PDA

View Full Version : Apple's New Thing (iPod)


MacRumors
Oct 23, 2001, 01:05 PM
Brief bullets of what's happening with the announcement of Apple's new digital device gathered from a variety of sources:

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2001/10/20011023140537.shtml

Newton-Man
Oct 23, 2001, 01:12 PM
If you goto MacMinute.com they have running news on whats going on.

Does anybody know if you can see they anywhere else??

Thanks.
Guy Wickenden

elitemacor
Oct 23, 2001, 01:16 PM
iPoop... iCry. I was so hoping for something more.

WeezerX80
Oct 23, 2001, 01:16 PM
Great just what the world needs, another freaking MP3 player. Go Steve! Where's the Newton?!

SweetRevenge
Oct 23, 2001, 01:17 PM
HAH!

All you wusses waiting for a Newton replacement I TOLD YOU SO IT WAS A MEDIA PLAYER CHARGED BY FIREWIRE.

BOOO YAAAAHH!

AHAHAHAHAHAHHAH~!

Diamondbacks kick ASS too!

AhHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!

I TOLD YOU SO! I TOLD YOU SO! I TOLD YOU SO!I TOLD YOU SO! I TOLD YOU SO! I TOLD YOU SO! I TOLD YOU SO! I TOLD YOU SO! I TOLD YOU SO! I TOLD YOU SO! I TOLD YOU SO! I TOLD YOU SO! I TOLD YOU SO!

Pants
Oct 23, 2001, 01:18 PM
Sounds very revolutionary to me. :mad:

hey - heres an idea Apple - rather than enter the world of gimmicks and toys, why dont you spend a little more time sorting out your pathetically expensive and crap server line up? :mad:
or are you really aiming to become a glorified consumer gimmicks firm? :mad:

Newton-Man
Oct 23, 2001, 01:18 PM
SweetRenenge you are an idiot, no a prat, no a word has yet to be invented.

The speech is not yet over. iTunes 2 has just been announced. It looks really cool

Thanks,
Guy Wickenden

WeezerX80
Oct 23, 2001, 01:21 PM
I still can't believe this! All this hype for something so ridiculous! Who cares about an MP3 player? I want something new! I want them to think differently!
Why oh why would they do this?! It's so wrong! It's so stupid!

ooh wow
Oct 23, 2001, 01:26 PM
gee! an mp3 player with a HD! how original! kinda reminds me of a JUKEBOX i once knew..

bgreel
Oct 23, 2001, 01:27 PM
I'm sure you'll see it here once they decide to put it up:
http://www.apple.com/ipod

Joseph
Oct 23, 2001, 01:28 PM
$400 - is that expensive? Looks great!! http://store.apple.com

tatnasty
Oct 23, 2001, 01:28 PM
OH NO! Just checked Apple Store - they want $399.00 for this thing...Ouch!!!

elitemacor
Oct 23, 2001, 01:29 PM
It's now at the online Apple Store!

$400 for an Mp3 Player!

I'd call it the Cube 2.0 as it wont sell, and be killed off in a short time...and it's not really functional.

Uuhh Steve, can I have a PDA now?

[Edited by elitemacor on 10-23-2001 at 02:33 PM]

Joseph
Oct 23, 2001, 01:31 PM
It is also a Firewire drive that can be used for any purpose - not just an mp3 player.

I like it. Seems pricey though.

Traveler
Oct 23, 2001, 01:31 PM
We live in the YEAR 2001... not 6000 years from now when ridiculously awsome technology will exist. No other mp3 player has a harddrive like this... 5gigs... **** yeah. A rio of the same size offers 64megs. Jesum Crow, get over your moping.. .this is revolutionary.... plus it's just the beggining. This device litterally bests anything on the market by about 100x

tatnasty
Oct 23, 2001, 01:32 PM
I pray steve has saved one last new thing to pull out ala steve right at the end...

Toddy
Oct 23, 2001, 01:32 PM
go2mac.com has a picture

sjestus
Oct 23, 2001, 01:32 PM
Come on everyone, y'all are saying it sucks before you have even held it in your hand. I mean 5GB in a little tiny thing like that, it's amazing. I don't see anyone else making something like that. Do you?

bgreel
Oct 23, 2001, 01:36 PM
apple.com/ipod is up now

nobody special
Oct 23, 2001, 01:37 PM
All that hype for an MP3 player? Break-thru digital device? The Reality Distiortion Field™ is starting to warp Steve's mind if he thinks for one second that this thing is gonna take off.

dhdave
Oct 23, 2001, 01:38 PM
No matter what Apple does there are always people who are NEVER happy. Give it a rest. It's a great idea and the first of many. Why don't you give it a chance. It's price point isn't half bad either. At $399 I would much rather have an ipod than say, an xbox. (no, I am not comparing the two, just the $399 discretionary spending price point).

dh

greatm31
Oct 23, 2001, 01:39 PM
The reason why everyone's dissapointed is because we had our hopes up for this incredible device that would do everything you could possibly use the word "digital" in and most of the things you can't. The truth is that is really is revolutionary. 5 gigs? Where do you see 5 gigs in an Mp3 player?
If Apple had gone with something completely and utterly new, it would probably go down the hole that the cube and the newton went down... they were ahead of their time, and suffered because of it. Apple can't have another disaster like the Cube, so they decided to stay just a bit ahead of the game. As long as apple markets it effectively, I think it's gonna do really well.
The product really looks great, give it a chance guys!

elitemacor
Oct 23, 2001, 01:39 PM
Steve Jobs: "Isn't this cool? It's never been this fast or this easy before."

Me: Uhh, no!

SPG
Oct 23, 2001, 01:43 PM
Sure the iPod is cool, and hell yeah I'd love to have one, but only for half the asking price of $399. Here's the questions though...
If this is also a 5gb HD, can it be used as a quicktime player for video in any other way?
Is the software that runs it upgradeable to add features later on?
If the ipod is only the world's most baddass MP3 player then I don't know if I'm really going to stand in line to buy it, I have a cd walkman and a burner already, and besides that now that I don't have a dotcom job anymore I need that $400 to pay car payments and rent.
Steve, bring down the price or add video to it and I'll eat TopRamen for a month to afford one.

dave
Oct 23, 2001, 01:47 PM
I really wanted to like it. Really. But do the math:

20GB hard drive: $199 from APS tech.

MP3 player: $50 from Best Buy.

You save $150 plus get an extra 15 Gig of storage!

jaime
Oct 23, 2001, 01:47 PM
There are already two products similar to this on the market. The Nomad Jukebox and the Archos Jukebox which can come with a 20 gig HD. The iPod is obviously alot cooler and has firewire, but it is far from revolutionary. I for one am disappointed and think that apple is making a mistake by trying to get into this market.

fragiledreams
Oct 23, 2001, 01:48 PM
trully revolutionary MY ASSSS!


http://www.americas.creative.com/products/product.asp?Product=126&MainCategory=2

Creative NOMAD® Jukebox player
Capacity: 20GB hard drive (up to 340 hours at 128kbps MP3 encoding)

GO APPLEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

schmoe
Oct 23, 2001, 01:48 PM
This is not like any other MP3 player on the market, imagine being able to store several days worth of music at once! The iPod will be great for travelers, students, heck anyone who is really into music. I think this will be a

The price isn't that high, I think the Intel Pocket Concert costs the same or more and only has 128MB of ram, not upgradeable. Plus those little storage cards cost a fortune, like $200 for 128 megs, and there are a lot of incompatible types.

Firewire is fast! It must be a pain to transfer files to your player via USB or even a dedicated card reader.

I've seen one of the other HD music players and it probably weights double what the iPod weights, as well as being much thicker and bulkier, like a brick basically.

TheSaint
Oct 23, 2001, 01:49 PM
$399!

I think it's just that bit too pricey. (Cube anyone...).

$299. Then Apple would be in business...

tablebeast
Oct 23, 2001, 01:51 PM
OK, I'll admit this thing is a very cool MP3 player, but it seems like it could be so much more. Why doesn't it have the ability to record audio (compressed as an MP3 or uncompressed as well) directly to it? The Archos and Jukebox HD Mp3 players can do this, why not this one? Also, it looks like this thing may be hackable if you look at what it is made of. With 20 minute skip protection thats enough RAM to work with and a 5 gig hard drive, firewire connectivity... Why isn't it a PDA as well. It sure looks and acts like one. Maybe it could be. Anyone know what is going to be lurking under the hood?

Normal Guy
Oct 23, 2001, 01:53 PM
I agree somewhat with most of your unhappiness over iPod. It only looks like being worth $200 to myself. Something I don't think most of you are looking at. This is Apple's "Newest" attempt at entering the consumer electronics market. PDAs are also considered consumer electronics. This player is about the size of a size of a deck of cards and still boast 5Gb and new faster charging longer holding lithum-ion battery. Wouldn't these elements work well in a PDA? Hmmm. It's easy to see where Apple is headed.

JereIC
Oct 23, 2001, 01:55 PM
This thing's too cool. It makes my Rio 500 (recently upgraded to hold 128 MB of songs) look pathetic. It's beautiful. It looks too easy to use. It has all sorts of cool features that I will never live without again. This is a home run, and y'all who keep complaining its not a $200 Newton device, buy a Visor. They can play MP3s, by the way, but they're still stuck in the 21st century compared to the iPod.

Now where did I put that credit card...

Bassman
Oct 23, 2001, 01:55 PM
I'm wondering if those earbud headphones will make your audio sound "tinny", as I'm assuming there's no on-board EQ or bass enhancement.

idoru1135
Oct 23, 2001, 01:56 PM
Not exactly "revolutionary". With the economy in its current state, You'll be able to pick up MP3 players for peanuts soon. The Archos Jukebox does the same thing and it's not blowing off the shelves either. $399 is just too much for an MP3 jukebox. Sorry Steve, this isn't it...

Nicobosss
Oct 23, 2001, 01:58 PM
are they going to make it accessible to PC along with Itunes 2 ?
This would be a sweet revenge from apple:
PC people bying apple products ......

Then it would be a Breakthrough in the digital era.....

I hope so ....

fragiledreams
Oct 23, 2001, 02:00 PM
JereIC thank god (for apple) there are stupid like you that would buy even a **** whith the Apple logo on it.

blakespot
Oct 23, 2001, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by fragiledreams
trully revolutionary MY ASSSS!


http://www.americas.creative.com/products/product.asp?Product=126&MainCategory=2

Creative NOMAD® Jukebox player
Capacity: 20GB hard drive (up to 340 hours at 128kbps MP3 encoding)

GO APPLEEEEEEEE!!!!!!


That's so much larger than the iPod (as are portable CD-based MP3 players) that it's in a whole other class of functionality. The iPod will fit into a very small pocket. That large thing will not.

