New Canon 1000D DSLR launched

[Grimace]

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/06/canon-eos-rebel-xs-front.jpg

10.1 MP CMOS
Digic III
7-point AF
3 FPS
2.5″ LCD
Live View
Similar Menus to the 450D (but more simplified)
Weight 540grams

No word yet on official pricing, but it is supposed to be the lowest of the Canon DSLR range, aimed at those moving up from P&S cameras.

[Westside guy]

I was wondering how long they were going to let Nikon continue unchallenged in the low-end dSLR market... after all, that does appear to be where the money is.

Good news for all of us, really.

[66217]

It seems to be a nice camera, but, won't it be way too close with the 450D?:confused:

I mean, as I saw it, the D60 and the 450D were direct competitors, weren't they?

Either they give this out at a bargain price or I don't see how this camera can exist with the 450D.

[robbieduncan]

DPReview say:


• Body only: €549
• Kit: €599 (with 18-55 mm lens)
• Kit: €649 (with 18-55 mm IS lens)

[nutmac]

It seems to be a nice camera, but, won't it be way too close with the 450D?:confused:

I mean, as I saw it, the D60 and the 450D were direct competitors, weren't they?

Either they give this out at a bargain price or I don't see how this camera can exist with the 450D.
Key differences:

1000D retails for $200 less
No rubberized grip on 1000D
10.1 megapixels image sensor (instead of 12.2 megapixel)
7-point autofocus (instead of 9-point)
No spot metering on 1000D
Slower continuous speed (3.0 vs 3.5 fps JPEG, 1.5 vs. 3.5 RAW)
Smaller viewfinder on 1000D
2.5" LCD (instead 3.0" LCD... same resolution, however)

For many, larger viewfinder, spot metering, faster continuous speed, and improved grip would be worth $200 difference.

[Col127]

dpreview also posted a preview of the camera since they got a production model of it. see here: http://www.dpreview.com/previews/Canon_1000D/

[miloblithe]

Seems like a new strategy that instead of creating a new model and demoting the existing model to the low-end (producing both the 350D and 400D at the same time then 400D and 450D...), they'll actually have 2 different lines. Seems like a better strategy, as the out-dated models have tended to look a bit long in the tooth (say, comparing the 350D to the Nikon D40 or D40x). Nikon still has more offerings, it looks like, with the D40, D60, and D80 in the lower end, compared to 1000D and 450D for Canon.

[Hmac]

I was wondering how long they were going to let Nikon continue unchallenged in the low-end dSLR market... after all, that does appear to be where the money is.

Good news for all of us, really.

Nikon is likely getting out of the low-end market - D40/D40x going away. D60 will be Nikon's bottom end, Nikon appears to have said that they will be focusing on the D200/D300 and up. If Thom Hogan is correct, the 1000D and D60 will be going head to head. Nikon apparently would rather work the upper end. I suspect Canon will have the D40 niche all to itself.

Paraphrasing Thom Hogan (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=27984997)

[Westside guy]

Nikon is likely getting out of the low-end market - D40/D40x going away. D60 will be Nikon's bottom end, Nikon appears to have said that they will be focusing on the D200/D300 and up.

Paraphrasing Thom Hogan (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=27984997)

I am pretty sure that was specifically talking about the upcoming fiscal year only - they're not introducing another low end camera in the coming year.

Since the majority of their sales, by far, have been of their low-end cameras, it would be really dumb to cut that end of the line. There just isn't the market for higher-end cameras that there is for low-end cameras (this is true for all manufacturers, not just Nikon).

[66217]

Nikon is likely getting out of the low-end market - D40/D40x going away. D60 will be Nikon's bottom end, Nikon appears to have said that they will be focusing on the D200/D300 and up. If Thom Hogan is correct, the 1000D and D60 will be going head to head. Nikon apparently would rather work the upper end. I suspect Canon will have the D40 niche all to itself.

Paraphrasing Thom Hogan (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=27984997)

The D60 is the replacement of the D40/D40x. If you compare them they are almost the same. The D40/D40x are cheaper because they are older.

I see the D60 as a competitor of the 450D, and now the 1000D also. I guess the new D80 (D90?:confused:) would be the competitor of the 40D.

[Col127]

Nikon is likely getting out of the low-end market - D40/D40x going away. D60 will be Nikon's bottom end, Nikon appears to have said that they will be focusing on the D200/D300 and up. If Thom Hogan is correct, the 1000D and D60 will be going head to head. Nikon apparently would rather work the upper end. I suspect Canon will have the D40 niche all to itself.

Paraphrasing Thom Hogan (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=27984997)

i highly doubt nikon would leave the low-end market. it's probably the most popular one nowadays with all the people coming from P&S with prices so low.

