Health Care outside of the US

[M. Malone]

So I've been in the US all my life, moved to a country which is considered to be one of the poorest in the world.

So my friend did something stupid and hit his head. He definitely required stitches, we went to a clinic where the doctor applied local anesthetic, stitched him up, gave him something for the pain. The doctor then got my friend's address and sent someone from the clinic to check on him the next day, 10 days later the stitches were removed. total cost: $6

I thought it was interesting that in such a country health care is so much easier to get than the US. what do you all think?

[Iscariot]

While no small part of the US' healthcare costs are thanks to bloated and greedy pharmaceuticals, medical contracts and specialists, much of it is also contributed by the development of state of the art procedures and medical technologies. I'd be interested to know if anyone has any statistics on that.

[mpw]

Difficult to compare costs from country to country without knowing where you are.

Here, in Jersey, the cost of some stitches in a scenario similar to what you describe would be nothing, as we have free (at point of use) healthcare. However a trip to my GP for a 5min. consult for anything from a sore throat to having found a lump will cost me £30 (~USD60), anything the GP does I'd need to pay for (vaccinations for foreign travel, minor procedures etc.), but any treatment that he prescribes for me to be provided by a pharmacy or hospital is, again, free (at point of use)

Edit: And like Iscariot says, that $6 cost of a simple procedure is probably a 'true' cost, but does that countries healthcare system provide for the more complicated and costly procedures? /Edit:

We're lucky to have free healthcare available, but it does cost by way of high taxes, and you have to accept that you can't demand the treatments and drugs you may want as you want them, there has to be some management of public resources if you can't or don't want to pay privately.

[Gray-Wolf]

In the US, where lawsuits happen at the drop of a hat, Doctors charge more as well, to help offset the malpractice insurance payments. As to "free" health care, nothing is free. You will pay for it one way or another. Taxes or premiums. And as much as I hate premiums, I would rather be paying for my own insurance, rather than others healthcare through taxes.

[Iscariot]

I would rather be paying for my own insurance, rather than others healthcare through taxes.

I can't understand why. Perhaps you could explain it to me?

[leekohler]

In the US, where lawsuits happen at the drop of a hat, Doctors charge more as well, to help offset the malpractice insurance payments. As to "free" health care, nothing is free. You will pay for it one way or another. Taxes or premiums. And as much as I hate premiums, I would rather be paying for my own insurance, rather than others healthcare through taxes.

Why? It's been costing us far more per capita than other countries to do it this way. Oh wait, we don't want to become godless communists! ;)

[edesignuk]

In the US, where lawsuits happen at the drop of a hat, Doctors charge more as well, to help offset the malpractice insurance payments. As to "free" health care, nothing is free. You will pay for it one way or another. Taxes or premiums. And as much as I hate premiums, I would rather be paying for my own insurance, rather than others healthcare through taxes.Surely though the very nature of insurance means the insurer always wins. They're out to make money from you, pure and simple. I see the benefits of both state and private, but I think if given a choice of only one or the other I'd go state, at least they are there to help you rather than make a profit from you....in theory.

[és:]

So I've been in the US all my life, moved to a country which is considered to be one of the poorest in the world.

So my friend did something stupid and hit his head. He definitely required stitches, we went to a clinic where the doctor applied local anesthetic, stitched him up, gave him something for the pain. The doctor then got my friend's address and sent someone from the clinic to check on him the next day, 10 days later the stitches were removed. total cost: $6

I thought it was interesting that in such a country health care is so much easier to get than the US. what do you all think?

Wow.

Getting charged sucks.

[és:]

Surely though the very nature of insurance means the insurer always wins. They're out to make money from you, pure and simple. I see the benefits of both state and private, but I think if given a choice of only one or the other I'd go state, at least they are there to help you rather than make a profit from you....in theory.


Socialised health care is by far the best way for the majority of the earth. You're paying the insurance and pharmaceutical companies massive profits to do what a socialist system could charge flat rate for. Why pay stuff + profit instead of paying just for stuff.

Doesn't make sense.

[remmy]

What may be of concern is now all these private pharmaceuticals, insurance and other companies are worming there way into public spending through various contracts and legal agreements, some are applying the same charges that would come into effect in a place were there is only private health care.

[miloblithe]

The main arguments against the US system are:

1) it does not provide preventative access to all (no insurance? wait until you're at death's door and rush to an ER).

