PDA

View Full Version : Storage Solutions for our OUT-OF-CONTROL iTunes Libraries




Pages : 1 2 [3] 4

LERsince1991
Feb 22, 2009, 04:31 AM
erm... I just got home from my best mates 18th :o
lol, funny thing is, it made sense when I read it back last night



starcat
Feb 22, 2009, 05:43 AM
Taking a break from editing, I whipped together how my house is set up.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3391/3278979781_4186cb08da_o.jpg

Data has built-in redundancy between the two Drobos. I have a syncing program sync new stuff from the iMac's Drobo to the MacBook's Drobo (as well as the 2TB MyBook hooked up to the bedroom's AppleTV), so if one dies, I have a backup. MacBook replaces AppleTV in the Home Theater because I now have 1080P movies I need to play into that TV. Mac Pro has 4TB inside for editing, photos, documents, personal stuff, etc. with plans for a 3rd Drobo added to that for backup. All media machines are hardwired through Airport Extreme, while my bedroom AppleTV and MacBook Pro feed off the wireless. All in all it's a great solution. I can watching anything from anywhere, and everything stays automatically up to date.
You forgot to say where did you get those 1080p movies you are playing on the MBP?!

annapolisjohn
Feb 22, 2009, 09:26 AM
Has anyone tried Lace networked drives? They have 2 years of warranty, not much but are they stable and reliable drives?

Last year I purchased a 1TB LaCie NAS Mini. It works. But know this, it is a DOS drive at heart. I believe it runs Linux. It supports SMB, AFP and HTTP access. The AFP (Apple File) server access will disappear when there is a power failure and has to be reset using the very very slow and antique NAS setup utility. Once setup and running it seems to be OK but I cannot use it as the media server storage device I needed.:mad:

AJ

DAMAC3
Feb 24, 2009, 01:03 PM
I'm considering buying a DROBO or some other NAS device with RAID or RAID-like redundancy. Currently I have a 1TB external drive filled with movies, TV, music, software, etc. I have a MBA (transitioning from a desktop PC that I am selling shortly) and will soon have an AEBS (to work with my current wireless G router). I also have an old PC laying around that I could turn into a fileserver with RAID 5 or something similar instead of the DROBO.

My questions....

If I purchase ATV, I have to have a computer serving the media to it? The DROBO won't do it alone? Does the DROBO have any serving capabilities, or is it basically a big external drive?

If I have to have the DROBO connected through (or networked with and shared through) a Mini or some other computer, I don't see why I wouldn't just upgrade this old PC I have to be a RAID/server box instead (besides the simplicity and convenience factors). It would be cheaper and more functional overall.

I've read through much of this thread. I just want to make sure I know what I think I know. You know? :D

fivepoint
Feb 24, 2009, 01:22 PM
If I purchase ATV, I have to have a computer serving the media to it? The DROBO won't do it alone? Does the DROBO have any serving capabilities, or is it basically a big external drive?

Yes, you have to have a computer running iTunes to serve the data to the AppleTV (except for the content actually synced to the device itself) The Drobo does not have any 'serving capabilities'... it is, like you said, basically just a big hard drive.



If I have to have the DROBO connected through (or networked with and shared through) a Mini or some other computer, I don't see why I wouldn't just upgrade this old PC I have to be a RAID/server box instead (besides the simplicity and convenience factors). It would be cheaper and more functional overall.

That would certainly be one option... and if you're skilled in that regard, possibly a better one. It's harder to do, takes longer, takes up more space, etc. but if you've got the skills, you could save a lot of money that way.



I've read through much of this thread. I just want to make sure I know what I think I know. You know? :D

I'd also caution you to have at LEAST one copy of everything on your iTunes drive. The only thing worse than losing GBs of data to hard drive failure, power surge, etc. is losing TBs of data to hard drive failure, power surge, etc. Know what I mean? An off-site back up is even better.

I think a lot of people here might be making the mistake of housing all of their data on one Drobo and thinking their safe from data loss. While the Drobo SHOULD protect against individual hard drive failure (one at a time), It can't protect against 2 drives failing, or a power surge which takes out everything in the device, or anything else that could happen like data corruption, etc.

It's always wise to have at least two physical devices with cloned data on them, in my opinion.

cantthinkofone
Feb 24, 2009, 01:43 PM
http://michaeljordanphotography.com/images/mr/setup.jpg



Can i come live with you? :D

rhett7660
Feb 24, 2009, 01:44 PM
It's always wise to have at least two physical devices with cloned data on them, in my opinion.


I couldn't agree more. I would take it one step further and have your information off site. Kind of pain, but it is so worth it.

prostuff1
Feb 24, 2009, 04:47 PM
I'm considering buying a DROBO or some other NAS device with RAID or RAID-like redundancy. Currently I have a 1TB external drive filled with movies, TV, music, software, etc. I have a MBA (transitioning from a desktop PC that I am selling shortly) and will soon have an AEBS (to work with my current wireless G router). I also have an old PC laying around that I could turn into a fileserver with RAID 5 or something similar instead of the DROBO.

My questions....

If I purchase ATV, I have to have a computer serving the media to it? The DROBO won't do it alone? Does the DROBO have any serving capabilities, or is it basically a big external drive?

If I have to have the DROBO connected through (or networked with and shared through) a Mini or some other computer, I don't see why I wouldn't just upgrade this old PC I have to be a RAID/server box instead (besides the simplicity and convenience factors). It would be cheaper and more functional overall.

I've read through much of this thread. I just want to make sure I know what I think I know. You know? :D

If you want to reuse the old PC take a look at unRAID (http://lime-technology.com/). I have been using it for a while now and it is working great for me. Read up on their page and the wiki, also feel free to ask some questions on the forums and you should be able to get the answers you are looking for.

unRAID is basically a RAID5 with out the striping and it uses a parity disk (has to be the largest disk in the system) to give you the data protection.

Atrael
Feb 27, 2009, 01:39 PM
Man this is a long thread. A question for the masses. I have an older Dell Precision M60 1.7Ghz 2 GB RAM running as the iTunes server across a network to a Drobo with DroboShare to make it a NAS. Currently I have my movies split between two computers, one has all of the "Grown Up" movies loaded into it's iTunes, the other laptop has the "Kids" movies loaded. This way one library shows up as "My Movies" and the other as "Shared Movies". This keeps the kids from picking something that they shouldn't watch until I can use MetaX to put in MPAA ratings on all the files (man I wish iTunes would let me do that). Anyway I have about 580 "Grown Up" movies and I wanted to load the kids movies (about 120) onto the same laptop. Mostly because I'm traveling more and I need to take the one laptop with me. However I'm noticing a huge lag in iTunes on that Dell laptop. Do very large libraries really cause it to slow down that much? Are there any tips or tricks to making it run a bit smoother?

Thanks!

MagnusVonMagnum
Feb 28, 2009, 03:23 AM
Is anyone else still waiting for the WD20EADS (Caviar Green 2TB) drive to be in stock for a reasonable price? I've been waiting a month now for someone that has it for $265 or less to get it back in stock and instead, the price just keeps climbing (Buy.com doesn't even have them in stock and have still raised it well over the MSRP of $300 to $334.99). When New Egg has them in stock, they want MSRP or better. It's getting ridiculous. Restock times are listed well into April at most stores now. I guess the demand for this drive is right up there with the Nintendo Wii the first year.

It's ironic given how high the dollar is per GB for this drive. Seagate 1.5TB drives are in the $140 range. You could get two and RAID them for 3TB for less than one stinking 5600 RPM green drive from WD. The only thing stopping me is that I've read of endless problems with these Seagate drives, either unreliability issues or firmware "freeze" issues and I've seen no indication that Seagate is doing anything about the problem (maybe that's why they're so cheap? No one wants them?)

Regardless, I need a storage solution NOW for my out of control iTunes library. I just recently converted all 250+ DVDs I have to Apple TV compatible M4V (MP4) .H264 and along with my 5500 songs (over 400 CDs), I need more space and I'm afraid 1TB will fill up too quickly. The only thing I can think of is to get two 1TB internals for my PowerMac and RAID 0 them and get a 2nd external Lacie or WD Mybook 2TB (also Raid 0 1TB drives) as a backup. 4 drives = 2x as likely to fail as a single 2TB drive (well...maybe depending on manufacturing issues, etc.) and not as compact, but maybe more versatile to have an external copy of the data (easily plugged into my MBP if there's an issue with the PowerMac).

I dunno. What do you think? Are two 1TB drives with Raid 0 the better option right now? Certainly, I would imagine it could get higher transfer rates than a single 2TB drive, particularly if I got two Raptors for the internal Satas for the PowerMac (although I would think slower, cooler running drives would be more reliable in the long run and high speed transfers don't mean a thing except to back them up and that would be limited to FW400 rates if I have to go external for the backup). Maybe realiability would be a bit worse (that's what the backup is for, though), but given the availability issue coupled with the ridiculously high prices right now for the drive when you CAN find it, I might not have many options.

I need to get these DVDs off my laptop external backup/expansion drive so I can use that space for transferring my VHS and Laserdiscs to the computer with my new Canopus/TBC/Panasonic 1980 Pro VCR editing system. I'm down to less than 90GB on my MBP's internal Sata already and very little space left on my other two computers to store the final MP4 videos regardless (I guess I could dump them onto DVD-R discs for now, though).

Advance The Man
Feb 28, 2009, 05:21 AM
I set up my new Western Digital MyBook II 2 TB last night. I wasn't sure if I set up RAID 1 that it wouldn't screw things up with iTunes. Suppose I was thinking, which hard drive of the 1 TB's would it read off of. Not really tech savvy, but figured it must work some how. It did. I'm assuming folks here don't like the MyBook, b/c I don't see much reference to them. I bought it b/c my 500GB MyBook has been flawless, but not having it backed up scared me.

So, now I guess if I have a failure with one of the TB hard drives, I simply replace it? Once replaced, how does the new hard drive get the duplicate info from the original hard drive? The whole RAID concept is new to me!

rspeaker
Feb 28, 2009, 02:46 PM
Is anyone else still waiting for the WD20EADS (Caviar Green 2TB) drive to be in stock for a reasonable price? I've been waiting a month now for someone that has it for $265 or less to get it back in stock and instead, the price just keeps climbing (Buy.com doesn't even have them in stock and have still raised it well over the MSRP of $300 to $334.99). When New Egg has them in stock, they want MSRP or better. It's getting ridiculous. Restock times are listed well into April at most stores now. I guess the demand for this drive is right up there with the Nintendo Wii the first year.

