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MacBytes
Dec 6, 2003, 01:23 PM
Category: Apple Services
Link: Banned From iTMS for 'Ebay-ing' iTunes Gift Certificates (http://bannedfromitms.blogspot.com/)

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)

Approved by arn

tazo
Dec 6, 2003, 01:54 PM
I think this kid is omitting something from his story -- it sounds too fishy to be true.

LethalWolfe
Dec 6, 2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by tazo
I think this kid is omitting something from his story -- it sounds too fishy to be true.

What? It's on the internet, it must be true!

:p


Lethal

Sun Baked
Dec 6, 2003, 02:13 PM
Extremely funny if this was the idiot that stopped by here trying to sell them internationally.

bennetsaysargh
Dec 6, 2003, 02:35 PM
how does a 15 year old have a credit card anyways?

that's what makes it even fishier.

Pipian
Dec 6, 2003, 02:54 PM
Nope, I havn't tried to sell them on here, and My Story is True, and is what happened!

Pipian
Dec 6, 2003, 02:58 PM
Oh, and I didn't resell them.. Read my Blog, I updated

ITR 81
Dec 6, 2003, 03:08 PM
15 with a CC. I hope you know your not suppose to resale cert. to anyone?

Also if your young user and spend crazy amount in certain amount of time your CC company can and will freeze your account. If your account is frozen then most companies assume the card is stolen or over it's limit. So they blacklist it until the CC is cleared. I had similar issue with Amazon and Mastercard...but then again I'm not 15 either.

Pipian
Dec 6, 2003, 03:11 PM
I didn't resell them, Read the new entry.

Sun Baked
Dec 6, 2003, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by Pipian
I didn't resell them, Read the new entry. Then why does the blog say?While on eBay about a week ago (Nov. 30th) I noticed that there were iTunes Music Store Gift Certificates for sale on ebay getting bids, of upwards of their normal costs on iTunes, so I decided to Start selling some to make enough money for a new iPod. Well, I do so, and I sell a bunch of them, until I find out that Apple Has Banned me from the iTunes Music Store, Deactivating my account, and Not Letting me use my credit card (Blacklisting it) for anything on the Apple StoreWhen you buy something and sell it to someone else, for profit or not -- that's reselling it.

If you buy it and give it to someone -- that's a gift.

Kenny Pollock
Dec 6, 2003, 03:49 PM
I'm not on this kid's side, but I'm 13 and I have a credit card. It's called Visa Buxxx, for ages 13 and over I believe, parents and kids can put in money, and parents can put on a withdrawl limit. It acts like a real card.

I think it was a stupid thing to do, even for an iPod. I'm 13 and paid for my 15 GB iPod myself by doing database work for a small company for about a week. It's not hard to do.

Here in Florida, when I'm 14, I can legally get a job at Publix as a bag boy for $7/hour.. It's legal, and I stay out of trouble, especially with Apple.

Phatpat
Dec 6, 2003, 03:51 PM
I completely understand why Apple did it and support them for it

Pipian
Dec 6, 2003, 04:01 PM
Reselling is selling something you bought, As I did not have it, and sent directly to the other person as a Certificate, it's not reselling

Kenny Pollock
Dec 6, 2003, 04:05 PM
reˇsell __ _P___Pronunciation Key__(rsl)
tr.v. reˇsold, (-sld) reˇsellˇing, reˇsells
To sell again.

You can't send someone a gift certificate without purchasing it.

Let's say we go along with your "I'm not a reseller" theory.. That means you don't have it and didn't plan on sending the customers what they wanted- fraud.

So, you're either in trouble for fraud or being a reseller. Hahahaha, got ya there.

D0ct0rteeth
Dec 6, 2003, 04:05 PM
How many did you buy, dude?

I have done a few for people but I wasn't making a profit.. just helpin a brother out who was in the military and so on.

Im sorry you got nabbed man.. but you had to have done several hundred dollars worth to get busted.

Just be cool.. find someone at apple and explain the situation to them.. If you come across sincerely sorry and just tell them that you want to be able to listen to the music you have already purchased I assume that will be cool and they will work with ya.

But causing a big scene will just make it worse foir everyone

- Doc

Pipian
Dec 6, 2003, 04:06 PM
No, Because they got it, after it went thru,

Pipian
Dec 6, 2003, 04:07 PM
I'm not trying to make a huge scene or anything, Oh, and thanks for the Semi-support, Any Advice from anyone? I'm not planning on sellign anymore if I ever get my account back, I just want to buy my own music again.

