Early Version of Intel's Nehalem Benchmarked, Much Faster than Penryn

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Anandtech managed (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3326) to get access to some early versions of Intel's Nehalem processors that are due for release in Q4 2008. We've previously described (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/04/11/buyers-outlook-for-2008-2009-penryn-imacs-soon-nehalem-in-2009/) Nehalem which is expected to be a major jump forward from Intel's current Penryn processors. The key new features in Nehalem are Simultaneous multithreading, QuickConnect, and tri-channel DDR3.

Despite only having access to early chips and early motherboards, Anandtech was impressed:First keep in mind that these performance numbers are early, and they were run on a partly crippled, very early platform. With that preface, the fact that Nehalem is still able to post these 20 - 50% performance gains says only one thing about Intel's tick-tock cadence: they did it.Anandtech had access to a 2.66GHz Nehalem processor which they pitted against a 2.66GHz Penryn processor. Performance improvements ranged from 20-50% faster for the Nehalem chip. h.264 video encoding was tested and saw a 44% speed boost on Nehalem vs Penryn on the equally clocked processors. They claim that the 2.66GHz Nehalem outpaces the current top-of-the-line 3.2GHz Penryn. The speed increase comes at a cost of only 10% increase (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3326&p=8) in total system power consumption.

Apple will certainly adopt the Nehalem processors after they become available. While the first server-grade Nehalem processors are expected in Q4 of 2008, desktop and laptop models won't be available until sometime in 2009.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/06/06/early-version-of-intels-nehalem-benchmarked-much-faster-than-penryn/)

[Lord Nerdos]

When will we see it in a mac pro?

[uniquedesign]

slick! waiting for the nehalem platform here!

[Morod]

I better start saving now for that new laptop! Wow!
Morod

[bug67]

I wonder if THIS is what we're waiting for to have blue ray drives;)

[Silentwave]

I just HAD to buy the stupid 8-core Mac Pro this year, didn't I ;)

Thankfully, I won't need more than that until 2010 most likely, so I'll just look forward to the Nehalem-based mobile chips for my next MBAir. May even wait till Westmere.

[DiamondMac]

When will we see it in a mac pro?

That is my question as well

[louden]

That is my question as well

Mac Pro? I want to see this in a Mac Book Pro

[ezekielrage_99]

Looks like jan09... Another thing to look forward to in Macworld

[bdkennedy1]

How interesting that this might come out in January 2009, around the time of 10.6's rumored performance boost.

Can you imaging running that processor and an optimized Snow Leopard? That would be like double the speed of what's out now.

[Corbet]

I know this website is primarily for Apple related products but I fully intend to build a new gaming PC when this chip drops. I've been waiting almost a year to upgrade (No games really push the limit of computers except Crysis) and I can't wait.

[Bye Bye Baby]

How interesting that this might come out in January 2009, around the time of 10.6's rumored performance boost.

Can you imaging running that processor and an optimized Snow Leopard? That would be like double the speed of what's out now.

My thoughts exactly. Imagine what Nahlem will ne when it is finally released and :apple: have made an OS designed for all those nifty new things! I'm waiting for Nahlem to do dump my old G4, faithful as she is, to a new IMac and Air.

Let's also hope they figure out a way to bring in SSD to really make some speed improvements.

[i make movies]

I can't wait. I'm on a iBook G4 1.2 Ghz and I've been ready to make the jump to a top of the line 24" iMac for a long time. Just to note, I have not been waiting for this chip, I'm just financially crippled (I'm still on 10.3.9...is that panther?). I'll get one when I can afford it.

[alana22]

For those asking whether they should wait or buy, this is worth waiting for!

[louden]

Yep - I'm waiting for this one - no matter how cool the case re-design looks like when (if) it comes out this summer.

[MrCrowbar]

I know this website is primarily for Apple related products but I fully intend to build a new gaming PC when this chip drops. I've been waiting almost a year to upgrade (No games really push the limit of computers except Crysis) and I can't wait.

Most games don't use the CPU a lot. It's all about graphics. Get and average CPU adn put your money ong the graphics card. I'd go for a single NVidia 8800GTX and get a second one in a year or so if you need to upgrade it.

[vendettabass]

nice... wonder when the Air will see nehalem. By then it might actually beat my 2.0ghz blackbook!

[Ade-iMac-177]

I need to get me one of those but damn; early 2009, there goes my hope of a Nehalem MBP at WWDC

[Nano-tube]

I decided to wait with replacing my Power Mac G5 to a new Mac Pro with the Nehalem processor the moment I heard it will have an IMC.
I read the Ananndtech review carefully and I am happy I had taken the right decision (for me). Combined with the rumored 10.6 that should optimize performance for intel CPUs, blue ray drive, next gen GPU, DDR3 memory and maybe even a nice SSD this baby will just scream!

Bravo Intel!
:D

[Nano-tube]

Most games don't use the CPU a lot. It's all about graphics. Get and average CPU adn put your money ong the graphics card. I'd go for a single NVidia 8800GTX and get a second one in a year or so if you need to upgrade it.

Not true bro. I own a games development company and I can tell you that a lot of games are CPU bound. The CPU is absolutely crucial for computer games.
With IMC in the Nehalem it will only improve things as games do a lot of memory operations.
And by the way, a 8800GT will give you the best bang for the buck (from the 8xxx series). I would also consider a nice 9800GT with 512 GDDR3, albeit it's a little more expensive it's the next gen, and next gen is always good. :)

[28monkeys]

Are you sure it will out in early next year? What's a short life Montivena platform will be...:rolleyes:

[Brianstorm91]

I swear some people must just spend their entire lives waiting for the 'next update'.

[Michael CM1]

Is it worth another $1800 for a new laptop just to perhaps double the speed of my HandBrake encodes? Hmm.....

If these things are going to be THAT much faster, I think I'll get my dad to hold out on ditching the G5 until then. Sounds *nifty*.

[Manic Mouse]

As others have said, Nehalem and Snow Leopard would be absolute screamers in terms of performance. I may have to replace my current MacBook when the new case design and Nehalem come out...

[Stridder44]

I swear some people must just spend their entire lives waiting for the 'next update'.

Funny you say that, as I remember you had a thread titled "List: MR Members Waiting To Buy A New MacBook Pro", which had over 2,856 posts, 123,396 views, and was 115 pages. You even kept a huge list of members that spanned over several posts. :rolleyes: I would know, I was there waiting too.

But yeah, I'm happy I waited. On that note, Nehalem sounds freaking awesome. Can't wait!

[SchneiderMan]

what kind of word is Nehalem??

[nick9191]

So Mac Pro and Macbook Pro- Jan 09
Macbook and iMac- May 09
Mac Mini- Jan 2027

[Nano-tube]

what kind of word is Nehalem??

There is a debate over this. Basically, Nehalem means Brooks in Hebrew. As current generations of Intel processors are designed and developed mainly in Israel, the hebrew translation of Nehalem makes sense. It is pronounced:
Neh - Ha - Lim (brooks in plural). However, there have been suggestions that it is also the name of a place in the US (old Indian name or something like that).

I believe that Nehalem is in Hebrew as all recent designs from Intel (the Tik part of the tik-tok strategy) are in Hebrew: Dothan (place in Israel), Merom (high place in the sky), Yonah (Pigeon), Nehalem (brooks) and then Gesher (bridge). These are all words in Hebrew. By the way, the variants (like Conroe) are developed in the US, but the core design is from Israel - hence the Hebrew names.
:cool:

By the way, Wikipedia states that Nehalem is called after an Indian tribe that lived near Oregon... so go figure what's the truth!
Anyway, it's going to kick ass in my next Mac Pro :D

[SPUY767]

I just HAD to buy the stupid 8-core Mac Pro this year, didn't I ;)

Thankfully, I won't need more than that until 2010 most likely, so I'll just look forward to the Nehalem-based mobile chips for my next MBAir. May even wait till Westmere.

Don't sweat it. My 1st gen top of the line Mac Pro is still nauseatingly fast when compared to even the most recent machines, and it's two years old. With a machine like that, there is no wrong time to buy.

[spcdust]

So what order would we expect to see this introduced to the Mac line-up:

1st - Mac Pro
2nd - Mac Book Pro
3rd - Imac

Is January 2009 really a realistic date for Apple to start rolling this out across their range?

Finally, as far as Mac Book Pro and Imac goes, do you think we would have to wait for far later in 2009 before they get this chipset designed to work at lower power consumption?

Question, Questions, always questions!

[RichardI]

Any word on operating temperatures? That's really the key in my opinion - because of cooling issues. Does it slow down when it gets hot? How hot does it get? The last PC I had with a quad core in it had so many fans that I had to have an 850 watt power supply to run them all.:eek: And the noise.....

