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twoodcc
Jun 13, 2008, 07:30 PM
so i am thinking about buying the select membership, but my first question is this:

how long does the membership last? just one year?



Sijmen
Jun 13, 2008, 07:54 PM
Yes, one year.

twoodcc
Jun 13, 2008, 08:01 PM
Yes, one year.

dang, $500 a year. and i would have to use the hardware discount in that year also, correct?

twoodcc
Jun 13, 2008, 08:34 PM
also, can you buy this membership at a retail store, or only online?

twoodcc
Jun 13, 2008, 08:58 PM
well let me ask some advice on the subject:

i am a college student, and my major is CIS (computer information systems)

now, i'm about to graduate this August. but, i don't really have a job lined up at the moment

now, none of my classes have had anything to do with macs. but there's where i want a job, especially something like a system admin

so, i was thinking i could buy this Select membership, since i get Mac OS X and Server, so i can practice on. i would also get Snow Leopard, when it gets seeded.

plus i'd get other stuff to help me out.

what are your thoughts on this?

admanimal
Jun 14, 2008, 12:05 AM
well let me ask some advice on the subject:

i am a college student, and my major is CIS (computer information systems)

now, i'm about to graduate this August. but, i don't really have a job lined up at the moment

now, none of my classes have had anything to do with macs. but there's where i want a job, especially something like a system admin

so, i was thinking i could buy this Select membership, since i get Mac OS X and Server, so i can practice on. i would also get Snow Leopard, when it gets seeded.

plus i'd get other stuff to help me out.

what are your thoughts on this?

ADC Select memberships are really most practical for professional developers who need to make sure their commercial apps will work/are optimized for the latest OS updates. If all you want to do is learn, just get yourself a Mac, a book or two, and start reading through the (free) developer documentation that comes with XCode/is available online.

numero
Jun 14, 2008, 01:44 AM
Do the free stuff like admanimal said.

If you feel the need to spend $500 here are some things to think about.

If you buy the Select membership for $500 you will get a current copy of Leopard Server (as a download, so have a DL burner available) and Snow Leopard when Apple gets around to posting it. Apple gives out Server licenses that expire every 6 months. The license you get with a Select account will eventually time out. You also get to purchase one system at a discount.

You could also just buy OS X Server for $500. You would get Leopard server, but not Snow Leopard. The license would never expire.

Cromulent
Jun 14, 2008, 03:43 AM
You also get to purchase one system at a discount.

It is important to note that the Select membership gives one discount per year, not just one discount.

gazfocus
Jun 14, 2008, 05:32 AM
dang, $500 a year. and i would have to use the hardware discount in that year also, correct?

The Student ADC membership is only $99 a year. If you're a college student you should be able to take advantage of it. The link (http://developer.apple.com/products/student.html)

twoodcc
Jun 14, 2008, 10:37 AM
ADC Select memberships are really most practical for professional developers who need to make sure their commercial apps will work/are optimized for the latest OS updates. If all you want to do is learn, just get yourself a Mac, a book or two, and start reading through the (free) developer documentation that comes with XCode/is available online.

i do have a book on Leopard Server, but with the server, i can't really do anything

Do the free stuff like admanimal said.

If you feel the need to spend $500 here are some things to think about.

If you buy the Select membership for $500 you will get a current copy of Leopard Server (as a download, so have a DL burner available) and Snow Leopard when Apple gets around to posting it. Apple gives out Server licenses that expire every 6 months. The license you get with a Select account will eventually time out. You also get to purchase one system at a discount.

You could also just buy OS X Server for $500. You would get Leopard server, but not Snow Leopard. The license would never expire.

so you think it would be smarter to buy Server for $500? but to me, it seems i get more for my money with the Select Membership for the same amount of money

It is important to note that the Select membership gives one discount per year, not just one discount.

right, but i have to buy another membership to get another one, right?

The Student ADC membership is only $99 a year. If you're a college student you should be able to take advantage of it. The link (http://developer.apple.com/products/student.html)

i know this, but i'm not looking for just a hardware discount

Cromulent
Jun 14, 2008, 11:01 AM
right, but i have to buy another membership to get another one, right?

Correct.

i know this, but i'm not looking for just a hardware discount

Student ADC membership gives you one discount and one discount only.

twoodcc
Jun 14, 2008, 11:18 AM
Correct.



Student ADC membership gives you one discount and one discount only.

yes, i know about the student discount. i looked into getting one last year.

another thing about the select membership: so the seed keys expire every 6 months or so, but lets say i stumble upon another key? i could just use that one. then the $500 wouldn't be so bad (this is just speculation - not that i would do this)

admanimal
Jun 14, 2008, 03:50 PM
i do have a book on Leopard Server, but with the server, i can't really do anything


Are you just trying to get into software development on the Mac? If so, I don't really see why you would need/want to bother with the the Server version of Mac OS at all.

AFAIK the only thing the server version really gets you is some more enterprise IT stuff that is going to be mostly useless for programming. If learning that stuff is actually what you are trying to do rather than programming, then by all means go with the Server edition, but an ADC membership is still going to be pretty useless to you.

twoodcc
Jun 14, 2008, 04:20 PM
Are you just trying to get into software development on the Mac? If so, I don't really see why you would need/want to bother with the the Server version of Mac OS at all.