It's ironic given how high the dollar is per GB for this drive. Seagate 1.5TB drives are in the $140 range. You could get two and RAID them for 3TB for less than one stinking 5600 RPM green drive from WD. The only thing stopping me is that I've read of endless problems with these Seagate drives, either unreliability issues or firmware "freeze" issues and I've seen no indication that Seagate is doing anything about the problem (maybe that's why they're so cheap? No one wants them?)

Regardless, I need a storage solution NOW for my out of control iTunes library. I just recently converted all 250+ DVDs I have to Apple TV compatible M4V (MP4) .H264 and along with my 5500 songs (over 400 CDs), I need more space and I'm afraid 1TB will fill up too quickly. The only thing I can think of is to get two 1TB internals for my PowerMac and RAID 0 them and get a 2nd external Lacie or WD Mybook 2TB (also Raid 0 1TB drives) as a backup. 4 drives = 2x as likely to fail as a single 2TB drive (well...maybe depending on manufacturing issues, etc.) and not as compact, but maybe more versatile to have an external copy of the data (easily plugged into my MBP if there's an issue with the PowerMac).

I hear you. I've filled two 1TB drives with archives of my DVDs, and the better portion of my iMac's 500GB internal with .m4v's. I need more space, but am waiting for the 2TB internal prices to drop I want an internal solution eventually, and I don't see the point in buying more external drives. Which kinda leaves me at an impasse in the massive project :(

MagnusVonMagnum
Feb 28, 2009, 03:43 PM
I hear you. I've filled two 1TB drives with archives of my DVDs, and the better portion of my iMac's 500GB internal with .m4v's. I need more space, but am waiting for the 2TB internal prices to drop I want an internal solution eventually, and I don't see the point in buying more external drives. Which kinda leaves me at an impasse in the massive project :(

I've thought about a drobo (4 drives that give you about 3 drives of space which could mean up to 6TB), but from what I've read, it sounds like the Drobo itself is less reliable than the hard drives it holds and if it goes, ALL your data goes with it, which completely undermines the whole point of the device (unless all you care about is having the equivalent of a big Raid5 device). Having a completely separate backup is much safer (only safer yet is to have yet another backup off site, which I do for really important things that can't be replaced like photo albums and home movies).

Network attached options seem very limited since my Apple TV units cannot use them except possibly the new HP Media Servers since they supposedly can run the regular Windows version of iTunes directly, making them the equivlent of setting up small mini-tower PC to use as a NAS. But that's still running a Windows variation 24/7, which I don't trust. So I keep using this PowerMac as a combined NAS/Internet station and frankly, it does as well as any NAS could hope too plus gives me a secure shopping/banking center that can also run Office 2004 smoothly, etc. Leopard is just fine on it with the ATI 9800 Pro. I'm running a 22" 1680x1050 resolution monitor and Leopard and it's fine (feels smoother on this monitor than 1024x768 on the old 19" CRT and translucent effects are much more noticeable). It's not exactly "small" like some NAS units, but it fits in the alcove this desk has without issue and takes up no space on top (who needs an iMac?) and can fit potentially up to 4 or 5 internal drives plus a 22x DVD-RW Lightscribe drive and a nice front panel Firewire/USB 2.0/Audio hub where the Zip drive used to be. I like it. The only thing I worry about adding MORE drives is the power supply so I'd prefer two 2TB internal drives instead of adding a 2nd Sata card and more drives. Of course external options abound. I could replace the cheap USB 2.0 card with a FW800/USB2.0 card I found that will work with it and that would still leave my last usable PCI slot open for something else (there are FW800 only cards as well). There's also several E-Sata PCI cards that will work with it along with a Sonnet Sata 2 card that has 4 internal Sata ports (a little pricey at $180 or more, though). Basically,

I guess I'm saying a used PowerMac (I've seen dual 553 G4s go for as little as $50 on eBay sometimes which leaves plenty of cash for a few upgrades) doesn't make a bad NAS and secondary computer (heck I use it MORE than my MBP or PC since it's on 24/7, it's ultra convenient to just turn on the monitor and there's Firefox ready to go and let's face it, most of us use the Internet more than anything else these days for whatever application). I could put together a server with 2TB of internal storage using a cheap used G4 for half the price of a Mac Mini without the added storage (and all its storage would have to be external) so I think there's plenty of uses for these old machines despite what some would say about them. With TwonkeyMedia, Squeeze Center and/or iTunes, it makes a great whole house media server. It's too bad XBMC doesn't run directly on it, but my Apple TV running it can access it as a network share. I've converted most of my media to M4V anyway (converting Macross The Movie anime from VHS right now to M4v using a Canopus + TBC + used Pro Panasonic VCR (model 1980). I still have plenty of VHS and laserdiscs to convert over and a few more photo albums to scan in, but when I'm done ALL my media will be available on AppleTV around the house and can be controlled from my iPod Touch (or an iPhone). I've got Remote Buddy installed as well which lets me use the iPod Touch as a Front Row remote (PowerMac has no IR port, although you could add one via USB) and I can even view my Logitech 9000 web camera from the iPod Touch with it. I've got Klipsch 2.1 THX speakers and that 22" monitor connected to it so it makes for a nice den media viewing/listening location as well (two AppleTV and an Airport Express unit allow music and/or video access around the house from one media library stored on the PowerMac). I've got iTunes installed on my PC and MBP as well as an interim backup in case the PowerMac fails until I can replace it (the PC also has a backup of my music library) and "Signal" is on both my Macs and PC for iPod Touch access (well that was pre "Remote" which works on both as well with iTunes, although Signal has a better on-the-fly playlist mode).


I just need more Hard Drive space to keep going.

Donar
Feb 28, 2009, 04:06 PM
I set up my new Western Digital MyBook II 2 TB last night. ... I'm assuming folks here don't like the MyBook, b/c I don't see much reference to them.
I have a 2 Terabyte Western Digital MyBook (Studio) too, but in Raid 0 configuration. Buying this drive was an easy way to expand my Synology NAS (1TB Raid1) over eSata with about 1,8TB of space. Maybe people do not talk about the 2TB MyBooks too much because they are afraid of Raid0 configurations and do not want to "waste" 50% of capacity in Raid1 configuration.

I think i will get myself at some moment in time a drobo to back up the Synology + WD 2TB MyBook and other data. But before this i need money for a drobo and enough 2TB drives...

JPDeckers
Mar 2, 2009, 02:26 AM
Seagate 1.5TB drives are in the $140 range. You could get two and RAID them for 3TB for less than one stinking 5600 RPM green drive from WD. The only thing stopping me is that I've read of endless problems with these Seagate drives, either unreliability issues or firmware "freeze" issues and I've seen no indication that Seagate is doing anything about the problem (maybe that's why they're so cheap? No one wants them?)

Well, I have 5 of them in my QNAP 509, and yes, the initial problems were a hassle, but I've put the new firmware on them, and didn;t have any problems since. Yes, it sucks having to flash your HDDs, and yes, this shouldn't have happened, but IMHO they fixed it and are (again) an alternative.

rspeaker
Mar 2, 2009, 09:00 AM
[QUOTE=MagnusVonMagnum;7184151}I guess I'm saying a used PowerMac (I've seen dual 553 G4s go for as little as $50 on eBay sometimes which leaves plenty of cash for a few upgrades) doesn't make a bad NAS and secondary computer (heck I use it MORE than my MBP or PC since it's on 24/7, it's ultra convenient to just turn on the monitor and there's Firefox ready to go and let's face it, most of us use the Internet more than anything else these days for whatever application). I could put together a server with 2TB of internal storage using a cheap used G4 for half the price of a Mac Mini without the added storage (and all its storage would have to be external) so I think there's plenty of uses for these old machines despite what some would say about them. With TwonkeyMedia, Squeeze Center and/or iTunes, it makes a great whole house media server. It's too bad XBMC doesn't run directly on it, but my Apple TV running it can access it as a network share. I've converted most of my media to M4V anyway (converting Macross The Movie anime from VHS right now to M4v using a Canopus + TBC + used Pro Panasonic VCR (model 1980). I still have plenty of VHS and laserdiscs to convert over and a few more photo albums to scan in, but when I'm done ALL my media will be available on AppleTV around the house and can be controlled from my iPod Touch (or an iPhone). I've got Remote Buddy installed as well which lets me use the iPod Touch as a Front Row remote (PowerMac has no IR port, although you could add one via USB) and I can even view my Logitech 9000 web camera from the iPod Touch with it. I've got Klipsch 2.1 THX speakers and that 22" monitor connected to it so it makes for a nice den media viewing/listening location as well (two AppleTV and an Airport Express unit allow music and/or video access around the house from one media library stored on the PowerMac). I've got iTunes installed on my PC and MBP as well as an interim backup in case the PowerMac fails until I can replace it (the PC also has a backup of my music library) and "Signal" is on both my Macs and PC for iPod Touch access (well that was pre "Remote" which works on both as well with iTunes, although Signal has a better on-the-fly playlist mode).


I just need more Hard Drive space to keep going.[/QUOTE]

Ultimately, I am probably going to end up with a Hackintosh. I'd consider an older PowerMac, but I'm not much for updating machines, and if I'm gonna drop money, I want something that's new and fast, with plenty of storage. Also, I'll probably eventually get to Blu-Ray DVDs, which will require Windows to rip and a decent processor to play.

I understand why Apple doesn't offer a mid-range tower... but I still think it's a shame.

MagnusVonMagnum
Mar 3, 2009, 02:17 AM
I fully understand the appeal of a Hackintosh. I'm considering one to replace my tower PC (which I would then move into an arcade cabinet to use as the CPU for a Mame arcade emulator cabinet setup). I'm still not sure I'd want to use it to replace my PowerMac server as I'd imagine I'd have higher-end uses for a newer machine just as I do for my MBP, which I'd rather NOT log in hours on if I don't have to and when it IS on it's doing things like video editing and studio style music recording, not serving AppleTV units their media files (and I don't need that to hiccup because of editing either for that matter). So even if I had/could afford an 8-core Mac Pro, I still don't want to use it as my media server. I've got better things to do with it. Now a cheap PC (say in the $300 range) running Windows Server or even just WindowsXP Home wouldn't make a bad little server, though. Linux would make a great server OS (prefer it over Windows to be on 24/7), except iTunes isn't available for it and Wine doesn't run it very well (not at all the last time I checked on the latest iTunes version).

rspeaker
Mar 3, 2009, 02:49 AM
I fully understand the appeal of a Hackintosh. I'm considering one to replace my tower PC (which I would then move into an arcade cabinet to use as the CPU for a Mame arcade emulator cabinet setup). I'm still not sure I'd want to use it to replace my PowerMac server as I'd imagine I'd have higher-end uses for a newer machine just as I do for my MBP, which I'd rather NOT log in hours on if I don't have to and when it IS on it's doing things like video editing and studio style music recording, not serving AppleTV units their media files (and I don't need that to hiccup because of editing either for that matter). So even if I had/could afford an 8-core Mac Pro, I still don't want to use it as my media server. I've got better things to do with it. Now a cheap PC (say in the $300 range) running Windows Server or even just WindowsXP Home wouldn't make a bad little server, though. Linux would make a great server OS (prefer it over Windows to be on 24/7), except iTunes isn't available for it and Wine doesn't run it very well (not at all the last time I checked on the latest iTunes version).