2) It is incredibly inefficient. The cost of legal fees and (to a degree) drug prices are not the main issue. The main issue is that administering the ridiculously complex multiple payer system means that U.S. administrative prices are the highest in the world. Roughly 20-25% of health care costs are administrative. http://dll.umaine.edu/ble/U.S.%20HCweb.pdf As a result, we have by far the most expensive health care system in the world.

3) It does not perform well on many metrics. Usually the most expensive is the best. We rank 26th in the world in infant mortality, 24th in disability adjusted life expectancy, so on and so on.

[imac/cheese]

So I've been in the US all my life, moved to a country which is considered to be one of the poorest in the world.

So my friend did something stupid and hit his head. He definitely required stitches, we went to a clinic where the doctor applied local anesthetic, stitched him up, gave him something for the pain. The doctor then got my friend's address and sent someone from the clinic to check on him the next day, 10 days later the stitches were removed. total cost: $6

I thought it was interesting that in such a country health care is so much easier to get than the US. what do you all think?

What is $6 worth in one of the poorest countries in the world?

[zen]

Healthcare is completely free here in the UK.

[djellison]

I would rather be paying for my own insurance, rather than others healthcare through taxes.

Guess what - you're paying for the healthcare of others via insurance. You don't claim all year, and Mrs Smith needs Chemo - you're paying for it.

Doug

[M. Malone]

What is $6 worth in one of the poorest countries in the world?

The per capita income is around $600.

I think the problem with US health care is that if you don't have insurance then you're pretty much screwed if something happens to you. And if you are someone who has a high possibility of something happening to, you're also screwed.

Health insurance companies seem to dictate the health care system. I'm not that experienced in how insurance companies work, but if there were no insurance companies in the US and people were expected to pay on their own, would costs of health care be much lower and is the presence of insurance companies negative to people in need of health care?

Cause it seems that insurance companies work like a raffle, all customers pay premiums and there's so much money with the insurance companies, then the doctor of the customer who gets sick wins the "raffle". Health care prices are determined based on how much money the insurance companies will pay and not what an average Joe can pay out of his pocket.

[atszyman]

In the US, where lawsuits happen at the drop of a hat, Doctors charge more as well, to help offset the malpractice insurance payments. As to "free" health care, nothing is free. You will pay for it one way or another. Taxes or premiums. And as much as I hate premiums, I would rather be paying for my own insurance, rather than others healthcare through taxes.

And where do you think hospitals make up the cost of those who come to the ER with a life threatening emergency that could have been easily and more cheaply handled weeks ago if they could have paid for a doctor's visit? Part of the reason a simple trip to the Doctor can cost so much is that a Hospital cannot turn away a patient in the ER because they can't pay. That means those of us who can/do pay will make up the difference, in doing so rates go up, cost to insurance goes up and insurance premiums go up, and that only deals with the uninsured.

The nature of insurance in general is that the healthy are subsidizing the unhealthy. If you only go to the doctor a couple times a year and are in good health, you (or your employer) has spent a lot more on your insurance than what you would have paid out of pocket. For a family of 4 the monthly cost for insurance from my employer is around $1200, for better insurance through my wife it runs her employer $1500. We're young and healthy, our kids, while they do get sick, probably wouldn't end up costing us the $18,000 a year that's paid in for insurance. Of course neither I, nor my wife's company will pay us that extra $18,000 if we drop company insurance. If we don't have it they pocket the extra money, and the extra premiums we pay and don't use every year goes towards someone else's bills or profit for the insurance company.

Of course even if they would offer the extra money there would be no way I'd go without insurance. We may be healthy now but once you find you have some illness it's too late and if you end up in a one week hospital stay and aren't completely destitute you could easily end up kissing your house goodbye, along with the rest of your assets.

We all pay for the uninsured, and the healthy insured pay for the sick insured. We just do it in a fairly inefficient manner at the moment and those who go without insurance get off scott free. At least if it were part of our tax burden, everyone who pays taxes would contribute.

[CalBoy]

In the US, where lawsuits happen at the drop of a hat, Doctors charge more as well, to help offset the malpractice insurance payments.

I'd like to point out that this is a commonly believed falsehood.

Medical malpractice suits are in fact more rare these days, as a series of legal decision in the late 80s and early 90s reduced the breadth and maximum collection one can get from a malpractice suit.

What doctors truly suffer from these days is excessive entanglement on the part of insurance companies. These companies are notorious for not paying on time, paying less than what the procedure costs, etc.

[PlaceofDis]

Healthcare is completely free here in the UK.

no its not. its a part of your taxes. but still is a better system than the US.

