WWDC 2008:Why is Apple waiting on Blu-Ray? [Archive]

Play4keeps

Jun 9, 2008, 09:01 PM

Im at a point where more drives is not the answer.5+TB is plenty (i need disk archives)
I quietly waited for WWDC 2008 Thinking Blu-Ray BANG NOT A WORD:confused:

Has ppl had any luck with aftermarket blue ray burnz if so which?

This issue has been bought up b4 but i hoped "WWDC 2008" (wrong)
would have changed that so back to the same BS of buying drives:mad:

Tallest Skil

Jun 9, 2008, 09:03 PM

Steve believes optical media to be dead. Thus, Apple will not invest in a dying technology.

Play4keeps

Jun 9, 2008, 09:17 PM

Steve believes optical media to be dead. Thus, Apple will not invest in a dying technology.

Sounds more like Steve Anthony Ballmer:eek:agree?

MacHappytjg

Jun 9, 2008, 09:25 PM

Steve believes optical media to be dead. Thus, Apple will not invest in a dying technology.

what about movies there always going to put it on something so u can buy it since not every one steals, or knows about torrents ooops i said to much

Lord Zedd

Jun 9, 2008, 09:27 PM

BluRay works great on Apple's system for burning/reading data. The only thing you can't do is watch HD movies with it.

There are several companies that sell mac-specific bluray drive kits.

Tallest Skil

Jun 9, 2008, 09:29 PM

what about movies there always going to put it on something so u can buy it since not every one steals, or knows about torrents ooops i said to much

Apple's solution is the iTunes Movie Store with HD downloads. Thus, no need for optical media.

MacHappytjg

Jun 9, 2008, 09:29 PM

BluRay works great on Apple's system for burning/reading data. The only thing you can't do is watch HD movies with it.

There are several companies that sell mac-specific bluray drive kits.

no crap hd dvd and bluray are different things they dont even make hd dvd anymore

Tallest Skil

Jun 9, 2008, 09:31 PM

no crap hd dvd and bluray are different things they dont even make hd dvd anymore

Excuse me, but yes, HD DVD drives are still manufactured. LG still has several models of Blu-ray/HD DVD combo drives. I have one of them.

He said NOTHING about HD DVD. HD means High Definition. Blu-ray is High Definition. HD movies can either be Blu-ray or HD DVD. Please do research.

Eidorian

Jun 9, 2008, 09:33 PM

No GPU based decoding of video in OS X.

skye12

Jun 9, 2008, 09:35 PM

It'll happen sometime later this year, first on the Mac Pro.

rpaloalto

Jun 9, 2008, 09:38 PM

I also don't see apple getting blue ray any time soon. I don't think Apple is ready allow hdcp in their machines.

If we do get blue ray. I have a feeling it would be non hdcp compliant. Intended for hd video projects. Or for those who desire to take advantage of the larger storage benefits. Just minus the hdcp so no Hollywood blue ray movies. At least until Apple is the only one left, not having blue ray drives.

Lord Zedd

Jun 9, 2008, 09:38 PM

No GPU based decoding of video in OS X.

They have plenty of power to decode the video, even the single CPU MacPro has ample power to handle it. Apple just does not have HDCP encryption support.

There really isn't any reason for them to NOT put it in their pro system right now or months ago, even for data storage and disc mastering. Like it or not, BluRay is the video format of choice and 4.7/8.5gb per disc just doesn't cut it anymore.

Bubba Satori

Jun 9, 2008, 10:02 PM

Steve believes optical media to be dead. Thus, Apple will not invest in a dying technology.

:rolleyes:

Firefly2002

Jun 9, 2008, 10:37 PM

Can you not watch Blu-Ray content while in Windows on the Mac Pro either?

If Steve says it's a dead technology, he's probably right. He's done/said things before that I've called him a moron for, and he's turned out to be right.

Granted, most of what he says *is* ********, but that's only when he's covering up for failures (like for example, his BS excuse that "the industry has hit a wall with 90nm" which was meaningless since Intel had just switched to a new design which clocked much lower than NetBurst), not for things they could do but aren't.

I've heard it before.. I guess it's true, which kinda sucks, because I like having things on discs or tapes, lol.

CD players are obviously dead, and I guess that's due to increased storage capacities and bandwidth.

pilotError

Jun 9, 2008, 10:51 PM

Maybe they need the core services rewritten to support the DRM.

Snow Leopard?

Play4keeps

Jun 10, 2008, 12:21 AM

Maybe they need the core services rewritten to support the DRM.

Snow Leopard?

;)I think ya nailed it.

Mad Mac

Jun 10, 2008, 01:11 AM

If Steve says it's a dead technology, he's probably right. He's done/said things before that I've called him a moron for, and he's turned out to be right.

