Bogus IQ/SAT Scores Criminal

[Sun Baked]

We keep getting people bragging about their IQ on MR.

Be careful.:)Woman Who Faked Son's Scores Sentenced (http://news.findlaw.com/ap_stories/other/1110/12-3-2003/20031203074502_13.html)

BROOMFIELD, Colo. (AP) - A woman who faked test scores to pose her son as one of the most gifted children in the world has been sentenced to four days in jail for fraud.

Elizabeth Chapman, 31, was convicted of a misdemeanor charge of second-degree forgery Tuesday for providing the Broomfield Department of Human Services with bogus IQ test results from when her son Justin was 3.

Chapman admitted fabricating most of her son's achievements, including a perfect 800 score on the math section of the SAT.

The boy, now 10, was placed in foster care after his mother took him to a hospital last year for what she feared was a suicide attempt. They were reunited in February.
2003-12-03 15:32:49 GMT

[gwuMACaddict]

Originally posted by Sun Baked
We keep getting people bragging about their IQ on MR.

Be careful.:)

HAHAHA! that thread was getting to me too ;)

[jefhatfield]

i remember posting my iq and sat scores on a previous thread, and while my scores put me at 77th pencentile sat english and 99th percentile in sat math, most people's scores on macrumors were way higher than mine

my iq score, in the 97th percentile, was the lowest score mentioned i think

so either the people on macrumors are very, very smart or they like to brag...i guess jail time for fraud is not such a bad thing

and one more thing

there is no such thing as a measureable iq over 200

[scem0]

Yes, I think many people here are guilty of lying about IQ/SAT scores.

I only know the scores I've gotten off the IQ sites that have been posted here although I'll be taking the SATs this year.

scem0

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by scem0
Yes, I think many people here are guilty of lying about IQ/SAT scores.

I only know the scores I've gotten off the IQ sites that have been posted here although I'll be taking the SATs this year.

scem0

good luck on your SATs

take it more than once to get a good score...i started with an 880 on my first take, second time was 130 points higher and then the third take was 140 points higher than the second take...so i walked off with an 1150 and even with a dismal gpa in high school, i was able to choose from a pretty wide range of colleges and universities

[scem0]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
good luck on your SATs

take it more than once to get a good score...i started with an 880 on my first take, second time was 130 points higher and then the third take was 140 points higher than the second take...so i walked off with an 1150 and even with a dismal gpa in high school, i was able to choose from a pretty wide range of colleges and universities

My GPA is pretty dismal (3.1 on a 4.0 scale), but that is going to increase a lot by the end of my senior year. I am taking all regulars courses this year and I am breezing my way through with high A's.

The only problem is boredom. I have a frickin' 101.8 in Algebra II and I sleep during that class and I always do the homework during lunch.

I'm not too worried about the SATs because I've always been a great tester. I'm just bad at getting my homework done, hence my 3.1 GPA. But I can do all my homework this year during lunch, so thats why my grades are going up so much. If only homework wasn't required and grades were classwork, participation, and tests.

Its unfair for the people who don't need to do the homework to learn the material to count homework IMO.

scem0

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by scem0
My GPA is pretty dismal (3.1 on a 4.0 scale), but that is going to increase a lot by the end of my senior year. I am taking all regulars courses this year and I am breezing my way through with high A's.

The only problem is boredom. I have a frickin' 101.8 in Algebra II and I sleep during that class and I always do the homework during lunch.

I'm not too worried about the SATs because I've always been a great tester. I'm just bad at getting my homework done, hence my 3.1 GPA. But I can do all my homework this year during lunch, so thats why my grades are going up so much. If only homework wasn't required and grades were classwork, participation, and tests.

