BlackBerry users's iPhone-hating obsession = inferiority complex? [Archive]

CrazEtooN

Jun 10, 2008, 06:46 PM

We all know that BB users went bonkers last year, first when the iPhone was announced and then when it come out in June. There were 1000s of posts trashing the iPhone in BB forums at the time.

In May RIM announced the BlackBerry Bold, and although I am currently an iPhone user I'm interested in the device. So, to get more information on the Bold I started to go to BB forums again (I used BlackBerrys before I switched to the iPhone).

So over the last month I regularly visited and read posts on a couple of the big BB forums (e.g., pinstack.com). I gotta say, their obsession with the iPhone is crazy. In anticipation of the new iPhone and now that it was announced there are dozens of threads and 100s of posts trashing the iPhone for any number of (often unsubstantiated) reasons. Seems to me that the users have to affirm each other day after day that the iPhone is trash and BlackBerrys are superior devices.

I don't understand why they are obsessed with the iPhone, but the constant whining about and trashing it makes me think they are jealous, have an inferiority complex, or they are simply sore losers.

I too am a BB user, and I know your name from some of the BB fan forums. I am like a one man crusade for mobile device acceptance over at CrackBerry.com... I just get so tired of BlackBerry users making completely false statements about the iPhone. All I try to make them understand is that they can be happy with their BlackBerry and they can hate the iPhone all the want, but they don't need to make false claims about it. I don't know why it is so hard to say you don't like something and drop a few REAL reasons and move on...

I believe the reason they are so uptight about it is actually two part, but both parts stem from the same place, fear.

First is just outright fear of BlackBerry being pushed aside by Apple.

Second is fear of new things. Some of them have it so ingrained in their minds that they can't use, or like, anything outside of their BlackBerry they don't know how to react to anything else.

The ultimate result of these fears is bashing, name calling, claiming it is a "child's toy" (this one is their favorite), etc.

The thing I find funniest of all is how they claim they only bash the iPhone because iPhone users regularly bash BlackBerry. I haven't seen 1/10th the BlackBerry hate on the iPhone forums I frequent when compared to the iPhone hate I see on my regular BlackBerry forums...

gusapple

Jun 10, 2008, 06:55 PM

I am a die-hard Apple fan, but I don't have a problem with people saying the Blackberry is better. (However, I have a problem with people saying that the Voyager is a great smartphone(it doesn't look right and it plays too much into being a consumer based product and not a business product)) Blackberry was the best mobile solution, and for some that is still true.

By creating a mobile platform on a cell phone, they paved the way for the idea of new operating systems being integrated into phones. (I think) They created a market for the iPhone. Also, they set the bar high.

I know that people are jealous, but I get what you guys are saying.

phuong

Jun 10, 2008, 07:05 PM

...but the constant whining about and trashing it makes me think they are jealous, have an inferiority complex, or they are simply sore losers.

i heard Mac users talk trash about Windows & PCs a lot, like Windows is inferior and yada yada. does that also mean Mac users have an inferiority complex, or are sore losers?

i also watched many Pepsi commercials where they try to show that Coca Cola is inferior. and same goes for Fedex vs. UPS, and many other things. does that also mean these guys have an inferiority complex, or are sore losers?

when i have lower grade than my classmate, i do talk trash about her, like how i have to work and dont have as much time to study as she does. does that also mean i have an inferiority complex, or is a sore loser?

my point is, you cannot make people do their things the way you want them to. they pick their BB because it suits them best, and you pick your iP because it suits you. end of story. why do you want them to pick iP when they dont want to?

The thing I find funniest of all is how they claim they only bash the iPhone because iPhone users regularly bash BlackBerry. I haven't seen 1/10th the BlackBerry hate on the iPhone forums I frequent when compared to the iPhone hate I see on my regular BlackBerry forums...
.

you are starting one.

ghettochild

Jun 10, 2008, 07:23 PM

i heard Mac users talk trash about Windows & PCs a lot, like Windows is inferior and yada yada. does that also mean Mac users have an inferiority complex, or are sore losers?

i also watched many Pepsi commercials where they try to show that Coca Cola is inferior. and same goes for Fedex vs. UPS, and many other things. does that also mean these guys have an inferiority complex, or are sore losers?

when i have lower grade than my classmate, i do talk trash about her, like how i have to work and dont have as much time to study as she does. does that also mean i have an inferiority complex, or is a sore loser?

my point is, you cannot make people do their things the way you want them to. they pick their BB because it suits them best, and you pick your iP because it suits you. end of story. why do you want them to pick iP when they dont want to?

you are starting one.

You missed my point, misconstrued my post, and even misquoted me.

I didn't say that the iPhone suits me best. I like the iPhone, I also liked the BB 8700g and Pearl that I owned before I switched. I also said that I'm interested in the new BB Bold.

My point is that I don't understand their obsession with the iPhone. Look at the forums, many if not most of the new posts/threads are iPhone related- usually trashing the device. Why not just leave it alone and look forward to the upcoming RIM devices?

t0mat0

Jun 10, 2008, 07:23 PM

Gotta quote one comment I saw about this, from here (http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,25642,23690172-5016092,00.html)

Oh just thought I'd share this, it was written on Cnet and I think it pretty much sums up the iPhone.. "Fans of Apple's iPhone are suffering from the worst case of Stockholm Syndrome the tech world has ever seen. If Nokia or Sony Ericsson dared to hood-wink us by slapping an AU$800 price tag on a 2G phone, with a 2-megapixel camera and no MMS, they'd be run out of town by a pitchfork-wielding mob." Nuff said...

People do get personal favorites, and an investment in a product sometimes.

alex2016g

Jun 10, 2008, 07:24 PM

i heard Mac users talk trash about Windows & PCs a lot, like Windows is inferior and yada yada. does that also mean Mac users have an inferiority complex, or are sore losers?

we don't hate them, we petty them, they are missing out on sooooooo much.(:apple:)

phuong

Jun 11, 2008, 02:49 AM

we don't hate them, we petty them, they are missing out on sooooooo much.(:apple:)

they are saying the same thing about you. what's your point?

edesignuk

Jun 11, 2008, 02:52 AM

Oh the irony.

Apple users are of course so well known for being open minded to competing products :rolleyes: :p

queshy

Jun 11, 2008, 02:59 AM

I've been on an iPod touch the past few months and have gotten to love the browser. I used a BB the other day...o boy...the browser was terrible. The little ball thingy just doesn't work. The screen is tiny. The pages loaded very slow, too (no wifi).

Radio Monk33

Jun 11, 2008, 03:00 AM

Oh the irony.

Apple users are of course so well known for being open minded to competing products :rolleyes: :p

+1. I mean really...speaking of company's known for blatant fanboyism and illogical dislike of alternative products..

wesk702

Jun 11, 2008, 02:22 PM

Lol, just got back from reading the blackberryforums.
They're really in a panic, all are flocking to the no cut and paste argument to state that it is an inferior phone.
What the hell is wrong with people?

Many even go on about touting that the iphone 3g doesn't even have exchange support and doesn't even sync calendars. LOL
"You can't even search contacts!" hahaha

Can't wait to see or not see their posts after they've been educated on some of iphone 3gs new features.

I was gonna start trolling but couldn't stop myself from laughing.

gloss

Jun 11, 2008, 02:25 PM

Oh the irony.

Apple users are of course so well known for being open minded to competing products :rolleyes: :p

Seriously. We have no room to criticize.

s4play

Jun 11, 2008, 03:15 PM

Seriously some of you guys need to just relax and do something more important.....

I have both a BB curve and Iphone, both have it's plus / minus so I don't know why you guys get so worked up?

It's not people who by a BB can't afford an iPhone or vice versa? why the hostility???

For one I hate how the iPhone battery sucks a$$ and how come I phone does not have it's own Messenger chat service? That is something I miss a lot on the BB!

r

NAG

Jun 11, 2008, 03:19 PM

Ah yes, the "everyone calm down, the iPhone sucks ass" comment. Maybe you should be more open to your own suggestion.

Oh, the iPhone has SMS and will be getting IM clients by September.

powderblue17

Jun 11, 2008, 03:20 PM

Did you people even read what the OP said?. Not that Apple users don't do the same thing to Windows users although most Mac users have actually used Windows so they speak from experience unlike the Blackberry users who bash the iPhone while never trying it. He said that they are obsessed with the iPhone and every topic is about the iPhone and bashing it. I don't see every topic on MacRumors centered around bashing Windows.

BongoBanger

Jun 11, 2008, 03:46 PM

Oh the irony.

Apple users are of course so well known for being open minded to competing products :rolleyes: :p

Instant win.

phuong

Jun 15, 2008, 03:52 AM

...and every topic is about the iPhone and bashing it. I don't see every topic on MacRumors centered around bashing Windows.

just out of curiosity i checked out this website pinstack.com and then it took me awhile to find those bashing topics, but i couldn't.
then i saw this small sub-forum for iphone burried at the end of the page. ohhh now i understand the words "every topic". it is the sub-forum about the iphone, so of course EVERY topic in it is about the iphone why am i not surprised. just look at the Windows sub-forum in this site and tell me if you don't see some topic like "stupid questions from Windows users" etc pops up once in a while.

friekunater

Jun 15, 2008, 04:43 AM

BongoBanger

Jun 15, 2008, 05:34 AM

lmao I love looking at the stupid bb users on crackberry.com

for their top 10 reasons why "iPhone is still no BlackBerry"

#7-no expandable memory

has anyone really ever used up all 16gbs of their iPhone???? who wants a microSD anyway???

I think it's more to do with hot swapping and using the cards for file transfer. As for 16Gb, some need more than that and I, for one, would definitely want microSD because it's just so handy to have.

davefbop

Jun 15, 2008, 05:50 AM

I just started researching a new phone to get (dont laugh but I still have my old Sanyo SCP-4900, phone/battery lasted about 5-6 years no problems lol).The "iphone vs BB war" reminds me of the PS3 vs Xbox360 flames on there websites....well maybe not THAT bad lol. But I guess that happens everywhere, back in the highschool days "Chevy vs Ford" was the hot topic.

marksman

Jun 15, 2008, 05:57 AM

There are two kinds of people in this world.

1. iPhone owners.
2. Future iPhone owners.

Seriously though, I would not categorize them as having an inferiority complex. Certainly some segment of the Blackberry community wore their device as a badge of honor. Much like people wore their cell phones on their sleeve to "show off" before everyone had one. They were different. They were special, they were hip, they were cool.

I would not say because of specifically the iPhone, but just because with time they no longer held/hold that place of prominence.

As to why they spend their time bashing their iPhone on a Blackberry forum, good question. Probably the same reasons you see the ocassional joker who shows up here spilling his spleen about how awesome their Nokia phone is and its 32 megapixel camera. They have nothing more productive to do with their time.

Some of us, choose to spend are time in pursuit of more productive and positive aspects of our lives and focus on things we enjoy. Other people like to wallow in the misery of things that bother them, annoy them or make them sad. I got to be honest, I don't understand the later, but the internet has proven that a good percentage of people really do enjoy chasing and existing in things they do not like then in things they do.

surferfromuk

Jun 15, 2008, 06:38 AM

I think RIM will lose another 25% of it's existing subscribers plus 40% of their potential new business over the next year.

That in itself is a problem for RIM but it's nothing compared to the problems that are coming next year and the year after that and the year after that...

The only reason RIM are going to pick up any new business this year is simply because it's customers just do not understand exactly how advanced the technology in the iPhone is. They get new business the way Microsoft does - inertia and ignorance.

BB users are spotlighting the 2MP camera as a way of distracting attention away from the 3D accelerated Core graphics hardware, the fact that it runs OS X, the fluid core animation based multi-touch user interface, 667mhz cpu, 16Gig storage, the app store, the coverflow ipod, the safari web browser - well I could go on couldn't I!!

So whilst Apple have sorted the price issues and the enterprise issues people will still desperately try to 'stay put' and keep their BB's. They may hold ground for another year but either next year or the year after the technology and ecosystem differences will grow SO VAST that they simply will not be able to remain competitive with Apple.

The other 'secret weapon' is that Apple have now made it possible to buy an iPhone this year, safe in the knowledge that for a small amount of money you will be able to upgrade to iPhone 3.0 next year - they have effectively erased ANY good reason not to get one now...

iPhone is a serious problem for a lot of companies - I think we are going to see wave after wave of '2MP camera' spotlighting as it's the single ONLY de-tractable piece of tech left in the iPhone...Shame Apple didn't upgrade it just to kill this crap...

Stratus Fear

Jun 15, 2008, 09:21 AM

I think we are going to see wave after wave of '2MP camera' spotlighting as it's the single ONLY de-tractable piece of tech left in the iPhone...Shame Apple didn't upgrade it just to kill this crap...