Tag-based iTunes 2 integration is a plus as well.


bp

mikedman
Oct 23, 2001, 02:04 PM
bummer

http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/electronics/5784.shtml

20 gig drive and its only $349

sorry apple, yer cool styling and faster transfer rate only count for so much

btw... for $100 bucks more you can buy an imac. Better bring that price down or you wont sell any of these babies

matthodgson
Oct 23, 2001, 02:09 PM
this really isn't that revolutionary of a product. I have a Nomad Jukebox with a 6gig hardrive and it only cost me $250. It works great and syncs fine with the computer and the transfer is relativley fast. I don't know what the big deal is. So...it works well with apple's software....big deal, anyone can do that. There is nothing there of interest. It's just a little but smaller, has a little better battery, and is $150 dollars more. Whatever.......this thing would be cool.....for $200.
Regards,
Matt Hodgson

SPG
Oct 23, 2001, 02:11 PM
Uhh, has anyone mentioned anything about sound quality? Most MP3 players sound well, pretty much like crap. MP3's off my G4 only sound okay because I run them through a ridiculously bass heavy subwoofer.
Now that we're dealing with an audio only component sound quality is the most important thing.

Beholder of Truth
Oct 23, 2001, 02:11 PM
[B]You are all a bunch of imbecile crybabies. I bet you haven't even gone over the specs and all you can do is whine and cry because you didn't get a Newton. Get a life! I bet all you do is troll Mac bbs' critizicing Apple and how they can NEVER meet your stupid way out of this world expectations.

THIS THING IS AMAZING!!!

It's not jus ANOTHER mp3 player. It's a BREAKTROUGH mp3 player!

Let's go over this:

- 5 GB ULTRA-SLIM hard drive, all in a tiny and beautiful enclosure the size of a deck of cards. Does ANY mp3 player out there have anything like it? Didn't think so. Only HUGE CRAP ASS ONES like the Nomad Jukebox. This fits in your palm or in your pocket!

- FIREWIRE! Steve transmitted 1Gb of data onto the device in about 2 minutes. 1Gb!!! Does ANY mp3 player out there do this? Didn't think so. You have to wait 5 hours for your Nomad Jukebox to load up.

- 20 minute anti-skip protection. 20 minutes! Does ANY mp3 player out there have this? Didn't think so.

- Powered OFF THE FIREWIRE BUS. Hook it up to your firewire port and it not only downloads songs. IT CHARGES! Does ANY mp3 player out there have this? Didn't think so.

- DOUBLES AS A STORAGE DEVICE! You can not only carry your music on it, BUT YOUR DATA!!! Does ANY mp3 player out there do this? Didn't think so.

- 10 Hour battery! Recharges in just 1 hour!!! Does any mp3 player out there have such an advanced battery made out of lithium polymer? Didn't think so.

- Auto-sync! Hook up the player, and it downloads your mp3 collection. You don't even have to push or click anything! Does ANY mp3 player out there have this? Didn't think so.

- Apple's beautiful and intuitive interface! The interface in this thing reminds me of the first macs. This is the macintosh revolution of mp3 players! It is so amazing. You can browse your songs by artist, album, playlist, genre, anything! All with a few buttons and an awesome scrollwheel. Wait 'till you use one and you will see how amazing it is. Does ANY mp3 player out there provide this easy of use and make mp3 listening so practical? NO!

Apple hit a HOME RUN with this thing, and just as always proved that there's no one that can make products like them. Way to go Apple!

schmoe
Oct 23, 2001, 02:15 PM
Lets see now:

Firewire 400MB/s, iPod
USB 1.2MB/s, Archos

10 hour battery, iPod
8 hour battery, Archos

4.02" x 2.43" x 0.78", iPod
4.5" x 3.2" x 1.3", Archos

6.5oz, iPod
12oz, Archos

MP3 to 360 Kbps, MP3 VBR, WAV, AIFF, iPod
MP3, Archos

greatm31
Oct 23, 2001, 02:16 PM
hey, guys, remember how we would argue for hours about Apple introducing the iMac 2, and it didn't happen, Apple only mildly refreshed the line? Why did all speculation stop then? Yeah, so apple introduced an Mp3 player. I think it's pretty cool, and will sell well if there's a kick-ass marketing campaign. But shouldn't we be talking about the future? I still think apple will introduce a new iMac, and perhaps they'll do it just in time for Christmas. What do you guys think?

Purdue CS
Oct 23, 2001, 02:17 PM
with all the hype surrounding it, the iPod still came out looking quite good. i wont lie - the 399 price is a lot for some people. but obviously not everyone. i really think if it was 299 it would be more aggresive...

im worried about this - say i get the iPod, isnt my battery life on my Ti550 short enough as it is - superdrain trying to charge my iPod on the road... but then again - im smarter than that....


--
ja

myself,
i was looking for a PDA, one for the rest of us, personally the palms and PocketPCS are getting irrititing... im putting all my money on that being the next digital device. and for sure...

monolith
Oct 23, 2001, 02:17 PM
I guess the negative reactions indicate that people expect miracles from Apple.

I don't think it would have been possible for Apple to hype this product any less... they didn't do anything but invite the press to the announcement (of course they used the word "revolutionary", but that's standard marketing jargon). However, everyone feels cheated because the rumor mill blew the thing out of proportion.

I think it looks like a great toy. The price is steep for 5 GB, but everything else about it is great. I own a 6 GB jukebox that I paid $360 for, but I'm tempted to switch just for the Firewire (USB is slowwww... also, the Jukebox drains batteries like mad and has somewhat flakey firmware).

Meetoo
Oct 23, 2001, 02:20 PM
Any way you spin this it is:
1. Not revolutionary. Big capacity mp3 players already exist. With Creative Labs' entrance into the firewire arena, future nomads will have similar specs and better prices.
2. A bad fit. This product is outside Apple's core competancy - computing devices. When many are calling for a pda, they release an MP3 player.
3. Without a future. This Christmas you will see mp3 players be commoditized. Meaning that the players from Korea will be way less expensive tha iPod. The real money is in DRM and distribution (ala Real Musicnet). If Apple were smart they would be focusing on high gross revenue from services rather than a playback device.

Fat Tony
Oct 23, 2001, 02:20 PM
This is a nice product. A firewire MP3 player/HD with 5 GB capacity in such a small package. It is a little overpriced for such a device, though.

However, it is by no means revolutionary or groundbreaking. It is an MP3 player. BFD. It is just a step in the evolution of an MP3 player. A little smaller, a little lighter, a little better battery.

With OS X, FireWire, AirPort, the G4 and AltiVec, iDVD, iMovie, iTunes and iTools, Apple has an enormous amount of technology that can be leveraged to create something new and groundbreaking. Their invitation promised a groundbreaking digital device and they did not deliver. I wonder how many reportes from outside the Mac press will show up next time they release a "groundbreacking digital device?"

Think Different is dead.

Xistor
Oct 23, 2001, 02:23 PM
Quit yer whinin! This list looks like Cry babies incorporated! Apple said they aren't in the market to make PDAs, so quit anticipating every new product is a rebirth of the very dead Newton.

iPod is a great idea. It has huge capacity for MP3s (5GB is much more than any other similarly sized mp3 toy), syncs with iTunes, and a nicely sized backlit LCD screen with good battery life (10hours). Recharges by FireWIre is also a neat thing. The only thing that isn't neat about it is the price, but those in the market for the smallest large-capacity music player will pay for it I'm sure. Also doubles as a way to back-up files from your Mac or to transport large files from one Mac to another without having to waste time burning a CD or further money by buying a dedicated Firewire hard drive.

It's slick and expensive.. like any good toy.. now, can we get back to more pressing matters like refining the iMac??

ajs
Oct 23, 2001, 02:35 PM
Gee, where can I get a 5 gig MP3 player?

How about 20 gigs. AND it works with Macs.

http://www.nomadworld.com/products/jukebox_20gb/

oldschoolmacfan
Oct 23, 2001, 02:35 PM
OK. For $300 I can get an in-dash MP3 player for my car, which is where I spend most of my travel time. For walking, etc., a Rio is fine. At home, it's right off the MAc or my stereo. Where oh where does a $400 (!!!!!) player fit into the scheme of things? Seems like Steve just wanted the coolest toy, regardless of its practicality.
Besides, has anyone brought up the recent statements by the RIAA about competely blocking ripping of new CDs?
Here's to another bullet in the foot...

mikedman
Oct 23, 2001, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by Beholder of Truth
[B]You are all a bunch of imbecile crybabies. I bet you haven't even gone over the specs and all you can do is whine and cry because you didn't get a Newton. Get a life! I bet all you do is troll Mac bbs' critizicing Apple and how they can NEVER meet your stupid way out of this world expectations.

THIS THING IS AMAZING!!!

It's not jus ANOTHER mp3 player. It's a BREAKTROUGH mp3 player!

Let's go over this:

- 5 GB ULTRA-SLIM hard drive, all in a tiny and beautiful enclosure the size of a deck of cards. Does ANY mp3 player out there have anything like it?
---The one on thinkgeek fits in your hand

- DOUBLES AS A STORAGE DEVICE! You can not only carry your music on it, BUT YOUR DATA!!! Does ANY mp3 player out there do this? Didn't think so.
----Again it works as a USB drive

Apple hit a HOME RUN with this thing, and just as always proved that there's no one that can make products like them. Way to go Apple!

----I think apple hit more of a double on this one. Before you pop that vein in your forehead remember this is a discussion forum... and we are discussing the new device. In my opinion this device is not ground breaking, its apples take on an mp3 jukebox.

I like it and if it were $200-$299 I'd buy one. But at $400 you are getting into the price range of a new computer.

My recently laid-off ass can't justify paying that much money for something that is slightly cooler that the competition but with a faster transfer and better design. I have a feeling the consumers being targeted with this device won't either.

JPL
Oct 23, 2001, 02:45 PM
http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/electronics/mp3.shtml

TheSaint
Oct 23, 2001, 02:55 PM
Mmmm. APPL is already down $1.00...

Looks like the markets aren't looking too favorably on Apple's new forays into the digital device market.
Of course the iPod is cool, neat, whatever. You wouldn't expect anything less from Apple. But I agree with most on this forum. $400 is simply too much in the present economic climate. One other thing. I'd like to know what their margins for the iPod are...

mymemory
Oct 23, 2001, 02:59 PM
I said the Cube was overpriced and should cost $1200, this piece of Sh... should cost no more than $90.

Apple is selling a bunch of overpriced things like the TiBook that won't be resellable for more than $1300 in less than 6 month because it is not upgredable.

This iPod is for spoil rich kids with insane parents or an Apple fan as fannatic as a Taliban. It has good features but forget about getting it for $399!!!! Never, who gets that thing is a very stupid person.

Steve Jobs is under terrible consuling or is under too much pot. This propusal is not realistic at all. If Apple does something like this again is going down.

This unit may work for an audio engeneer to record some conference or rock band on the field in place of buying a expensive DAT machine, that is the only real good market this machinne is gonna have.

Xapplimatic
Oct 23, 2001, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by ajs
Gee, where can I get a 5 gig MP3 player?

