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MacRumors
Dec 4, 2003, 11:39 AM
PowerPage claims (http://www.powerpage.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/powerpage.woa/wa/story?newsID=11617) that Apple is working on a "wireless laptop card/solution" that supports AT&T's Edge Network. (http://www.attwireless.com/speed/)

The Edge network (http://www.attwireless.com/speed/) claims to be "the fastest national wireless data network" and offers burst speeds up to 200Kbps and average speeds of 100-130 Kbps.

g30ffr3y
Dec 4, 2003, 11:41 AM
this sounds like a killer idea...

1macker1
Dec 4, 2003, 11:41 AM
AT&T sucks. I bet they will be trying to bundle this service with their LD service.

sethypoo
Dec 4, 2003, 11:43 AM
Wow! Great! I live in one of the Edge areas, this is a great network!

trog
Dec 4, 2003, 11:50 AM
That's like ~15k/sec isn't it? Why is that considered fast?

rabatjoie
Dec 4, 2003, 11:53 AM
it's considered fast because it is a long-range network similar to the cellphone network... dunno, here in europe we have different names for the systems - i think the equivalent is GPRS or something.

pcp_ip
Dec 4, 2003, 11:55 AM
too bad the EDGE network sucks at this point. Review here (http://www.whateversclever.net/sereview.php)

Quote: "While downloading large files, I had a sustained download speed of about 2.1K"

mainstreetmark
Dec 4, 2003, 12:07 PM
well, just today, I exhausted cable modem and DSL as a potential high-speed data provider at my new home, and today I was going to order a phone line and a dialup plan. I would never use the phone line for anything but dialup, and hate the idea of a $30/mo phone plus a $20/mo dialup.

So, then, my plan was to take this 56k signal and route it through my 54,000k 802.11g wireless router. How massively sucky.

MacsRgr8
Dec 4, 2003, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by rabatjoie
it's considered fast because it is a long-range network similar to the cellphone network... dunno, here in europe we have different names for the systems - i think the equivalent is GPRS or something.

Yeah. We have GPRS over here, but that speed is max. around 50 Kb/s.
So this should be faster...

chazmox
Dec 4, 2003, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by rabatjoie
it's considered fast because it is a long-range network similar to the cellphone network... dunno, here in europe we have different names for the systems - i think the equivalent is GPRS or something.

Actually EDGE is the follow on spec to GPRS. EDGE utilizes 8-PSK modulation as opposed to GPRS's QPSK. Should be double the through-put of GPRS. Realizable throughput may be higher because of how slot's are allocated between users.

EDGE radios actually revert back to a GPRS when they experience weak signal and poor BER at the 8-PSK modulation.

I'm surprised that AT&T has a network build-out issue. When AT&T was installing their GPRS network they could have purchased EDGE ready networks for a small additional cost ( 10%?). Then they would only have to flip the switch and start utilizing EDGE ( it is 100% backward compatible with GPRS ). Seems like they did not take this route.

There are other limitations on receive speed besides what the network can support. There may still be issues on what the card can process ( ASIC/backend processing can limit decoding speeds ). Also, AT&T will probably limit multiple slot ( the only way to get to the 128kbits ) to high paying users.

Vonnie
Dec 4, 2003, 12:33 PM
Wasn't there something faster 3GP? But then, I get allot of cool-sounding acronyms thrown at me, and I have no idea wtf they mean.

idkew
Dec 4, 2003, 12:33 PM
who cares? where's 3G?

i can get close to this with bluetooth and a gprs cell phone. gimme 3g baby!

COS
Dec 4, 2003, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by idkew
[B]who cares? where's 3G?

3G networks pose a threat to mass adoption of 802.11g and 802.11b

The idea is to make hot spots all around the city to give us internet access anywhere we go... and take the lions share of the power away from the wireless telcos so that they will stop gouging us for wireless fees.

Because of this fact, it is very unlikely that you will see companies that have a vested interest in 802.11b/g networks (Apple) supporting monolothic wireless network standards.

WiFi is about giving power to the people. Lets keep it that way.

JtheLemur
Dec 4, 2003, 12:47 PM
I doubt that Apple would back a stopgap network like EDGE (on the way to WCDMA), not to mention I dont know anyone that takes mobile data seriously that actually HAS AT&T. They're the absolute worst in the industry hands down.

Even though that review is bad, I dont believe for a second that it's faster than Sprint's CDMA 1X Vision network. 2.1K/sec for big downloads? I get regular speeds of 15K/sec+ in NYC using my Sanyo phone on Sprint's network. And so do many many others.

