The things 90% of you are missing about the $30/mo

[CrazEtooN]

EDIT (everything above the line and in bold is the "edit"): I wanted to add a few things in reference to peoples comments. I am aware that there are people using PDA/Smartphones with the lesser MEdiaNet packages. If you recently started doing this, you are breaking At&t's rules. I understand that data is data, but they don't allow for MEdiaNet plans on smartphones and PDAs. It has been this way since the inception of 3G on their network, to the best of my understanding. If you walk into an At&t store and buy any PDA from the EDGE only Palm Centro to the 3G Tilt, they will make you get the $30 data plan. If you request the MEdiaNet plan, they won't let you do it.

If you are an older, existing customer that has had a data plan that includes texts from "once upon a time," you are special. If you were to sign a new contract, that would go away. You are just lucky enough to have held on to something they no longer offer the current purchasers of PDAs and smartphones. It may have been offered once, but it isn't any longer, and it has nothing to do with the present situation.

I was trying to keep this all simple, hence my simplified explanations, because there is enough confusion surrounding this as is. I guess I couldn't keep it that way...
_________________________________________


If this only gets through to a handful of the hundreds of complainers, I will be happy... Someone needs to try, and I haven't seen this thread done yet, so here goes nothing.... (copy of something I said in the middle of another topic)

What nobody seems to understand is that the $30 is not specifically tied to the 3G speeds.

For the love of God, why can't you understand that all At&t BlackBerry and PDA data plans start at $30 a month with NO text messages included?? The original iPhone received special data pricing because it was so expensive to buy and because there was a revenue share between Apple and At&t.

The revenue share is gone.

The price is now subsidized.

This means that the special treatment the previous iPhone got is gone. It is now being priced the EXACT SAME WAY as ALL their other smartphones and PDAs!!!!!!

If you have a BlackBerry Curve, there is no 3G for you because it is an EDGE only device. Guess what, $30/mo data plan, no texts included.

If you have the 3G capable At&t Tilt, there is 3G for if you live in a 3G area. Guess what, $30/mo data plan, no texts included.

If you have that same 3G capable Tilt and live in an EDGE only area, you can only use it over EDGE. Guess what, $30/mo data plan, no texts included. (regardless of being in a 3G area, or an EDGE area, the Tilt data plan is $30/mo. Same plan, doesn't matter where you live or what coverage you can get. I know I am just repeating what I said, but I just want to be sure it is absolutely understood ;), so I am adding this blurb)

THE PRICE IS NOT SOLELY TO THE 3G!!! There are more factors to it, and your coverage area doesn't matter, never has.

This has become one of the most pathetic strings of complaints I have ever seen. Try to understand the following:

-iPhone releases in June 2007 for $599 and $499.
-Apple and At&t have a revenue sharing agreement, so Apple has more control over the plan pricing.
-Due to cost and said agreement, the phone is given a special break and is not put on a standard, $30/mo PDA data plan. It is instead given the same plan type as a normal flip phone. This plan is called the MEdiaMax plan, even though it is not branded as such for the iPhone. Look it up on At&t's website if you doubt this.

Fast forward a year

-iPhone 3G comes out on July 11th.
-iPhone receives subsidized pricing this time around.
-Revenue sharing agreement is gone. Due to this fact, and the subsidized pricing, At&t takes the iPhone out of the special data pricing bracket it formally was in and places it into the PDA bracket where it always should have been. Apple has no say over this because the revenue sharing is gone.

Are you getting this now? Can you see it?

It is not the work of the devil. It is not Jobs trying to eat your soul. It is not At&t trying to steal your first born. It is simply At&t pricing the iPhone data in accordance with all their other PDA/smartphones.

The last point is that the negative press may actually cause a change before July 11th.

Just calm down and see what happens. If nothing changes, and you don't want to pay it, don't buy the damned phone, but please stop making asinine complaints about it.

[todd2000]

I don't have an iPhone, but well said! It is also cheaper then some other carriers for Unlimited Data.

[camarobh]

If this only gets through to a handful of the hundreds of complainers, I will be happy... Someone needs to try, and I haven't seen this thread done yet, so here goes nothing.... (copy of something I said in the middle of another topic)

What nobody seems to understand is that the $30 is not specifically tied to the 3G speeds.

For the love of God, why can't you understand that all At&t BlackBerry and PDA data plans start at $30 a month with NO text messages included?? The original iPhone received special data pricing because it was so expensive to buy and because there was a revenue share between Apple and At&t.

The revenue share is gone.

The price is now subsidized.

This means that the special treatment the previous iPhone got is gone. It is now being priced the EXACT SAME WAY as ALL their other smartphones and PDAs!!!!!!

If you have a BlackBerry Curve, there is no 3G for you because it is an EDGE only device. Guess what, $30/mo data plan, no texts included.

If you have the 3G capable At&t Tilt, there is 3G for if you live in a 3G area. Guess what, $30/mo data plan, no texts included.

If you have that same 3G capable Tilt and live in an EDGE only area, you can only use it over EDGE. Guess what, $30/mo data plan, no texts included.

THE PRICE IS NOT JUST TIED TO THE 3G!!!

This has become one of the most pathetic strings of complaints I have ever seen. Try to understand the following:

-iPhone releases in June 2007 for $599 and $499.
-Apple and At&t have a revenue sharing agreement, so Apple has more control over the plan pricing.
-Due to cost and said agreement, the phone is given a special break and is not put on a standard, $30/mo PDA data plan. It is instead given the same plan type as a normal flip phone. This plan is called the MEdiaMax plan, even though it is not branded as such for the iPhone. Look it up on At&t's website if you doubt this.

Fast forward a year

-iPhone 3G comes out on July 11th.
-iPhone receives subsidized pricing this time around.
-Revenue sharing agreement is gone. Due to this fact, and the subsidized pricing, At&t takes the iPhone out of the special data pricing bracket it formally was in and places it into the PDA bracket where it always should have been. Apple has no say over this because the revenue sharing is gone.

Are you getting this now? Can you see it?

