think both the strange two words cat name and the lack of new features are both very unlikely...

[seashellz]

"...speed and stability..." Now theres a novel idea...

What ever became of the "imminent release" of 10.4.12?

[mogzieee]

Get in!!

In time for WWDC? Hope so...


And I thought it was gunna be called Lynx??

[decimortis]

I kinda like the ring of 10.6 Battle Cat

[Half Glass]

Geez...that better be the code name only. But it needs to have more features that matter to the average joe than under the hood security and speed features.

Sometimes I wonder why I got so excited about Leopard when I could be running Tiger just fine. A new 10.6 would need something worth buying in it for those who don't make a living on their Macs and need more speed.

--HG

[Tom B.]

For the last time!!! It's NOT GOING TO BE Snow Leopard.
Wow, calm down, did you even read what the article said?

it is code named "Snow Leopard"


It makes sense for it to be Intel only. I hope it will be, so that they can remove all of the PPC code. As for the 'no new features' thing, I don't mind, as long as Leopard has Resolution Independence by then.

[Cromulent]

For the love of god, stop playing guessing games. It's all common sense.

It is all a guess until it has been announced.

Lynx for 10.6, Cougar for 10.7 or vice versa, then on to OS 11.

Hmm then you go on to make the biggest guess going by saying Apple will release OS XI after 10.7. Pot meet kettle.

[abijnk]

The name snow leopard makes sense if the only upgrades are to speed and stability for the OS

You are right, that would make a lot of sense.

However, that means I can run Snow Leopard on my Macbook Air *cringes*
come one Apple, perhaps a little better naming schemes! :p

I wonder if the idea that this update could be so specifically pointed helps support the rumors of a new mobile device at all, Arn??

[ilflyya]

For the last ********* time!!! It's NOT GOING TO BE Snow Leopard.

Cougar and Lynx are the only two names unused by Apple that they have trademarked. Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, Leopard, Lynx, and Cougar. Lynx for 10.6, Cougar for 10.7 or vice versa, then on to OS 11.

For the love of god, stop playing guessing games. It's all common sense.

It will be really funny now if you're wrong. Curb the language :eek:

I really like the fact that Mac wants to constantly evolve their OS and products. I've already wasted 8 years of my life with MS and their stagnant OS's, only to upgrade to versions that aren't any more stable. If I'm going to spend my money anyhow, might as well be for something better, not worse, or require huge hardware requirements!

[oli2140]

. Or drop features from the iPod. :D

What features have they dropped?

[MacsRgr8]

If true, then I wasn't too far off..!! :cool:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=493377&page=9

So, the average time between releases might be 12-18 months, but it is pretty clear Apple have slowed down a lot.
I'm pretty sure 10.6 won't be availabe less than 2 years after the release of Leopard....
unless... unless... 10.6 will be a necessary x64 only, with major new features which Apple really want to show-off, and therefore actually have 2 operating systems available on its store.
10.6 x64 only and Leopard for everyone else, which will stay fully supported, and might get a few 10.6-features, but certainly nor more than a few (think of ZFS etc.)
;)

[Digitalclips]

For the last ********* time!!! It's NOT GOING TO BE Snow Leopard.

Cougar and Lynx are the only two names unused by Apple that they have trademarked. Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, Leopard, Lynx, and Cougar. Lynx for 10.6, Cougar for 10.7 or vice versa, then on to OS 11.

For the love of god, stop playing guessing games. It's all common sense.

As a matter of interest have they trade marked any other groups of animal names that might give a hint to OS 11? Bird types might work well, OS 11 Kestrel, 11.1 Hawk, 11.2 Eagle .... (Anything but dogs or monkeys :eek:)

[Cromulent]

Core Foundation is not a Carbon API. Core Foundation underlies both Carbon and Cocoa.

Core Foundation is a renamed Carbon API. I forgot what but if you follow the Apple Carbon mailing list it will be in the archives.

[darklyt]

As long as it's free, they can not add "new" options all they want. Just improve the current ones and make my computer zippier. All the speed and security improvements make sense if it goes to Intel only because they can optimize so much of the code. Also, the January 2009 release date becomes more believable too.

[ArtOfWarfare]

I preferred the ideas of liger and thunder cats.

http://www.socweb.co.uk/forum/uploads/HandyManPhill/13D_thundercats.jpg

Edit:

Finally it's revealed what took the bite out of the apple logo all those years ago!

[fastbite]

It makes perfect sense. They are aiming to change the landscape not by improving bits and bobs but redefining the mobile landscape. The age of totally new better and fresher stuff is over simply because they are jumping into a new world, NOT building the old one.

[darwinian]

it's not as if the only two choices for the cost of this are 'free' and '$129'. They could deviate from this, as these are very strange reports.

[Cromulent]

As long as it's free, they can not add "new" options all they want. Just improve the current ones and make my computer zippier. All the speed and security improvements make sense if it goes to Intel only because they can optimize so much of the code. Also, the January 2009 release date becomes more believable too.

If it was free I would eat my hat. Highly unlikely.

[milo]

I'd love to see apple focus on stability and performance for a while with minimal new features.

But I don't get why they'd give it a new version number if it's just bugfixes. Nor would people be happy to pay $129 if it's just a service pack. Now, if they're going to give it away free to 10.5 owners since it's just bugfixes, now you're talking.

I'm very skeptical about dropping any carbon support, much less all of it. Apple seems to be in no hurry to update their apps to 64/cocoa.

[three]

I think this is a fake rumour, do you think Apple would really drop Carbon and PowerPC support? Also I don't want to shell out another $130 for a new operating system.

[Quillz]

When they say there won't be any "major OS changes," I think they mean with the underlying kernel technology. As in, what we saw in 10.5 will remain the same in 10.6. (After all, we don't have 128-bit computing yet.)

However, I do think 10.6 will still add new features. Maybe nothing huge like Time Machine or Spaces, but there are still things that could be improved, such as a real Finder, maybe themes, etc.

[Azurael]

What features have they dropped?

Err... Firewire. Where were you when the 5G was released?

And don't tell me it doesn't matter. USB is technically rubbish, causes much higher CPU load for the same data transfer even if modern implementations can almost keep up with FW, and the connectors are mechanically rubbish too.

[Bakey]

I guess it really is time to start thinking about retiring the ol' G5 :(

If the rumour is indeed true then why the hell would you want to buy, buy a G5??

Shouldn't it be "bye, bye G5"?? :rolleyes:

[milo]

What ever became of the "imminent release" of 10.4.12?

When was that ever reported? I thought it was pretty clear that 10.4.11 was the end of the line.

It makes sense for it to be Intel only. I hope it will be. As for the 'no new features' thing, I don't mind, as long as it has Resolution Independence by then.

Isn't RI a feature?

[Eraserhead]

If they do this I'm switching to Windows. Dropping Carbon completely would be the worst. move. ever.

Steve Jobs needs to go sooner than Ballmer if he things that is a good move.

[RoboCop001]

Hmm.... 10.6 for mainly a stability and security upgrade. That I wouldn't mind.

Because they'd focus entirely on that, maybe adding/enhancing only a few new features.

But then, I guess if that were to be true, 10.7 would benefit from that greatly. They can focus on small back end improvements, and really big awesome front end features! And that'll be in 2010, maybe before Windows 7 comes out.

Hmm... Windows 7 and 10.7, interesting lol

[bluebomberman]

I feel burned. Faced with a dying hard drive in my iMac G5, I chose to replace the drive and buy Leopard instead of getting a new Mac. That was like two months ago.

Yeah, I know that I can run Leopard indefinitely and still have email and web and all that stuff, but I'm also enough of an enthusiast to want the latest and greatest.

Although if I want to look at this a bit more rationally, the cost of my upgrades was only $200 and change (hard drive, Time Machine backup drive, and Leopard). :o

[WildCowboy]

Cougar and Lynx are the only two names unused by Apple that they have trademarked. Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, Leopard, Lynx, and Cougar. Lynx for 10.6, Cougar for 10.7 or vice versa, then on to OS 11.

For the love of god, stop playing guessing games. It's all common sense.

They abandoned the Lynx trademark in December, leaving only Cougar.

[Peace]

I might add that the cocoa framework is great for layers being used now like Front Row , Quicklook and....Multi-Touch.

[Moonlight]

I kinda like the ring of 10.6 Battle Cat

Hmmm.. I guess 10.6 Cringer doesn't work as well ?? ;)

[prostuff1]

I have not read up a lot on the 10.6 rumors but i don't see it likely that they will be dropping PPC entirely. I can see them dropping the G4 but not the G5. I mean really, there are Quad core G5 still out there that should still be able to run the next major release of the OS. I see 10.6 being PPC and Intel but 10.7 moving to Intel only.

I know my current iMac G5 runs Leopard just fine and i can't see why it would not handle 10.6 decently either.



And about 10.6 being released in January... I don't see that happening. I think it is to soon for a major release, but a lot can change in that time i guess. To be honest i would not mind seeing Apple move to an every 2 year cycle for major OS releases.

[Admonitor]

They're going to charge people for "speed and stability"?

[oli2140]

Err... Firewire. Where were you when the 5G was released?

And don't tell me it doesn't matter. USB is technically rubbish, causes much higher CPU load for the same data transfer even if modern implementations can almost keep up with FW, and the connectors are mechanically rubbish too.

Sorry, I hadn't gone fully 'iPod' at that time. The 5G was my first iPod. By the way, I wasn't trying to stir things up with that previous question...

[Quillz]

If they do this I'm switching to Windows. Dropping Carbon completely would be the worst. move. ever.

Steve Jobs needs to go sooner than Ballmer if he things that is a good move.
Wouldn't it be just as bad a move as 10.5 dropping Classic? Wasn't Carbon always designed to simply be a stepping stone, from Classic to Cocoa?

[Dorfdad]

Wait so 10.6 is going to offer NO new features, its going to be a faster and bug free version of 10.5?? This sounds like a service pack or an extension of 10.5 why the hell should we pay for 10.6 when they should be fixing the bugs and speed for 10.5...

LAME so far not impressed..

[Diode]

I feel burned. Faced with a dying hard drive in my iMac G5, I chose to replace the drive and buy Leopard instead of getting a new Mac. That was like two months ago.

Yeah, I know that I can run Leopard indefinitely and still have email and web and all that stuff, but I'm also enough of an enthusiast to want the latest and greatest.

Although if I want to look at this a bit more rationally, the cost of my upgrades was only $200 and change (hard drive, Time Machine backup drive, and Leopard). :o

What there was a time when Apple phased out the 680x0 chips, then the PowerPC chips. You had to have known when they switched to Intel they would eventually phase out the Gx chips ....

