Fury of the FANS of a woman scorned

[Thomas Veil]

I realize that Hillary's concession has only just happened, but I really hope that her nuttier contingent will calm down and start to think about things rationally. Some of the stuff that is being said out there is straight out of cuckooland:

At Clinton finale, anger aimed at Chris Matthews, news media (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40203.html)

WASHINGTON — Bettyjean Kling is tough, she's mad and she's about ready to kick some pasty MSNBC butt.

"Chris Matthews, I can't even look at him anymore," Kling spat as she waited for Hillary Clinton to take the stage. "What's the name of that other nut?"

"Keith Olbermann," offered a friend.

"Keith Obama-man," growled Kling, a retired special ed teacher from Shippensburg, Pa....

It seemed to be more bitter than sweet for many, however, with special acid reserved for the media. Several of the hundreds gathered here said they thought that unfair news coverage helped Illinois Sen. Barack Obama win the Democratic presidential nomination. Other common culprits were the Democratic National Committee and the party superdelegates, who helped swing the nomination to Obama in the last few weeks.

"I'm mad at everybody," said Darla Stone, a prison nurse from Locust Grove, Va....

Obama, meanwhile, has some work to do. Some Clinton voters said they'd vote for John McCain, the Republican nominee. Some said they wouldn't vote at all. Many were grudgingly accepting.

"Will I vote for McCain? No," said Angelia Ifantides, a teacher from Fairfax, Va. who wore a pink t-shirt with Clinton's face silk-screened on it in red. "Will I put an Obama sticker on my car? Probably not. I'll accept it in November. I have right to be angry 'til then."...

"Every moment wasted looking back keeps us from moving forward," Clinton concluded. "That's why I'm going to work my heart out to make Barack Obama president."

Applause — hardly universal, and scattered with boos — filled the hall.

At the back of the room, shoulders slumped, stood Bettyjean Kling. She slowly shook her curly-haired head side to side. She wiped away tears.

She didn't clap.So once again, it's the media's fault.

Shooting the messenger is nothing new -- although shooting the superdelegates and the Rules Committee may be -- but it's amazing to me that these people are putting their anger everywhere except where it belongs: on their candidate.

I already had my doubts about Hillary when she failed to withdraw from the Michigan election. At that point I thought she was "merely" deceitful. But Hillary lost me for good when she stood on the stage with Barack Obama at a debate and said how proud and thrilled she was to be in the same race with him, and the very next morning screamed, "Shame on you, Barack Obama!" to the television cameras. That was the first time I began to infer that the woman was bipolar or had something else wrong with her.

And then of course she went on that straw-grasping jag about the popular vote and how she does better with white folks. It just kept going downhill, and while Obama kept his cool and looked presidential, she did the opposite.

So while the media can and do deserve their fair share of criticism, this isn't one of those times.

The other thing that angers me is this sense of entitlement -- that because a woman deserves to be president, this woman deserves to be president. I've never voted for a candidate strictly because of his or her gender. Why should I start now? Sexism my ass. It's not sexism that did Hillary in, it's a combination of a charismatic challenger plus her own behavior.

I've voted for a fair number of women candidates in my time, most recently Rep. Betty Sutton for Congress, but at this point I can't see myself voting for Hillary for anything anymore. I think the campaign brought out her true colors, and they're really garish.

[Blue Velvet]

Feeling are still raw. And it's not just Hillary Clinton supporters who define their vote in terms of identity politics.

It has been reported that amongst the crowd at her campaign suspension and endorsement speech, the booing only came from less than a handful. These are people on the political fringe, not the army that some pundits make out, and even if it were so, there are plenty of other demographics that could well be put into play for Barack Obama in November that will easily outweigh the numbers of disillusioned Hillary followers.

After just a day, I note that even the vast majority of hardcore, headstrong ranters on Hillaryis44 and similar sites are now talking about spoiling their ballot with a vote for Hillary, rather than a vote for John McCain.

After a summer of reflection and the campaigns staking out their early positions, the vast majority of minds will be focussed on the real choice in front of them. By October, all of this will be all so much history.

[zioxide]

This is why the 19th amendment was the worst mistake this country made. :p ;)
In case you can't tell, I'm kidding

[leekohler]

I've voted for a fair number of women candidates in my time, most recently Rep. Betty Sutton for Congress, but at this point I can't see myself voting for Hillary for anything anymore. I think the campaign brought out her true colors, and they're really garish.

I warned everyone about her a long time ago and got called crazy for it. As far as I'm concerned, she and Bill showed their true colors last time they were in office. I don't ever want a Clinton or Bush near the White House again.

[Thomas Veil]

This is why the 19th amendment was the worst mistake this country made. :p ;)
In case you can't tell, I'm kiddingI know you're kidding, but I can tell you that there will be people who will point to Hillary's behavior and say, "See? That's why I'd never vote for a woman for president. Too conniving/emotional/illogical/whatever."

As if none of those accusations could be laid at the feet of a male politician. :rolleyes: But you see what I mean. Hillary, being the first viable woman candidate for prez, didn't exactly run a dignified campaign. Which I think actually hurts the women's cause in the long run.

[leekohler]

I know you're kidding, but I can tell you that there will be people who will point to Hillary's behavior and say, "See? That's why I'd never vote for a woman for president. Too conniving/emotional/illogical/whatever."