He's saying that because it's self serving. Apple would love for all movies to be downloaded via iTunes. Why would they support something that takes away from their bottom line? I'm sure they would love to remove optical drives from all their computers period.

1. Do downloaded movies have the resolution and audio bitrate of BluRay? No.
2. Do downloaded movies come with all of the extras, outtakes, director commentaries, etc.? No.

Those 2 reasons are enough for me to get BluRay rentals from Netflix/Blockbuster vs downloading movies.

Sure there are plenty of people that don't mind lower bitrates on their music (mp3's) and video (mpeg 4, etc.), but there's still plenty of people that want the BEST that's available. And BluRay is currently the best audio/video format available. The drives are available NOW (slot loading and tray). There are PC's available with BluRay NOW. There's no real reason for Apple not to have them as well. Lame.

FF_productions

Jun 10, 2008, 01:16 AM

Play4keeps

Jun 10, 2008, 02:47 AM

ray_uk

Jun 10, 2008, 04:33 AM

They probably dont sell blu ray based systems because they already sell the alternative on itunes. As for those who want to backup onto blu ray, nothing stopping them from just adding one in or plugging in a external.

tom.

Jun 10, 2008, 08:45 AM

When the machine is fully HDCP compliant, the BD burner will come. One thing I have learnt about Apple is that they don't release something that 'half-works', I think they're just waiting for the right time.

gazfocus

Jun 10, 2008, 08:58 AM

I agree with what's been said, that Apple are trying to guide people down the 'download from iTunes' path, and that's fair enough, but there are many reasons why people prefer physical media.

For me, it's as simple as, if I buy 100 HD movies and my Mac gets stolen, will the insurance cover them? no! If I buy 100 Blu-Ray Films from the shop and they get stolen, will the insurance cover them? yes!

Apple needs to realise that the industry isn't going to move away from physical media because it's worth far more in the real world than an MP3 or MPEG4 download.

zmttoxics

Jun 10, 2008, 12:24 PM

Excuse me, but yes, HD DVD drives are still manufactured. LG still has several models of Blu-ray/HD DVD combo drives. I have one of them.

He said NOTHING about HD DVD. HD means High Definition. Blu-ray is High Definition. HD movies can either be Blu-ray or HD DVD. Please do research.

HD-DVD really is dead though. LG is only making those drives for the people who got stuck with HD-DVD collections. Toshiba was the leading manufacturer for that stuff and they stopped making it all. Most major film companies have already officially ditched HD-DVD for blu-ray (including the porn industry).

In other words, ya they are being made, but not for long and with no new media. Good thing yours is a half and half one :D.

rpaloalto

Jun 10, 2008, 01:59 PM

Sooner or later, they MUST incorporate it. Especially for the pro market, soon most peeps are gonna have to author to blu-ray and with no support from Apple, well people may have to reach out to Windows to get the work done.

Like I said in my previous post. I just don't see apple accepting hdcp. You can author blue ray hd video with out hdcp. The hdcp is just their for the hollywood blue ray movies.

toke lahti

Jun 10, 2008, 04:15 PM

Like I said in my previous post. I just don't see apple accepting hdcp. You can author blue ray hd video with out hdcp. The hdcp is just their for the hollywood blue ray movies.
But you can't author BD with FinalCutStudio. And since Apple wants to ignore BD, you'll have to buy Premiere to author.
Next question is, should you buy just Adobe's CS and forget about FCS...

NT1440

Jun 10, 2008, 04:23 PM

Mad Mac

Jun 10, 2008, 04:52 PM

im gonna have to go and say that there really isnt enough of an interest or want for HD yet from the MASSES (read: not us tech geeks). Right now the majority of people love and are completely satisified with SD. When owning HD devices is the norm, it will be implemented into everything.

Where are you getting these statistics?

Fact is, Dell and a host of other manufacturers are putting BD drives in their computers. Blockbuster/Netflix/etc. are renting BD discs. PS3, in which sales are starting to really pick up, comes with a BD player. Walmart (which caters to the MASSES) sells BD and is backing BD. Every major network broadcasts in HD. Cable channels such as Golf, Food Network, MTV, etc. all have HD broadcasts. I would hardly call HD a fringe product.

So why is a supposed cutting edge company like Apple not implementing BD, at the very least, as a BTO option? Is it because they want you to believe that BD is not taking off or is it that they are cutting edge only when it's self serving?

SDAVE

Jun 10, 2008, 06:36 PM

I think Apple just wants BD to be 100% set before putting it in their products...they're probably working on DVD Studio Pro supporting BD.

That being said, BD is getting big. People also want to backup 25GB/50GB per disc.