It is not the work of the devil. It is not Jobs trying to eat your soul. It is not At&t trying to steal your first born. It is simply At&t pricing the iPhone data in accordance with all their other PDA/smartphones.

The last point is that the negative press may actually cause a change before July 11th.

Just calm down and see what happens. If nothing changes, and you don't want to pay it, don't buy the damned phone, but please stop making asinine complaints about it.

Amen.

[rotobadger]

Hmm...actually some good points here. For me it's not the extra $15 per month that bugs me it's that AT&T is forcing you to sign a new contract for a hardware change. NO other carrier does that. I have the option of walking into the retail store, picking out any phone and paying full retail (not that I would...I just could) and putting it on my current plan. If AT&T gave me the option of paying, say, $500 for the new iPhone and keeping my current plan rather than getting the cheaper (subsidized) phone and "resetting" my contract I would choose the former. Again, I would not mind the rate change I just hate to be locked in for another two years.

But, again, I see your points.

[nickXedge]

If this only gets through to a handful of the hundreds of complainers, I will be happy... Someone needs to try, and I haven't seen this thread done yet, so here goes nothing.... (copy of something I said in the middle of another topic)

What nobody seems to understand is that the $30 is not specifically tied to the 3G speeds.

For the love of God, why can't you understand that all At&t BlackBerry and PDA data plans start at $30 a month with NO text messages included?? The original iPhone received special data pricing because it was so expensive to buy and because there was a revenue share between Apple and At&t.

The revenue share is gone.

The price is now subsidized.

This means that the special treatment the previous iPhone got is gone. It is now being priced the EXACT SAME WAY as ALL their other smartphones and PDAs!!!!!!

If you have a BlackBerry Curve, there is no 3G for you because it is an EDGE only device. Guess what, $30/mo data plan, no texts included.

If you have the 3G capable At&t Tilt, there is 3G for if you live in a 3G area. Guess what, $30/mo data plan, no texts included.

If you have that same 3G capable Tilt and live in an EDGE only area, you can only use it over EDGE. Guess what, $30/mo data plan, no texts included.

THE PRICE IS NOT JUST TIED TO THE 3G!!!

This has become one of the most pathetic strings of complaints I have ever seen. Try to understand the following:

-iPhone releases in June 2007 for $599 and $499.
-Apple and At&t have a revenue sharing agreement, so Apple has more control over the plan pricing.
-Due to cost and said agreement, the phone is given a special break and is not put on a standard, $30/mo PDA data plan. It is instead given the same plan type as a normal flip phone. This plan is called the MEdiaMax plan, even though it is not branded as such for the iPhone. Look it up on At&t's website if you doubt this.

Fast forward a year

-iPhone 3G comes out on July 11th.
-iPhone receives subsidized pricing this time around.
-Revenue sharing agreement is gone. Due to this fact, and the subsidized pricing, At&t takes the iPhone out of the special data pricing bracket it formally was in and places it into the PDA bracket where it always should have been. Apple has no say over this because the revenue sharing is gone.

Are you getting this now? Can you see it?

It is not the work of the devil. It is not Jobs trying to eat your soul. It is not At&t trying to steal your first born. It is simply At&t pricing the iPhone data in accordance with all their other PDA/smartphones.

The last point is that the negative press may actually cause a change before July 11th.

Just calm down and see what happens. If nothing changes, and you don't want to pay it, don't buy the damned phone, but please stop making asinine complaints about it.

Very well put. But be careful, if you make well-thought out statements like this that are true, you might end up on FoxNews as a rebel.

Thank you for saying it. I agree 100%. And for crying out loud, if you bought an iPhone ever or are buying one now and the extra $10 a month breaks your bank account, you should not own an iPhone. Get a razr.

[citron230]

finally someone who isnt complaining about the price.

[CrazEtooN]

Hmm...actually some good points here. For me it's not the extra $15 per month that bugs me it's that AT&T is forcing you to sign a new contract for a hardware change. NO other carrier does that. I have the option of walking into the retail store, picking out any phone and paying full retail (not that I would...I just could) and putting it on my current plan. If AT&T gave me the option of paying, say, $500 for the new iPhone and keeping my current plan rather than getting the cheaper (subsidized) phone and "resetting" my contract I would choose the former. Again, I would not mind the rate change I just hate to be locked in for another two years.

But, again, I see your points.

Yes, that is a different story altogether. I am just trying to break through the wall of ignorance surrounding the data pricing though.

[mark34]

there is sign of intelligent life out there... excellent

[NAG]

Hmm...actually some good points here. For me it's not the extra $15 per month that bugs me it's that AT&T is forcing you to sign a new contract for a hardware change. NO other carrier does that.

Wrong. Every time you get a new phone using a subsidy you have to sign a new contract. It works that way for every carrier on the planet.

[admanimal]

Wrong. Every time you get a new phone using a subsidy you have to sign a new contract. It works that way for every carrier on the planet.

That's not what he was saying. Every other phone that you can get a subsidized discount on can also be purchased at full price without a new contract. This does not appear to be the case with the iPhone.

[NAG]

Nope, doesn't work that way in the US. Plenty of phones that are locked to a carrier. Will be nice if the US government stops this junk some day.

[rotobadger]

Wrong. Every time you get a new phone using a subsidy you have to sign a new contract. It works that way for every carrier on the planet.

Take a look at my post again (maybe my fault for not being too clear). If I walk in to, say, Verizon and pick up a phone and pay full retail to add it to my current contract, my contract will not be "re-set". The iPhone is not officially "subsidized" meaning I do not have the option to pay full retail and simply continue on with my current contract. If you want the new iPhone you HAVE to sign a new contract. The subsidizing of phones is designed to entice folks to sign new contracts rather than selling their first born for a full reatail Blackberry.

Edit: Just read your post. I am referring to buying a phone and staying with the same carrier you currently have a contract with.

[admanimal]

Nope, doesn't work that way in the US. Plenty of phones that are locked to a carrier. Will be nice if the US government stops this junk some day.

Huh, what does being locked to a carrier have to do with it? I live in the U.S. too, and whenever you want you are free to walk into an AT&T store, buy any phone you want for full price, and replace another phone on your account with it.

