Honda Civic #1 Selling US Vehicle

[obeygiant]

Coupled with GM’s news that the company will be closing plants and scaling back SUV production, the word that the F150 is finally not the country’s best-selling vehicle seems to put the final nail in the coffin of American gas guzzling. Sure, there are still tons of F150s selling (a lot of them to people who don’t really need them), but this change represents one of the biggest swings in the US auto market recently.

Here are May’s top five selling vehicles:

Honda Civic - 53,299
Toyota Corolla - 52,826
Toyota Camry - 51,291
Honda Accord - 43,728
Ford F-150 - 42,973

Overall, most of the automakers were way down in sales, except for Nissan and Honda, with Honda posting an increase of 11%. Strong sales of traditional economy cars show that people are not just trying to save money on gas, but are buying less expensive, less powerful cars in order to cope with an economic slowdown.link (http://www.ecomodder.com/blog/2008/06/12/civic-outsells-f-150-for-first-time-ever/)

I just leased a civic on June 1 for $211 a month for 3 years @ 12k miles a year. The car is great - zippy and solid. I'm 6 1 and I fit in the car just fine except for the fact that the emergency break digs into my leg. The sales guy said he had 75 civics at the beginning of may and I got the second to last one. Because of the high gas prices the cars were just flying off the lot. Being from Detroit I was wondering how much of the car was made domestic. The sticker said 70 percent was made in Ohio and the transmission was made in Japan. Not that I have anything against foreign cars.

The car gets 25 city and 39 highway. My calculations over 2 tanks of gas and some quick take offs put me at 29 MPH.

[CorvusCamenarum]

My last car was a Civic. It was great; I could fart in the gas tank and drive for a week. Nowadays we take the fiancee's Civic everywhere if at all possible.

Sadly, I remember when $40 would fill up my tank (2000 Mustang). Now, $40 barely fills up her tank.

I'd love a Tesla.

[mkrishnan]

Great win for Honda. I'll be curious to see how the year ends up. The F150 is probably never (thankfully) going to get back to the 800-900,000 units sold per year in its heyday. But when was the last time the Civic broke even 400,000 units in the US in one year? I think it was around 330k last year, wasn't it, which was a small gain from 2006? They might be on track to break 400k this year, which would be fantastic for them.

Apparently they are running about 8-10% of sales as hybrids right now, which is also great.

I think the new Civic series is very pretty -- maybe the prettiest Honda badged cars ever. The new Accord is fairly pretty also, but I think the Civic is a knockout by Honda standards.

I wish Civics were more fun to drive, though. I found the clutch very unsatisfying. The suspension is kind of dull, too, and I don't find the steering precise enough. I can live with the engine being anemic, in return for the fuel economy, but the sloppy chassis is something I have a harder time accepting, since there isn't any obvious link between those design decisions and reducing the car's environmental impact.

The car gets 25 city and 39 highway. My calculations over 2 tanks of gas and some quick take offs put me at 29 MPH.

This is something I've noticed about Honda cars. It seems that people get accurate to low numbers compared to stated on fuel economy, whereas the stated numbers seem low (meaning actuals are higher) for some other brands. Your average over the last two tanks is surprisingly actually probably slightly lower than my Mazda6, which of course weighs quite a bit more and has a significantly more powerful engine (very slightly ... meaning I've been getting 30-31 MPG combined average, but 28 is a "bad" tank for that car over the 30,000 miles I've had it). But in contrast I'm not supposed to be getting 30MPG even in pure highway driving. And I like to push the engine hard once in a while just to get that orgasmic satisfaction when I drop it into gear from the redline. :o

[Vster]

That's awesome, Civics are pretty cars. I drive a Scion tC and get about 28 mpg and thats almost all highway (Beats the crap out of my '99 Camaro SS that got 16 mpg city :eek:). My wife drives a Scion xA and gets about 35-40 highway. When we ever decide to buy our next car it will hopefully be some sort of hybrid. :D

[ErikCLDR]

Yea the high gas prices are making people switch to more fuel efficient cars (although in some cases people are stupid and just keep the car they have and take the hit on the gas rather than buying an entirely new car, but I suppose there is some principal).

I drove by a Toyota dealer in a pretty ritzy town. Instead of seeing a lot of SUVs there was 1 Landcruiser and just tonnnns of priuses.