I see; we're coming at it from different places. In your situation, I totally understand why you'd want to keep the PowerMac as the server. I don't have an AppleTV; my videos play right on my iMac, and that's it. My problem is, having archived my DVDs into Video_TS folders, as well as converted some (all eventually) into .m4v's, I've got two 1TB external drives attached. I don't much care for the external drives; I want everything in one machine.

I'm thinking three or four 2TB WD drives when the price comes down a little. I'm also wondering if archiving the DVDs is a big waste (I'm thinking not, because I can put all my DVDs in storage while still having them readily accessible from two comparatively-small hard drives.)

I agree with you, too; wouldn't make a lot of sense to build a computer just to serve media. I've never worked with Linux before (I'm a pretty casual computer user) but I've always heard great things about it as a server platform.

johnnj
Mar 3, 2009, 04:49 AM
Well, I have 5 of them in my QNAP 509, and yes, the initial problems were a hassle, but I've put the new firmware on them, and didn;t have any problems since. Yes, it sucks having to flash your HDDs, and yes, this shouldn't have happened, but IMHO they fixed it and are (again) an alternative.

I have 5 of them, too. None required the firmware update and have all been working fine out of the box(es).

eleven59
Mar 3, 2009, 11:32 PM
ive been leaning towards a powermac situation for an itunes media server but not sure if i should go with g4 or g5's.... i dont like having a bunch of externals hanging out either.... would have liked to gone with a headless mini as its smaller, but I would still have to use an external, and then would still have to turn both off separately.

MagnusVonMagnum
Mar 4, 2009, 12:23 AM
I have 5 of them, too. None required the firmware update and have all been working fine out of the box(es).

I guess if they've fixed the problems, I will go with the 1.5TB drives. The only question is whether I want to Raid them together for 3TB or if 1.5TB will be enough and use the 2nd to back up the first instead (negating the need for an external backup solution).

ive been leaning towards a powermac situation for an itunes media server but not sure if i should go with g4 or g5's.... i dont like having a bunch of externals hanging out either.... would have liked to gone with a headless mini as its smaller, but I would still have to use an external, and then would still have to turn both off separately.

I guess you'll need to figure out which is the better overall value for the price you can get which model for used and how much power you think you'll need and whether or not that would require a CPU upgrade for the G4 versus a newer G5 used. If it's only a server, a dual 553 G4 can be had for as little as $50 on eBay (I saw one go for $54; I bid $52 and couldn't snipe the last bid in time) and it can be a good server with the addition of a mere Sata card and some hard drives (maybe USB 2.0 card if you want to sync iPods, etc. with it). If you want to do a bit more with it (I surf, shop, bank, etc, on mine all the time), you might want a better video card and a faster CPU. At a certain point, a G5 might be the better value (definitely more upfront, but possibly cheaper than a G4 CPU upgrade).

cantthinkofone
Mar 4, 2009, 10:22 AM
ive been leaning towards a powermac situation for an itunes media server but not sure if i should go with g4 or g5's.... i dont like having a bunch of externals hanging out either.... would have liked to gone with a headless mini as its smaller, but I would still have to use an external, and then would still have to turn both off separately.

Thats what i have. Bought a 800MHz G4 tower for $130 and put a 300GB hdd in it. Should have gone bigger...i've almost filled it after 2 weeks :rolleyes:

prostuff1
Mar 4, 2009, 11:55 AM
I have 2 of the 1.5TB drives in my unRAID server and they are doing just fine. The firmware issues seem to be fixed but the bad buzz that was created by it is still present.

I usually run all my disks (Seagate, WD, Maxtor, etc) through a preclear and heavy use cycle. It might take a while and you do not get to use the drive right away but i feel it is very necessary to check the drives durability. I use a script that was written for my unRaid server but you should be able to get the same results using Disk Utlity and the erase option. Press the security button and select the level of erase you want. The script i have will read the disk and then write zero's to the entire drive up to 20 times. I usually go with 3 cycles to make sure that things are good to go.

NOTE: On a large drive this can take a while. The script i use take almost 8 hours to do one one cycle on a 1.5TB drive.

eleven59
Mar 4, 2009, 04:08 PM
I guess you'll need to figure out which is the better overall value for the price you can get which model for used and how much power you think you'll need and whether or not that would require a CPU upgrade for the G4 versus a newer G5 used. If it's only a server, a dual 553 G4 can be had for as little as $50 on eBay (I saw one go for $54; I bid $52 and couldn't snipe the last bid in time) and it can be a good server with the addition of a mere Sata card and some hard drives (maybe USB 2.0 card if you want to sync iPods, etc. with it). If you want to do a bit more with it (I surf, shop, bank, etc, on mine all the time), you might want a better video card and a faster CPU. At a certain point, a G5 might be the better value (definitely more upfront, but possibly cheaper than a G4 CPU upgrade).

I had been looking at the G4's, the ones that can run leopard, then started to think that the G5's have "newer" tech and should in theory last a little longer. Also they are already using SATA's, so I figured the power supply should be able to handle a few more HD's and the bus speed(?) would also be SATA ready.. But you are right, up front they are more than the G4's but as they are "newer" they might cost less to upgrade the little things...

rhett7660
Mar 4, 2009, 04:35 PM
I have 2 of the 1.5TB drives in my unRAID server and they are doing just fine. The firmware issues seem to be fixed but the bad buzz that was created by it is still present.

I usually run all my disks (Seagate, WD, Maxtor, etc) through a preclear and heavy use cycle. It might take a while and you do not get to use the drive right away but i feel it is very necessary to check the drives durability. I use a script that was written for my unRaid server but you should be able to get the same results using Disk Utlity and the erase option. Press the security button and select the level of erase you want. The script i have will read the disk and then write zero's to the entire drive up to 20 times. I usually go with 3 cycles to make sure that things are good to go.

NOTE: On a large drive this can take a while. The script i use take almost 8 hours to do one one cycle on a 1.5TB drive.

Would that be this unraid server: http://lime-technology.com/

If so how do you like it? I have seen other reviews IE avscienceforum.com etc. Just wondering how a Mac user likes it.

Sweetfeld28
Mar 4, 2009, 07:43 PM
Has anyone here that has a Drobo, also added the NAS Drobo base to their Drobo? I mean if you did this wouldn't you be able to have the iTunes folder on it like an external, and stream your music from that? also, does the Drobo backup like normal with the base added, or does it turn the whole
Drobo into a NAS Drive?

mpshay
Mar 4, 2009, 08:02 PM
If you use Drobo Share (the base) then you can run the itunes server app and a few others. Not sure about your last question...you can still use it with time machine and run the time tamer app if needed.

I have the drobo share, but not currently using it. Like the performance with it directly connected to a Mac. I have 3 Minis (2 media center & 1 as a quasi server) that are all always on so that is where I use my 2 Drobos.

Sweetfeld28
Mar 4, 2009, 08:16 PM
If you use Drobo Share (the base) then you can run the itunes server app and a few others. Not sure about your last question...you can still use it with time machine and run the time tamer app if needed.


Cool, thanks for the info. You answered my questions perfectly. What i ment by the second comment was that in the video, it seems like they state that the Drobo turns into something different if you add that base, like changing the array or something?

MagnusVonMagnum
Mar 4, 2009, 11:33 PM
Cool, thanks for the info. You answered my questions perfectly. What i ment by the second comment was that in the video, it seems like they state that the Drobo turns into something different if you add that base, like changing the array or something?

An iTunes server on an NAS is ok for serving music as a share to computers around the house, but it's no help for AppleTV or streaming videos.

jcosmide
Mar 10, 2009, 07:51 PM
Just picked up a Drobo, thanks largely in part to this thread (and incessant discussion on Macbreak/TWiT). I look forward to consolidating my 4 externals into it for Time Machine and SuperDuper backups of my iTunes library.

I may post a little write-up this weekend about it, not that there is any lack of basic Drobo information on the interwebs.

Edit: This purchase came after realizing that my inexpensive but risky plan to store a Time Machine backup in a dual-bay Raid 0 was, in fact, a terrible idea and would ultimately be a temporary measure.

eegger
Mar 11, 2009, 09:49 AM
I currently have a Mac Pro with 3 1TB HD's in it and have almost 2TB of Video's (drives independent of each other)

I looked devices like the drobo or setting up a server in raid 5, but just can't justify the cost. It's cheaper to just by more hard drives and archive them offline.

So I am replaceing 2 of the 1TB HD's with 1.5TB's and (copying the data from the 1TB to the 1.5TB) and giving me 1 more TB of space. I am just saving the 1TB's as my backup. effectively giving me raid 1,(just not real time) and then I will duplcate any new movies that get copied to the new drives and a 1TB external. plus I can take my 1TB HD and leave them at work for offsite backup.


I will just keep repeating this when larger HD come out and as a need space. when 2tb come down to 1-1.5TB Prices , just keep cycling down and sell off the old drive to pay for new ones.

Eventually I may setup a server, as I will have enough hard drives already availible

look at the cost (roughly) ( I have 2 x 3TB )

3 x 1TB + 2 x 1.5 TB = $560

vs

to have 3 TB in a drobo (2 x 1TB + 2x 1.5TB) would would spend almost $1000 and you have a failure you are stuck with the drobo file formate, vs my hard drives can go anywhere or in anything


I do realize this is easier in a mac pro , but you could do the same with single or dual external enclosures, just buy 2 and copy to each.


I might also prioritize what I really want to save and what movies I could care less about losing. this would free up even more space to use.

prostuff1
Mar 12, 2009, 12:26 AM
Would that be this unraid server: http://lime-technology.com/

If so how do you like it? I have seen other reviews IE avscienceforum.com etc. Just wondering how a Mac user likes it.

I love it. The forum over there is great and always helpful. The product is advancing very nicely and when version 5 comes out there should be a lot of things that can be done that are not currently easily doable. I run a "special" distro of unRAID that was created by one of the forum members called bubbaQ that has some extra apps and stuff built in. I run all of my torrents on the server now using rtorrent on the backend and with wtorrent (web interface) on the front end. This allows me (with some prot forwarding) to get to the web interface from where ever i am. I can start torrents on the server from my work if i want, or from my parents house.