Its unfair for the people who don't need to do the homework to learn the material to count homework IMO.

scem0

when i was in high school, a 3.1 was considered pretty good...also at the same time, there was no gpa over 4.0 and all classes were weighted the same

but your gpa should not pose a problem for admisssions counselors

[rainman::|:|]

yeah, the IQ thread was pretty bad. an *awful* lot of geniuses. now of course i was telling the truth, i must assert, and tho i can't find my results, i would gladly post a scan of my mensa card as proof. the rest of you tho... ;)

parents get so competitive with kids. it's a shame.

pnw

[Durandal7]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
when i was in high school, a 3.1 was considered pretty good...also at the same time, there was no gpa over 4.0 and all classes were weighted the same


jef, most colleges will disregard any weighting you have in high school and place you on a 4.0 scale.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Durandal7
jef, most colleges will disregard any weighting you have in high school and place you on a 4.0 scale.

when i went to high school, nobody had a 5.0 scale and smarter students took advanced classes just for the challenge and if they got a lower grade, well, tough beans

and the SAT was scored much more strictly than it is today

it's all a product of grade inflation and it reminds me of gas inflation in california, i paid $1.98 the other day and i was happy and when i started driving 25 years ago, i couldn't possibly imagine when i would consider anything less than two dollar a gallon something to be happy about

the way things go, one day some of the younger posters will be happy that they are paying less than ten dollars a gallon:p

[P-Worm]

Four days in jail? Weak.

P-Worm

[Macmaniac]

Whats funny is that some colleges say oh we don't pay attention to SAT score while others say they don't pay attention to GPA or class rank, while other say they ignore your extra activities.
So my conclusion is that if you completely fail GPA 0, get a 600 on the SATs and do nothing at school then you will get noticed;)
I'm so sick of tests but at least I dont get shafted by the new SAT, I miss it by one year whew.
Think about it since grade 1 we have been preparing for the SAT now they change it and we have been studying the wrong thing for the past 12 years. I feel really sorry the High School Juniors, you guys are going to get wrecked.

[scem0]

Originally posted by Macmaniac
I feel really sorry the High School Juniors, you guys are going to get wrecked.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :o :rolleyes:

yeah school systems suck.

scem0

[Macmaniac]

The juniors have been preparing for the old SAT test since grade 1 now they get to be guinea pigs for the new SAT, the whole school curriculum will have to change now to teach to the new SAT.

[janey]

ehhh
that is so lame.
anyway, its after 140-150 where IQ scores become pure speculation. the standard IQ tests in use right now are not capable of measuring anything really low or really high.

but i can be pretty sure my IQ is 145+, since you do need verified, official IQ scores to get into a highly gifted program in the LAUSD. Besides, back when i took it i thought it was a lot of fun because i got to play with building blocks and stuff and my parents didnt really understand what the principal was saying...so its not like they'd find some way to cheat on it :P

Anyway...who gives a **** about GPAs and SAT scores and stuff like that...no big deal...its not like its going to kill you (but nowadays it seems like it can)

[FelixDerKater]

Wow. I'm glad I don't have to go be a guinea pig on some new SAT. I was just looking at the changes listed over on collegeboard.com and it don't look like fun. It looks like they too the SAT II: Writing and stuck it in the SAT I. More fun...

Why eliminate analogies? You either know the words or you don't.

Steve Jobs is to Bill Gates as Mac OS is to __________.

A. Windows
B. Motorcycle
C. BMW
D. PowerPC

I did well on the first one so I wouldn't want to take a chance on the new one.

[Frohickey]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
good luck on your SATs

take it more than once to get a good score...i started with an 880 on my first take, second time was 130 points higher and then the third take was 140 points higher than the second take...so i walked off with an 1150 and even with a dismal gpa in high school, i was able to choose from a pretty wide range of colleges and universities

Taking the SAT more than once is only applicable if you have lots of money.

When I was going to high school, there was not a whole lot of money, so I only took it once. Got pretty decent, if I don't say so. Now, after high school and college, I make pretty decent money, but I still remember how it was way back when.

I guess this is why I take it personally when people start talking about taxing the rich more over in the Politics forum.

