Drugs

[Phat_Pat]

so i just finished my first year at college. (united states... california)

living in the dorms i was obviously exposed to a great deal of drugs... pretty much almost anything you can image i've seen/delt with. (obviously i havent seen or delt with all... i'm just saying ive seen alot)

im not sure of of macrumors policy on drug talk, or of that nature, but i was curious on what everyone thought was acceptable usage?

or if any form of intoxicant is acceptable... even in small usages

wheres the boundary in everyones mind?

can their be a balance?

[richard.mac]

if MacRumors does allow a discussion on this matter, what have you seen and dealt with?

i believe anything made or manufactured synthetically is very harmful and should not be taken. it can become addictive very quickly.

natural drugs i feel very different about and can be used in moderation.

[strider42]

Honestly, I could care less what people do in their own homes and recreationally, so I am in favor of legalizing drugs (though I don't touch any of them myself). The only ones I see that need regulating at all are those that are super addictive, like heroin. pot, cocaine, lsd, shrooms, should, in my mind, be legal to buy and sell. Would certainly cost us a lot less in enforcement, incarceration and make money in taxes. Most are certainly less dangerous and addictive than alcohol. legal drugs with stiff penalties for driving under the influence works well for me.

And yes, lots of people find a good balance with all those drugs. People sometimes don't, but I think that can happen with just about anything in your life, even going to the gym or going out to clubs.

Personally none of them agree with me. My mind and body feel to separated and I don't like it. And many last too long and I hate the idea of being out of control for that long.

[ZiggyPastorius]

I agree with the last poster quite a bit. There would be huge benefits to legalising drugs, especially when you consider the fact that keeping them illegal DOESN'T WORK IN STOPPING THEM. Plus, if they were legal, regulations on them would exist, and thus, we could try to make them a bit safer to take. I absolutely hate drugs and when people abuse alcohol, and most of the time, someone telling me "I use this drug," or "I get drunk all the time," is enough for me to say "I'm going this way now." I can't stand drug-use, I hate seeing people use drugs, I don't want them around me, I don't want them anywhere, but I 100% support the legalisation of all drugs. I see no reason to keep them illegal any longer, as it's a waste of money for something that isn't working, and it doesn't affect me at all. When it does, I leave, simple as that.

[zioxide]

Most drugs are bad.

Weed is good :D and it should be legalized. This country wastes waaaay too much money arresting people and jailing them over a plant. Legalizing it would save us tons of money, plus it could be taxed for even more money.

Alcohol and cigarettes are far worse for you than marijuana.

[MacGeek7]

I see no reason to keep them illegal any longer, as it's a waste of money for something that isn't working, and it doesn't affect me at all. When it does, I leave, simple as that.


Most drugs are bad. Weed is good :D and it should be legalized. This country wastes waaaay too much money arresting people and jailing them over a plant. Legalizing it would save us tons of money, plus it could be taxed for even more money.

Alcohol and cigarettes are far worse for you than marijuana.

Well said both of you - I have nothing to add :)

[PlaceofDis]

this will probably be moved to the PRSI forums, but in any event:

there are a good deal of drugs that are horrible and can cause addiction. there are some that are illegal that are, for the most part, harmless.

is there anything wrong with drug usage? no. but it is something that a lot of people can't handle, at least in the US, people are horrible at self-regulation and keeping things in moderation.

but, the 'war on drugs' is a waste of money and there are a few, or at least one drug that should be legalized in order to make things a bit safer for everyone, which really is the biggest problem with them right now: without standards drugs can become very dangerous as you don't know what it is you're getting exactly. at least not all the time. i'd rather have a regulated and taxed industry that leads to better quality and less wasted law enforcement resources.

that said, i don't have much desire to use any drugs, but even the legal ones: tobacco, pain meds, alcohol are dangerous as it is and deadly or moreso than some of the illegal ones. i don't like the cherry picking of which ones are 'okay'.

[Surely]

if MacRumors does allow a discussion on this matter, what have you seen and dealt with?

i believe anything made or manufactured synthetically is very harmful and should not be taken. it can become addictive very quickly.

natural drugs i feel very different about and can be used in moderation.