Even then, talking bad about 2MP in the iPhone is something born out of ignorance. Unless you get a better sensor in the camera, 3.2MP or 5MP isn't going to mean squat. All it's going to do is make it easier to see noise in the picture because you're getting more pixels through a small sensor and a plastic lens. Most of these camera phones don't actually need 3.2MP or 5MP sensors -- upgrading to bigger sensors with glass lenses @ 2MP would make a far bigger difference, but then you have the problem that these phones are really a bit too small for some bigger sensors. This is why I just shake my head at N95 users and the like sometimes -- yes, the pictures look better, but it's not because of the 5MP camera. It's because the sensor in their camera is better and they probably have a better lens. Cell phones need 5MP sensors as much as small point and shoot cameras need 8MP sensors -- the fact is that they don't. The sensor needs a bigger input resolution before you bump up the output resolution, and that requires physical space.

I had a K800i before my iPhone, and that phone had a 3.2MP camera. The pictures looked really good for a phone, but they probably would have looked just as good @ 2MP. All I could tell with the extra output pixel resolution was that the pictures didn't look as good as a friend's 3.2MP point and shoot camera.

Users of other manufacturers' cell phones can talk trash about the iPhone all they want. It doesn't mean that they actually know what they're talking about ;)

Santa Rosa

Jun 15, 2008, 09:25 AM

Oh the irony.

Apple users are of course so well known for being open minded to competing products :rolleyes: :p

Instant win.

Sorry but you are both wrong there, I'm well and truly an Apple user but have never ever liked the iPod and also refuse to use one as my main MP3 player. I know that I'm only one person but there must be others and it proves your logic wrong.

On a brighter and funnier note, I too decided to have a quick scoot round the Blackberry Forums. I have nothing against Blackberries but do prefer my iPhone and thats the way it just is. No arguments. But for the die hard Blackberry users, on their forums this must be difficult to swallow :):

120069

ClassicBean

Jun 15, 2008, 09:39 AM

peterdevries

Jun 15, 2008, 09:58 AM

Many even go on about touting that the iphone 3g doesn't even have exchange support and doesn't even sync calendars. LOL
"You can't even search contacts!" hahaha

Can't wait to see or not see their posts after they've been educated on some of iphone 3gs new features.

I was gonna start trolling but couldn't stop myself from laughing.

Somehow I can understand them touting. The iPhone is great: great user interface, great apps, but some apps are/were just missing functionality: such as searching contacts, copy paste, MMS. All functions that most entry level smartphones had. Just because it has an apple logo, doesn't mean we should close our eyes on obvious deficiencies.

ClassicBean

Jun 15, 2008, 10:02 AM

The iPhone is great: great user interface, great apps, but some apps are/were just missing functionality: such as searching contacts, copy paste, MMS.

Does anybody know if they solved the copy/paste deficiency?

surferfromuk

Jun 15, 2008, 10:20 AM

I've got a Blackberry 8830. It's a great device, but I really only use it for email. I've never surfed on the device, except occasionally clicking a link in an email.

Pending a decent data plan from Rogers here in Canada, I'll be leaving my Telus contract and swapping the Blackberry for an iPhone.

I think the Blackberry is an amazing device but I truly believe the iPhone is better - at least for my needs.

Blackberry fans constantly cite the lack of a tactile keyboard as reason why the iPhone is garbage. I own an iPod touch and I can honestly say that typing is a lot easier on the iPhone than on the Blackberry (I make far fewer mistakes and I can type much faster).

I actually take my iPod touch with me wherever I go and use it for emergency writing via the notepad when I don't have my laptop with me. As soon as the iPhone gets a real document editor, it'll be that much better.

Interesting to see you point of view. Your obviously quite rational!! :D

I expect there to be some interesting writing apps very quickly - I mean even that blog s/w in the keynote was pretty impressive in it's own way...

Funny thing is Rim have already started work on a touch screen BB and I would wager that in 5 years they'll not have a single hard keyboard device left in their range. Problem they have is that they are simply not going to be able to compete with OS X - no matter how hard they try.
I suppose the only thing they can do as a company without that kind of soft keyboard technology is to deride it..

Of course, I don't think any of us can truly imagine how incredible iPhone is going to be in 5 years time - especially when they get their own custom chipsets embedded from Semi PA next year. I really do wonder what that military grade tech is going to do for them.

It's going to be a very interesting few years in the mobile arena.

BongoBanger

Jun 15, 2008, 11:24 AM

I think RIM are safe for a few years yet because they're just so firmly entrenched and the iPhone will need to prove itself in the corporate market in terms of security and usability. I know, for example, that our IT department sees being dependent on iTunes to load it as a major problem. Let's also not forget that WinMo and Symbian devices are improving year on year too.

The other point is that speed of reaction in this industry is fast. Apple have stolen a march with an excellent UI but the major manufacturers - with their huge R&D budgets - are going to catch up quickly. A year ago Steve said the iPhone was 5 years ahead of the competition in terms of UI - I think it's more like two, maybe three.

I think Apple will grab a chunk of the market but I'm not sure they'll become dominant, especially outside the US.

jreed

Jun 15, 2008, 11:56 AM

Some people like buttons....Some people like all touch....Some people like front facing cameras....Some people dont....Some people are simple....Some people are not....Some people like Apple....Some people like Blackberry....Some people need 16gb....Some people need 1gb....Some people need GPS....Some people dont....Some people need instant messaging....Some people have unlimited text....Some People think they need front facing camera....Some people say FOR WHAT, "ITS A PHONE!"....Some people want LIVE TV....Some people say FOR WHAT, "ITS A PHONE!"....Some people want MMS....Some people hate when people send them a MMS....SOme people want a metal back....Some people just want a iPhone....Some people want more bluetooth features....Some people dont even know what the hell bluetooth is!!!!!!

Dont you understand that you people are Apple, Microsoft, Google, Blackberry,Rim, etc. biggest form of free advertisement. This is exactly what they want you to do. Device bashing doesnt do anything but make a product look good, if you can understand that.

sfoalex

Jun 15, 2008, 12:40 PM

It kind of reminds me of the old thinking of Main Frames vs. PCs. You had the big iron manufactures with all the big business clients whom were not paying any attention to the smaller, less visible personal computer. Who would have thought that a smaller computer, with less power, no business software, etc would some day rule the computer world?

I don't mean to say BlackBerry is the big iron, and the iPhone has no software. I'm actually comparing it to the reality that Apple is still considered "personal" and BlackBerry is synonymous with "enterprise".

I have worked for a great many large companies as a consultant many years ago. For 9 years I worked for Franklin Templeton, Bayer Pharmaceutical, McKesson Drug, Sumitomo Bank, Bank of America, Intel, the Bay Area Rapid Transit extension to the SFO airport, and on and on. Large banks still have Main Frames in operation in their basements, but contrast that to the thousands of PCs on their desktops. Who is making the real money here? The Main Frame guys or the PC manufactures? The company that maintains the Main Frame, or the company that sells all those PCs, and the software, services, and future sales of upgrades? I think we all know the answer. And I think it really defines that sometimes personal products that are easier to use often become what business users choose to use over products that were designed specifically for large enterprise.

Let's put this more into my own terms. I certified in Novell NetWare in 1995. This Network Operating System had a console that was basically useless. You could load and configure various aspects of NetWare on the server itself, but to manage the users, rights, and so on, you had to use an admin app that ran on a PC and connected to the server. So a NetWare admin was used to the concept of the Sevrer NOS, and an Admin Console. At least two machines were needed. And this un-friendly method meant no common person outside of professional training was ever going to dabble in NetWare.

Now, in 1995 Microsoft was trying like crazy to unseat Novell, which had 78% of the server market. When Windows NT was being taught at the education center I was learning, and actually teaching at, I thought long and hard about Windows NT. I worked at Vanstar, the largest Value Added Reseller at the time. I watched 400 new engineers get trained on NT in 3 months. That's about half the time it took to train a Novell Engineer. And the those trained in NT remembered how to use it. It was simple. In fact, any young kid who knew Windows pretty well would easily grasp Windows NT. It simply made more sense.

Novell quickly lost it's 78% marketshare to Microsoft. Whether you hate Windows or not, the reality of the situation was that it was easier to grasp than Novell. More people were interested in using it because they were already familiar with it. Microsoft had a small business server edition. It was easy to setup. Any small company could manage it. The days of $70,000 a year talent sitting in the back room were over.

RIM is a lot like this in my opinion. You have to setup the BlackBerry Enterprise Server to make sure of PUSH. While I have not myself installed one of these, I am told it is indeed a difficult to configure process. Not impossible, but the person managing this needs training. That means there is expense. I suppose one could argue that you need training to manage Exchange, Lotus Notes, or GroupWise anyway. And this is certainly true. I was a Lotus Notes / Domino admin and developer, and you really needed training for that system. Same is true for GroupWise. Exchange, well, I'd say it is the easiest one to pick up on, and in my opinion, this explains it's rapid adoption.

I hope the message I am conveying is that ease of use, and familiarity have a lot to do with the success of any product. If users can use it well, then they benefit well. If they genuinely enjoy the experience with the device then they benefit from it. I try to hammer one point into the heads of BlackBerry advocates. When so many users actually want the device, they request it of the company they work for. Some demand it. And IT workers often have a tendency to over estimate their value in the company. They are not really there to pick and choose how the user base works. They are there to simply make it happen. Put simply, that means that the company, its users, and its management ultimately tell IT what they want, and IT implements that desire. Not to throw big words around, but in my day we actually had terms for this. It was called a "current state analysis", the "desired state analysis", and the most important, the "gap analysis". As you have likely guessed, the "gap analysis" is the road map a consultant lives by. The very creation of this document is a job well paid for. And the act of implementation of this analysis is how all consultants make their money. What this means is simply this; the fact that 35% of the fortune 500 companies are interested in the iPhone means that there are a lot of guys like my former self that are planning ways to implement the product into the enterprise. There is buzz now. There is desire. Users are flooding their companies with requests. And this forces the company to ask if it is feasible. Do you think consultants want to sell? Yes, of course they do. Do they want you to stick with what they sold you yesterday, or would they rather sell you something you actually want today? Doesn't it make sense that they want to sell what wants to be bought?

You have a win-win situation here. Employees want it. Employees know how to use it. The software is easier to use by far. More powerful, more flexible, and even enjoyable. The management is easier. No NOC, no BES add on server. Just Exchange and you have what you need already ready to go.

Sum it up in my mind. You have a product that is easier to use. It's more powerful. It's easier to configure. The vast majority of your clients want it. Software developers are very excited about it. If the past is any indication of the future, isn't it obvious where the iPhone is going? I think it is.

Alex

megfilmworks

Jun 15, 2008, 01:50 PM

The other point is that speed of reaction in this industry is fast. Apple have stolen a march with an excellent UI but the major manufacturers - with their huge R&D budgets - are going to catch up quickly. A year ago Steve said the iPhone was 5 years ahead of the competition in terms of UI - I think it's more like two, maybe three.

Apple IS the big player. That's why RIM is in trouble. Apple has larger cash reserves, better R&D, better staff. RIM may control the IT market, but Apple is a much larger player and has wads of cash to throw at anything. The others will chase Apple, copy Apple, but it will be very hard for them to keep pace or pass Apple's R+D.
Market cap: 150 billion vs 74 billion.
Cash reserves: 15 billion vs 1 billion.

BongoBanger

Jun 15, 2008, 05:06 PM

Apple IS the big player. That's why RIM is in trouble. Apple has larger cash reserves, better R&D, better staff. RIM may control the IT market, but Apple is a much larger player and has wads of cash to throw at anything. The others will chase Apple, copy Apple, but it will be very hard for them to keep pace or pass Apple's R+D.
Market cap: 150 billion vs 74 billion.
Cash reserves: 15 billion vs 1 billion.

Apple's market cap is way, way overvalued - just look at their PE ratio. In addition their cash reserves will help but that's not the same as being entrenched.

sfoalex

Jun 15, 2008, 05:33 PM

Apple's market cap is way, way overvalued - just look at their PE ratio. In addition their cash reserves will help but that's not the same as being entrenched.

Apple's P/E is 35. RIM's is is very close to 59!! And Apple has 20 billion is cash and short term. RIM has less that 3 billion.

A very good P/E is 18 - 25. Apple's is a little high, but considering the conversation is Apple vs. RIM, it's not bad at all. And keep in mind that Apple's stock has been a very solid performer since the company started. Apple has a lot of good will.

Alex

BongoBanger

Jun 15, 2008, 05:38 PM

Apple's P/E is 35. RIM's is is very close to 59!! And Apple has 20 billion is cash and short term. RIM has less that 3 billion.

Good grief! I had no idea RIM were that overinflated. That PE is crazy!

A very good P/E is 18 - 25. Apple's is a little high, but considering the conversation is Apple vs. RIM, it's not bad at all. And keep in mind that Apple's stock has been a very solid performer since the company started. Apple has a lot of good will.

Alex

It has but it's still a bit overinflated and dependent on high growth levels which may or may not be sustainable.

costabunny

Jun 15, 2008, 05:50 PM

I have a Blackberry (and this is the second different one) and I will say this

Blackberrys SUCK

I hate it soooo much I could cry, (and sometimes have when it refuses to do simple tasks easily)....

