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MacRumors
Dec 1, 2003, 07:13 PM
Appleinsider claims (http://www.appleinsider.com/news.php?id=253) that the 'Home on iPod' will return in an upcoming incarnation of Mac OS X 10.3.

Most of the information (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/10/20031008183849.shtml) about the Home on iPod feature comes from Apple itself, when it left the description up on one of the Panther information pages.

Home away from home

Ever thought you could carry your home in the palm of your hands or in your pocket? You can. Panther's Home on iPod feature lets you store your home directory — files, folders, apps — on your iPod (or any FireWire hard drive) and take it with you wherever you go. When you find yourself near a Panther-equipped Mac, just plug in the iPod, log in, and you’re “home,” no matter where you happen to be. And when you return to your home computer, you can synchronize any changes you’ve made to your files by using File Sync, which automatically updates offline changes to your home directory.

The feature is not available under Panther as described, and this description was quickly removed from Apple's site after Panther's release. A cached copy of Apple's page is still available here (http://www.macrumors.com/downloads/applemobility.html).

millhouse
Dec 1, 2003, 07:15 PM
this sounds like an awsome feature as i currently use my iPod to cart our chapel presentations onto my friends panther equipped powerbook. i wonder if it would let you choose which folders from your home dir would go with you, and if fonts and all that good stuff could go, since i only have a 10gb iPod i cant fit my home folder on that considering 3.62 gigs are taken by music alone.

Mudbug
Dec 1, 2003, 07:24 PM
I agree with millhouse - this is definitely a cool thing. Wasn't there rumored to be another panther build to come out soon (i.e. 10.3.2) - if so, do any of the developers have it yet, and could they, um, hint at a yea or nay without breaking an NDA.

evolu
Dec 1, 2003, 07:24 PM
i use 2 macs @my office and at 1@home - been hoping this feature would come around soon... would work well on my 30 Gig ;)

obeygiant
Dec 1, 2003, 07:27 PM
I think this is great feature. If think about what computers will be like in the future, they will infiltrate into every facet of our lives. So in order to interact with the environment we'll have to "log in" everywhere we go (house,car,office, store). This iPod feature along with the multi-user feature in osx seems to be moving away from the personal computer paradigm toward an 'everywhere computer'.

millhouse
Dec 1, 2003, 07:30 PM
good point, i think this mobility thing will be great, and will make the mac more friendly towards life, the fact that i can be at home working, sync some folders on my iPod, then go to a friends house, plug in and im right where i left off is great, no longer do i have to copy this file and that and make sure i copy it back to my home computer.

jero
Dec 1, 2003, 07:31 PM
man that sounds like a sweet feature, for sure.

stoid
Dec 1, 2003, 07:35 PM
yes!!

I can now "own" a PowerMac G5!! Just jack into a dual 2 at the Apple Store or CompUSA and BANG!! WoooHOOO!

MrMacMan
Dec 1, 2003, 07:47 PM
Hm... that would be a little hard for me... becaue I have like 50 GB of data in like One Folder...

But I guess to store Documents or pictures that would be great.

:D

Cool.

MattG
Dec 1, 2003, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by stoid
yes!!

I can now "own" a PowerMac G5!! Just jack into a dual 2 at the Apple Store or CompUSA and BANG!! WoooHOOO! :) If only it were that easy.

yoman
Dec 1, 2003, 07:53 PM
This can work with any firewire drive. True it wouldn't be as fun as moving your ipod around but a hard drive is easier to carry around then a desktop.

Also in 3-4 revisions of the ipod its capacity could be in the 80-120GB range so this would be quite feasable for future ipods.

punter
Dec 1, 2003, 07:56 PM
hmm it might take a little management for those with over 40gigs in their home directory (me). I'd have to put them somewhere they wouldn't get picked up by the ipod.

But otherwise it sounds unreal. Would you plug it in and just fast user switch to your account? Not just have the files available, but all your settings as well. Fantastic

Trowaman
Dec 1, 2003, 08:08 PM
w00t, w00t, w00t.

This will be grand when (if) I get what I want for X-mas.

1macker1
Dec 1, 2003, 08:11 PM
I'm wondering if you could take some files (mp3s) from your home folder, and dump them on the computer you have your iPod connected to.

macrumors12345
Dec 1, 2003, 08:12 PM
I MUST HAVE this feature. I am buying an old B&W G3 for the office just in anticipation of using this with my iPod (I'm sure the G3 will compare very favorably to my home computer...Dual G5).

hokka
Dec 1, 2003, 08:12 PM
What happens if you:

1]. don't have .Mac?
2]. have to work on a PC at work? I know, obviously syncing don't work but I just want to point out not everyone are fortunate enough to have both Macs at work AND home

That's why this is only useful to a small sector of Mac users

Mr.Hey
Dec 1, 2003, 08:14 PM
Does it have to be on an iPod?....can't this feature be used with any portable firewire HD. I really don't want to use a very expensive $400-500 HD for this kind of work.