[BrokenE]

CrazE, good point. I don't have a 3G phone now, but have been waiting for the upgraded 3G i-phone. My main reason for the purchase is to replace my 4G nano since I now have more than 4Gs of music and find it a PITA to select and deselect songs. And oh gee, somehow I lost my phone recently and now I have to get a replacement phone :D. Seriously I did loose my phone, but i can't say i've been "desperately" looking for it either.

Anyhow, it's good to see that AT&T is not taking advantage as others have reported.

Thanks for the info.

[NAG]

Take a look at my post again (maybe my fault for not being too clear). If I walk in to, say, Verizon and pick up a phone and pay full retail to add it to my current contract, my contract will not be "re-set". The iPhone is not officially "subsidized" meaning I do not have the option to pay full retail and simply continue on with my current contract. If you want the new iPhone you HAVE to sign a new contract. The subsidizing of phones is designed to entice folks to sign new contracts rather than selling their first born for a full reatail Blackberry.

Edit: Just read your post. I am referring to buying a phone and staying with the same carrier you currently have a contract with.

Yeah, I'm just calling bull on the iPhone not being subsidized.

8gb iPod Touch = $299
8gb iPhone 3G = $199

Huh? There is obviously some sort of subsidy program going on here.

[D3lta]

Well put, didn't think of it this way.

[Small White Car]

This means that the special treatment the previous iPhone got is gone.

Gee, people had a special deal, and now they don't.

And you somehow seemed shocked that people are complaining about that?

What, exactly, would make you think that people wouldn't complain if something is taken away from them. Haven't you been here long?

[CrazEtooN]

I hope this thread doesn't debase into an uncontrollable argument from this point forward, but I am very happy to see even this much agreement and understanding. Here's to hoping it continues...

[NAG]

It isn't being taken away. The first gen iPhones get the same deal as always. The new iPhones just don't get that deal.

[admanimal]

Yeah, I'm just calling bull on the iPhone not being subsidized.

8gb iPod Touch = $299
8gb iPhone 3G = $199

Huh? There is obviously some sort of subsidy program going on here.

No one is doubting the iPhone being subsidized. (Edit:...ok he did say he didn't think that it was officially being "subsidized")

All he is trying to say is that there is no option to pay full price (say $500 or whatever) and add the phone to an existing contract like you can with any other phone.

[CrazEtooN]

Gee, people had a special deal, and now they don't.

And you somehow seemed shocked that people are complaining about that?

What, exactly, would make you think that people wouldn't complain if something is taken away from them. Haven't you been here long?

I spoke too soon...

I am not shocked at the complaining, I am shocked at the misunderstanding. I am just trying to help people get a better idea at why it happened so they will stop throwing the blame all over the place, so they will stop making asinine comments about the evilness of Apple and At&t, and further so they will stop acting like it is the end of the world.

[Small White Car]

It isn't being taken away. The first gen iPhones get the same deal as always. The new iPhones just don't get that deal.

It's being taken away as an option.

Sorry, I thought that was clear but I guess I should have finished the sentence to the very end.

[Small White Car]

I am just trying to help people get a better idea at why it happened so they will stop throwing the blame all over the place

Well, it's a nice idea, but you get the same thing over the fact that there's no front-facing camera. Now, I thought it was obvious that that rumor wasn't true, but apparently it wasn't obvious.

My point is, when you have people complaining about stuff like that I don't think there's any hope of diffusing them with long, logical posts.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying you're preaching to the choir.

[NAG]

No one is doubting the iPhone being subsidized. (Edit:...ok he did say he didn't think that it was officially being "subsidized")

All he is trying to say is that there is no option to pay full price (say $500 or whatever) and add the phone to an existing contract like you can with any other phone.

There are phones that are carrier restricted at launch and thus require a contract of some sort. The iPhone is subsidized even if they're trying to pretend it isn't "officially" subsidized and having phones locked to a carrier isn't new.

People complained when Apple tried to break the mold and get rid of subsidies and now they're complaining when they do it to lower the initial price. Make up your mind.

[rotobadger]

There are phones that are carrier restricted at launch and thus require a contract of some sort. The iPhone is subsidized even if they're trying to pretend it isn't "officially" subsidized and having phones locked to a carrier isn't new.

People complained when Apple tried to break the mold and get rid of subsidies and now they're complaining when they do it to lower the initial price. Make up your mind.

For the record I never complained about that. I complained about the lack of a fuschia colored iPhone. I complained about the lack of i-ray vision on the iPhone.

But not that.

[wako]

If you have a BlackBerry Curve, there is no 3G for you because it is an EDGE only device. Guess what, $30/mo data plan, no texts included.

If you have the 3G capable At&t Tilt, there is 3G for if you live in a 3G area. Guess what, $30/mo data plan, no texts included.

If you have that same 3G capable Tilt and live in an EDGE only area, you can only use it over EDGE. Guess what, $30/mo data plan, no texts included.

THE PRICE IS NOT JUST TIED TO THE 3G!!!


LOL!!!


Blackberries costs $30 dollars a month BECAUSE of the blackberry service. NOT because of the data plan. If you only wanted data on your phone to only use EDGE, you can pay for a service that costs 15-20 bucks. Its called MediaNet. It is also offered to phones that arent 3G capable.

And stop spreading FUD about the Tilt's data plan. You pay $30 a month because of the 3G service. PERIOD. If you arent in a 3G capable area you still are paying the SAME exact data plan which is for 3G. stop trying to make it sound like it is a different data plan when it isnt.

When AT&T hiked their data plans, from $20 bucks to $30 bucks it right when they launched their 3G service.

[CrazEtooN]

Well, it's a nice idea, but you get the same thing over the fact that there's no front-facing camera. Now, I thought it was obvious that that rumor wasn't true, but apparently it wasn't obvious.

My point is, when you have people complaining about stuff like that I don't think there's any hope of diffusing them with long, logical posts.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying you're preaching to the choir.

Very, sadly, true... I guess I am just a wide eyed optimist, lol. ;)

[admanimal]

LOL!!!