[jprovost]

I can't help but think of Mr. T as a Night Elf Mohawk, storming through forests on his Snow Leopard (Frost Sabre)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqJE5TH5jhc

[mainstreetmark]

"Snow Leopard"? Well, that is interesting isn't it?

Does anyone really have any speed/reliability issues beyond some minor occasional glitches? I mean, I am aware that one scratch ruins a paintjob, but of the issues people have, how many are truly show stopping?

Of course, I use WinXP inside VMWare a lot, which may make OSX feel quite zippy. But, generally, I don't get too many beachball events. I find I'm more aggrivated at the 1 second delay switching between iphone apps.

[Peace]

"Snow Leopard"? Well, that is interesting isn't it?

Does anyone really have any speed/reliability issues beyond some minor occasional glitches? I mean, I am aware that one scratch ruins a paintjob, but of the issues people have, how many are truly show stopping?

Of course, I use WinXP inside VMWare a lot, which may make OSX feel quite zippy. But, generally, I don't get too many beachball events. I find I'm more aggrivated at the 1 second delay switching between iphone apps.

Trust me. Some unreleased apps that use mainly cocoa are very efficient.;)

[Darkroom]

can cocoa do everything that carbon can? so if they axe carbon, than the carbon framework will be no longer? so won't be useful to developers? also, isn't Pages written using a lot of carbon?

Wait so 10.6 is going to offer NO new features, its going to be a faster and bug free version of 10.5?? This sounds like a service pack or an extension of 10.5 why the hell should we pay for 10.6 when they should be fixing the bugs and speed for 10.5...

LAME so far not impressed..

i really can't imagine apple charging 10.5 users for this upgrade, or certainly not full price fees anyway. i think their goal is to make the Mac OS X as strong as possible. if it doesn't offer any new features than not many people are going to be drawn to upgrade.

[Tosser]

Err... Firewire. Where were you when the 5G was released?

And don't tell me it doesn't matter. USB is technically rubbish, causes much higher CPU load for the same data transfer even if modern implementations can almost keep up with FW, and the connectors are mechanically rubbish too.

They also dropped Disk Mode. It's not on the Touch (nor the iPhone).

[hdsalinas]

Cant wait to those ne Snow Leopard wallpapers!

[lord patton]

if this is true, expect to see an all-Cocoa iTunes 8 on Monday.

And I'd expect 10.6 to be free (or cheap) for 10.5 users, $129 for everyone else.

[mainstreetmark]

They're going to charge people for "speed and stability"?

We don't know anything yet. If it's a feature-less update, I doubt it'll be a charge. I also doubt it'll be a feature-less update. Apple will always try to cram some novel thing into the OS and make a selling point out of it, such as with Spaces.

I mean, does Spaces really deserve a spotlight in Leopard? Yes, it's a new feature, but it's not a very big one.

"Mac OSX 10.6 -- Literally 'Just a Few' of New Features"

[hdsalinas]

Cant wait to those new Snow Leopard wallpapers!

[maxrobertson]

It's NOT GOING TO BE Snow Leopard.

Cougar and Lynx are the only two names unused by Apple that they have trademarked. Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, Leopard, Lynx, and Cougar. Lynx for 10.6, Cougar for 10.7 or vice versa, then on to OS 11.

For the love of god, stop playing guessing games. It's all common sense.

You obviously don't understand why they would call this one Snow Leopard then. It makes a lot of sense if you think about it. Also, with the way trademarks work, no company could use the name Snow Leopard to describe an operating system since it's so close to Leopard. They have no reason to trademark it.

Also, everything but the no-carbon (very unlikely) and no powerPC (pretty unlikely due to the PA Semi buyout) part sounds almost plausible. Think about all the features in OS X that don't work entirely properly or aren't available to the user, like resolution independence, Quartz Extreme 2D (or is it Quartz GL?), FTP, the Finder, etc. This would be a great way for them to tie all those loose ends together. Release it for maybe $59 or somewhere around there and make OS X a lot more cohesive. The reason none of those features ever really got fixed is because they aren't marketable features and therefor would be less important than the huge ones like Time Machine.

[blugel]

i understand the desire to drop ppc support as well x32 for performance reasons, but i was one of the fools who bought the first intel iMac to come out (ie, 32-bit). i know i can drop a 64-bit processor in it, albeit with some work, but i've been holding off, not thinking it would make that big a difference and planning on buying a new machine within the next two years. this decision, though, if true, may sway me to do it.

[mr.fancypants]

I kinda like the ring of 10.6 Battle Cat

Wow, that's awesome.

On a different note, um, shouldn't Apple offer free stability upgrades for the software I just paid $129 for—instead of selling it as a new OS?

Sheesh.

[JonasLondon]

Buy Buy, G5 - I guess it really is time to start thinking about retiring the ol' G5 :(

That should have been "Bye, bye G5" then methinks...

[Cromulent]

Wait so 10.6 is going to offer NO new features, its going to be a faster and bug free version of 10.5?? This sounds like a service pack or an extension of 10.5 why the hell should we pay for 10.6 when they should be fixing the bugs and speed for 10.5...

LAME so far not impressed..

It is a rumour. We don't know anything.

[Eraserhead]

Wouldn't it be just as bad a move as 10.5 dropping Classic?

No, because that was given due time.

Wasn't Carbon always designed to simply be a stepping stone, from Classic to Cocoa?

Sure, but major applications such as Photoshop and MS Office still use it.

If Apple wants their latest OS to be incapable of running MS Office they can go right ahead.

Announcing they'll remove it after 10.6 or after 10.7 at this years WWDC would be reasonable however.

[Peace]

Wow, that's awesome.

On a different note, um, shouldn't Apple offer free stability upgrades for the software I just paid $129 for—instead of selling it as a new OS?

Sheesh.

It will be a new O/S..We don't know what features it will have. Only idle speculation. I do believe we will see some of them Monday.

[PlaceofDis]

It's NOT GOING TO BE Snow Leopard.

Cougar and Lynx are the only two names unused by Apple that they have trademarked. Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, Leopard, Lynx, and Cougar. Lynx for 10.6, Cougar for 10.7 or vice versa, then on to OS 11.

For the love of god, stop playing guessing games. It's all common sense.

because they can't trademark anything else evar again!

:rolleyes:
learn to calm down.

oh and i don't know what to make of this to be honest. it'd be a quick update in my book, considering they were focusing on the longer end of the 18 month update before, but that does fit okay if Leopard would've been released as planned and not pushed back. its interesting to say the least.

i guess we'll find out soon enough.

[minik]

How about bobcat? Snow Leopard sounds like Slow Leopard.

iTunes 8 baby

[bdkennedy1]

I don't have a PPC anymore but I have a friend that does and I think it's sad if they drop support for it with 10.6. He has a PowerMac dual G5, which has yet to be pushed to it's full 64 bit potential.

Not to mention that G5 owners that bought Macs as late as the beginning of 2006 are screwed.

[Nutter]

Core Foundation is a renamed Carbon API. I forgot what but if you follow the Apple Carbon mailing list it will be in the archives.

I don't see how Core Foundation can be a renamed Carbon API, since it's specifically designed to re-implement many classes from Foundation Framework in such a way that they can be used from both C and Objective-C. (Toll-free bridging.)

In any case, it doesn't matter what Core Foundation was, only what it is.

From Apple's Core Foundation (http://developer.apple.com/corefoundation/) page:


Core Foundation provides the fundamental data types and essential services that underlie both the Cocoa and Carbon environments on Mac OS X. To accomplish this, Core Foundation defines a set of C-based programming interfaces derived conceptually from the Cocoa Foundation framework.

[dr_lha]

Wouldn't it be just as bad a move as 10.5 dropping Classic? Wasn't Carbon always designed to simply be a stepping stone, from Classic to Cocoa?
The difference is that major Mac software packages still use Carbon, e.g. Office and Photoshop. You can't drop support for Carbon because of those.

I'm sure Apple would love to simplify their lives by removing Carbon, but any version of Mac OS X that doesn't run Office is not a version I can ever use.

[ilflyya]

As a matter of interest have they trade marked any other groups of animal names that might give a hint to OS 11? Bird types might work well, OS 11 Kestrel, 11.1 Hawk, 11.2 Eagle .... (Anything but dogs or monkeys :eek:)

I think Poodle and Golden Retriever would be great! Then when they transition between the two... OS Golden Doodle! :p

[mikeytrend]

I have not read up a lot on the 10.6 rumors but i don't see it likely that they will be dropping PPC entirely. I can see them dropping the G4 but not the G5. I mean really, there are Quad core G5 still out there that should still be able to run the next major release of the OS. I see 10.6 being PPC and Intel but 10.7 moving to Intel only.

I know my current iMac G5 runs Leopard just fine and i can't see why it would not handle 10.6 decently either.



And about 10.6 being released in January... I don't see that happening. I think it is to soon for a major release, but a lot can change in that time i guess. To be honest i would not mind seeing Apple move to an every 2 year cycle for major OS releases.

I can see them dropping PPC, not because the computers can't handle it, but if they're focusing on stability and speed, they want to use the computers that will ship with this OS, and if they only have to work on one processor, they only need one team of people working and it probably saves them a bunch of compatibility issues and things can be coded in a more efficient way for an intel processor.

However, if this release is only bug fixes than I see it more as an upgrade and people with leopard shouldn't have to pay that much more, but it's not apple's style to release more than one version of an OS. It'd be disappointing if these fixes weren't given to leopard users because people have been quoted as leopard becoming the new standard and staying that way for possibly the next ten years.

[Eraserhead]

The difference is that major Mac software packages still use Carbon, e.g. Office and Photoshop. You can't drop support for Carbon because of those.

I'm sure Apple would love to simplify their lives by removing Carbon, but any version of Mac OS X that doesn't run Office is not a version I can ever use.

Since I believe they've dropped the Lynx trademark having this as the last cat and dropping PPC/32 bit/Carbon next time would make some sense, and they'd need to give a lot of warning for doing that.

[billandy]

if it's merely a performance and stability upgrade, i bet it will be free as a download to all 64-bit leopard owners! can't wait!!!

[bdkennedy1]

Why are you jumping to all of these conclusions? Apple hasn't said anything yet.

Wait so 10.6 is going to offer NO new features, its going to be a faster and bug free version of 10.5?? This sounds like a service pack or an extension of 10.5 why the hell should we pay for 10.6 when they should be fixing the bugs and speed for 10.5...

LAME so far not impressed..

[nep61]

It's NOT GOING TO BE Snow Leopard.

Cougar and Lynx are the only two names unused by Apple that they have trademarked. Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, Leopard, Lynx, and Cougar. Lynx for 10.6, Cougar for 10.7 or vice versa, then on to OS 11.

For the love of god, stop playing guessing games. It's all common sense.

Thank you for MAKING Sense...