Guess what - you're paying for the healthcare of others via insurance. You don't claim all year, and Mrs Smith needs Chemo - you're paying for it.

Doug

exactly. i don't get why people say they don't want to pay for other's health care, when you already are, and for less benefit. if things were more proactive than reactive, which universal care would help spread due to people not being so afraid of the cost, overall living conditions would improve for society as a whole, which is a good thing.

[Dagless]

Healthcare is completely free here in the UK.

Sorta, we pay for it but just not directly, and you don't need any special insurance to get treated.

About 10 years ago they opened up a GP clinic and all it cost us was a urine and blood sample :D

[northy124]

Healthcare is completely free here in the UK.

Jeez mate, It's not free ever heard of taxes? Well a percentage of our tax goes to the NHS to no not free.

[stevento]

Healthcare in the UK, i bet is not of the same quality of private healthcare here in the US or the congressional plan. that's why we cant get single payer through any congress, democrat or republican.

so I think the solution is to open the congressional plan to everyone, and for people who cant afford that, enroll them in a single-payer-like system.

[leekohler]

Healthcare in the UK, i bet is not of the same quality of private healthcare here in the US or the congressional plan. that's why we cant get single payer through any congress, democrat or republican.

so I think the solution is to open the congressional plan to everyone, and for people who cant afford that, enroll them in a single-payer-like system.

You might want to ask a Brit about that. ;)

[stevento]

I can't understand why. Perhaps you could explain it to me?

well, unfortunately, here in the US we have something called Republicans, kind of like the UK's Conservative Party.
they dont think it's right to tax everyone in order to give health care to everyone because your paying for someone else's problems that you dont have.

[marbles]

My experience of UK NHS (free ) health care has been very hit & miss , dependent mostly on area

[northy124]

My experience of UK NHS (free ) health care has been very hit & miss , dependent mostly on area

Not free, you pay taxes which pay for the NHS, Just had to make my point clear.

Anyway NHS sucks and it looks like it is going to be scraped well from what I heard.

[skunk]

well, unfortunately, here in the US we have something called Republicans, kind of like the UK's Conservative Party.You have no idea how wrong your comparison is.

[atszyman]

well, unfortunately, here in the US we have something called Republicans, kind of like the UK's Conservative Party.
they dont think it's right to tax everyone in order to give health care to everyone because your paying for someone else's problems that you dont have.

Which we pay for anyway in our insurance premiums. The healthy insured subsidize the non-healthy insured and all of the insured subsidize those without insurance. To think that we don't pay for it is somewhat ridiculous.

Someone has to pay and we all do in the form of more expensive doctors and hospitals since they have to treat everyone in the ER regardless of their ability to pay. They make up the money by charging the rest of us more which drives up our insurance premiums.

The insurance companies have high overhead, and the ER visits are much more expensive than the preventative trip to the doctor that would have happened if the patient would have had insurance to go to the doctor before it required an ER visit. So not only do we pay, we pay more than we should for what people like to define as "other people's problems".

[nick9191]

Not free, you pay taxes which pay for the NHS, Just had to make my point clear.

Anyway NHS sucks and it looks like it is going to be scraped well from what I heard.

You heard wrong.

Anyway it doesn't matter how screwed up the NHS is, the point is that the principle is still there, that everyone rich or poor is entitled to be treated.

[northy124]

You heard wrong.

Anyway it doesn't matter how screwed up the NHS is, the point is that the principle is still there, that everyone rich or poor is entitled to be treated.

Sure I did, either way I don't care as I will go private looking at the local hospital (Royal Cornwall) utter crap it is.

[skunk]

Sure I did.Who said the NHS was to be scraped (or even scrapped)?

[northy124]

Read edit. I can't say as I'm not 100% sure my self but I'll go private if my local one doesn't actually get better, all the times I've been in I've had to wait ages even if about 4 people in A&E and a bunch of doctors wondering around pretending to do work.

[nick9191]

If they made any inkling of scrapping the NHS, you can bet your last penny that the current government would be ousted before you can say MRSA.

[marbles]

Not free, you pay taxes which pay for the NHS, Just had to make my point clear.

Anyway NHS sucks and it looks like it is going to be scraped well from what I heard.


I know that taxes are paid to fund the NHS !.

I was merely stating 'free' , to make it clear to those outside the UK that I was talking about the available for all service.

Edit > sometimes when we wait in A&E for hours it is usually because someone with a more serious injury has been brought in via ambulance.

[iJohnHenry]

But taxes are based on the ability to pay.