;)

ITR 81
Dec 1, 2003, 08:18 PM
10.3.2 is slated to come out sometime this month because Apple has asked all it's developers to make final corrections on the seeded copies. "Home on iPod" feature will not be included in the next update but could be included in the 10.3.3 update.

So I would say look for it around 2nd qtr of next yr. if Apple comes through and doesn't axe it for some reason.

nologo
Dec 1, 2003, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by Mudbug
I agree with millhouse - this is definitely a cool thing. Wasn't there rumored to be another panther build to come out soon (i.e. 10.3.2) - if so, do any of the developers have it yet, and could they, um, hint at a yea or nay without breaking an NDA.

I don't see it in 7D15 (Last reported 10.3.2 build).

I'm not 100% sure where to look though...

Any ideas?

tizza
Dec 1, 2003, 08:28 PM
Does sounds like a very cool feature. Actually I've found I've really appreciated having my iPod as a backup firewire drive too - a feature which I didn't think I'd use much but has turned out to be very useful.

The only thing I'm yet to do is update the firmware to v2.1, as I kept hearing reports of problems with it - oh well think I may just do it anyway!

hokka
Dec 1, 2003, 08:31 PM
Remember "Pal" ?? -->

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030603132519.shtml

and the "light-bulb" images that appeared on the web in June, it's pretty much what we're speculating here, right Arn?

TomSmithMacEd
Dec 1, 2003, 08:46 PM
Someone wondered if it only worked on the iPod. IN the article it said that you can use it with any firewire harddrive.

Sabenth
Dec 1, 2003, 08:49 PM
I dont own an iPod but i would use this feature without a doubt for a lot of work ...

Tulse
Dec 1, 2003, 08:51 PM
This does indeed sound like an insanely useful feature. It also sounds like it's a great way to sell new iPods, since a) the smaller capacity models aren't going to hold most people's home directory, and b) using your iPod to serve up your home directory is going to seriously strain its hard drive -- my understanding was that the HD in the iPod isn't really built for this kind of constant use. (When playing music, the iPod's HD isn't spinning for most of the time.)

Maybe the "Home on iPod" feature is just a way to get people to burn out their iPods so they'll buy new ones...

itsbetteronamac
Dec 1, 2003, 08:58 PM
I am possible going to get an ipod for x-mas, so I am quite happy about this. I have only one question. I have a mac at home (of course). But I have PC's at school or mac's with 9. So my question is that would you be able to access the files in you home via like USB 2.0? becuase I always do all my work on the computer and if I forget somthing I would love to just be able to get the file.

This is alot easier than selecting the files you want on you ipod. With the home on ipod I could just have all my documets and all my every thing with me all the time.

Alex Wrege
Dec 1, 2003, 09:00 PM
iPod or FirewireHD?

I personally own an iPod but for the feature at hand I would probably opt for another solution. The Apple Stores have SmartDisk's FireLite 40GB FireWire Drive available for just about
230 bucks.
They are just about as small as the iPod, do not require an external power source, and have a better dollar/gigabyte ratio. I'd probably rather have a smaller iPod (well, actually I have a 15 GB one) and have firewire hd as a supplement. That way I also wouldn't have to worry about using up hd-space on "my preciousss" ... iPod, that is.

Smartdisk's website (http://www.smartdisk.com) or check the Apple Online Store under "Storage"

Alex

coumerelli
Dec 1, 2003, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Alex Wrege
iPod or FirewireHD?

I personally own an iPod but for the feature at hand I would probably opt for another solution. The Apple Stores have SmartDisk's FireLite 40GB FireWire Drive available for just about
230 bucks.
They are just about as small as the iPod, do not require an external power source, and have a better dollar/gigabyte ratio. I'd probably rather have a smaller iPod (well, actually I have a 15 GB one) and have firewire hd as a supplement. That way I also wouldn't have to worry about using up hd-space on "my preciousss" ... iPod, that is.

Smartdisk's website (http://www.smartdisk.com) or check the Apple Online Store under "Storage"

Alex

Please read the 'entire' rumor that is posted. In it it explains that you can use an iPod OR any other firewire HD.

AirUncleP
Dec 1, 2003, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by macrumors12345
I MUST HAVE this feature. I am buying an old B&W G3 for the office just in anticipation of using this with my iPod (I'm sure the G3 will compare very favorably to my home computer...Dual G5).