Rich :cool:

[MacinDoc]

Apple will certainly adopt the Nehalem processors after they become available. While the first server-grade Nehalem processors are expected in Q4 of 2008, desktop and laptop models won't be available until sometime in 2009.Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/06/06/early-version-of-intels-nehalem-benchmarked-much-faster-than-penryn/)
Just in time for the next upgrade in my cycle. Perfect!

[deputy_doofy]

Now that sounds like the Core3 I have been waiting for.

[quagmire]

If only I didn't need a new computer this fall for college. :(

[diamond.g]

Any word on operating temperatures? That's really the key in my opinion - because of cooling issues. Does it slow down when it gets hot? How hot does it get? The last PC I had with a quad core in it had so many fans that I had to have an 850 watt power supply to run them all.:eek: And the noise.....

Rich :cool:

Supposedly TDP is around 80W. All modern Intel CPUs will throttle their clock when running too hot. Too hot happens to be around 100C.


TBH, I am not surprised. IMC was a huge performance boost for AMD (AXP->A64) so it seems inline. What is going to be the crazy part is when they start putting more than 4 cores on one die. That is when all the fun is going to begin... :D

[CWallace]

The day it goes into a Mac Pro is the day the Mac Pro goes into my office. :cool:

And prior to opening their Mobile CPU design center in Israel, Intel has traditionally named their cores after rivers in Oregon, so either source could apply for the name since Nehalem will be used across both desktops and notebooks.

[MacsAttack]

AMD is so in trouble...

Which is a shame. It was the competition from AMD that forced Intel to rethink their whole approach with the P4 and evolve the Core and Core 2 architecture that has been such a success.

The next step looks like being a doozie. :D

[mmendoza27]

That's why I've been waiting for Nehalem, no matter how good these new MBP's are. Nehalem is just going to rock and IMC is going to make it blazingly fast!!

If you guys have a chance, check out the roadmap on Wiki, found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehalem_%28microarchitecture%29#Variants

If you check it out, you can see three processors that would fit nice in the Macs because of the TDP. The one if the "Value Mobile", which has an integrated GPU and runs at 35/45 TDP. It'll come 2Q 2009 and will only have 2 cores (but 4 if you include the hyper-threading ability, mean 4 logical cores, but 2 physical). This screams MacBook to me.

Next, you can see the "Mainstream Mobile", which runs a little hotter at 45/55 TDP, but comes with 4 physical cores and comes 2Q 2009 as well. This sounds like MacBook Pro and iMac to me (I honestly think the iMac's will see quad core probably by year-end).

Finally, last but not least, at 130 TDP, you see the Nehalem-EX, which is a MP Server processor. This seems to fit in the MacPro, because it has FB-DIMM RAM and also uses QuickPath for the processors to talk to each other easier, it will come 4Q 2009 (sorry MacPro owners) BUT COMES WITH 8 PHYSICAL PROCESSORS. That means 16 processors on the MacPro come 2010 or so. YES, 16 PROCESSORS!!

You heard it hear first guys, I think this makes sense for Apple.

[RealEvil]

But by the time this is out, there will be field tests of the NEXT Intel processor. Having said that, I might not buy a Mac now but perhaps wait for the the Montivenas... but only because the release is so close.

Neil

[johnmcboston]

But by the time this is out, there will be field tests of the NEXT Intel processor. Having said that, I might not buy a Mac now but perhaps wait for the the Montivenas... but only because the release is so close.


hmmm. Is that my new imac I smell? :)

[diamond.g]

Finally, last but not least, at 130 TDP, you see the Nehalem-EX, which is a MP Server processor. This seems to fit in the MacPro, because it has FB-DIMM RAM and also uses QuickPath for the processors to talk to each other easier, it will come 4Q 2009 (sorry MacPro owners) BUT COMES WITH 8 PHYSICAL PROCESSORS. That means 16 processors on the MacPro come 2010 or so. YES, 16 PROCESSORS!!


The MP's are 4 socket chip/boards. Apple (currently) uses the DP chips/boards.

If Apple were to move to the 4 socket boards expect a price increase as I have seen 4 socket servers start at $6000. But that would be impressive, there would be 32 cores in one system (the MP are 8 cores a chip).

[FJ218700]

sounds good,

I'm waiting until Nehalem is in the MBP's to retire my PB 1.67 from daily use.

hope Apple gets an early deal again.

maybe the Mini's will get it by 2012 :cool:

[andiwm2003]

so after WWDC is then the best time to buy a MBP or MB. Nehalem mobile chips will be out in one year or so. No worries to be outdated too soon.


A few questions for 2009:

How expensive will the mobile Nehalem be?
How expensive will DDR3 be?
When can we expect a 4 core Nehalem?

Together with an affordable 256GB SSD drive my guess is that a new MBP is in order for 2010 for me. So should update my G4 right after WWDC and then 2010 again.:D

[TMay]

That's why I've been waiting for Nehalem, no matter how good these new MBP's are. Nehalem is just going to rock and IMC is going to make it blazingly fast!!

If you guys have a chance, check out the roadmap on Wiki, found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehalem_%28microarchitecture%29#Variants

If you check it out, you can see three processors that would fit nice in the Macs because of the TDP. The one if the "Value Mobile", which has an integrated GPU and runs at 35/45 TDP. It'll come 2Q 2009 and will only have 2 cores (but 4 if you include the hyper-threading ability, mean 4 logical cores, but 2 physical). This screams MacBook to me.

Next, you can see the "Mainstream Mobile", which runs a little hotter at 45/55 TDP, but comes with 4 physical cores and comes 2Q 2009 as well. This sounds like MacBook Pro and iMac to me (I honestly think the iMac's will see quad core probably by year-end).

Finally, last but not least, at 130 TDP, you see the Nehalem-EX, which is a MP Server processor. This seems to fit in the MacPro, because it has FB-DIMM RAM and also uses QuickPath for the processors to talk to each other easier, it will come 4Q 2009 (sorry MacPro owners) BUT COMES WITH 8 PHYSICAL PROCESSORS. That means 16 processors on the MacPro come 2010 or so. YES, 16 PROCESSORS!!

You heard it hear first guys, I think this makes sense for Apple.

We will probably get the Gainestown for the Mac Pro at MSWF 2009: dual processor capable, 4 cores each (for 8 total), 2x Quickpath would basically be the logical speedbump from the current Penryn Mac Pro's.

[nep61]

Are you sure it will out in early next year? What's a short life Montivena platform will be...:rolleyes:

Apple always seems to be a little delayed on updating Mac Pros & iMacs to a new chip after it's release... not to mention how long the wait seems to be to get a new piece of Intel hardware into a MBP. Just my 2 cents.:)

[DsurioN]

sweeeeeeeet - too bad I'm planning on buying a macbook / pro this summer - I guess I can't wait forever to buy! :rolleyes:

[tekmoe]

glad i didn't buy a new macbook pro yet. all you suckaz who bought the penryn's are gonna be WISHING you had the nehalem. hahaha

[MacFanatic08]

UGH! Another Mac update in the Fall, there's ALWAYS going to be a new Intel processor, so my SR MacBook Pro will go down in value.. again! :(

[Chairman Plow]

Mac Pro? I want to see this in a Mac Book Pro

Amen!

[kamiboy]

Screw faster, give me cooler. My current MacBook Pro burns my lap, actually burns it, so hot it gets when ever I start to do anything even remotely heavy on it.

[Draeconis]

That's why I've been waiting for Nehalem, no matter how good these new MBP's are. Nehalem is just going to rock and IMC is going to make it blazingly fast!!

If you guys have a chance, check out the roadmap on Wiki, found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehalem_%28microarchitecture%29#Variants

If you check it out, you can see three processors that would fit nice in the Macs because of the TDP. The one if the "Value Mobile", which has an integrated GPU and runs at 35/45 TDP. It'll come 2Q 2009 and will only have 2 cores (but 4 if you include the hyper-threading ability, mean 4 logical cores, but 2 physical). This screams MacBook to me.

Next, you can see the "Mainstream Mobile", which runs a little hotter at 45/55 TDP, but comes with 4 physical cores and comes 2Q 2009 as well. This sounds like MacBook Pro and iMac to me (I honestly think the iMac's will see quad core probably by year-end).

Finally, last but not least, at 130 TDP, you see the Nehalem-EX, which is a MP Server processor. This seems to fit in the MacPro, because it has FB-DIMM RAM and also uses QuickPath for the processors to talk to each other easier, it will come 4Q 2009 (sorry MacPro owners) BUT COMES WITH 8 PHYSICAL PROCESSORS. That means 16 processors on the MacPro come 2010 or so. YES, 16 PROCESSORS!!

You heard it hear first guys, I think this makes sense for Apple.

Server Nehalems are supposedly due out this year Q4, and you missed out the fact that a Mac Pro would have 32 Logical cores from 16 Physical because of Hyper-Threading (and that's assuming the board will be DP and not 4 Processors.)