How about 20 gigs. AND it works with Macs.
http://www.nomadworld.com/products/jukebox_20gb/

Ya, the Jukebox holds 4x more at the same price, but it's also so big it can't fit in a pocket (not practical for travel) and the method of interface (USB) is so slow that it would take only 46.6 hours to fill it.. Jukebox is a joke box.. iPod is expensive but WAAY more practical.

The best news here is:

iTunes2 is still free and it's on top of all the competition.. Now it burns MP3 format CDs (so you don't have to have an MP3 player to cart a lot of music around), finally supports an EQ (10 band-22 preset) with DSP ("sound enhancer") , can cross-fade between tracks, and burns CDs up to twice as fast as before.. that's more of an improvement to the Apple line-up to me. It takes killer software to sell good hardware. (About the only thing that iTunes2 doesn't have is skins.. but big deal.. it's very very functional!)

Zaren
Oct 23, 2001, 03:03 PM
I'll have to agree that "groundbreaking" wasn't the right word to use for this doodad.

HOWEVER...

It's got a pretty slick list of features when compared to other "large capacity" mp3 players out on the market:

o Faster transfer rates
o Auto-syncing
o Nice tiny size
o Battery charging over the file transfer interface

As well as when compared to the flash ram / memory stick players:

o Much larger capacity
o Better cost / capacity ratio
o All the reasons listed above :)

This thing could easily replace the crappy Rio 600 I currently own, were it not for the cost. I had been working on a way to save up cash for a Nomad Jukebox or something similar, as well as a carrying bag for it. Looks like I won't need the bag now...

Guest
Oct 23, 2001, 03:11 PM
I have no use for an Mp3 player.

My house has a CD player.
My car has a CD player.
My Mac has a CD player

I don't use headphones.

The iPod requires me to change my lifestyle to meet it's needs...

I need round holes, not square holes.

For $99 I might buy the toy, for $399? Why?

Doesn't a Mac with a CDR undermine the need for most of this? All that's left is the number of songs you can play and the ability to listen to all of them with headphones anywhere. Do I really need ALL my songs ALL the time?

uhm, no.

Won't last. Another Cube.

pdcorlis
Oct 23, 2001, 03:11 PM
iPod... looks very cool, lots of storage, and some interesting new battery technology... now that could set the stage for other more interesting devices, but what a Huge pricetag! Lucky for me, I only own an iBook with USB. I don't even have to think about it - come to think of it neither do LOTS of other Mac owners, and yer average wintel folks. Yep a huge number of computer owners and music lovers won't have to lose any sleep tonight.

The only thing breakthrough may be the narrowness of this nich market.

sonnys
Oct 23, 2001, 03:12 PM
Am I the only one who sees a fatal flaw with this "consumer" device... IT'S MAC-ONLY! For Apple to move a ton of these things off the shelf, it would have to also work well with PCs. Why limit yourself to selling a dedicated MP3 device to 5% of the PC market, when you could just as easily make it work with PCs and open yourself up to 100% of the PC market?

Especially at $399... Apple is selling into its existing user base without expanding to new markets, and by marketing an overpriced Mac-only MP3 player to the Mac audience, it will be inadvertently biting into future iBook and iMac upgrades because people don't have an unlimited amount of cash to spend on computers -- at some point, especially in this uncertain economy, people are going to make a choice and draw the line somewhere.

Yes, it's evolutionary as far as MP3 players go, but not revolutionary. You can't be revolutionary unless you can't sell it to everyone (i.e. PC and Mac users alike) and make the brand pervasive.

If it really wanted to hit a home-run, Apple would have kept the 5GB HD and MP3 functionality while adding a color LCD screen and Newton/Palm front-end functionality. Check out this Sony Palm/MP3 player for $499:

http://www.sonystyle.com/vaio/clie/peg_n760c_index.shtml

Apple could have bested them by adding a FireWire port and a 5GB hard drive, iTunes integration, Entourage/OSX synching, etc., and keeping the $399 price point. Now *that* would have been truly revolutionary!

In its current incarnation, the iPod will fail because it's being sold into a relatively small market, and due to its limited functionality and high price. It's another Cube, and I can't understand why it's so plainly obvious to us but not to Apple.

bgreel
Oct 23, 2001, 03:14 PM
now if we just had an unveiling like that once per week ...

It's really not such of a big deal of a product but yes, I think apple does things better (though they do cost more), and they could expand their product line, and if they had a bunch of little gadgets like this maybe people wouldn't get so hyped.

I'm still holding out for a nice little apple pda (with a 5gb harddrive, that'd be nice)

blackpeter
Oct 23, 2001, 03:17 PM
5 gigs of storage - an mp3 player - firewire connectivity - Apple simplicity. But...

OPTICAL OUT? I mean, this is a digital device...

pupdog
Oct 23, 2001, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by mymemory
I said the Cube was overpriced and should cost $1200, this piece of Sh... should cost no more than $90.

Apple is selling a bunch of overpriced things like the TiBook that won't be resellable for more than $1300 in less than 6 month because it is not upgredable.

This iPod is for spoil rich kids with insane parents or an Apple fan as fannatic as a Taliban. It has good features but forget about getting it for $399!!!! Never, who gets that thing is a very stupid person.

Steve Jobs is under terrible consuling or is under too much pot. This propusal is not realistic at all. If Apple does something like this again is going down.

This unit may work for an audio engeneer to record some conference or rock band on the field in place of buying a expensive DAT machine, that is the only real good market this machinne is gonna have.

Um, what's a propusal? Am what does Steve's being crushed under cookware have to do with the price of tea in China, or the iPod for that matter? Does anyone really think this will stay at $400 for long? The ink on the press-release isn't even dry yet- why don't you folks relax, take a little breather, maybe leaf through a dictionary or Strunk and White's 'Elements of Style'... Folks predicted Volkswagen was crazy for bringing back the Beetle at $20000 too, and we see how poorly it caught on. Yes you can get a slightly less expensive machine to do slightly less, but when was the last time you saw a slick TV ad for Archos, or heard anyone comment on how easy it is to use their Rio? There's a lot to be said for finese in the personal electronics business, otherwise we would all be listening to those great Roadmaster car stereo's from Wal-Mart and using those swank Rolodex e-Organizers...

Guest
Oct 23, 2001, 03:18 PM
How do I know you're a fat slob? Because you think music only goes with you in your car or at home. Ever thought abour running outside or working out at the gym?

Currently, I have a iPaq PA-1. It's small and nifty but the biggest problem is that it only holds 64Megs of songs and it takes forever to download those songs.

The iPod is the perfect solution because I can load 5 Gigs onto it and it wont take 4 hours to do it. The battery life is great as well.

Cant wait to get one. And while it's been pointed out that the flaw is that it doesnt work with PCs... well..... look at it as an opportunity. Now I have to get the Ti powerbook i've been lusting after.





Originally posted by Guest
I have no use for an Mp3 player.

My house has a CD player.
My car has a CD player.
My Mac has a CD player

I don't use headphones.

The iPod requires me to change my lifestyle to meet it's needs...

I need round holes, not square holes.

For $99 I might buy the toy, for $399? Why?

Doesn't a Mac with a CDR undermine the need for most of this? All that's left is the number of songs you can play and the ability to listen to all of them with headphones anywhere. Do I really need ALL my songs ALL the time?

uhm, no.

Won't last. Another Cube.

Nicobosss
Oct 23, 2001, 03:19 PM
I AM SORRY TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT.

But maybe someone can help me -

I am tempted by an iBook - and even more by its capability to be linked to a TV for DVD movies or a bigger screen ....

Has anyone tested this any can tell me about the quality ?
Is it worth it or should I forget about this option ?????

If nobody can answer maybe there is a forum you know I can go to to have some kind of answer ...

Thanx

MacUser1
Oct 23, 2001, 03:29 PM
yes, you can connect an ibook to a big screen tv to watch dvd movies; however, you will need a AV cable ($15 from apple) to do it.
I do this all the time at friend's and family's houses, it's great

bgreel
Oct 23, 2001, 03:29 PM
ipod being windows compatible by launch. It just doesn't economically make sense to me otherwise that apple would launch into a limited market...

this raises the possibility of itunes becoming windows compatible as well. Following in Quicktime's footsteps. Why not? er... besides the rather formidable competition on that side of the fence. And that it doesn't help sell macs. Ok, I don't understand.

Traveler
Oct 23, 2001, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by fragiledreams
trully revolutionary MY ASSSS!


http://www.americas.creative.com/products/product.asp?Product=126&MainCategory=2

Creative NOMAD® Jukebox player
Capacity: 20GB hard drive (up to 340 hours at 128kbps MP3 encoding)

GO APPLEEEEEEEE!!!!!!



Hey Fragile,
I think you've got some good points but you're also a moron if you think that the Jukebox is a better deal. Let's compare:

Ipod Nomad
Price $399 $399

Size(WxHxD): 4" x 2.4" x .75" 5" x 5" x 1.5"
Winner: Ipod at half the size

Weight: 6.5 oz 14 oz (w/o batt.)
Winner: Ipod at less than half the weight

Battery Life: 10hrs 4hrs
Winner: Ipod with 2.5x playing time

Capacity: 5GB 20GB
Winner: Ok at half the size the ipod should have 10gigs

Memory: 32mb cache 8mb DRAM
Winner: Ipod

Interface: Firewire USB
Winner: duh... Ipod

Sure as hell looks to me like Ipod kicks ass against the competition. Moreover if you think the Nomad is reasonably priced then the Ipod is a bargain in comparison. Granted it should have a bigger HD but the given all the other advantages I think it's a reasonable trade off.

MacUser1
Oct 23, 2001, 03:34 PM
Like someone said before...

I agree, the iPod is too expensive for most people to purchase it. However, it does look like Apple is heading in the right direction:
5 GB Mini-Hard Drive
FireWire in a small device
etc.
Hopefully we will see an Apple PDA in the near future.

moby 1
Oct 23, 2001, 03:38 PM
I would actually buy one of these - if they were $199...maybe even at $299 'cause I need a firewire drive that looks cool - but $399! (gulp).

I 'm definitely gonna get one...in a few months...off eBay...

ff_will
Oct 23, 2001, 03:39 PM
Apple introduced the "Digital Hub" strategy to show the critics that there are not many things you cannot do on a Mac... and there are some that you can ONLY do on a Mac. This strategy helped boost Apple hardware sales quite a bit.

But what's going on now? Of all the things you still cannot do on a Mac, using MP3 players is definitely not one! For crying out loud: Apple has been selling Rios and other devices in the AppleStore for quite a while now. So this new "groundbreaking" device is definitely not going to sell on single Mac.

Instead how about starting a collection of things you still cannot do on your Mac - or you wish you could do more easily. How about:
- Better support for mobile phones? Maybe a phone with AirPort technology instead of Bluetooth? Or one which also syncs with your Mac instead of Windows only.
- A better PDA (Palm is a joke compared to the famos N-word)
- Better server hardware! Compare those Mac Servers to a Cobald Linux server and you'll start to cry...
- Better server software! MacOS X is great. Now please improve the Server Admin software. At the moment it's almost useless!
- And so on...