And stop spreading FUD about the Tilt's data plan. You pay $30 a month because of the 3G service. PERIOD. If you arent in a 3G capable area you still are paying the SAME exact data plan which is for 3G. stop trying to make it sound like it is a different data plan when it isnt.
.


Umm this is exactly what the OP was saying.

[skwoytek]

That's not what he was saying. Every other phone that you can get a subsidized discount on can also be purchased at full price without a new contract. This does not appear to be the case with the iPhone.


I don't think the iPhone is going to be a traditional case for subsidizing. $199 is the full price. The iPhone will be subsidized pre-retail and will simply appear in AT&T's stores as:



iPhone Retail Price $199.99

Total Due Today $199.99


In other words, in the U.S. AT&T will help offset some of the cost of the device to Apple through an initial payment per device, not to the customer. The iPhone's U.S. MSRP is $199. However, AT&T is the only authorized carrier so you have to go with them, it's listed as a requirement to using the U.S. iPhone on Apple's website.

Typical subsidizing is done to the consumer. And in AT&T's store it looks like:


Blackberry Retail Price $349.99
2-yr Contract Price $199.99

Total Due Today $199.99


If on July 11th AT&T actually lists the price as below then I think Apple is looking for some trouble.


iPhone Retail Price $399.99
2-yr Contract Price $199.99

Total Due Today $199.99


In Apple's retail store I think you'll see the same as their website: $199*
*Requires new 2-year AT&T rate plan, sold separately.

You will only pay $199 to Apple and won't sign a contract. But will be required to use AT&T's service. I don't know how they plan to enforce it, but the fact that AT&T says penalties will be charged to people who don't activate their iPhones within 30 days indicates that the out-the-door price will be $199.

Further proof of this negotiating, is that in the UK O2 is offering the 8GB iPhone for free (http://www.o2.co.uk/iphone/paymonthly). The £99 8GB iPhone is free with a tariff > £45. Therefore the iPhone is US$193 retail but subsidized to free. So for them it would appear as:



iPhone Retail Price £99 (US$193)
2-yr Contract Price free

Total Due Today free




In other words, Apple still worked some carrier deals to get the retail price to $199, anything below that is subsidized by the carrier to the customer...

_

[wako]

Umm this is exactly what the OP was saying.

he didnt state that the plans for the Tilt are the same despite if you are using 3G or not.

[admanimal]

Yeah I agree with everything you are saying, I was just sympathizing with the other guy who said that it is unfortunate that someone who is willing to pay more to add an iPhone to an existing AT&T account can't do so.

[CrazEtooN]

he didnt state that the plans for the Tilt are the same despite if you are using 3G or not.

Actually, that is exactly what I said...

[admanimal]

he didnt state that the plans for the Tilt are the same despite if you are using 3G or not.

Yes, he did:


If you have the 3G capable At&t Tilt, there is 3G for if you live in a 3G area. Guess what, $30/mo data plan, no texts included.

If you have that same 3G capable Tilt and live in an EDGE only area, you can only use it over EDGE. Guess what, $30/mo data plan, no texts included.

[NAG]

Makes sense. AT&T gets to claim their not subsidizing the phone by not paying for any of it but also not making any money off it outside of the monthly payments.

Apple profits off the phone, AT&T profits off the service plan.

Kind of a stupid loophole to claim it isn't subsidized.

[skwoytek]

Makes sense. AT&T gets to claim their not subsidizing the phone by not paying for any of it but also not making any money off it outside of the monthly payments.

Apple profits off the phone, AT&T profits off the service plan.

Kind of a stupid loophole to claim it isn't subsidized.


Exactly.

But just like in the UK, it's still possible that AT&T can subsidize the phone even lower, even free (doubtful in both cases) but Apple clearly isn't forbidding it based on what O2 is offering.

[wako]

Yes, he did:

he is saying if you have the same AT&T Tilt... thats a phone not a plan...


regardless, the point i am making is that the price changes has been universal throughout every carrier that the price hike is due to 3G.

[admanimal]

he is saying if you have the same AT&T Tilt... thats a phone not a plan...


regardless, the point i am making is that the price changes has been universal throughout every carrier that the price hike is due to 3G.

Well the good news is that you and the OP agree, whether you think so or not.

[Schmoe0013]

he is saying if you have the same AT&T Tilt... thats a phone not a plan...


regardless, the point i am making is that the price changes has been universal throughout every carrier that the price hike is due to 3G.

Do you like Rubber Cement? Because I know I love the fumes when I post!!

WAKA WAKA WAKA!:eek::eek::eek:

[CrazEtooN]

he is saying if you have the same AT&T Tilt... thats a phone not a plan...


regardless, the point i am making is that the price changes has been universal throughout every carrier that the price hike is due to 3G.

I was referring to the plan, not the phone. I wasn't insinuating that there are 2 different plans for the Tilt. Don't read things so literally man. Anyway, I made a special change to it just for you.

We essentially agree, I am just trying to keep things simple for the already confused masses. Relax, I am just trying to help...

[Michael CM1]

To the OP (I didn't want to copy the whole post, you know what you wrote!):

Your points are all good. I figured it was going to cost more for 3G. In fact, some guy wrote in a column that AT&T would probably charge $10 more for it many months ago.

I think it's just a lot of the playing around that's getting to some of us. "Oh, it's more afforadable!" I think those were Jobs' exact words, not "cheaper." The price is now spread out more. OK, it's a little bit more over 2 years. You get a faster speed (but WTF is up with no texts???). So that's not really the biggest gripe.

I think it's kind of hogwash to charge anybody the same price for EDGE as 3G. AT&T has tiered pricing for DSL speeds, so why not an EDGE plan and 3G plan? I live very near the edge (no pun intended) of the 3G area here. All the carriers may charge the same, but that doesn't make it right. A lot of it is a big, bright spotlight being shone upon a part of the wireless biz that wasn't popular until the past few years.

I also just wish that Steve would've had a little more candor about how the phone was getting cheaper. One thing that is now sticking out is the lack of a dock. I think I saw it will be $49 from now on. It's the whole premise of "it's easier to give people more stuff later than take it away once they have it."