[Chairman Plow]

glad i didn't buy a new macbook pro yet. all you suckaz who bought the penryn's are gonna be WISHING you had the nehalem. hahaha

You see, there is a method to the madness. I'll use the time to convince the Mrs. to dump her HP, and take my Penryn MBP. She claims she doesn't like Mac. She's used to Windoze. Well, she can have both, or choose one or the other. Faster. Bigger HD. No hiccups playing those annoying little games she likes. Let's not even mention the iSight and iLife. She'll love it. Then I'll promptly go out and get myself the Nehalem MBP. Plan for every contingency. ;)

[chuckles:)]

what kind of word is Nehalem??

נהלם (Nehalem) is one of those cool hebrew words with a bunch of meanings.

I thing the most likely one is "to make orderly" or "to increase efficiency".

I'll be living in Israel next year, so i can update you on it when my hebrew gets a bit better.

[!¡ V ¡!]

UGH! Another Mac update in the Fall, there's ALWAYS going to be a new Intel processor, so my SR MacBook Pro will go down in value.. again! :(

I hear you, processor core(s), speed, etc... is just a routine update. Processors will always get faster with one or more features or cores to make the deal enticing, it is expected.

So when news as such is posted about a new processor, it does not surprise at all, since it has become the norm and getting rather boring. Do I really care what percentage faster it is when compared to the old, it is going to be faster no doubt. I do however care how much time a movie SD or HD 1.3-2.0 hours will take to encode, this way I can gage a lot more than giving me a percentage, which really translates into nothing.

It is possible to do the calculation and knowing well enough that all the numbers will be skewed since nothing is certain is a given. However entertain the possibility. ;):D

נהלם (Nehalem) is one of those cool hebrew words with a bunch of meanings.

I thing the most likely one is "to make orderly" or "to increase efficiency".

I'll be living in Israel next year, so i can update you on it when my hebrew gets a bit better.

The processor could be called "migot" and I could care less. These naming schemes with intel are getting confusing for others to keep track of when having a conversation.

I say stick to a name and a number, these code and brand naming scheme are making tech nerds of us all when having a conversation. And they though Mac users were into design. We are starting to sound similar to Linux group, what is wrong with us? :rolleyes:

[Mr Maui]

Is January 2009 really a realistic date for Apple to start rolling this out across their range?

January 2009 is a realistic date for Apple to start talking about rolling it out across their range.

[mjteix]

From the info I could get:

- Xeon (Mac Pro) and high-end desktop cpus (not used by Apple, yet) will be available in Q4 2008, along with the associated chipsets. So a Nehalem-based Mac Pro could indeed be announced at MWSF 2009.

- Mainstream desktop parts (not used by Apple, yet) and mainstream mobile parts (MB, MBP, iMac, Mac mini, MBA) will be available STARTING Q3 (not Q2, as previously rumored)

- TDP for most cpus, will be higher than penryn ones, due to the integrated memory controller and other components, but the chipset will be, in most cases, reduced to one chip instead of two, so the TDP of the overall platform will not change much.

Xeon, DP, workstations:
- Gainestown cpus (similar to Bloomfield), dual Tylersburg 36D chipset

High-end Desktop cpus:
- Bloomfield, quad-core, 2.66GHz ($316), 2.93GHz ($530), 3.20GHz ($999)

Mainstream Desktop cpus:
- Lynnfield, quad-core, Ibexpeak PCH chipset, $200-$600
- Havendale, dual-core + integrated graphics, Ibexpeak PCH chipset, $80-$300

High-end Mobile cpus:
- Clarksfield 55W, quad-core, Calpella chipset, $850 and $1050

Mainstream Mobile cpus:
- Clarksfield 45W, quad-core, Calpella chipset, $650
- Auburndale 45W, dual-core+integrated graphics, Calpella chipset, $300-650
- Auburndale 35W, dual-core+integrated graphics, Calpella chipset, $200-400

Maybe because the Mainstream Nehalem chips have been pushed in Q3, there will be a penryn speedbump late Q4/early Q1. For example in the mobile front:
- 35W Q9100, mobile 2.26GHz quad-core $850
- 35W T9600 2.80GHz -› T9800, 2.93GHz dual-core $530
- 35W T9400 2.53GHz -› T9XX0, 2.66GHz dual-core $316
- 25W P9500 2.53GHz -› P9XX0, 2.66GHz dual-core $348
- 25W P8600 2.40GHz -› P8700, 2.53GHz dual-core $241
- 25W P8400 2.26GHz -› P8600 2.40GHz dual-core $209

[davisac]

If Ive been wanting to buy a mac for a while now and have finally saved enough money, should I just get one or should I wait till next year? or the next back to school iPod deal or whatever? Feel like I just keep waiting. Worth it?

[SpinThis!]

UGH! Another Mac update in the Fall, there's ALWAYS going to be a new Intel processor, so my SR MacBook Pro will go down in value.. again! :(
So, what's the problem? Why do people get processor (penis) envy at whatever new comes out? It's not like your machine suddenly stops working at doing useful tasks. Hey I can post to macrumors.com forums 25% faster now!

A computer is not an investment. Go buy some Apple stock if you're looking for something to hold its value (or make money).

If Ive been wanting to buy a mac for a while now and have finally saved enough money, should I just get one or should I wait till next year? or the next back to school iPod deal or whatever? Feel like I just keep waiting. Worth it?
Well you can wait until next year... or the year after.. or the year after. The computer industry is a moving train—you either make the jump and get on or sit on the tracks watching as the next car goes by. If you want/need it, go buy it. Get the midlevel 24" iMac—it just got updated recently.

[Westsider 4 Mac]

.. going to rock the Penryn MBP until there is a case redesign and internal components update like chipset, SSD and blu ray drive. That = year 2009 :)

[gnasher729]

If Ive been wanting to buy a mac for a while now and have finally saved enough money, should I just get one or should I wait till next year? or the next back to school iPod deal or whatever? Feel like I just keep waiting. Worth it?

Not worth waiting. Here is how I would look at the situation: You have the money to buy your first Macintosh. It won't be your last. In three or four years, you will buy another one. Then another one somewhere between six and eight years from now. And so on. You will always buy a better one by waiting longer, but you will always have a less good one while you are waiting. Buying a Mac at any time means you have a faster Mac, and less money in your pocket. So whenever you think "I would be overall happier with a faster Mac and less money", that is when you buy.

The only exception is that it is unwise to buy just before a predictable product change. For example, WWDC starts next Monday. There are reasonable chances that something new will be announced, so going to a shop today or tomorrow would be unwise. If there is anything new, you will know on Wednesday so wait until then. If a new product comes out, you either can buy the latest and brand new product, _or_ you will probably find the current product in the refurbished section for significantly less money.

Everything said, don't wait a year for Nehalem.

[sl1200mk2]

If Ive been wanting to buy a mac for a while now and have finally saved enough money, should I just get one or should I wait till next year? or the next back to school iPod deal or whatever? Feel like I just keep waiting. Worth it?

It's been said a billion times over and over, but it's true. You will *ALWAYS* just be waiting for the next revision. Apple and every other hardware company are in a constant state of revision.

No, don't wait, you need to just get whatever it is you've already been waiting for and ENJOY it!

I did this about a month ago with a new 15" MBP 2.4 and I love it. I really (seriously) wouldn't care if a new machine came out today. This is a great machine that'll last me years to come. My last Apple purchase, a 2002 iBook G3 800 (running Tiger) is still being used daily by my girlfriend as her internet / email while sitting on the couch machine.

Quit waiting and start using.

:D


Wayne

[QCassidy352]

For those asking whether they should wait or buy, this is worth waiting for!

depends on what you do. I'm sure many people do not even max out the processing power of the current chips.

[alphaod]

Well it looks like I will switch new computers in a year... :rolleyes:

[Data]

Aint that the same every time a new processor comes out ;-), in practice i'm always a little dissapointed to be honest, last time i went from a G5 dual 2,7 to a macpro 8core 2,6 , it was not as big a diffrent as i expected. Maybe if they would optimize programs to actualy use those 8 cores maybe then i would be impressed, i keep hoping ;-).

[chris200x9]

Any word on operating temperatures? That's really the key in my opinion - because of cooling issues. Does it slow down when it gets hot? How hot does it get? The last PC I had with a quad core in it had so many fans that I had to have an 850 watt power supply to run them all.:eek: And the noise.....

Rich :cool:

what did you do? I have a Q6600 OC'd to 3 gigahertz only have 3 case fans and a stock heatsink and its only 65 degrees c under full load.

[AENAON]

I know this website is primarily for Apple related products but I fully intend to build a new gaming PC when this chip drops. I've been waiting almost a year to upgrade (No games really push the limit of computers except Crysis) and I can't wait.

Lets first say, there is no point to wait. If u want to play a game, do it now, or else u will forever wait for the next upgrade.