You see: There are plenty of things that would help push Apple hardware sales. A better and much pricier MP3 player is definitely not one of them!

troy wilson
Oct 23, 2001, 03:42 PM
Oh...my...god. I can only shake my head and smile in amazement at you people. What a bunch of doom and gloom cynic crybaby beeotches. Am i in a mac forum? I had to check about a hundred times. The ipod is sick. Do you all think it is so easy to come up with a product that simply is better than the rest? All you friggin brats want some fire breathing super virtual reality teleportation PDA that you seen captain kirk had on episode 145? sheesh...this mp3 player is a hundred times better than every mp3 player out there. period. the price is a bit high just because its a new product. they need the cash to keep you crybaby closet MS lovers happy with new products (they are in the business to make money ya know?) You all blame apple for the hype? its your own damn fault you think they are coming out with a time travel device or some ****. i dont know why i bother reading this crap sometimes. i wish we could filter out all the fools that do nothing but moan and groan about everything in front of their faces. everything...not just apple computers new products. your just bitches.

Jonas
Oct 23, 2001, 03:48 PM
Seems to me most of the views expressed here are very polarized. Black/white, yes/no, all good/all bad etc. Wonder if that's nationality- or age-based. Anyway.

I've been interested in replacing my discman for quite some time; it skips too much and doesn't easily fit in my pockets. Here's why I haven't replaced it with the following alternatives:

1) MD player. They say it doesn't skip, but ... Lots of little discs to keep track of. Only ATRAC (compression).

2) Rio-type MP3 player. Because I want to be able to take a minimum of, say, ten albums/hours of music with me. I won't use it only while biking to work, but also for weekends away and even holidays. Like I use my discman. Well, ten gigabyte in 128 megabyte cards ...

3) Harddrive-based MP3 players. Nomed Jukebox, the Archos machine. This is the closest I've come to something satisfactory, but they seem too big and heavy. Maybe the Archos, I haven't held it. Too expensive.

1, 2 and 3) Going away to the beach for the weekend in a few hours, but I've only got Sepultura, Entombed and Nine inch nails on my ten gigabytes of storage. Tell me, how do I get ten gigabytes of reggae (beach music) on there in a reasonable time over USB?

iPod: From my point of view, based on my needs, it's got everything except a decent price. It's small enough to fit in my shirt pocket, it stores enough music and it's got fast transfer. Present support for several compression formats and future support for new ones via firmware upgrades seems like a big plus.

Like someone said: not revolutionary, but evolutionary. Recording would've been sweet, but hey, this is iPod 1.0, yes?

So, basically, I'll get a used one in a year or so.

Now, Steve, bring on the iNewt.

Purdue CS
Oct 23, 2001, 03:53 PM
no doubt about it - the ipod it great. its the best MP3 player out there. asidie from price, its still a little beast. nothing can hold a candle in the wind (that is until dell comes up with the iPoo to compete then ends up canning the product). but apples not done in my eyes. and i know they feel the same way.

- reintro of a PDA - one that its mainly around the mac. highly functional and also uses this lipolymer battery. that would really help out.

- combo drives all around and god please help out the little ailing iMacs...

- something telephony related...

apples purchase of raycer graphics still hasnt panned out anything... and wahts this Gigawire ? still no results...

just me thinking thats all

---
jai

Traveler
Oct 23, 2001, 03:57 PM
What better way to prepare for the launch of a new and truly outstanding pda... the kind we all lust for... than by releasing a demi version to public for a test run. We all play around with the ipod for a bit, scream bloody murder about what we really wanted, and apple quietly takes notes. After a few months of use apple gets a feel for the pulse of the consuming public, their slick scroll wheel gets put to the physical test along with the general construction of the device as a whole and with some quality feedback under their belt, apple engineers and designers can finalize a superior product. I'm holding off for now but I expect this to be the start of something very good

Guest
Oct 23, 2001, 04:06 PM
Gee , you've got music everywhere you go...oooohhh boy!

When I walk I don't need music, when I train in Ninjutsu I don't need music and when I jog I don't need music.

Must be rap music to give you that attitude...

Take the ear-phones off the ear wig needs out dude.


_________________________________________
you, sir, are a fat slob

How do I know you're a fat slob? Because you think music only goes with you in your car or at home. Ever thought abour running outside or working out at the gym?

Currently, I have a iPaq PA-1. It's small and nifty but the biggest problem is that it only holds 64Megs of songs and it takes forever to download those songs.

The iPod is the perfect solution because I can load 5 Gigs onto it and it wont take 4 hours to do it. The battery life is great as well.

Cant wait to get one. And while it's been pointed out that the flaw is that it doesnt work with PCs... well..... look at it as an opportunity. Now I have to get the Ti powerbook i've been lusting after.

Beholder of Truth
Oct 23, 2001, 04:10 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mikedman

---The one on thinkgeek fits in your hand

But it doesn't store 5Gb of music does it? Just like I said. What's your point then?

----Again it works as a USB drive

Ummm... no. It works as a FIREWIRE drive. And it's an mp3 player, not an external HD. THAT'S what is so awesome. And no other mp3 player does this. What's your point then?

----I think apple hit more of a double on this one. Before you pop that vein in your forehead remember this is a discussion forum... and we are discussing the new device. In my opinion this device is not ground breaking, its apples take on an mp3 jukebox.

Oh I thought we were discussing the wat against the Taliban... wtf

In your opinion it's not groundbreaking. But fact is it is, since it brings revolutionary technologies and innovations into the realm of mp3 players.

I like it and if it were $200-$299 I'd buy one. But at $400 you are getting into the price range of a new computer.

That's true. But as every product, it will go down later. The Nomad Jukebox cost $500 when it was introduced and now it's like $250.

My recently laid-off ass can't justify paying that much money for something that is slightly cooler that the competition but with a faster transfer and better design.

-Slightly cooler?- Give me a break. If you can't see the amount of innovation and potential in this thing in the area of portable digital music devices it's no wonder you are laid-off.

zieroh
Oct 23, 2001, 04:11 PM
Why on earth would Apple get back into the PDA market when the existing PDA companies are losing money hand over fist?

Why jump into a commodity market with a superior product, when all you malcontents will just criticize Apple for being too expensive?

Obviously, this crowd will only be happy when Apple is giving away kick-ass PDAs for with MP3 record/playback and a built-in world phone for free.

Get a clue. Get a life.

gandalf55
Oct 23, 2001, 04:15 PM
this forum thread is great!

where else can i read stuff akin to:

"When I train in Ninjitsu, I don't need to listen to music!"... haha... okay Johnny Toughnuts :)

it's something like what Tony Soprano might say here...

"I don't need la-la music when I'm about to whack some poor *****... I just do it!"

hehehehe... man... even when these forums turn sour, something always lightens up my day :)

$299 and I'm sold. Not a penny more. But I'm not pissed at Apple.

Beholder of Truth
Oct 23, 2001, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by Meetoo
Any way you spin this it is:
1. Not revolutionary. Big capacity mp3 players already exist. With Creative Labs' entrance into the firewire arena, future nomads will have similar specs and better prices.
2. A bad fit. This product is outside Apple's core competancy - computing devices. When many are calling for a pda, they release an MP3 player.
3. Without a future. This Christmas you will see mp3 players be commoditized. Meaning that the players from Korea will be way less expensive tha iPod. The real money is in DRM and distribution (ala Real Musicnet). If Apple were smart they would be focusing on high gross revenue from services rather than a playback device.

You are so blind. It's so sad. Large capacity mp3 players already exist. That's like saying computers already existed when the iMac came out. Sure you can get a Nomad Jukebox, and take 46 hours to transfer your music to it ROTFL... not to mention it's twice as big and heavy. This thing fits in my pocket. Just like a Cannon Digital Elph camera. That's why those babies sell so well.

A bad fit? This is not a computing device? Let's see... it has RAM... it has a HD... an OS... hmmm... who's on drugs here? Apple is not in the market of making boxes to use Word on. It's in the market of improving people's digital lifestyles. A PDA are you nuts?! I won't even go there as your suggesting it shows how ignorant you are about the PDA market and what going into it would involve. Besides, when many are calling for a PDA, should that mean they can't release ANYTHING but a PDA just because people want one? That is so stupid. Everyone praises the Newton but the fact is it didn't sell that well. Why would Apple go into that arena again and risk it. Can't you guys learn a lesson?

Mp3 commoditized? No future? Excuse me, but if there's one thing even Apple's cricits agree on, is that if you want an mp3 player, now there's only one way to go. Boy I sure would love a Korean mp3 player with it's clumsy user interface and it's amazing ability to store 24 songs, which take 5 minutes to get on the damn thing. Woohoo! Open your eyes. What you are seeing is the future of portable musical devices.

Beholder of Truth
Oct 23, 2001, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by ajs
Gee, where can I get a 5 gig MP3 player?

How about 20 gigs. AND it works with Macs.

http://www.nomadworld.com/products/jukebox_20gb/

AND it's TWICE as big, TWICE as heavy, you CAN'T put it in your pocket, you CAN'T use it as a HD, transfering songs to it takes 40 hours instead of a few minutes, its user interface is CRAP, its battery lasts half as much... etc. etc. etc.

Nice try but no go.

Beholder of Truth
Oct 23, 2001, 04:27 PM


Smelt
Oct 23, 2001, 04:28 PM
Lots of hype. Now I gripe.

400 bucks! Is Steve nuts?

Digital hub??? What a flub!

Stupid name. Who to blame?

Come on folks-no more jokes...

Beholder of Truth
Oct 23, 2001, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by mymemory

Apple is selling a bunch of overpriced things like the TiBook that won't be resellable for more than $1300 in less than 6 month because it is not upgredable.


The TiBook is not upgradeable? Weird... I just added 1Gb of RAM and a 40Gb HD to mine... I wonder what that is... I guess that's just "modifying it" and not "upgrading it" in your terms. What an idiot. Overpriced? Have you seen how much PC laptops with similar features as the TiBook or iBook cost? Are you under the influence of halucinogens?

Yeah this thing should cost no more than $90... and a dual G4 should cost no more than $150... if this was a perfect world... wake up dude. You get what you pay for.

Beholder of Truth
Oct 23, 2001, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by JPL

naaah, this isn't a crowded market

http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/electronics/mp3.shtml

Since when does that have anything to do. The car market is crowded. The computer market is crowded. The watch market is crowded... big deal

The only way to go for an mp3 player now is Apple's product. It just set the standards that everyone will try to follow/immitate/copy. And it set the standards for what people will now expect for an mp3 player, which at this point only Apple delivers.

DaveGee
Oct 23, 2001, 04:38 PM
I agree with many who state that the iPod is pretty impressive.... The size, features and price are right on the mark. In fact no other MP3 player is in the same league (spec for spec). That being said... Portable MP3 players are for 'kids' (a general term I'll use to group those 'under 30' folks). Once you get past a specific age you find yourself on the AM stations more than the FM ones. (sad but often true)... Another 'general rule' is that those 'under 30' folks don't have near as much extra cash floating around as those who are over 30.