I cant wait to get back to work and show our Telecoms guy the keynote - I hope to god he gets the message that this has all the features we have been looking for in an enterprise level mobile support platform. The Blackberry just doesnt cut the mustard!

(not a useful post, but one that I feel better for making ;) )

Mackan

Jun 16, 2008, 06:28 AM

littlewaywelt

Jun 16, 2008, 08:37 AM

Yeah, kind of weird. You'd think they would be happy that a real competitor showed up (Windows Mobile...Palm...lol) to keep RIM innovative.

Windows Mobile has ten times the capability of an iPhone, sorry. lol
That said, I'm switching to an iPhone after years of WM use, primarily for mobileme service capabilities

Stampyhead

Jun 16, 2008, 09:07 AM

Windows Mobile has ten times the capability of an iPhone...

Care to explain what you mean by this?

test54

Jun 16, 2008, 09:08 AM

Apple's P/E is 35. RIM's is is very close to 59!! And Apple has 20 billion is cash and short term. RIM has less that 3 billion.

A very good P/E is 18 - 25. Apple's is a little high, but considering the conversation is Apple vs. RIM, it's not bad at all. And keep in mind that Apple's stock has been a very solid performer since the company started. Apple has a lot of good will.

Alex

And they have other products that will offset the cell phone market.

Consultant

Jun 16, 2008, 09:14 AM

Lots of people bash the iPod too. Now iPod is the most popular music player in most of the world.

Did you people even read what the OP said?. Not that Apple users don't do the same thing to Windows users although most Mac users have actually used Windows so they speak from experience unlike the Blackberry users who bash the iPhone while never trying it. He said that they are obsessed with the iPhone and every topic is about the iPhone and bashing it. I don't see every topic on MacRumors centered around bashing Windows.

You hit the nail straight on!

lmao I love looking at the stupid bb users on crackberry.com

for their top 10 reasons why "iPhone is still no BlackBerry"

#7-no expandable memory

has anyone really ever used up all 16gbs of their iPhone???? who wants a microSD anyway???

I have a 16gb touch and I really want to fill it... but I can't! I have 200 songs (out of which I listen to about 15), 3 movies (seen 'em all), and 3gbs in podcasts that I'm never guna watch... I still have 7gbs left! that's almost half! and I don't even use the iPod feature that much anyway!

no expandable memory my ass...

Yup, people with "expandable memory" phones typically buy 1 or 2gb modules to supplement their 100mb of built in ram, and don't use the sd card for anything.

It kind of reminds me of ....
Great post.

littlewaywelt

Jun 16, 2008, 10:25 AM

Care to explain what you mean by this?

seriously? you want me to start listing features? here goes...

nearly everything can be done one handed on many devices, a few require two.
cut and paste
voice dialing
voice launch of features
can watch all you tube (not just mobile) and a large variety of flash based video
can stream sirius sat radio
remote locking & wipe of device
can sync without losing entourage (lost this in 08 version) or outlook categories - a must for many of us.
can easily alter the registry for customization
speed dial pictures on home page where just holding a key lets you chose from tm, email, call, etc.
can take sd cards - I can pop my camera's card in and instantly email pictures or I can take a card out and put it into an sd card drive, when connector cables or bt connections aren't easily made. It also means I can have a large plethora of big documents available that would clog email or be rejected.
can browse file structure via app or cpu and use the device as a mobile storage unit.
can watch video, music etc in any format
can alter office docs in a native format
can run a powerpoint from phone
can have live radar images on home page along with weather (again don't have to click a separate app)
can have live traffic images and reporting, live stock & sports tickers
shows you which email accounts have mail
search the web from the home page
windows live and google maps - windows live mobile is more powerful than google's, imo. Windows live has voice control and it works really really well. "find cigars near 15217" etc. blows google maps out of the water.
keyboards - imho, a treo or other qwerty kboard is faster, but I suppose I just have to get used to apple's
bluetooth & a2dp- I understand that apple's doesn't work so well and that it's buggy or doesn't play well with others, but I don't use bt.
there are tens of thousands of reliable 3rd party apps

I could go on and on. In general WM allows greater functionality in fewer clicks. I've only played with an iPhone on a handful of occasions, but I think I got a pretty good feel for it.

I'm not an iPhone basher, and again, I'm moving to it in July, but imho, the virtues of iPhone are vastly over-rated. The reason blackberry and others "bash" iPhone is they think it's all marketing and a fancy user interface that's actually less efficient that what's already out there.

surferfromuk

Jun 16, 2008, 01:05 PM

seriously? you want me to start listing features? here goes...

nearly everything can be done one handed on many devices, a few require two.

cut and paste agreed
voice dialing agreed
voice launch of features crap
can watch all you tube (not just mobile) and a large variety of flash based video crap - handy for porn only
can stream sirius sat radio coming with apps
remote locking & wipe of device V2.0
can sync without losing entourage (lost this in 08 version) or outlook categories - a must for many of us. V2.0 Exchange integration
can easily alter the registry for customization Your kidding right?
speed dial pictures on home page where just holding a key lets you chose from tm, email, call, etc. crap
can take sd cards - I can pop my camera's card in and instantly email pictures or I can take a card out and put it into an sd card drive, when connector cables or bt connections aren't easily made. It also means I can have a large plethora of big documents available that would clog email or be rejected.
crap

can browse file structure via app or cpu and use the device as a mobile storage unit. 1st part crap - what for? 2nd part ok, agreed - might be handy
can watch video, music etc in any format pointless - itunes takes care of that - just pre-convert
can alter office docs in a native format mmh..aps will sort this
can run a powerpoint from phone V2.0
can have live radar images on home page along with weather (again don't have to click a separate app)
Flash I suppose ? Widgets and apps will sort this
can have live traffic images and reporting, live stock & sports tickers widgets and apps will sort this
shows you which email accounts have mail iPhone shows you have mail - why clutter your brain until you actually go into the accounts screen
search the web from the home page pointeless
windows live and google maps - windows live mobile is more powerful than google's, imo. Windows live has voice control and it works really really well. "find cigars near 15217" etc. blows google maps out of the water. subjective point of view - also highly questionable
keyboards - imho, a treo or other qwerty kboard is faster, but I suppose I just have to get used to apple's
bluetooth & a2dp- I understand that apple's doesn't work so well and that it's buggy or doesn't play well with others, but I don't use bt. subjective point of view - personally I hate plastic keys
there are tens of thousands of reliable 3rd party apps very much doubt that - 9000 crappy buggy nasty shareware apps - 500 half decent shareware apps - 500 decent apps BUT try to find 'em without an APP STORE. Buy them without knowing if they are safe without an APP STORE - pay for them knowing your money is safe without an APP STORE

I could go on and on. In general WM allows greater functionality in fewer clicks. I've only played with an iPhone on a handful of occasions, but I think I got a pretty good feel for it.

I'm not an iPhone basher, and again, I'm moving to it in July, but imho, the virtues of iPhone are vastly over-rated. The reason blackberry and others "bash" iPhone is they think it's all marketing and a fancy user interface that's actually less efficient that what's already out there.

You forgot to mention it has a 'task manager' in your list of 'must have iPhone beating features
. Don't get me wrong I agree that App support has been dearly lacking but we have to assume that 90% of the shortcomings will be quickly and smoothly dealt with. Apple have made great strides in perfecting the user experience and giving these features without actually managing to bugger up the delightful experience. I would say let's see exactly how much Microsoft copies of Apple for the next Winmo release...I bet a heck of a lot...but whatever they do it'll never be running on OSX - that alone makes the future of iPhone incredibly bright..

littlewaywelt

Jun 16, 2008, 04:03 PM

You forgot to mention it has a 'task manager' in your list of 'must have iPhone beating features
. Don't get me wrong I agree that App support has been dearly lacking but we have to assume that 90% of the shortcomings will be quickly and smoothly dealt with. Apple have made great strides in perfecting the user experience and giving these features without actually managing to bugger up the delightful experience. I would say let's see exactly how much Microsoft copies of Apple for the next Winmo release...I bet a heck of a lot...but whatever they do it'll never be running on OSX - that alone makes the future of iPhone incredibly bright..

the task manager is nice. I can easily switch from program to program to program. Why would you assume the shortcomings will be quickly dealt with? The fact that this gen doesn't have cut and paste is a perfect example.

What Wm has figured out that apple hasn't is that quick access to features is often key. With a WM phone you can one hand your way to a number of things with minimum key clicks. You can't do that with iPhone. You can look at the weather, radar and live traffic images right from the home page...how many clicks would that take with iPhone. I'm amazed how many fanboys apple has that think WM must be as bad as the desktop version. It's really phenomenal. A dpad is a great and fast way to move around a device.

-speed dials. I can make a call in two touches, one to turn on the phone, another to hit the key. How many does gestures and touches does it take on an iPhone? ...that's what I thought.
-voice command isn't crap- it works very well. the only thing it's missing is bt integration.
-porn may be a plus, but it works with all of you tube, not youtube mobile like -what apple is limited to. I also get some limited flash on web pages as well
-with resco explorer it takes seconds to alter the registry and do all kinds of custom things, there are even programs and cabs that automate it for you.
-mmh may sort it, but WM has had it for years.
- you won't have live apps on the homepage, you'l have to click on an icon, which goes to the heart of the issue. WM does everything faster and with fewer clicks than iPhone does.
-your lack of acknowledgement about sd cards or other is stunning. It's a fact of life for many professionals that have to deal with large files which can't be emailed.
-mail clutter your brain? you have to be kidding. Because if it's an email from LLBean I don't care. If it's from my boss or wife, I do. I can look at the home page and I don't have to waste time clicking to find out if it's important.
-wmlive is better than google maps. subjective? yes, in the same way an iphone is better than a clamshell phone. wmlive and the voice search are amazing. more options and more tied into the contacts and os.
- the number of wm programs blows away what will be on iStore. and for the probably hundred plus programs I played with or bought I can only think of a couple which were buggy.
Here's another key one. With two clicks I can sms a message back to a caller that I'm otherwise unavailble or pick from any of 12 messages I've set. iPhone have that? Thought not. It really goes on and on.

...clearly you've never spent any measurable amount of time with WM phone of any caliber and your post smacks of fanboy-ism.

BongoBanger

Jun 16, 2008, 04:07 PM

Don't get me wrong I agree that App support has been dearly lacking but we have to assume that 90% of the shortcomings will be quickly and smoothly dealt with.

I'd like to think so, but since it's over a year with still no sight of copy and paste I'm a bit sceptical.

Shackler

Jun 16, 2008, 04:34 PM

lmao I love looking at the stupid bb users on crackberry.com

for their top 10 reasons why "iPhone is still no BlackBerry"

#7-no expandable memory

has anyone really ever used up all 16gbs of their iPhone???? who wants a microSD anyway???

I have a 16gb touch and I really want to fill it... but I can't! I have 200 songs (out of which I listen to about 15), 3 movies (seen 'em all), and 3gbs in podcasts that I'm never guna watch... I still have 7gbs left! that's almost half! and I don't even use the iPod feature that much anyway!

no expandable memory my ass...

Because you dont use it doesn't mean no one does. apple does make 160GB iPods after all, someone is buying them. there is clearly a demand for 32GB iPhones. LOTS of people want microSD that why its on the VAST majority of phones.

by the way you having only 200 songs is probably in the minority amount of people.

And i see you couldn't touch any of the other 9 items on the list.

Blackberry users are definitely not having an inferiority complex.

surferfromuk

Jun 16, 2008, 05:00 PM

the task manager is nice. I can easily switch from program to program to program. Why would you assume the shortcomings will be quickly dealt with? The fact that this gen doesn't have cut and paste is a perfect example.

What Wm has figured out that apple hasn't is that quick access to features is often key. With a WM phone you can one hand your way to a number of things with minimum key clicks. You can't do that with iPhone. You can look at the weather, radar and live traffic images right from the home page...how many clicks would that take with iPhone. I'm amazed how many fanboys apple has that think WM must be as bad as the desktop version. It's really phenomenal. A dpad is a great and fast way to move around a device.

-speed dials. I can make a call in two touches, one to turn on the phone, another to hit the key. How many does gestures and touches does it take on an iPhone? ...that's what I thought.
-voice command isn't crap- it works very well. the only thing it's missing is bt integration.
-porn may be a plus, but it works with all of you tube, not youtube mobile like -what apple is limited to. I also get some limited flash on web pages as well
-with resco explorer it takes seconds to alter the registry and do all kinds of custom things, there are even programs and cabs that automate it for you.
-mmh may sort it, but WM has had it for years.
- you won't have live apps on the homepage, you'l have to click on an icon, which goes to the heart of the issue. WM does everything faster and with fewer clicks than iPhone does.
-your lack of acknowledgement about sd cards or other is stunning. It's a fact of life for many professionals that have to deal with large files which can't be emailed.
-mail clutter your brain? you have to be kidding. Because if it's an email from LLBean I don't care. If it's from my boss or wife, I do. I can look at the home page and I don't have to waste time clicking to find out if it's important.
-wmlive is better than google maps. subjective? yes, in the same way an iphone is better than a clamshell phone. wmlive and the voice search are amazing. more options and more tied into the contacts and os.
- the number of wm programs blows away what will be on iStore. and for the probably hundred plus programs I played with or bought I can only think of a couple which were buggy.
Here's another key one. With two clicks I can sms a message back to a caller that I'm otherwise unavailble or pick from any of 12 messages I've set. iPhone have that? Thought not. It really goes on and on.