But here are my 2 points on this occasion:
1. Typically modern (3D) games utilize the horsepower of the VGA way more than the CPU. There was an article on Tom's Hardware on this issue exactly a few days ago. The only part of the game the CPU exclusively does right now is the physics, but that's a minority on PC Games. 200 euros on a better VGA are better spent than 200euros on a better CPU.
2. Nehalem is not about the CPU only, its a major change in the whole platform. Even if the CPU itself is (lets say) 20% faster than a Core2 at the same speed, the in-game gains will be larger cause of the plenty memory bandwidth (and low latencies) for the VGA to exploit. Right now the PCI Express 2.0 bus is pretty useless, even if u compare it to AGP, the difference is minimal, and thats because the platform can't feed the VGA fast enough.

So yeah, Nehalem will be a big deal for games, or at least more of a big deal than it would traditionally be. That being said, there are upcoming game engines that could make the platform speed irrelevant, like the one demo'ed from ID games on the last MacWorld. But I wouldn't count on an immediate industry-wide adoption of such technologies any time soon.

[twoodcc]

can't wait to see these in new computers. especially when the processors are finalized

[flopticalcube]

I was going to replace my Merom/Napa MacBook with a Penryn/Montevina but looking at the results I might keep the old beast going for another year and get the Nehalem/Calpella. It looks like its going to be worth the wait.

[xUKHCx]

Aint that the same every time a new processor comes out ;-), in practice i'm always a little dissapointed to be honest, last time i went from a G5 dual 2,7 to a macpro 8core 2,6 , it was not as big a diffrent as i expected. Maybe if they would optimize programs to actualy some those 8 cores maybe then i would be impressed, i keep hoping ;-).

The difference with Nehalem is that is moves from an outdated bus system for the processors to address the RAM to Quickconnect which essentially matches up the processors to the ram directly.

http://media.arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/what-you-need-to-know-about-nehalem.media/four-fsb1.gif


If you have time this review/technical background article (http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/what-you-need-to-know-about-nehalem.ars/1) from ars is a very good background to the new technology being implemented.

[mmendoza27]

Server Nehalems are supposedly due out this year Q4, and you missed out the fact that a Mac Pro would have 32 Logical cores from 16 Physical because of Hyper-Threading (and that's assuming the board will be DP and not 4 Processors.)

Yeah, that's my mistake. I didn't even really notice, it makes sense that Mac Pro's would use the DP and not the MP. I think I was just swayed by the fact that it uses FB-DIMM's, which is what the Mac Pro's currently use. Either way, I'm hoping for a quad-core MacBook Pro 17". Even if they do a redesign (which would actually make more sense when they start introducing quad-cores along with a redesign), I'm waiting for Nehalem.

Looking at mjteix's comment, it looks like they might save the quad-core for the high-end stuff like the 17" MBP, $650 is a lot for a processor. I just see it as another dividing factor between the Professional MacBook Pro and the consumer MacBook.

[mmendoza27]

http://media.arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/what-you-need-to-know-about-nehalem.media/four-fsb1.gif


If you have time this review/technical background article (http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/what-you-need-to-know-about-nehalem.ars/1) from ars is a very good background to the new technology being implemented.

That Ars article is very, very interesting, especially if you are just a little bit technically saavy. One misconception I think, is that QuickPath will not be on all processors, just desktop and servers. It's competition is HyperTransport, which is used by AMD, as a connector between the physical processing cores.

This is a little bit different the Integrated Memory Controller, which is going to be a big deal all around. The mobile processors still have the IMC, which is good. QuickPath is illustrated on the right hand picture and is the gray paths connecting each processing core.

[diamond.g]

I think I was just swayed by the fact that it uses FB-DIMM's, which is what the Mac Pro's currently use.

I think that Intel is wanting to phase out FB-DIMMs. It does smart a little if you planned on transferring memory to the new Mac Pro though.

I understand that Leopard scales quite well with more processors (16+), is this true?

[Data]

Thanks for the link, FSB is out ( whichalways was a bottle neck ) so maybe this actually might make a real diffrence.



The difference with Nehalem is that is moves from an outdated bus system for the processors to address the RAM to Quickconnect which essentially matches up the processors to the ram directly.

http://media.arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/what-you-need-to-know-about-nehalem.media/four-fsb1.gif


If you have time this review/technical background article (http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/what-you-need-to-know-about-nehalem.ars/1) from ars is a very good background to the new technology being implemented.

[Gunga Din]

glad i didn't buy a new macbook pro yet. all you suckaz who bought the penryn's are gonna be WISHING you had the nehalem. hahaha

Nope :) Happy I bought when I did. After reading about Nehalem, I decided it wasnt worth waiting till next yr for it. (8 More months till release, no thx)

I was looking a buying my first Mac in Dec 07. I waited about 2 months for the Pen. MBP. but thats as long as I wanted to wait. Past few months i've learned alot and got alot done. If your looking for your first Mac, waiting till next yr is stupid. If your computer is fine for now, then yea, waiting till next yr might be ok. But in noway would I sell my Pen. MBP to get the Nehalem one next yr. Just not that big a deal to me.

I'm targeting 2010 for my next major Mac purchase. That will be the yr :) Then those that bought in 2009 will be kicking themselves in the ASS :)

[Stately]

It will definitely be in a Mac Pro. Apple, put it in a super thin Mac Book Pro as well please. ;)

[mmendoza27]

I think that Intel is wanting to phase out FB-DIMMs. It does smart a little if you planned on transferring memory to the new Mac Pro though.

I understand that Leopard scales quite well with more processors (16+), is this true?

I'm hoping that with 10.6, if it's Intel-only, they will be more dual-core optimized, actually removing the PPC code and making it smaller and cleaner. Hopefully, applications will be more optimized for multiple-cores since they won't be supporting G4's.

I don't think Leopard is extremely efficient with multiple-processors, but probably does it better than Vista. Leopard is great with RAM, especially by being 64-bit.

[morespce54]

For those asking whether they should wait or buy, this is worth waiting for!

Yep, but only if you have the luxury to wait... until (at least) Summer 2009

[Bad Paper]

In three or four years, you will buy another one. Then another one somewhere between six and eight years from now. And so on.Holy crap! You're either crazy or filthy rich. Macs last long enough that you should wait a lot longer between upgrades. I only bought my Macbook because my iBook had finally started to crap out -- after seven years -- but it still works. There are people on here that wait ten years between upgrades for their desktops.

I'm hoping for a cheap Montevina (Mini? Please?) so that I can toss out the PC and have a couple of machines that I won't have to upgrade for a very. long. time.

[mmendoza27]

I was looking a buying my first Mac in Dec 07. I waited about 2 months for the Pen. MBP. but thats as long as I wanted to wait. Past few months i've learned alot and got alot done. If your looking for your first Mac, waiting till next yr is stupid. If your computer is fine for now, then yea, waiting till next yr might be ok. But in noway would I sell my Pen. MBP to get the Nehalem one next yr. Just not that big a deal to me.

I'm targeting 2010 for my next major Mac purchase. That will be the yr :) Then those that bought in 2009 will be kicking themselves in the ASS :)

Well with my first Mac purchase, I bought an iMac G5 in August 2005.... two months later, they released a new G5 with the iSight, updated graphics card, a faster processor, more RAM for cheaper!! Not that I hated my iMac, I loved it, still I could have gotten a better deal.

Next Mac purchase, in 2006 (because of the Intel dual-core processors) was a MacBook Pro. This was a major purchase, I know I didn't need it, so I waited. I didn't regret this one, I waited until Santa Rosa in November and purchased it first day.

That's my recommendation, wait until you need it and then buy when they first come out. I don't need one right now, and Nehalem is going to be a huge upgrade, and it'll be around 3 years since my last purchase. I figure I should probably pick up a new Mac every 2-3 years.

[louden]

.. going to rock the Penryn MBP until there is a case redesign and internal components update like chipset, SSD and blu ray drive. That = year 2009 :)

I thought the safe bet was to count on the re-design with the new chipset - which is Montevena - and we should see it soon.

[kgeier82]

Nehalem will bring the new MBP case design, mark my words.

penryn was just a stepping stone update, Nehalem is a much bigger step. Concerned about the 10% more power usage though, thats the wrong way.

[diamond.g]

Concerned about the 10% more power usage though, thats the wrong way.

The hardware wasn't final hardware. Keep that in mind.

[kockgunner]

i voted negative because i need a laptop for university. i cant wait til january

[bigwig]

I think that Intel is wanting to phase out FB-DIMMs.
Why? As standard memory configurations get ever larger, ECC becomes more and more important, not less.

[diamond.g]

Why? As standard memory configurations get ever larger, ECC becomes more and more important, not less.

I am not honestly not sure. Although the Inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/09/26/fb-dimms-dead-rddr3-king) believes it has to do with TDP and bandwidth.