[neiltc13]

I would love to know where the myth that small cars have little interior room came from. A Honda Civic is by no means a small car (I'd call it a medium sized). Maybe you are just needing to adjust your seat.

[PlaceofDis]

i can't say that i find this at all surprising really. although the civic is a mid-sized car, so its not the absolute best on fuel economy, but hey its a step in the right direction. 29mpg? i get that in my 95 tercel.

[Abstract]

I didn't even know the F-150 was the best-selling car in America. That is so incredibly strange to me. A truck is the best selling car in America? Do that many people need trucks, or is it just an "image" thing? Was it featured in a lot of rap videos or something? That usually boosts car sales.

[nizz]

That's awesome, Civics are pretty cars. I drive a Scion tC and get about 28 mpg and thats almost all highway (Beats the crap out of my '99 Camaro SS that got 16 mpg city :eek:). My wife drives a Scion xA and gets about 35-40 highway. When we ever decide to buy our next car it will hopefully be some sort of hybrid. :D

I too drive a scion tc and I'm getting a prius soon. It's funny because I've met a lot of other scion tc owners the past couple years and most of them have moved on to hybrids or other eco-friendly cars. You'd think that since the target group of the tc was low 20's, most would be moving on to sportier cars, but very few are

[wordmunger]

I didn't even know the F-150 was the best-selling car in America. That is so incredibly strange to me. A truck is the best selling car in America? Do that many people need trucks, or is it just an "image" thing? Was it featured in a lot of rap videos or something? That usually boosts car sales.
Americans love their trucks. I'd say they're more likely to be in a country video than a rap video though.

[danny_w]

I didn't even know the F-150 was the best-selling car in America. That is so incredibly strange to me. A truck is the best selling car in America? Do that many people need trucks, or is it just an "image" thing? Was it featured in a lot of rap videos or something? That usually boosts car sales.
I don't really get it either. If you include the F-150 and its predecessors the F-100 and F-1, it has been the best selling vehicle in America for the past 50+ years (or more) except for a few years now and then.

On another note, I will be looking for a new car in another year or two, and I have noticed that the smaller cars don't get nearly as good mileage as they used to get. Part of that I think is the revised EPA ratings that may or may not be more accurate, but I know when shopping for a car for my wife a few years ago, the 2002 Civic was rated at 31 city, and now I believe it is in the mid 20's. Is it really that much worse, or is it only the EPA ratings that have changed? And if I remember correctly, there were several small cars in the 90's that got over 30mpg city.

[wordmunger]

Is it really that much worse, or is it only the EPA ratings that have changed? And if I remember correctly, there were several small cars in the 90's that got over 30mpg city.

I think the EPA ratings are tougher now. The tests were done in "ideal" conditions that you never find in the real world. The new ratings are a little lower and a lot more realistic.

[mkrishnan]

I think the EPA ratings are tougher now. The tests were done in "ideal" conditions that you never find in the real world. The new ratings are a little lower and a lot more realistic.

Yeah, the change is predominantly because of the EPA requirements.

A very small portion may also be due to downstream effects of complying with the emissions aspect of the requirements (e.g. emissions requirements cut the HP and torque the engine can produce, which in turns causes the driver to push the engine harder to get the same expected performance, which in turn causes a loss in fuel economy), and in some cases to making engineering changes for enhanced performance vs. economy (not just in terms of high HP engines but also in the sense of vehicle size and features -- the Civic for instance weighs a lot more now than would have been considered reasonable for a C-segment vehicle ten years ago, and indeed, is perhaps almost too big to be a C-segment vehicle now).

[quagmire]

Just a FYI, the Camry and Corolla numbers are a bit skewed. Toyota lumps the Solara into the Camry sales number and the Matrix into the Corolla sales number.

[mkrishnan]

Just a FYI, the Camry and Corolla numbers are a bit skewed. Toyota lumps the Solara into the Camry sales number and the Matrix into the Corolla sales number.

That's a good point, although in the Camry case, the Accord has a coupe variant also, which would also be lumped in (since it is actually still called an Accord). Putting the Matrix into the Corolla numbers has always been a stretch, but meh, it's Toyota's choice. And of course, the F- trucks and the Chevy Silverado have so many variants that it always has been a weird comparison to relatively simple-to-configure cars.

