Apple Seeds First Version of Mac OS X 10.5.4 to Developers

Dang, already? Seems like we'll see more frequent updates as indicated by Steve during previous keynotes.

Wow. Apple's working hard I see. Just wow....already?

Dang man, I want to be a developer!

release 10.4.12!

i'm actually surprised by this as a lot of people i work with tell me that 10.5.3 has fixed a ton of their problems with 10.5.2. maybe Apple is being proactive and wants to get the fixes out faster than how long 10.5.3 took.

How is this possible?!

10.6 on the horizon alongside constant updates to 10.5... insanity. We JUST upgraded to 10.5.3 last week!

wow this company has been busy lately..

at this rate, we might hit 10.5.9 by the time 10.6 is officially released. lol

Indicates one of two things:

1. They haven't branched 10.6 yet, and want a stable codebase
2. They've been busy on 10.6, but problems with Leopard are so widespread they're having to peg it back and do some major plumbing

Saladinos said:

Indicates one of two things:

1. They haven't branched 10.6 yet, and want a stable codebase
2. They've been busy on 10.6, but problems with Leopard are so widespread they're having to peg it back and do some major plumbing

Click to expand...

False dichotomy much?

3) They do regular updates of operating systems.

I'm guessing 10.6 will be a major/minor release similar in that Windows XP SP2 was a major/minor release.

Then a year after 10.6 will be 10.7 to go head to head with Windows 7 in 2010.

It is also possible that 10.6 will be available in 2010 with Leopard going past the 10.5.10 mark.

Yes... far fetched. But we're talking rumors here. But regardless, we should keep in mind that Apple is going to have something ready in January 2010 to compete with Windows 7.

First Version..

yea but it's the first seed, there'll be a few more so it's good to know that they're busy!

snow leopard and incrementalism

If Snow Leopard really is the name for 10.6, then the implication is that 10.6 will be an incremental upgrade, perhaps sold at a low cost. I agree therefore that 10.6 is a behind-the-scenes jobby that paves the way for 10.7, which will go up against windows 7.

FightTheFuture said:

i'm actually surprised by this as a lot of people i work with tell me that 10.5.3 has fixed a ton of their problems with 10.5.2. maybe Apple is being proactive and wants to get the fixes out faster than how long 10.5.3 took.

Click to expand...

I'd agree that 10.5.3 fixes a lot of bugs, but it also introduced some new ones (possibly even brought some dead ones back). All the current issues that I am experiencing appear to be related to 10.5.3's handling of PAC files, used to automatically define a proxy server for connecting to the network and Internet at large. This caused issues in 10.5.0 (for example, .mac syncing would perpetually crash until you turned it off) and was (I think) fixed in 10.5.1. With 10.5.3 there are problems again with .mac syncing when I'm at work (the process dotmacsyncclient will consume 100% of a processor until you kill it) and I can no longer connect to the iTunes Store without iTunes crashing. The only option is either to define the proxy server settings manually or wait until I get home before attempting any of the above. Both issues are pretty well documented on the Apple Discussion forums and I'm definitely not the only one having these issues.

Here's hoping that 10.5.4 will be released soon and that it nukes these silly issues again.

Anybody know what Apple has changed in this first build?

Dare I admit it... I'm on 10.4.11 I confess! I also confess 10.4.11 is a VERY finely tuned machine. Black Macbook used 7 days a week, always in and out of standby, and I just don't reboot or have crashes ever. That's with VMWare and other apps always open.

Bring on 10.4.12!

My 867MHz Powermac G4 Quicksilver has been indexing & kernel panicking for like 3 days now with 10.5.3.

Should I just give up on Leopard for this SUPPOSEDLY SUPPORTED MAC or just wait for the class action lawsuit that pays me $9.75 on my $129 purchase ???

I'm going to fall on the side of 'they're realising they need to speed up fixes and not break stuff in the process'. I also like the idea of the snow leopard. Only a few days to wait to find out ... at least something, now.

HyperZboy said:

My 867MHz Powermac G4 Quicksilver has been indexing & kernel panicking for like 3 days now with 10.5.3.

Should I just give up on Leopard for this SUPPOSEDLY SUPPORTED MAC or just wait for the class action lawsuit that pays me $9.75 on my $129 purchase ???