[Everythingisnt]

Yes, although the Nikon D300 it one of Nikons top selling DSLR's.. According to thom hogan Nikon makes over 70,000 of them each week.

I could see Nikon trying to expand their pro and prosumer line, but you're right, I don't see them dropping the D40.. it's a fantastic camera.

[nburwell]

It seems to be a nice camera, but, won't it be way too close with the 450D?:confused:


Similar, yes, but the big difference is that Canon is incorporating the new Digi III processor that the XTi did not have. Live view is another big thing for most people (not myself), especially those who are coming from a p&s camera that use the LCD screen to frame up their photo.

Not a fan of them using SD cards, but I guess that is going to be the norm moving forward.

The important thing is this camera is geared more for those soccer mom's and dad's who want to upgrade their "superzoom" or p&s camera to a DSLR.

[miloblithe]

The D60 is the replacement of the D40/D40x. If you compare them they are almost the same. The D40/D40x are cheaper because they are older.

I see the D60 as a competitor of the 450D, and now the 1000D also. I guess the new D80 (D90?:confused:) would be the competitor of the 40D.

Nikon and Canon seem to have staggered their lineups a little:

D40<1000D=D60<450D<D80(D90)<40D<D300

[Everythingisnt]

Nikon and Canon seem to have staggered their lineups a little:

D40<1000D=D60<450D<D80(D90)<40D<D300

<5D<1DmkIII<D3<1Ds MkIII..


Soon to change with the D3h and D3x... :D:D:D:D:D

[Hmac]

<5D<1DmkIII<D3<1Ds MkIII..


Soon to change with the D3h and D3x... :D:D:D:D:D

And D10>5D Mk II.

As to the D3H, I suspect that's the D3. Maybe they'll rename it, but my guess is that they'll just add the D3X at the top and leave the D3 alone. Nikon's upper end line up likely to be D300, D10 (full frame variant of D300), D3, D3X.

[Grimace]

And D10>5D Mk II.
Nikon's upper end line up likely to be D300, D10 (full frame variant of D300), D3, D3X.

I really don't think we will see a full frame camera from Nikon like a D10. The way that Canon's lineup is positioned, a 5D makes sense. Nikon fits in alternating grooves and the D80, D300, D3, (D3X) doesn't leave a very good spot for a full frame variant. Would it be nice? Sure. I just don't think it is likely given the D300 price point.

[Phrasikleia]

I'm glad I bought my 450D when I did, otherwise I'd have to do some creative rationalizing to justify the extra $200. ;)

[Grimace]

D80 $750
D300 $1700
D3 $5000 Hi-Speed
[D3X] $7000? Hi-Res

40D $950
5D $1900
1D $4000 Hi-speed
1Ds $8000 Hi-res

D80 $750
40D $950
D300 $1700
5D $1900
D10 $2000 FF? Methinks it is too close to the D300 price point
1D $4000 Hi-speed
D3 $5000 Hi-Speed
[D3X] $7000? Hi-Res
1Ds $8000 Hi-res

All that said, if the "new" 5D is closer to $3000, a FF D10 would have some wiggle room to differentiate itself from the D300 and D3.

[Abstract]

For many, larger viewfinder, spot metering, faster continuous speed, and improved grip would be worth $200 difference.

No way.

The only thing there worth paying for is the spot metering.

You won't be able to tell a difference between 3.5 fps (450D) and 3.0 fps (1000D and 400D), and the viewfinder difference is rather small (0.81x magnification for the 1000D versus 0.87x mag for 450D). The difference is a small viewfinder and a smaller viewfinder. You may see a difference when looking through the viewfinder, but that difference will be very small. $200 is not worth either of these things, and the 1000D looks to be a far better deal.

The one thing the 1000D can't live up to is a spot meter. A shooter with experience, yet doesn't have the money to spend on a 40D may opt for a 450D simply because he has always shot with the spot meter. I think $200 may be worth it for that alone. If you don't know what a spot meter is, save yourself $200 and get the 1000D. It sounds fantastic for the price. :)

[Everythingisnt]

D80 $750
D300 $1700
D3 $5000 Hi-Speed
[D3X] $7000? Hi-Res

40D $950
5D $1900
1D $4000 Hi-speed
1Ds $8000 Hi-res

D80 $750
40D $950
D300 $1700
5D $1900
D10 $2000 FF? Methinks it is too close to the D300 price point
1D $4000 Hi-speed
D3 $5000 Hi-Speed
[D3X] $7000? Hi-Res
1Ds $8000 Hi-res

All that said, if the "new" 5D is closer to $3000, a FF D10 would have some wiggle room to differentiate itself from the D300 and D3.