Yanking away the iTunes activation has me a little perturbed as well. I don't really blame either Apple or AT&T as much as I do the unlocking crowd. They're the ones who forced that upon us. I REALLY don't like going to AT&T stores. They're a little like going to the airport and seeing people charge $15 for a hot dog. Their prices are almost never competitive with other stores, and their salespeople are great at referring you to wireless.att.com, but not much else.

I will probably end up buying on of these in the future, but not the near future. I have a GPS in my car that can't get updated, and the place I'm moving isn't even on maps.google.com (but is on the Maps app on iPhone). I like the 3G speed, but I'm not sold on that cost when the coverage area may not cover me. I also want a darn colored phone if I gotta have plastic. I understand the signal thing, but just black and white? Hopefully that'll be changed. They obviously had to hustle to get this stuff out this soon.

I think the keynote also annoyed some of us. Yeah, it's for people at the WWDC (developers!). It just felt like there was so little information that I gave a poot about. When Gen. Nerd (whoever the younger guy that hosted all the apps part) went on about APIs, I fast-forwarded through about an hour of software developers speaking another language. I was like "show me a frickin' Mac or something!"

I also thought the "Mobile Me" thing sounded a little Microsoftian (the name at least) and just didn't appeal to me personally. I think the rumors built up something that was more useful to me and would cost less. It sounds better than .Mac, but it's another $100 a year that I can easily avoid.

A lot of us just want to vent. I love to hate phone companies, and the AT&T plan stuff just kinda made me irate. They're not the only people that seem to not be interested in low-balling (why do plans start at $40???), but they're the devil I dance with.

[wako]

I was referring to the plan, not the phone. I wasn't insinuating that there are 2 different plans for the Tilt. Don't read things so literally man. Anyway, I made a special change to it just for you.

We essentially agree, I am just trying to keep things simple for the already confused masses. Relax, I am just trying to help...



*grabs his dunce hat*



sooo... i just found out we pretty much were arguing the same thing just that I didnt read the important lines because I was skimming :D


your post was long, dont hate :rolleyes:

[CrazEtooN]

*grabs his dunce hat*



sooo... i just found out we pretty much were arguing the same thing just that I didnt read the important lines because I was skimming :D


your post was long, dont hate :rolleyes:

Its all good, no worries.

[bloosqr]

I have the 8525 3G phone with ATT .. cingular had a 3G service that worked for that phone w/ 200 messages for $20 a month. I am still on that plan. When I added that contract (about a year or so ago) you basically had to go through hoops to get this to work. The blackberry plan was more at the time but now the PDA and blackberry plan are the same and they finally got rid of the "medianet" plan that allowed you to have 3G for $20. That said a lot of people (including me) currently have 3G/200 messages at $20 a month. An exroommate of mine has this on the tilt. We'll see what happens but for me basically it amounts to an almost doubling (35 versus 20) of the dataplan cost just to switch phones (instead of just swapping my sim out to a tilt as an upgrade instead) . I have a feeling it will be impossible to get att to let me keep my plan w/ the iphone, but I know I can just swap phones w/ non iphone phones. As much as I love my macs and as much as I really dislike WM, the phones monthlies are way too much to do the random surfing while waiting in line ... (which is all i use it for now)

[Mason1]

I only started wanting to get an iphone like a month before this announcment. So I waited to see what would happen with this...

since Ive never had one I could care less about this lack of features everyones wants, or the extra $10 a month bill. I am just as excited for this one as everybody was for the first one :apple:

[jjholly]

...

In other words, Apple still worked some carrier deals to get the retail price to $199, anything below that is subsidized by the carrier to the customer...

_

This is what I was thinking. Apple might be even making a loss and hoping to make that back with the app store or cheap components.

I hope this is true as ill be paying £99 for my pay as you go iPhone.:):)

[samiwas]

If this only gets through to a handful of the hundreds of complainers, I will be happy... Someone needs to try, and I haven't seen this thread done yet, so here goes nothing....

Can a mod ban this user? Please? He makes too much sense. :D

[CrazEtooN]

Can a mod ban this user? Please? He makes too much sense. :D

LOL... Thanks :D

[arnette]

Boo to ATT for their stupidly high prices.

Boo to Apple and Jobs for making everyone think that the cost of ownership of an iPhone is decreasing.

Yea to iPhone for having GPS.

I really really want to come up with a great reason to get 3G iPhone but I can't think of one. There are too many near-misses and most of the blame lies with ATT's stupidly high tariffs.

Gonna wait for BB Thunder release and Google Android on TMobile for a comparison and THEN I'll decide.

In America, you vote with your dollar.

[billyripkin]

What I don't like is that with the iPhone you get no corporate discounts and you HAVE to get the data plan it looks like with the 3G phone. I hope both of these are found to be false in the weeks ahead.

[skwoytek]

Boo to ATT for their stupidly high prices.

Boo to Apple and Jobs for making everyone think that the cost of ownership of an iPhone is decreasing.

Yea to iPhone for having GPS.

I really really want to come up with a great reason to get 3G iPhone but I can't think of one. There are too many near-misses and most of the blame lies with ATT's stupidly high tariffs.

Gonna wait for BB Thunder release and Google Android on TMobile for a comparison and THEN I'll decide.

In America, you vote with your dollar.

All data plans for all carriers in the U.S. are the same as the iPhones or higher, look at each carriers sites. The original iPhones rates were below normal, now they're just standard.

So the only differences now are how much you pay for the phone and the phone itself because you'll pay the same monthly rates across the board (more on Verizon).

[vega07]

sure the op makes sense.

BUT...

I don't want the data plan at all. why force it on me? I have wifi everywhere. I don't need visual voicemail. Even if the $30 price tag is industry standard, it really is still too expensive. My 6MBPS connection with AT&T costs $30 bucks for God's sake! Now I have to pay another $30 bucks. That's why I don't want to pay for it, especially when I'll probably only use it for 15 minutes per month.

I just want everything else the iPhone offers (GPS, apps, touchscreen, the list goes on...)