Click to expand...

the same here.

looks like my 867 QS isn´t supported machine for Leopard. Freezing up 2 - X times a day, but working flawlessly under 10.4.11.

Kelmon said:

I'd agree that 10.5.3 fixes a lot of bugs, but it also introduced some new ones (possibly even brought some dead ones back).

Click to expand...

If you like playing retro games, 10.5.3 removed 256-colour support on Macs with Intel GMA X3100 integrated graphics and Penryn-based MacBook Pros.

I Certainly hope 10.5.4 brings back these lost features!

HyperZboy said:

My 867MHz Powermac G4 Quicksilver has been indexing & kernel panicking for like 3 days now with 10.5.3.

Click to expand...

http://bumppo.net/archives/2008/05/colonel-panic-seeks-generalissimo-chillpill

Might be worth a look.

Reality Check

I think the fact 10.5.4 is being seeded only ONE WEEK after 10.5.3 shows Leopard is a huge lump of a mistake. Indeed, talk of rapid change to 10.6 suggests Leopard is being abandoned for a re-write of the OS. A tacit admission of failure.

Leopard has been a disaster for users, breaking machines, frequently crashing (and ruining the previous excellent stability record of OS X) and being pathetic with wifi.

I am lucky to have two Macs, my main being an iMac, but I have a Powerbook 12". Whilst I have opted to upgrade the iMac, the Powerbook remains on Tiger and the difference shows. There have been times I have had to turn to the Powerbook for reliability of the OS to complete work. There are no wifi problems with the PB - despite the Al casing - whilst the iMac hangs... sitting next to the laptop. There are some on this forum who consistently deny there are problems with Leopard's wifi handling, blaming ISPs and hardware. Ask any Apple Store Genius and they will tell you what we all know: Leopard breaks wifi. Indeed they are fed up with half their daily work appeasing Leopard users with problems that needs OS fixes and can't be solved in store.

I am not a power user, but if I have problems with some website building (don't get me started on iWeb), word processing, Net use and DVD authoring what must power-users who have deadlines and deals on the line be going through?

I am a long-term reader of the forums, and I am sorry if I come across as negative, but Apple have seriously dropped the ball on the software. Let's look at the recent history: Pages, iWeb, iPhoto 08, iMovie 08 and Leopard were all useless on launch, and iWeb, iMovie 08 and Leopard are still inferior releases. The recent profit boost has come from iMac sales, not iPod/iPhone sales. Yes these latter items are technically brilliant and shiny, but Macs are the core and where the profits are, losing sight of that and focusing on the periphery could bring Apple tumbling down.

Finally, I am amused some think "Snow Leopard" will be the first OS to drop PowerPC support... surely that was Leopard 10.5.0? Reading these forums the bulk of the complaints come from G4/G5 users, so it is clear Apple have dropped support there.

Thanks for letting me rant!

I am a long-term reader of the forums, and I am sorry if I come across as negative, but Apple have seriously dropped the ball on the software. Let's look at the recent history: Pages, iWeb, iPhoto 08, iMovie 08 and Leopard were all useless on launch, and iWeb, iMovie 08 and Leopard are still inferior releases. The recent profit boost has come from iMac sales, not iPod/iPhone sales. Yes these latter items are technically brilliant and shiny, but Macs are the core and where the profits are, losing sight of that and focusing on the periphery could bring Apple tumbling down.

Definitely a rant...
- So if the developers took a 6 month holiday sponsored by Microsoft, that'd be much better, because there's no time like tomorrow to start work on 10.5.4? You're basically saying that Apple being pro-active in developing and making Leopard better is a "huge lump of a mistake".
- How many users, what percentage has Leopard been a "disaster"? Not all of them i'd imagine, but that's infer implicitly through the wide reaching statements.
- Leopard and wifi does need work. I'd imagine they are working on it. As you yourself say, the Store Genius's have problems with users with problems that need OS fixes. Which i'd imagine would be part of what developing 10.5.4 would include, which you call a "huge lump of a mistake"
- I can't comment on iWeb, Pages, but iPhoto 08, iMovie 08 and Leopard weren't "inferior" releases. You can still use the older versions if you want. Note that they are all likely to get updates. Apple ballsed up iMovie (and Mossberg will agree with you). I'd imagine they will have learnt from that. Bear in mind that for all the new software mentioned, the iPhone will be soon addded to this mix, so there are major changes they have to do anyhow.
Are Macs the core? There is profit in them, Apple's laptop sales are helping out, and soon iPhones will be going great guns too. No need to be ranting about potentials like "Apple tumbling down". Though a great turn of phrase for a rant

Click to expand...