...clearly you've never spent any measurable amount of time with WM phone of any caliber and your post smacks of fanboy-ism.

I think what you like to refer to fanboy-sim is rather an apple-esque point of view. The things you consider advantages and positives I consider disadvantages and negatives. This is the fundamental crux of the differences between Microsoft s/w philosophy and Apple s/w philosophy. If your expecting the iPhone to become like a Windows mobile your buying the wrong phone. It will never be like WinMo ( which I have used). I'd seriously re-consider the reasons your buying this phone because I'm not sure it's for you..you seem to have missed the entire point of it...

1) Task Manager is the anti-thesis of what the iPhone is about. Apple have and are going to great lengths to make the iPhone a one app at a time environment. This is why they are implementing a push notification service so that ever notification orientated application on your phone doesn't have it's own little sniffer process running in the background. I assure you the vast majority of non-technical people do not want to and never will want to go into a task manager if intelligent design can render it irrelevant. I can't think of a single good reason to need to go into a task manager. The home button on the iPhone is even smart enough to be the quit. That's revolutionary design at work. The only reason you ever need to go into a task manager is to kill a hung process or hunt down and kill a hung process.
2) Accessing web pages is a one click deal - you simply add the home page to the main screen - you get an icon - it launches safari and goes to that place on the web page.
3) I don't understand your obsession with 'clicks' - as if they are some kind of measure of perfection. I can quite easily access any app on my iphone with a single click. And each of those apps is beautifully and intelligently designed for multi-touch experience that is staggeringly unmatched in any way on Winmo ( which I have used and found it to be a nasty replicant mutant version of windows transferred to a portable device). Speed dialing is three click if you include the slide to unlock the phone -hardly a UI crisis - the trade off being you haven't cluttered your open screen with endless crap - meaning you can easily see all your major apps after that first slide - I think it's a BETTER way.
4) Youtube experience on iPhone is not perfect by any means but the hi-res copies make up for a lot.
5) Again you suggest that having access to the registry is some kind of pre-requisite to running your phone. If you want to mod your iphone there are apps like summerboard and there will be plenty of others. Registry is nonsense and the bane of windows since it's not exactly secure is it!
6) I know all about SD cards - I just rarely feel the need to use them. I jack in and my images are automatically copied to iPhoto -which I consider one of the finest photo management apps I've ever used and certainly significantly better than all the crap that comes with any camera. As for any other file copy - I've never needed of felt the need to do it on my phone.
7) Voice search is a seriously subjective technology. It's useless in a noisy environment and it's wierd to be talking to your phone in a room with other people in it...not convinced about that - certainly I've had it on other phones and have never used it..It's a gimmick
8) Number of programs on the app store - well, it's a bit early to make such wide sweeping statements - I think the hardware power of the iPhone and it's 3D hardware graphics acceleration together with the accelerometer and the MT UI will herald some amazing apps and becuase the UI has been systemised by the SDK we will get a uniformity of experience and operational expectation without crappy file menu's...
9) Why would you text someone to tell them your unavailable - seems like a rude thing to do...can't you just ignore them or reply ?

I really don't understand why your getting an iPhone...

surferfromuk

Jun 16, 2008, 05:10 PM

I'd like to think so, but since it's over a year with still no sight of copy and paste I'm a bit sceptical.

Phone's only been out a year. It had to start from nothing - and it's already leading the way...I'm not sure why there is no cut and paste - I can only imagine it's a deliberate ommision - perhaps they don't want to clutter the UI - I don't know but it's turning into one of those 'it's got no task manager therefore it's not complete' type of beating sticks that certain people like to keep slapping about as if to proof that the iPhone is somehow inadequate. I can honestly say I've personally never needed to cut and paste on the phone. I certainly have NEVER even contemplated it on another phone so why it's such a crisis on the iPhone I don't know...seems like Windows users are using it as some kind of 'crisis deficiency' in an effort to sway people who will seriously NEVER need to cut and paste from buying an iPhone. It's like old fashioned Windows PR FUD...

I mean tell me so I know - what would you want to cut and paste on an iPhone ?

Niiro13

Jun 16, 2008, 05:13 PM

I don't know but it's turning into one of those 'it's got no task manager therefore it's not complete' type of beating sticks that certain people like to keep slapping about as if to proof that the iPhone is somehow inadequate.

Those certain people don't understand the push concept (which is like eleventy times better :D). Then again, it doesn't come until September =/

tomegun

Jun 16, 2008, 05:22 PM

Both are great devices and both work for some people. I have a curve right now until the iPhone comes out and I like it a lot. However, for my personal use, the iPhone will be better (two cars with iPod adapters).

At least neither one of them are WM! I had a Sprint Touch and the only thing I miss about it is the form factor. Other than that, it was a pain in the butt to work with something that is so erratic.

Oh, I know what I wanted to say. The battery on the Curve is unreal. That is the most shocking part of using a BB.

BongoBanger

Jun 16, 2008, 06:03 PM

Phone's only been out a year. It had to start from nothing - and it's already leading the way...

In some features, yes. In others it's way, way behind.

I'm not sure why there is no cut and paste - I can only imagine it's a deliberate ommision - perhaps they don't want to clutter the UI - I don't know but it's turning into one of those 'it's got no task manager therefore it's not complete' type of beating sticks that certain people like to keep slapping about as if to proof that the iPhone is somehow inadequate.

Well, not really. If the iPhone wants to be considered as a corporate device it's going to have to have a cut and paste facility to edit e-mails, extract text and send it on.

I can honestly say I've personally never needed to cut and paste on the phone.

It's rare that a personal user would actually have to. I've used it on my N95 for N-Gage activation codes and to cut bits out of texts but I guess not everyone would.

I certainly have NEVER even contemplated it on another phone so why it's such a crisis on the iPhone I don't know...

Well it is a big let down for business use. It's just an inexplicable omission.

seems like Windows users are using it as some kind of 'crisis deficiency' in an effort to sway people who will seriously NEVER need to cut and paste from buying an iPhone. It's like old fashioned Windows PR FUD...

In fairness a lot of WinMo users are corporate and it is a valid concern for that market.

I mean tell me so I know - what would you want to cut and paste on an iPhone ?

E-mails mainly.

weg

Jun 16, 2008, 06:17 PM

So over the last month I regularly visited and read posts on a couple of the big BB forums (e.g., pinstack.com).

It's just fanboyism. Go to Engadget, find a few posts about Windows Mobile 7 or something like that, and look at all the posts of Apple fanboys immediately stating that the iPhone is much better... (of course, there are Microsoft fanboys, too, but they are usually less preposterous).

The BB might be better for certain applications, and there are other applications where an iPhone is the better choice. Who cares? Just buy what you need. If you need to convince other people that you made the right choice (looking for reassurance), then you're probably not so sure about that after all. That goes for BB fanboys as well as for Apple fanboys.

mixmacface

Jun 16, 2008, 09:02 PM

we don't hate them, we petty them, they are missing out on sooooooo much.(:apple:)

i think you mean pitty. . but this is a ridiculous argument. . those who are faithful to apple will with all their might swear by apple's products. those who do not like apple (who actually despise) them will try and take apple down at the "knees". it's a silly argument, and nobody will win. . and somebody will always re-ignite the fire.

and on a lighter note, i just had some amazing brownies. they were absolutely fantastic.

spooky2k

Jun 16, 2008, 09:34 PM

i think you mean pitty. . but this is a ridiculous argument. . those who are faithful to apple will with all their might swear by apple's products. those who do not like apple (who actually despise) them will try and take apple down at the "knees". it's a silly argument, and nobody will win. . and somebody will always re-ignite the fire.

and on a lighter note, i just had some amazing brownies. they were absolutely fantastic.
...No they weren't. :P
(I was reading this argument thread and thought I'd jump in...we're talking about whose brownies are better right?)

Cut n paste: It will come soon enough. There have been many reports that they are figuring out how to implement it system-wide without creating clutter is the problem.
The iPhone was behind in many respects, but when the 3G was announced (along with software 2.0), the list of features to add went down hugely. Except for a better camera and storage (which will come in time, tech permitting), all the omissions are purely software based. This is a great thing!

Kinderhauz

Jun 17, 2008, 01:29 AM

After looking at blackberryforums I found some pretty funny stuff. This one is my favorite:

-The iPhone offers nothing (enterprise feature wise) above and beyond what a Blackberry can do. Organizations with a Blackberry infrastructure already paid for aren't going to switch to something that doesn't improve on anything just to use iPhones (believe it or not most companies would prefer their employees not have great web access on the road)

Wouldn't that be a great commercial for Blackberry?

"Buy our phone -- because the internet looks like **** on it, and your employees will spend more time doing work instead of surfing the web"

surferfromuk

Jun 17, 2008, 02:20 AM

I find it bizarre how certain people disregard everything amazing about the iPhone and just bleat on about cut and paste resorting to fanboyism claims when logic runs dry. Fact is when it comes they will just start bleating about something else because they simply will never be happy with what they have. Funny how calls of fanboyism only come into play when microsoft products are in the topic and the allegation is always from the microsoft camp. Bottom line - they hate that Apple inspires such admiration - it's bad for their business.

marksman

Jun 17, 2008, 03:56 AM

"Buy Blackberry for your company. Especially if you don't want your employees surfing the web. We employ advanced web-blocking technology. With our special UI, we are able to make web-browsing so painful and agnoizing, that no sane employee of yours will waste their time at work or at home mindlessly surfing the web. This means higher productivity for you."

BongoBanger

Jun 17, 2008, 04:41 AM

Agathon

Jun 17, 2008, 08:36 AM

An interesting thread. I don't think that Blackberry users have much to worry about in the short term, since the corporate world is pretty conservative and people tend to stay with what they know.

Having said that, and having read some of the posts on Crackberry.com, I think they are scared witless. All this stuff about copy and paste and MMS is a mere smokescreen.

-----
Pause: I doubt the iPhone will get copy/paste because it would violate the UI conventions. The iPhone treats things like phone numbers, URLs, contacts, etc. as objects, not as pieces of text. The iPhone will more likely rely on a send object to app model than copy/paste. End pause.
-----

What really scares Blackberry users is that the iPhone is a game changing device. As I've said a million times, it isn't a phone – it's a portable computing platform that happens to have a phone in it. You can even buy one without a phone if you want.

You may have noticed that other mobile phone platforms run on wildly different kinds of hardware. Some of them are candy bar phones, some have full keyboards and so on. This makes it really difficult for developers to standardize user interaction across different devices. Every developer is going to know exactly how their app is going to work on every iPhone.

Platforms like Windows and Macintosh rely on everyone having the same kind of screen and a mouse and a keyboard. Mobile phones are littered with buttons and all sorts of different hardware UIs. Successful platforms require UI standardization. The iPhone has that by basically eliminating buttons.

The iPhone has a much more versatile UI. This is the whole point of getting rid of the buttons. It is what makes it a computer that happens to have a phone in it rather than a phone that has some computer functionality.

Lastly, from what developers are saying, the iPhone has a much better SDK than other devices.

Look at it this way. If there's one thing that the iPhone has over its competitors, it is the browser. But the browser is just one application. In six months there are going to be a whole host of applications, all of them a click away and many of them free, which will be desktop class applications.

Or look at it another way. You will be able to play a pretty nice version of Super Monkey Ball on your phone. So what if you don't like Super Monkey Ball? That's not the point. You try playing Super Monkey Ball on a Blackberry Pearl, and then you realize that a phone that can run an app like Super Monkey Ball and phone apps and browsers and multimedia, can basically do anything.

Ask yourself who would want to buy a computer that was only good for reading email or crude browsing when you could buy a computer that could do those things and was so versatile that it could do pretty much anything.

Apple has made a nice phone with a cool touchscreen interface. If you leave it at that, then there isn't much for other companies to worry about. But the nice phone with the touchscreen happens to be a pretty awesome standardized platform for third party developers with extremely low entry barriers.

Lest this be thought of as wildly promoting Apple at the expense of other manufacturers, just take a look at Google. Android is going to be the major iPhone competitor, because Google knows that it's the software. Microsoft knows this too, but they have spent years on Windows Mobile, which has simply failed to attract any real attention.

littlewaywelt

Jun 17, 2008, 08:40 AM

I think what you like to refer to fanboy-sim is rather an apple-esque point of view. The things you consider advantages and positives I consider disadvantages and negatives. This is the fundamental crux of the differences between Microsoft s/w philosophy and Apple s/w philosophy. If your expecting the iPhone to become like a Windows mobile your buying the wrong phone. It will never be like WinMo ( which I have used). I'd seriously re-consider the reasons your buying this phone because I'm not sure it's for you..you seem to have missed the entire point of it...