I am running the Pro version and currently have 5TB of space in the server. That is 2x1.5TB, 1x1TB, 2x750GB, 2x500GB, 1x160GB. One of the 1.5TB drives is the parity drive (this allows me to recover from one drive failure) and the 160GB drive is my cache drive. The cache drive is only in the pro version and is sort of a temporary storage drive when you are writing to the server. It allows for faster writes initially and then in the middle of the night a script is kicked off that moves the data to the correct place. It works pretty well for me and I have been learning a lot in the process.

Read up on there forums and on the wiki and you should get a pretty good feel for things. I really can't say enough about unRAID and how much i like it.

I will point you to this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=5411121&postcount=8) so you have an idea on what kinda computer i ended up building. Those pieces and part are not exactly what i used but check out my post (http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=2031.msg27412#msg27412) about the main piece of my rig over at the lime-tech forums. Also look through the whole thread to get an idea of what everyone else has put together.

OK, I will stop there for now. Feel free to ask any questions that come to mind.



I currently have a Mac Pro with 3 1TB HD's in it and have almost 2TB of Video's (drives independent of each other)

I looked devices like the drobo or setting up a server in raid 5, but just can't justify the cost. It's cheaper to just by more hard drives and archive them offline.

So I am replaceing 2 of the 1TB HD's with 1.5TB's and (copying the data from the 1TB to the 1.5TB) and giving me 1 more TB of space. I am just saving the 1TB's as my backup. effectively giving me raid 1,(just not real time) and then I will duplcate any new movies that get copied to the new drives and a 1TB external. plus I can take my 1TB HD and leave them at work for offsite backup.


I will just keep repeating this when larger HD come out and as a need space. when 2tb come down to 1-1.5TB Prices , just keep cycling down and sell off the old drive to pay for new ones.

Eventually I may setup a server, as I will have enough hard drives already availible

look at the cost (roughly) ( I have 2 x 3TB )

3 x 1TB + 2 x 1.5 TB = $560

vs

to have 3 TB in a drobo (2 x 1TB + 2x 1.5TB) would would spend almost $1000 and you have a failure you are stuck with the drobo file formate, vs my hard drives can go anywhere or in anything

I do realize this is easier in a mac pro , but you could do the same with single or dual external enclosures, just buy 2 and copy to each.


I might also prioritize what I really want to save and what movies I could care less about losing. this would free up even more space to use.

Check out the system and links i provided above. If you don't mind having another computer plugged in then you can place all of those drives into the server (drives can be any size in an unRAID server, the largest just has to be the parity) and still have the data protected.

MagnusVonMagnum
Mar 12, 2009, 02:58 AM
Just picked up a Drobo, thanks largely in part to this thread (and incessant discussion on Macbreak/TWiT). I look forward to consolidating my 4 externals into it for Time Machine and SuperDuper backups of my iTunes library.

I may post a little write-up this weekend about it, not that there is any lack of basic Drobo information on the interwebs.

Edit: This purchase came after realizing that my inexpensive but risky plan to store a Time Machine backup in a dual-bay Raid 0 was, in fact, a terrible idea and would ultimately be a temporary measure.

I've read about enough Drobo failures (as in the Drobo unit itself) that totally destroys ALL DATA that I would never consider buying one at this point. I don't trust RAID 5 or Drobo. Any time you depend on a system to restore data systematically instead of having a FULL SEPARATE backup, you are asking for trouble, IMO unless you have more than one of those backups available in total. I'd rather have two 2TB drives with complete and total backups on them (e.g. Carbon Copy Clone) than three 1TB drives with the same relative amount of storage. I'd just feel safer even if the prices were similar (I won't say performance better since Drobo is pretty darn slow even with FW800 whereas I get 80+MB/sec with internal dual sata).

eegger
Mar 12, 2009, 07:32 AM
I love it. The forum over there is great and always helpful. The product is advancing very nicely and when version 5 comes out there should be a lot of things that can be done that are not currently easily doable. I run a "special" distro of unRAID that was created by one of the forum members called bubbaQ that has some extra apps and stuff built in. I run all of my torrents on the server now using rtorrent on the backend and with wtorrent (web interface) on the front end. This allows me (with some prot forwarding) to get to the web interface from where ever i am. I can start torrents on the server from my work if i want, or from my parents house.

I am running the Pro version and currently have 5TB of space in the server. That is 2x1.5TB, 1x1TB, 2x750GB, 2x500GB, 1x160GB. One of the 1.5TB drives is the parity drive (this allows me to recover from one drive failure) and the 160GB drive is my cache drive. The cache drive is only in the pro version and is sort of a temporary storage drive when you are writing to the server. It allows for faster writes initially and then in the middle of the night a script is kicked off that moves the data to the correct place. It works pretty well for me and I have been learning a lot in the process.

Read up on there forums and on the wiki and you should get a pretty good feel for things. I really can't say enough about unRAID and how much i like it.

I will point you to this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=5411121&postcount=8) so you have an idea on what kinda computer i ended up building. Those pieces and part are not exactly what i used but check out my post (http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=2031.msg27412#msg27412) about the main piece of my rig over at the lime-tech forums. Also look through the whole thread to get an idea of what everyone else has put together.

OK, I will stop there for now. Feel free to ask any questions that come to mind.





Check out the system and links i provided above. If you don't mind having another computer plugged in then you can place all of those drives into the server (drives can be any size in an unRAID server, the largest just has to be the parity) and still have the data protected.



I looked at that , while it's cool and impressive, thats not what I am going for. I could build my own for about half the cost on their site, but I just like the Idea of 2-3 large hard drives in my system and using my older drives to back those up. I only Raid I would trust is Enterpise level Raid and I dont want to spend the $ for that, plus it really doesnt give me anything more that what I really have.


I like KISS, (Keep It Simple Stupid)


Plus any Raid is still not a backup, you still need a backup!!!!!!!

prostuff1
Mar 12, 2009, 09:02 AM
I looked at that , while it's cool and impressive, thats not what I am going for. I could build my own for about half the cost on their site, but I just like the Idea of 2-3 large hard drives in my system and using my older drives to back those up. I only Raid I would trust is Enterpise level Raid and I dont want to spend the $ for that, plus it really doesnt give me anything more that what I really have.


I like KISS, (Keep It Simple Stupid)


Plus any Raid is still not a backup, you still need a backup!!!!!!!

The thing to remember about unRAID is that it is NOT RAID!!


The prices for there prebuilt servers are actually pretty good. They are quite a bit of money up front but you will have expandability for a long time to come.

I built my server for around $350 total and it is currently holding 8 drives and my data is fairly well protected from failure.

For me, KISS is what I have done. I had multiple externals at one point and it got to the point were i had crap spread on multiple drives. iTunes on one, Photos on another, TV Shows on one, DVD on one, etc. By building the server I have centralized everything into one place and i can not access it from anywhere in the house via wired or wireless connection. Also, anyone that wants access to the content can also be added as a user and be up an running.

eegger
Mar 12, 2009, 09:20 AM
http://fcweb.bloomington.k12.mn.us/~EEgger/FOV1-0003BB7B/TV.jpg?FCItemID=S02A8D94D


I have the essentially the same thing, just do not need a extra server.


Here is my main 2 rooms, the living room and main bedroom.

I have 4TB in my Mac Pro for Vid's and Music/Photo's and a 1TB backup for new data and a 3TB archive of older data




So if my house burns, my most of my data doesn't :)

Shuttleworth
Mar 16, 2009, 08:03 PM
FivePoint, I was inspired by your diagram and went ahead and put mine together:

http://marqx.com/storage/MediaSetup/iPedro_MediaSetup.png
Click for Detailed PDF
(http://marqx.com/storage/MediaSetup/iPedro_MediaSetup.pdf)

Storage and backup are a big thing for me. Not only do I have my iTunes library to worry about, but I'm a photographer so my life's work is stored on HDDs! I've put together a very redundant system of Local HDDs, Online storage, a local Time Capsule, and an Aperture Vault and Pocket HDD in a bank safety deposit box.

Have a look at the PDF (http://marqx.com/storage/MediaSetup/iPedro_MediaSetup.pdf) for a close up.

Btw, with regards to stacking, I thought it over and decided to put the Time Capsule on my work bench instead of stacking it with the tv. :)

Where is your Aperture library? Is it networked or on the MBP internal drive? If it's networked, I take it it still runs acceptably fast?

robotartfashion
Mar 16, 2009, 09:48 PM
I have 4TB in my Mac Pro for Vid's and Music/Photo's and a 1TB backup for new data and a 3TB archive of older data




So if my house burns, my most of my data doesn't :)

do you backup over the internet? if so how? i'm a photog and i've been trying to figure out the best way to do this

just wondering

prostuff1
Mar 16, 2009, 10:22 PM
do you backup over the internet? if so how? i'm a photog and i've been trying to figure out the best way to do this

just wondering

I just signed up with Mozy for there $5 a month unlimited storage thing. Have not gotten a chance to try it out yet but will be doing so sometime this week. Probably going to back up my home folder along with some of the stuff on my server.

ipedro
Mar 17, 2009, 12:53 AM
Where is your Aperture library? Is it networked or on the MBP internal drive? If it's networked, I take it it still runs acceptably fast?

I've tried a networked Aperture source but it isn't quick enough. Nonetheless, I need my library to be with me at all times. Many of my gigs come by spontaneously meeting somebody and showing them my Aperture portfolio (got it on my iPhone now too).

I put a 320GB in the MBP so my entire Aperture library is in there now.

benlangdon
Mar 17, 2009, 02:38 AM
so i had to buy another external drive case because im out of space, i had a 60gb laying around and really needed the space so i moved a couple things.

dude, someone donate a TB for me. come on im dying here.

JPDeckers
Mar 17, 2009, 03:44 AM
I just signed up with Mozy for there $5 a month unlimited storage thing.

Well, their unlimited has an acceptable use policy, and it seems they cap home users' bandwidth. Given that they ask $0.50 / GB in their Pro version, I doubt we can backup TB's of data over to them... You surely will hit the 'acceptable use' cap very quickly.

I use Amazon AWS - S3 myself for backing up my documents etc., this is what a lot of other parties are using themself too as underlying service. Costs are between $0.10 and $0.15/GB(/month), so backing up my 4 TB of movies to them will cost already $600/month for storage, leaving out upload costs...

This all without even looking at the actual bandwidth-max: My home connection has for example 1.5 Mbps up, so in a month I could upload roughly 400 GB, when uploading 24/7...