Problem... those who can most afford to throw $400 at a digital toy can't see the value any longer (unless it was also say a voice recorder and or an AM/FM radio too) =) and those who can see the value don't have that kinda cash just sitting around...

Maybe if they started out two units, one with a 1GIG player for say $199 (or so) and then a 5 GIG for $399 they would have pleased more people.

Just my .02 cents...

D

evanmarx
Oct 23, 2001, 04:39 PM
well .. i was a bit disappointed .. yeah

because i already have bought a nice mp3 player some weeks ago ... and i don't really nee dmore than 1 hour of music at the time ...

but! ...

maybe that thing is not revolutionary ... but it shows best at what apple excels over and over ...
.... DESIGN ....
this thing is so damn beautiful, that i'm already thinking about wanting one (not buying, wanting one!) ... this is almost a sexual thing .. and i'm sure that the marketing campaign will be great to watch on TV ...

same was with the TiBook ... i know so many windoze users that bought the TiBook just for the looks of it ... like moths blinded by light .. zzztap

BUT!!

what intrigues me more .... and no one talks about it in this thread, is ... the software in the iPod!

is it based on MacOSX? or any layer of it! looks cool, no? imagine what other devices could be run by such a system software? just give apple some months and i think we'll some more products of this kind ...

Beholder of Truth
Oct 23, 2001, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by Guest
I have no use for an Mp3 player.

My house has a CD player.
My car has a CD player.
My Mac has a CD player

I don't use headphones.

The iPod requires me to change my lifestyle to meet it's needs...

I need round holes, not square holes.

For $99 I might buy the toy, for $399? Why?

Doesn't a Mac with a CDR undermine the need for most of this? All that's left is the number of songs you can play and the ability to listen to all of them with headphones anywhere. Do I really need ALL my songs ALL the time?

uhm, no.

Won't last. Another Cube.

Woohoo! 13 tracks on a CD! That's all I need! Why $399? Because that's what it costs to have such a cool toy, and it's the INTRODUCTORY price. Just like the first Mac was $5,000 or so. You don't have to change your lifestyle if you don't want to. Just like you could have stuck with audio cassettes if that's what you're into. To each his own. I rather have my music collection in my pocket following me wherever I go along with my data and work on this little device. You can stick with your trusty CD's... eww... and someone like you expects breaktrough time travel PDA's... go back to your LP's!

Ervino
Oct 23, 2001, 04:46 PM
400 bucks for a MP3 player on steroid? That's a real breaktrought, but in appl... ied stupidity!

Anyway, what can you really expect from the man that killed the Newton because it was "without a keyboard" (cfr Jobs himself words, ca Feb. 1998).

Bah! :( :( :( :( :(

My Two Bits...

Ervino

Beholder of Truth
Oct 23, 2001, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by tfaz1
5 gigs of storage - an mp3 player - firewire connectivity - Apple simplicity. But...

OPTICAL OUT? I mean, this is a digital device...

CD players are digital devices too, and they have been digital devices since they were introduced about 20 years ago. They don't come with optical out either, and I never saw anyone complain.

Traveler
Oct 23, 2001, 04:46 PM
It's called the pocket zip and it came out about a year ago. Granted, it doesn't hold 5gigs but it is expandable with original-gamboy-game-sized cartriges of 30mb each (smaller actually). It's sleek and even tinier than the ipod (half the size) and it is an mp3 player that also functions as a portable file drive for BOTH mac and pc. I was really impressed when I first saw it. I'm psyched about the advances in the ipod but so far there's no pc compatibility and it's essentially just a rip off. It's the claiming of a revolutionary product that dissapoints me. One could argue from the standpoint of combining new technologies the ipod is "new" but definitely not revolutionary and worse still, deep down I feel that Apple has done a little bit of plagiarizing.

Guest
Oct 23, 2001, 04:49 PM
Well, it's rather evenly split over how great / not great this device is.

The problem with it is this, Steve Jobs is a showman, so when he says "groundbreaking" he means something that is really cool and puts current technology to good use.

But of course everyone then assumed, oh yes Apple is bringing back the Newton - yeah, that's a good idea isn't it. Can anyone say psion? - NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO ENTER THE PDA MARKET.

Some ridiculous claims of it being a PS2 emulator - I was in tears when I heard that, extremely humorous. Then, to hear people suggesting it as being Ginger, which is rumoured to be a hydrogen powered scooter - that was just stupid, I mean you have to question the sanity of some people.

But the main rumor going round was that it was a souped up mp3 player - and a darn good one at that. Well, that's exactly what it is.

In my opinion the iPod is very cool, I want one. Oh and let's see (I'm in the uk) a RIO 800 with 128mb costs £299 - directly converting $ > £ of the iPod is somewhere near the £249 mark - which is fantastic value.

Guys, MP3 players aren't cheap! - Nobody has made one that can hold enough songs and be as portable as the iPod - I say it's pretty revolutionary.

For those of you bitching about how Apple should stay making computers - get a life! Apple is never going to make it big just making Mac's all it's life. I am really excited about Apple entering the consumer electronics market - this is obviously only step 1.

As for the price being too high, duh this is apple we're talking about, Mac's are overpriced, all their products are overpriced, but there's allways those HUGE glorious price slashes to look out for.

Good job on a cool little device Apple!

kingleon
Oct 23, 2001, 04:50 PM
But will it also work as a hard drive with my firewire digital camera? That kind of portable storage is worth something.

iThink
Oct 23, 2001, 04:54 PM
Well, Apple products strenght has always been design. Cool looks and killer ease-of-use, resulting in a better user experience.

That is the reason I always bought macs, even if they are more expensive and have smaller hard drives than the competition.

I look forward to try it!

Traveler
Oct 23, 2001, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by kingleon
But will it also work as a hard drive with my firewire digital camera? That kind of portable storage is worth something.



Way to think out of the box!

Beholder of Truth
Oct 23, 2001, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by Traveler
It's called the pocket zip and it came out about a year ago. Granted, it doesn't hold 5gigs but it is expandable with original-gamboy-game-sized cartriges of 30mb each (smaller actually). It's sleek and even tinier than the ipod (half the size) and it is an mp3 player that also functions as a portable file drive for BOTH mac and pc. I was really impressed when I first saw it. I'm psyched about the advances in the ipod but so far there's no pc compatibility and it's essentially just a rip off. It's the claiming of a revolutionary product that dissapoints me. One could argue from the standpoint of combining new technologies the ipod is "new" but definitely not revolutionary and worse still, deep down I feel that Apple has done a little bit of plagiarizing.

You guys just expect that revolutionary will mean "using technology from outer space" or something.

Ok, it combines technologies that are out there. So did the first Mac ever. So did the iMac. So? That's not what makes a product revolutionary.

Will you say the iMac was a ripoff too because it's just another computer with parts made by other companies? That's mumbo jumbo.

The way I see it, it's a device that does what mp3 players did, and MUCH more. There has never been a device that combined mp3 playing, data storage, firewire data transfer, automatic software synchronization, all in one small package. NEVER! And that "NEVER" is what makes it REVOLUTIONARY and GROUNDBREAKING. Look up those words in the dictionary.

You guys expect that everytime Apple says "breaktrough" it means they will come up with some time travel life reinventing miraculous technology. NOBODY can appeal to your expectations! Why don't you just let them be and try out new ideas and products instead of always expecting them to bring another personal computer revolution? That is just NUTS!

Revolution: A fundamental change.

Breaktrough: A sudden advance in technique.

Groundbreaking: Markedly innovative.

Say what you want, the iPod is all of this, in as small way as you may see it.

Beholder of Truth
Oct 23, 2001, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by kingleon
But will it also work as a hard drive with my firewire digital camera? That kind of portable storage is worth something.


No because (AFAIK) digital cameras are not smart enough to record directly to a firewire HD. You need special software to be able to import the video FROM the camera to the HD.

That's a great idea though and digital camcorder makers should think about implementing it.

myassmuh
Oct 23, 2001, 05:13 PM
i just marvel at the squandered potential of such design and thought at the hands of junior college marketers and accountants. doesn't anybody over there ever look at a price tag!?

the painful reality is that the market wants to move down on price and up on features [exactly what is causing the current bloodletting in the 'wintel' world] and if apple could just come out with a product that was appealing [which they do every three months] and priced well out of the gate [which never happens] then the market might recognize the innovations for what they really are. but that initial sticker shock will forever keep people away. or at least at bay until mikey or billy repackages it and cuts the price in half. thereby hamstringing the funding for future innovation.

oh no, its that PC guy
Oct 23, 2001, 05:20 PM
Everyone here seems to take a side. I’m here just to say that, while it may Jobs hasn’t reinvented the wheel, he has come up with a compelling product, even at the price offered. I like it.

Ok, so it's not 100x better than the competition, but I'll put my money that they'll push a couple of units (provided they're pushed through mass-merchant channels).

I'm a gadget freak, and even as a PC user (The truth comes out. PC's are my roots, but I constantly get M.I.S., Mac Envy Syndrome, and I'd be the first to tell anti-macs they're full of ****. Pardon my French.) I think the iPod is awesome, and, besides the price, it sticks up heads above the rest.

To the Sony clie freaks:
I have a Sony Clie, and it sucks. period. Who wants to wait an hour to load up a $499 player with a $200 memory stick, only to leave the house with the gargantuan in your pocket and end up getting a cracked screen? not me.

To the Nomad and RioVolt freaks:
I own a RioVolt, and I've gotten a lot of bang for my buck out of it. But what I've always wanted was a player that didn't murder my wallet with the cost of media, didn't devour my schedule when I wanted to download songs, and a player that could fit in my pocket and take the stresses of everyday biking and walking.

The only cons I see:
1) As I stated before, I'm a PC user, and compatibility may be an issue, especially since I don't have a FireWire card. I think that is a small price to pay for such a cool device.
2) Since I don't know that many people with Macs, or firewire cards for that matter, I probably won't get much use out of the portable HD feature, but I'm still intrigued.

So, in conclusion: I'm sold.

The iPod: Smaller, faster, maybe not cheaper, but definitely better.

Responses appreciated.

myassmuh
Oct 23, 2001, 05:53 PM
i'm not expecting a $200 time machine, but damn, why can't i have a $200 ipod. or even better a $50 or $100 dollar product that can expand userbase and introduce people to the apple product line. want people in the stores? try offering a deal, steve.

arn
Oct 23, 2001, 05:53 PM
Someone posted a price list early in the thread... :

>20GB hard drive: $199 from APS tech.
>MP3 player: $50 from Best Buy.

But he forgot to integrate the two in a soze smaller than the hard drive alone.

Go look at the links/UI of the device. It's pretty sweet - and it interfaces with your mac/itunes seemlessly.

A nice package - plus it's SMALLER than the other HD MP3 players.