Lord Zedd

Jun 10, 2008, 06:41 PM

I think Apple just wants BD to be 100% set before putting it in their products

Its been 100% set since Feb 17, 2008.

nick9191

Jun 10, 2008, 06:44 PM

no crap hd dvd and bluray are different things they dont even make hd dvd anymore
Here comes the clue train, last stop is you...

Anyway if we do see Blu Ray, I think it will be with 10.6, other than that probably not. Online downloads is the way forward, Blu Ray is just a stop-gap until the ISP's pull their thumbs out their asses and start improving their infrastructure, which will have to happen eventually however much they try and avoid it.

SDAVE

Jun 10, 2008, 08:07 PM

Its been 100% set since Feb 17, 2008.

That's not what I meant...I meant "more affordable" media etc. Right now the cheapest BD is 2x at $15 a pop. Not affordable.

I give it 6 months before Apple announces any products with BD. They want to put in BD burners I am guessing, not just readers. The cheapest BD burner/reader is $300 right now.

SDAVE

Jun 10, 2008, 08:09 PM

Online downloads is the way forward, Blu Ray is just a stop-gap until the ISP's pull their thumbs out their asses and start improving their infrastructure, which will have to happen eventually however much they try and avoid it.

You are incorrect. BD has 1080p high bitrate video + audio (PCM anyone?)....Also has extras, etc which are big sellers. There is no way iTunes movies can compete with BD. Not possible. All iTunes has is 720p Dolby Digital movies.

There is no way that Apple could cater end users to download 50GB worth of stuff and stream that.

slughead

Jun 10, 2008, 08:28 PM

Steve believes optical media to be dead. Thus, Apple will not invest in a dying technology.

That's retarded. Apple's BEST download quality is half that of a DVD movie, let alone an HD movie.

Not to mention languages, features, portability.

Blu Ray is so advanced, it makes apple's download service look like 'standard' youtube.

The reason Apple's not moving on blu ray is because the drives are too expensive and people aren't willing to pay extra for them... yet

Remember how long it took them to adopt DVD tech back in the days of the G3?? Lord, it cost $500 more to get a DVD player (and a video card that supported it) in a standard G3 POWERMAC. The first iMacs didn't even have DVD players, back in 1998: when DVDs first outsold VHS's!

Abandoning the Optical format? I call BS. It's just Apple not wanting to put things into their computers they can't sell. One day, everybody else will have BluRay, then Apple will follow.

Edit: I'd like to also echo SDAVE:

Apple can't afford to serve even FOUR gigabyte movie, let alone anything near a 50GB bluRay. Even if ISPs "pull their thumbs out of their asses", nothing near that kind of BW will exist for home users until 2011/12. The problem is the last mile--from the ISPs to your home. That's the biggest expense.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/32/The_last_mile_hierarchy.svg/300px-The_last_mile_hierarchy.svg.png

Tallest Skil

Jun 10, 2008, 09:03 PM

That's retarded. Apple's BEST download quality is half that of a DVD movie, let alone an HD movie.

Funny, then, the HD rentals on iTunes.

kabunaru

Jun 10, 2008, 09:04 PM

NT1440

Jun 10, 2008, 09:07 PM

Where are you getting these statistics?

Fact is, Dell and a host of other manufacturers are putting BD drives in their computers. Blockbuster/Netflix/etc. are renting BD discs. PS3, in which sales are starting to really pick up, comes with a BD player. Walmart (which caters to the MASSES) sells BD and is backing BD. Every major network broadcasts in HD. Cable channels such as Golf, Food Network, MTV, etc. all have HD broadcasts. I would hardly call HD a fringe product.

So why is a supposed cutting edge company like Apple not implementing BD, at the very least, as a BTO option? Is it because they want you to believe that BD is not taking off or is it that they are cutting edge only when it's self serving?
and thats why flocks and flocks of people have gone out and switched to HDTV's.....:rolleyes:

as it stands HDTV owners are the clear minority

MacHappytjg

Jun 10, 2008, 09:10 PM

Apple's solution is the iTunes Movie Store with HD downloads. Thus, no need for optical media.

what if i bought blurays for my bluray player (ps3) and would like to watch them on my computer

Tallest Skil

Jun 10, 2008, 09:13 PM

what if i bought blurays for my bluray player (ps3) and would like to watch them on my computer

Well, sure... but why did you buy the standalone Blu-ray player, then?

Martin C

Jun 10, 2008, 09:19 PM

Well, sure... but why did you buy the standalone Blu-ray player, then?
For times that he is at home?

Mad Mac

Jun 10, 2008, 09:40 PM

and thats why flocks and flocks of people have gone out and switched to HDTV's.....:rolleyes:

as it stands HDTV owners are the clear minority

Again, where are your stats to support your opinion?