So for now I do not backup my movies, just my (relatively small) set of private documents, email & pictures. Everything else is for later (when 2 TB drives are cheap), I have the physical DVDs as backup :)

Shuttleworth
Mar 17, 2009, 04:52 AM
I've tried a networked Aperture source but it isn't quick enough. Nonetheless, I need my library to be with me at all times. Many of my gigs come by spontaneously meeting somebody and showing them my Aperture portfolio (got it on my iPhone now too).

I put a 320GB in the MBP so my entire Aperture library is in there now.

Thanks, I thought as much. I think I'll still have to keep out Aperture library on a 1TB USB drive local to the iMac and back it up to another USB drive attached to the Time Capsule, and a third offsite. Too many gigs of photo's to risk it, local backup is ok until you get burgled and they take the lot!!

One of the reasons we got the iPod touch was so my wife could carry a portfolio of her work with her, it's a good way of always having examples of your product with you (she makes jewellery).

Advance The Man
Mar 17, 2009, 05:45 AM
I recently got a 2TB MyBook external and the artist names are not in a file. i.e. MyBook\U2, etc.

I want to do this... MyBook\iTunes\U2

This will allow me to create files and not have them mixed up with the music. I've messed things up so many times, I would appreciate an answer on how you do it.

How do I change the target file location in iTunes?

prostuff1
Mar 17, 2009, 07:18 AM
I recently got a 2TB MyBook external and the artist names are not in a file. i.e. MyBook\U2, etc.

I want to do this... MyBook\iTunes\U2

This will allow me to create files and not have them mixed up with the music. I've messed things up so many times, I would appreciate an answer on how you do it.

How do I change the target file location in iTunes?

You have to tell it not to organize your music. The option is somewhere in the preferences. Uncheck that option and then point it toward the correct folder with the music.

NightStorm
Mar 17, 2009, 08:02 AM
I use Mozy to backup my iTunes purchases... I haven't had any problems with it (except for some client issues in the beginning) and it works fine. I currently have ~250GB of data there currently.

Albion
Mar 17, 2009, 09:14 AM
do you backup over the internet? if so how? i'm a photog and i've been trying to figure out the best way to do this

just wondering

I have a 4TB Drobo for mostly everything including my Aperture & iPhoto library and iTunes and iMovie library. Itunes is currently running at about 2.2TB between TV shows and Movies, mostly all MTR'd and Handbraked in Universal. I don't have a backup to the Drobo yet so I use Amazon S3/Jungle Disk to back up my documents and Aperture and iPhoto library as well as my iMovie files, the DVD's being the backup currently of my movie and tv content.

Highly recommend Amazon S3, certainly not the cheapest, but not likely to fall by the wayside either, and I would prefer to pay for peace of mind. Once the 2TB WD20EAS discs come down in price I'll upgrade my drobo to 2TB discs and get another 4 bay array (probably not Drobo) as a backup for it, so I can swap the discs out for offsite storage.

ironjaw
Mar 17, 2009, 01:13 PM
Albion: Two questions, how much do pay for Amazon S3 and why aren't you consodering another Drobo?

MagnusVonMagnum
Mar 17, 2009, 11:15 PM
I got tired of waiting for the WD 2TB drives so I just bought two internal 1.5TB Seagate 7200 RPM Barracuda SATA drives for less than the price of ONE 2TB "green" (slower) drive. I'm about to move the data from one of my 500GB PowerMac drives over to the 1.5TB one in a little bit (disconnect the backup 500, copy the 500 to the 1.5TB and then disconnect the 2nd 500 and connect the 2nd 1.5TB and then copy the first to the second). I'll probably then get a cheap (less than $80) D-Link network enclosure and put the two 500GB drives in it and RAID them together to provide a 3rd backup of my iTunes library (about 700GB currently, although 300GB of movies are on a temporary external drive at the moment). If I need more space some day in the future, I'll simply change out the two 500GB drives with two 1.5TB drives and RAID them for 3TB and then once backed up onto them, RAID the two internal 1.5TB drives for 3TB internal.

Albion
Mar 18, 2009, 07:49 AM
Albion: Two questions, how much do pay for Amazon S3 and why aren't you consodering another Drobo?

15cents per GB per month.

Although unlike others I have had little or no problems with my Drobo, I am concerned that Data Robotics is a startup and therefore may not always be around. Given this and that their RAID technology is proprietary, I think I will look to a generic hardware disc array (see Macgurus.com) like a Burly and use the software RAID utility in Leopard. In this way, if the disc controller fails I won't lose my data forever, which could be the case if the Drobo controller went down and there was no more DRI. The chances are remote of course, but the weak link with the Drobo is their hardware, so I'm looking for ways to mitigate that.

MagnusVonMagnum
Mar 19, 2009, 12:12 AM
Ok, I've got my two new Seagate 7200RPM 1.5TB Barracudas installed internally in my 2001 Era (but substantially upgraded) PowerMac (which is my whole house audio/video iTunes server to multiple AppleTV and Airport Express units). Well, the primary drive is partitioned and loaded up with the previous 500GB drive software. The 2nd drive still needs partitioned (just a mirror of the first) and then backed up with the primary's contents.

I've been putting the finishing touches on my iTunes library move/update. With the new setup, I moved all my media (photos, iTunes libraries including movie, music video and lossless folders and other various media storage) over to a new "Media" partition so that any restore of my system drives won't involved copying hundreds of Gigabytes of media to fix a simple system crash/problem. Even so, I ended up giving the Leopard partition 300GB (Tiger got 40GB, OS9 got 3GB) so that the Media drive would be exactly 1TB. This will let me take my two old 500GB drives and RAID them for a 1TB network secondary backup (so I have two backups of my media since I NEVER want to have to dump/encode all those DVDs and CDs ever again). I can always cut into the Leopard extra space if needed (I've got extra space to backup on my MBP's external backup drive if required).

Having 4 partitions on the drive went fine. I tested the drive speed with Xbench to compare with the old WD 500GB Green Drives. The old drives topped out around 70MB/sec in Leopard (80MB/sec in Tiger). I haven't tested it in Tiger yet, but in Leopard the new Seagate drives get 100MB/sec sustained reads and 85MB/sec sustained writes. My SATA controller is SATA 1 for the PowerMac, but given this drive doesn't even come close to maxing out the SATA 1 specs (~180MB/sec), I don't know what the big deal about SATA 2 is supposed to be at the present time (unless you RAID 0 some really fast drives or something). The drives seem just as quiet as the Green WD drives (that is to say I can't hear them above the case fans of the PowerMac normally). I did have one freeze this morning after transferring over 650GB of information while transferring the last of my handbrake movie encodes from my PC across the gigabit network. I have no idea what happened there. No panic, just a total freeze of the OS. I've seen Leopard freeze before for reasons unknown so I don't automatically suspect the hard drive is the culprit. Even my Ocotober purchased MBP has had a freeze and even a couple of kernel panics. OS X is anything but perfect. Assuming no more major issues, I'm pretty pleased with the drives' performance and noise level not to mention the price (both drives together cost less than one WD 2TB drive and are considerably faster).

Edit:

I've done the Xbench tests in Tiger with the new drives. I'm getting 93MB/sec write speeds and 102MB/sec read speeds. It's a shame that Leopard lost some ground in those areas. I was hoping Snow Leopard might have restored some of the losses, but it will probably not be PPC compatible so it won't matter for my server regardless, most likely.

emase
Mar 22, 2009, 09:56 PM
So I have a similar problem of everyone here with a slight twist.

I have a mac pro (dual quad core Intels) with four 1.5 TB drives. I have concatenated two of them to make a virtual 3TB drive and then mirrored that to the other two concatenated drives. I have an appletv in the living room, however the wifi signal between my mac pro and appletv is spotty. So when I am watching movies, sometimes it is fine, other times it is annoyingly inconsistent. So I bought a Synology NAS box and filled it with two 1.5TB drives to match what I have in the tower. The idea being I could then copy (at least) my itunes library to the NAS box and serve it locally via a swithc to my appleTv.

What I am looking for is some way to easily clone my itunes library automatically to the NAS drives. I tried Time Machine but it doesn't recognize the NAS shares. I could use some backup softwate but most use some form of compression that renders the files unreadable by the NAS itunes server.

Thoughts?

belvdr
Mar 22, 2009, 10:03 PM
Check out rsync. It will copy the files, and if for some reason the copy gets interrupted, you can start again, and it will only copy the files needed.

Here's a tutorial:

http://www.egg-tech.com/mac_backup/

mpshay
Mar 23, 2009, 06:43 AM
What I am looking for is some way to easily clone my itunes library automatically to the NAS drives. I tried Time Machine but it doesn't recognize the NAS shares. I could use some backup softwate but most use some form of compression that renders the files unreadable by the NAS itunes server.

Thoughts?

Can you sync an ATV to a NAS? Thought it had to be a computer running iTunes

starcat
Mar 23, 2009, 09:01 AM
So I have a similar problem of everyone here with a slight twist.

I have a mac pro (dual quad core Intels) with four 1.5 TB drives. I have concatenated two of them to make a virtual 3TB drive and then mirrored that to the other two concatenated drives. I have an appletv in the living room, however the wifi signal between my mac pro and appletv is spotty. So when I am watching movies, sometimes it is fine, other times it is annoyingly inconsistent. So I bought a Synology NAS box and filled it with two 1.5TB drives to match what I have in the tower. The idea being I could then copy (at least) my itunes library to the NAS box and serve it locally via a swithc to my appleTv.

What I am looking for is some way to easily clone my itunes library automatically to the NAS drives. I tried Time Machine but it doesn't recognize the NAS shares. I could use some backup softwate but most use some form of compression that renders the files unreadable by the NAS itunes server.

Thoughts?
First, you better mirror and then concat the drives and not the other way round. Then, you could indeed use NAS shares with Time Machine (this is also done with Leopard Server to backup remote clients). You just need to create a sparsebundle (newer type kind of sparseimage file) which contains the Eth address of the client to be backed up. The mount must be afp and not smb or the like. Google this up. The other thing is you can create a share on your Mac Pro and put all the iTunes lib data files in there, export this share (like on a NAS). Then import the library on all computers (non managed) and replicate only the xml itunes lib description file between all computers (automatically like using cron via rsync or by any other means). You edit your master iTunes library on the Mac Pro, then replicate only the xml file and all other clients see the same changes/library. No need to replicate all the data files as they are available networked to all clients, regardless if you have them on a NAS or a share on your Mac Pro, the share name is the same for all clients, thus the xml description is ok for all of them. Have fun.

starcat
Mar 23, 2009, 09:06 AM
Can you sync an ATV to a NAS? Thought it had to be a computer running iTunes
Lot of the NAS boxes (like Qnap) have integrated iTunes server, i.e. they present themselves as being an "iTunes computer". This is why a Qnap or equivalent NAS box is way better than a Drobo. Take a look at the TS-509 Pro, the TS-639 Pro, etc. The Irfant Netgear boxes have this functionality too. You can get 70 MB/s sustained out of a single Gigabit port on a TS-509 Pro and it has got two of them. Not so with the DroboShare.

pilotError
Mar 23, 2009, 09:13 AM
Can you sync an ATV to a NAS? Thought it had to be a computer running iTunes

You can use an NAS as a Data Store (I know it sounds dumb).