Reading ALL the rumors and speculation about the future of Apple / Mac / iPhones etc. gets a little crazy... Glad to read something with a little, "head-screwed-on-straight" perspective.... Thanks

[Ade-iMac-177]

Huh?

if they get if of carbon then doesn't that mean no photoshop, Microsoft office and a bunch of other popular software?

and since when has apple followed that sort of business plan? - i very much doubt that apple will do this especially as it seems to just be a costing service pack!

it may only be the mobile platform for the iphone - snow leopard does sound like a form of "Leopard Lite".

[e-coli]

Snore. As you were. Move along. Nothing to see here.

If Apple plans on charging for "speed and stability" and a reduced number of supported computers / software it would represent foolishness of epic proportions.

[rml4uk]

Scwhing! I, along with a few other people, definitely called that it would be called Snow Leopard!!!

[SkippyThorson]

Did anyone believe this crap? Really?

Did anyone catch the "CODE NAME" portion, or did we all have mini-attacks while reading those 2 words. Whoever just starts assuming that the next OS is really going to be named Snow Leopard is just lost without a paddle. People would walk into an Apple store, see the box on a shelf with the picture of a soft white kitty and laugh. It makes some sense with the white snow leopard desktop background I admittedly like, but really... Apple is minimalistic, if you haven't gathered that - single named OS X's will not change.

Let's all exhale while reading rumors until next week, shall we? :)

[Peace]

Huh?

if they get if of carbon then doesn't that mean no photoshop, Microsoft office and a bunch of other popular software?

and since when has apple followed that sort of business plan? - i very much doubt that apple will do this especially as it seems to just be a costing service pack!

it may only be the mobile platform for the iphone - snow leopard does sound like a form of "Leopard Lite".

didn't Adobe announce a couple months ago that they wouldn't be doing a 64-bit version of their apps next update?

Do you think there might be a reason why? Like re-doing it for Cocoa? ;)

[Santa Rosa]

"...speed and stability..." Now theres a novel idea...

Thats exactly what Leopard is like at the moment. The 10.5.3 update was excellent in my opinion. Leopard has been brilliant on my end on 2 different Macs. The recent update just solidified that.

So what are you going on about? You tried using Vista recently. Everyone who has a Mac on here should be thankful and the ones that complain should stop, give Vista a whirl.

[spaz8]

I would now be surprised at all if 10.6 is Intel-only and all cocoa.. apple has been trying to make devs migrate to Cocoa from carbon with bigger and bigger sticks with nails in them.. dropping carbon 64 was a big one.. dropping PPC forces ppl to buy new hardware and cleans up these "ultra dense universal binarys" where a dev has to have support all these skews... PPC 32, 64, intel 32, 64..

But i'd also love to see ZTS..

[KurtangleTN]

Aren't "." updates spoused to be stability and performance upgrades?

I just think paying $120 for an OS that is practically just a big bug fix is ridiculous.

[Obi-Wan Kubrick]

Snow Leopard which would focus on Intel makes a lot of sense. I don't think they would call it 10.6 but who knows. Cougar and Lion are the last two big cats. They could probably use Lion last.

[FoxyKaye]

Wait so 10.6 is going to offer NO new features, its going to be a faster and bug free version of 10.5?? This sounds like a service pack or an extension of 10.5 why the hell should we pay for 10.6 when they should be fixing the bugs and speed for 10.5...
Given how lovely 10.5 Server is performing on our organization's Jan 2008 XServe, if Apple really goes this route they can expect one hell of a pissed off phone call from me in January. Especially if they want me to buy it again.

That said, unless this year's WWDC is going to be extra-supercalifragilistic, my guess is that this is less of a "rumor" and more "wild speculation" at this time. It just doesn't make sense given the delays releasing 10.5 and Apple's previous line re: slowing down major OS X releases. As far as I can tell, Apple's also given no heads-up to developers on this either (although since most of them are bound by a NDA, this is speculation on my part), and there isn't anything in the WWDC promotional materials that would point in this direction.

[bytethese]

Snow Leopard? After already having Leopard? Sounds the dumbest effen name! Sheesh! :)

Bring on Cougar or something. Hell, Battle Cat sounded awesome maybe even Lion-O!

lol, I can picture my Macbook Pro starting up: "Thunder, thunder, thundercats...HOOOOOOOO!" leading into my password screen. :)

[David G.]

Everyone remember Tiger on Intel? Why can't Apple have Leopard on Intel only? That way the Macintel users could have the extra speed benefits without making all of the PPC users feel forgotten. Kind of goes against only one OS though.

[Mac OS X Ocelot]

Repackaging Leopard and selling it to people that already own it? Brilliant.

P.S. April Fools was two months ago, please stop with these joke rumours.

[Rot'nApple]

Okay, if this is going to be an update like 10.1 was to 10.0, does that mean everyone with Leopard will get this for free or will we have to pay another $129 just like with every other major update?

Or conversely, since I don't have 10.5 Leopard installed (still with 10.4 Tiger), does that mean I need to upgrade to Leopard 10.5 to upgrade to Leopard Snow 10.6 or can I jump to Leopard Snow 10.6 if I decide to upgrade? :confused:

[joseph2166]

It's NOT GOING TO BE Snow Leopard.

Cougar and Lynx are the only two names unused by Apple that they have trademarked. Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, Leopard, Lynx, and Cougar. Lynx for 10.6, Cougar for 10.7 or vice versa, then on to OS 11.

For the love of god, stop playing guessing games. It's all common sense.

Just because they haven't trademarked Snow Leopard yet, doesn't mean they won't.

It would definitely be a move from the past however - the first double-barrelled name.
Snow Leopard might be the codename for a big 10.5.4? Or maybe a break from the full $129 updates towards cheaper, smaller updates in the future (whilst they start work on OS XI)

Wait so 10.6 is going to offer NO new features, its going to be a faster and bug free version of 10.5?? This sounds like a service pack or an extension of 10.5 why the hell should we pay for 10.6 when they should be fixing the bugs and speed for 10.5...

LAME so far not impressed..

Once again, the ability of people to get annoyed at rumours is astounding!

[FreeState]

Bird types might work well, OS 11 Kestrel, 11.1 Hawk, 11.2 Eagle .... (Anything but dogs or monkeys :eek:)

Oh come on I like OSX11.1 - Chihuahua (Cross marketed with the new Disney Chihuahua film of course :P )

[bluebomberman]

What there was a time when Apple phased out the 680x0 chips, then the PowerPC chips. You had to have known when they switched to Intel they would eventually phase out the Gx chips ....

I thought I'd have more time - based on the release history of Mac OS X and the trend towards longer stretches between releases, I figured the next Mac OS X would come in late 2009-sometime 2010. I don't think anybody projected a OS X stability upgrade - that hasn't been done since 10.1, and that was largely because 10.0 was considerably less functional and usuable than Leopard.

[Yebot]

A January (Winter) release for Snow Leopard would be pretty cool. Speed. Stability & Multi-Touch.


I'd still like to see Mac OS X Lion though...


Of course, a name is just a name. Its the guts that make it great.

[TheSpaz]

Snow Leopard? Lamest name EVER!

How about Mac OS X Leopard 2... anything but Snow Leopard.

How about calling it "The Real Leopard" or "The Leopard You Wanted The First Time" or "Lep-you-ard" (similar to how Steve pronounced Jaguar)

[macmike47]

It's NOT GOING TO BE Snow Leopard.

Cougar and Lynx are the only two names unused by Apple that they have trademarked. Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, Leopard, Lynx, and Cougar. Lynx for 10.6, Cougar for 10.7 or vice versa, then on to OS 11.

For the love of god, stop playing guessing games. It's all common sense.

LOL.

This reminds me of those posts early Jan saying. "For ****s sake there is NO WAY THEY WILL CALL IT MACBOOK AIR!!!"

[dr_lha]

Why are you jumping to all of these conclusions? Apple hasn't said anything yet.
Because this site is called MacRumors?

[Santa Rosa]

Oh come on I like OSX11.1 - Chihuahua (Cross marketed with the new Disney Chihuahua film of course :P )

OS X Ratatouille. Cant wait to be booting up that bad boy :rolleyes:

[Sky Blue]

Man, if these rumors are true this thread is going to rival that original iPod thread for "lol Apple would never do that" laughs.

[rml4uk]

They should call it Cringer, which was Battle Cat's non-battle name. Haha. I don't know what it would be cringing from though, since OS X is obviously far superior to all other operating systems and dominates them in every aspect. Muah hahahaha!!! ;)

[Mousse]

How about bobcat? Snow Leopard sounds like Slow Leopard.

I vote for Ocelot.:cool: It's a pity they already used the biggest cat (Tiger) already--now it's time to go small. Ocelot, the small big cat.:cool:

It's got the lowest body temperature at rest of any big cat, making it the coolest cat.:cool::)

[ert3]

So basically this version is to drop support for PPC.

Is this a move away from tiger?

Either way it seems like there is no real need for the update so don't worry about me buying your copy.

If they really want to increase functionality then why not just release 10.5.4 instead of 10.6

[Preclaro_tipo]

Snow is just a modifier to Leopard, if it is just speed and stability it will be cheap or free for Leopard users.

I wouldn't mind being rewarded for having and intel only mac. for one, i'd like to have all the processor supports removed for a leaner OS (like I am too nervous to do myself with monolingual).

I really feel like it have been a whirlwind since 10.1 or so. So many new features and architecture changes for os x since it switched from os 9 and switched to intel and added core*. I think it wouldn't hurt to have a long time frame with the 'same' os. XP wasn't great when it came out but support for it is so fantastic it makes Vista difficult to swallow so no OS should get as comfortable as XP did but yeah, I wouldn't mind sticking with Leopard 3 more years. The thing is, I took a pounding when I upgraded to leopard. I lost functionality of my HP 1012 laser printer (2 years is about all the support you can expect from HP) and my HP 5550C flatbed scanner, both with Tiger drivers....Both F*&*%'ed in Leopard.
So that is where I am coming from.

I'm in.

[Stridder44]

I guess it really is time to start thinking about retiring the ol' G5 :(

The G4/G5's were fantastic cpu's in their time, and have served us well, but yes, it's time to let them go out with a bang.


Again though, can we some UI changes? The gray on gray thing is so boring. And I'll be damned if I'll ever install that Shapeshifter crap.

[ju5tin81]

I know it may sound naive, but when Our Lord and Master Said 'It's True' and announced the move to Intel, I thought this was so we could take advantage of all the latest tech.... Forever!

He then announced 'Universal' Apps that ran on everything.

This, I thought, meant we were future proofed!

Faster Power PC processor comes along in 2010 or so, 3 times Intels latest 12 Core whatyamecallit, and we can jump to that, then back again if another Intel or ARM or Nvidia (Always with the Graphics ;) ) comes along that can double that performance etc.