Kenny Pollock
Dec 6, 2003, 04:09 PM
Make a new account, new cc.
Or, you can buy some gift certificates via eBay for your new account, rofl.

Sun Baked
Dec 6, 2003, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by Pipian
Reselling is selling something you bought, As I did not have it, and sent directly to the other person as a Certificate, it's not reselling You'd do a good job of getting yourself shot if you ever go into the military acting as your own lawyer.

Since you never "bought" a single certificate, how by chance did you get these certificates to send directly to the people you sold them to.

You either:

1. Purchased a certificate for delivery to a individual.

2. Procured stolen certificates.

3. Hacked the iTMS for "free" gift certificates.

4. Fraudulently obtained iTMS gift certificates.

5. Were running an eBay scam.

Since you never purchased (aka, bought) a single gift certificate you sold -- and have admitted this in a public forum -- I hope the FBI investigation for this fraud lands your ass in jail.

Thanks for telling us you never purchased a single gift certificate you sold to the suckers on eBay.

Pipian
Dec 6, 2003, 04:18 PM
No, I did purchase them, I bought them, and sent it to the winners after the bid was made

Kenny Pollock
Dec 6, 2003, 04:20 PM
THAT IS RESELLING, GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD.

YOU BOUGHT, YOU SOLD.

Pipian
Dec 6, 2003, 04:20 PM
I Bought the Certificates for the people, but didn't buy them for the people until the auction was over and payment sent, I wasn't scamming anyone

Pipian
Dec 6, 2003, 04:21 PM
I sent directly to them, the certificates didn't go from me to them, they were sent directly from iTMS to them

Kenny Pollock
Dec 6, 2003, 04:22 PM
Gift Certificates..
One party buys them, one party recieves them for free, as a gift.

What you're doing is reselling, and it's illegal.

TomSmithMacEd
Dec 6, 2003, 04:22 PM
I was thinking about doing this myself. Easy way to make money.

Pipian
Dec 6, 2003, 04:24 PM
^^^ Better put on the Flame Retardant suit

arn
Dec 6, 2003, 04:30 PM
Um...

I see why there's an argument.

Gift Certificates are, by their nature, sent to someone else. Effectively, he's "selling" them to the recipients.

regardless, he's selling them to people who otherwise can't access the iTunes Music Store (outside the US)... which is why I would guess he got into trouble with Apple.

arn

Fender2112
Dec 6, 2003, 06:40 PM
Pipian,

While your logic may seem reasonable, what you did is sometimes refered to as "drop shipping". The selling agent, in this case you, advertise a product for sale or auction. When the order is confirmed, you, the selling agent, are billed and the product is shipped directly from the manufacturer or distribution center.

There are many internet based stores that function this way. It eliminates the need for a business to maintain inventory.

While anyone can argue the technicality of the EULA, the spirit or intent is pretty clear. Apple doesn't want the songs to be exported from the US in any way, shape or form. The issue has to do with record companies in other parts of the world and how the artists license their music. I think there is a thread on MacRumors that talks more about.

As for your account delima, get another card and set up another iTunes account. But use it more wisely. Don't sweat it and use this as a learning experience. You're only 15 and there WILL be worse situations that you will be in... marriage comes to mind. :)

Pipian
Dec 6, 2003, 06:58 PM
Thanks for Seeing it Both ways! ^^^ It could always have been worse!

Nermal
Dec 6, 2003, 07:31 PM
I don't see why everyone is arguing about reselling the certificates. What's wrong with buying a certificate and onselling it? :confused:

Sun Baked
Dec 6, 2003, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by Nermal
I don't see why everyone is arguing about reselling the certificates. What's wrong with buying a certificate and onselling it? :confused: But the kid said he never resold anything... :rolleyes:

But if Apple doesn't like the reselling, especially internationally. Few would have a problem with Apple blacklisting people.

We all see that all Apple is doing is adhering to their contracts with the music companies and not selling the songs internationally and/or allowing them to be sold in that manner until the interational store is finalized.

Of course if you're making a big "profit" reselling enough of them, it's not Apple or our opinion you have to worry about.

It's the IRS...