I can agree with that.


/Dave's not home.

[benmrii]

/Dave's not home.

Hah!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7gWB7IzxtU

[Drumjim85]

in my opinion, all drugs (including advil) are poison and should be avoided if at all possible.

[SamIchi]

Something tells me this will turn to a Marijuana thread, go off track and become wasteland'd.

I agree with money being wasted on the drug war. It's comes down to America holding onto it's pride and being too stubborn to admit they were wrong. There has been more than a few times where marijuana was the scapegoat to America's problems.

[LethalWolfe]

im not sure of of macrumors policy on drug talk, or of that nature, but i was curious on what everyone thought was acceptable usage?

I don't know what MR's official policy is, but I would not suggest saying anything incriminating. You never know who is on the boards and what you post here will be forever searchable in the bowels Google.

As far as acceptable usage, that depends on the person. Everything in moderation, IMO, and your life/daily routine shouldn't revolve around the next time you use. For example, if you feel you need a drink, smoke, or whatever at the end of each day to "unwind" then you are probably using the drugs to mask a deeper problem and that's not healthy.


Lethal

[EricNau]

i believe anything made or manufactured synthetically is very harmful and should not be taken. it can become addictive very quickly.

natural drugs i feel very different about and can be used in moderation.
There's absolutely no basis for that argument. 100% "all natural" drugs can be just as dangerous and addicting as manmade drugs, and there's no reason to believe that "all natural" drugs have any advantage for human wellness over manmade drugs.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

There's absolutely no basis for that argument. 100% "all natural" drugs can be just as dangerous and addicting as manmade drugs, and there's no reason to believe that "all natural" drugs have any advantage for human wellness over manmade drugs.

Not true I'll eat a pufferfish like an apple before I'll ever take an advil!

[Badandy]

I, too, hate when people mention that something is "all natural." I literally hear this all of the time. People think that because something is "natural" or "grows in nature" that it isn't destructive/poisenous/addictive/bad for you? Honestly?


What did Socrates die of again? Oh yes, that...

[Gelfin]

Pure, 100% All-Natural Rattlesnake Venom. Try some today!

These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. Not intended to treat, prevent or cure any disease or condition.

[edesignuk]

I think it's a tricky one.

Everywhere should legalise pot IMO. I can't recall the last time I heard of a pot head beating anyone up, causing trouble, mugging/robbing people for money to feed their 'habit'. As others have said, alcohol and tobacco seem to cause more problems. Now I realise this is because they are in wider use, but even if you were to put things on an even playing field I don't see pot being any worse.

When you're talking the hardcore class A's though, I think it's very different. Sure, maybe people should be free to do as they please, problem there is that these do cause massive problems for people outside of just the 'user'.

[richard.mac]

There's absolutely no basis for that argument. 100% "all natural" drugs can be just as dangerous and addicting as manmade drugs, and there's no reason to believe that "all natural" drugs have any advantage for human wellness over manmade drugs.

its not an arguement its just how i feel and what i believe. marijuana, peyote, mushrooms etc might have dangerous long term effects if taken in high dosages over a number of years but they are not as addictive and not as both physically and mentally harmful as tobacco or alcohol… yeh i have a few spliffs (joints) every now and again with a few mates.

I, too, hate when people mention that something is "all natural." I literally hear this all of the time. People think that because something is "natural" or "grows in nature" that it isn't destructive/poisenous/addictive/bad for you? Honestly?


What did Socrates die of again? Oh yes, that...

i didnt mean "all" natural neither did i say it. a lot of growers these days use hydroponics and mix god knows what with it. what i meant is the basis is natural as its a plant that grows in the ground from mother nature.

[Mord]

natural drugs i feel very different about and can be used in moderation.

So Various opioids, cocaine, Datura stramonium and shrooms are intrinsically better for you than LSD, MDMA, 2CB and 4-AcO-DMT?

Nearly all drugs are in general a bad idea, all but a few of them tend to upset your chemical balance, cause receptor downregulation and generally screw you over in one way or another.