1) Task Manager is the anti-thesis of what the iPhone is about. Apple have and are going to great lengths to make the iPhone a one app at a time environment. This is why they are implementing a push notification service so that ever notification orientated application on your phone doesn't have it's own little sniffer process running in the background. I assure you the vast majority of non-technical people do not want to and never will want to go into a task manager if intelligent design can render it irrelevant. I can't think of a single good reason to need to go into a task manager. The home button on the iPhone is even smart enough to be the quit. That's revolutionary design at work. The only reason you ever need to go into a task manager is to kill a hung process or hunt down and kill a hung process.
2) Accessing web pages is a one click deal - you simply add the home page to the main screen - you get an icon - it launches safari and goes to that place on the web page.
3) I don't understand your obsession with 'clicks' - as if they are some kind of measure of perfection. I can quite easily access any app on my iphone with a single click. And each of those apps is beautifully and intelligently designed for multi-touch experience that is staggeringly unmatched in any way on Winmo ( which I have used and found it to be a nasty replicant mutant version of windows transferred to a portable device). Speed dialing is three click if you include the slide to unlock the phone -hardly a UI crisis - the trade off being you haven't cluttered your open screen with endless crap - meaning you can easily see all your major apps after that first slide - I think it's a BETTER way.
4) Youtube experience on iPhone is not perfect by any means but the hi-res copies make up for a lot.
5) Again you suggest that having access to the registry is some kind of pre-requisite to running your phone. If you want to mod your iphone there are apps like summerboard and there will be plenty of others. Registry is nonsense and the bane of windows since it's not exactly secure is it!
6) I know all about SD cards - I just rarely feel the need to use them. I jack in and my images are automatically copied to iPhoto -which I consider one of the finest photo management apps I've ever used and certainly significantly better than all the crap that comes with any camera. As for any other file copy - I've never needed of felt the need to do it on my phone.
7) Voice search is a seriously subjective technology. It's useless in a noisy environment and it's wierd to be talking to your phone in a room with other people in it...not convinced about that - certainly I've had it on other phones and have never used it..It's a gimmick
8) Number of programs on the app store - well, it's a bit early to make such wide sweeping statements - I think the hardware power of the iPhone and it's 3D hardware graphics acceleration together with the accelerometer and the MT UI will herald some amazing apps and becuase the UI has been systemised by the SDK we will get a uniformity of experience and operational expectation without crappy file menu's...
9) Why would you text someone to tell them your unavailable - seems like a rude thing to do...can't you just ignore them or reply ?

I really don't understand why your getting an iPhone...

Getting an iphone so that I can have wireless syncing of address book and calendar. I'm not bashing it, but rather acknowledging that other devices out there have a lot of superior features The iPhone while amazing does a lot of things that other phones have done for years, but without the iconic apple brand (and everything it deservedly signifies) behind them, they were never recognized. Imho, most power users of WM and to some extent BB laugh when they see iPhones exulted as revolutionary devices. The user interface is. Other than that they aren't.

Don't get me wrong, I'm terribly excited to get one.

1- this was the problem with palm os. I can easily switch between multiple apps without relaunching or closing files. I can put someone on speakerphone and check a spreadsheet or file and make appnts or call notes at the same time I'm talking to that person. It's like being at a desktop...sort of.
2- good to know.
3- it's not an obession, it's about easy of use. A WM device is fast and efficient. Ex- if I want to call my wife I can power the phone on and either hit the speeddial picture or use the dpad, again all with one hand. To delete an email I just have to hold the center button and a menu pops up with delete at the top; then I just click the center button again. I don't have to sweep my finger to the right and then hit another button.
4- I'm not a big youtube user and I'm sure the mobile version will be more than sufficient for me
5- registry edits are very nice for customzing. It's plenty secure. There are probably as many WM viruses as there are for mac. You don't need virus checker or anything similar. I've never seen a single person get hit with a WM virus. Being able to easily edit the registry is nice for those who want to do it. Many power users have come up with some great edits.
6- I use iPhoto too, and I like it. But when out in the field, I can take pics in my camera and pop the card into a phone and email them instantly. That's a big plus for many ppl.
7- on the voice search works exceptionally well. It's not a gimick. It's actually useful. I've used previous incarnations and the current MS version works heads and tails above anything else I've tried. When I'm driving I can do the whole thing without having to use the keypad which I suspect would be even more difficult an iPhone which I understand usually requires two hands.
8- I agree. I think apps I the iPhone will be much nicer, but it's going to take a while for the offering to be similar in depth.
9- because if I'm in a mtg the phone tells them so and that I'll call them back as soon as I can. Let's them instantly know when they call. It's a phenomenal feature that's quite the opposite of rude.

I'

surferfromuk

Jun 17, 2008, 01:09 PM

Getting an iphone so that I can have wireless syncing of address book and calendar. I'm not bashing it, but rather acknowledging that other devices out there have a lot of superior features The iPhone while amazing does a lot of things that other phones have done for years, but without the iconic apple brand (and everything it deservedly signifies) behind them, they were never recognized. Imho, most power users of WM and to some extent BB laugh when they see iPhones exulted as revolutionary devices. The user interface is. Other than that they aren't.

Don't get me wrong, I'm terribly excited to get one.

1- this was the problem with palm os. I can easily switch between multiple apps without relaunching or closing files. I can put someone on speakerphone and check a spreadsheet or file and make appnts or call notes at the same time I'm talking to that person. It's like being at a desktop...sort of.
2- good to know.
3- it's not an obession, it's about easy of use. A WM device is fast and efficient. Ex- if I want to call my wife I can power the phone on and either hit the speeddial picture or use the dpad, again all with one hand. To delete an email I just have to hold the center button and a menu pops up with delete at the top; then I just click the center button again. I don't have to sweep my finger to the right and then hit another button.
4- I'm not a big youtube user and I'm sure the mobile version will be more than sufficient for me
5- registry edits are very nice for customzing. It's plenty secure. There are probably as many WM viruses as there are for mac. You don't need virus checker or anything similar. I've never seen a single person get hit with a WM virus. Being able to easily edit the registry is nice for those who want to do it. Many power users have come up with some great edits.
6- I use iPhoto too, and I like it. But when out in the field, I can take pics in my camera and pop the card into a phone and email them instantly. That's a big plus for many ppl.
7- on the voice search works exceptionally well. It's not a gimick. It's actually useful. I've used previous incarnations and the current MS version works heads and tails above anything else I've tried. When I'm driving I can do the whole thing without having to use the keypad which I suspect would be even more difficult an iPhone which I understand usually requires two hands.
8- I agree. I think apps I the iPhone will be much nicer, but it's going to take a while for the offering to be similar in depth.
9- because if I'm in a mtg the phone tells them so and that I'll call them back as soon as I can. Let's them instantly know when they call. It's a phenomenal feature that's quite the opposite of rude.

I'

Fair enough - You raise some reasonable points - There are a few things here which you might like to know about. ;

1) Cool - well you'll be pleased to know you can do the exact same thing on the iPhone. When in a call you can click the home button go into your email and do all that stuff. The iPhone paints a small green bar at the top of the screen and if you touch it you return to the phone app. Same with the built in iPod - you can go off and do other stuff while that's playing music etc...
3) I think you'll find the iPhone as fast if not faster once you get into it. Hidden pop up menu's are inelegant IMO.
5) There are NO Mac viruses and I certainly don't expect their to be any iPhone apps given the secure signed method of app delivery.
6) Fair enough. I can see where your going with that...Seems quite specialised given you have a phone with a camera which can email your photo without the carry on with an SD card...I don't think too many people will be using their iPhone to jack in a 5MB picture from their SD card to email it..
7) In the Car to initiate a call I can agree - elsewhere I can't see it. However, someone will do a voice call app within a few weeks.
9) Fair enough, still you can record a custom voicemail greeting which says 'Sorry, I'm in a meeting right now. Will call you back as soon as I can'...Then the call goes onto Visual Voicemail - you can see who it is when your meetings done and make a decision to call them all from the visual voicemail screen - very elegant - very easy - very efficient. Texting is like second class post - if it was that important they would ring so no biggy for them to wait an hour for a reply...

I think, for the most part you'll be surprised at the depth of the iPhone once you get into it. The really clever part of it being that they've managed to hid a lot of the complexity without compromising anything significant.

stagi

Jun 17, 2008, 01:14 PM

the people on those forums are just haters

born4sky

Jun 17, 2008, 03:29 PM

Personally I cant wait to get iPhone back to my hands, first generation went on eBay. Right now using nokia n95 and can't say that I am enjoying it.

Shackler

Jun 17, 2008, 04:18 PM

the people on those forums are just haters

too much haterade on this site and blackberry sites.
E.L.E!
Everybody Love Everybody

PhightinPhils26

Jun 17, 2008, 05:15 PM

too much haterade on this site and blackberry sites.
E.L.E!
Everybody Love Everybody

I bet if there were cell phones then Jackie Moon would have had both a BlackBerry and an iPhone.

freediverdude

Jun 17, 2008, 05:55 PM

Well, I think Blackberry is going to become less and less relevant, but not because of the differences between the phones themselves (although the niceness of the iPhone will speed that along).

The problem with Blackberry, like another poster was talking about, is the need for the Blackberry enterprise server, and the fact that all the Blackberry traffic must go through that one single location in Canada. Back in 2000-2005 or so, Blackberry was pretty much the only option for business executives to get reliable work email on a portable device. But with the advent of Windows Mobile and Activesync, and now the iPhone licensing Activesync as well, it will become much much cheaper for IT departments to go with this solution, over an expensive and harder to configure separate Blackberry server. And if Blackberry's Canada location goes down, like we've seen a couple examples of recently, huge numbers of Blackberry users all over the country are suddenly dead in the water, versus if you have some Exchange servers in your business and one goes down, not everyone is down.

So expect that as licensing agreements come up for renewal, and Blackberry servers reach their end-of-life in the next few years, which are they going to pick? Go with the huge Blackberry deal again, or go for what is cheaper and simpler? In my opinion, for Blackberry to stay relevant after the next few years, they will need to completely restructure how their product works, not just come out with a touchscreen phone.

zap2

Jun 17, 2008, 06:21 PM

To be fair internet browsing is way, way down on the list of requirements for a corporate smartphone and, as a manager myslef, I can totally understand why you wouldn't want your employess to have a good browser! :D

:eek:

How is that "being fair"?

If the iPhone had a bad browser people would be all over it as its a terrible device.....having a bad web experience is NOT a plus, not matter how anyone tries to play it off. Nor is lacking copy and paste features. Both RIM and Apple have places to improve, and they need to do so.

brian250

Jun 17, 2008, 06:55 PM

To me the iPhone is the future of the phone. Jobs made statements like "Today apple re-invents the phone" 12 months ago. I think on that day he may have overstepped the mark a little bit. The hone he launched was a fairly average piece of kit, with fantastic potential. The launch of 3G/2.0 is somehting that will reinvent the iPhone all over again, the flexibility, ability and usibility of iPhone is totally unmatched at present.

The interface on the Blackberry is incredibly user unfriendly, but "ok when you get used to it". By contrast someone was doing something with my iPhone and exclaimed "oh my God I thought it would do that when I did this and it did it!! its amazing!"
When I took mine out of the box, I thought "there is iPhone and everything else, nothing else comes close to this, why have I been messing with buttons for the past decade?"

Oh, and looking at the touch attempts from Samsung and LG.....apple must be absolutely wetting themselves, they are bloody awful!

Brian.

JPIndustrie

Jun 17, 2008, 08:13 PM

:eek:

How is that "being fair"?

If the iPhone had a bad browser people would be all over it as its a terrible device.....having a bad web experience is NOT a plus, not matter how anyone tries to play it off. Nor is lacking copy and paste features. Both RIM and Apple have places to improve, and they need to do so.

He means in a corporate environment, not a personal use device.

And that is 'Fair'. Fair in that everyone will have the same tools available when working for company A that employs Blackberries as de facto handheld given to its mobile employees.

I know that sounds like communism but hey, ever heard your teacher say, 'outside the classroom, it's a democracy, but inside the room, I'm the boss!" ? That's the corporate world.

Plus, we in IT don't want to hear from your managers telling us you missed an important quote or binder, simply because you were too busy browsing on Macrumors. :D:D:D

iNikon

Jun 17, 2008, 09:27 PM

Good Lord people, listen to yourselves. It's a freakin' PHONE! A PHONE!

Do you people live your lives out of this phone? Do any of you actually get laid at all? I seriously wonder when I read posts like this.

"OMFG tehy r soooo jealussss"

"OMG!!!! Did NE ov U C teh screen? It suxors!!!"

Get a grip people.

sfoalex

Jun 17, 2008, 09:38 PM

3 words

Blackberry is dead.

tsice19

Jun 17, 2008, 09:45 PM

Oh the irony.