Honestly I wasn't really sure why Intel went with FB-DIMM when AMD was using ECC-DDR2. But after a little bit of reading it seems to have to do with not having a IMC. I guess with QP FB-DIMMS aren't as needed (from my understanding you actually become latency sensitive, and we all know FB-DIMM has horrible latency).



Of course I could be wrong, but with the Nehalem DP parts using ECC-DDR3 it seems not as likely.

[Nineteen88]

I am sorry if this question has been answered before, but does that mean that the latest high-end Penryn iMac model is considered inferior to the upcoming Nehalem Processor?

[i0Nic]

I am sorry if this question has been answered before, but does that mean that the latest high-end Penryn iMac model is considered inferior to the upcoming Nehalem Processor?

Are you asking if a current processor is inferior to a future update of that processor?

Yes, nehalem > penryn.

[mmendoza27]

I am sorry if this question has been answered before, but does that mean that the latest high-end Penryn iMac model is considered inferior to the upcoming Nehalem Processor?

Very much so. They benchmarked a 3.2 GHz Penryn, the iMac is only 3.06. Plus, it really seems that they will put in a Quad-Core Nehalem in the iMac, which would make it much faster than the Dual-Core Penryn, considering that Mac OS X starts to really take advantage of more cores.

[Dmac77]

Damn. I don't wanna wait till January:(, I want a MBP so bad, looks like i am going to have to buy that ibook G3 on ebay to hold me over. damn:eek:

Don

[mmendoza27]

Damn. I don't wanna wait till January:(, I want a MBP so bad, looks like i am going to have to buy that ibook G3 on ebay to hold me over. damn:eek:

Don

Well to be honest, I don't think that a Nehalem MacBook Pro is going to come out in January, you might be best buying the next revision of the MacBook Pro. I'm sure you will be just as happy.

[winterspan]

I'd go for a single NVidia 8800GTX and get a second one in a year or so if you need to upgrade it.

And by the way, a 8800GT will give you the best bang for the buck (from the 8xxx series). I would also consider a nice 9800GT with 512 GDDR3, albeit it's a little more expensive it's the next gen, and next gen is always good. :)

Why are you guys telling this PC gamer guy to go buy an 8/9-series right now?? For god sakes, Nvidia's next-gen GTX 280/260 will be released in the next few weeks. Even if he doesn't want to spend that much, obviously the 9800GTX and even the 9800GX2 will plummet in retail price.

[winterspan]

That's why I've been waiting for Nehalem, no matter how good these new MBP's are. Nehalem is just going to rock and IMC is going to make it blazingly fast!!

If you guys have a chance, check out the roadmap on Wiki, found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehalem_%28microarchitecture%29#Variants

If you check it out, you can see three processors that would fit nice in the Macs because of the TDP. The one if the "Value Mobile", which has an integrated GPU and runs at 35/45 TDP. It'll come 2Q 2009 and will only have 2 cores (but 4 if you include the hyper-threading ability, mean 4 logical cores, but 2 physical). This screams MacBook to me.

Next, you can see the "Mainstream Mobile", which runs a little hotter at 45/55 TDP, but comes with 4 physical cores and comes 2Q 2009 as well. This sounds like MacBook Pro and iMac to me (I honestly think the iMac's will see quad core probably by year-end).

Finally, last but not least, at 130 TDP, you see the Nehalem-EX, which is a MP Server processor. This seems to fit in the MacPro, because it has FB-DIMM RAM and also uses QuickPath for the processors to talk to each other easier, it will come 4Q 2009 (sorry MacPro owners) BUT COMES WITH 8 PHYSICAL PROCESSORS. That means 16 processors on the MacPro come 2010 or so. YES, 16 PROCESSORS!!

You heard it hear first guys, I think this makes sense for Apple.



Lets first say, there is no point to wait. If u want to play a game, do it now, or else u will forever wait for the next upgrade.
But here are my 2 points on this occasion:
1. Typically modern (3D) games utilize the horsepower of the VGA way more than the CPU. There was an article on Tom's Hardware on this issue exactly a few days ago. The only part of the game the CPU exclusively does right now is the physics, but that's a minority on PC Games. 200 euros on a better VGA are better spent than 200euros on a better CPU....


Just a helpful note, assuming you are not a native english speaker. The word you are looking for is probably "GPU", although "graphic card", "video card", "graphics chip", "3d card" would work just as well. "VGA" is an acronym for a display standard. I'm never seen it used to refer to a graphics card, although I'm sure most if not everyone understands what you are talking about.


Holy crap! You're either crazy or filthy rich. Macs last long enough that you should wait a lot longer between upgrades. I only bought my Macbook because my iBook had finally started to crap out -- after seven years -- but it still works. There are people on here that wait ten years between upgrades for their desktops.

7-10 years for upgrades?? Are you kidding? 3-4 years is by no means "crazy" or indicative of someone "filthy rich". I would assume 3-4 years would be pretty average.


I am sorry if this question has been answered before, but does that mean that the latest high-end Penryn iMac model is considered inferior to the upcoming Nehalem Processor?

Well, new processors are usually faster than their older counterparts... That's why they are new. Nehalem is going to fly. A nice thing with Nehalem is that it is going to improve single-threaded performance as well as
multi-threaded, which means that applications that don't traditionally take advantage of quad-core processors are going to see a speed boost.

[jmnikricket]

Why are you guys telling this PC gamer guy to go buy an 8/9-series right now?? For god sakes, Nvidia's next-gen GTX 280/260 will be released in the next few weeks. Even if he doesn't want to spend that much, obviously the 9800GTX and even the 9800GX2 will plummet in retail price.

Very true. I tested out a Dual 2.8 Mac Pro for a few weeks and there were a few things I noticed: Even playing games like Crysis, I never saw the average of all 8 cores over 40%. These latest processors (including Penryn) are so much ahead of current GPUs, I'm much more interested to see what nVidia is going to be able to put out in the next 8 months before I would even consider going Montevina over Penryn, especially considering that Adobe CS4 is going to start using GPUs.

Another issue you guys seem concerned about is heat and noise. The current Mac Pros are ridiculously quiet. You can barely hear the fans and I almost never heard that processor "crunching" noise. In fact, they were so quiet that when I was using Windows in Bootcamp, many times I wasn't sure if I double-clicked an application correctly because there was no audible noise or bouncing dock icon that indicated that it was loading. I don't forsee the 10% additional power consumption making much of a difference (edit: it could make a huge difference in MBPs as they already run very hot).

So my take is that yes these processors are much faster, but without equivalent GPUs and application optimization (we'll see what the WWDC has to say about this), I think a lot of you will be disappointed with the actual benchmarks given the 8 month wait.

[Scottcop]

Wow, Intels new hardware is faster than their last lot of hardware.

[flopticalcube]

Wow, Intels new hardware is faster than their last lot of hardware.
I think its the scale of the speed improvement that's impressive. Merom was 10-15% faster than Yonah. Penryn was 10% faster than Merom. This is promising to be 30-50% faster. That's a big leap.

[Aztec]

Wow, Intels new hardware is faster than their last lot of hardware.

REAL TALK.

[edcrosay]

what kind of word is Nehalem??

For awhile, I don't know if it still holds true, but Intel based the names of their technology after rivers in the pacific northwest (Intel's largest operation is in Hillsboro, Or).

Nehalem is a river on the Oregon coast.

EDIT:
P1 w/ MMx - Tillamook
PII - Klamath, Deschutes
PIII - Tualatin
P4 - Willamette
Core - Cedar Mill (neigborhood in Portland)
Future tech - Sandy, Nehalem
All of these are rivers or places in Oregon.

[wakeborder556]

i voted negative because i need a laptop for university. i cant wait til january

Im in the same boat it sucks

[Manic Mouse]

I think its the scale of the speed improvement that's impressive. Merom was 10-15% faster than Yonah. Penryn was 10% faster than Merom. This is promising to be 30-50% faster. That's a big leap.

Nehalem is a really impressive new processor. These benchmarks are with an immature product too, so it will only get more stable and cooler before release. When the Nehalem MacBooks are released I'm going to upgrade (as I can then give my current machine to my girlfriend).

[flopticalcube]

When the Nehalem MacBooks are released I'm going to upgrade

Ditto.

[wizard]

Really I don't get people here and the obsession with every single release of new hardware from Intel/Apple. I just purchased a new Penryn based MBP a few months ago and can say I'm very pleased with both the hardware and software. It is not perfect by any means but I suspect will last me a long time with my current usage patterns.

The thing is this is the first Mac for me in a very long time. Previously I ran Linux systems built up out of what ever I could find. In fact this message is being posted from one of those boxes. In any event it was a huge jump in performance to go from a old single core processor to a dual core lappy. I just think people would be happier looking not to what they could have, but rather looking at how well they have improved themselves over time. Envy isn't a positive quality at all, trying to improve your lot in life is though.