Whether a drug is natural or not is pretty much irrelevant, whether it is free of adulterants or free of other random unpleasant psychoactive in it's natural state and of course whether the substance itself is vaguely fun/safe is very much relevant and by that metric whether something is natural or not is inconsequential.

You can pretty much screw yourself up on anything, I may be a tie dye wearing acid dropping hippy but I don't have any illusions to this.

[Peterkro]

receptor down regulation.:confused:

[Mord]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downregulation

Example: You start taking an SSRI which causes elevated levels of serotonin, your serotonin receptors then downregulate to compensate so after a few months on the drug it doesn't seem to be working anymore though if you stop taking it due to the lag in upregulation you experience the joys of serotonin starvation for a week or two as your brain readjusts to the new levels.

Tolerance to drugs typically works by this mechanism and the issues caused by drug abuse are often due to your brain not working properly as it recovers. This is why I don't do anything psychoactive more than once a month or so, this does not apply to all drugs just a hell of allot of them.

[Peterkro]

O.K. I've got it. It's just that I was reading a article on management bollocks speak immediately before reading that,it's certainly an ugly use of language but at least I know what it means now.

[Dagless]

I'm not really a fan of drugs so whatever legal status they want to give them won't affect me, apart from the mugging and such to get money for a fix.

After seeing how just cannabis ******** up my brother I'd probably have a nice little counter argument for the "it's nothing but good for you" folk, but it's way too early for me.
Oh let's throw 1 point out there...
He stole money from an aunt, from me and from his place of work during Work Experience just to feed his pot habit. No pills, no booze, just pot. It got so bad we had to install locks on mine and my parents bedroom doors and money is never to be left outside these rooms.

[edesignuk]

I'm not really a fan of drugs so whatever legal status they want to give them won't affect me, apart from the mugging and such to get money for a fix.

After seeing how just cannabis ******** up my brother I'd probably have a nice little counter argument for the "it's nothing but good for you" folk, but it's way too early for me.
Oh let's throw 1 point out there...
He stole money from an aunt, from me and from his place of work during Work Experience just to feed his pot habit. No pills, no booze, just pot.I wouldn't doubt in large quantities it would render you a useless waste of annoying space, but then exactly the can can easily be said for alcohol - which as we all know is legal, and generally makes people behave like cocky wankers.

Not trying to justify his behaviour at all, it sucks when people become dependant on anything and cause agro for other people in seeking more of it. I don't know anything about your brother, but I'd wager if it were a drinking problem of equal seriousness, it would have been even worse.

[Mord]

I'm not really a fan of drugs so whatever legal status they want to give them won't affect me, apart from the mugging and such to get money for a fix.

After seeing how just cannabis ******** up my brother I'd probably have a nice little counter argument for the "it's nothing but good for you" folk, but it's way too early for me.
Oh let's throw 1 point out there...
He stole money from an aunt, from me and from his place of work during Work Experience just to feed his pot habit. No pills, no booze, just pot.

I dislike pot intensely myself, I hate what it does to people and I've seen it turn those I care about into useless zombies but your brothers problems are down to him simply being a prick, it doesn't change your personality and it's not physically addictive, he was just a selfish twunt.

[Dagless]

I agree with both of you, he's somehow got some psychological addiction to it. But it's still pot and it still ruined a good few years of his life.

I'm kinda thankful it was just pot, something that isn't too damaging. If he was addicted to alcohol then god knows what might have happened. It's definitely had some long term affect on his mental health though, like he's permanently partially stoned.

[themadchemist]

if MacRumors does allow a discussion on this matter, what have you seen and dealt with?

i believe anything made or manufactured synthetically is very harmful and should not be taken. it can become addictive very quickly.

natural drugs i feel very different about and can be used in moderation.

I've never understood this distinction. Just because something is natural, it doesn't mean that it's not viciously addictive or violently toxic.

[Eraserhead]

Most drugs are bad.

Well that's kind of true.

Weed ... should be legalized.

Its not the only one.

I think you should legalise everything based on its danger level, anything less dangerous than alcohol (according to current scientific research) should be able to be purchased by anyone of a suitable age.

Anything more dangerous should be only available on prescription to addicts.

[yellow]

natural drugs i feel very different about and can be used in moderation.

Where do you draw the line?