Aren't we rather burning our bridges by dropping stuff that we might one day need?

[Santa Rosa]

If they really want to increase functionality then why not just release 10.5.4 instead of 10.6

Its called making money, something Apple are very good at at the moment.

[bluebomberman]

Repackaging Leopard and selling it to people that already own it? Brilliant.

Price has not been announced. I don't think Apple's going to sell this for $129 for all users - I'm guessing we'll see something closer to the "crossgrades" they offered for Pro apps from PPC to Universal.

[Digital Skunk]

Screw Snow Leopard, what about Black Panther, if we are going to pull names from previous versions of the OS?

[Virgil-TB2]

Err... Firewire. Where were you when the 5G was released?...Technically, that's a hardware choice not a "feature." The features of the iPod remained the same, but the hardware implementation of those features changed.

[CaryMacGuy]

Ok, if this is really true, then Steve Jobs has gonna crazy...
This type of release used to be called Mac OS X 10.5.4.

I don't think they are going to waste a release on "bug fixes"

I think 10.6 is going to be a Windows 7 killer.

[joseph2166]

Price has not been announced. I don't think Apple's going to sell this for $129 for all users - I'm guessing we'll see something closer to the "crossgrades" they offered for Pro apps from PPC to Universal.

Price has not been announced - in fact nothing has been announced!

[FreeState]

I mean, does Spaces really deserve a spotlight in Leopard? Yes, it's a new feature, but it's not a very big one.

Spaces is huge for me - I use it all day long every day. I had used hacks before but none of them worked as well as Spaces does IMHO. As a graphic Designer it is a God send for screen real-estate.

[Nano-tube]

Yep... if this is true it's time to go intel.
I think that they are doing the right thing - speed and stability is always in demand and if they are doing a complete overhaul of the OS for this purpose and making it more optimized for newer hardware - it's a good thing.

I plan to buy the new Mac Pro with Nehalem (codename) CPU. Combined with a optimized OS it should be a significant leap from my current G5. Not to mention whatever GPU it will have compared to the old Radeon 9600 :p

What I find funny is the debate around what type of cat code name it will have! Who cares?! :D
:apple:

[Rot'nApple]

How about bobcat? Snow Leopard sounds like Slow Leopard.

Since this is under Steve Jobs watch, instead of "Snow Leopard", how about "Snow Job"?! :p

[ashjamben]

here's my view of this...

why can't this be 10.5.x?

if the focus is on security and stability then i'd be pretty annoyed if me, using leopard, was left behind in terms of security and stability and was forced to pay for an upgrade for basically the same OS, but safer and better performance wise.

i know that may not make sense, but the jist of it is there.

[decimortis]

So essentially Snow Leopard fixes Slow Leopard.

You could call it OS X 10.6 Banana Hammock and I'd still grab it if it sped up my machine.

[Santa Rosa]

Spaces is huge for me - I use it all day long every day. I had used hacks before but none of them worked as well as Spaces does IMHO. As a graphic Designer it is a God send for screen real-estate.

Right with you there, I only started using it a while back, but ever since - kick ass feature.

[FoxyKaye]

Aren't we rather burning our bridges by dropping stuff that we might one day need?
The dark side of the Force is a path to many abilities, some considered to be... unnatural.

I still think this as well, but I'm fairly convinced that Apple doesn't. Universal Binaries are a tool for a moment in time, just as "Fat Binaries" were back in the day. It's going to be harder and harder for Apple to maintain two separate codebases in OS X releases moving forward - the days of PPC are waning, and their people are sailing West to the Undying Lands. We'll be lucky if/when the real 10.6 is released if it supports G5.

[Eraserhead]

didn't Adobe announce a couple months ago that they wouldn't be doing a 64-bit version of their apps next update?

Do you think there might be a reason why? Like re-doing it for Cocoa? ;)

But that is for CS5 which is due a year after this OS, and there is also MS Office which won't be going 64 bit for a long time.

[Santa Rosa]

Since this is under Steve Jobs watch, instead of "Snow Leopard", how about "Snow Job"?! :p

Just think for a moment what the sort of sounds like lol :D Maybe not the wisest of paths that one!! :p

[FoxyKaye]

Screw Snow Leopard, what about Black Panther, if we are going to pull names from previous versions of the OS?
Now you're talking!

[ju5tin81]

You could call it OS X 10.6 Banana Hammock

Thanks Princess Bonswayla ;)

[milo]

I would now be surprised at all if 10.6 is Intel-only and all cocoa.. apple has been trying to make devs migrate to Cocoa from carbon with bigger and bigger sticks with nails in them.. dropping carbon 64 was a big one.. dropping PPC forces ppl to buy new hardware and cleans up these "ultra dense universal binarys" where a dev has to have support all these skews... PPC 32, 64, intel 32, 64..

Yeah, there's one dev in particular that has been lousy about moving to cocoa and 64 bit...they do both pro apps and stuff for newbies...I think it's something like..."apple"?

The G4/G5's were fantastic cpu's in their time, and have served us well, but yes, it's time to let them go out with a bang.

In their time? The quad G5 is still a great machine, and more powerful than many of the machines apple is shipping now.

[Virgil-TB2]

I have not read up a lot on the 10.6 rumors but i don't see it likely that they will be dropping PPC entirely. ...This is a fairly common strategy when bridging such a divide as PPC to intel though.

You have a new release of the OS with all the features that runs on the old hardware, albeit with caveats and a few limitations.

You then create an almost identical product that runs on the new hardware that takes advantage of the new hardware more.

That way, everyone moves to the new product and usually the new hardware, but there is always an almost identical product that mixed-computer shops can use if they need to.

10.6 is the "really" new OS and 10.5 is the please everybody product to fill the gaps left by old curmudgeons and others who haven't changed their computer for five or more years.

Makes sense to me.

[phalewhale]

I haven't had the time to soft through all the responses so far - I'm supposed to be working. All I wanted to say is this...

Does this mean that all of Apple's hardware is gonna go back to being white?
;)

[TheMechanic]

It is only a guess, but maybe Apple will release its first Multi-Touch Macs (or MacBooks or whatever) in early 2009. These would require the OS to be Multi-Touch compatible.
But Apple is not going to ship only Multi-Touch Macs by then, so they need OS X to support Macs with and without Multi-Touch. They could do this by releasing 10.6 (maybe free for existing Leopard users, because it would only be an upgrade to security, stability and speed for them).
In this scenario it would make sense, if they were dropping PPC support, because this release wouldn't add functionality for PPC.

[Lone Deranger]

Well, some claim Steve to be the 'Master of the Universe', so that would work nicely. D'ya reckon he's got a sword? ;)

I kinda like the ring of 10.6 Battle Cat

All kidding aside, I like the sound of a security/stability/speed update. Kudos to Apple if this rumor is true.
Not sure what to think of the axing carbon bit. Sounds like it might once again catch out a lot of developers who've not bothered updating their code.
Then again, it could be the push they need to finally make the leap to cocoa.

[Sam Yikin]

If this turns out to be true, which I doubt, this could sound like a "wrap up" of OS X before something new.... OS XI?
Edit: Meh, that looks funny. OS 11.

[MacsRgr8]

Going back in time...?

Mac OS X without Carbon...? Hey, we've had that before: Mac OS X Server 1.x :D

[john7jr]

The Mac needs a Finder replacement quick. The Finder is the single biggest crapware on the Mac right now. (Spinning beach-ball anyone?) "Cocoa-only" might refer to the rewritten UI... not axing all Carbon support across the platform.

The Next UI for Intel only? I can see it. PPC could still use the Finder, but Intel Macs can use this new UI Finder replacement.

There's my speculation... I only hope we get a copy if we go, cause I'll be in the audience...

[Kilamite]

Now would be a good time to try and copyright "Snow Leopard" - might make you a few bob or two if Apple hasn't snapped it up already!

[Eric S.]

But does it make sense to do a speed and stability upgrade only? That sounds like a 10.5.X, not a 10.6!

Right, but on the one hand it gives Apple an easy way out as far as dropping PPC support. PPC users can be told they can still run Leopard and not miss any essential features. Then when 10.7 comes out everyone will already have accepted that it's Intel-only.

On the other hand, if 10.6 is just a cleanup of 10.5, why shouldn't PPC users have access to it too? Maybe they'll release 10.5.x for PPC, which really has the same stuff; it will just be clear that there will be no PPC going forward.

[Santa Rosa]

This is a fairly common strategy when bridging such a divide as PPC to intel though.

You have a new release of the OS with all the features that runs on the old hardware, albeit with caveats and a few limitations.

You then create an almost identical product that runs on the new hardware that takes advantage of the new hardware more.

That way, everyone moves to the new product and usually the new hardware, but there is always an almost identical product that mixed-computer shops can use if they need to.

10.6 is the "really" new OS and 10.5 is the please everybody product to fill the gaps left by old curmudgeons and others who haven't changed their computer for five or more years.

Makes sense to me.

Microsoft should have seriously hired you lol :rolleyes:. That is a strategy that they really missed!!!

[EagerDragon]

If they drop PPC, that means that 2 to 3 million people will not be purchasing and upgrading the OS.

Speed and stability while important, sound rather boring. What is going to get people to upgrade and shell out $129?

What ever happened to that SUN file system "ZFS" that Apple was playing with?
What ever happened to Resolution Independence?

If it is only speed and stability, why bother showing it to developers? There is nothing new there to show.

Sounds to me like there has to be more than just a speed and stability release, otherwise why not just release 10.5.7 for stability and speed?
:eek:

[FreeState]

It is only a guess, but maybe Apple will release its first Multi-Touch Macs (or MacBooks or whatever) in early 2009. These would require the OS to be Multi-Touch compatible.
But Apple is not going to ship only Multi-Touch Macs by then, so they need OS X to support Macs with and without Multi-Touch. They could do this by releasing 10.6 (maybe free for existing Leopard users, because it would only be an upgrade to security, stability and speed for them).
In this scenario it would make sense, if they were dropping PPC support, because this release wouldn't add functionality for PPC.

This fits my thinking as well. Makes since too - Apple needs to get a multi-touch mac out in the market before Microsoft does if they are gunning for the enterprise market.

[edenwaith]

Meh. I'll only believe this once I hear it from the Apple's mouth.

But when is Microsoft going to release an optimized version of Vista? Seriously, the requirements for Vista to even run half-way decently are ridiculous, which is pretty much requiring people and businesses to purchase new hardware if they want to run Microsoft's latest OS. So if someone really needs to buckle down and optimize the !@%@ out of their system, it should be Vista. I'm able to run Mac OS 10.4.11 on 9 year old Macs, and I'm currently running Leopard on a PowerMac that is 5 or 6 years old. I'm certainly not going to try and put Vista on a 5 year old PC.