Now all that being said I don't expect to replace this laptop anytime soon. The exception would be if I could leverage it to make money. But that would then become a business decision. It is a good tool as it stands now though.

Dave

[thebrain74]

I know this is going to sound like whining, but here goes.

I am not buying a new laptop anytime soon (the SR MBP I have is expensive and very powerful, oh and expensive). But when I use it it is not the power that I feel is wanting it is the battery.

I wish instead of a 20-50% increase in power and a 10% increase in power usage, Nehalem was 20-50% more energy efficient with say a 10% increase in computing power. I mean I know this doesn't more for the server grade versions of these chips, but I can't do anything very intense (word process, browse web)with my MBP and still get 3hrs batt life. What good is a 20-50% power increase if your lappy is dead (therefore a 100% power decrease:()

I'm just saying (and I know it is difficult, its not like other companies are doing it and apple isnt) it would be nice for a mobile workstation to be, well, mobile

[skellener]

Of course if it's not waiting for the processor, it's waiting for Blu-Ray or waiting for USB 3.0 or whatever.

[skellener]

Nehalem is a really impressive new processor. As will be the one after it, and the one after that, and so on. These chips don't get slower. There will always be something better, faster, cheaper right after you buy.

[flopticalcube]

As will be the one after it, and the one after that, and so on. These chips don't get slower. There will always be something better, faster, cheaper right after you buy.

I disagree. I thought that both the last 2 new processors from Intel (Merom and Penryn) while improvements, were not terribly impressive. This one is or at least has the potential to be.

[Nineteen88]

Are you asking if a current processor is inferior to a future update of that processor?

Yes, nehalem > penryn.

I was just referring to this article, it seems i misunderstood what it meant.

http://www.macrumors.com/2008/04/28/intel-provides-early-montevina-like-technology-to-imac/

[Decrepit]

And that is when I will probably buy a Mac Pro. I still love my Mini, and would love a new one, but this would be worth saving for.

Come on, Apple, HIRE ME! I've applied for 5 jobs at corporate. Just think, if they hire me, they're saving all that money since I'll be pouring it back into the company!

[andiwm2003]

As will be the one after it, and the one after that, and so on. These chips don't get slower. There will always be something better, faster, cheaper right after you buy.

i disagree:

looking at the 2.0GHz G5 Powermac. that was good for a very long time. i think it was about 3 years before the Quad G5 brought a real improvement.

and the 2.0 Core2Duo MBP are only what, 20% slower than todays models.

sometimes there are certain big leaps in performance. that's the time to buy if you have a mac already and if you can wait.

then there are years with 10% improvement. that's the time to buy if you need a mac and if you can't wait.

on top of that there are often major improvements in HD, RAM, GPU , Form Factor and maybe Blue Ray tied to a CPU upgrade. That is also a reason to buy if you are flexible. After that you're good for a few years.

So I can understand people who do not need a mac right now that they wait for a leap in performance before they buy. For many on this forum a mac is not just any tool, it's a toy and they want the best.

This of course comes from someone who still uses a 1,5GHz Powerbook G4:rolleyes:

[Nineteen88]

When would we expect Nehalem based iMacs?

[nplima]

When would we expect Nehalem based iMacs?

Check Psystar's website regularly ;)

[JGowan]

So, what's the problem? Why do people get processor (penis) envy at whatever new comes out? It's not like your machine suddenly stops working at doing useful tasks. Hey I can post to macrumors.com forums 25% faster now!Perhaps there are those of us that do more than surf the 'net with our computer, Spin. It has nothing to do with Processor/Penis envy. It's about getting the most bang for your buck.

Well you can wait until next year... or the year after.. or the year after. The computer industry is a moving train—you either make the jump and get on or sit on the tracks watching as the next car goes by.The top end stuff is getting crazy nice and some people hold onto their computer for a longer and longer period of time. My last big $6000 computer purchase was a 22" Cinema Display and top of the line PowerMac back in Feb '02 (almost 6.5 years) ago. My next purchase will be in Jan-Feb '09 if this comes out in the MacPro then. I'll be socking away $1,500 a month till Feb for the system I want… I started 2 months ago so I've earmarked $3K so far. I plan on spending $15K -- I'm more than doubling what I spent in 2002 but this time, I want the machine to be able to last me a full decade. So you see, waiting for a high-end machine for a year or so is not so crazy when you think that a lot of people will be holding onto their very expensive purchase for a very long time.

Come Feb 2009, it's going to be all about the new Mac Pro with tons of HD space/ram, two 30" Displays, and all new software suites along with perphrials out the ying-yang. Oh--and I've got the wife's blessing already. You can't put a price tag on your mate having no prob with gadget/computer buying. :D

[bobertoq]

Holy!!! :eek: I'm definitely waiting a while to get my iMac. :D Now I just need a quad-core...

[igxqrrl]

There is a debate over this. Basically, Nehalem means Brooks in Hebrew. As current generations of Intel processors are designed and developed mainly in Israel, the hebrew translation of Nehalem makes sense.

There is no debate over this. Nehalem was designed in Oregon, not Israel. Like most other x86 CPU designs from Oregon (Willamette, Northwood, Prescott, Deschutes, Klamath, Tualatin, etc..) it is named after geographical features found in Oregon.

By the way, the variants (like Conroe) are developed in the US, but the core design is from Israel

Historically the major designs have come entirely from the US. Recently the major design teams in Oregon and Israel have alternated major designs. Conroe, the last "tock", was developed in Israel. Penryn, its "tick", was developed in Santa Clara. Nehalem, the next "tock" is being developed in Oregon.

[CWallace]

Historically the major designs have come entirely from the US. Recently the major design teams in Oregon and Israel have alternated major designs. Conroe, the last "tock", was developed in Israel. Penryn, its "tick", was developed in Santa Clara. Nehalem, the next "tock" is being developed in Oregon.

The Israel design center was opened to explore new mobile CPU designs because NetBurst required too much power and generated too much heat.

They took the Pentium III core and reworked it, which became Banias and the start of the "Pentium M / Centrino" line and it's successors.

[mmendoza27]

Holy crap! You're either crazy or filthy rich. Macs last long enough that you should wait a lot longer between upgrades. I only bought my Macbook because my iBook had finally started to crap out -- after seven years -- but it still works. There are people on here that wait ten years between upgrades for their desktops.

I'm hoping for a cheap Montevina (Mini? Please?) so that I can toss out the PC and have a couple of machines that I won't have to upgrade for a very. long. time.

That's not necessarily true, I think it's natural to upgrade your Mac every 3-4 years. We don't deny that they last longer, but there is many ways to buy a Mac. You don't necessarily need to buy all cash, their is a loan, credit cards, etc. To each his own though, if you keep your Macs for years, that's cool.

[SchneiderMan]

The Israel design center was opened to explore new mobile CPU designs because NetBurst required too much power and generated too much heat.

They took the Pentium III core and reworked it, which became Banias and the start of the "Pentium M / Centrino" line and it's successors.


wasnt Intel founded in Israel? and then bought by america? correct me if im wrong on this
oh and "nehelem" in hebrew means "Stream/s or Brook" so yes its not an english word..

[flopticalcube]

wasnt Intel founded in Israel? and then bought by america? correct me if im wrong on this

Silicon Valley (Santa Clara), via Wikipedia:

Intel was founded in 1968 by Gordon E. Moore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_E._Moore) (a chemist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemist) and physicist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicist)) and Robert Noyce (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Noyce) (a physicist and co-inventor of the integrated circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_circuit)) when they left Fairchild Semiconductor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairchild_Semiconductor). A number of other Fairchild employees also went on to participate in other Silicon Valley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Valley) companies. Intel's third employee was Andy Grove (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Grove),[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel#cite_note-7) (a chemical engineer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_engineer)), who ran the company through much of the 1980s and the high-growth 1990s. Grove is now remembered as the company's key business (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business) and strategic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy) leader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leader). By the end of the 1990s, Intel was one of the largest and most successful businesses in the world.

[SchneiderMan]

Silicon Valley (Santa Clara), via Wikipedia:

i dont trust the wiki lol,. but thanks

[Tallest Skil]

i dont trust the wiki lol,. but thanks

That's a narrow-minded view. I've had a few teachers who believed the same thing but all caved eventually to my way of thinking. The real way to see it is thus: Don't trust Wikipedia when it hasn't cited sources.

Wikipedia is a great research tool, but it will bork a term paper if you cite it as a source. The trick is in going to the page of your topic and then immediately scrolling to the bottom and going to those sources to retrieve data.

[Hajs]

Really I don't get people here and the obsession with every single release of new hardware from Intel/Apple. I just purchased a new Penryn based MBP a few months ago and can say I'm very pleased with both the hardware and software. It is not perfect by any means but I suspect will last me a long time with my current usage patterns.