You can waste $200 for a 20gig MP3 player that is too bulky to carry around... or you can spend $400 on one you will actually take with you. (and will work on your mac and itunes)

arn

ccindy
Oct 23, 2001, 06:03 PM
Look, you say a 20 gig hard drive is $199, ok, but thats a computer hard drive, the 5 gig in the iPod is a small portable hard drive, the smaller, the more exspensive, look at laptops and you'll understand. BTW, if your paying $199 for a 20 gig, your paying too much, up here, we don't pay over $150 for a 40 gig. Also, that %50 buck mp3 player is probally crap, how much memory for storage does it have? Not 5 gigs, and if it can be exspanded, which cheap ones like that usually cant, it still can't go to 5 gigs Also, its battery life would probally suck, and it most likely isnt firewire.

What I'm saying here is that the iPod is quality, yes it would be nice if the price was lower, but, thats not the case, in all actuallity, for what you get with the iPod, all of its features, $399 is probally a real good price, look at the Rio's for instence, yes, they are cheaper, but cheaper in features as well, the $399 price tag for the iPod is justified. Have fun. BTW, I am totally excited about this, the iPod rocks, and this is only teh beginning of Apple's new products, Long Live Apple.

max
Oct 23, 2001, 06:14 PM
On a slightly diferent note - while everyone was on that cat foom in the minutes before the iPod was introduces, someone pointed out that on the Japanese Apple site http://www.apple.co.jp there was the 'AirMac'. Is this just the Japanese version of AirPort? It looks like it.

Also, it said somewhere beforehand that the iPod was to be the first in a long line of Apple's digital hub products. What's next? Any ideas? When's it coming out?

a Guest named John
Oct 23, 2001, 06:21 PM
Yes, the AirMac is just the Japanese word for AirPort. I guess they figured the word "AirPort" might confuse a non-English speaking consumer. ;-)

http://www.apple.co.jp/powerbook/wireless.html

greenplasticcup
Oct 23, 2001, 06:26 PM
Wow guys. I have to say I side with those who like the product.

For those hoping for a PDA and enraged that you didn't get it, it seems like you are in the minority. Some of the people on this board are saying that it's simply obvious that Apple should come out with a $200 pda instead of throwing another PDA into the market.

Hmm.... the PDA market is as equally full of options as the MP3 market.

There's very little money to be made from PDA's. It's a hard industry to get in to. The markup on them is pennies.

But everyone's an expert aren't they, you have done the market research, you know exactly where Apple missed the mark.

Did you ever consider that you might not be in apple's target market? I don't think I am. I don't have enough cash. I still buy apple's products though. I just can't get exactly what I want.

The iPod is adequately priced. The 1.8" drives they put in them are very expensive. There's a new pocket drive (5GB) coming out soon called the Firefly. Suggested retail price: $399. Max capacity at this point for the 1.8" ones: 5GB.



__________________
**
Quiet Music should be played
Loud.
Over the Rhine

Coffee Talk
Oct 23, 2001, 06:36 PM
More food for thought:

With 32Megabytes of solid state cache, the iPod has 20 minutes of skip protection. (oh yeah, and HD's are less likely to skip than their optical based counterparts)

coooter
Oct 23, 2001, 06:47 PM
....I hink some people are missing the point. We are Mac users, right? We do pay a little more for beter stuff. No? We do like things like solid integration, great I.D., and leading edge technology. Right?

I ordered one at 11:02pdt. Why? Well, its does everything all in one package. Lets say you are going on a trip. Need to some tunes. Grab the iPod. Don't forget tot ake those digital photos you were gonna have printed at the high-res photo printer (or that paper you needed to print out, or the file your buddy wanted a copy of, or that short movie for grandma). Still, just need the iPod. Oh yeah, its a long trip, 6 hours, I guess. Still only need the iPod.

Well, if you were going with the competition, you would need the Nomad, some extra batteries (maybe a recharger), plus you need the external FW hard drive. Guess you'll need a big bag to put all that in.

Or you could drop the whole thing in your shirt pocket.

Here is what I have found- the smaller and easier to carry around and use a product is, the more often it gets used. It the reason why small cameras get used more than big cameras.

I have a very nice Canon EOS setup that I use only for for serious work. I also have a nice little Canon Digital Elph that gets a lot of use because I can stick it in my pocket. I take it places I would never take a bigger camera. It was almost as expensive as the body of my SLR, but it gets a bit more use. So, its a relative better deal. Cost same: used more.

The same with the iPod. Its gonna be a geat product becasue it is multi-purposed and unobtrusive.

Although I agree the price is a tad dear. $329 would be more reasonable.

Anyhoo.....I can't wait for mine to get here.

oh no, its that PC guy
Oct 23, 2001, 07:17 PM
I wholeheartedly agree cooter. (and I've had my eye on eye on a Canon super portable dig. camera for a while myself. It will get so much more use than the bulky Olympus I currently use)

The iPod: Smaller, faster, maybe not cheaper, but definitely better.

oh no, its that PC guy
Oct 23, 2001, 07:18 PM
Has there been any word on whether the iPod will be compatible with PC's? I've checked the iPod site and called the Apple store in Plano, TX, but neither could say.

Screamingbeaver
Oct 23, 2001, 07:20 PM
Hey I just saw today that Creative Tech. has a Nomad Jukbox with a 20 Gig drive! Wow! that's 4,000 songs. Now thats more like my CD collection. I wonder how compatiable it is with iTunes. Does anyone know? Has anyone used one? I was in the market for an MP3 player recently, and I thought I was gonna go Compact flash, 'cause then I could use the same media in my camera as well. As much as I love the iPod and love Apple, a 20 Gig MP3 player for the same price (although heavier) sure does look attractive.

zieroh
Oct 23, 2001, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by myassmuh
i'm not expecting a $200 time machine, but damn, why can't i have a $200 ipod. or even better a $50 or $100 dollar product that can expand userbase and introduce people to the apple product line. want people in the stores? try offering a deal, steve.

The $50-$200 MP3 player market is already well populated by cut-throat manufacturers who are either losing money or operating on razor-thin margins, producing lackluster under-powered devices with clumsy interfaces.

Now, what does Apple have to gain by putting out yet another under-powered device (64MB flash, for example) at a financial loss? Just because that's what you want to pay for a kick-ass device doesn't mean that it's financially feasible (or prudent) to do so. Besides, they would just be roundly criticized for putting out an under-powered piece of crap.

Apple's market has traditionally been putting out products that are well thought out and well integrated. That's their niche. As in many other industries, the really well-done products cost more.

Miniaturization costs more. Directly related proof: compare the price per gigabyte of 3.5" and 2.5" drives. Pretty big difference, yes? The iPod has a really small drive that cost Apple more $$$. Their innovation was getting the whole device down to a reasonably portable size. Yes, that meant compromising storage (i.e. not using a 20G drive) but for that sacrifice you get a device that's way more portable.

If you don't like the price/portability trade off (and I submit to you that _any_ manufacturer would have to make this price/performance trade-off) then nobody is stopping you from buying a cheaper, less-capable device or even a cheeper, less-portable device. More power to you!

Apple simply saw a segment of a crowded market that no one was filling (disk-based, but still portable) and filled it to the best of their abilities. It's a cool product, and it may not fit everyone's taste. That's why the market has so many players -- theres an MP3 player out there that's right for _you_. Don't trash Apple just because they don't happen to meet your personal needs.

rekras
Oct 23, 2001, 08:04 PM
to screamingbeaver, that nomad may be nice but with it's usb connection it would take 46hours to fill up, is hard to use, kills batteries, and is very bulky, and id like to see a trip where ud be away from your computer so damn long that ud need 4,000 songs.

anyway im very pleased and impressed with the ipod, i think it is a great product that flaunts Apple's supperior design and quality. How good is that commercial too!??!!!! I wish I had the money to get one, but with the cost of of HD's I can see how they had to keep the high price. I'm hopeful that it will be a strong seller for apple this quarter although it's a very difficult time to sell. I think about 1/4th of all apple users will get one, and hopefully consumers will adopt it as well. The only thing im really concerned about is steve's comment to maybe bring it to the wintels further down the line. this is a scary thought, and it would defeat the whole purpose of swithching over too a mac. oh yea, and how cool is that new itunes with the equalizer, good ****.

mikedman
Oct 23, 2001, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by Beholder of Truth
Originally posted by mikedman

[B]But it doesn't store 5Gb of music does it? Just like I said. What's your point then?
you are right it stores 20Gb which is 4x as much

Ummm... no. It works as a FIREWIRE drive. And it's an mp3 player, not an external HD. THAT'S what is so awesome. And no other mp3 player does this. What's your point then?
I was refering to the device on thinkgeek
from their site:

"With a whopping storage capacity of 20 GB you can carry the equivalent of over 500 CDs! In addition, the Jukebox Studio 20 is a fully functioning USB Hard Drive. With its hot swappable, plug-and-play, USB connection, you can conveniently store and take along personal files, along with all your favorite music selections. "

Oh I thought we were discussing the wat against the Taliban... wtf
well i was refering to this:

You are all a bunch of imbecile crybabies. I bet you haven't even gone over the specs and all you can do is whine and cry because you didn't get a Newton. Get a life! I bet all you do is troll Mac bbs' critizicing Apple and how they can NEVER meet your stupid way out of this world expectations.
If calling people names makes you feel better go ahead, I have always been one of apple's biggest supporters. I was just hoping that when apple dove into a new market segment they would adopt the practice of enabling you to do something you can't with the competition, at a price that is better or at least competitive. This practice has been working pretty well with computers.

In your opinion it's not groundbreaking. But fact is it is, since it brings revolutionary technologies and innovations into the realm of mp3 players.

point taken. After reading into the power saving and hard drive wear-and-tear saving abilities I have more respect for this product. As is often the case with apple stuff the best features are not always the heavily hyped ones. I think when apple gets the price down 50 to 100 bucks they will start to sell like hot-cakes (I am not exactly sure how hot cakes sell but whatever).

-Slightly cooler?- Give me a break. If you can't see the amount of innovation and potential in this thing in the area of portable digital music devices it's no wonder you are laid-off.

aahhh yes, personal insults are good. My experience in the area of portable digital devices comes from USING them. As a user I don't see my experience being much improved with apples product. I suppose I should concede that I have pretty much stoped using mp3's as of late and switched to mini-disc. If apple really wanted to justify $399 for this nifty little thing they should include a high bitrate mp3 record mode. That would be groundbreaking.

-btw after reading the newest story on macrumors I am starting to understand why the price is so high. Maybe in a couple months things will come down a bit.

oh no, its that PC guy
Oct 23, 2001, 08:20 PM
The only thing im really concerned about is steve's comment to maybe bring it to the wintels further down the line. this is a scary thought, and it would defeat the whole purpose of swithching over too a mac

Well. There's no doubt that the PC market is huge, so I think Jobs has the right idea. To get the product to PC users who like apple's industrial design (aka M.E.S. - Mac Envy Syndrome).

I heard that PC compatibility isn't planned untill next year, but I hope Jobs gets it out before Christmas. (For his sake and for mine)

Either way, I can't wait untill the iPod comes to the PC world.