[nuckinfutz]

It's not too hard to believe really

Snow Leopard may or may not be the name but having a sort of "mid" upgrade kind of makes sense to me (not at $129)

I'd pay $89 for this.

1. Perfomance optimizing that make my computer feel like it's 400Mhz faster.
2. Not huge ..but substantive improvements to iCal (needs work) and Address Book UI.
3. Better Quicklook support and Quicktime with more codec support.
4. Spaces 1.5 without some of the issues I've read about (granted I don't use it enough yet)
5. ZFS (Read/Write) and Resolution Independence
6. Core Data Multi User
7. Cocoa Touch

Apple wouldn't have to put the marketing effort into like it was a world beater but they'd be able to deliver a half generation jump forward and solidfy Cocoa as the preeminnent API and perhaps ditch PPC.

[Virgil-TB2]

... "Lep-you-ard" (similar to how Steve pronounced Jaguar)You mean the original, correct way to pronounce the word?

That's pretty outrageous of Steve to do that. :mad: I mean what is he? Some kind of accuracy prone guy who cares about proper word pronunciation or something?

;)

[NodyF1]

I vote for Ocelot.:cool: It's a pity they already used the biggest cat (Tiger) already--now it's time to go small. Ocelot, the small big cat.:cool:

It's got the lowest body temperature at rest of any big cat, making it the coolest cat.:cool::)

What about OSX 10.6 Liger - They make Tigers look like domestic house cats!! ;)

[Peace]

Apple has used the word snow before. I see no reason why this would be any different.

[Digital Skunk]

If they drop PPC, that means that 2 to 3 million people will not be purchasing and upgrading the OS.

Speed and stability while important, sound rather boring. What is going to get people to upgrade and shell out $129?

What ever happened to that SUN file system that Apple was playing with?

If it is only speed and stability, why bother showing it to developers? There is nothing new there to show.

Sounds to me like there has to be more than just a speed and stability release, otherwise why not just release 10.5.7 for stability and speed?
:eek:

Good thinking if I must say so. Why release a entirely new OS just for speed and stability? I think they should be putting it into the current one and if there are no new features then where's the need for a new OS?

This fits my thinking as well. Makes since too - Apple needs to get a multi-touch mac out in the market before Microsoft does if they are gunning for the enterprise market.

I would hope that Apple does, but for much of Apple Inc.'s history they have just entered into markets that others have started and tossed things up a bit. I think MS will have their touch gesture tablet out far before Apple, then Apple will release it's version with some new way of doing something, or some flashy OS and people will go crazy.

p.s. If it is just a stability update, then call it 10.6 Healed Leopard, or 10.6 We Fixed it... if you know what I mean.

[cal6n]

*snip*

Finally it's revealed what took the bite out of the apple logo all those years ago!

That secret's been "out" for years...

:cool:

[Mekgek]

Focus on performance and stability sounds great. I'd love to see the following:

- Greatly improved finder
- Resolution independence
- Advanced multi-touch support

If dropping PPC support really improves performance(?) that would be nice too. Another thing maybe the new filesystem (ZFS)

[DMann]

Aren't we rather burning our bridges by dropping stuff that we might one day need?

Ah, but Steve will have a PPC version running secretly in the labs, in parallel existence, just like he did with OSX on Intel.

If this rumor is true, at least bring us resolution independence, ZFS, a tabbed finder, and multi-touch via a transformed mouse with a multi-touch pad. These two features alone would make the upgrade worthwhile.

[saminsocks]

Why does everyone assume that just because a new OS may or may not come out Apple will stop supporting the old ones? I haven't seen any reason to upgrade to Leopard but if a version comes out that'll allow me to do my work more efficiently I may have to get it. PPC support has to last for at least 3 years after they sold the last one, so while PPC users may not have the newest product it doesn't mean they're on their own. And if there really are no real features then people can decide if they want to use 10.5 or 10.6, the only real difference being performance. It seems a little silly to make it 10.6, but I think that's so that it's clear that there's a distinction. Otherwise how will you be able to tell which service update is the one you need? And 10.5 1/2 doesn't really work...

And Photoshop's decision not to release a 64-bit version of CS4 for Mac was announced to have something to do with their going away from Carbon support, so it wouldn't surprise me if it happens soon. Again, I don't think this means that Apple will support Carbon, only that people will have the option to have an OS without the support added, for those who don't need it. I think it would be nice to have an option not to include Rosetta as well. I switched to Mac for its simplicity. And although it's nowhere near as bad as Windows, the fewer features my OS has that I never have need for, the better.

[Burtonsnow9]

didn't Adobe announce a couple months ago that they wouldn't be doing a 64-bit version of their apps next update?

Do you think there might be a reason why? Like re-doing it for Cocoa? ;)

yea if you search for news on cs4 on adobe's site it says that it wont be going to 64-bit with cs4 because apple dropped support for carbon 64 for cocoa.

heres a snip from the site and a link to it as well. scroll down in the article to where it talks about it:

"As we wrapped up Photoshop CS3, our plan was to ship 64-bit versions of the next version of Photoshop for both Mac and Windows. On the Mac Photoshop (like the rest of the Creative Suite, not to mention applications like Apple's Final Cut Pro and iTunes) relies on Apple's Carbon technology. Apple's OS team was busy enabling a 64-bit version of Carbon, a prerequisite for letting Carbon-based apps run 64-bit-native.

At the WWDC show last June, however, Adobe & other developers learned that Apple had decided to stop their Carbon 64 efforts. This means that 64-bit Mac apps need to be written to use Cocoa (as Lightroom is) instead of Carbon. This means that we'll need to rewrite large parts of Photoshop and its plug-ins (potentially affecting over a million lines of code) to move it from Carbon to Cocoa."

It continues to say that it will be cocoa for cs5 though. this may bring some truth to what this rumor is saying, however it is probably referencing moving to cocoa for any 64 bit applications.

check it out for yourself : http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/64bit/

[L3X]

Snow Leopard?!?!?!? come on now. Sounds a little dumb, but i guess it's fitting. I say they stop digging themselves in a hole and start using something other than large cats.

[SWC]

Seems like pretty solid reasoning to call this 10.6. If it is intel only it wouldn't make sense to release it as a 10.5.x since ppc and intel have mirrored each other to this point. 10.6 gives a clear definition that its a seperate release. As far as people bitching about $129 no one has said apple will charge full price or even at all. The only speculation on this has been in forum comments. Until it comesfrom apple don't assume its a full price upgrade.

[Ron Aldrich]

Huh?

if they get [rid] of carbon then doesn't that mean no photoshop, Microsoft office and a bunch of other popular software?

From the Arstechnica post.

Something else that may happen is that Apple may eventually wrap everything in Cocoa—things that are currently only Carbon accessible will be no longer.

Where does that say that they're getting rid of Carbon? It says that things that are currently only available by linking to the Carbon libraries would be made available directly to Cocoa programmers.

As for getting rid of the APIs themselves, it seems more likely to me that Apple would simply re-implement them as wrappers for Cocoa, so that when Cocoa gets updated, Carbon would come along for the ride.

[Dagless]

Speed and stability? *Shrugs* Leopard is ruddy fast and stable on my end. Be interesting to see how much better 10.6 can be. Barring my Wifi problem (takes a while to connect from sleep or boot) 10.5 is solid.

[TheMechanic]

I would hope that Apple does, but for much of Apple Inc.'s history they have just entered into markets that others have started and tossed things up a bit. I think MS will have their touch gesture tablet out far before Apple, then Apple will release it's version with some new way of doing something, or some flashy OS and people will go crazy.


Didn't MS already start this market with pushing those TabletPCs a few years ago? Maybe Apple did not go into it at that time, cause they didn't like the idea of using a stylus. I mean Steve said it in his MWSF07 keynote "Who wants a stylus?"
I think Apple wanted to bring out a TabletMac but they had to develop Multi-Touch first.

[mdriftmeyer]

We had a Pure ObjC Workspace Manager->Finder in Rhapsody that was never released.

The same folks still work at Apple in AppKit and Foundation Kit. It's been a matter of Carbon, not a matter of time to make a Cocoa Finder. This has been in waiting for nearly 10 years.

[Eric S.]

When was that ever reported? I thought it was pretty clear that 10.4.11 was the end of the line.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=448431

[MartiNZ]

I like the idea of a minor, free update in January; it fits with what Steve said around Leopard's release, and it seems like a typical 'moving-forward-and-ditching-the-old' step.

On the name though, I'm thinking someone was just observing it in use, and said "that's-no leopard!"

[RichardI]

Does this mean that Safari will be snappier? :rolleyes:
Seriously, it would be awesome (coming from the Windows world) to see a release who's only aim is to increase performance and stability.

Rich :cool:

[Sky Blue]

Good thinking if I must say so. Why release a entirely new OS just for speed and stability? I think they should be putting it into the current one and if there are no new features then where's the need for a new OS?


If the update is going over 1GB there's no way they can distribute it via software update.

[7on]

If they drop PPC, that means that 2 to 3 million people will not be purchasing and upgrading the OS.

Speed and stability while important, sound rather boring. What is going to get people to upgrade and shell out $129?

What ever happened to that SUN file system "ZFS" that Apple was playing with?
What ever happened to Resolution Independence?

If it is only speed and stability, why bother showing it to developers? There is nothing new there to show.

Sounds to me like there has to be more than just a speed and stability release, otherwise why not just release 10.5.7 for stability and speed?
:eek:

Well what if you download this so called "10.5.7" to find out that it took away all your carbon frameworks and caused PPC machines to not boot?

I don't know about you, but I think they might start striving for code leaning. Maybe getting 10.6 to fit on a CD as opposed to DVD? Someone else mentioned that it only come on new Macs for multitouch and available for purchase. Does everyone always need to buy the newest OS? I'm still running Tiger and my computer hasn't blown up :eek:

I'm guessing it's a lean running OS without PPC binaries/Carbon/etc.

[rexamafex]

Maybe the release of Snow Leopard in Jan 2009 is only to manufacturers so they have time to make applications that are Cocoa and not Carbon.....

[7on]

Maybe the release of Snow Leopard in Jan 2009 is only to manufacturers so they have time to make applications that are Cocoa and not Carbon.....

Apple usually hands out Betas at WWDC.

[cloud 9]

jeezes, one 'fart' of information is known about the next major release and already 22 negative ratings...some people just keep complaining and are never happy.

[yomatiase]

it coul be a mobile version of leopard for a new hardware. a stripped optimized version of leopard, without some services like apache, ftp etc...