[Durandal7]

Originally posted by jefhatfield

my iq score, in the 97th percentile, was the lowest score mentioned i think

so either the people on macrumors are very, very smart or they like to brag...i guess jail time for fraud is not such a bad thing

They were all using the eMode.com results. eMode seems to be set up to pat you on the back and intice you to buy the $20 "Intelligence Report" so you can brag to your friends about how your IQ is 195.

I have never taken taken a real IQ test so I have no idea what my intelligence is and can't make many claims.

I was surprised at my SAT scores, my english score was sky high compared to my math score. I expected it to be vice versa.

scem0, are you a junior or a sophmore? I took a look at collegeboard.com and it said the new SAT comes into effect in Spring 2005 for the current sophmore class.

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by Frohickey
Taking the SAT more than once is only applicable if you have lots of money.

Really? I don't remember it being that much. Then again, I only took it once when I was 16, nailed a 1210 and didn't take it again. I thought it was about $50.

[Frohickey]

Originally posted by pseudobrit
Really? I don't remember it being that much. Then again, I only took it once when I was 16, nailed a 1210 and didn't take it again. I thought it was about $50.

And your point is?

I don't remember it being $50. This was back in '86. Even so, the cost of the test was plenty big for my family when I was growing up.

[G4scott]

Originally posted by scem0
My GPA is pretty dismal (3.1 on a 4.0 scale), but that is going to increase a lot by the end of my senior year. I am taking all regulars courses this year and I am breezing my way through with high A's.

The only problem is boredom. I have a frickin' 101.8 in Algebra II and I sleep during that class and I always do the homework during lunch.

I'm not too worried about the SATs because I've always been a great tester. I'm just bad at getting my homework done, hence my 3.1 GPA. But I can do all my homework this year during lunch, so thats why my grades are going up so much. If only homework wasn't required and grades were classwork, participation, and tests.

Its unfair for the people who don't need to do the homework to learn the material to count homework IMO.

scem0

I love it... You can get better grades in normal classes, and be able to get into the top of your class (or close), than by taking the harder classes... Weighting the classes works some, but I know there were a bunch of stupid people ranked higher than me... At least I got into the university I wanted to. That's what I'd focus on in high school. Get good grades. High school educations in Texas are a joke, and I'm not kidding. I won't say that we have a good education system. Not when they fire old, experienced teachers for newer inexperienced teacher just to save some money...

[themadchemist]

Originally posted by paulwhannel
yeah, the IQ thread was pretty bad. an *awful* lot of geniuses. now of course i was telling the truth, i must assert, and tho i can't find my results, i would gladly post a scan of my mensa card as proof. the rest of you tho... ;)

parents get so competitive with kids. it's a shame.

pnw

Man, Paul, I stopped paying the membership fees for that a few years ago when they got hiked the SECOND YEAR in a row. You know, the only good thing about that organization (for me at least) was the magazine. The letters to the editor section is extremely interesting. Great debates there.

Of course, I realize that it is important for those people who feel alienated/neglected because of their supposed "intelligence." I also understand that a lot of people blame their own lack of success or lack of human interaction skills on the problems of their personal brilliance being misunderstood. I consider that displacement of blame. IQ is not an end in itself. It is one factor in a whole slew, and more often than not, good work ethic/study skills or general aptitude in a subject is far more important than the vague category "IQ."

In fact, I generally figure that IQ is essentially a pretty bogus value, as it is different based on what test you take and how much prep you put in before that test (yes, you can prepare for an IQ test, like any other test, because it is a human construction for evaluation--it's imperfect).

Most of these tests are foolish attempts to quantify qualities too complex to be distilled into a number. Unfortunately, we all buy into the game, because the prize is important.

My friend, for example, kind of hijacked my scores once. He went around telling everyone that he had scored a 1560 on the SAT and that he had once scored a 1600 on a practice test ("I have it at home! I can bring it in!"). So someone, extremely skeptical, asked what the score breakdowns were. They, unfortunately, didn't add up to 1560. I found out later (I saw his score report when I was over at his house) that he had scored around a 1250. That's really not a bad score at all. It's quite good. That competitive pressures (despite the fact that I was a grade higher than him) and issues of pride and inadequacy made him feel it was necessary to lie about his scores is only a testament to the detrimental nature of these tests.