The iPod: Smaller, faster, better.

blackpeter
Oct 23, 2001, 08:22 PM
O.K. I want one BUT...
I will wait (as many will, I'm sure) for the next generation iPod which will hopefully be a little less expensive and maybe even a little beefier (8 or 10 gigs?). I was waiting for the FireFly and it's really cool that now I can get one straight from Apple (oh yeah - plus an MP3 player...)

My earlier comment about the optical out was (I believe) in regards to a legitimate concern. I know that most portable CD players lack this feature, which is pretty unnecessary when using the unit as a 'walkman.' But it'd really be nice to know that I was getting clean digital playback when I hooked up my iPod to a friend's home system to play mp3's (which are already inferior to CD's in sound quality). My minidisc player does this and I hope the next gen iPod will too. For me, this feature alone would justify the purchace of one at it's current price.

jefhatfield
Oct 23, 2001, 08:58 PM
desktop sales are in the toilet in the industry

networking, my field, is a dud and didn't ride well on the WAN and dot.com thing, business enterprise networking could only sustain five dollars a share for cisco because that is all it is really worth

high tech has to go somewhere and this may be it...if it is not, then high tech is close to dead right now

maybe biotech is it, maybe back to brick and mortar, it is anyone's guess right now

...i knew tiBook would do well at its introduction but was not so sure about the new iBook, but it did OK even though it looked like a vaio ripoff or an ordinary pc laptop

overall, the price seems a bit high and the product only seems revolutionary for apple and not for the whole high tech field in general...why not 299 or even 249?

i won't try to second guess steve jobs because he is still at apple and doing a decent job...as soon as things look bad, he's out like emilio was, this is business and he knows it as well as the board at apple

Capt Crunch
Oct 23, 2001, 09:00 PM
"I said the Cube was overpriced and should cost $1200, this piece of Sh... should cost no more than $90."

Bull. This thing is more advanced than anything on the market. I say $299. A Firewire HD by itslef costs about $300.

"Apple is selling a bunch of overpriced things like the TiBook that won't be resellable for more than $1300 in less than 6 month because it is not upgredable."

How is it not upgradeable? Do you see any other laptops with upgrade capabilities?

"This iPod is for spoil rich kids with insane parents or an Apple fan as fannatic as a Taliban. It has good features but forget about getting it for $399!!!! Never, who gets that thing is a very stupid person."

**** you. **** you to hell. Comparing anyone to the Taliban is a horrible thing to say.

"Steve Jobs is under terrible consuling or is under too much pot. This propusal is not realistic at all. If Apple does something like this again is going down. "

I agree that this is probably a bad business venture.

"This unit may work for an audio engeneer to record some conference or rock band on the field in place of buying a expensive DAT machine, that is the only real good market this machinne is gonna have."

Ummm, no. That fact that you can plug this puppy into any music device will make it a lot more useful. Its getting use in my car, at school, my stereo and on the run.

ShaolinMiddleFinger
Oct 23, 2001, 09:08 PM
now all we need now is someone to hack the iPod so we can use it like a pda... now that's thinking differently...

oldMac
Oct 23, 2001, 09:26 PM
The firefly folks must be pissed!

ShaolinMiddleFinger
Oct 23, 2001, 09:28 PM
someone should hack the iPod so we can use it as a Pda....

tonymantana
Oct 23, 2001, 09:30 PM
screaming beaver... i purchased a 20gb nomad jukebox through ebay for a little under $230. I received the player and put all of my songs on it approx. 3400. they took forever to transfer from my computer to the plyaer and then i had problems copying them from the player to another computer. It is confusing and does not include the option to make mulitple play lists. Although the ipod is more and holds less i feel that the features such as being able to transfer 1000 songs in about 10 minutes as opposed to five hours with usb makes things alot more convenient. Also the nomad often malfunctions, runs out of batteries(even when it has been charging all ), and takes forever to start up with that many songs on it. Although it is a great player i don't think it is even comparabale to the new ipod. Teh ipod has a good lcd screen which can light up...very useful feature...good method of searchign through songs ...the scroll wheel thing...multiple customizable playlists, 10 hour battery life, nice earphones, tiny size, quick firewire connection and damn it looks good. I am unsure of why it is getting such a bad wrap, granted it may be pricey, or only hold 1000 songs....oh god....but overall i would spend your money on an ipod. Well if it's gonna be that type of party i'm sticking my dick in the mashed potatoes

Oh m iGod
Oct 23, 2001, 09:56 PM
It's a shame that Apple doesn't have market awareness and released that yet again, has "missed the boat" before spending R&D, time and money on creating this now-novel audio device. You'd think they would've learnt from omitting CDRW drives from their machines a few years ago. Sure, it's got the largest capacity for it's size-class on the market, but I don't think that's enough to be called "revolutionary", albeit something which could even attempt to steal thunder from MS's XP release this week.

All I can say is that I'm really disappointed. So much hype and anticipation that it was hardly "groundbreaking", moreso "heartbreaking". Actually I'd like to know how they could sensationalise such a product which is hardly new, apart from the "add-on" technologies such as internal hard-drive (which I'm assuming is a 2.5" Travelstar or similar - is it robust enough to the impact of everyday bumps and knocks, even the occasional drop?) and the FireWire connectivity. I almost see it as re-inventing the wheel. But by the time it hits our shores, the pricing will be around $1000 Australian, which is enough to steer me away from it.. And I'm fairly sure most people would feel the same. If I want a device that will play more than your average 64Mb unit, I'd buy one of those MP3-playing CD units that although aren't as hand-savvy as the iPod, they don't damage the hip pocket so much. It also won't be as sexy as an iPod, but then again, I sometimes think we're being lured and brainwashed to pay for "form" over function: "Sure, it was expensive to buy, but it's made by Apple."

How about inbuilt equalisation and/or bass enhancement - can you customise the sound? Is there a belt-clip on it so you don't have to carry it around like a colostomy bag? Wait a minute, I believe colostomy bags attach to your belt or somewhat. ;)

We need to tell Apple about our disappointment. Email Alicia Awbrey (awbrey@apple.com) whom is the contact for the iPod, amongst other things.
Let them know of our disappointment because I sometimes wonder where they listen to us at all. I'm wondering what this will do to their index..

A total mis-market. What next? Oh heres an idea - what about a mouse with a WHEEL on it!

arn
Oct 23, 2001, 10:32 PM
Cost of 5gig drive that small retail = $399

arn

Beholder of Truth
Oct 23, 2001, 11:01 PM
The iPod is awesome. I don't see any need to email her.

First you say it's using already existing hardware, then you say they're reinventing the wheel.

Maybe when you stop contradicting yourself your arguments will become more logical.

This device is awesome. You don't have enough to buy it? Don't buy it. Buy your little CD mp3 player. Apple could not keep up with demand if anyone could afford it.

Just like a Ferrari or a BMW. If you can't afford them, get a Toyota.

Sure it's expensive, but it's a Ferrari. Nuff said.

NSCoder
Oct 23, 2001, 11:27 PM
I'm seeing a lot people making silly comparisons to disparate parts that would barely fit in a shoebox...let's be realistic and compare apples to ... well, the current top of the line mp3 device.


Here's the current top of the "pocket sized" portable...

384 MB SonicBlue Rio - *$459.95 :(
- Holds about 60 songs
- USB...slow compared to firewire
- Music only


Here's the iPod at $399 :)
-5 GB ~ 1000 songs at 160kb sample rate
-FireWire - can do 5 GB in about 8 minutes
-Can act as a firewire drive too
-It charges off of the FireWire cord or allows an adaptor to be plugged into the FireWire port so you can plug the whole device into the wall.
- Almost exactly the size of a deck of cards (the RIO is pretty smalll too though)


Just to make a point, the iPod basically costs .39 per song (based on 1000 songs). The RIO would cost $5.90 / song.

There's definately a great value compared to the current market. The unfortunate reality is that I bet Rio hasn't sold too many $459 mp3 players and I bet $399 is a little on the high side of people's speding limits for things like that.

It's exactly what I was looking for in an portable mp3 player but I will need to sell some blood first.

iStuffed
Oct 24, 2001, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by Beholder of Truth
The iPod is awesome. I don't see any need to email her.

First you say it's using already existing hardware, then you say they're reinventing the wheel.

Maybe when you stop contradicting yourself your arguments will become more logical.

This device is awesome. You don't have enough to buy it? Don't buy it. Buy your little CD mp3 player. Apple could not keep up with demand if anyone could afford it.

Just like a Ferrari or a BMW. If you can't afford them, get a Toyota.

Sure it's expensive, but it's a Ferrari. Nuff said.

Beholder of Truth, you're a tool. So you think its okay for Apple to "re-invent" a product (it is still an old idea, yet with higher-capacity and decent connectivity), and throw an Apple logo on it, and that justifies having to spend the additional money just because of the badge? Even if the price were doubled, yet with the same specifications, you'd still believe it was worth throwing your money away for it. It has good features, yes, but the device needs to be more competitive in price. It has to be profitable, yet affordable - it has to sell in volume to make Apple money, and this will not achieve the sales required to pay dividends. Only a select few will buy it. No one but those brainwashed by a fruity logo. You've demonstrated that you're the kind of person who splurges out on designer label clothes, oblivious to the blatant ripoff of the article. What a superficial sheep you are.

And since when is not keeping up with demand a bad thing?

"Nuff said."

SPG
Oct 24, 2001, 12:48 AM
Don't count me amongst the whiners since I know I will wind up with one of these sooner or later, but I'm still very curious as to the sound quality. I read the apple site, so I have my hopes up for better than average MP3 quality, but I will have to hear one of these units firsthand before plunking down the cash.
If this is running on iTunes2, will there be a way to use the equalizer like in iTunes2?
What about firmware upgrades?
What about third party hacks?
...looking forward to it.

Anyway, this is pretty freaking cool if you live the jetset or even mundane commute...Every song that you actually like for the ride, a bunch of files, graphics, jokes, porn, whatever to hook up to anybody else's mac on a moments notice. This would've been perfect for my trip to NYC last week, music for the flight, and then video clips and photoshop files to show highlights of my current film project without having to lug my own computer on the airplane and subway.

Jø®n
Oct 24, 2001, 01:52 AM
This thing got a lot of potential, a 5 gb hardrive, almost as big as the original drive in my pismo. I promise you guys that they will come out with some nifty software for this little beauty. This will go farther then a nice looking MP3 player.

And Apple needed something to get some attention away from Microsoft and Xmas is coming the right time to buy some gadgets for you loved ones.

If I will buy one, maybe my loved one will buy me one?

Jø®n

pupdog
Oct 24, 2001, 07:05 AM
For all those folks complaining that the iPod should only cost about $90... I'd like to be able to buy a new Mercedes SLK for 6grand, or maybe a Gulfstream for 25Grand too - sad fact is, it costs much more than that to maufacture these items (actual cost of the materials, R&D, labor, shipping, storage... all that biz school crap). I agree, if the iPod werer $90 I'd already have a couple on order, but seeing as how I can barely buy the component drive and a decent pair of headphones fot the price of the iPod, I'm willing to let Apple charge $399. Those of you clamoring for $100 items would be the same ones bitching in 3-6 months about Apple's idiocy in taking a 200% loss on an item just to put it on the market...