I wonder what would have happened if T-mobile was the carrier.

[apfhex]

One thing that is now sticking out is the lack of a dock. I think I saw it will be $49 from now on. It's the whole premise of "it's easier to give people more stuff later than take it away once they have it."
I noticed this too. WTF? What are you going to do with the phone if you don't have a dock to connect it to your Mac? So the real price (before the $70 minimum monthly rate) is $250 (if the dock is $50), unless I'm missing something or that information is wrong.

They're not the only people that seem to not be interested in low-balling (why do plans start at $40???), but they're the devil I dance with.
Agreed with the voice plans starting at $40/mo. It's literally thousands more minutes that I'm going to use but I don't have any choice (including switching, since T-mobile doesn't get acceptable service where I live).

I also don't live in a 3G coverage area (as far as I know... their 3G coverage map doesn't seem to work properly for me) so the $10 increase is kind of a waste of money — I still want the other things the new iPhone offers though, and maaaaybe 3G will come here eventually. But if there were the option to pay less for just EDGE, I would. Dropping the 200 SMS from the plan is also highly discouraging. I'm not a "txter" but I would like to send some from time to time, if it wasn't so !@#$ing expensive to send and receive them without a plan.

Anyway, guess the point is that while the device itself it "cheaper", the service costs and forced in-store activation (refuse to step into another god awful AT&T store, and the local Apple Store is so crowded I'd be there for hours) have made it less likely I'll be able to get one as soon as I'd like (i.e. NOW! :)).

[CrazEtooN]

I noticed this too. WTF? What are you going to do with the phone if you don't have a dock to connect it to your Mac? So the real price (before the $70 minimum monthly rate) is $250 (if the dock is $50), unless I'm missing something or that information is wrong.

It still comes with the charge/sync cable, just not the pretty dock that enables it to stand proud next to your iMac.

[vega07]

so if you want a dock, then it'll be even more expensive in the long run.

the lack of a dock and plastic back makes me wonder if the iphone is subsidized.

damn it, it probably is. I don't want to accept it. :(

[queshy]

thanks for clarifying that for me.

[mark34]

I just want everything else the iPhone offers (GPS, apps, touchscreen, the list goes on...)



Sounds to me you need to wait and see how the touch is updated. May be better off with an iPod Touch and a tiny cheapo phone from some random carrier.

[drchipinski]

If this only gets through to a handful of the hundreds of complainers, I will be happy... Someone needs to try, and I haven't seen this thread done yet, so here goes nothing.... (copy of something I said in the middle of another topic)

What nobody seems to understand is that the $30 is not specifically tied to the 3G speeds.

For the love of God, why can't you understand that all At&t BlackBerry and PDA data plans start at $30 a month with NO text messages included?? The original iPhone received special data pricing because it was so expensive to buy and because there was a revenue share between Apple and At&t.

The revenue share is gone.

The price is now subsidized.

This means that the special treatment the previous iPhone got is gone. It is now being priced the EXACT SAME WAY as ALL their other smartphones and PDAs!!!!!!

If you have a BlackBerry Curve, there is no 3G for you because it is an EDGE only device. Guess what, $30/mo data plan, no texts included.

If you have the 3G capable At&t Tilt, there is 3G for if you live in a 3G area. Guess what, $30/mo data plan, no texts included.

If you have that same 3G capable Tilt and live in an EDGE only area, you can only use it over EDGE. Guess what, $30/mo data plan, no texts included. (regardless of being in a 3G area, or an EDGE area, the Tilt data plan is $30/mo. Same plan, doesn't matter where you live or what coverage you can get. I know I am just repeating what I said, but I just want to be sure it is absolutely understood ;), so I am adding this blurb)

THE PRICE IS NOT JUST TIED TO THE 3G!!!

This has become one of the most pathetic strings of complaints I have ever seen. Try to understand the following:

-iPhone releases in June 2007 for $599 and $499.
-Apple and At&t have a revenue sharing agreement, so Apple has more control over the plan pricing.
-Due to cost and said agreement, the phone is given a special break and is not put on a standard, $30/mo PDA data plan. It is instead given the same plan type as a normal flip phone. This plan is called the MEdiaMax plan, even though it is not branded as such for the iPhone. Look it up on At&t's website if you doubt this.

Fast forward a year

-iPhone 3G comes out on July 11th.
-iPhone receives subsidized pricing this time around.
-Revenue sharing agreement is gone. Due to this fact, and the subsidized pricing, At&t takes the iPhone out of the special data pricing bracket it formally was in and places it into the PDA bracket where it always should have been. Apple has no say over this because the revenue sharing is gone.

Are you getting this now? Can you see it?

It is not the work of the devil. It is not Jobs trying to eat your soul. It is not At&t trying to steal your first born. It is simply At&t pricing the iPhone data in accordance with all their other PDA/smartphones.

The last point is that the negative press may actually cause a change before July 11th.

Just calm down and see what happens. If nothing changes, and you don't want to pay it, don't buy the damned phone, but please stop making asinine complaints about it.

I think you are misinformed if you think Apple is not making any $$$ from ATT. Apple is not selling the phones at cost because they like us....they are getting you in the door to use ATT, where they will make up their money from the loss of the price of the phone.

[gloss]

I think you are misinformed if you think Apple is not making any $$$ from ATT. Apple is not selling the phones at cost because they like us....they are getting you in the door to use ATT, where they will make up their money from the loss of the price of the phone.

It's subsidized. AT&T is paying full price, whatever that is, for the phones, and making up the hit in subscription revenues.

There's no more revenue sharing. Apple's profit from the iPhone is going to be from AT&Ts purchases and the iTunes App/Music/Video stores.

[Sweetbike40]

so if you want a dock, then it'll be even more expensive in the long run.

the lack of a dock and plastic back makes me wonder if the iphone is subsidized.

damn it, it probably is. I don't want to accept it. :(

I don't get the dock thing at all. I have 4 ipods including a Touch. I'm sure the iPhone connects like the Touch. I just use a usb cable. :confused:

[mikeyg00]

I am one of the people paying $29/mo for my data plan (ATT Cingular 8525). So switching to the new iPhone is actually going to save me $$ all around....