It's too bad that our students are over-tested, but at least we (the US) are not as bad as Asian countries, which rely almost solely on standardized test scores to evaluate their students.

übergeek: you said who cares about GPAs and SAT scores? Well, clearly, everybody. The importance of test is not in its inherent value, but in its perceived value by society. GPAs, on the other hand, are valuable tools, because they measure cumulative performance over a long period of time. They don't take into account unfortunate circumstances like sickness, etc., but such inconsistencies are marginalized by the breadth of time and evaluations that go into the calculation of a cumulative GPA.

[shadowfax]

i got a 222 scoring index on my PSAT, 7 points above the 215 National Merit Cutoff in my state of Texas. yet, somehow i only got a 1430 on my SAT. maybe that's because i didn't cheat the sh*t out of if by taking prep classes and studying.

anyone know how to verify these scores in some practical, free manner?

[mactastic]

Originally posted by Frohickey
I guess this is why I take it personally when people start talking about taxing the rich more over in the Politics forum.

Relax, we're not talking about taxing the rich more, we're talking about taxing the super-rich more. If you aren't worth more than say $10 million I want you to be getting there as fast as possible.:p

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by mactastic
Relax, we're not talking about taxing the rich more, we're talking about taxing the super-rich more. If you aren't worth more than say $10 million I want you to be getting there as fast as possible.:p

i figured it out

frohickey is super rich and he is.....drum roll please.....bill gates:p

now on his level any income tax increase can make a person lose sleep...i used to think the rich don't lose sleep on losing one dollar as much as the poor person, but real life has shown me that the rich lose more sleep over one dollar and that's why they are rich

whether i read a murder mystery about a billionaire offing the chairman of the federal reserve for a half percent tax increase or a true life bio about a billionaire entertainment guru who goes through his concert halls in new york and san francisco wading thru vomit and broken beer bottles to acquire an average of a dollar in loose change, a dollar is worth a lot more to a billionaire in his thinking than the average person

[Royal Pineapple]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
when i was in high school, a 3.1 was considered pretty good...also at the same time, there was no gpa over 4.0 and all classes were weighted the same

but your gpa should not pose a problem for admisssions counselors

thats how it is at my school

i got a 3.973
and a 1260 on sat I
taking SAT II saturday
wish me luck





... good luck, me

[janey]

Originally posted by themadchemist

It's too bad that our students are over-tested, but at least we (the US) are not as bad as Asian countries, which rely almost solely on standardized test scores to evaluate their students.

ah jesus...suicide rate for teens is high in places like korea...what a shame...there are so many cute and smart guys...

übergeek: you said who cares about GPAs and SAT scores? Well, clearly, everybody. The importance of test is not in its inherent value, but in its perceived value by society. GPAs, on the other hand, are valuable tools, because they measure cumulative performance over a long period of time. They don't take into account unfortunate circumstances like sickness, etc., but such inconsistencies are marginalized by the breadth of time and evaluations that go into the calculation of a cumulative GPA.
why the SAT to begin with? i was thinking about takign the ACT instead cause the SAT is wayyyyy too overhyped. Besides its curved. Just because you get a 1600 doesnt mean you get everything right :P
The SAT also only measures your ability to do well on a test. A GPA only shows how well you suck up to your teachers. Really, the ways we measure "intelligence" and stuff like that is totally screwed up. Admit it, half the classes you've ever taken in school (not counting anything above high school) were graded based on how much the teacher likes you, not by how well you do.

And my parents, like all asian parents, are obsessed with this gpa/sat/psat crap. its annoying and even they tell me that when necessary i should suck up to my teachers. I dont want to, and its complete bull****e. Which is why i never get all As. Only 5 As and one B. and my highest SAT score as of now is in the 1400s, not the perfect 1600 that every asian parent wants. :rolleyes:
And btw, its like $25 to take the paper-based version of the SAT.