[Abstract]

Small cars have actually gotten a lot bigger. They're still small, but park beside a car that's supposed to be much bigger, and you'll see that your small car isn't much shorter than a mid-sized car.


Also, I think the "problem" is that any time a car company finds a way to improve efficiency, they use it as an excuse to raise the engine power while maintaining the same fuel efficiency as before. They've kept fuel consumption a constant and improved performance, which means you never actually "see" the improvement in fuel consumption. "Oh, we've made our engine more efficient. Now we can make it more powerful, while the car can also be made larger, and we won't pollute any more than before." That may not be the best way to think about things from an environmental perspective.

If the opposite was done instead --- keep engine power constant while fuel efficiency improves --- maybe we'd get somewhere. Oh, and keeping small cars "small" would also help.

[dmr727]

Small cars have actually gotten a lot bigger. They're still small, but park beside a car that's supposed to be much bigger, and you'll see that your small car isn't much shorter than a mid-sized car.


Even the mid sizes have gotten bigger. I've owned several generations of Accords from the late 80s to my wife's '07, and they just keep getting bigger and bigger. Today's Civic is bigger than my 1990 Accord was.

[mkrishnan]

Small cars have actually gotten a lot bigger. They're still small, but park beside a car that's supposed to be much bigger, and you'll see that your small car isn't much shorter than a mid-sized car.

Actually, even 9-10 years ago when I was starting in engineering, C-segment cars were always about 8-10 inches shorter than typical "midsize" or C/D cars. They've always been close in length, and the Minivan type cars have always been relatively short in overall length. What you are saying though is more true, in the sense that if you take a C car from today and a C/D car from 1-2 generations ago, this difference of 8-10 inches shrinks or vanishes altogether, sometimes. But only sometimes. For instance, the new 2008 Civic sedan appears to be 177" in overall length, and my 6 (which is still in production, but having come out about six model years ago, is kind of one generation back in design) is 186". And while it is longer than my last C-segment car (2000 Focus), not by *that* much -- the Focus was 175" long.

I drive a midsize car, but it's one of the smallest ones (Mazda6)... it's already too big for me, though, to be honest. Makes me want a fracking Mini already....

[nizz]

Small cars have actually gotten a lot bigger. They're still small, but park beside a car that's supposed to be much bigger, and you'll see that your small car isn't much shorter than a mid-sized car.


Also, I think the "problem" is that any time a car company finds a way to improve efficiency, they use it as an excuse to raise the engine power while maintaining the same fuel efficiency as before. They've kept fuel consumption a constant and improved performance, which means you never actually "see" the improvement in fuel consumption. "Oh, we've made our engine more efficient. Now we can make it more powerful, while the car can also be made larger, and we won't pollute any more than before." That may not be the best way to think about things from an environmental perspective.

If the opposite was done instead --- keep engine power constant while fuel efficiency improves --- maybe we'd get somewhere. Oh, and keeping small cars "small" would also help.

Thats a good point, those small cars sure did get bigger. But I actually like it that way. After all, fuel efficiency is still #2 on my list, #1 is safety and I really wouldn't feel comfortable driving in a 2000 pound car when other people are driving in 4500 pound vehicles

[PlaceofDis]

Thats a good point, those small cars sure did get bigger. But I actually like it that way. After all, fuel efficiency is still #2 on my list, #1 is safety and I really wouldn't feel comfortable driving in a 2000 pound car when other people are driving in 4500 pound vehicles

just because a car is small and weighs less doesn't mean it can't be safe. its this line of thinking that helped push more people to buy SUVs.

edit: and i think one of the smallest cars on the US market today other than the few Smarts is the Yaris hatchback. i think it is a little shorter than my Tercel actually, but not by much, surely just as wide though.

[Motley]

i can't say that i find this at all surprising really. although the civic is a mid-sized car, so its not the absolute best on fuel economy, but hey its a step in the right direction. 29mpg? i get that in my 95 tercel.

Hell, my 95 tercel got 37 on the last fill-up and that was normal driving (usually I get around 34). Once on a long highway trip I got over 42.:D

[nizz]

just because a car is small and weighs less doesn't mean it can't be safe. its this line of thinking that helped push more people to buy SUVs.

edit: and i think one of the smallest cars on the US market today other than the few Smarts is the Yaris hatchback. i think it is a little shorter than my Tercel actually, but not by much, surely just as wide though.