[Nutter]

As for getting rid of the APIs themselves, it seems more likely to me that Apple would simply re-implement them as wrappers for Cocoa, so that when Cocoa gets updated, Carbon would come along for the ride.

Apple has already taken this sort of approach with Core Foundation, but offering a C interface to Cocoa in its entirety is unworkable, as the API relies heavily on the extremely dynamic object-oriented nature of Objective-C.

[iMpathetic]

I think Poodle and Golden Retriever would be great! Then when they transition between the two... OS Golden Doodle! :p

I would so buy that.

[gnasher729]

If they drop PPC, that means that 2 to 3 million people will not be purchasing and upgrading the OS.

Speed and stability while important, sound rather boring. What is going to get people to upgrade and shell out $129?

Excellent post. Every single copy of a new operating system sold is about $100 straight into Apple's pocket. Even if only 1 million PPC users upgrade, that is 100 million dollars. Now some non-programmers will think that making two versions, both PPC and x86, would be twice as much effort. It isn't. Actually, the requirement that the software is portable between two different processors means programmers can't get away with any sloppy programming, which always ends up costing more in the end.

And there is the future to look to. One, x86 won't last forever. Remember, Apple is in it for the long run. MacOS X needs to run on the iPhone and on whatever small things Apple will come out with. That means either ARM or whatever Apple's recent purchase will be building. On the other hand, Intel could create a new processor, not the madness that Itanium was but something that can last for the next 30 years, with a completely new instruction set, and MacOS X and Mac software will just run.

I would bet that 10.7 will run on a PowerPC. Slight possibility that Apple won't release it, but it will run on it. Apple will not throw there huge advantage of being processor-independent away.

[whoami]

i'd love to see the adobe developers faces when this is official! lol
say bye bye to ancient code! :eek:

[Dustman]

I thought I'd have more time - based on the release history of Mac OS X and the trend towards longer stretches between releases, I figured the next Mac OS X would come in late 2009-sometime 2010. I don't think anybody projected a OS X stability upgrade - that hasn't been done since 10.1, and that was largely because 10.0 was considerably less functional and usuable than Leopard.

Actually 10.0 was less functional and usuable than Mac OS 8.6. I remember when I first installed it on my iMac G3.. what a piece of garbage that software was.

[Macsterguy]

OK, I like and use apple computers (18 of them) but will this be a "paid" upgrade to:
• Break 4-G4's I own :-)
• To have a more stable OS :-)

All I can say is... Bring it on!

[Sky Blue]

AppleInsider is getting on the action too:


Unconfirmed is whether the software will be shown off or discussed at the company's annual developers conference next week. However, AppleInsider in recent weeks has been told to expect discussion of "another big cat" at the event.

[gkarris]

10.6, if only an interim, I wouldn't pay more than $59 for...

Maybe just an interim until OS 11, when Apple "unifies" all its devices into a standard OS (computers, ipods, touch devices, tablet)? :D

[Stridder44]

If they do this I'm switching to Windows. Dropping Carbon completely would be the worst. move. ever.

Steve Jobs needs to go sooner than Ballmer if he things that is a good move.

Oh ok, then we'll be sure to conform to your needs. :rolleyes:

[tuartboy]

"... For example, Apple may only axe Carbon UI stuff."

You telling me 10.6 will be Adobe CS3 and CS4 incompatible? Doubt it.

[Westside guy]

jeezes, one 'fart' of information is known about the next major release and already 22 negative ratings...some people just keep complaining and are never happy.

So you apparently think Leopard is perfect?

I voted negative - I value stability and speed, but if we have to pay for a major OS upgrade just to get it that's a bit too Microsoft-ish.

Now it's very possible this rumor is off the mark, as I can't imagine them making such a major break with the past... yet; but remember we're voting on the rumor, not whatever the eventual reality is (unless the rumor ends up being exactly correct).

[/dev/toaster]

This is a very bold and very smart move for Apple. PPC is end of life, its time to move on.

I love backwards compatablity and all, but lets face it. Windows has some very serious issues for a reason. The following article really opened my eyes to what the real issues are.

http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/what-microsoft-could-learn-from-apple.ars

Nothing is going to change with Microsoft on this, and that is ok with me. Apple is moving the right way with this and I really look forward to it.

Side note, that article has me really pumped about starting to learn Objective-C. Although it looks ugly as crap for a language, I appericate its power.

[corygreenwell]

I think 10.6 ought to be named ceiling cat personally.

[john7jr]

i'd love to see the adobe developers faces when this is official! lol
say bye bye to ancient code! :eek:

The Adobe developers are already working feverishly to get to Cocoa, primarily for 64-bit support. When Apple dropped 64-bit Carbon they freaked. Result: CS4 will be 64-bit for Windows only. Thanks Apple.

Will they drop Carbon? Yes, not right away, but yes. They will still support the API, even if they don't use it. That's too sudden.

Still, Apple likes to lead by example, and I expect they will be the first to say let's all start moving to Cocoa, and the Finder is the first to go.

[vincebio]

It's NOT GOING TO BE Snow Leopard.

Cougar and Lynx are the only two names unused by Apple that they have trademarked. Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, Leopard, Lynx, and Cougar. Lynx for 10.6, Cougar for 10.7 or vice versa, then on to OS 11.

For the love of god, stop playing guessing games. It's all common sense.


i love how a newbie comes on and knows everything apple is going to do...:rolleyes: (sorry stevie boy if thats you)
when did apple do things by common sense? they think beyond normal regular rules to advance the state of play...

maybe you dont understand the meaning of this site?

rumors
speculation
guesses - best mostly :)

dont like it? dont comment....and let others guess

[ricosuave]

Snow Leopard will make Safari the snappiest ever!

[Loge]

If the update is going over 1GB there's no way they can distribute it via software update.

Why not? They distribute iPhone SDK via download and that is > 2GB.

[ivladster]

It's NOT GOING TO BE Snow Leopard.

Cougar and Lynx are the only two names unused by Apple that they have trademarked. Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, Leopard, Lynx, and Cougar. Lynx for 10.6, Cougar for 10.7 or vice versa, then on to OS 11.

For the love of god, stop playing guessing games. It's all common sense.

Why skip 10.8 and 10.9?:apple:

[ivladster]

Cant wait to those ne Snow Leopard wallpapers!

LOL that's all i care about too!!!
Too bad :apple: moved away from cat image. They should rebrand 10.6 to the fierce look. :cool:

[Val-kyrie]

You obviously don't understand why they would call this one Snow Leopard then. It makes a lot of sense if you think about it. Also, with the way trademarks work, no company could use the name Snow Leopard to describe an operating system since it's so close to Leopard. They have no reason to trademark it.

Also, if Snow Leopard is just a minor upgrade to 10.5, then the close name association also makes sense. I also hope that the price reflects this (free to at most $79) or I doubt I will upgrade.

Also, everything but the no-carbon (very unlikely) and no powerPC (pretty unlikely due to the PA Semi buyout) part sounds almost plausible. Think about all the features in OS X that don't work entirely properly or aren't available to the user, like resolution independence, Quartz Extreme 2D (or is it Quartz GL?), FTP, the Finder, etc. This would be a great way for them to tie all those loose ends together. Release it for maybe $59 or somewhere around there and make OS X a lot more cohesive. The reason none of those features ever really got fixed is because they aren't marketable features and therefor would be less important than the huge ones like Time Machine.

Actually, this makes perfect sense. Eliminating PPC will reduce the size of the code for the OS and apps and carbon may only be mostly eliminated. 10.6 will be a time to tie up loose ends and consolidate the OS before changing things significantly (think touch and gestures incorporated throughout the OS). Then 10.7 could introduce full ZFS support (I doubt Apple will allow booting from a ZFS partition in 10.6) and may even be 64-bit only.

[DOUGHNUT]

speed and stability....isn't that mainly what the 10.5.x updates are designed for?

[MacsRgr8]

It could be a sort-of Developer only OS release...

Just like the Tiger x86 release back at the famous "it's true" WWDC. ;)

Just to "help" developers create not UB software anymore, but the fastest and greatest x64 Cocoa.
This could be more or less a preview of the "real" new 10.6 which will truly be x64 Coca only, but still at least 12 months away.

[Santa Rosa]

If the update is going over 1GB there's no way they can distribute it via software update.

Not entirely, now I'm not talking for the masses here but that isnt that large really if you have a good connection. For example I could down that big guy in about 20 mins on my current connection, which is half the speed of what I used to have!!!

[noriyori]

It is only a guess, but maybe Apple will release its first Multi-Touch Macs (or MacBooks or whatever) in early 2009. These would require the OS to be Multi-Touch compatible.
But Apple is not going to ship only Multi-Touch Macs by then, so they need OS X to support Macs with and without Multi-Touch. They could do this by releasing 10.6 (maybe free for existing Leopard users, because it would only be an upgrade to security, stability and speed for them).
In this scenario it would make sense, if they were dropping PPC support, because this release wouldn't add functionality for PPC.


yep. I'm thinking it's pretty much just leopard with multi-touch. and hopefully some stability and performance too.

[Eraserhead]

Oh ok, then we'll be sure to conform to your needs. :rolleyes:

My needs are for Apple to not alienate their userbase.

There is no way that not allowing Adobe Creative Suite CS3 and CS4 to run on Apple's new OS is a good idea. There is no way not allowing MS Office 2004 or 2008 (note that Office 2004 is required for businesses because it supports VBA), to run on their new OS is a good idea.

Neither MS or Adobe can magic out a Cocoa version of their programs in time, they can't just add programmers to the project as it doesn't actually work. See the OS/360 and read the Mythical Man Month (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythical_man_month) for why, the following quote is key:

Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later.

Anyway given that this rumour is highly unlikely to be true I don't need to worry too much.

[Val-kyrie]

The difference is that major Mac software packages still use Carbon, e.g. Office and Photoshop. You can't drop support for Carbon because of those.

I'm sure Apple would love to simplify their lives by removing Carbon, but any version of Mac OS X that doesn't run Office is not a version I can ever use.

Actually, if OS X.6 is so close to X.5 then most users will likely not care to update. This would also function as a way to give programmers (MS, Adobe, Accordance-which is more important to me) a cushion period during which they will have to take seriously the need to move to a cocoa framework. From a business perspective, it is win-win. Force developers to change and don't make consumers feel like they are missing anything if they can't/won't update.

[TheSpaz]

I know!

Leopard Noob
Leopard Home
Leopard
Leopard Advanced
Leopard Pro
Leopard Ultra
Leopard Ultimate
Leopard Super Massive Supreme Edition
Leopard Intergalactic 2x

[noriyori]

I think 10.6 ought to be named ceiling cat personally.

LOLZ!!! I CAN HAZ MULTI-TOUCH?