[scem0]

Originally posted by G4scott
I love it... You can get better grades in normal classes, and be able to get into the top of your class (or close), than by taking the harder classes... Weighting the classes works some, but I know there were a bunch of stupid people ranked higher than me... At least I got into the university I wanted to. That's what I'd focus on in high school. Get good grades. High school educations in Texas are a joke, and I'm not kidding. I won't say that we have a good education system. Not when they fire old, experienced teachers for newer inexperienced teacher just to save some money...

I agree. I hate how my GPA is suffering because I challenged myself freshman and sophmore year!

The minute I quit challenging myself I have a 101.8 in Algebra II (and I don't pay the slightest bit of attention, and do all the homework during lunch) and my GPA goes up! Well, honors classes are weighed on a 5.0 scale, but they are still hard enough to where it will hurt your GPA.

It is sad that less intellegent people, that are less determined are getting into better schools than people who challenge themselves and want to learn. Then again I'm one of the people in the former group. But not because I want to be, but because I have no option.

BTW I want to go to the college that you currently attend :), but nothing is fore sure at the moment.

scem0

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by übergeek
ah jesus...suicide rate for teens is high in places like korea...what a shame...there are so many cute and smart guys...


why the SAT to begin with? i was thinking about takign the ACT instead cause the SAT is wayyyyy too overhyped. Besides its curved. Just because you get a 1600 doesnt mean you get everything right :P
The SAT also only measures your ability to do well on a test. A GPA only shows how well you suck up to your teachers. Really, the ways we measure "intelligence" and stuff like that is totally screwed up. Admit it, half the classes you've ever taken in school (not counting anything above high school) were graded based on how much the teacher likes you, not by how well you do.

And my parents, like all asian parents, are obsessed with this gpa/sat/psat crap. its annoying and even they tell me that when necessary i should suck up to my teachers. I dont want to, and its complete bull****e. Which is why i never get all As. Only 5 As and one B. and my highest SAT score as of now is in the 1400s, not the perfect 1600 that every asian parent wants. :rolleyes:
And btw, its like $25 to take the paper-based version of the SAT.

it was free with me but i was born before the dawn of even mr. anderson...but if my parents paid for it, i didn't see them pay anybody

too many people think that 1600 on the SAT means a 100 percent score and i know it's curved and so do you, but that does not change the general perception and people still shoot for that 1600, no matter what, and those who do reach that magic number go around telling people for life that they got a perfect score on the SAT

my asian parents, mom from tokyo but father born here but of asian descent, both were happy if i did well against the national average, so that's all i shot for and i was happy enough

they pushed me and at times did not see anything but a narrow choice of professions for me down the line like accountant, business owner, medical professional, etc and probably were unaware that other things existed

it will be up to you to change their perception and this will take years...i had a friend from a conservative christian korean family end up going to uc berkeley, the most liberal campus at the time in the usa, and found the most liberal, leftist politically tinged major he could find and excelled there...he made his way against all traditions his family had for him and he took the high road, which was his road

...and he did not become a chinese communist or burn down any buildings on university avenue



:p

[themadchemist]

Originally posted by übergeek
why the SAT to begin with? i was thinking about takign the ACT instead cause the SAT is wayyyyy too overhyped. Besides its curved. Just because you get a 1600 doesnt mean you get everything right :P


Correct on all fronts. But I don't see the relevance. The SAT isn't overhyped as in "Whoa, that's a cool ****in test." It's more popular because more colleges accept its results. Sure, you can go against the grain and take the ACT, but there will definitely be schools that would prefer the SAT. Like I said, the importance of the SAT (and all other standardized tests) lies in its perceived value, not its actual utility in demonstrating a person's intelligence. It's important for what it gets you, not what it shows about you.

Originally posted by übergeek

The SAT also only measures your ability to do well on a test.


And the ACT isn't?

Originally posted by übergeek

A GPA only shows how well you suck up to your teachers.