True.. Probably the D10 will arrive as a replacement to the D300 under the name of 'D400'..

[Grimace]

But, to stir the pot, the photoshop jobs of the D10 (and 5D mkII) are always around. The proportions look waaaaay off, but it's always fun to spread this kind of fodder! :D

http://images.quickblogcast.com/3/2/2/2/2/130718-122223/Nikon_D10.jpg

[Everythingisnt]

That looks like the bastard son of a D80 and D3.. :p

[Westside guy]

D10 $2000 FF? Methinks it is too close to the D300 price point

You can't base the price on the Canon 5D. Nikon will probably give it some additional features, but charge ~ $3000. That's the price point Thom Hogan is expecting, anyway.

He also is (or was, originally) not expecting that camera until sometime in 2009. I realize he's waffled a bit in some of his dpreview forum posts though.

[atari1356]

For many, larger viewfinder, spot metering, faster continuous speed, and improved grip would be worth $200 difference.

No way.

The only thing there worth paying for is the spot metering.

*snip*

If you don't know what a spot meter is, save yourself $200 and get the 1000D. It sounds fantastic for the price. :)

The biggest downside of the new 1000D to me is the focusing system. It sounds basically like what was used in the 300D and 350D - which is okay, but far from great. It's particularly bad in low light situations, where Canon's higher end models (even the 450D) fare much better. (less focus hunting, and more precise focusing for more "keeper" shots).

I'd pay the extra $200 (or whatever the difference will actually be) for the 450D just based on that alone.

Right now I have the 350D, and can't wait to upgrade to a better focusing system... hopefully a 5D MK II sometime next year if I can afford it.

[Abstract]

The biggest downside of the new 1000D to me is the focusing system. It sounds basically like what was used in the 300D and 350D - which is okay, but far from great.

I think most of that has to do with the number of cross-type AF points there are. I think the 400D, 450D, and (probably) the 1000D likely have a single cross-type AF point at the centre, while the rest aren't. Anyway, I don't know whether a 450D will have significantly better focusing than a 1000D. If you want good focusing, you'd have to get a 40D, I think.

[Grimace]

You can't base the price on the Canon 5D. Nikon will probably give it some additional features, but charge ~ $3000. That's the price point Thom Hogan is expecting, anyway.


As I mentioned in that same post, "All that said, if the "new" 5D is closer to $3000, a FF D10 would have some wiggle room to differentiate itself from the D300 and D3."

I still don't see it happening, but Nikon is going for Canon's jugular right now!

[ChrisA]

No way.

The only thing there worth paying for is the spot metering.

With film I'd agree. I even own a hand held Pentax spot meter. But with digital I get the same results by looking at the histogram display. I'd use the spot meter to look at the range of values in a scene and to choose an exposure that capured the parts of the scene I want. But now the histogram serves that purpose. I take a test exposure and then adjust it based on the graphic display

[Hmac]

I really don't think we will see a full frame camera from Nikon like a D10. The way that Canon's lineup is positioned, a 5D makes sense. Nikon fits in alternating grooves and the D80, D300, D3, (D3X) doesn't leave a very good spot for a full frame variant. Would it be nice? Sure. I just don't think it is likely given the D300 price point.
Time will tell. For the most part, among the faithful over at DPR (including Thom Hogan) and most of the other Nikon sites, a full-frame camera on a D300-type body (Thom is guessing it will be called D10), IOW a 5D competitor, is a foregone conclusion. I'm inclined to agree that it's just a matter of time, and my guess would be some time shortly after the 5D MkII is announced.

[66217]

As I mentioned in that same post, "All that said, if the "new" 5D is closer to $3000, a FF D10 would have some wiggle room to differentiate itself from the D300 and D3."

I still don't see it happening, but Nikon is going for Canon's jugular right now!

My thinking of what Nikon is going to do is the following (in order):

1. Update the D80. Something tells me the D90(?) would be a very nice update.
2. Update or make an improved D3 and obviously keep the present D3.
3. Keep the D300 as it is for now, and release a new FF camera (D10?).
4. Update the D60 and make it a little bit better (considering the D80 replacement would still be much better).
5. Introduce a new low-end dSLR to meet the requirements of the ocasional shooter that has no interest at the moment of buying expensive equipment. Could be similar to the 1000D or even cheaper, I think the most probable being the latter.

This would leave Nikon with a good product line:
New Lower-End Camera ($400) < D60 Replacement ($800) < D90 ($1300-1400) < D300 ($1800) < D10 ($2500-3000) < D3 ($5000) < D3x ($8000).

The D3x I really put it there for what I have read in other posts. But really have no idea what extra things it would have to make it soo expensive. Any ideas?