Apple users are of course so well known for being open minded to competing products :rolleyes: :p

I think you just won the internet.

Krafty

Jun 17, 2008, 09:55 PM

I have the curve.

It sucks.

I want an iPhone.

Knolly

Jun 18, 2008, 12:00 AM

Thread = tldr.

My point:

Claiming that BlackBerry users have an inferiority complex shows that you yourself have a superiority complex.

Enjoy your phone.

sfoalex

Jun 18, 2008, 12:53 AM

I have the curve.

It sucks.

I want an iPhone.

I had the 8310, and the 8800. Gave them both away. Can't really sell them since AT&T basically gives them away with a sign up. Guess BlackBerry doesn't command much of a price at retail.

Alex

Shackler

Jun 18, 2008, 12:55 AM

Now you know. They're dead bro...seriously. I mean come on....

Alex

well when you put it that way it must fact bro... I mean come on

beccajk

Jun 18, 2008, 12:56 AM

apples and blackberrys.. its all just fruit!

sfoalex

Jun 18, 2008, 01:10 AM

well when you put it that way it must fact bro... I mean come on

Well, I wrote big long posts why BlackBerry would lose to the iPhone, but people don't want to read. So I wrote a much shorter post which just cuts to the chase. They're dead. It's simple, and anyone can read it quickly.

I could go into all the reasons why again, but BlackBerry owners will gloss over them. So why bother? My 8310 with 64 MBs of memory against a 16 GB iPhone. Hmmm... Out classed right there. A text based system with a option key which is really a right mouse click paradigm, against a system designed from the ground up to allow simple choices without having to loom for them in menus. Sounds like a winner to me.

BlackBerry email with a ton of text links all over the email make it nere impossible to read email which was meant to be read as HTML. 3rd party software to the rescue mostly solves it, but between those HTML parse engines, and 3rd party software to help you read attachments, it's a whole lot of added on help and it's clunky and any BB user who says it isn't is not being truthful with themselves.

Attachment viewing, and email in general on the iPhone is far better and easier to read.

Show me a single BB app that even remotely compares to the SalesForce.com app we saw on the March 6th show. Show me one BB game that is as good as Spore or Monkey Ball. Show me one media player as good as the iPod in the iPhone. Show me a single photo manager as good as that which is built into the iPhone. It's like comparing DOS to a Mac.

So, I could go on and on, but at the end of the day it's simple. BB is yesterday's technology. iPhone is today's technology. They can't even install software beyond the built in base memory. They have like 22 MBs of total free mem, and if you don't leave between 6 to 12 MBs free, you'll be pulling the battery. All the apps are little tiny aps that are lighter than lite. Compare to any iPhone app which feels almost comparable to a desktop class app. You see that the BlackBerry was great in it's day. Which was yesterday. Time for the "has been" device to step aside and let progress take its natural course. Sure there are nah sayers. I am sure they drive a horse and wagon too. But it's today, and I am looking for to tomorrow. I don't look backwards for the future. I look forward.

Alex

BongoBanger

Jun 18, 2008, 03:54 AM

How is that "being fair"?

If the iPhone had a bad browser people would be all over it as its a terrible device.....having a bad web experience is NOT a plus, not matter how anyone tries to play it off. Nor is lacking copy and paste features. Both RIM and Apple have places to improve, and they need to do so.

I think you missed the point that I was talking about it as a corporate device, not a personal one. A nice mobile web browser isn't exactly at the top of the list for corporate requirements.

BongoBanger

Jun 18, 2008, 03:55 AM

Well, I wrote big long posts why BlackBerry would lose to the iPhone, but people don't want to read.

Oh we did, but since you made a lot of rather dubious assumptions they were largely ignored

mixmacface

Jun 18, 2008, 08:09 AM

apples and blackberrys.. its all just fruit!

don't forget pears and grapes!
yay for fruit!! :p

sfoalex

Jun 18, 2008, 08:46 AM

Oh we did, but since you made a lot of rather dubious assumptions they were largely ignored

And there you have it. A post that doesn't back up a single claim. Typical. Which is why it is far easier to simply post the end result. iPhone will begin to take the market away from the BB. Slowly at first, but eventual non the less.

Alex

diamond.g

Jun 18, 2008, 08:58 AM

Well, I wrote big long posts why BlackBerry would lose to the iPhone, but people don't want to read. So I wrote a much shorter post which just cuts to the chase. They're dead. It's simple, and anyone can read it quickly.
snip> But it's today, and I am looking for to tomorrow. I don't look backwards for the future. I look forward.

Alex

Sounds interesting. Of course it still all sounds similar to Apple killing Microsoft. I look forward to revisiting this post at a later date to see how much has changed.

test54

Jun 18, 2008, 09:35 AM

3 words

Blackberry is dead.

Alex you are a little dramatic there, maybe in 15-20 years but certainly not anytime soon.

sfoalex

Jun 18, 2008, 09:44 AM

Alex you are a little dramatic there, maybe in 15-20 years but certainly not anytime soon.

You honestly think RIM has 15 to 20 years left? Apple itself is the oldest personal computer company in the world, and they have lasted 25 years and growing. Let me give you some perspective on how things change in 15 to 20 years.

Compaq... DEAD Bought by HP
IBMs personal computer business, DEAD -- Sold to Levano.
Gateway.... DEAD Sold
Packard Bell... Dead in the US, almost dead.
Osborne.....DEAD
DataGeneral one....Dead
Leading Edge....DEAD
Commodore......DEAD, though PC clones are out there.
Amiga......DEAD
Atari......DEAD

shall I go on? All were great companies. All of which had a future. All of which are dead. 15 to 20 years, seriously I am not being dramatic. History backs up my claim. Palm is almost dead. See any Nino's around any more? I had one of those. The CE units tech guys loved so much... I don't see those being hardly sold anymore. 15 years ago, they were not even invented. They rose, got popular, and died in 15 years.

In 15 years Motorola's processors went from 44% of the market to less than 2%. Alive in embedded devices now is what even keeps them in existence at all.

I give RIM 3 to 5 years tops.

Alex

Shackler

Jun 18, 2008, 10:04 AM

tonywob

Jun 18, 2008, 10:12 AM

sfoalex

Jun 18, 2008, 10:27 AM

Wow a company the is posting record profits, record sales is dead AND you are comparing it to devices that came out BEFORE the iPhone.

You think RIM has nothing left and they are just going to stop innovating altogether? Apple is not the only company to push an industry forward. People need to be a little less bias and little more open to realize no one device is perfect. you talk like the iPhone will have monopoly in 3-5 years wow, a bit of a stretch don't you think?

Come talk to me when you can record video on your precious phone.

LOL. Record Video is what is holding back the iphone then huh. Good luck with that statement holding any water at all. And yes, RIM is doing record sales, and this is exactly why I think it will fall very hard.

RIM has a P/E of 63 intraday today. You might not be into stocks the way I am, so let me explain a few fundamentals. P/E means Price to Earnings Ratio. Right now, RIM is trading at a value 63 times greater than its earnings support.

If you wanted to buy a business, they'd not sell it for what the company makes in a year or even two years. Perhaps not even 5 years. So imagine you want to buy the corner store that sells sodas and candy to kids. The sale price of the store is likely 5 to 10 times its earnings potential. You as a buyer are investing. It's long term. So the store would perhaps sell at a P/E of 10 to 1. Some 5:1 some even less. It depends on the market.

Let's go back to RIM. RIM is 72% owned by large institutions. This is because of it is considered to be a stable company. It doesn't make big changes either way. Kind of like how IBM is now. Or even Microsoft. They pretty much stay the course. But these investments companies make in other companies can shift. They can easily say, gosh, RIM is trading very high right now, and they kind of have all their eggs in one single basket. All they do is this phone thing. So if that one market dips for RIM, the entire company dips accordingly. And so these institutions might decide it would be best if they put their funds into companies that can weather a SmartPhone change in the industry. If Android and iPhone start to pull interest away from RIM, they will be in trouble, and in a very quick way. I'll explain.

When you have a P/E this high, it means that the investment community believes you are growing. And as you rightly pointed out, RIM is growing. They have record profits. I'm not saying they don't. What I am saying is that they are volatile. What I mean by that is this. The P/E suggests growth is the norm. RIM is "Expected" to grow. So if they flatten, or stop, guess what happens to the trade valuation of RIM? Seriously, take a real honest guess. The answer is, they will go through what is called a "correction". They will drop in stock value, thus valuation because they will adjust to the reality that RIM is not growing at the rate they once were, if at all.

Now, what I am about to write is a leap.

When you flatten, or go through a correction, it's darn near impossible to rise up again. And I submit to you that RIM will go through a correction. I believe interest is in trouble. I believe the iPhone will hit them a little in the beginning, and then gain momentum. I believe Google's Android platform will hit them a little and then gain momentum. And I think even Windows Mobile will step up and hit them a little and then a lot.

The reason is, BlackBerry has an dated foundation compared to what we see going on today. They are in the same boat Palm was in when Windows Mobile first released. Palm was the unstoppable force. Look at them today. What the heck happened? Simple. They were dated and refused to believe it. Palm splintered its business. Tried to adapt by offering Windows Mobile on some of their hardware. RIM will need to do the same. If they don't, they will go through what Palm is going through. It's not that much of a leap. We see this all the time.

What about Wall Street?

Wall Street is good at one thing. They look at yesterday, and today, and the forecast for tomorrow. They don't look at much else. And that's why we have a correction. If you look at any stock chart since the beginning, you will see what I am saying. The stock will have a jagged line going up or down, and then, BAMM. You see a sharp drop. A cliff. This is the correction. They all go through it. Why? Because Wall Street doesn't exactly look at what I am talking about. They don't really factor in the competitor until it becomes a reality on paper. And so you see a sharp course change, which is the correction.

The more RIM rises in my opinion, the harder it will fall. I write that because I believe in my bones that Android, iPhone, and Windows Mobile are about to take center stage. And I believe RIM is heading for a correction. And when it does hit that correction, mark my words, they will drop half their value almost over night. And that will have a domino affect on RIM, and your warm happy thoughts of their company and business model.

RIM in my opinion is merely Palm 2.0.

Alex

diamond.g

Jun 18, 2008, 11:12 AM

snip
Alex

The only reason why RIM is successful is because they have a pretty reliable way of getting Exchange services to a mobile device. Sure they have had outages (who hasn't, bet their uptime is still 99% overall). MS saw this and increased efforts to have a service that does what RIM is doing. Apple is using Microsoft's method. That is fine. But until someone else ursups Exchange, RIM will have a place in the corporate/government world.

sfoalex

Jun 18, 2008, 11:23 AM

The only reason why RIM is successful is because they have a pretty reliable way of getting Exchange services to a mobile device. Sure they have had outages (who hasn't, bet their uptime is still 99% overall). MS saw this and increased efforts to have a service that does what RIM is doing. Apple is using Microsoft's method. That is fine. But until someone else ursups Exchange, RIM will have a place in the corporate/government world.

Sorry, I don't know what the made up work "ursups" means. But I am guessing from context you mean "does a better job". To which I would say, there are two ways to look at "better". Technically or perception. I think Microsoft's method using ActiveSync is fine. In a way perhaps better because you don't have the 3rd party NOC to deal with.

The more parts the engine has, the more failure is likely to occur. Simple things tend to be better things.

Alex

CrazEtooN

Jun 18, 2008, 11:27 AM

zflauaus

Jun 18, 2008, 11:30 AM

Ok, this thread is quite stereotypical. I'm a proud BlackBerry user and yet I still drool over the iPhone in some aspects.

The iPhone has it down pat in the UI/integration department, full web/HTML email, and the coolness factor. With 2.0 it's starting to get a foothold with it's MobileMe push mail and GPS, but I wouldn't use the push mail on the iPhone anyways because it's not Google Apps/Gmail which is push on the BlackBerry.

I'd love to get an iPhone as an additional device to my BlackBerry, but there is no AT&T service where I live so I'm "stuck" with a BlackBerry.

Perhaps people should consider that some BlackBerry users don't hate the iPhone... Shocker. :eek:

CrazEtooN

Jun 18, 2008, 11:33 AM

Perhaps people should consider that some BlackBerry users don't hate the iPhone... Shocker. :eek:

I think it is widely accepted that not all BlackBerry users hate the iPhone. This thread was directed at the specific group that insists on starting iPhone-bash threads on their respective BlackBerry forums. That, to me anyway, shows a great deal of hate.

diamond.g

Jun 18, 2008, 11:34 AM

Sorry, I don't know what the made up work "ursups" means. But I am guessing from context you mean "does a better job". To which I would say, there are two ways to look at "better". Technically or perception. I think Microsoft's method using ActiveSync is fine. In a way perhaps better because you don't have the 3rd party NOC to deal with.

The more parts the engine has, the more failure is likely to occur. Simple things tend to be better things.

Alex I meant usurp, lol can't spell.

I was sorta looking into active sync. If you are just using a BES server and don't actually have an OWA/ISA server set up already you are going to have to do that.
Well I take that partially back. Those that don't care about their security don't have to set an ISA/OWA server up. For the rest of us, that means more Exchange licenses (cause you are gonna want two or more OWA/ISA servers).