That's fine, as long as you're not "almost [giving someone] a blowjob," übergeek. ;) (reference to "best gift" thread)

Originally posted by übergeek

Really, the ways we measure "intelligence" and stuff like that is totally screwed up. Admit it, half the classes you've ever taken in school (not counting anything above high school) were graded based on how much the teacher likes you, not by how well you do.


Well, I went to a 500-person high school. The fact that I was though of as a bright kid was not unknown to the teachers. My English teacher was definitely biased, but I like to think that I wrote good papers.

To some degree, teachers like you because you're smart, not because you buy them gifts. I didn't buy my teachers gifts. I did speak to them nicely. I didn't swear at them, but if that's sucking up, then damn, I'm the biggest suck up in the world. There were definitely those who sucked up more than me, but I noted that I was ranked higher than them. Whereas being polite, and nice (sometimes, overly nice and biting your lip when you'd like to say something) is important, I think that your performance is more important.

Of course, in Chemistry, my teacher liked me, esp. when I bounced from an 88 the first six-weeks to a 96 the second. When I turned out to score the highest grade she'd seen on the state final, a 98, but that wasn't high enough to get me an A+ in the class, I did talk to her about my concern about my grade. I asked her if there was anyway I could take it to an A+. Well, she bumped my third six-weeks grade, which I think would have been a 98, to a 100. But that was also because I'd scored extremely high on the final and she was confident that I knew my stuff. It's not just about teachers liking you, after all.

Originally posted by übergeek

And my parents, like all asian parents, are obsessed with this gpa/sat/psat crap. its annoying and even they tell me that when necessary i should suck up to my teachers. I dont want to, and its complete bull****e.


Practical advice maybe? ;) It's better than lying or cheating, as some people do. And wrangling over grades is sometimes o.k., especially if you think a teacher screwed you over. Teachers have brains, too, sometimes, and they can make a call about whether you deserve a grade. Sometimes you do deserve a higher grade, if you've established that you know your material (through cumulative examination success, usually), even though you struggled at one point. And being nice to explain that to teachers it's ok. You'll learn that in college, grading is far more flexible, and that things like improvement are taken into account a lot more, because profs don't have to justify their grades to anyone as much. So being able to talk to people and make a case about your competence and your deserving a grade is an important skill to have. While it doesn't mean performing sexual acts for a person, it does often mean being nice. Diplomacy is an important art of war, and life is war.

Originally posted by übergeek

Which is why i never get all As. Only 5 As and one B. and my highest SAT score as of now is in the 1400s, not the perfect 1600 that every asian parent wants. :rolleyes:
And btw, its like $25 to take the paper-based version of the SAT.

You'll be just fine. You can get into a top 10 school with those scores. Just get a few extracurriculars. Remember, though, that college admissions can be random, especially in the Ivy League. Oh, and also remember to work hard in Organic Chemistry, because, as a good Asian daughter, you will be studying medicine!

[themadchemist]

Originally posted by scem0
I agree. I hate how my GPA is suffering because I challenged myself freshman and sophmore year!

The minute I quit challenging myself I have a 101.8 in Algebra II (and I don't pay the slightest bit of attention, and do all the homework during lunch) and my GPA goes up! Well, honors classes are weighed on a 5.0 scale, but they are still hard enough to where it will hurt your GPA.

It is sad that less intellegent people, that are less determined are getting into better schools than people who challenge themselves and want to learn. Then again I'm one of the people in the former group. But not because I want to be, but because I have no option.

BTW I want to go to the college that you currently attend :), but nothing is fore sure at the moment.

scem0

sorry for the double post, but I'll be brief. Selective schools care about the level of academic rigor through which you put yourself. They won't necessarily like the idea that you started taking easier classes, although grades are important. I wouldn't say that your higher grades challenging yourself less will put you at a comparative advantage. The kids who do the best are the ones who rock the hardest classes--but that's kind of a no-brainer. What isn't a no-brainer is that they don't always get into their top-choice schools. Ok. So I wasn't that brief. Sorry.