Too bad we all don't have fairy godmothers to help keep our fantasy worlds running smoothly.

akuma
Oct 24, 2001, 08:13 AM
It has to be profitable, yet affordable - it has to sell in volume to make Apple money, and this will not achieve the sales required to pay dividends.

Last I checked, Apple doesn't pay their shareholders dividends

r_peteranderl
Oct 24, 2001, 11:43 AM
I don't think the $399 is too far off from what the market will bear. I think the closest product you can compare the iPod to is a minidisc recorder: small enough to carry in a pocket, reasonably long battery life (although MD players are by now in the 100 h range), cool looking techno gadget. Sony has been introducing their latest top-of-the-line models at a pretty constant $350 price point, and they seem to be finding buyers. I think that rather than selling computer peripherals Apple is trying to move onto Sony's turf. Music consumers are often willing to spend a whole lot more money than their computer counterparts. Yes, you can buy a $39 CD player at Walmart, but that is of no importance to the audiophile. Aside from that, Apple might not really go after the US market, but after countries where people are keen on small, fancy techno gadgets (Japan comes to mind...)

Beholder of Truth
Oct 24, 2001, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by iStuffed
Beholder of Truth, you're a tool.

Ummm... sure. Make it a Craftsman.

So you think its okay for Apple to "re-invent" a product (it is still an old idea, yet with higher-capacity and decent connectivity), and throw an Apple logo on it, and that justifies having to spend the additional money just because of the badge?

No, you see... there are some people with a bit more intelligence than you that can go and read the specs and see how this product is completely different. Not an old product with an Apple logo. Can an old mp3 player transfer gigs of mp3's in minutes? No. Can you boot a mac from an old mp3 player? No. Can you record from your digital camera straight to any other mp3 player? No. Does any other mp3 player automatically sync with your computer? No. Does any other mp3 player has a battery that lasts 10 hours? No. Is any other mp3 player that tiny WHILE at the SAME TIME having so much capacity? No.

But I know you don't get any of this, and you just think it's an old mp3 player with an Apple logo. It's ok, the world has places for people with no intelligence. You'll be ok.

Even if the price were doubled, yet with the same specifications, you'd still believe it was worth throwing your money away for it. It has good features, yes, but the device needs to be more competitive in price.

Uhhh... first you say it has no new features. Now you're saying "IF it had the same specifications you'd still throw your money at it". So now you're saying it DOES have new features. This is the second time you contradict yourself. Just shows what an incoherent moron you are. :)

It has to be profitable, yet affordable - it has to sell in volume to make Apple money, and this will not achieve the sales required to pay dividends.

Want to make a bet? This thing is pretty much risk-free for Apple. And I guarantee it will sell like hot cakes. Among rich kids? Maybe. Fact is they will all want one, and Apple will make a lot of money. What pisses you off is that you can't buy one. That doesn't mean the product is bad.

Only a select few will buy it. No one but those brainwashed by a fruity logo. You've demonstrated that you're the kind of person who splurges out on designer label clothes, oblivious to the blatant ripoff of the article. What a superficial sheep you are.

LOL first of all I never said I would buy one, which just makes your complete paragraph false, and makes you look (even more) like an idiot. Second, a lot of people will buy it, a lot of people that don't give a crap about the logo, but who know what an amazing product it is, and who know it's worth it's price. People who can see beyond their nose, unlike you.

And since when is not keeping up with demand a bad thing?

Uhhh... since companies lose their reputation for not fulfilling their customers orders.

"Nuff said." [/B]

Yup. You lose.

ebound
Oct 24, 2001, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by SPG

If this is running on iTunes2, will there be a way to use the equalizer like in iTunes2?

Each Mp3 on your hard drive will have a different equalizer setting, if you want. So if you switched to a song w/ a different eq setting, it'd change it automatically. When you transfer a song to your iPod, the eq setting will go with it.

Capt Crunch
Oct 24, 2001, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by iStuffed
Originally posted by Beholder of Truth
The iPod is awesome. I don't see any need to email her.

First you say it's using already existing hardware, then you say they're reinventing the wheel.

Maybe when you stop contradicting yourself your arguments will become more logical.

This device is awesome. You don't have enough to buy it? Don't buy it. Buy your little CD mp3 player. Apple could not keep up with demand if anyone could afford it.

Just like a Ferrari or a BMW. If you can't afford them, get a Toyota.

Sure it's expensive, but it's a Ferrari. Nuff said.

Beholder of Truth, you're a tool. So you think its okay for Apple to "re-invent" a product (it is still an old idea, yet with higher-capacity and decent connectivity), and throw an Apple logo on it, and that justifies having to spend the additional money just because of the badge? Even if the price were doubled, yet with the same specifications, you'd still believe it was worth throwing your money away for it. It has good features, yes, but the device needs to be more competitive in price. It has to be profitable, yet affordable - it has to sell in volume to make Apple money, and this will not achieve the sales required to pay dividends. Only a select few will buy it. No one but those brainwashed by a fruity logo. You've demonstrated that you're the kind of person who splurges out on designer label clothes, oblivious to the blatant ripoff of the article. What a superficial sheep you are.

And since when is not keeping up with demand a bad thing?

"Nuff said."

Your an idiot. He is completely right. This stuff is expensive, but it's better. You get what you PAY FOR. You can pay less, and get something of lesser quality, or you can pay more and get this. You can buy a Honda Civic with less than 200 HP, or you can buy a Porche with 400+ HP. Which is better? Hmm... lets think. The fact is that better usually = costs more. Get that into your thick head. You make stupid comments, make rash generalizations and are overally ignorant. You're the kind of person that looks at a person wearing any kind of name brand clothing and immediatly thinks they are a poser. If this thing was made by Rio and had the same features, I would be just as excited.

There are some people that think that just because they don't want a particular thing, they think it is stupid. Whether this is a "sour grapes" thing or not, these people seem to think that it is their god-given duty to ridicule the product, and those who want to buy them. PC trollers are a good example. They think Macs are worthless, so they make judgement on those who use Macs. Now we have idiots who think they know the "truth" about what constitues a good product and how if anyone differs from their "enlightened" opinion, they are mindless sheep following the crowd. Possibly. Or maybe they LIKE THE GOD DAMN PRODUCT.

If you don't like it, don't buy it, and voice your opinion. DONT make fun of people who want it, and don't make stupid-ass remarks like "loyal like the Taliban." Some people really need to step back and realise what they are saying sometimes.

So if your an idiot, shut up, you don't deserve to speak. Let those with at least half a brain talk. Just sit at home thinking about how youre alone... but hey, at least youre independent.

jefhatfield
Oct 24, 2001, 11:51 PM
being a network tech, i could understand how cool constantly improved servers would be but look at the market and see where networking has been headed

straight down the tubes (stock wise)...just look at nortel and cisco

jobs is right in pushing devices with just one computer instead of many computers with hubs and servers, like the late 90s trend

pushing mac servers right now would be like pushing dot.com stock

devices, no matter how toy like, sell like crazy and this may be a good time for apple since intel had to pull out of that market because they have a real war on their hands right now with AMD in which more and more pc techs like me seem to be thinking AMD is winning...i mean, do we really think Intel's P4 is really that fast?

...oh, about that dot.com stock

mikedman
Oct 25, 2001, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by Capt Crunch
Your an idiot. He is completely right. This stuff is expensive, but it's better. You get what you PAY FOR. You can pay less, and get something of lesser quality, or you can pay more and get this. You can buy a Honda Civic with less than 200 HP, or you can buy a Porche with 400+ HP. Which is better? Hmm... lets think.


if that were true we would all be using sparc workstations. More expensive in not always better for what you want to do, in fact the second most expensive product is usually as good or better because that guy has to compete with the dude who has the market clout to charge whatever they want.

Get that into your thick head. You make stupid comments, make rash generalizations and are overally ignorant. You're the kind of person that looks at a person wearing any kind of name brand clothing and immediatly thinks they are a poser.

You are correct. People who make rash generalizations are usually rushing to judgement. But people who respond to personal insults with personal insults are making their own rash generalizations and are sinking to that persons level.
Argue with facts man.

If this thing was made by Rio and had the same features, I would be just as excited.

I wouldn't... the main reason I like this thing is because apple is finaly applying their vast talent pool and insightful design to devices other than Macs. Thier clout with suppliers and demanding standards are what make devices like the iPod possible.

If you don't like it, don't buy it, and voice your opinion. DONT make fun of people who want it...

Here Here the most important vote in a capitalist society is the one made with the pocket book.

So if your an idiot, shut up, you don't deserve to speak. Let those with at least half a brain talk.

Sorry dude but the entire point of our little country is the fact that those you might consider idiots have a right to voice their opinion. Places where people live by your rules have a name Facist States you don't have to agree with it but people are here to discuss their opinions of an Apple product, not the various traits of the persons posting.


That said where can I sign up to buy an iPod..... for $299.

[Edited by mikedman on 10-25-2001 at 01:18 AM]

jefhatfield
Oct 25, 2001, 11:03 AM
299 is it, well said mike and welcome (even if you think with the other half a brain and believe in free speech)

i use my brain stem to think when it comes to new mac stuff, it's automatic!!!!

where can i also sign up!!!!!

myassmuh
Oct 26, 2001, 03:03 PM
yes it's cool, but it is cost prohibitive. sure you can design and build something nobody else did or can, but this isn't art this is a commodity, and commodities tend to be held hostage to some sort of economic system where people trade stuff for it.

note also that apple is saying "everyone will want one" - well no ****, but who will pay for one?

look at rolls royce, bentley, lamborghini, maserati, etc. these producers of exquisite objects had to be saved by more viable businesses because their business model wasn't working, they couldn't develop technologies quick enough and their r&d was ****. and the tech industries are a little more fast-paced and cutthroat than the automotive one.

the model works okay for the niche apple has developed in the design fields, but why would they move into another market [consumer electronics] and put themselves immediately in a niche?

yes apple develops cool products, but if they could sometime just make something that not only would everybody want, but more than 5% could afford. notice who the saviors of the auto industry are: vw [bentley, lambo, bugatti]; bmw [rover[kind of], rolls]; fiat/ferrari [maserati]. each of those companies has found a model that works, so well in fact that they had enough extra time/money/peeps to buy someone else and turn them around.

whatever, i gotta work.

jefhatfield
Oct 26, 2001, 08:30 PM
since the iPod, I've been glued to macrumors.com more and more

the cost of of iPod does not sound prohibitive in and of itself, but when i see it in the Apple Store online next to a $799.00 iMac, then i start saying to myself, "For twice the price, I could buy a new iMac!"

looking at it that way makes the iPod look pricey

i don't think i am the only one vascillating back and forth on this product...if it were 299.00 or less, i wouldn't feel as hesitant