Cocaine, heroin, opium, morphine, etc etc. are all derivatives of "natural" drugs. And if you can agree to that, then freebasing/crack are further derivatives of cocaine. All of these are quite addictive.

[KingYaba]

wheres the boundary in everyones mind?

can their be a balance?

I don't give a **** as long as long as my life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness remains intact. But if a friend needs help to get off the stuff, I'm there for 'em.

[Digital Skunk]

I think a major part of the problem with drugs is that there can't be a legal limit or size or amount. The current problem is that people start off small, then start taking more and more and more until it becomes an addiction.

Making it legal and saying that you can only have but so many grams of the stuff won't help. People will still neglect their children and sell their shoes to get as much of the stuff as possible to get high.

The biggest reason for making some drug illegal or prescription only is due to it's ability to become addictive and the host to become dependent on it. The second is the government's ability to monitor and regulate the stuff.

[SMM]

I could write volumes on this subject, but I will spare you all from that. I just want to make a couple points, which some have already touched on.

If you were to make two columns, with the headers; Illegality of drug use and Use of drugs themselves. Then assign as many negatives, as you can think of, to one of the two columns, I think you will find that there are far more issues for society, with drugs being illegal. The war on drugs, which we have been fighting the same failed strategy for over 30 years. After spending billions on this, there is little, if any progress. The only person who keeps painting an optimistic picture, is the drug czar. (except at budget time)

My second point is, it would be quite possible for pharmaceutical companies to synthesize safer, much less harmful variants of virtually any illicit drugs. These would be by prescription, and require counseling before prescription was issued. A well thought-out plan, could begin to finally come up with an intelligent strategy to address the problem, without adding to the million plus prison population, all victims of drug use.

A few years ago, I took a fall while hiking in the mountains. I fractured my vertebrae in the L-5, S-1 area. I was given a choice, giving it up to a year, and seeing if it would heal on its own, or having surgery to push the spinal goo (nice technical term), and fusing the fracture closed. My doctor recommended the first option. Especially since I was dealing with high blood pressure at the time. She put me on long-term pain medication. What she did was give me methadone for use during the day. And at night, she rotated Oxycodone, Hydracodone, and Codeine. She explained, even though each of these drugs are opium derivatives, each is really a different drug. By rotating them, it greatly reduced the risk of addiction and tolerance build up. This has worked very well. It would be quite possible to make a rotating regimen, to offset many of the side affects of continued use. In summary, there are many options available, to minimize the risks to users, and provide a much better way for society to deal with the problem.

[scem0]

Having lived in a couple dorms, I've seen plenty of drug use as well. Lots of coke. I have no idea where students get the money for it, or why they'd want to waste their money on such a thing.

Weed, of course, is common, but I find it to be stinky and I'd guess that it would do little more than make me sleepy. I'm a mellow, low energy guy as is - weed is the last thing I need. Plus, I'm cheap, and I'd rather have food :).

My policy when it comes to drug use is to stay out of other's business, unless their my friend. If I know a friend is doing coke, then I start to detatch myself from them, because I don't have the patience to worry about my friends all the time. They should be a positive force in my life, not another burden. Weed, I'm okay with, but I strongly prefer it not be done around me. It really is one of the stinkiest, grossest things you can fill a room up with.

As for side effects of pot: I think there are adverse, long term side effects. A person I'm very close to has been smoking consistently since high school/college age. He now has slight temper problems. He has a lot of trouble managing his temper and stress levels without using weed. It's also affected his lungs quite a bit. So, like anything else, you really have to moderate. Weed might not be chemically addictive, but that doesn't mean you can't form psychological dependencies on it.

When it comes to drugs, I prefer to be safe rather than sorry. So, I've never experimented with any drugs. I don't have the money, and I suppose I'm just not that curious. I see too many college aged kids acting like complete idiots because of them. So, no thank you.

– Emerson

[66217]

I think one should always stay away from them. Nothing good can come from them, so why risk getting addicted.

As for legalizing them, I'm all into it. It's the only way to finish the monstrous organized crime around it.

[NT1440]

i personally just quit smoking weed (i was deffinatly a regular user) for my girlfriend and to get a job.