Put the Library on the NAS and Alt-Click the iTunes on the Dock. iTunes is pretty good at finding the library (I have mine mounted via AFP).

In addition, like the above poster said, my readyNAS has an iTunes server that shows up as a shared library. It's not useable with an ATV though, since you can't validate using the code that shows up on the ATV when you select a library.

mpshay
Mar 23, 2009, 09:13 AM
Lot of the NAS boxes (like Qnap) have integrated iTunes server, i.e. they present themselves as being an "iTunes computer". This is why a Qnap or equivalent NAS box is way better than a Drobo. Take a look at the TS-509 Pro, the TS-639 Pro, etc. The Irfant Netgear boxes have this functionality too. You can get 70 MB/s sustained out of a single Gigabit port on a TS-509 Pro and it has got two of them. Not so with the DroboShare.

I know about using for music as an itunes server. I'm specifically asking about the ATV and associated movies

MagnusVonMagnum
Mar 23, 2009, 12:22 PM
I know about using for music as an itunes server. I'm specifically asking about the ATV and associated movies

For that kind of usage, I'd personally prefer something like a Windows Server based NAS (e.g. HP Media Share) or even using an old Mac as a server (if you want OS X running things). The latter is what I do. I can also use it as a secondary computer for things like secure shopping, banking, etc. It's running 24/7 and has two 1.5TB drives in it that run very fast compared to most NAS units (I'm getting 83MB/sec writes and 100MB/sec reads in Leopard and 93/103 in Tiger). The advantage here with either the Windows or OS X method is that you can run the full blown iTunes application, which WILL let you serve AppleTV units (and iPhones/Touches also). You can easily run a UPNP server as well, Squeeze Center or any other serving software.

Basically, ALL NAS boxes are computers with storage and network interfaces (most minus the video output and keyboard/mouse input capability). Just because the boxes are generally smaller than a typical PC tower (not always if you want lots of storage space), that doesn't really change the fact they are really computers, which is also how they can run things like an iTunes server in the first place. The reason most suck for iTunes + AppleTV is that they are running a variation of Linux which only has reverse engineered iTunes server support and is incomplete to say the least. iTunes itself won't run on Linux (save via Wine, which only works with older versions and VERY VERY slowly) and so you don't get complete support. Thus, a Windows or OS X based server is going to offer the superior experience for such a setup. The latter is BSD/Unix based so Linux really has no advantages there (I can't really say how good Windows Home Server is since I've never personally usd it, but it is still Windows, after all).

emase
Mar 26, 2009, 09:11 PM
So I used rsync to get all of my itunes library to the NAS box, but the issue I now have is that when I try and link my ATV to the NAS, it does that thing where you have to put in the code to get the ATV to sync to the itunes library. Of course the Synology itunes server does not have this functionality so I now (as I read) need to hack the ATV to get it to support ssh and then I can run a small server that will work around the itunes password thing. Phew!

Anyway, I am (slowly) getting there but if this isn't proof of why ATV needs a major rethink, not sure what is!

Chad H
Mar 27, 2009, 11:55 AM
Hey guys,
I have a dilemma. I did have a Mac Pro with all hard drive bays filled up. The last 3 were for media of course. I have 600 movies and even more tv shows, and music(2.3TB worth). Now the dilemma, I have had to sell my desk and Mac Pro and have the computer listed in my signature. What can I do to get these movies to my apple tv? I tried to think of every solution.

bohbot16
Mar 27, 2009, 12:25 PM
Hey guys,
I have a dilemma. I did have a Mac Pro with all hard drive bays filled up. The last 3 were for media of course. I have 600 movies and even more tv shows, and music(2.3TB worth). Now the dilemma, I have had to sell my desk and Mac Pro and have the computer listed in my signature. What can I do to get these movies to my apple tv? I tried to think of every solution.

How about a Drobo connected to your Time Capsule

eegger
Mar 27, 2009, 12:34 PM
How about a Drobo connected to your Time Capsule


He would lose the data on the drives, when the Drobo initializes them.


Just go get some external cases for the HD and hook them to the Time Capsule

or

Go buy 2 1.5TB HD's and put them in a JBOD 2 hard drive enclosure and use the old HD and a backup.

pjfla
Mar 27, 2009, 01:56 PM
I have been following this thread for several weeks now and decided to finally chime in with a couple of questions.

My setup: 2009 Mini with two 1TB WD MyBook Studio Edition External HDs.

I have about 600gb of movies/music/photos on one MyBook and use Time Machine to have the 2nd MyBook back up the first. This seems relatively safe to me... is it? Two ATVs connected to this set up.

Also, my wife does a lot of IMovie work. She is frustrated that she has to actually sit at the Mini to do the work (vs using our MBA or MacBook). How can we fix this for her? Could I just plug the two MyBooks directly into my AEBS?

I've ready a lot about DROBO and Firefly but not quite sold. Im open to all suggestions. I guess it really boils down to two issues: Safe backups which I think Im ok, and some sort of NAS. Im not too concerned about cost, but more concerned about reliability and being able to access our "stuff" from anywhere in the house.

THANKS!!

Anonymous Freak
Mar 27, 2009, 05:51 PM
Heh. I'm down to 2 GB of free space on the external hard drive I keep my iTunes library on. And this is after moving all other data off that drive a couple months ago. It's *JUST* iTunes now; on a 500 GB drive.

FWIW, this may seem a bit over the top, but I have thrown out my CDs. All 1500 of them. These Apple Lossless files are just fine.

I have all mine in boxes in the basement. I ripped 'em all to 192 kb MP3 back in '2003; about two weeks before Apple announced AAC support in iTunes. A hard drive crash in early '05 had me re-rip them to 128 kb AAC, which is what they are still. I don't bother backing up what I own physical media for; so I keep the physical media as the backup. I'm sure I'll end up re-ripping them as Lossless next time I have a hard drive failure.

Likewise, I started ripping my DVDs as 768 kbps 320x240 MPEG-4; now I've moved to 640x480 1.5 Mbps H.264/AVC. Soon I'll likely move to dual-encoded, 720x480 anamorphic AVC at 2.5 Mbps plus 480x320 1.5 Mbps, if I can figure out how to make iTunes store them as 'one' the way it does with purchased HD/SD content.

Next I will start ripping my HD DVDs, once I find a good simple workflow for that. My present workflow is very interactive, and takes a long time; sometimes not finding out until two man-hours of interaction that I have created a bad file. (Audio out of sync is the most common problem.) I'll probably go for 1280x720p/5Mbps AppleTV-compatible rips, unless a 1080p-capable AppleTV comes out soon. (I don't have an HDTV yet, so no AppleTV, but I plan on getting both this Summer or next, after a house remodel.) If a 1080p-capable AppleTV comes out, I'll try to transcode to keep equal quality.

Once I start doing the HD DVDs, it's almost guaranteed I'll end up getting a Drobo. (I have a computer combo Blu-ray burner, HD DVD drive; I've just been getting HD DVDs because they're cheap now. :D)

srl7741
Mar 27, 2009, 09:21 PM
I have been following this thread for several weeks now and decided to finally chime in with a couple of questions.

My setup: 2009 Mini with two 1TB WD MyBook Studio Edition External HDs.

I have about 600gb of movies/music/photos on one MyBook and use Time Machine to have the 2nd MyBook back up the first. This seems relatively safe to me... is it? Two ATVs connected to this set up.

Also, my wife does a lot of IMovie work. She is frustrated that she has to actually sit at the Mini to do the work (vs using our MBA or MacBook). How can we fix this for her? Could I just plug the two MyBooks directly into my AEBS?

I've ready a lot about DROBO and Firefly but not quite sold. Im open to all suggestions. I guess it really boils down to two issues: Safe backups which I think Im ok, and some sort of NAS. Im not too concerned about cost, but more concerned about reliability and being able to access our "stuff" from anywhere in the house.

THANKS!!

The quick and easy way without spending any money would be to share the one 1TB HD so she can have access to it from her Notebook and place all the files she needs on that drive.. Putting a Drobo on your network would also be another solution down the road and of course sharing it for anyone else on the network. Keeping it simple is sometimes best.

Advance The Man
Mar 27, 2009, 09:35 PM
The quick and easy way without spending any money would be to share the one 1TB HD so she can have access to it from her Notebook and place all the files she needs on that drive.. Putting a Drobo on your network would also be another solution down the road and of course sharing it for anyone else on the network. Keeping it simple is sometimes best.

I have a 2TB MyBook (so approximately 1TB to use) - have 350GB of media and this seems to be a perfect setup for me. Can someone lmk if I'm missing something? Keep hearing about drobo - but I don't understand why more wouldn't go with a similar setup as mine b/c of cost. You can get a 2TB for less than $250 now.

srl7741
Mar 27, 2009, 10:03 PM
I have a 2TB MyBook (so approximately 1TB to use) - have 350GB of media and this seems to be a perfect setup for me. Can someone lmk if I'm missing something? Keep hearing about drobo - but I don't understand why more wouldn't go with a similar setup as mine b/c of cost. You can get a 2TB for less than $250 now.

The Drobo is just one of many ideas, it's pretty straight forward and easy to use and has a small foot print over all. You can add drives to it as you need more space and it seems to be appealing to a lot of people needing several TB of HD space. You correct in saying there are many more ideas that are much less $. Visit the Drobo web site and watch some of the videos it will help see why it's appealing for some people.

Drobo (http://www.drobo.com/)

prostuff1
Mar 28, 2009, 10:54 AM
I have a 2TB MyBook (so approximately 1TB to use) - have 350GB of media and this seems to be a perfect setup for me. Can someone lmk if I'm missing something? Keep hearing about drobo - but I don't understand why more wouldn't go with a similar setup as mine b/c of cost. You can get a 2TB for less than $250 now.

The main appeal of something like the Drobo is that you can add more storage as you need it, instead of daisy-chaining drives one after another on your computer.

I built myself a server based around the unRAID OS and have not looked back. The only external I have is the one that I backup to weekly, and that is my bootable backup. I also have my home folder backed up to my server each week… just in case.

The thing that made me go the unRAID root was that I can pull the drives out and get to the data from any other computer. With Drobo, if the machine dies you are more then likely SOL for getting the data back; you are protected from a drive failure but not a machine failure.