[Sweetbike40]

What I don't like is that with the iPhone you get no corporate discounts and you HAVE to get the data plan it looks like with the 3G phone. I hope both of these are found to be false in the weeks ahead.

mE Too. These things suck. Esp. the no corporate discount.

[michaelsviews]

Wrong. Every time you get a new phone using a subsidy you have to sign a new contract. It works that way for every carrier on the planet.

Not true, if you buy it outright, than there is NO subsidy

[gloss]

Not true, if you buy it outright, than there is NO subsidy

Exactly. But they're not (currently) offering the phone outright.

[Siron]

If by having to sign a new two year agreement your Rollover minutes are reset to zero. The reason I switched from Verizon to Cingular was for the rollover minutes. I have around 3000 in my rollover bank and I sure wouldn't like to have to start over again.
Alan

[tomegun]

The question I have concerns how this phone is treated and discounts. Over the past year, we couldn't get anything iPhone-related with a discount, nothing. So since they are treating this phone like any other phone, will we be able to get discounts? We have two Curves now and get a military discount on our monthly bill. Will we be able to have a plan with the iPhone and get the same discount? I would really like to know the answer to that.

For those who currently have the iPhone, I don't think the concept of paying more for more capabilities has sunk in yet. If you think you are paying more and not getting enough in return...the harsh thing to say would be to not get the iPhone, but I know many people want it anyway. What are you gonna do!

[michaelsviews]

If by having to sign a new two year agreement your Rollover minutes are reset to zero. The reason I switched from Verizon to Cingular was for the rollover minutes. I have around 3000 in my rollover bank and I sure wouldn't like to have to start over again.
Alan

To the best of my knowledge, if you sign a new contract your roll over minutes go with you, if you port out and come back with in 30 days you get them back that I know for sure because my son and I tried Verizon and came back to AT&T on the 30th day and the acct was reactivated with rollover minutes.

FYI, we came back because of locked down features which meant you had to pay more and we could NOT get reception inside the house and had to walk into the back yard if we wanted to take or make a cell call

[michaelsviews]

Exactly. But they're not (currently) offering the phone outright.

Obviously your correct but I cant wait to see what happens late this summer and into fall and the people that sell them outside of AT&T & Apple, if it happened with the 1st gen it will happen with the 2nd and 3rd and so on.

This whole new 3G and A-GPS is to win over Blackberry and Palm customers and bring more business's into the iPhone thats all and the more people that write applications the more the memory is going to have to increase or at least you would think so. Imagine giving an iPhone to an insurance investigator and a better camera built in , the possibilities are endless. However there are allot of places that do not allow cellphones with cameras also.

Only GOD knows and Steve whats coming down the pike

[Michael CM1]

If by having to sign a new two year agreement your Rollover minutes are reset to zero. The reason I switched from Verizon to Cingular was for the rollover minutes. I have around 3000 in my rollover bank and I sure wouldn't like to have to start over again.
Alan

That happened to me once, but I think it was when I first added a second line (switching from individual to family). When I added a 3rd line, it didn't reset. When I switched phones (most recently from a RAZR to the iPhone), it didn't reset. I have about 3,700 rollover minutes in the bank and I got my iPhone 2 months ago.

Those rollover minutes are the best added feature AT&T has, but I still wish someone would come up with cheaper plans. Cellular phones are hardly new technology.

[kdarling]

The revenue share is gone. The price is now subsidized.

The phone was always subsidized by ATT.

At first, Apple took most of the subsidy for themselves, and called it "revenue sharing".

Apparently that agreement was only for a year.

Now the subsidy goes rightfully to the customer again.

[pilotError]

This phone went from being a consumer phone to a corporate phone. :(

I pay about $157 / mo for 1400 minute Family plan + 2 iPhones today. If I wanted to upgrade, they force me to re-up to a 2 year plan and I get to pay an additional $30 / mo for what I get now. That's around $190 / mo for a couple of phones...

What really sucks is that you can't use your personal phone to access corporate push mail or applications / VPN. If you use those, you are forced to sign up for the business plan.

AT&T really screwed Apple on this deal. The pricing might be the same for existing Blackberry users but it's a deal breaker for me. They probably should have kept the 2G for the folks who don't need the speed.

[geekmommy4]

I don't get the dock thing at all. I have 4 ipods including a Touch. I'm sure the iPhone connects like the Touch. I just use a usb cable. :confused:

I kind of liked the dock when I first got it, but I found that I used it less and less and then not at all when I found a case that I liked (which wouldn't fit in the dock). Not a big deal to me, although it did look nice sitting in it.

[timimbo85]

I mean in all honesty the 250 extra, or what ever it is, that is spanned over 2 years really isn't that bad. Id rather spend the 250 on something cool rather than a weekend downtown. And hell I needed to get a new iPod and wanted a GPS so all in all, I guess I kind of saved... Sorry just trying to be optimistic.

[Greencardman]

I think you need to adjust the first post. As mentioned by one or two people above, some of us do own 3G phones and only pay $20 a month and get 200 free text messages. So yes, for us, our bills are going to go up just to switch hardware, which is unpleasant. I haven't read the fine print, but I sure hope the "unlimited" data limit for this new iPhone plan is higher than it is for my current one, because i plan on using a heck of a lot of data once the 3G iPhone comes out.

[liquidlink]

So would this mean that like all other smartphones on AT&T the data plan is optional? Will you be able to get an iPhone with no data plan on it? Can you just you the wifi option?

Sorry if changed the subject but wanting to know the answer.

[JKubecki]

All data plans for all carriers in the U.S. are the same as the iPhones or higher, look at each carriers sites. The original iPhones rates were below normal, now they're just standard.

Um, not quite. I am currently a Sprint subscriber, and my wife and I both have unlimited data for $15/month for each phone.