Other question: What is Nikon going to do with new camera names? The D60 replacement can't be D70, would they change the D to F? Or what is what they normally do?

[Westside guy]

Other question: What is Nikon going to do with new camera names? The D60 replacement can't be D70, would they change the D to F? Or what is what they normally do?

Can't be F - that's how they denote their film cameras. The numbering is very similar (F100, F5, F6...).

[Grimace]

This would leave Nikon with a good product line:
New Lower-End Camera ($400) < D60 Replacement ($800) < D90 ($1300-1400) < D300 ($1800) < D10 ($2500-3000) < D3 ($5000) < D3x ($8000).

The D3x I really put it there for what I have read in other posts. But really have no idea what extra things it would have to make it soo expensive. Any ideas?

Other question: What is Nikon going to do with new camera names? The D60 replacement can't be D70, would they change the D to F? Or what is what they normally do?
A 25MP sensor would make it that expensive.

D stands for digital so it will likely stay in all of the Canon and Nikon branding.

A lot of the cameras you mention are pretty new, by DSLR standards. The update cycles are less frequent the higher up the food chain you go.

[66217]

Can't be F - that's how they denote their film cameras. The numbering is very similar (F100, F5, F6...).

Yep, I forgot about that.:o

A 25MP sensor would make it that expensive.

D stands for digital so it will likely stay in all of the Canon and Nikon branding.

A lot of the cameras you mention are pretty new, by DSLR standards. The update cycles are less frequent the higher up the food chain you go.

Believe it or not I haven't thought about what the D meant on the name of the cameras.:o But it still bugs me how they are going to keep the updates coming. The names are bound to become a real mess.

I agree with you, it would take many years to make the changes. But the D80 is in time to be updated. I guess many D40/D40x users, when upgrading, would have a difficult time right now. You have the D300, which is expensive, and the D80 which doesn't offers much over the D40 to justify an upgrade.

If they come out with a nice D90, I would seriously consider upgrading from my D40x faster. I sometimes see the the D300 as way too much for me and find it hard to justify spending so much money on it.

[Hmac]

Yep, I forgot about that.:o



Believe it or not I haven't thought about what the D meant on the name of the cameras.:o But it still bugs me how they are going to keep the updates coming. The names are bound to become a real mess.

I agree with you, it would take many years to make the changes. But the D80 is in time to be updated. I guess many D40/D40x users, when upgrading, would have a difficult time right now. You have the D300, which is expensive, and the D80 which doesn't offers much over the D40 to justify an upgrade.

If they come out with a nice D90, I would seriously consider upgrading from my D40x faster. I sometimes see the the D300 as way too much for me and find it hard to justify spending so much money on it.My guess would be that the D60 will become the new D40X (entry level). The D80 will be replaced by the D90. Then D300, then D10 (full frame), then D3 basically unchanged, then D3X which will be the 24 mp full-frame variant of the D3. I don't know about pricing, but I would think that the D3X will be priced based on the 1Ds MkIII. The A900 might put some downward pressure on that camera, as has the D3, so 1Ds mkIII and D3X somewhere in the $6000-$7000 range.

[AlaskaMoose]

Rumors to keep you guessing? :D
More Canon cameras to be released (several between the 40D and the next models):
http://www.canonrumors.com/comments.php?y=08&m=06&entry=entry080613-150853

[seenew]

where the heck is the new 5D? (not that I care since I just got the current one :()

[Grimace]

Rumors to keep you guessing? :D
More Canon cameras to be released (several between the 40D and the next models):
http://www.canonrumors.com/comments.php?y=08&m=06&entry=entry080613-150853

That rumor is garbage for many reasons. In case they weren't paying attention, Canon's models get better the closer the model number gets to 1.

1D, 5D, 40D, 450D, etc.

A 6D better than 3D? It throws the whole thing off. And, you aren't going to see a 20MP $3000 camera body right now when the 1Ds Mark III is 21MP for $8000.

[AlaskaMoose]

where the heck is the new 5D? (not that I care since I just got the current one :()

Congratulations on your new 5D. I was thinking of buying a 5D, but settled for the 40D because of the lenses I already have made it a better deal for me. I would have had to buy lenses to match the FF of the 5D.

[AlaskaMoose]

That rumor is garbage for many reasons. In case they weren't paying attention, Canon's models get better the closer the model number gets to 1.

1D, 5D, 40D, 450D, etc.

A 6D better than 3D? It throws the whole thing off. And, you aren't going to see a 20MP $3000 camera body right now when the 1Ds Mark III is 21MP for $8000.

Rumors are rumors :) Lets wait a little and see what happens.