Going from a Dual G5 at home to a B&W G3 at work......hhhmmmm.... kind of reminds me of Hugh Grant. Going from Elizabeth Hurley at home to Devine Brown in some Hollywood park restroom.

MacandCheese
Dec 1, 2003, 09:06 PM
This iPod is becoming so versatile by the moment. Now I have no excuse not to be productive while at school. God bless america, beer and steve jobs!

gwuMACaddict
Dec 1, 2003, 09:23 PM
this is a pretty bitchin' feature... i already use my Pod to swap large photoshop files between computers at home and work and school. this would be even better.

:D

doc
Dec 1, 2003, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by AirUncleP
Going from a Dual G5 at home to a B&W G3 at work......hhhmmmm.... kind of reminds me of Hugh Grant. Going from Elizabeth Hurley at home to Devine Brown in some Hollywood park restroom.

Some may say it was Liz at work but...

There have been some interesting points raised in this thread. The most interesting being the fact that the feature would have to be cross platform. a lot of enlightened users have to go to an office and use the hardware they are supplied with.

the sych would have to work seemlessly between any platform and as such is quite a technological hurdle. perhaps this is the reason for the delay.

On a business level, it would be tantamount to a coup for apple to release a bit of hardware that interfaces dull beige boxes with whatever a user would prefer to use in the comfort of their own four walls.

Bring it on!

kcmac
Dec 1, 2003, 09:31 PM
Wasn't this talked about in the last keynote by Jobs as a feature for Panther? It just didn't make it but maybe it will soon.

hokka
Dec 1, 2003, 09:52 PM
Here's the Pal image posted around June:

zim
Dec 1, 2003, 10:42 PM
This feature has me extremely excited!!! How do you think it would work? would I connect and if on the log in section be able to actually log in to any computer as me? and if say I am already logged in, would it just show up as a hard drive... so many questions, can't wait to see this in action.

~Shard~
Dec 1, 2003, 11:06 PM
I thought this was an excellent feature when I initially read about it on MR, and was surprised and a little disappointed that it wasn't actually included in Panther. It would be great to see it in 10.3.3 or some upcoming release, and I can see how a lot of people will be making a lot of use out of it.

daddy-mojo
Dec 1, 2003, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by doc
Some may say it was Liz at work but...

There have been some interesting points raised in this thread. The most interesting being the fact that the feature would have to be cross platform. a lot of enlightened users have to go to an office and use the hardware they are supplied with.

the sych would have to work seemlessly between any platform and as such is quite a technological hurdle. perhaps this is the reason for the delay.

On a business level, it would be tantamount to a coup for apple to release a bit of hardware that interfaces dull beige boxes with whatever a user would prefer to use in the comfort of their own four walls.

Bring it on!

why cross platform? it is a panther feature after all, not win. bring it to the platform of choice. how would you & what would you sync with a completely different operating system. seems like it would be making a hell of a lot more work and potential for problems. luckily i'm fortunate enough to have macs at work and at home, so this feature would be fine with me just as it is, mac only (or at least at first).

splashman
Dec 1, 2003, 11:30 PM
While I can certainly see that the "Home on iPod" feature will be a boon to some, it seems to me that the iPod's HD is too slow for any serious work (large files, lengthy work sessions). I have no idea what the specs on the Toshiba drive are, but it "feels" slow, and drives for portables are optimized for reduced power consumption (slower seek time and platter speed). I'm guessing even a PowerBook HD would smoke the iPod drive.

I can see the iPod being useful as a quick-and-dirty solution, and it definitely pegs the "cool" meter, but if I had frequent need of such a thing, I'd get a "real" FireWire HD and suffer the size/weight penalty.

If I were still a teenager, on the other hand . . .

MrMacMan
Dec 1, 2003, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by hokka
What happens if you:

1]. don't have .Mac?
2]. have to work on a PC at work? I know, obviously syncing don't work but I just want to point out not everyone are fortunate enough to have both Macs at work AND home

That's why this is only useful to a small sector of Mac users
1) It doesn't say anything about .Mac
2) It would probably access, just be able to modify the files like any other drive can.

Originally posted by hokka
Remember "Pal" ?? -->

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030603132519.shtml

and the "light-bulb" images that appeared on the web in June, it's pretty much what we're speculating here, right Arn?
Corr...
Originally posted by hokka
Here's the Pal image posted around June:
ect!

We have a winner!