[Andrew Henry]

Personally, I don't really care what drugs people do, it's their choice honestly. As long as by them doing drugs it doesn't affect me or my family. I know a lot of people who do "drugs" responsibly and if they are capable of that, more power to them!

[Rodimus Prime]

wow people seem to think drug use in college dorm is huge.

I was in the dorms a few years ago and lived in them for 3 years.

During that time I knew of a few who did weed but even then it was a very small number. Like was are taking less than 5% more like maybe 1% of the people in the dorms did them. We talk about the different rather crazy things people did to cover up the weed smoke but even then it was only one or 2 rooms a year. The best is the person who on the 2nd floor built a duct work system to vent the smoke under the RA window and away from the building they would not getting the attention of others from the smell. Mix that with the common wind direction very effective. (we are still working on the 2nd floor duct work system but it was impressive)

Other wise I knew of a few other rooms but it work out to be less a lot less than 5% and really close to 1% of the people live there.

As for the hard drugs I did not know of any one actively using them or even heard about it.

So really some people think a few means most. When really you start to brake it down and really look at it the number drops to more like the ones I gave.

[cycocelica]

so i just finished my first year at college. (united states... california)

living in the dorms i was obviously exposed to a great deal of drugs... pretty much almost anything you can image i've seen/delt with. (obviously i havent seen or delt with all... i'm just saying ive seen alot)

Where did you go to school? Pepperdine? Because this is definitely not common in college dorm rooms. At all.

[iJohnHenry]

i personally just quit smoking weed (i was deffinatly a regular user) for my girlfriend and to get a job.

AH HA!!! That is the reason governments hate the thought of weed. They want everyone in the great pyramid working, not tuned in and dropped out. ;)

Good for you, but I fail to see how the odd joint on a week-end, not driving, can cause any harm. :p

[KingYaba]

Good for you, but I fail to see how the odd joint on a week-end, not driving, can cause any harm. :p

I thought smoke was bad for the environment. But I agree with your point. No it's not a problem. Should be treated the same as alcohol*. Step in that car while intoxicated and I have a problem.

*There is a problem, though that I have not seen addressed. I'll start another thread sometime.

[SamIchi]

I thought smoke was bad for the environment. But I agree with your point. No it's not a problem. Should be treated the same as alcohol*. Step in that car while intoxicated and I have a problem.

*There is a problem, though that I have not seen addressed. I'll start another thread sometime.

While I agree that you shouldn't drive while under any influence. Weed is not nearly as debilitating as alcohol.

[wonga1127]

While I agree that you shouldn't drive while under any influence. Weed is not nearly as debilitating as alcohol.

I know this is pure flame-bait, but I agree. I've seen numerous people do it, and yes, while I was sober, and they drive fine, not perfect, but not driving over cats and road signs. If its good enough for the cops, its good enough for me.

and a side note: i believe every drug from absinthe to peyote should be legal, with restrictions on age (16), driving (never, just to be on the safe side), and where (private please, or keep it quiet at least).

[Mord]

I know this is pure flame-bait, but I agree. I've seen numerous people do it, and yes, while I was sober, and they drive fine, not perfect, but not driving over cats and road signs. If its good enough for the cops, its good enough for me.

and a side note: i believe every drug from absinthe to peyote should be legal, with restrictions on age (16), driving (never, just to be on the safe side), and where (private please, or keep it quiet at least).

Do you mean just natural psychedelics or every drug full stop?

I don't see why peyote should be legal if mescaline is not, pure mescaline is safer and generally better for you than eating a cactus, wormwood is poisonous and generally a bit pants compared with other psychedelics.

The only reason the legal psychedelics are legal is that they're generally not worth it, slavia is a 30 minute nightmare, peyote is too difficult to come by to be a popular recreational drug and LSA (morning glory seeds) is like a less fun more nauseous version of LSD. If psychedelics were to be legalised the safer less horrific ones should be first, research chemical grade Mescaline, LSD and psilocybin (possibly psilocetin) possibly even some of the PiHKAL chemicals if their safety profile is researched.