It makes it safer and that's all that matters to me. Can't really beat physics here. I live in this retarded city and witness people drive straight through red lights at full speed all the time. If I get hit by one of these guys I would much rather be in a 2800 pound of modern day civics than a 2100 pound civic 15 years ago

[PlaceofDis]

Hell, my 95 tercel got 37 on the last fill-up and that was normal driving (usually I get around 34). Once on a long highway trip I got over 42.:D

mine gets lowed a lot by the start/stop traffic that is predominant in Chicago.

[yg17]

I had a 2007 Civic as a rental and hated it. But, I hated it for reasons that don't matter to most people, a lack of low-end torque, and it was an automatic. Plus, it was missing Sirius and steering wheel controls for the radio, 2 things I love about my car. But since most people don't care about those things, I can certainly see why it's such a good seller. I drove it around all weekend and only had to put $6 in gas in it (This was a couple months ago, so it was at around $3.70/gallon) to fill it back up.

And if you make sure the trunk is empty and put the seats down, small cars have a ton of interior room. I have a 2008 VW GTI (2 door, well, 3 if you count the hatch) and I've had a giant chest of drawers, a bookcase, and a 40" widescreen LCD TV back there (not at the same time) and they all fit with room to spare.

The occasional time I buy something that's too big to fit, I make sure to buy it from someplace that delivers. I have never said "damn, I wish I had an SUV" because despite what some people in this country think, your average American can get through life without an SUV or truck

[iJohnHenry]

Ahem. ;)

However, Kia is the fastest-growing carmaker in the world and the fact that the losses in operating profit occurred against a 12.6% increase in global sales must not be overlooked. Indeed, herein lies the reason why one should not be unduly pessimistic in assessing Kia's outlook.

In Europe, where the Korean carmaker sells 60% of its cars, new registrations between January and May soared by more than 65%. With an eye on annual sales of more than 200,000 cars, Kia has been rather articulate about its expansion plans for this market. For example, the company is building a European design centre in Germany, focused on developing cars that will be even more appealing to European buyers.

Should both the won and steel prices ease up, as analysts believe they will, Kia's profits will come to reflect its sales volumes. A further boost to the bottom line is likely to come from the increased sharing of vehicle platforms with parent Hyundai. Hyundai sees this as a strategic step on the way towards it entering the top five global carmakers list by 2009. Kia's burgeoning sales growth means you would not bet against it realizing this vision.

A proud KIA owner. 

[mkrishnan]

If I get hit by one of these guys I would much rather be in a 2800 pound of modern day civics than a 2100 pound civic 15 years ago

I do see your general point, but you should, for your own safety, which is clearly very important to you, look at other metrics. Here's a counterpoint, for instance. Saabs have notoriously low fatality rates -- pretty well recognized as being the lowest in the industry, something about which every engineer at every OEM knows. We don't know exactly why -- mix of the car's engineering, the way people who drive Saabs drive, and also the places they live, no doubt. But bear in mind that this reputation continued to be honed through the late nineties at the height of the big truck SUV mania. Saabs don't weigh 2000 lbs, but they don't weigh 5000 lbs either. There's more to accident safety than just the size of the vehicle. There's more to accident physics than just the size of the vehicle.

[rhsgolfer33]

Yea the high gas prices are making people switch to more fuel efficient cars (although in some cases people are stupid and just keep the car they have and take the hit on the gas rather than buying an entirely new car, but I suppose there is some principal).

Why is that stupid? My car gets pretty crappy gas mileage, about 17 mpg with mostly city driving. If I were to switch to a Honda Civic and sell my truck, assuming I went with the EX-L model of the Honda (the lowest model I would consider buying) at about $20,000, and I sold my truck for blue book, $11,000, I would owe $9000. Assuming I got the 29 mpg one civic driver above got as compared to my 17 mpg, driving the 15,000 miles per year I drive, it would take about 517 gallons of gas per year, my truck would take 882 gallons per year. So multiply 517 gallons by $4.75 per gallon and you get about $2,456 per year, my truck comes out to $4,190. There is a difference of $1,734 per year, with that difference it would take about five years to make up the $9000 outlay for that car. Now, I know gas will go up in that time, and $4.75 is an increased number (I don't actually pay that) but buying a new Civic really wouldn't be worth it for me. Since I wasn't planning on getting a new car before this gas spike, and since my car is only four years old and has less that 60,000 miles on it, it would probably be stupid for me to go buy a new fuel efficient car. Maybe I'll consider a used one, but seeing as how the new Accord coupe just came out, and Civics with leather are fairly new, it probably won't be happening for at least two years.