:)

edit:

splashman-- The iPod has a 4200 RPM... the data is also here:
http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2003/11_nov/news/cw_tosh_drives.htm

No its not a 'fast' drive, but its small... ah whever, you can use other firewire HD if you care...

sethypoo
Dec 1, 2003, 11:51 PM
Why was this feature taken away in the first place?

Awimoway
Dec 1, 2003, 11:57 PM
Ahahaha! This will be great for my new 30 GB iPod that arrived today even though I currently have only 9 GB of music.

Too bad I've left school and have no Macs at my workplace, but I am about to start working and I think/hope I will be in luck at my new place of employment.


Anyway, this is one more proof that most really good rumors are true, iWalk excepted. I remember all the Pal naysayers claiming Photoshop work. It makes a lot of sense that this would be Pal.

So the question is, what was the hold up and did it have anything to do with the leaked images earlier this year?

I just hope this will work better than FileVault.

SeaFox
Dec 2, 2003, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by sethypoo
Why was this feature taken away in the first place?

It wasn't ready for Panther's launch date.

Some of the underlying structure needed for it was found when people poked around in the dev. builds (may still be there). But the feature was never fully implemented and activated in the Gold Master.

adamberti
Dec 2, 2003, 12:57 AM
This sounds cool and all, but I think it has potential to be anti-productive too. I don't know about the rest of you, but I have enough distractions on my computer at home. If I was logged in at work as myself with all my files from home, I think I would suffer some productivity loss. It's got its uses, but I could see some sompanies saying No to employees using this feature.

Still, bring it on.

leenoble
Dec 2, 2003, 01:00 AM
Can someone please cite a precident for a major new feature being added in a x.x.+1 upgrade.
I can't recall a single one, but then it is before 7am here and I'm not fully awake.
I don't see it happening until 10.4 now. As far as I can recall these minor updates have only ever brought bug fixes and never new features. The only exception being that of 10.1 which brought menulets and better popup menus to the dock application icons. But then although that upgrade was free it was a. x.+1 upgrade not an x.x.+1 one.
I'd like to be proven wrong though.

Bengt77
Dec 2, 2003, 02:35 AM
Originally posted by leenoble
Can someone please cite a precident for a major new feature being added in a x.x.+1 upgrade.

The only one I can think of is Mac OS 8.5.1. It brought stability. :)

(And that, considering 8.5, was indeed a major new feature.)

Analog Kid
Dec 2, 2003, 04:41 AM
The irony is that it probably won't support the single most obvious use: music. Right now the music on the iPod is sorta hidden to make it harder for folks to use the iPod to shuttle music from machine to machine.

(Yes, it can be defeated quite easily... I know)

Right now I have 3 copies of all my music-- my home computer, my work computer and my iPod. Seems rather wasteful. I'd love to have the music library in one place only and save myself 20+20GB.

Great feature over all, though. And one I'd certainly get a lot of use from (and one that would get me to upgrade my iPod to a larger size, and then probably again when yet larger ones come around).

As far as speed-- from the rumor text it looks like it's possible to sync changes to another drive, so you'd be able to run from a fast drive and cart the slower, more portable, iPod.

I'd hope the syncing was an option though. I could easily imagine using this to plug into co-workers machines but wouldn't want my home directory copied over...

Really looking forward to this one! And it would ensure my iPod batteries were always topped up!

groovebuster
Dec 2, 2003, 04:52 AM
I think this just shows one thing again:

Panther was rushed into a release because of political reasons (Launch of the G5). It was still far from being finished. That's why they have to fix features now that were obviously still beta and implement some of the promised features that were supposed to be in the RC by service updates. I am not impressed...:(

groovebuster

Trimix
Dec 2, 2003, 04:57 AM
this is an excellent feature, especially if a company has field offices with similar tech set-up.
it sure would be brilliant - no need to carry the laptop unless you MUST be seen working in an airport lounge to get your self-esteem up :D

gola
Dec 2, 2003, 05:45 AM
Try out carbon copy cloner, which does just the same, except that it syncs the entire panther system (and thus requires a bit more room on the pod). Just plug in the firewire-disk and change the startupdisk and you are working in your own home-folder.

http://www.bombich.com/software/ccc.html

A great piece of software!

Phobophobia
Dec 2, 2003, 08:43 AM
Gola, the cool part about this new feature is that you don't have to install an operating system on your ipod, just your home folder and your files. Otherwise, you'd waste a whole lotta space on your iPod.

ntg
Dec 2, 2003, 08:57 AM
I can see a parallel here:-
First, we had Backup, which syncs docs to .Mac
Then, it was updated to sync with a local disk (iPod)

Now we have iSync which syncs between iPod and .mac

All we need next is the link with a local disk.......

gola
Dec 2, 2003, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by Phobophobia
Gola, the cool part about this new feature is that you don't have to install an operating system on your ipod, just your home folder and your files. Otherwise, you'd waste a whole lotta space on your iPod.