[Stridder44]

What I find funny is the debate around what type of cat code name it will have! Who cares?! :D
:apple:

You think this is bad? You should have seen it when they were discussing how if there could ever be a 10.x.10. Page after page of explanations on how the decimal system works, all kinds of crap.

In their time? The quad G5 is still a great machine, and more powerful than many of the machines apple is shipping now.

HAHAHA don't get ahead of yourself there buddy. They're awesome, no doubt, but saying they're faster than current machines? Like what? The Mac mini? :p

Face it, the grave for PPC was already being dug when Apple announced the move to Intel. PPC was placed in the grave with Leopards system requirements. It's been a long time, and the time has come to throw the flowers on the grave. Did you really think they were going to be supported forever? Hardware gets replaced all the time. Complaining about it is stupid. The software is keeping up with the hardware, which is awesome. No one ever said you can't use your Quad G5 anymore. Who are you guys trying to fool here, us or yourself?

But hey, don't get me wrong, paying (potentially) for a speed and performance upgrade is not my cup of tea.

[Lone Deranger]

Hmm.. I just remembered something... The developers (Pixologic) of a popular sculpting and painting application called ZBrush are currently working on finalizing version 3 of this software.
It has taken them more than a year since the version 3 release for Windows and there have been very few announcements from Pixologic why it's taking them so long.
One of the things that was mentioned on their forums (to much anger and surprise) was that there probably will not be a version 3 for PPC owners.
I wonder if this could mean that Pixologic know something about this dropping of PPC support for 10.6. I mean they've already pissed off their entire Mac userbase with this 12+ month delay,
why would they make things even worse unnecessarily for PPC users? It could mean they had no choice because of Apple's future plans for OSX.
Sounds more plausible than alienating a large part of your userbase even further.
Just speculating ofcourse.. :confused:

[Eraserhead]

This would also function as a way to give programmers (MS, Adobe, Accordance-which is more important to me) a cushion period during which they will have to take seriously the need to move to a cocoa framework.

Apple's already ahead of you, that was done last time by dropping Carbon 64 bit support.

[NickFalk]

I think people need to start calming themselves down over this. It is just a rumour ('rumor' to you yanks).

Perhaps someone misunderstood something along the way? Isn't it much more likely that the "all cocoa" refers to all the included applications and innards of the OS, rather than removing the API. Certainly no-one would pay for an "upgrade" that deliberately break a huge amount of the pro-apps available, not the least Apple's own Final Cut...

[noodle654]

I am sure we will hear something on Monday or Tuesday.

[ckurowic]

Pretty sure Apple promised they wouldn't be dropping support for PPC in 10.6.

Then again, they also promised they'd never use integrated GPUs... Or drop features from the iPod. :D

<que_flames>The PPC is Dead</que_flames>

[akac]

They're going to charge people for "speed and stability"?

We don't know. This is a rumour. Most rumours are partially true and partially wrong. From what I know, 10.6 is real. But losing Carbon is probably not. Carbon is not deprecated and Apple would have to mark it as deprecated for a couple releases before they drop it.

[Val-kyrie]

Actually, if OS X.6 is so close to X.5 then most users will likely not care to update. This would also function as a way to give programmers (MS, Adobe, Accordance-which is more important to me) a cushion period during which they will have to take seriously the need to move to a cocoa framework. From a business perspective, it is win-win. Force developers to change and don't make consumers feel like they are missing anything if they can't/won't update.

Oh, Apple also wins because they will still sell the new OS but I think they are more concerned with positioning the future direction of OS X than with sales with 10.6. Their money is made more with hardware than software anyways - think how Apple sells music and movies at a loss in order to sell hardware with a better profit margin.

[akac]

Wouldn't it be just as bad a move as 10.5 dropping Classic? Wasn't Carbon always designed to simply be a stepping stone, from Classic to Cocoa?

Difference is OS 9 was said to be "dead" for years. Carbon is not deprecated.

[Eric S.]

speed and stability....isn't that mainly what the 10.5.x updates are designed for?

Spoilsport! ;)

[CBJammin103]

Seems to me like "Snow Leopard" is a code name within a certain department. I've heard something about Apple keeping things so hush-hush that they give different code names to different teams and departments in order to easily figure out where leaks have come from.

If that's true, and that's what "Snow Leopard" is, someone might have put themselves under the gun...

[ckurowic]

It is all a guess until it has been announced.



Hmm then you go on to make the biggest guess going by saying Apple will release OS XI after 10.7. Pot meet kettle.

rofl :)

[bartelby]

- think how Apple sells music and movies at a loss in order to sell hardware with a better profit margin.

They don't sell music at a loss. They don't make much per unit, but they do make something.

[Eraserhead]

HAHAHA don't get ahead of yourself there buddy. They're awesome, no doubt, but saying they're faster than current machines? Like what? The Mac mini?

Well no, the only models excluded from this are the newest generation of iMacs.

118563

And then here are the iMac results:

118564

So all in all the Quad G5 is only beaten by the Mac Pro, XServe, the latest iMacs (just) and the top of the range MacBook Pro.

They don't sell music at a loss. They don't make much per unit, but they do make something.

I think they probably make about 15% margins on it...

[CoreWeb]

Snow Leopard will make Safari the snappiest ever!

Actually, this could be quite true. Not only is Apple (and other developers) working feverishly on making Webkit (Safari's core) as fast as possible, they've recently announced a new, much faster, JavaScript engine called SquirrelFish (http://webkit.org/blog/189/announcing-squirrelfish/).

In short, the next version of Safari will indeed be snappier.

However, seeing as Apple has been releasing new versions of Safari without releasing new operating systems (Safari 3.1, for instance), we may actually see this speed bump in 10.5.

[ktlx]

From the Arstechnica post.

Where does that say that they're getting rid of Carbon? It says that things that are currently only available by linking to the Carbon libraries would be made available directly to Cocoa programmers.

As for getting rid of the APIs themselves, it seems more likely to me that Apple would simply re-implement them as wrappers for Cocoa, so that when Cocoa gets updated, Carbon would come along for the ride.
I agree with that (I think) Ron is saying. People need to go and read the arstechnica post. My reading of the MacRumors blurb paints a completely different picture than my reading of the arstechnica post.

In my opinion, there is no way Apple is stupid enough to get rid of Carbon in January 2009. Apple is really good at ripping the rug out from under their developers, but they aren't that bad. I wonder if there aren't a bunch of individual developer items that are all getting wrapped up into a single rumor.

I wonder if Apple might tell developers at WWDC 2008:

10.6 is coming 1H 2009
10.6 will be Intel 64-bit only
Carbon will be officially deprecated in 10.6


BTW, people need to go into a detox program for the PPC Kool-Aid. The market has spoken and non-x86 processors are dead for the desktop and laptop markets. Sun is firmly entrenching SPARC in the server space, the market is driving Intel to push Itanium into the HPC space and IBM is marketing PowerPC in the embedded space and POWER in the server and HPC space. The cheapest POWER6 workstation is slightly more powerful (using SPEC) than the most expensive Mac Pro and roughly $2000 more expensive. IBM won't try to rework POWER6 or POWER7 to meet Apple's needs a second time. If Intel delivers on Atom, that could even spell the end for PowerPC period, outside of legacy markets like telecommunications.

[spaz8]

If they drop PPC, that means that 2 to 3 million people will not be purchasing and upgrading the OS.

Speed and stability while important, sound rather boring. What is going to get people to upgrade and shell out $129?

What ever happened to that SUN file system "ZFS" that Apple was playing with?
What ever happened to Resolution Independence?

If it is only speed and stability, why bother showing it to developers? There is nothing new there to show.

Sounds to me like there has to be more than just a speed and stability release, otherwise why not just release 10.5.7 for stability and speed?
:eek:

Yep 2-3 million ppl will have to spend $1999 to replace their 4 yr old computer instead of $129 for a new OS that it will come with. Seems like good business sense.

[macenforcer]

I can see this happening. How many keynotes has Steve given where everyone was like what? Apple hardly ever gives us what we WANT. Why should that not continue. If apple gave us what we wanted we would have...

1. Newly designed macbooks
2. 2 button trackpads
3. A macintosh that is not a $5000 mac pro
4. A stable Leopard
5. iphones we can install apps on
6. a new isight camera or cameras in the cinema displays
7. A freakin real mighty mighty mouse
8. Games for macintosh
9. More video card choices
10. Blu-ray drives
11. an OS we can install on regular PCs
12. 24" cinema displays
13. macbook air with more than one usb port
14. removable batteries on EVERYTHING THEY SELL
15. headphones that don't fall out of your ears
16. They would give us heads up of new products not this secret crap
17. black macbooks the same price as white ones
18. new mac minis
19. a damn way to downgrade back to 10.4.11 on new mac pros

20. FREE APPLECARE


did I leave anything out?

[randomrazor]

why do people assume on here that you will have to pay full price for it. For the love you all it is 6+ months away. We all hope it is either going to be free or incredible cheap for leopard members but quick moaning!!! it is too early to start complaining.

I love you all :D

[mr.fancypants]

How about bobcat? Snow Leopard sounds like Slow Leopard.

Oooh. Or how about OS 10.6 Bobcat Goldthwait? Now there's software I'd wait in line for.

[Eraserhead]

Carbon will be officially deprecated in 10.6

And with it they would kill all business support for Macs forever, and probably take the iPhone with it. No sensible business would run business critical software such as CS3 or Office on a depreciated (and therefore unsupported) framework, so they'd switch to Windows.

[Sbrocket]

I like how everyone automatically assumes that the price of Snow Leopard is going to be the same as Leopard. Talk about a thread rampant with bad logic.

[sananda]

I can see this happening. How many keynotes has Steve given where everyone was like what? Apple hardly ever gives us what we WANT. Why should that not continue. If apple gave us what we wanted we would have...

1. Newly designed macbooks
2. 2 button trackpads
3. A macintosh that is not a $5000 mac pro
4. A stable Leopard
5. iphones we can install apps on
6. a new isight camera or cameras in the cinema displays
7. A freakin real mighty mighty mouse
8. Games for macintosh
9. More video card choices
10. Blu-ray drives
11. an OS we can install on regular PCs
12. 24" cinema displays
13. macbook air with more than one usb port
14. removable batteries on EVERYTHING THEY SELL
15. headphones that don't fall out of your ears
16. They would give us heads up of new products not this secret crap
17. black macbooks the same price as white ones
18. new mac minis
19. a damn way to downgrade back to 10.4.11 on new mac pros

20. FREE APPLECARE


did I leave anything out?

ibook/macbook power supplies that don't fray and set fire to themselves.