AFAIK the only thing the server version really gets you is some more enterprise IT stuff that is going to be mostly useless for programming. If learning that stuff is actually what you are trying to do rather than programming, then by all means go with the Server edition, but an ADC membership is still going to be pretty useless to you.

sorry, i meant to say "without the server, the book is useless"

my major is CIS, so i have taken C#, Java, Visual Basic, programming courses, but i would like to get more into IT stuff. that's why i want this membership, so i can learn more about mac programming, and get into mac servers. i would love a job like a system admin or network admin

admanimal
Jun 14, 2008, 08:08 PM
my major is CIS, so i have taken C#, Java, Visual Basic, programming courses, but i would like to get more into IT stuff. that's why i want this membership, so i can learn more about mac programming, and get into mac servers. i would love a job like a system admin or network admin

I see. I'm not familiar with how much application programming being a system or network admin usually involves, but my sense was that it involves more shell scripting and maybe web (Perl, etc.) programming than application level stuff.

What I think is this:

-If you want to learn about Mac programming, both Leopard Server and ADC in general would be pretty useless/overkill.

-If you want to learn about system admin stuff, ADC is still going to be pretty useless, other than maybe getting you Leopard Server. But in reality you might be better off just learning Linux admin stuff, since much of what Leopard Server has is going to be fancy interfaces on top of standard Linux stuff, aside from the very Mac-specific things like iChat Server, etc.

twoodcc
Jun 14, 2008, 08:24 PM
I see. I'm not familiar with how much application programming being a system or network admin usually involves, but my sense was that it involves more shell scripting and maybe web (Perl, etc.) programming than application level stuff.

What I think is this:

-If you want to learn about Mac programming, both Leopard Server and ADC in general would be pretty useless/overkill.

-If you want to learn about system admin stuff, ADC is still going to be pretty useless, other than maybe getting you Leopard Server. But in reality you might be better off just learning Linux admin stuff, since much of what Leopard Server has is going to be fancy interfaces on top of standard Linux stuff, aside from the very Mac-specific things like iChat Server, etc.

thanks for the reply.

here's the thing with me:
i don't have any experience with mac programming, and i've just played around with some mac server stuff.

now i have had some success with java programming. but going from java to cocoa, i'm pretty lost. i know ADC select seems overkill, but just the experience of getting some of the stuff would be good for me.

as far as servers go, i have no experience. i've played around with mac server, and that's it. but now i have a book, so i want to follow the book with setting up a server - another reason to get the adc membership.

but basically this the thing:

with my degree, i could probably get a job with an entry level IT job somewhere using windows machines.

but i really would like a job working on macs, either programming or even better - system admin or network admin. but i don't have any experience in this.
i would like to get certified in leopard server, if i chose to pursue this.

admanimal
Jun 14, 2008, 09:27 PM
Well what I think it comes down to is that if you do the math and it turns out that some kind of ADC membership gets you the hardware and software you want for less than what you would pay otherwise then go for it, otherwise the extra stuff you get with an ADC membership is going to be overkill for you.

MrRage
Jun 14, 2008, 09:30 PM
Hey there,

Yeah I would recommend not getting ADC Select for right now because its not really going to give you a lot right off the bat. Server is a product that uses certificates, and certificates can expire. So it would not be inconceivable that what ever versions of server they do give you will not last longer than your membership. Just something to keep in mind.

I would recommend spending your cash on learning material over and ADC at this time. Get the online one and see if you can stream any WWDC content from previous years to lear more about Objective C and Cocoa.

Added:
If you were getting a dual 23" Mac Pro then yeah you will save a bit with ADC Hardware Purchase over other programs they offer. I think the Student ADC membership gets a single hardware purchase too but not sure.

twoodcc
Jun 15, 2008, 12:19 PM
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thanks for the replies.

I still think it would help me get certified for leopard server, as well as make me learn cocoa

MrRage
Jun 16, 2008, 12:15 AM
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thanks for the replies.

I still think it would help me get certified for leopard server, as well as make me learn cocoa

Your best bet would be the ADC Student Membership at $99.00 if your going to get an ADC membership.

twoodcc
Jun 16, 2008, 09:12 AM
Your best bet would be the ADC Student Membership at $99.00 if your going to get an ADC membership.

but then i don't get any software, right?

Sijmen
Jun 16, 2008, 09:33 AM
but then i don't get any software, right?

I got OS X several times over the course of the year.

twoodcc
Jun 16, 2008, 04:32 PM
I got OS X several times over the course of the year.

oh ok. just not the pre-release versions, and the Server versions, correct?

Sijmen
Jun 16, 2008, 04:39 PM
Well I got my membership in Q3 2005 so that's a while ago now, but I believe I got a new CD at pretty much every minor point release. That was shortly after the Tiger release.

The fun thing is I got OS X sent to me before I got my Mac :P

pjrobertson
Jun 17, 2008, 02:24 AM
Sorry to hijack this thread a bit but...
I'm a student, so I can get an ADC Student membership for $99

Does this mean I get the latest FULL version of Mac OS X (so if Snow Leopard came out within a year I would get a working non-expiring copy?)

And does anybody know how much the hardware discount is for Student members in the UK?

Thanks