MagnusVonMagnum
Mar 28, 2009, 01:30 PM
The main appeal of something like the Drobo is that you can add more storage as you need it, instead of daisy-chaining drives one after another on your computer.

How is a Drobo "not" daisy-chaining drives? So it puts them all in one unit. They are still being chained together. The one thing it does do is pool them together as one big virtual drive (although RAID 0 can do something similar internally or externally, you cannot 'add' to it over time). Of course, if Apple ever gets around to offering ZFS for the ordinary user, that point will become moot as well as pooling is a part of its spec and Drobo will be largely moot once again.

My biggest problem with Drobo (other than being slow as molasses even with FW800) is that I don't trust it. I've heard about too many Drobo units breaking and that takes ALL your data with it. I only trust completely separate drives. I back up one 1.5TB drive to another 1.5TB drive and both are bootable (CCC). If one drive dies, I simply replace it and copy over from the other one again. I'm unlikely to lose data. With a 3rd backup externally and the ability to take it off site, I'm virtually guaranteed to not lose data. And I can get all three drives for less than one drobo with 2 drives AND I will get 80MB/sec writes and 100MB/sec reads to boot.

prostuff1
Mar 28, 2009, 01:51 PM
How is a Drobo "not" daisy-chaining drives? So it puts them all in one unit. They are still being chained together. The one thing it does do is pool them together as one big virtual drive (although RAID 0 can do something similar internally or externally, you cannot 'add' to it over time).
the Drobo does not daisy chain drives together. It creates one big pool for the drives that are in the system. By daisy chain I mean connecting one drive to another via firewire. The drobo does something very similar to a RAID5 in that it spreads its parity (the part that provides protection) over all the drives in the system. The only difference is that it allows you to add drives of any size, unlike RAID5 that needs drives of the same size.



My biggest problem…
I agree with most of your points. I went with unRAID because it allowed me to remove the drives and read them in a different system if need be. They are formatted with the RFS and with almost any linux system can be read and written to. unRAID also allows for data protection and expandability using drives of any size. I have my server (which is a full sized computer) set up in my basement and out of the way. There are 2x500GB drives, 2x750GB drives, 1x1TB, and 2x1.5TB drives in the system. One of the 1.5TB drives I lost because of the parity that is used to protect all the other data, but it is well worth the cost. It gives me a total of 5TB of space. I have an older 160GB drive that I use as a CCC drive and my backup boot drive if something happens.
Now the question is: if you had all those drives in firewire enclosures how much of a pain the arse would that be to plug into a laptop every time you wanted to do something with any given drive? I felt that spending the ~$350 on the components for the server (not including drives) was worth the cost so I did not end up with external drives everywhere.

pprior
Mar 28, 2009, 08:05 PM
Are you hooking to your "unraid" via ethernet? If so, what kind of read/write speeds do you get in real life?

emase
Mar 28, 2009, 09:33 PM
I have seen a lot of people reccomending the Drobo. Has anyone compared it ot the Synology? I have the Synlogy and besides that it can't register a link with iTunes for sharing (harly it's problem) I really like it so would be curious what the Drobo has that the Synology doesn't. Maybe that the Synology is fairly immatre to teh market.

pprior
Mar 28, 2009, 11:07 PM
I have owned (and still do) a traditional nas like the synology (I use the readynas+). From a brief overview of the site, it looks like a standard nas appliance with some nice features.

I think the main selling point of the drobo is you can stick whatever (sata) drive you want in it, and it just works. It's much simpler to admin. Doesn't mean it's right for everyone, but personally I've run a file server, used a NAS, and also own a drobo and of all of them, I like the drobo the best by far. I wish it had better file speeds, but for a time machine volume, I can live with it.

Donar
Mar 29, 2009, 03:49 AM
...
I have the Synlogy and besides that it can't register a link with iTunes for sharing (harly it's problem) ...
The Synology is able to act as a iTunes music server, it should show up in itunes if you turn on the server. Maybe also enable afp protokol.

I have a question to the people who own a WD Share Space: Can anybody tell me how upgrading a 4 TB (4x1TB) Share space to 8 TB (4x2TB) will work. Can you expand the volume, or do you have to erase everything and then start from scratch? The Share space is appealing because of it's low price, the Drobo sounds nice because you can upgrade over time...

prostuff1
Mar 29, 2009, 08:49 AM
Are you hooking to your "unraid" via ethernet? If so, what kind of read/write speeds do you get in real life?

Yes, unRAID is meant to be hooked up to your network via Ethernet and to be honest I do not know if it could be hooked up ay other way.

Once a parity drive is assigned to the array the write speeds are pretty slow; usually between 8-12 MB/s. If you are running the Pro version of unRAID then you have the advantage of the cache drive. When user shares are enabled you can set them up to use the cache drives as a temporary storage place and the data will be moved to the protected array in the middle of the night.

The read speeds are sufficient enough to get the job done. You typically get the same speed you would from reading from a single drive.

MrMarco
Mar 29, 2009, 02:30 PM
Being new to this forum I made sure to do as thorough a search as possible for what I think I need to do and have read a bunch of threads. This thread I actually read EVERY post... no kidding. I know exciting life I have lol.

Anyway I did so because I'm planning on upgrading from my G4 iMac - painfully slow - to the 24in 3.06Ghz/4Gb/1 TB iMac in the next week or so.

I have a Dell laptop with a WD external HD. The WD fell off a table and now my puters cannot recognize the drive so everything I have on it is in limbo. This has prompted me to look into the myriad of ways to safe guard my data. Too bad I needed to learn this lesson the hard way. So with that I searched through the forum and found this thread - perfect.

I'm thinking the new iMac will suffice for a time as I can begin adding to it when $ becomes less scarce. In that vain I want to have a plan of attack so to speak. After reading through all the excellent posts here I'm still left with some confusion. I know some to all of it is personal preference but I'll ask anyway.

Drobo vs HP Mediasmart Server vs unRAID vs Qnap vs stringing different HD together ????

I will be converting my dvd collection to digital and more than likely getting HD movies downloaded also.

So many question came up reading through but this is the general idea of what I hope to do.

Great thread everyone and glad I found the forum as well :)

pprior
Mar 29, 2009, 02:59 PM
"Drobo vs HP Mediasmart Server vs unRAID vs Qnap vs stringing different HD together ????"

Well here is my simplistic view of those choices:

Drobo
Pros: easy to use, just plug in drives (any size) and go. Moderate cost, low power use. Redundancy (one drive fails, can still maintain data)
Cons: proprietary format, if fails can lose all data, slow write speeds, limited functionality beyond storage. Added costs if wish to place on LAN for multiple machines

HP Mediasmart server
Pros: can do a whole lot more than just storage.
Cons: Have to deal with a windows machine, cost higher. Higher ongoing energy use. Basic system offers no redundancy

unRAID
pros: low cost, if you already have older equipment to use. very flexible drive useage (mix and match) and good performance. Redundancy and beyond that if array fails you only lose data on that particular disk
cons: administration and setup takes more effort/knowledge. non-mac interface. Higher ongoing energy use

qNAP
pros: redundancy, multiple machines access by default. fairly low energy use
cons: administration and setup intermediate, less than server/unraid but more than drobo. Drives must be identical, cannot mix and match sizes efficiently

Stringing drives
pros: easy to do (at first), least initial cost, drive failure only loses data on that specific drive
cons: least efficient if redundant data protection desired, can become cumbersome when multiple drives are used, can be visually obnoxious. Can't share with multiple machines unless primary computer is running

that's just a quick list off the top of my head - others feel free to correct me or disagree.

I don't think there is one right answer for everyone. As I mentioned above, I started out with a file server running Raid-6, then migrated to a NAS, and more recently use drobo. Simplicity and ease of use have been the driving force for -my- choice. As I went from PC world to Mac I began to value the "it just works" philosophy a lot more than I used to.

cheers

MrMarco
Mar 29, 2009, 03:43 PM
"Drobo vs HP Mediasmart Server vs unRAID vs Qnap vs stringing different HD together ????"

Well here is my simplistic view of those choices:

Drobo
Pros: easy to use, just plug in drives (any size) and go. Moderate cost, low power use. Redundancy (one drive fails, can still maintain data)
Cons: proprietary format, if fails can lose all data, slow write speeds, limited functionality beyond storage. Added costs if wish to place on LAN for multiple machines

HP Mediasmart server
Pros: can do a whole lot more than just storage.
Cons: Have to deal with a windows machine, cost higher. Higher ongoing energy use. Basic system offers no redundancy

unRAID
pros: low cost, if you already have older equipment to use. very flexible drive useage (mix and match) and good performance. Redundancy and beyond that if array fails you only lose data on that particular disk
cons: administration and setup takes more effort/knowledge. non-mac interface. Higher ongoing energy use

qNAP
pros: redundancy, multiple machines access by default. fairly low energy use
cons: administration and setup intermediate, less than server/unraid but more than drobo. Drives must be identical, cannot mix and match sizes efficiently

Stringing drives
pros: easy to do (at first), least initial cost, drive failure only loses data on that specific drive
cons: least efficient if redundant data protection desired, can become cumbersome when multiple drives are used, can be visually obnoxious. Can't share with multiple machines unless primary computer is running

that's just a quick list off the top of my head - others feel free to correct me or disagree.

I don't think there is one right answer for everyone. As I mentioned above, I started out with a file server running Raid-6, then migrated to a NAS, and more recently use drobo. Simplicity and ease of use have been the driving force for -my- choice. As I went from PC world to Mac I began to value the "it just works" philosophy a lot more than I used to.

cheers

Excellent recap - thanks :)

I suppose I can further widdle down my choice if I want it to also serve so I, or someone else, can access my files/movies/music from another location.

omni
Mar 31, 2009, 07:43 PM
Drobo
Pros: easy to use, just plug in drives (any size) and go. Moderate cost, low power use. Redundancy (one drive fails, can still maintain data)
Cons: proprietary format, if fails can lose all data, slow write speeds, limited functionality beyond storage. Added costs if wish to place on LAN for multiple machines


So Drobo only works by plugging it into a computer?? If I want to put it on my network so all the computers in my house can see it, I have to pay extra??

pprior
Mar 31, 2009, 08:37 PM
The "standard" drobo is a firewire or USB device - it hooks directly to a computer. Of course you could share that via the OS to any other computer but that requires the computer to which it is attached to be turned on.

Drobo makes a "droboshare" add-on which allows the drobo to function as a NAS - serving files over ethernet as a standalone unit. I don't have any experience with this device, but others here I'm sure do. The drobo site has a bunch of info on this as well.

shelant
Apr 7, 2009, 12:20 PM
http://www.9to5mac.com/drobo-pro-8-bay
WOW!!! $1300 Up to 256TB theoretically :eek:
Plus the iSCSI GB Ethernet. I could connect it to my AEBS N and have it as an ultimate worldwide accessible storage/back up solution for all of my MACs (4) and have enough storage space virtually forever or at least until I die ;)
What do you gurus think about this ultimate solution?