Its really about being fiscally responsible, had I been looking for a new car now, yeah, it would probably be a fuel efficient one, but trading in the car you bought a year or two ago that gets bad gas mileage just because you think you'll save money by getting a newer fuel efficient car might not actually be the best idea. Then again, I'm in Accounting, so I actually think about these kinds of things unlike a lot of Americans :coughoutrageousdebtcough:

[mac daddy]

I didn't even know the F-150 was the best-selling car in America. That is so incredibly strange to me. A truck is the best selling car in America? Do that many people need trucks, or is it just an "image" thing? Was it featured in a lot of rap videos or something? That usually boosts car sales.

Sales figures for trucks tend to be driven (no pun intended) upward by fleet sales to businesses and rental companies.

[GSMiller]

The Civic is one ugly car if you ask me.

[apfhex]

I'm 6 1 and I fit in the car just fine except for the fact that the emergency break digs into my leg.
Honestly I had no idea the F150 was the top selling vehicle. Clearly popular, but if you would have asked me before seeing this thread, I would have guessed the Civic to have been #1 for a while. I would have loved to get one myself but after sitting in countless cars when shopping, I realized that at 6'5"ish I'm not comfortable in any compact (with the single exception of the Ford Focus, which I would /not/ consider buying), with my leg crammed up against the steering column and sometimes the steering wheel itself. Maybe in a few years the "compact" models will be big enough for me. :p

[Rodimus Prime]

i can't say that i find this at all surprising really. although the civic is a mid-sized car, so its not the absolute best on fuel economy, but hey its a step in the right direction. 29mpg? i get that in my 95 tercel.

this civic is NOT a mid size car. The civic is a compact car. An accord is a Mid size.

My only problem with the civic is it is 2 small for me. I am 6'4" and I need a larger car. I currently drive a sentra and it is 2 small for me. I want a mid size and plan on replacing my sentra with a mid size car in the next few years.

[Rodimus Prime]

Thats a good point, those small cars sure did get bigger. But I actually like it that way. After all, fuel efficiency is still #2 on my list, #1 is safety and I really wouldn't feel comfortable driving in a 2000 pound car when other people are driving in 4500 pound vehicles

you do know that major car accidents are single car accidents. Throw out all the finder benders and it comes down to quite a few single car accidents.

[nizz]

you do know that major car accidents are single car accidents. Throw out all the finder benders and it comes down to quite a few single car accidents.

Yeah, well a bad driver in a big car is gonna still be a bad driver in a small car.

And I'm pretty sure those single car accident statistics differs everywhere. My area is high accident-prone. I see 2-3 car collisions every single day, but you can tell from my insurance bills alone. It was $400 for 6 months when I was away at school. Now that I've moved back, it is $1300 for the same policy every 6 months.

There is a very high chance I'm gonna drive defensively and still get into a major accident because of all the idiots. I don't even want to think about all the people without insurance

edit: by '2-3 car collisions' I mean one accident involving 2-3 cars

[Chip NoVaMac]

Maybe time to de-tune even the gas sippers for better MPG than performance. I remember when the Avalon got 32mpg Hwy.... the Cooper should do better than it does - but here in the US it is about the power :(

[SteveG4Cube]

I had a 2007 Civic as a rental and hated it. But, I hated it for reasons that don't matter to most people, a lack of low-end torque, and it was an automatic. Plus, it was missing Sirius and steering wheel controls for the radio, 2 things I love about my car. But since most people don't care about those things, I can certainly see why it's such a good seller. I drove it around all weekend and only had to put $6 in gas in it (This was a couple months ago, so it was at around $3.70/gallon) to fill it back up.

And if you make sure the trunk is empty and put the seats down, small cars have a ton of interior room. I have a 2008 VW GTI (2 door, well, 3 if you count the hatch) and I've had a giant chest of drawers, a bookcase, and a 40" widescreen LCD TV back there (not at the same time) and they all fit with room to spare.

I've got an '06 Civic, I average 34-35mpg on my daily commute which is about 80% highway and 20% stop-and-go. I've gotten a best of 38mpg on a straight highway trip. I love every single thing about the car, build quality, fit and finish, seats, ride/handling, reliability... but I agree it's a bit on the slow side.