If you already have an ISA/OWA server then you are pretty much all set. Although, I still haven't been able to find out if the iPhone supports certificates for authentication. Otherwise you will be talking to the OWA server in clear text. Or at least MS claims you will be. That sure sounds like a winner...

littlewaywelt

Jun 18, 2008, 11:34 AM

Unlike the other companies listed RIM is fully entrenched in the US gvt. They will be going for years and years.

sfoalex

Jun 18, 2008, 01:11 PM

I meant usurp, lol can't spell.

I was sorta looking into active sync. If you are just using a BES server and don't actually have an OWA/ISA server set up already you are going to have to do that.
Well I take that partially back. Those that don't care about their security don't have to set an ISA/OWA server up. For the rest of us, that means more Exchange licenses (cause you are gonna want two or more OWA/ISA servers).

If you already have an ISA/OWA server then you are pretty much all set. Although, I still haven't been able to find out if the iPhone supports certificates for authentication. Otherwise you will be talking to the OWA server in clear text. Or at least MS claims you will be. That sure sounds like a winner...

Thanks for the work correction. I should have realized it.

Best,

Alex

sfoalex

Jun 18, 2008, 01:36 PM

Unlike the other companies listed RIM is fully entrenched in the US gvt. They will be going for years and years.

Did you watch the Keynote at all? One the people saying rather nice things about the iPhone was a military agency. One of the singe largest ones at that. But what concerns me most is the hubris of your statement. You seem pretty darn confident in your opinion that the government, once selecting the use of BlackBerry, is incapable of changing their minds or adopting newer and better technologies as they release to market. You could not have picked a worse target to lay that claim. The military is absolutely famous for constantly pushing newer and better technologies. Government will drop the blackberry like an incendiary if something rose up and proved to be a better fit for their needs. Still further, this obsession this discussion has with a direct compare to existing BlackBerry devices is completely null. The iPhone's strength is that it is a platform that is new. And as with any new platform, you shouldn't be comparing it to how well it copies old legacy technology. What a new platform means is a new way of addressing a problem, often a new problem, not the same old problem. Did SalesForce.com copy a tiny less than tiny mobile app on the blackberry for their new software on the iPhone, or did the work within the iPhone's platform to create something unique and new, but also something that utilized the strength of the platform?

Who cares about what the blackberry has today. We're not talking about making the same thing here. We're talking about brand spanking new opportunities. You're not going to see applications that are "like" the blackberry. You're going to see things you had not thought of. Government isn't thinking about replacing. They are thinking about solving some entirely new problem outside of the Blackberry opportunity. That's what new platforms are all about. We didn't invent Windows and Mac OS to run DOS apps in a window. We invented the GUI to completely change ALL software for the better. And with that, we opened up entirely new opportunities.

This is exactly why a fund of $100 million was started. And for RIM to simply think it's about money, and create a fund for developers to match Apple only shows you just how clueless they are. Getting rid of the input interface in favor of a touch screen in the Thunder product does not change the BB platform. Creating a fund does not change the platform.

I said it before and I'll say it again. RIM is CLUELESS as to how to combat what Apple has done. Google is NOT. Android represents real competition. BlackBerry is dead. They just don't know it yet.

Alex

diamond.g

Jun 18, 2008, 02:05 PM

Thanks for the work correction. I should have realized it.

Best,

Alex

Not a problem.

In the end I think Apple will do well. But (and this is in regards to the other post you made) the iPhone won't gain more traction until they offer a version without a camera. There are plenty of people in the various three letter agencies that would love to use the iPhone but the strict camera phone policy is killing those plans. Plus Apple will need to make a CDMA version as Verizon is pretty popular in the government (I have no clue why that is).

And offer it with more carriers. That whole sole source stuff is messy (how do you get three quotes for a product where only one vendor carries it?).

BongoBanger

Jun 18, 2008, 02:15 PM

RIM has a P/E of 63 intraday today. You might not be into stocks the way I am, so let me explain a few fundamentals. P/E means Price to Earnings Ratio. Right now, RIM is trading at a value 63 times greater than its earnings support.

If you wanted to buy a business, they'd not sell it for what the company makes in a year or even two years. Perhaps not even 5 years. So imagine you want to buy the corner store that sells sodas and candy to kids. The sale price of the store is likely 5 to 10 times its earnings potential. You as a buyer are investing. It's long term. So the store would perhaps sell at a P/E of 10 to 1. Some 5:1 some even less. It depends on the market.

Given Apple's P/E is 37 everything you say about RIMM applies to them as well.

Ori

Jun 18, 2008, 02:19 PM

Oh the irony.

Apple users are of course so well known for being open minded to competing products :rolleyes: :p

Well you see I don't quite agree with you there. Yes Apple users tend to bash windows a hell of a lot, but so do windows users. Also Mac users use windows where as most windows users have never ever used a Mac.
I personally switched to a Mac 1 year ago. I was a windows fanatic all my life (I'm 32 so pretty ingrained) and hated the thought of "learning" how to use a new OS. I thought I would give the hype a go and replaced my VIAO with a 2nd hand Powerbook G4. I have never looked back. I find myself windows bashing as I can't believe anyone would want to use Windows! I hate the fact I have to use it at work. It drives me nuts with how flakey it is and so forth. Don't get me wrong, there is software on a PC that I would like on my Mac, but isn't there. It was also a major reason for me switching to the Iphone as I couldn't stand the lack of BB support. I had BB for over 4 years and it was a major move for me and I do miss certain aspects of the BB (including the fantastic facebook application). I do however love the faster OS on the Iphone, and I have even grown to love the touch typing. The Iphone isn't perfect, but due to the nature of software updates is evolving at a much faster pace than the BB. I will not go back to BB as I can't leave my touch screen, photo album (which I can view quickly...on the BB it was so slow I gave up keeping photos on there), and ease of use. If however BB came out with a superior product then I would consider it.

In conclusion, I am new to Apple and I can honestly say it was a smart move for me. Price is still a problem for me on laptops, but since my one is an old processor and is still working quicker than most of the entry level PC's I can buy and am in no hurry to change it.

sfoalex

Jun 18, 2008, 02:25 PM

Not a problem.

In the end I think Apple will do well. But (and this is in regards to the other post you made) the iPhone won't gain more traction until they offer a version without a camera. There are plenty of people in the various three letter agencies that would love to use the iPhone but the strict camera phone policy is killing those plans. Plus Apple will need to make a CDMA version as Verizon is pretty popular in the government (I have no clue why that is).

And offer it with more carriers. That whole sole source stuff is messy (how do you get three quotes for a product where only one vendor carries it?).

Considering Apple has made specific hardware for the education market, I would expect they make a specific version for any large agency.

Though I am an AT&T customer, I don't discount Verizon's CDMA technology. TDMA based technologies essentially create specific sized pipes for bandwidth. They assume a one size fits all approach to bandwidth allocation. They are not dynamic and it's too bad, because CDMA is my humble opinion is a superior technology. Yeah, you can say TDMA was AT&T and Cingular is is really GSM, but GSM is really a hyped up TDMA. CDMA can handle more with less infrastructure. If iPhone was available on Verizon, I would consider switching to it. What holds me back from Verizon is their lack of respect for their clients. Locking features is unacceptable. But my friends swear by them. The thing is, I live and travel to San Francisco, New York, Las Vegas, L.A., and if I go over seas, I am supported. In every location I am in, I am supported. So I don't have a real problem with AT&T. I never have, so I never saw a reason to use Verizon.

Alex

sfoalex

Jun 18, 2008, 02:27 PM

Given Apple's P/E is 37 everything you say about RIMM applies to them as well.

So you think a P/E of 37 is comparable to a P/E of 67? Interesting point of view I am sure no one else shares. But good luck with that.

Alex

Archie-

Jun 18, 2008, 02:58 PM

So you think a P/E of 37 is comparable to a P/E of 67? Interesting point of view I am sure no one else shares. But good luck with that.

Alex

Didn't Apple have a 40%+ "correction" and recovered? I thought once you have a correction "its near impossible to rise up again".

sfoalex

Jun 18, 2008, 03:10 PM

Didn't Apple have a 40%+ "correction" and recovered? I thought once you have a correction "its near impossible to rise up again".

Hence the word, "nearly". The difference is, Apple had a runaway successful product, i.e. the iPod, which really brought them back in a big way. Before the iPod, Apple's Macintosh sales had dropped below 2% of the worldwide market. The unit count was essentially under 880k per quarter. After the iPod, the unit count rose to over 2 million per quarter. Hence the halo affect you hear about.

Apple had a rare success that really helped them out. They have essentially several businesses now. Music, Computers, and now perhaps handsets.

So I put the question back to you. If RIM proves to become a failure in the handset market, which other business do they have to rescue them?

Alex

friekunater

Jun 19, 2008, 10:51 AM

friekunater

Jun 19, 2008, 11:13 AM

also, Porsche Dutch (POR3.de I think) had a stock price of over $1130 for about a week or so but in a few days it sunk to ~$150... what was that about?

sfoalex

Jun 19, 2008, 11:14 AM

sfoalex, I was reading your posts and I think what you have been saying is very interesting...

about RIM's correction, why wasn't the correction the drop in February? I see the prices were going up steeply and it dropped suddenly... could there be more than one "correction"?

It all depends on your point of view. Let me explain what a correction is in greater detail. If you look at RIM today, you see that about the time the iPhone came out interest grew tremendously. When I owned my last BlackBerry they had some record quarter of 3.4 million new signups in one quarter. That's a very high number. Consider that Apple has only sold 6 million units thus far, and RIM had 3.4 million new members in just a single quarter. It's a dramatic uptake to be sure. The following quarter, RIM did it again. They had another 3 plus million new signups.

So in the last 6 months RIM has matched Apple's entire year for unit sales. If you look at nothing but the smart phone market, they are currently out-pacing Apple by a wide margin. So those that say I am baseless do indeed have a foundation on which to stand on, though none of them have even decided to use this particular information against my comments. Shows how little they know.

But what of the correction? How is I can sit and say RIM is about to lose something when they are out pacing Apple so easily?

Well, that's exactly what I think will throw off just about any analyst, and for sure any BB fans, supporters, whatever.

Here is the nuts and bolts of the situation as I see it.

When you show record growth, wall street rewards you so long as your forecast shows you expect the same or more of it. That single statement is a fact. It is what props up a stock in a nutshell. Why do companies report record profits and their stocks fall? Two reasons. 1. profit taking. 2. they forecast that the next quarter is not going to be as great as this current quarter. Translated into wall street speak, they are saying the value of the company is going to go down slightly in over the next quarter. Remember a fundamental. The stock performance "is" the value of a company at that time. It's a snap shot. A lot of people here likely don't realize that fact. Apple's stock price today, RIMs, Microsoft, any one of them. What ever the trade is today, is what the companies "now" estimated value is considering everything. That means, current rate of growth, existing customers, good will, etc etc.

A correction is pretty simple. It's when we see a shift. For example, let's say that today, this morning in fact, we believe RIM is staying the course. Then a P/E of 67 is okay. But if tomorrow Apple said, gosh we shipped 10 million units. And RIM said we shipped 2 million down from 3.4 last quarter. If that were to happen, the estimates would all change immediately. And that is a correction. It's when you look at any stock and say, oh, the facts have changed. Here is what we believe it to be now.

So if you believe as I do that RIM has reached their peak, then they have no where to go but down. I believe this. This is my opinion in a nut shell. I believe with iPhone and Android, and Microsoft, I believe RIM will either level, or drop. Actually, I believe they will drop.

Does that make sense?

Best,

Alex

friekunater

Jun 19, 2008, 11:21 AM

sfoalex

Jun 19, 2008, 11:51 AM

yeah that makes perfect sense... why did RIM's stock prices actually go up after the announcement and through the release of the iPhone? surely no one expected RIM to benefit from a new competitor being introduced?

You'd think so. I would have thought the same. However, RIM announced the would beat estimates and they saw no slow down. They even said they felt Apple's announcement would raise interest. And RIM made good on this 2 quarters in a row.

I simply feel that the climate will change. RIM developing a touch screen and announcing a fund tells me RIM is at least a little bit worried.

Alex

friekunater

Jun 19, 2008, 11:58 AM

lol yeah I find it funny how BB fans are saying how much the iPhone sucks yet RIM's starting to copy whatever Apple does and all the BB fans are all excited about Thunder

surferfromuk

Jun 19, 2008, 01:05 PM

If Apple was in a martial arts fight with RIM then last year they turned up out of nowhere and chopped RIM in the face.

Winmo sat in the corner quivering as the two heavyweights came to blows. Winmo briefly considered using his gun to shoot them both in the back - unfortunately for Winmo lots of people are watching and there is no way Winmo would get away with it so all he can do is stay quiet.

RIM fell back a little but then came back for more. Apple are now currently flying through mid air in a prone Bruce Lee like attack position ( think Enter the Dragon).