I would expect it to become a problem to implement this just for the above reasons. It is always a lot of different versions of operating systems out there, so one would be limited by that if one just carried around the home folder. Would a home-folder in the future - on say 10.3.5 work on for instance 10.3.15 or 10.3.2?

As the iPods keep getting bigger, it will not be a problem carrying around the whole system, and it works even on an machine only running os9! So I don´t see this idea from apple as anything with any lasting value.

macnews
Dec 2, 2003, 09:21 AM
I think this would be a cool feature. Starting with the 20GB iPods I think you have some room for files - not all for some on this list of course. But at least being able to transfer some select files or a frequently used "work" folder would be great.

As for saving the whole OS, not required. And the differences in the OS version number (i.e. 10.3.15, 10.3.2 or 10.3.5) SHOULDN'T make a difference. When you boot from a CD, like any system utility disk, it doesn't have the entire operating system, just some key files needed to boot up. I would imagine this would be the same on the iPod with this "home on iPod" feature.

rei
Dec 2, 2003, 09:23 AM
to publicize this feature use the old tune :I got my home in my hand/cause I'm a travelin' man"

tny
Dec 2, 2003, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by sethypoo
Why was this feature taken away in the first place?

Speculation: we had the FireWire drive issues AND the FileVault issues. They may have been residuals of the problems integrating this feature into Panther.

mrsebastian
Dec 2, 2003, 11:24 AM
sounds good, as it would be a nice easy way to backup once a day.

gola
Dec 2, 2003, 12:19 PM
How about extending the pda-functions of the ipod to make it possible to edit the documents in the ipod home folder as well? Would be great and make a new sort of pda/portable computer hybrid....

Burrell
Dec 2, 2003, 05:06 PM
Amongst all the possibilities, I can see the day coming when multiple users can use one cpu simultaneously. The G5 & Unix underpinnings have the power to do it.

Can you imagine a school being sold on buying one G5, that can take up to 5 video cards to handle 5 students simultaneously?

Will Dell be able to lower their price to compete with that?

I do not think these possibilities have escaped Steve Jobs, and I would not be surprised to see this demoed in 5 weeks in San Francisco.

Bo

earlopogous
Dec 2, 2003, 05:37 PM
WOW! this is the best thing ever! but, i just realized something, since all the music is in the home directory, does this mean it will be copied twice. I hope not, cause that would be a big waste of space.

If and when this happens, i may just boot from my ipod all the time cause my ibook only has a 20 gig drive which doesnt really cut it.

SiliconAddict
Dec 2, 2003, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by Burrell
Amongst all the possibilities, I can see the day coming when multiple users can use one cpu simultaneously. The G5 & Unix underpinnings have the power to do it.

Can you imagine a school being sold on buying one G5, that can take up to 5 video cards to handle 5 students simultaneously?

Will Dell be able to lower their price to compete with that?


They already have such a thing. Its called the dumb terminal. Windows has had terminal services for years and only reciently integrated it into Windows with XP. MS has been working the most recient incarnation called "Smart Displays" (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/smartdisplay/) They typically run around $800-$1500 but the main reason for this is the touch screen display.

SeaFox
Dec 2, 2003, 11:59 PM
I certainly hope Apple's smart enough to make a "Don't sync Music folder" option for the Home directory copying. Sometimes the simplest things somehow don't appear until the second release of some software.

leenoble
Dec 3, 2003, 03:06 AM
No new features!

(see my previous post)

visor
Dec 3, 2003, 01:09 PM
Apple knows it, thats why they didn't introduce the feature. Usind the ipod for to long time as HD will cause serious damage to it.
I know cause I tried it, and had my iPod replaced afterwards.

visor
Dec 3, 2003, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by Burrell
Amongst all the possibilities, I can see the day coming when multiple users can use one cpu simultaneously. The G5 & Unix underpinnings have the power to do it.

Can you imagine a school being sold on buying one G5, that can take up to 5 video cards to handle 5 students simultaneously?


This is a VERY old idea. earlier you called it server/terminal solutions, and I had to work with it in school (in the 80's) IT WAS HELL. Work was extrodenarely slow, and extremely unnerving.

But if you wish, you can easiely try your way - install x11, and connect via ssh -X to a G5 near you. you can use every X11 compatible program locally.
I do this with my linux server sometimes.
Use OpenOffice, gimp, oracle installer, whatever.