I just sold my "fun" car recently because my wife and I had our first child, and now I'm thinking of getting a GTI so that I can have some fun and still have a practical daily driver that gets decent mileage. How many miles are on your GTI? Any issues with it? Do you have the FSI or TSI engine?

[SteveG4Cube]

Edit-double post

[Cheffy Dave]

The Civic is one ugly car if you ask me.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: I'll have what he's smokin:rolleyes:

[iJohnHenry]

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: I'll have what he's mokin:rolleyes:

Leave him be. It's subjective, even though he IS wrong. :D

The Si is one nasty little machine. :eek:

Don't like the premium requirement though.

[yg17]

I just sold my "fun" car recently because my wife and I had our first child, and now I'm thinking of getting a GTI so that I can have some fun and still have a practical daily driver that gets decent mileage. How many miles are on your GTI? Any issues with it? Do you have the FSI or TSI engine?

I've got about 4,100 miles so far. So far, the only issue that popped up was the Sirius Radio tuner crapped out, which was replaced by the dealer under warranty, so not really a big deal. I typically get between 28 and 30 MPG highway, although last week, I did 30 miles highway in light traffic, averaging about 65 MPH and I got 35 MPG. This is all according to the trip computer, I don't know how accurate it is and have yet to do the calculations myself. And I believe it's the FSI engine, but I'm not too knowledgeable on VW engines so you may want to Google it just to be sure

[SteveG4Cube]

And I believe it's the FSI engine, but I'm not too knowledgeable on VW engines so you may want to Google it just to be sure

The reason I ask is the newer TSI engine, which addresses alot of the issues that the FSI engine's known for, is a mid-year change. I'm on the fence between buying a used/leftover FSI engine to save the money or going for the newer TSI engine in the hopes of not having to deal with the known problems with the older engine. I drive like 25k/year, so I need something reliable (hence the Civic :D )

[mkrishnan]

VWExperienceSnip

The diesel Jetta/Golf/etc variants are supposed to come back to the States this fall. I'm quite curious to see what the new generation Jetta looks like with the diesel engine.

[fourthtunz]

i can't say that i find this at all surprising really. although the civic is a mid-sized car, so its not the absolute best on fuel economy, but hey its a step in the right direction. 29mpg? i get that in my 95 tercel.

I was going to say, I'm looking at getting a '95 honda civic. The 92-95 civics got 49-55 mpg depending on which one you get.
I'm going to hate giving up my 2003 accord but averaging 26 mpg isn't good enough these days.
Honda in the late 90's, like everyone else made their cars heavier and with bigger motors, too bad.:o
We americans have got some real **** coming down though and people still don't get it.
When we've lost our jobs next year what is a new car or and old one that gets 17 mpg going to do for us?

[QCassidy352]

I'm looking to buy a car and a civic is my top choice. I wanted a civic hybrid before they were cool, but now the premiums seem too much to pay.

I've looked in to getting a used civic, but the damn things hold their value so well that getting a 4 year old car with 30K miles only saves about $4000 off the same model new! :eek:

[SteveG4Cube]

I've looked in to getting a used civic, but the damn things hold their value so well that getting a 4 year old car with 30K miles only saves about $4000 off the same model new! :eek:


And that's a GOOD thing. When you're ready to sell it, it'll still have that same great resale so your cost of ownership will be alot less than any other car.

[quagmire]

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: I'll have what he's smokin:rolleyes:

Yeah, the sedan is a bit funky looking, but the coupe is nice and sleek. And it is better looking then the new Corolla. :)

[yg17]

The reason I ask is the newer TSI engine, which addresses alot of the issues that the FSI engine's known for, is a mid-year change. I'm on the fence between buying a used/leftover FSI engine to save the money or going for the newer TSI engine in the hopes of not having to deal with the known problems with the older engine. I drive like 25k/year, so I need something reliable (hence the Civic :D )
Ahhh, OK. The entire MkV model line has been known to be reliable, so you'd probably be OK with the FSI engine

The diesel Jetta/Golf/etc variants are supposed to come back to the States this fall. I'm quite curious to see what the new generation Jetta looks like with the diesel engine.
All I know, is they better have some damn good fuel economy to offset the cost of 5 bucks a gallon for diesel, or else they'll be joining the Touaregs in the "too expensive to own" section way in the back of the dealer's lot.