I'm bitter. :D

whooleytoo
Dec 4, 2003, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by idkew
who cares? where's 3G?

i can get close to this with bluetooth and a gprs cell phone. gimme 3g baby!

Wow, what speeds are you getting?

I don't have my GPRS details, so I had to resort to analog dialup/bluetooth, at 9.6kb. (But only while my DSL connection went down thankfully!)

rabatjoie
Dec 4, 2003, 01:03 PM
3G-GPRS-EDGE-wtf?

I thought 3G was referring to the UMTS standard. could someone clarify all these obscure abbreviations? as far as i know, UMTS is the fastest of all these standards, allowing streaming hi-res video and stuff. but i agree that we should stick with the grassroots-wifi-approach. in germany, the companies paid billions for the UMTS licences - so the services are definitely not going to be cheap, once they become available.

Wonder Boy
Dec 4, 2003, 01:35 PM
at&t wireless sucks. i had their mobile service, that lasted about week. i switched to cingular and a (gasp) moto phone.

scem0
Dec 4, 2003, 01:36 PM
AT&T gets really good (mobile phone) service where I live, so I'm betting wireless internet service would pwn.

So this is good news for me. But I have heard numerous stories of horrible service with AT&T.

But overall its a great idea IMO.

scem0

bretm
Dec 4, 2003, 01:39 PM
Verizon and Tmobile offer the same speeds over their serivice. Sorry I don't know the technical jargon.

What it comes down to is it's generally twice as fast as a 56k modem. Sometimes slower, sometimes faster. If you've been on DSL this will feel the same as a modem to you.

Comcast cable has now doubled their internet speed. Where I used to get 2.1 or 2.2 megabits a sec, it now tests at upwards of 4.2 megabits a sec. That's pretty extreme considering 2.2 is the most I've ever seen out of my ifitl (fiberoptic dsl line) and usually it's around 1.5-1.7.

Bandwidthplace.com is the best testing I've seen. Dedicated testing servers.

So, for minor web browsing and email this new service is ok. But I'll betcha it costs as much as DSL like Tmobile and Verizon.

madmark
Dec 4, 2003, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by bretm
Verizon and Tmobile offer the same speeds over their serivice. Sorry I don't know the technical jargon.

Verizon has started deploying the "next generation" high speed. Techical term is CDMA 1XEV-DO.

From:
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/mobileoptions/broadband/index.jsp

Verizon Wireless BroadbandAccess, available today in the Washington, D.C. and San Diego areas.

...typical speeds of 300-500 kbps, capable of reaching speeds up to 2 Mbps...

-MM

JtheLemur
Dec 4, 2003, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by bretm
Verizon and Tmobile offer the same speeds over their serivice. Sorry I don't know the technical jargon.

I can't comment directly since I've never tested out Verizon's current 'Express' service, but technically Verizon should be a lot faster than T-Mobile. Vzn uses CDMA 1X, TMo uses GRPS. 1X is faster than GPRS no matter what, no matter where.

gschumsky
Dec 4, 2003, 06:58 PM
I'm in San Diego (!!!), and a Verizon customer, but haven't found out if they make a card for my Powerbook . If they did, I'd get rid of Cox internet and move my phone and data to Verizon. Then I could walk all over the office with it, go over to the beach (5 minute drive from work)...THAT would be sweet!:D

mdntcallr
Dec 4, 2003, 07:23 PM
I have great service on my 3g cell phone with Att, but this is a matter of huge concern to me

I just bought a 15" powerbook, recently went into a t-mobile and sprint store to look at their laptop wireless cards. also ATT.

NONE OF THEM ARE MAC compatible!!!!!!

The salesperson said that many people come in asking for cards for their portable macs, and he has to turn away them all.

THIS IS A HUGE PROBLEM. I would have bought one today, but it wouldnt work with my mac. also, att is supposed to be faster than sprint, tmobile or cingular's system.

But that wont help if it isnt mac compatible.

bretm
Dec 4, 2003, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by gschumsky
I'm in San Diego (!!!), and a Verizon customer, but haven't found out if they make a card for my Powerbook . If they did, I'd get rid of Cox internet and move my phone and data to Verizon. Then I could walk all over the office with it, go over to the beach (5 minute drive from work)...THAT would be sweet!:D

You just use your verizon phone and a cheap cable.