When it comes down to it the negative effects of tripping your tits off are about the same whether something is natural or not. You can get flashbacks from *anything* psychedelic. More often than not natural alternatives inflict horrific nausea if you're lucky or are downright poisonous if you're not.

I wouldn't drive under the influence of anything psychoactive. Most people can drive fine while tripping if they try but that doesn't make it a good idea.

[wonga1127]

Do you mean just natural psychedelics or every drug full stop?

I mean every drug full stop. Adults should be allowed in a free society to take any substance they want to but only if they cause no harm to anyone else.

[Dagless]

I mean every drug full stop. Adults should be allowed in a free society to take any substance they want to but only if they cause no harm to anyone else.

So then it will never happen.

I've seen pregnant girls taking drugs, people stealing off families to fund habits, being a nuisance and dangerous whilst on drugs. Drugs are as equally harmful to the people around users.

[wonga1127]

So then it will never happen.

I've seen pregnant girls taking drugs, people stealing off families to fund habits, being a nuisance and dangerous whilst on drugs. Drugs are as equally harmful to the people around users.

So because a few dumb people make some bad decisions no one can use them at all? Why not help those pregnant girls instead of sending them to jail for their drug problems, why not make drugs legal so prices go down and people are less motivated to steal things to get drug money? Prohibition doesn't work, it won't ever work, lets stop wasting our time and money.

So people on drugs are a nuisance, sure, I agree, drunk people are some of the most belligerent and obnoxious people I've ever met, but no where in the bill of rights does it say that i have a right to not be nuisanced. Sure sometimes they get a little dangerous, but aggressive drivers are dangerous too, and no ones saying that cars should be illegal because a few traffic accidents happen.

[Mord]

I mean every drug full stop. Adults should be allowed in a free society to take any substance they want to but only if they cause no harm to anyone else.

mill's no harm principle is fatally flawed, *every* action has a negative consequence for at least someone if not everyone, if the unskilled population of the planet were ravaged by epidemic meth addiction what would the world come to?!

The psychopathic twuntish side of my personality does however see such drugs as an evolutionary aid, to cull the dim susceptible.

I am perhaps a little jaded.

[Don't panic]

the only drug i occasionally use is alcohol.
even that is in moderation.
i think all other drugs should be treated like alcohol, cigarettes or other 'pharmacy' drugs: regulated but basically legal.
there would always be a black market for them, and abusers, but overall the situations would be likely better and the crime associated to it much more limited.

[skunk]

I am perhaps a little jaded.You haven't been doing jade again, have you?

[iJon]

Humans have been using mind alternating substances since the beginning of time and will continue to use them for as long as we are on this planet. Drugs will not go away. All we can do is educate the public on which drugs are safer than others and which ones can have adverse affects if misused.

Good parenting and a little knowledge can go a long ways. There will always be people who fall off the deep end with drugs. What we must look it is why these people fell off the deep end. I've had many friends abuse drugs and die off drugs. When you trace the steps back many things lead back to bad family situations or parents that are in denial that their child could even get involved in such a thing.

Whenever I watch Intervention on A&E I see a common correlation between early childhood problems and extensive drug use later on in life.

jon

[ZiggyPastorius]

So then it will never happen.

I've seen pregnant girls taking drugs, people stealing off families to fund habits, being a nuisance and dangerous whilst on drugs. Drugs are as equally harmful to the people around users.

None of those things are the use of the drug harming you.

Stealing is a crime, drugs or no. Punish for the crime.

Being a nuisance is not a crime...being "Dangerous," (I assume you mean hitting things/breaking things/people) is a crime (if it fits that), and should be punished as the crime, not as drugs. Pregnant women, eh..it's a weirder issue. If we put prescriptions on these drugs, obviously make being pregnant a recommendation for not taking them...but it's like the legal medications you see on TV where they say like, "do not take if pregnant, have heart problems..." et cetera. Do you think no pregnant women are taking that drug? Think again, this is not a problem alone to illegal drugs.

[iJohnHenry]

You haven't been doing jade again, have you?

I thought he was looking somewhat green around the gills.

[skunk]

I thought he was looking somewhat green around the gills.I think you'll find most goddesses are of a female persuasion.