As if none of those accusations could be laid at the feet of a male politician. :rolleyes: But you see what I mean. Hillary, being the first viable woman candidate for prez, didn't exactly run a dignified campaign. Which I think actually hurts the women's cause in the long run.

Yes, it does. She could have been different. Instead, she chose to be business-as-usual, and that's not what the country wants or needs.

[skunk]

But you see what I mean. Hillary, being the first viable woman candidate for prez, didn't exactly run a dignified campaign. Which I think actually hurts the women's cause in the long run.She was just a candidate like any other. To treat her differently or to hold her to different standards because of her gender is rank hypocrisy. You would not claim that a less-than-stellar male candidate hurt the men's cause, would you?

[themadchemist]

To be fair, Chris Matthews is a nutter...And a blatantly sexist one at that. He really was a complete jerk to Clinton throughout the campaign, though I fear he can't help it. But of course, to attribute the loss to that is ludicrous. I'd say chief at play was really bad spot of luck: Any other year, a campaign run as well as hers would have swept; she just happened to be running against an impossibly well-organized and well-loved opponent.

[solvs]

While there were those being unfair to Clinton, even in the beginning, and I've seen the b-word mentioned even here, which I don't think is appropriate as I mentioned in the now closed thread about her, as I also said, she made things worse for herself. Complaining about some of the press I get, but it went further than that. She acted like it was a conspiracy to get her, which some of her more :ahem: faithful supporters took as gospel and ran with. Same with GOP supporters when they blame that darn liberal media. To the rest of us it just smacks of desperation, and gives legitimacy to the claims the press makes, but to those who care that much it's an easy excuse so as not to have to look at the failings of those they support. Unfortunately, some of her fans have taken it to the extreme. Besides blaming Obama, I also read something earlier about someone defacing the car of a super who supported Hillary, but then switched to Obama. Here's what really happened, and why although they can blame Obama for running a good campaign, her team has only themselves to blame for her loss:

The Long Road to a Clinton Exit (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/08/us/politics/08recon.html?partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all)

The mistakes Clinton herself made, the way she acted though, that is what lost it for a lot of us. Some of it was sickening. Some of it was sad. And the more her supporters defended it, the worse it seemed. I was more disappointed than anything. Again, I don't think it deserved quite as bad as some gave, but she did bring at least some of the ill will on herself, if not most. Her supporters and staff making up for some of the rest. It wasn't that we held her to different standards, just that maybe some of us thought she would, if not better than most men, at least better than people like Bush. Sadly, some of what she said and did sure made it seem like she was just as bad.

[Thomas Veil]

She was just a candidate like any other. To treat her differently or to hold her to different standards because of her gender is rank hypocrisy. You would not claim that a less-than-stellar male candidate hurt the men's cause, would you?No...but only because men aren't trying to break into the club. They run the club.

[themadchemist]

I know you're kidding, but I can tell you that there will be people who will point to Hillary's behavior and say, "See? That's why I'd never vote for a woman for president. Too conniving/emotional/illogical/whatever."

As if none of those accusations could be laid at the feet of a male politician. :rolleyes: But you see what I mean. Hillary, being the first viable woman candidate for prez, didn't exactly run a dignified campaign. Which I think actually hurts the women's cause in the long run.

Now you're starting to sound like Maureen Dowd. Honestly, if she behaves the good party woman now, I don't think anyone will remember her candidacy too badly. Her success definitely did more to help women than hurt, without a doubt. She gave them hope to aspire: Little girls can dream to be President and have a reason to think that's a credible dream. The same goes for Obama; he gave minority kids a reason to believe that their highest hopes are achievable.

[atszyman]

Here's a fun op-ed (http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/06/08/feminists_the_choice_is_obvious/) for the "bitter" Clinton supporters.

I'm sure that the vast majority will come around in the next couple months and the biggest reason they have to get out and vote for Obama. John Paul Stevens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Paul_Stevens) should be reason enough for any of Clinton's supporters to back Obama.

[Klaxons2012]

Here's a fun op-ed (http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/06/08/feminists_the_choice_is_obvious/) for the "bitter" Clinton supporters.

I'm sure that the vast majority will come around in the next couple months and the biggest reason they have to get out and vote for Obama. John Paul Stevens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Paul_Stevens) should be reason enough for any of Clinton's supporters to back Obama.

He's a major reason why I'll actively support Obama even if I don't end up voting for him.

[trebblekicked]

i'm not going to throw salt on the wounds of the second-generation feminists that are really smarting from this loss, but i put most of the blame for their intractability on hillary clinton's campaign.

it was dangerous and irresponsible of clinton to frame the florida and michigan situation as though she was wronged, and by allowing her that angle, the media effectively bred the notion so popular amongst her angriest supporters that the election was stolen. the appeasement on the issue of the popular vote is another such narrative. she fostered and nurtured the notion of the "stolen election" in her supporters, and this is the main reason i and many others thought she was hurting the party with her campaign.

obama won the election fair and square. i feel bad for her supporters who worked so hard to see her get elected, and will respect their "grieving" period, hoping they come around by november. but there's nothing i can say or do that will change their minds. it's got to come from hillary and through the supporters themselves.