The thing is this is the first Mac for me in a very long time. Previously I ran Linux systems built up out of what ever I could find. In fact this message is being posted from one of those boxes. In any event it was a huge jump in performance to go from a old single core processor to a dual core lappy. I just think people would be happier looking not to what they could have, but rather looking at how well they have improved themselves over time. Envy isn't a positive quality at all, trying to improve your lot in life is though.

Now all that being said I don't expect to replace this laptop anytime soon. The exception would be if I could leverage it to make money. But that would then become a business decision. It is a good tool as it stands now though.

Dave

I have my new(ish - penryn 2.6) MBP it is without a doubt the finest computer I have owned - I am particularly impressed with it, the performance ripping dvds knocks most things into a cocked hat. improvements are indeed welcome but I have to say I cant remember the last time I was this happy with a piece of technology.(I do also use it professionally for cs3 which it is more than excellent at too) Happy days!

H.

[louden]

Nehalem will bring the new MBP case design, mark my words.

penryn was just a stepping stone update, Nehalem is a much bigger step. Concerned about the 10% more power usage though, thats the wrong way.

I'll bet the case redesign comes with the new chipset! That's now (or July)

[Digital Skunk]

what they said here

HELL YEAH!!!!!

Perfect timing for full Macintosh tower replacement!

I am talking RAID cards, SAS, dual 23" (or newer) monitors, 16-32GB of RAM.

[flopticalcube]

i dont trust the wiki lol,. but thanks
Your loss then. Its the most convenient source of trivia on the planet. The origins of Intel from Fairchild are fairly well documented elsewhere. I will leave it to you to do the donkey work if you don't trust the Wiki.

[Digital Skunk]

wasnt Intel founded in Israel? and then bought by america? correct me if im wrong on this
oh and "nehelem" in hebrew means "Stream/s or Brook" so yes its not an english word..

NO it wasn't. It has nothing to do with Israel.

[flopticalcube]

NO it wasn't. It has nothing to do with Israel.

He probably doesn't trust Google Maps (http://maps.google.ca/maps?ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&q=Nehalem,+OR,+USA&um=1&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&resnum=1&ct=title) as well.

[Digital Skunk]

He probably doesn't trust Google Maps (http://maps.google.ca/maps?ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&q=Nehalem,+OR,+USA&um=1&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&resnum=1&ct=title) as well.

That, and there are a lot of places in the United States that aren't English words....

Like Manhattan... to bad this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan) won't prove that.

[igxqrrl]

The Israel design center was opened to explore new mobile CPU designs because NetBurst required too much power and generated too much heat.

They took the Pentium III core and reworked it, which became Banias and the start of the "Pentium M / Centrino" line and it's successors.

The Israel design center has been around for decades. They were designing x86 cores prior to Netburst, and prior to Banias. Timna comes to mind.

[jeznav]

I've got the Penryn MacPro like I always wanted and I played the waiting game for several months before it came out. All this talk about new CPU architecture do interest me, how it surpasses the current line of processors. It doesn't bother or upset me at all if my MacPro gets replaced with a better one. That is because I enjoy what I have to the fullest(until it dies).

My previous computer was bought around 2001, and that was 8 years ago! I gave it to my cousin for general internet use and has no value for me since I got my first Mac. For media work, its the best thing I ever had, no more stuttering in audio when composing, 2D/3D work is much smoother. I've yet to see more applications that utilizes all 8 cores like handbrake. This going to last me for a while maybe 5-7 years. By that time, there's going to be another CPU arch. thats going to surpass Nehalem.

[mmendoza27]

I've got the Penryn MacPro like I always wanted and I played the waiting game for several months before it came out. All this talk about new CPU architecture do interest me, how it surpasses the current line of processors. It doesn't bother or upset me at all if my MacPro gets replaced with a better one. That is because I enjoy what I have to the fullest(until it dies).

My previous computer was bought around 2001, and that was 8 years ago! I gave it to my cousin for general internet use and has no value for me since I got my first Mac. For media work, its the best thing I ever had, no more stuttering in audio when composing, 2D/3D work is much smoother. I've yet to see more applications that utilizes all 8 cores like handbrake. This going to last me for a while maybe 5-7 years. By that time, there's going to be another CPU arch. thats going to surpass Nehalem.

I'd agree that it would be like that with any Mac Pro bought recently. 8 processors is more than enough and I'd be happy with that too. I've been happy with my Merom 17" MacBook Pro, but it's about that time to look forward.

[TwinCities Dan]

Holy crap! You're either crazy or filthy rich. Macs last long enough that you should wait a lot longer between upgrades. I only bought my Macbook because my iBook had finally started to crap out -- after seven years -- but it still works. There are people on here that wait ten years between upgrades for their desktops.


3 years is about my max (4 and I start to itch) ;):D

No, I'm not rich but I gotta get a new one after that long... :)

[louden]

All this talk about Nehalem - what chip would/could Apple use in a small tablet? Is that chip out yet?

[flopticalcube]

All this talk about Nehalem - what chip would/could Apple use in a small tablet? Is that chip out yet?

Atom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverthorne_(CPU)), just coming out now.

[CWallace]

Atom is a dog of a chip right now, so they may want to use the 22mm package Penryns at the slower clock speeds.

[Gunga Din]

I thought the safe bet was to count on the re-design with the new chipset - which is Montevena - and we should see it soon.

Yea, i'm bascially targeting 2010 because i think SSD and Blu Ray will be most affordable then. Those are 2 things i'm looking for in a MBP. 2009 might offer but the price will still be too high. 2010 looks like a great target.

Its not the chipset thats important anymore. Its the new technology. SSD and Blu Ray. Thats what I think is more important. Heck even quad core. I just think 2010 will be a better buy.

[igxqrrl]

Atom is a dog of a chip right now, so they may want to use the 22mm package Penryns at the slower clock speeds.

Where did you hear that? Early reviews seem to be positive:
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3321&p=9

The performance aspect of the Eee Box is entirely due to Intel, whose Atom processor delivers as promised. At 1.6GHz the Intel Atom offers somewhere around the performance of a 800MHz - 1.2GHz Pentium M depending on the task at hand. What's even more impressive is that the Atom will offer this sort of performance in handheld devices before the end of the year and in high end smartphones by 2009/2010.

That's about the perfect performance envelope for a tablet.

[bigwig]

Nehalem is quite impressive, though I think USB 3.0, FireWire 3200, Blu-Ray, and eSATA would be more substantial additions to a Mac's usability than Nehalem.

[Digital Skunk]

if my MacPro gets replaced with a better one.

Don't worry, it will get replaced and soon.

By that time, there's going to be another CPU arch. thats going to surpass Nehalem.

That's what everyone says.... :rolleyes: But this one, Nehalem, is going to be it. There won't be anything faster. ;)

[nuckinfutz]

Nehalem is quite impressive, though I think USB 3.0, FireWire 3200, Blu-Ray, and eSATA would be more substantial additions to a Mac's usability than Nehalem.

Having faster connections is nice but a CPU that is significantly faster is something that delivers a ROI everytime you use it. In fact USB is dependent on the CPU for maintaining connection and to an extent so would eSATA. I'm going to say that Nehalem with it's hyperthreading should deliver much more of an impact than any of the other technologies you've mentioned. They are certainly the cream on top of a good platform though.

[tbear1]

I'm hoping for a cheap Montevina (Mini? Please?) so that I can toss out the PC and have a couple of machines that I won't have to upgrade for a very. long. time.

Me too, especially if 10.6 will be Intel only. If that ends up being accurate, it would push me to upgrade my G4 mini.

Glenn

[Romanesq]

Holy crap! You're either crazy or filthy rich. Macs last long enough that you should wait a lot longer between upgrades. I only bought my Macbook because my iBook had finally started to crap out -- after seven years -- but it still works. There are people on here that wait ten years between upgrades for their desktops.

I'm hoping for a cheap Montevina (Mini? Please?) so that I can toss out the PC and have a couple of machines that I won't have to upgrade for a very. long. time.

There was a time back in the day when I was the master at upgrades. Selling the Mac Classic just in time to get max value and buy a IIsi. (Those that know, know.)

But you are wrong about the upgrade cycle. Three years is more typical of folks although I recently gave my very good working Powerbook AL 15" to a marine and for the first time am sitting on old stuff with no backup machine. I'm using a mac mini core solo which for most things is just fine.

Would not mind getting a new updated mini or a used Penryn laptop but the one now that is not running as hot. I like that.

And I would love to wait until this new chip is in a laptop but that may not be feasible.

On the whole I've been way beyond the curve. I would imagine that people have overlapping machines in their family and three years would be about right for many/most to upgrade at least one machine.

I'm quite sure Apple has extensive research on this for their customer base. And I'm guessing that it's typically a faster cycle than PCs now.