On July 11th Apple's foot will connect with RIM's neck and there will be a small snapping sound. RIM will stumble about for a few months and then fall to the floor. If RIM is lucky medics may be able to holster the broken neck and RIM may live on, but RIM will never be back in the ring taking a flying drop kick with the big boys.

Windows mobile of course will now try to pull out his gun and shoot Apple in the back whilst everyone is watching RIM being stretchered off. Fortunately, Apple has been in a battle with Windows before and knows just what a low down sneaky rat he is and so will simply let rip a throwing star when Winmo shows his gun. The throwing star will whizz silently across the room and slot neatly between Winmo's eyes. The crowd will roar with approval when Winmo hits the ground in a puff of dust...

Damm - did I just write that ?

sfoalex

Jun 19, 2008, 01:17 PM

lol yeah I find it funny how BB fans are saying how much the iPhone sucks yet RIM's starting to copy whatever Apple does and all the BB fans are all excited about Thunder

It's understandable. I have over a hundred posts on the BlackBerryForum supporting the BB. I've said very nice things about that product. Had Apple not released an iPhone, I'd likely still be saying nice things about it, though the Treo does have a few features that I wish the BB had. The BB is a good product, but it's also a very simple product.

My favorite app for it is ToDoMatrix. I have since switched to OmniFocus which I have to admit I like much much more. And the OmniGroup is releasing a synced version for the iPhone. In a nutshell, I don't think RIM has any software that will hold up against the iPhone. About six months ago I wanted a database app for the BB. I finally found this database app that had customized screens, an IDE for developing their own look and feel the way you can with FileMakerPro or Access. After spending $79 for it, I found that the manual was written for Palm and Windows Mobile. The developers had merely ported the database guts over to the BB and nothing else. No interface, no nothing. All that was available was the native cell view. There are essentially two big places that sell BB software. I purchased from one of those places, and after I got the actually developer to admit the manual was completely wrong, and the product description of what we were buying was grossly wrong, I was refunded my money. I later found Ascendo Data Vault, which is essentially an electronic wallet. I convinced the developers that it would be a good idea if I could send records via email. The app has 10 fields that can be customized. So I made templates for basic things I needed a database for, and used DataVault to email the records as needed. So for example, I had FTP accounts for all my clients. If they needed to know how to log into the FTP server, I merely looked up their record, and emailed it to them. It worked out fairly well, but wasn't exactly what I had wanted.

JiveTalk is a very good BB IM app. And they have spell checkers, etc. But as a writer, I love to carry a large dictionary around. On the Treo, I had a 320,000 word oxford dictionary. It could be installed in the expanded memory card. On the BlackBerry, installing such a large dictionary took so much memory that when I tried to add an office app of just 1 MB, it acted very strangely, crashed my BB, and actually messed up the display characteristics of the interface. Removing the dictionary removed the problems.

The BB makes for a poor Enterprise device. That's conflicts with everything everyone has ever said, but when I see a truth, I don't much care of the 6 billion people on Earth agree with me. The fact is, it has so limited a memory set, it's strength is really in just it's limited text email. Everything else is beyond what RIM had designed it for.

iPhone and the new way of thinking.

The iPhone on the other hand is designed from the ground up to be a platform. That salesforce.com demo knocked my socks off. It showed just what was possible in terms of new Enterprise software for a mobile platform. RIM in its current state couldn't offer anything like that. They simply don't have the foundation for it. My feeling is that there is plenty more great software coming to the iPhone. And that this software will become a differentiator. Enterprise will begin to understand the opportunity that has fundamentally changed in mobile computing. When they reach this epiphany their interest in the BlackBerry will begin to wane. The buzz, the opportunity, the development, and the clout of Apple will rise until it reaches the inflection in which the tern Enterprise Mobile becomes redefined, and BlackBerry is no longer part of it.

This may sound far fetched. But good software is what makes a platform truly great. I don't see RIm being able to make software the rivals what will be offered on the iPhone. I just don't see it. And email along won't be enough. Customers will begin to expect more.

Alex

If Apple was in a martial arts fight with RIM then last year they turned up out of nowhere and chopped RIM in the face.

Winmo sat in the corner quivering as the two heavyweights came to blows. Winmo briefly considered using his gun to shoot them both in the back - unfortunately for Winmo lots of people are watching and there is no way Winmo would get away with it so all he can do is stay quiet.

RIM fell back a little but then came back for more. Apple are now currently flying through mid air in a prone Bruce Lee like attack position ( think Enter the Dragon).

On July 11th Apple's foot will connect with RIM's neck and there will be a small snapping sound. RIM will stumble about for a few months and then fall to the floor. If RIM is lucky medics may be able to holster the broken neck and RIM may live on, but RIM will never be back in the ring taking a flying drop kick with the big boys.

Windows mobile of course will now try to pull out his gun and shoot Apple in the back whilst everyone is watching RIM being stretchered off. Fortunately, Apple has been in a battle with Windows before and knows just what a low down sneaky rat he is and so will simply let rip a throwing star when Winmo shows his gun. The throwing star will whizz silently across the room and slot neatly between Winmo's eyes. The crowd will roar with approval when Winmo hits the ground in a puff of dust...

Damm - did I just write that ?

Well, Microsoft sold Apple a crowbar in which to whack RIM with. Hang on, there is a tiny inscription engraved on the base of the bar. Oh okay, it says, ActiveSync. But more seriously, I think of the customer base as a moving car. It moves forward creating a lot of momentum. Even if a dramatic course change is made, there is so much momentum that going forward is inevitable for at least a while longer.

Technically the course change I have predicted is still just a prediction. But I believe it to take place soon. And I believe that RIM will go forward a while longer as a result of pure momentum. But I do feel a course corrections is inevitable. And I am of the opinion that RIM will suffer at the hands of Apple, Google, and Microsoft.

Alex

megfilmworks

Jun 20, 2008, 06:17 PM

Definition of a good read:

Any post by sfoalex.

friekunater

Jun 20, 2008, 06:30 PM

thought so too lol...

so sfoalex... what do you think about the current state of the US economy?
:):)

DP-Paris

Mar 20, 2009, 08:29 AM

I have an iPhone, which I rate as an internet enabled gadget, but do not really like as a phone (I often scream at it). In my opinion it is not great for sending emails (though good for reading them), texts etc. The lack of copy and paste is just sooo bad (though I hear that will be in version 3.0 of the OS). I love using it to read ebooks, listening to music and playing galcon:) Battery dies quickly when using it though, which is not great.

Touch screen just does not do it for me when typing. I type in French and English, sometimes mixing the 2 languages in the same text/email. The predictive text on the iPhone makes it almost impossible to use. I do not need predictive text on the BB as it is easier type without error.

I do like the visual voice mail though, a nice feature.

I have a blackberry for work, which I love for emails and making calls. I consider to be the best 'phone with email functionality' I have ever had. I do not use it for anything else though. The battery lasts for a very long time, which is very important if you are out for the day meeting clients etc etc. I would not trust my iphone battery to last for half a day if I had to use it as much as the Blackberry for email.

FFR

Mar 20, 2009, 09:13 AM

Touch screen just does not do it for me when typing. I type in French and English, sometimes mixing the 2 languages in the same text/email. The predictive text on the iPhone makes it almost impossible to use. I do not need predictive text on the BB as it is easier type without error.

I type in french and english too. The iphone is the only device i have used that lets me switch keyboards and predictive text with the click of a button.

DP-Paris

Mar 20, 2009, 09:23 AM

I type in french and english too. The iphone is the only device i have used that lets me switch keyboards and predictive text with the click of a button.

If you remember to hit the button. I usually type the word, realise I forgot, delete it, hit the button, continue to to type in English, forget the button again, delete, hit the button and on and on. Not great really.

I do not need to switch keyboards when I use my blackberry....

Evev12

Mar 20, 2009, 09:47 AM

Absolutely not, actually quite the opposite I think - I think a vast majority of the iphone community have a complex of thinking that what they have is the best. Why would it be an inferiority complex when they can just go out and buy the same phone...it's the same price! Is the iphone better for my needs, yes. Is that to say it's better for everyone's needs? I know a bunch of people that HAD iphones, got rid of them and LOVE their BB's. You really can't say that it's an inferiority complex though. That's what gives us iphone users bad names and makes everyone think that it's simply phone for kids. At the very most maybe they're jealous of some of the applications that we have, just as I wish we had some of the apps the Android has, but that doesn't mean I think one phone is better than the next. It's all subjective.

FFR

Mar 20, 2009, 10:15 AM

If you remember to hit the button. I usually type the word, realise I forgot, delete it, hit the button, continue to to type in English, forget the button again, delete, hit the button and on and on. Not great really.

I do not need to switch keyboards when I use my blackberry....

The button is next to the space bar.

Kardashian

Mar 20, 2009, 10:32 AM

I don't understand why they are obsessed with the iPhone, but the constant whining about and trashing it makes me think they are jealous, have an inferiority complex, or they are simply sore losers.

No.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

And again, no love.

I am a very big Apple fan. For the past 7/8 years, since I was about 13, I won't use anything other than an Apple computer. I change my computer the day a new model comes out. I have purchased every model of iPod from the iPod 3rd, to the Mini, the Colour, the Video, the Nano, the classic, and back to the new Nano.

I purchased a 1st gen iPhone and loved it. It had its problems, but it served me well for what I needed (a phone, and an iPod, this was before the time of the App Store etc).

Then I purchased a 3G iPhone because, well, it was new.Sure, it had exciting features that were new and noteworthy. But, in all of my life, I have never experienced such a problematic item. I had the yellow screen tint, headphone jacks hanging off, warped casings, chrome bezels not working, cracking and scratches, then there was the freezing up, the 'amazing' Push service, and the forever-crashing Facebook.

I decided to switch over to the BlackBerry because I was bored, bored of the problems, and bored of waiting for things that were promised or expected, but never came.

So, what am I saying?

I'm saying that not all BlackBerry users bash the iPhone. Yes, I had monumental problems with all 6 of my 3G iPhones, but the first iPhone was a marvel, and made a true impact on all forms of technology, earning hundreds of millions of pounds.

It comes down to choice. I now choose BlackBerry. Why? For me, it works better. I cannot fault its e-mail functionality, networking, or reliability. Plus, the social side of things. A lot of my friends are part of the Crackberry lifestyle, and we all use each others PINs to communicate on BBM. I couldn't live without having a keyboard. I can look at someone whilst having a conversation with them, and fire off messages without needing to look at what I'm pressing - something I can't do with the iPhone.

I hate how RIM has tried to become more 'trendy' - butting into the touchscreen market (which BTW, that Storm is horrendous), and the flip phone market. I like my BlackBerry Bold for being candybar, large screen, and full QWERTY. BlackBerry is all about this - not bells and whistles.

But at the same time, I hate how people are trying to say the iPhone is going to take over RIM in the business market. No, no, no. It just won't happen!

I might go back to the iPhone one day, and I might not.

Stop taking it so personally!

It's a phone. It's not gonna die out because a few people on a BlackBerry forum bash it - in the same way you have started a thread, not even bashing BlackBerry devices, but bashing its user' (obsession-ridden, suffering an inferiority complex? Please Dr. Phil, get over yourself).

Fact is, when it comes to e-mail and the business market, BlackBerry was greatest, when Apple tried to penetrate that market, of course it got BB users' backs up. It's competition. It's all good business.

Just get over it. People get passionate about their devices, and its this passion that causes companies like Apple and RIM to make better devices.

However, you really shouldn't include me as a BlackBerry user in the 'obsessive inferiority-complex box, thank you.

Kardashian

Mar 20, 2009, 10:40 AM

Considering Apple has made specific hardware for the education market, I would expect they make a specific version for any large agency.

Do they? When did they make an iPhone for a specific company?

They tailored eMac's and iMacs for edu, but they don't anymore (TMK)

Kardashian

Mar 20, 2009, 10:44 AM

On July 11th Apple's foot will connect with RIM's neck and there will be a small snapping sound. RIM will stumble about for a few months and then fall to the floor. If RIM is lucky medics may be able to holster the broken neck and RIM may live on, but RIM will never be back in the ring taking a flying drop kick with the big boys.

You're deluded. Do you realise how many organisations, businesses, companies and personal users RIM has? I'm not bashing the iPhone here at all, for all you major PMT-suffering iPhone lovers, I'm just saying, RIM has a MASSIVE user base. They're not just going to topple because of the release of ONE iPhone.

I can't stand using solely touchscreen. I would need a keyboard in addition to the touchscreen for texting/e-mailing - and many business/hardcore users are the same. Not just RIM users, but any user.

Remember, Apple were late in the mobile phone game. When it came to the iPod, which lets face it, brought them back to life, they were the spearhead of the whole MP3 market - they invented the game.

The iPhone has very good market share, but RIM won't disappear over night, nor do I want it too. (And nor do I want the iPhone too).

They both serve their purpose.

I love my BlackBerry Bold and my UMBP. :)

Damm - did I just write that ?

Unfortunately, you did.