Maybe you should go tell Best Buy, Circuit City, Costco, etc. that they are all morons for stocking HD peripheral because nobody is going to buy them. :rolleyes:

BTW, here's a recent article that says 25% of US households have at least one HDTV and that the trend is moving upwards: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m4PRN/is_2008_April_24/ai_n25356289

Hardly what I would call a clear minority. Hell, those are higher numbers than people who use Macs. You want to know what's a fringe product? Try Apple TV for starters.

NT1440

Jun 10, 2008, 09:46 PM

Again, where are your stats to support your opinion?

Maybe you should go tell Best Buy, Circuit City, Costco, etc. that they are all morons for stocking HD peripheral because nobody is going to buy them. :rolleyes:

BTW, here's a recent article that says 25% of US households have at least one HDTV and that the trend is moving upwards: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m4PRN/is_2008_April_24/ai_n25356289

Hardly what I would call a clear minority. Hell, those are higher numbers than people who use Macs. You want to know what's a fringe product? Try Apple TV for starters.

i said the majority of people havnt adopted yet. Not that HD isnt going to ever take off or anything like that.

and 25%........how is that not a minority? I never called HD a fringe product, its merely not the big dog right now. Apple will wait until there is a much bigger demand to do anything with it.

slughead

Jun 10, 2008, 10:04 PM

Funny, then, the HD rentals on iTunes.

Oh, you're right. Apple's up to 5mbps. 720p, good picture, but apparently sacrifices surround sound and bitrate on most flicks.

Still though, 5mbit/s. Now it's almost DVD quality bitrate! Congrats, welcome to a 1998 video store.

here, read this: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=511
here's another: http://www.parislemon.com/2008/01/faux-hd-its-about-bit-rate-too-stupid.html

I'll stick to DVD rentals. I love my sound system, it's was upper mid-range 10 years ago and I can still hear how crappy itunes downloads are compared to optical media!

slughead

Jun 10, 2008, 10:06 PM

cherry su

Jun 10, 2008, 10:07 PM

Apple thinks optical media should die :cool:

hence the movie rentals, time machine backups, music purchases, dvd-driveless macbook air, …

slughead

Jun 10, 2008, 10:29 PM

Apple thinks optical media should die :cool:

They can think all they want. Optical is going to be around for a long, long time. Except, maybe, among the rich who can afford Apple's digital lifestyle, with all the little charges nipping at your credit card. Oh, and only 2/3 of Americans have any high speed internet access, let alone the kind necessary to download Apple's HD vids.

m1stake

Jun 10, 2008, 10:35 PM

Apple thinks optical media should die :cool:

hence the movie rentals

iTunes is there to sell iPods, not "kill" optical media.

time machine backups

500GB and 1TB optical disks don't exist, so they don't really have a choice.

music purchases

Again, iTunes is meant to sell iPods.

dvd-driveless macbook air

The external drive is meant to slim it down. You don't need the drive that much.

At least you were close. :rolleyes:

NT1440

Jun 10, 2008, 10:35 PM

They can think all they want. Optical is going to be around for a long, long time. Except, maybe, among the rich who can afford Apple's digital lifestyle, with all the little charges nipping at your credit card. Oh, and only 2/3 of Americans have any high speed internet access, let alone the kind necessary to download Apple's HD vids.

and how many americans have ANY HD systems? (apparantly 25%)

the market is going to be HUGE, but only after it actually takes off, right now its not that great

OzExige

Jun 10, 2008, 10:38 PM

No way man, DVD's are history, EVERYONE will use downloads by the end of the year. :)

Tallest Skil

Jun 10, 2008, 10:45 PM

500GB and 1TB optical disks don't exist, so they don't really have a choice.

If you can wait a year or two, however, you will. These guys (http://www.mempile.com/) look promising. Unless, of course, Apple's come up with a better alternative.

NT1440

Jun 10, 2008, 10:49 PM

If you can wait a year or two, however, you will. These guys (http://www.mempile.com/) look promising. Unless, of course, Apple's come up with a better alternative.

the problem with optical media is that it has to hit a wall at some point. (all media forms do)

Tallest Skil

Jun 10, 2008, 10:54 PM

the problem with optical media is that it has to hit a wall at some point. (all media forms do)

Eh. Protein-coated disks claim 300TB. Not a typo. Personally, I don't think that they can go much higher than that, but if that's any indication, we're nowhere near the limit.

NT1440

Jun 10, 2008, 10:57 PM

Eh. Protein-coated disks claim 300TB. Not a typo. Personally, I don't think that they can go much higher than that, but if that's any indication, we're nowhere near the limit.

the thing that worries me about optical media is that lots of time they cram more on just by increasing RPM's. Im gonna fear for my life when we start hitting speeds like 15,000+

what does that link say about the speeds for the two photon thingy?