I would love to switch 7/11, but I'm not sure I can justify the cost increase every month. Based on AT&T's site, we would be paying $177/month for the same level of service we have now with Sprint, for $120/month:


800 shared minutes family plan (actually drops to 700 minutes on AT&T)
Unlimited text messaging for both phones
Unlimited data for 2 phones
Early nights and weekends (7 pm)


(Pricing is based on the "PDA Personal" plan on each phone from AT&T for $30/month)

The iPhone looks pretty sweet, but is it actually $57/month sweeter? (I am currently on a Mogul, and wife is on a Centro.) I'm having a hard time believing it will be.

[timimbo85]

So would this mean that like all other smartphones on AT&T the data plan is optional? Will you be able to get an iPhone with no data plan on it? Can you just you the wifi option?

Sorry if changed the subject but wanting to know the answer.

Thats a good question, I have a blackberry, which I hate, and I did not have to get the data plan. If you did that with the iPhone it would be a touch with phone capabilities. But I can put money that you have to get the plan.

[alFR]

I think the keynote also annoyed some of us. Yeah, it's for people at the WWDC (developers!). It just felt like there was so little information that I gave a poot about. When Gen. Nerd (whoever the younger guy that hosted all the apps part) went on about APIs, I fast-forwarded through about an hour of software developers speaking another language. I was like "show me a frickin' Mac or something!"

You've answered your own point: it was WWDC, not MacWorld. WWDC = for the devs, MacWorld = for the consumers (i.e. you).

I don't want the data plan at all. why force it on me? I have wifi everywhere. I don't need visual voicemail. Even if the $30 price tag is industry standard, it really is still too expensive. My 6MBPS connection with AT&T costs $30 bucks for God's sake! Now I have to pay another $30 bucks. That's why I don't want to pay for it, especially when I'll probably only use it for 15 minutes per month.

I just want everything else the iPhone offers (GPS, apps, touchscreen, the list goes on...)

OK, you wouldn't get GPS (unless they allow bluetooth tethering to an external GPS) but why not buy a first-gen iPhone on Ebay, unlock it and put in whatever non-data phone plan sim you like?

[Jay42]

I think the real bottom line here for a lot people here, myself included, is that an iPhone will cost you $70 per month minimum (probably more). If you need more minutes or texts, it gets close to $1000 per year! Ouch. It's not the $10 increase, its the other 60 bucks that makes it hard to swallow.

If you could use the phone as a 3g modem for my MacBook, ok. Maybe I would even consider dropping my cable internet connection. But for now, I'll stick to my $35/month Verizon plan with better coverage.

[Mad Mac Maniac]

Yea all that information is what all us apple-heads were slowly realizing over monday. It was just a little disturbing to initially see that $240 jump. Plus, it was believed that the texts were taken away as well, a fact which is now being disputed...

So with all that being said, I have come to understand the increase. I really only have one last question/argument. At&t is the exclusive carrier for the iphone so doesn't that count for anything? Don't iphone users (and apple indirectly) get special treatment so that we buy more of them??

I mean now that apple no longer gets partial revenue what is the point of having an exclusive carrier? It seems to jip apple if there is no benefit to only using at&t. And you can't say subsidy because carriers subsidy phones all the time that aren't exclusive...

If apple sold unlocked iphones that would open up business a whole lot more! even if it were $199 with at&t (subsidized) or $399 unlocked. What's the problem with this idea?

[liquidlink]

OK, you wouldn't get GPS (unless they allow bluetooth tethering to an external GPS) but why not buy a first-gen iPhone on Ebay, unlock it and put in whatever non-data phone plan sim you like?

If I unlock an iPhone I lose the warrenty, I have a Blackberry for work and currently use a Curve for Personal with no Data service. I want the iPhone 3g for personal with no Data. I could care less about the GPS personally, I have it on my work Blackberry. Visual Voicemail is not a big deal to me either.

If AT&T is going to make the iPhone data the same as there smartphone data then they better have the option to take the data or not take it.

[mikeyg00]

This phone went from being a consumer phone to a corporate phone. :(



I really don't think Apple is going to make inroads on the Blackberry/corporate market.

It's still more an entertainment device than a businesslike PDA. A very nice one, but still ...

[SleepyHead157]

sure the op makes sense.

BUT...

I don't want the data plan at all. why force it on me? I have wifi everywhere. I don't need visual voicemail. Even if the $30 price tag is industry standard, it really is still too expensive. My 6MBPS connection with AT&T costs $30 bucks for God's sake! Now I have to pay another $30 bucks. That's why I don't want to pay for it, especially when I'll probably only use it for 15 minutes per month.

I just want everything else the iPhone offers (GPS, apps, touchscreen, the list goes on...)

I wonder what would have happened if T-mobile was the carrier.


thats the same boat I'm in. I currently have the 1st gen Iphone but don't have a data plan. I have wi fi on campus, at home and pretty much everywhere i go to eat and I don't need internet access every minute of my life... I just want the phone service with a text plan and wi fi. thats the only thing thats bugging me is, can i get rid of the data plan like in the first gen iphone...

[aristobrat]

Um, not quite. I am currently a Sprint subscriber, and my wife and I both have unlimited data for $15/month for each phone.
Enjoy your grandfathered plan.

In a few days, new Sprint subscribers will be paying $30/month for unlimited data for their smartphones.

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/06/11/new-sprint-plans-coming-next-week/

[soms]

Thanks for posting this. Hopefully it shuts up some of the people who are mad and have no idea what the $30 actually goes towards.

[MacGeek7]

thanks for the perspective - I had been kind of hesitant since the price increase of the unlimited data but seeing it explained like that makes a lot of sense

[benmrii]

Thank you for this post. It's well written and full of those things called "facts" and "logic" that most of the people screaming about "price gouging" and "insane new prices" seem to be avoiding so completely that it comes across as intentional avoidance so they can bitch about something.

I actually considered writing up something similar, but I'm glad to see it. If for no other reason than yours is a lot nicer than mine probably would have ended up. :D

[saDeRmac]

CrazEtooN, Thanks for starting this thread. I'm kinda sick of trying to explain why at&t decided to up the plans. I will link anyone who has a question on the subject. As an at&t Retail Sales Consultant, I can say that you hit it right on the head of the nail.