Fukui
Dec 4, 2003, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by mdntcallr
I have great service on my 3g cell phone with Att, but this is a matter of huge concern to me

I just bought a 15" powerbook, recently went into a t-mobile and sprint store to look at their laptop wireless cards. also ATT.

NONE OF THEM ARE MAC compatible!!!!!!

The salesperson said that many people come in asking for cards for their portable macs, and he has to turn away them all.

THIS IS A HUGE PROBLEM. I would have bought one today, but it wouldnt work with my mac. also, att is supposed to be faster than sprint, tmobile or cingular's system.

But that wont help if it isnt mac compatible.
Not any more... (http://www.novamedia.de/presse/e_presse_bilder.html#Anchor-49575)

There are others that you can find as well.
Google is you friend. :)

powerbookje
Dec 5, 2003, 02:43 AM
http://www.sonyericsson.com/gc75/

the GC75 is mac comptabile, not out of the box, but you can find free mac drivers @ versiontracker.com, works great!!

powerbookje
Dec 5, 2003, 09:55 AM
and check this
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/16802

a driver for most cards

and the opensource drivers @ http://wirelessdriver.sourceforge.net/index.html

gschumsky
Dec 5, 2003, 11:12 AM
Yes, my cell phone and a cheap cable would work fine if I wanted to use the normal national wireless service (too slow), but to take advantage of the broadband service, then I'd need the special card they have and a Mac driver for it (and it's a data only service, thus the ability for higher speeds).

gschumsky
Dec 5, 2003, 11:27 AM
Those links to Versiontracker and the open source drivers are for Airport, or 802.11b, which is nice if you are at home, in an office or near a Starbucks with wireless connectivity. The problem with 802.11 is it only works up to 300 feet. What ticks me off is the stupid Centrino commercials with people sitting out in the middle of nowhere, and supposedly getting online. It makes the PC users think that Centrino is the magic connection to getting on the web anywhere, literally, without cables and wires, when in fact it's just a chip with 802.11 drivers (a and b, not g) built in.
What's nice about Verizon is it is offering true high speed, broadband connectivity (in limited areas for now, but that will change). This is important because it is the beginning of what has been called 3G (good for watching sports, movie trailers, etc. on your 3G mobile phone). The more people that buy into it, the more it will expand (remember the early days of cell phones?), and the more affordable it will become.

mdntcallr
Dec 5, 2003, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by Fukui
Not any more... (http://www.novamedia.de/presse/e_presse_bilder.html#Anchor-49575)

There are others that you can find as well.
Google is you friend. :)

Thanks for the help. I will look more into this.

But honestly, this is a big problem for the user who wants simple plug and play. Apple needs to create relationships with each wireless carrier, and around the world, to make sure that their devices get top quality connectivity. Not to go around looking for a program which only those "in the know" can use.

We need Apple connectivity out of the box straight from the cellular providers.

That will help apple sell more computers!!

mdntcallr
Dec 5, 2003, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by powerbookje
and check this
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/16802

a driver for most cards

and the opensource drivers @ http://wirelessdriver.sourceforge.net/index.html

Err this is for True Cellular type Wireless, NOT 802.11 type Wifi.

These drivers are not applicable to what we are discussing.

powerbookje
Dec 5, 2003, 12:33 PM
sorry, confused. The GC75 SE is a GPRS card (first post)

Fukui
Dec 5, 2003, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by mdntcallr
Thanks for the help. I will look more into this.

But honestly, this is a big problem for the user who wants simple plug and play. Apple needs to create relationships with each wireless carrier, and around the world, to make sure that their devices get top quality connectivity. Not to go around looking for a program which only those "in the know" can use.

We need Apple connectivity out of the box straight from the cellular providers.

That will help apple sell more computers!!
Yes it is. You know about mobile office that comes with some verizon phones? The same company that makes the software for the windows version also sells a OSX version...but....only the window version is uncluded in mobile office..., so you gotta pay twice as much....how craptastic!!

Sunrunner
Dec 6, 2003, 05:53 AM
I think the introduction of EDGE cards would be a great idea; at least for an initial capability. Does anyone know what such services generally run?

rbarkman
Dec 9, 2003, 02:38 PM
Someone asked me to brew up a Mac script for a Motorola EDGE phone. In fact, my standard Moto GPRS scripts were just as good, because EDGE uses the same command syntax. He was getting about 56k performance, but nothing faster - that may have been a limitation of the USB-serial cable he was using, or of the current AT&T network setup.

My GPRS scripts are at http://www.taniwha.org.uk

Kia ora,
Ross