Definitely a rant...
- So if the developers took a 6 month holiday sponsored by Microsoft, that'd be much better, because there's no time like tomorrow to start work on 10.5.4? You're basically saying that Apple being pro-active in developing and making Leopard better is a "huge lump of a mistake".

Click to expand...

No, but seeding one week later shows they were releasing 10.5.3 knowing it still had bugs to be fixed. And it came in at >500Mb... of fixes, and more to come! Maybe we should be done with it and have a newly written OS and put Leopard in history?

- How many users, what percentage has Leopard been a "disaster"? Not all of them i'd imagine, but that's infer implicitly through the wide reaching statements.

Click to expand...

Ask Apple Geniuses and the forums rather than relying on "imagination". Yes these are full of ranters and complainers (why moan when it works?) but the traffic concerning Leopard is unprecidented. This is reflected in the major rehauling of the updates. It could well be 10.5.9 will feature NONE of the code of 10.5.0 through updates. Admission that there was something seriously wrong with Leopard. With 500MB updates, we are showing huge levels of rewrites.

- Leopard and wifi does need work. I'd imagine they are working on it. As you yourself say, the Store Genius's have problems with users with problems that need OS fixes. Which i'd imagine would be part of what developing 10.5.4 would include, which you call a "huge lump of a mistake"

Click to expand...

If Apple workers are conceding perfectly stable wifi networks are being broken on using Leopard, then this is a problem. Wifi has been around for a while and Leopard is meant to be an ADVANCE of Tiger, but it is a huge backward step in this regard. And the fact I mention Genius' concerns that this is an OS fault and not hardware or ISPs should not be forgotten here. By your admission, Leopard has taken something that worked well in Tiger and made it unstable or inoperable. In the name of progress!

- I can't comment on iWeb, Pages, but iPhoto 08, iMovie 08 and Leopard weren't "inferior" releases. You can still use the older versions if you want. Note that they are all likely to get updates. Apple ballsed up iMovie (and Mossberg will agree with you). I'd imagine they will have learnt from that. Bear in mind that for all the new software mentioned, the iPhone will be soon addded to this mix, so there are major changes they have to do anyhow.

Click to expand...

Pages was incredibly slow, buggy and pretty pathetic. Everyone bought it because it was tagged with Keynote. This was admitted by Jobs, so it's on record, let's not rewrite history here. iPhoto 08 required a couple of hasty updates to sort it out it's slow rendering and instability.

Apple's recent qulaity control has been poor, rushing out incomplete software. Pages and Leopard were definitely rushed and could have done with a few more months of work. Leopard 10.5.3 is the nearest to a working version, and I would suggest 10.5.0-2 should have been in house works in progress.

Are Macs the core? There is profit in them, Apple's laptop sales are helping out, and soon iPhones will be going great guns too. No need to be ranting about potentials like "Apple tumbling down". Though a great turn of phrase for a rant

Click to expand...

There has been so much hype with iPhones and iPods but Apple's great quarter results are from Mac sales (I include Macbooks etc). The computer business allows them to diversify, but without Mac sales with the great profit margins, the iPhones don't pull in as much cash. I have a long memory and remember Apple nearly being bust when they dropped the focus on producing great Macs and I never want to see that again. So let's face facts and reality, rather than seeing it through Apple tinted glasses. There is a lot of work for Apple ahead, and fixing the software arm is hugely important: who will buy Apple machines is the OS is wretched?

I realise I upset Fanboys with this. But the fanboys defended Gil Amelio and were happy to say, "What iceberg?" while standing on the deck of the good ship Apple as it was sinking mid 90s. Perhaps my being harsh is because I support the company so much, and the best friend is one who can be honest and say it as it is, rather than supporting failure.

Enjoying the debate! Thanks for answering ;o)