[jf8]

The author points to future mobile devices as the driving force behind this focus on performance and stability. There is also a suggestion that Apple may move Mac OS X 10.6 to "Cocoa-only", but the full meaning of this remains vague

Put away your jump to conclusion mats, everyone. Why would Apple purposefully take away the functionality that many very popular applications need? It is more likely that they will rewrite the remaining Carbon-based parts of the UI and officially state that Carbon should no longer be considered for new development projects.

[TheSpaz]

I can see this happening. How many keynotes has Steve given where everyone was like what? Apple hardly ever gives us what we WANT. Why should that not continue. If apple gave us what we wanted we would have...

1. Newly designed macbooks
2. 2 button trackpads
3. A macintosh that is not a $5000 mac pro
4. A stable Leopard
5. iphones we can install apps on
6. a new isight camera or cameras in the cinema displays
7. A freakin real mighty mighty mouse
8. Games for macintosh
9. More video card choices
10. Blu-ray drives
11. an OS we can install on regular PCs
12. 24" cinema displays
13. macbook air with more than one usb port
14. removable batteries on EVERYTHING THEY SELL
15. headphones that don't fall out of your ears
16. They would give us heads up of new products not this secret crap
17. black macbooks the same price as white ones
18. new mac minis
19. a damn way to downgrade back to 10.4.11 on new mac pros

20. FREE APPLECARE


did I leave anything out?

Yes... PowerBook G5

[macenforcer]

Carbon is now the new classic

[pake]

I think I remember hearing Steve Jobs say many keynotes ago, that it was going to be lynx.

[randomrazor]

I like how everyone automatically assumes that the price of Snow Leopard is going to be the same as Leopard. Talk about a thread rampant with bad logic.

better said than my comment (#211)

[smartalic34]

2 things:

1) I hope Mac OS 10.6 supports my 32-bit Core Duo MBP

2) I hope Mac OS 10.6 does not cost $129 if there are no new features

[randomrazor]

I think I remember hearing Steve Jobs say many keynotes ago, that it was going to be lynx.

He might have but till there is a source or citation ... I am not buying it.

[TheSpaz]

Maybe they'll make the scrollbars and progress bars vector and use CoreUI instead of crappy old Extras.rsrc... just an idea.

I think Apple still needs to work more on the GUI... it's still a very important part of the OS... I mean, you have to look at it all day long, it should look nicer. I'm not complaining too much though... at least is not Windows.

[macenforcer]

I could care less how much it costs, $129 is chump change compared to having to re-buy the cocoa version of adobe suite! Thats gonna piss me off something fierce. I just finally bought it.

I thought leopard was the new full 64 bit re-write? What the heck?

[flipperanubi]

a

[HailToTheVictor]

10.6 Snow Leopard MBP running with 4 cores... Talking dirty

[steviem]

Snow Leopard
Like Leopard, only cooler...:apple:


I don't really get the naming convention.

If apple can get true exchange support in Mail, iCal and Address Book for 10.6 I'd be over the moon.

[ktlx]

And with it they would kill all business support for Macs forever, and probably take the iPhone with it. No sensible business would run business critical software such as CS3 or Office on a depreciated (and therefore unsupported) framework, so they'd switch to Windows.
That's not what Apple means when they label an API "deprecated". Their developer documentation is pretty clear about what it means.

[macenforcer]

10.6 Snow Leopard MBP running with 4 cores... Talking dirty

Yeah with the same case design. LMFAO! :D

[Cherimoya]

did I leave anything out?

Well I'd quite like an Apple UMPC seeing as you are asking.

[HailToTheVictor]

Yeah with the same case design. LMFAO! :D

No, it will be white with black spots :p

[probably]

If they do this I'm switching to Windows. Dropping Carbon completely would be the worst. move. ever.

Steve Jobs needs to go sooner than Ballmer if he things that is a good move.

I hope you secretly know and believe that his departure (lol - and according to you: because he wants to polish Leopard with performance, security and standards advancement in a timely manner) would only make things worse.

edit: and a lol @ anyone who thinks this would cost $129.
The way Apple operates right now, the difficulty in having a salesfloor worker convince a mildly-savvy customer in an Apple Store to spend $129 on something with no crazy new features or stark visual differences would not go unaddressed. If this is what it is thought to be, an underpinning revamp, they're not charging the same price.

[happydude]

It's NOT GOING TO BE Snow Leopard.

Cougar and Lynx are the only two names unused by Apple that they have trademarked. Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, Leopard, Lynx, and Cougar. Lynx for 10.6, Cougar for 10.7 or vice versa, then on to OS 11.

For the love of god, stop playing guessing games. It's all common sense.

isn't this site kinda all about guessing games? ;)

[randomrazor]

I wonder what the two bridges mean..?? I guess we will soon find out in less than a week but I wonder if i has to do with 10.6 (whatever its name is). Honestly who cares what the name is??? We will all buy it or whatever no matter if it is battle cat or ***** cat :D
cablecutter

[frank781]

I have not read up a lot on the 10.6 rumors but i don't see it likely that they will be dropping PPC entirely. I can see them dropping the G4 but not the G5. I mean really, there are Quad core G5 still out there that should still be able to run the next major release of the OS. I see 10.6 being PPC and Intel but 10.7 moving to Intel only.

I know my current iMac G5 runs Leopard just fine and i can't see why it would not handle 10.6 decently either.



And about 10.6 being released in January... I don't see that happening. I think it is to soon for a major release, but a lot can change in that time i guess. To be honest i would not mind seeing Apple move to an every 2 year cycle for major OS releases.


G4 & G5 are both Power PC, so if they support one, they're supporting both.

The most likely scenario is that 10.6 is more of a major-minor upgrade. What I mean by this is that instead of having 10.5.4 (or .5) Apple is looking into consolidating feature set throughout their lineup (Apple TV, iPhone, Mac OS) as was suggested and not change in a major way their features. Also why the y are thinking about using "Snow Leopard" as the code name. They would maintain the base Leopard OS with some minor updates.

Will they drop Power PC support? I doubt it. iPhone uses ARM chips, and Semi-PA has more expertise in Power PC than Intel. My suspicion is that they have a fancy new Altivec type co-processor (Power PC based) which they plan to introduce in their next batch of new computers. Maintain use of Intel to take advantage of their economies of scale and have a second CPU as a differentiating factors between Apple and common garden PC's. " Snow Leopard" might a hybrid OS that can take advantage of this arrangement

[macenforcer]

Here are the facts:

Steve is preparing for retirement, he currently makes $1 yearly salary. He gets paid in stock. His goal is to raise stock prices to the highest he can get then SELL. Then he leaves apple. Nothing else matters. His buddha ideals are gone. He could care less about change, revolution of computers anymore, he wants CASH. So expect the ripoff to continue until he leaves. Then watch apple inc. go bankrupt in 3 yrs. ;)

[twoodcc]

wow, i'm kinda surprised by this. but looking forward to hearing the details on Monday

[/dev/toaster]

The Mac needs a Finder replacement quick. The Finder is the single biggest crapware on the Mac right now. (Spinning beach-ball anyone?) "Cocoa-only" might refer to the rewritten UI... not axing all Carbon support across the platform.

The Next UI for Intel only? I can see it. PPC could still use the Finder, but Intel Macs can use this new UI Finder replacement.

There's my speculation... I only hope we get a copy if we go, cause I'll be in the audience...

Finder works very well for me in 10.5. I had some issues with it in 10.4, which might be related to the intel transition.

[TheSpaz]

I think I remember hearing Steve Jobs say many keynotes ago, that it was going to be lynx.

That would get confused with Linux, don't you think?

[Eraserhead]

Carbon is now the new classic

Absolutely, but this is 10.0 or 10.1 with regards to that not 10.5.

[macenforcer]

That would get confused with Linux, don't you think?

What do you think os x is?

[flopticalcube]

With no major OS changes and only speed and stability, I am expecting a 10.1 type rollout. Either free to Leopard users or a small upgrade fee.

[137489]

Kind of goes against only one OS though.

Microsoft did that. they had 2000, Millenium and Xp home all out at the same time.... While it ran on the same hardware, it sucked trying to be compatible. Also, what about XP home, xp pro, and XP media center being out at the same time. also found that had compatibility issues with software on each. some ran on XP pro, but not media center.

I see a scary thing happening if Apple makes an OS for PPC and a separate OS for Intel. learn from Microsoft's mistakes - don't repeat their mistakes please.

[Eraserhead]

That's not what Apple means when they label an API "deprecated". Their developer documentation is pretty clear about what it means.

Its already "deprecated" except for security updates anyway, if they go any further then they'll have to not support it even for security updates which would make it unusable.

because he wants to polish Leopard with performance, security and standards advancement in a timely manner

Timely also means not getting there too quickly.

timely |ˈtīmlē|
adjective
done or occurring at a favorable or useful time; opportune : a timely warning.

[heads up]

i think it's about time that Apple gives the axe to carbon. wasn't the purpose of carbon to make the transition from os 9 to os 10 seamless? that was nearly 7 years ago... so why are people still writting carbon applications?

also, carbon is not fully 64 bit compaiable. so it makes sense for the next os to be intel only AND non-carbon. why would you want a carbon application on intel when all the new processors are 64 bit?

[macenforcer]

With no major OS changes and only speed and stability, I am expecting a 10.1 type rollout. Either free to Leopard users or a small upgrade fee.

Yep.

Better be FREE or somebody's gonna get sued...


You can't sell a fix. Period.

[randomrazor]

Here are the facts:

Steve is preparing for retirement, he currently makes $1 yearly salary. He gets paid in stock. His goal is to raise stock prices to the highest he can get then SELL. Then he leaves apple. Nothing else matters. His buddha ideals are gone. He could care less about change, revolution of computers anymore, he wants CASH. So expect the ripoff to continue until he leaves. Then watch apple inc. go bankrupt in 3 yrs. ;)
Facts... where is your citation??? I don't think Steve will leave for a while. He likes his black shirt presentations too much. Haha I can see him in like 20 years in a wheel chair with his clicker in his hand with release of a solar power laptop or something crazy...ha jk

[Eraserhead]

why would you need a carbon application on intel when all the new processors are 64 bit?

Because all applications aren't going to be 64 bit for 20 years or more as there is no performance benefit in the vast majority of cases.

I mean Microsoft is still going to be selling a 32 bit OS which can't run ANY 64 bit programs at all for the next 5 years at least.

[macenforcer]

Facts... where is your citation??? I don't think Steve will leave for a while. He likes his black shirt presentations too much. Haha I can see him in like 20 years in a wheel chair with his clicker in his hand with release of a solar power laptop or something crazy...ha jk

I valet and park steves benz. He told me. :D

[Small White Car]

it's not as if the only two choices for the cost of this are 'free' and '$129'.

Boy, you really don't understand the posters around here, do you? That's some kind of crazy-speak to most of them.

;)