Same as here.

We also have something called ODB (Ontario Drug Plan) for those 65 and over, or the disabled.

I got a script renewed yesterday that "costs" $74.50. I paid nothing.

[és:]

Jeez mate, It's not free ever heard of taxes? Well a percentage of our tax goes to the NHS to no not free.

What about the people that don't pay taxes? It's free for anyone that earns under 5,436 pounds (that's 10.606.80 dollars), including every child and non working person.

The British love to complain about our healthcare. I'm one of them because it's my country and I'm the one that should be campaigning to make it better. However, that doesn't mean it's bad and even if it was it doesn't mean it's bad because it's socialised.

Private healthcare in America is also sketchy at best. There are third world countries out there that have socialised healthcare where their children have a higher survival rate than that of Washington and their people have a higher life expectancy than in Washington and that's without the 44m that are uninsured and without healthcare. 44m is not a joke of a number.

There are corporations making millions of the back of peoples lives and deaths. There are people employed by health insurance companies to try to wriggle out of paying for they insured.

So, whilst you might complain about Cornwall (a place I grew up in and had an operation the same day that I went in) and their healthcare, think of the many millions that don't have it.

[solvs]

In the US, where lawsuits happen at the drop of a hat, Doctors charge more as well, to help offset the malpractice insurance payments. As to "free" health care, nothing is free. You will pay for it one way or another. Taxes or premiums. And as much as I hate premiums, I would rather be paying for my own insurance, rather than others healthcare through taxes.
They already tried tort reform after blaming that for high medical costs. Didn't help much. Don't know why no one mentions that anymore. Yes, it will cost money in taxes, but you already pay, even if through your employer. And otherwise, we actually pay more per person than almost any other country. Plus, as said, your insurance premium is paying for others. Just as your insurance paying for the doctors and hospitals also offsets the cost of those who don't or can't pay.

With a dual system, you can buy your own insurance or have your employer pay, along with tax breaks, while those who can't or don't have access to it can still get preventative care, which is also cheaper for the rest of us in the long run.

[SMM]

My wife and I are seriously considering living abroad. Our first choice is Costa Rica. We have actually been studying this very seriously. If McCain gets elected, it will be the 'big adios'. We are currently looking at different properties and are planning a 2 month trip down there in the fall. I have already opened an account in the Caymans. We are both in our 50's, so healthcare quality, and costs, are a concern. I was pleased to learn that their healthcare was excellent, and ranges from 25% to 33%, of what it costs in the US. Prescriptions are very cheap. We also were considering Uruguay and Nicaragua. Uruguay was a little more expensive and Nicaragua the least expensive.

[yg17]

Jericho2550, just out of curiosity, what country do you live in?

[Anuba]

I live in Sweden where we've had universal healthcare forever.

I believe we're one of the countries that Michael Moore raved about in Sicko (haven't seen it).

So how is it really? While I can thoroughly recommend a system where everyone receives free or at least heavily subsidized healthcare, it's only as good as the service provided -- and in order for the service to be top notch, there has to be competition, there has to be private alternatives to keep the government owned entities on their toes. In Sweden we don't have that. We do have small private practices, but all hospitals are owned and run by the state. The service is great once you manage to get it, but boy do you have to wait for it, and boy do you have to be sly to penetrate the fortress they've built up to keep as many as possible out. Unless you show up in a condition that requires immediate treatment (i.e. you have a brain tumor the size of a tennis ball, or your arm has just fallen off), you have to wait in line for months and months. I just had a parotidectomy (removal of a big salivary gland), a complicated operation that took about 8 hours. Yeah, they did a world class job, and yeah, it was free of charge. But I had to wait in line for 10 months.

When there's a monopoly situation, the service provider has no incentive to improve or try harder, and so they don't. All they do is waste tax payer money on useless bureaucracy and administration, they've completely lost sight of their actual purpose.

So, yes to universal healthcare but hell no to public sector monopoly. Make'em compete for that tax payer money.

[nick9191]

Right,
online I know someone, him who is American, and his wife who is British lived in the US for years. Until one day sadly his wife developed some kind of illness which left her bed ridden for the rest of her life, I never inquired into what it was, but I can assume something like multiple sclerosis. They had top notch insurance, guess what, the company turned round and gave them the middle finger.

Don't you understand, if you run healthcare as a business they are constantly trying to make higher profits, and will try every loop hole to get out of paying out.

So if you don't want an NHS, move... please god move, although I'm sure we'll see you soon once you come back to ponce of us when your ill.