You made enough money to but a top of the line G5 through iTMS resales and you claimed nothing on your taxes. :eek:

Nermal
Dec 6, 2003, 07:53 PM
Wouldn't you pay tax when you buy the certificates? And when you buy the new G5?

Sun Baked
Dec 6, 2003, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by Nermal
Wouldn't you pay tax when you buy the certificates? And when you buy the new G5? That be sales tax, which you state is looking at on the sale of items.

If you have a iTMS lemonade stand, and ring up $20k in sales and a $4k in profit and piss somebody off they may take a look at your fathers tax return (aka his claim of you as a tax deduction) and your own tax return to see if it was properly handled.

Quite a thin line here between a hobby here and a for profit business.

Of course the biggest problem with a lot of these is the checks/payments are made directly to the individual.

So the IRS would see $20k flowing directly into your account and ask you to pay taxes on that amount.

You have to spend money to prove that you didn't make $20k profit, but actually cleared much less -- if you keep no records, or didn't pay with a credit card. :eek:

Especially if you never resold anything, it's ALL profit.

---

And no the IRS wouldn't generally do anything unless the story was really BIG, or somebody was really stupid.

D0ct0rteeth
Dec 6, 2003, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by Fender2112
... You're only 15 and there WILL be worse situations that you will be in... marriage comes to mind. :)

Best. Post. Ever... :)

Still laughing...

- Doc

Nermal
Dec 6, 2003, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by Sun Baked
That be sales tax, which you state is looking at on the sale of items.

etc.

Ah, I see what you're getting at now. I never thought of that. It seems the American tax system has similarities to the system over here in NZ, but it has its differences too.

Fender2112
Dec 6, 2003, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Sun Baked
.. Of course if you're making a big "profit" reselling enough of them, it's not Apple or our opinion you have to worry about.

It's the IRS...

You made enough money to but a top of the line G5 through iTMS resales and you claimed nothing on your taxes. :eek:

I wan't going to open that can of worms. I didn't want to scare the kid to death or cause him to have nightmares about going to jail for tax fraud and meeting his new roommate "Bubba".

Once you crosss the line form hobby to "for profit", it's a whole different ball game.

Fender2112
Dec 6, 2003, 09:49 PM
Now that I think about it, I'm not sure which is worse. Marrriage or "Bubba".:eek:

chewbaccapits
Dec 6, 2003, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by Pipian
I'm not trying to make a huge scene or anything...



*Banned From iTMS- My Story

*http://bannedfromitms.blogspot.com/


You have a freaken blog entitled Banned From iTMS- My Story(200pt. no less).... :rolleyes: ....If that isn't a huge scene, I don't know what is...:confused:

Plastic Chicken
Dec 6, 2003, 10:58 PM
I just tried to find such an item on eBay, and couldn't...

Hitouri Ookami
Jun 19, 2004, 10:13 PM
Hey If I can go off topic for a bit... Does anyone know any ways for a twelve-year-old kid to make money? I am looking to buy a computer for a lot of personal reasons, but I have not found anyways to make enough money for about five years... :(

Pipian
Jun 19, 2004, 10:19 PM
Ask your parents if you can work in their office or something, and no, it wasn't a G5, It was 100$ for a G4

iMeowbot
Jun 19, 2004, 10:37 PM
I don't see why everyone is arguing about reselling the certificates. What's wrong with buying a certificate and onselling it? :confused:

See the Apple Store's Sales and Refunds Policy (https://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/salespolicies.html) (iTMS gift certificates are sold though it) for why they they would shut off this person.

SALES TO END USERS ONLY
The Apple Store sells and ships products to end user customers only.
Selling used equipment here and there is a normal thing that isn't going to get anyone into trouble, but making a business of selling new goods bought from the Apple Store is something they don't allow (they have dealer/reseller programs for people who want to do that).

[edit (addition)]
This does specifically apply to the Apple Store under its iTMS guise too, policy here (http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/legal/policies.html).
SALES TO END USERS ONLY
The iTunes Music Store sells products to end user customers only.

Sun Baked
Jun 19, 2004, 10:46 PM
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2338

Brought back by a scheming pre-teen wanting to know how to scam some extra bucks.

NuPowerbook
Jun 19, 2004, 11:10 PM
How the hell do you make money by selling a gift cert? If he buys it after the auction for the winning bid, isn't he making 0 profit?