[macflurry]

exactly[/I] why -- mix of the car's engineering, the way people who drive Saabs drive, and also the places they live, no doubt.

How do Saab owners drive as opposed to other car owners? I'm perplexed by that statement.

[obeygiant]

How do Saab owners drive as opposed to other car owners? I'm perplexed by that statement.

They cry and cry while they drive.

[iJohnHenry]

How do Saab owners drive as opposed to other car owners?

On the look-out for anyone pointing, and laughing??

Let us know when one of us gets the correct answer.

[mkrishnan]

All I know, is they better have some damn good fuel economy to offset the cost of 5 bucks a gallon for diesel, or else they'll be joining the Touaregs in the "too expensive to own" section way in the back of the dealer's lot.

Well, the last generation was approximately twice the fuel efficiency of gasoline, if I'm not mistaken. So if you pay $4/gallon for gas and you get 28 miles per gallon, and you pay $5/gal for diesel and get 55 MPG, I'm not sure how you figure the diesel is more expensive?

How do Saab owners drive as opposed to other car owners? I'm perplexed by that statement.

I don't mean it as any kind of insult. What I mean is that whenever you select some fairly cohesive brand element within the automotive industry, you select to some extent a subset of driving styles. Mustang GT drivers on average drive differently than Ford Taurus drivers, even though the same brand makes both cars. S2000 and Accord drivers drive differently also. With respect to Saab, their cars in general are tilted towards the driver/performance end of the segment, but in the US, both Saab and Volvo have safety reputations and tend to draw safety conscious drivers. When you draw safety conscious drivers to your safe car, you can create an artificial effect -- a self-fulfilling prophecy. There's nothing wrong with that, I'm just fairly sure it plays into the real-world safety statistics of that or any other car.

[Antares]

I was thinking about getting a new Dodge Challenger as my next car. However, it gets poor fuel economy. Though, I was thinking about having one converted into a hybrid and/or a multi-fuel vehicle. Might get a used one 2 years down the road, though, as any modifaction instantly voids the warranty.

I've never liked Toyotas or Hondas. I always thought they were too fugly for my tastes. The new Accord coupe is better looking than Hondas of the past. However, I wouldn't call it "pretty" by any means. The Civic is too bland. I'm more inclined to go after a distinctive car like the Eclipse.... I don't know why fuel efficient cars can't look "cool" like the gas guzzlers....

The Volt has me salivating, though....

[macflurry]

I don't mean it as any kind of insult. What I mean is that whenever you select some fairly cohesive brand element within the automotive industry, you select to some extent a subset of driving styles. Mustang GT drivers on average drive differently than Ford Taurus drivers, even though the same brand makes both cars. S2000 and Accord drivers drive differently also. With respect to Saab, their cars in general are tilted towards the driver/performance end of the segment, but in the US, both Saab and Volvo have safety reputations and tend to draw safety conscious drivers. When you draw safety conscious drivers to your safe car, you can create an artificial effect -- a self-fulfilling prophecy. There's nothing wrong with that, I'm just fairly sure it plays into the real-world safety statistics of that or any other car.

No worries, you definitely didn't insult me, but I just wanted an explanation behind the statement, really out of curiousity. To be honest, I always associated Saab with being nice for a couple years and then a blackhole that focuses its attention towards your wallet after...:D

[ChrisA]

although in some cases people are stupid and just keep the car they have and take the hit on the gas rather than buying an entirely new car

I don't care about the cost of gas. What I care about is the total cost of ownership over a period of say, six years.

What I do is figure the cost of fuel for six years and add that to the cost of the car. Which car to buy then depends on how much you drive. With my short commute I'm best off with a lower priced car.

Should I sell my 16 mpg Ford Rager pickup? No. If I traded it in for a 30 mpg car the car woud not pay for itself even in 6 or 7 years. It is cheaper to drive my 16 mpg truck that was paid for years ago. Fuel even at $5 per galon is still not that expensive.

If I spend $15,000 on a new car it would have to save me that much money in gas over it's life. That would mean it would have to save 3,000 galons.

So what I'll do is wait until I need a new car. My 93 truck is still runing fine after 180,000 miles. I figure it will last until about 250,000. Then I will buy a plug-in hybred.