No one is out buying new pc's to support Vista. Shoot most people can't get their peripherals to work with Vista, no matter the hardware.
:eek:

[AidenShaw]

In fact USB is dependent on the CPU for maintaining connection and to an extent so would eSATA.

THere's no protocol difference between SATA and eSATA - the eSATA spec describes a more robust connector and a cable spec that can go 2 metres instead of 1.

You can buy cables with one end eSATA (often called the "I" connector) and the other end SATA (the "L" connector).

http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/12-203-028-02.jpg

[tbear1]

I wish instead of a 20-50% increase in power and a 10% increase in power usage, Nehalem was 20-50% more energy efficient with say a 10% increase in computing power. I mean I know this doesn't more for the server grade versions of these chips, but I can't do anything very intense (word process, browse web)with my MBP and still get 3hrs batt life. What good is a 20-50% power increase if your lappy is dead (therefore a 100% power decrease:()

I'm just saying (and I know it is difficult, its not like other companies are doing it and apple isnt) it would be nice for a mobile workstation to be, well, mobile

My concern from the article is also the power consumption... I am mostly interested in Nehalem from a mobile standpoint. I would like the balance to favor better battery life.

Since I am a MB user, I would also like better integrated graphics. I am awaiting reviews of Nehalem with the on-board graphincs. I didn't think the x3100 integrated graphics was much of an improvement over the 950 that I have. The jury appears to still be out on the x4500.

Glenn

[diamond.g]

My concern from the article is also the power consumption... I am mostly interested in Nehalem from a mobile standpoint. I would like the balance to favor better battery life.

Since I am a MB user, I would also like better integrated graphics. I am awaiting reviews of Nehalem with the on-board graphincs. I didn't think the x3100 integrated graphics was much of an improvement over the 950 that I have. The jury appears to still be out on the x4500.

Glenn

The power consumption is only 10W more than existing Intel mobile chips with 2 more cores. If that isn't efficiency then I would like to know what is. The dual core parts are apart of the value line and will include a GPU and still dissipate the same 35W/45W that current parts dissipate.

From my understanding Larabee (supposedly the IGP to be used) is going to be pretty good, but no one is sure what nvidia and ati have waiting in the wings. Really Intels biggest problem is drivers. The X3100 is supposed to be way better than how it is currently performing.

[AidenShaw]

No one is out buying new pc's to support Vista. Shoot most people can't get their peripherals to work with Vista, no matter the hardware. :eek:

And how well does your ADB keyboard work with your Imac? How well do your PCI cards work in your Macpro?

Thought so..... :p

Of course some older devices were left behind by Vista, but my printer, scanner, external drives, Adaptec SCSI card, Promise eSATA card, 3ware SATA RAID card,... are all supported by both Vista x86 and Vista x64. In my experience, most Windows XP/Windows 2003 drivers work fine in Vista x86. Windows 2000 drivers which worked in XP tend not to work in Vista, but sometimes that's an installer bug ("what's Windows 6.0?") that a manual install will get past.

I think the sales figures for HP/Dell/Lenovo/Toshiba/Acer... show that in fact people *are* buying PCs for Vista.

Vista device support, especially 32-bit, is pretty good. Don't spread "misinformation", and don't buy the distortions and half-truths in the PC-MAC ads.

[CWallace]

Where did you hear that? Early reviews seem to be positive:
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3321&p=9

That's about the perfect performance envelope for a tablet.

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7595&Itemid=1

I think this site is pro-AMD, so they may be highlighting the negative aspects of the chip, but the benchmarks they did show aren't very good.

[mmendoza27]

Yea, i'm bascially targeting 2010 because i think SSD and Blu Ray will be most affordable then. Those are 2 things i'm looking for in a MBP. 2009 might offer but the price will still be too high. 2010 looks like a great target.

Its not the chipset thats important anymore. Its the new technology. SSD and Blu Ray. Thats what I think is more important. Heck even quad core. I just think 2010 will be a better buy.

You know, you are exactly right. I'm pretty sure that this new processor is going to be quad-core, if you look at the Intel roadmap, they're mainstream mobile processor is a quad-core while the value mobile processor is dual-core with integrated graphics which seems more a MacBook route.

As for SSD and Blu-ray, if I truly needed those technologies, those could be upgraded. SSD is going to the use the SATA interface, yes the technologies will be cheaper but I could always buy a SSD from newegg and install it. Or you could buy a Blu-ray burner externally or internally, they even do it now. Those possibilities are still there if I truly needed those.

However, USB 3.0 and FW3200, well you probably got me there. We'll see how many devices carry those technologies.

[igxqrrl]

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7595&Itemid=1

I think this site is pro-AMD, so they may be highlighting the negative aspects of the chip, but the benchmarks they did show aren't very good.

From the article:
It doesn't even render that well, as Cinebench was incredibly slow, slower than we've seen in years.

the CPU is great for surfing, typing, instant messanging and listening to music. It even plays videos just fine


To me, that review says that you won't want to do raytracing or video encoding on your atom-based tablet, but it's ideal for all the things you would want to do on a tablet.

The reviewer seems to be trying to compare Atom to a desktop processor, which is precisely the wrong thing to do. As a parallel, if you were to compare the ARM CPU in the iPhone to a desktop CPU it would benchmark pretty poorly as well. But for what it's designed to do, it's entirely sufficient.

[bobertoq]

:eek: This... 256 GB SSD (MacBook Air)... Snow Leopard (10.6)... :eek: Dang! :apple: I should a while to get my new Apple products...

Man I cannot imagine how much better Mac OS X will run with Snow Leopard, Intel Nehalem (quad-core possibly :D), maybe DDR3 RAM? :D

[Digital Skunk]

Yeah, I can't wait for the SSDs and quad core processors to come to.

God help us all if 10.6 is going to be called Snow Leopard. I still think it should be called Black Panther if they are going to be regurgitating names. Since leopards aren't "snow" colored and panthers are "black"

Either way, I do hope that we get a tablet or laptop or Air or something that has outstanding battery life. I mean, I want to unplug it and use it ALL DAY LONG and have the battery go down to 13% at the least.

A true device where I can work and leave the plug at home.

[gnasher729]

3 years is about my max (4 and I start to itch) ;):D

No, I'm not rich but I gotta get a new one after that long... :)

To put the cost into perspective: A pack of 20 cigarettes costs £5.50. MacBook starts at £699. That's 127 packs of cigarettes, or 4 months of light smoking. If a smoker in the UK reduces his or her consumption by 2.32 cigarettes a day, they save enough to buy a MacBook every three years.

Seems you have to be _both_ crazy _and_ filthy rich to be a smoker.

[beyondthesmile]

Interesting stuff!

I want to buy my first MBP in the fall/winter so I probably won't wait for Nehalem. For my uses (internet, email, chatting, office apps, movies and music, managing photos, etc...no gaming) even the more basic laptops out there would probably suffice, and whatever MBP I end up getting (probably a Montevina one) will be more than powerful enough for my use. I tend to upgrade my computer every 2 - 3 years or so, so it's not like whatever I buy will be my one and only computer for life, lol. I'll probably just buy what is out this fall/winter, the exception being if something new is right around the corner (a few weeks or less away) when it comes time for me to buy, in which case I'd wait the few weeks.

It's hard not to get excited for the next big thing, though! I have to remind myself that with my uses I might not even see a big difference in performance/make use of new features, and that I can always upgrade again in the future, lol.

[TwinCities Dan]

To put the cost into perspective: A pack of 20 cigarettes costs £5.50. MacBook starts at £699. That's 127 packs of cigarettes, or 4 months of light smoking. If a smoker in the UK reduces his or her consumption by 2.32 cigarettes a day, they save enough to buy a MacBook every three years.

Seems you have to be _both_ crazy _and_ filthy rich to be a smoker.

Mom, is that you?!? :eek:

J/K but yes that does put things (subsidies?) into perspective doesn't it? :D

(TCDan = still smokin', drinkin', and using lots of gasoline) :eek:

[ingenious]

bring them on! (before the middle of august so i can get one for school... please? :D )

[diamond.g]

bring them on! (before the middle of august so i can get one for school... please? :D )

Hope you realize that Nehalem isnt supposed to come out until the end of this year at the earliest. :(

[Tallest Skil]

bring them on! (before the middle of august so i can get one for school... please? :D )

No way. Not happening. Not even this year. It'll be late spring of 2009 before anything but the Mac Pro has Nehalem.

[Digital Skunk]

No way. Not happening. Not even this year. It'll be late spring of 2009 before anything but the Mac Pro has Nehalem.

And this is what I expected. I keep trying to tell anyone that needs a new book to grab one now. The next big improvement in power (Nehalem) isn't due til January for the desktop chips, let alone the portable ones.

[DiamondMac]

bring them on! (before the middle of august so i can get one for school... please? :D )

Your best bet is to buy one now and as the other posters above me stated, you will be waiting too long for the next big change

[danvdr]

Never mind. (edited):o