DAMAC3
Apr 7, 2009, 01:13 PM
http://www.9to5mac.com/drobo-pro-8-bay
WOW!!! $1300 Up to 256TB theoretically :eek:
Plus the iSCSI GB Ethernet. I could connect it to my AEBS N and have it as an ultimate worldwide accessible storage/back up solution for all of my MACs (4) and have enough storage space virtually forever or at least until I die ;)
What do you gurus think about this ultimate solution?

Forever is a long time. Wait 'til Blu-ray is replaced by 500GB holographic discs, then you will only be able to fit 500 "Super" HiDef movies on your drobo. Then you're screwed! ;) Saying 256TB is all you will every need is like those people that post about how 20 years ago they had a 10MB hard drive and didn't understand why anyone would ever need more than 100MB. We'll probably eventually find a bunch of new crap to store on our severs that takes up more space than we can dream of now.

$1300 is a lot of money for what you get. I used an old computer (PC Chips motherboard, 1.2Ghz athlon CPU, and 392MB RAM) that I built about 8 years ago to make an UNRAID machine that stores and serves data pretty well. All I had to add was a SATA Promise PCI card, a few TB hard drives, and a couple power adapters. I also just finished building an UNRAID media server for about $250 (minus the drives) that will easily accomodate 10 hard drives. I don't know Linux well at all, and I really am an unRAID noob. But I don't understand paying the bucks for a drobo. That difference in cost will almost fill my tower with drives.

pprior
Apr 7, 2009, 04:43 PM
Wow that iSCSI sounds really cool. I'd love to get my DROBO down in the basement in my server rack instead of attached directly to my computer.

Anyone know what kind of transfer speeds you can expect with iSCSI vs. FW800. Drobo speeds have not been great (I get 15-20mb/sec writes) even with FW800, certainly not saturating the interface.

I am definitely looking at this device.

srl7741
Apr 7, 2009, 06:51 PM
I'm kind of excited about the new Drobo and looking forward to getting one soon.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=682181

It's going to make things easier for me and everyone else in my house.
I hope my ISP does not adapt the stupid idea of caping my data limits.

twoodcc
Apr 7, 2009, 06:53 PM
http://www.9to5mac.com/drobo-pro-8-bay
WOW!!! $1300 Up to 256TB theoretically :eek:
Plus the iSCSI GB Ethernet. I could connect it to my AEBS N and have it as an ultimate worldwide accessible storage/back up solution for all of my MACs (4) and have enough storage space virtually forever or at least until I die ;)
What do you gurus think about this ultimate solution?

so what exactly does 16 x 16TB mean? there are no 16TB drives

dlegend
Apr 7, 2009, 07:24 PM
$1300 is a lot of money for what you get. I used an old computer (PC Chips motherboard, 1.2Ghz athlon CPU, and 392MB RAM) that I built about 8 years ago to make an UNRAID machine that stores and serves data pretty well. All I had to add was a SATA Promise PCI card, a few TB hard drives, and a couple power adapters. I also just finished building an UNRAID media server for about $250 (minus the drives) that will easily accomodate 10 hard drives. I don't know Linux well at all, and I really am an unRAID noob. But I don't understand paying the bucks for a drobo. That difference in cost will almost fill my tower with drives.

How'd you set that up with your old computer? I have an old desktop that I want to set up for this exact purpose but I'm not sure how to set up RAID or get it to connect to my mac.

pprior
Apr 7, 2009, 08:34 PM
so what exactly does 16 x 16TB mean? there are no 16TB drives

I think it means with the drobo dashboard software you can cluster up to 16 of these devices as a single volume so with 2 tb drives x 8 you would get 16TB per drobopro and clustering 16 you would get an enormous single volume, which for almost every mere mortal would be complete overkill.

pprior
Apr 7, 2009, 08:36 PM
How'd you set that up with your old computer? I have an old desktop that I want to set up for this exact purpose but I'm not sure how to set up RAID or get it to connect to my mac.

http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php?title=Getting_Started_with_unRAID

srl7741
Apr 7, 2009, 09:14 PM
I think it means with the drobo dashboard software you can cluster up to 16 of these devices as a single volume so with 2 tb drives x 8 you would get 16TB per drobopro and clustering 16 you would get an enormous single volume, which for almost every mere mortal would be complete overkill.

hahaha, do ya think? I can't even imagine having that much storage in a home. Actually...... that may out last me. My family could keep adding long after i was gone. :(

shelant
Apr 7, 2009, 10:36 PM
hahaha, do ya think? I can't even imagine having that much storage in a home. Actually...... that may out last me. My family could keep adding long after i was gone. :(

That is what I was implying to, when I said "forever" :cool:
It is really early to even think about 500GB discs, but for my 500+ DVD and 3000+ cd collections and all the back up needs this new drobo with 8 2TB HDs will be a sweet spot of my computer universe. And with the possibility to go up to 256TB and the 2 hd redundancy level, $1300 don't seem too much. It's a great, future proof device. I look forward to read some reviews and hope that the reliability and speed will be better then the current drobo.

prostuff1
Apr 7, 2009, 11:29 PM
How'd you set that up with your old computer? I have an old desktop that I want to set up for this exact purpose but I'm not sure how to set up RAID or get it to connect to my mac.

Do some reading on the unRAID forums.

I am also an unRAID user and am loving it. There is some nice progress being made and the software is updated on a pretty regular basis. The forum community is one of the most helpful and courteous I have ever been a part of.

DAMAC3
Apr 8, 2009, 08:07 AM
How'd you set that up with your old computer? I have an old desktop that I want to set up for this exact purpose but I'm not sure how to set up RAID or get it to connect to my mac.

As long as your old computer will boot from a USB device, you have a good shot of unRAID working with it. My old PC is a piece of crap! I built it on a budget 8 years ago. It definately isn't ideal for any type of server, but it has just enough horsepower to run unRAID with a parity drive. I only spent $50 on a the SATA Promise PCI card and $6 on two adapters for the newer power connector on the back of SATA HDDs. You can use the free version of unRAID with 3 drives. So I bought 3 1TB drives. One is the parity drive. So I have started with a 2TB server with redundancy for $56 (not counting the drives). I've got the parts put together for a better system that can easily house, the PSU can power, and the mobo (with my Promise card) can connect to 10 SATA drives. This cost me $200 (another $50 if you count my Promise card).

Once you get the system set up, it is a breeze to manage if you just want to run a big dumb storage box (with redundancy). There is a web interface that controls it (you access via ethernet). And people have written all kinds of scripts for it so people that aren't very familiar with Linux (like me but I'm learning) can do lots of different things with it.

It can be tricky gettings started, but it is worth looking into so you can save a lot of money and get great functionality.

twoodcc
Apr 8, 2009, 08:15 AM
I think it means with the drobo dashboard software you can cluster up to 16 of these devices as a single volume so with 2 tb drives x 8 you would get 16TB per drobopro and clustering 16 you would get an enormous single volume, which for almost every mere mortal would be complete overkill.

oh ok, that makes more since. but by the time we need that much storage, they probably won't make this version of the drobo

starcat
Apr 8, 2009, 11:25 AM
Wow that iSCSI sounds really cool. I'd love to get my DROBO down in the basement in my server rack instead of attached directly to my computer.

Anyone know what kind of transfer speeds you can expect with iSCSI vs. FW800. Drobo speeds have not been great (I get 15-20mb/sec writes) even with FW800, certainly not saturating the interface.

I am definitely looking at this device.
And I get 70MB/s out of each port of my Qnap TS-509 Pro *today*. And I have tons of services running on it, like a mail server, web server, blog server, SlimCenter feeding all my Squezebox and Transporter clients, etc. Would never think about exchanging it against a Drobo! Never! It also already has iSCSI should I need it!

And if you need 8-bay: http://www.qnap.com/pro_detail_feature.asp?p_id=109

starcat
Apr 8, 2009, 11:28 AM
Forever is a long time. Wait 'til Blu-ray is replaced by 500GB holographic discs, then you will only be able to fit 500 "Super" HiDef movies on your drobo. Then you're screwed! ;) Saying 256TB is all you will every need is like those people that post about how 20 years ago they had a 10MB hard drive and didn't understand why anyone would ever need more than 100MB. We'll probably eventually find a bunch of new crap to store on our severs that takes up more space than we can dream of now.
HVD is 3.9TB a disc and not 500GB, you may want to check out wikipediat at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile_Disc

starcat
Apr 8, 2009, 11:33 AM
As long as your old computer will boot from a USB device, you have a good shot of unRAID working with it. My old PC is a piece of crap! I built it on a budget 8 years ago. It definately isn't ideal for any type of server, but it has just enough horsepower to run unRAID with a parity drive. I only spent $50 on a the SATA Promise PCI card and $6 on two adapters for the newer power connector on the back of SATA HDDs. You can use the free version of unRAID with 3 drives. So I bought 3 1TB drives. One is the parity drive. So I have started with a 2TB server with redundancy for $56 (not counting the drives). I've got the parts put together for a better system that can easily house, the PSU can power, and the mobo (with my Promise card) can connect to 10 SATA drives. This cost me $200 (another $50 if you count my Promise card).

Once you get the system set up, it is a breeze to manage if you just want to run a big dumb storage box (with redundancy). There is a web interface that controls it (you access via ethernet). And people have written all kinds of scripts for it so people that aren't very familiar with Linux (like me but I'm learning) can do lots of different things with it.

It can be tricky gettings started, but it is worth looking into so you can save a lot of money and get great functionality.

It is not only tricky to get it started it is very time consuming and uncertain maintaining and upgrading it over the years. A Qnap is updated in 2 minutes and if something goes wrong it automatically reverts to its previous working OS revision. You need a lot to implement this sort of functionality. In the past I have had all kind of general purpose linux servers with up to 16 drives in them, they are all cumbersome and can't be compared with a dedicated NAS server. Qnap 509 gets 70MB/s of each of its GigE ports. This is almost impossible with a general purpose PC at least not if you don't tune the eth driver and invest a lot of time in selecting the proper Eth interface which just isn't worth the time today. Just my humble 0.02c

prostuff1
Apr 8, 2009, 12:15 PM
It is not only tricky to get it started it is very time consuming and uncertain maintaining and upgrading it over the years. A Qnap is updated in 2 minutes and if something goes wrong it automatically reverts to its previous working OS revision. You need a lot to implement this sort of functionality. In the past I have had all kind of general purpose linux servers with up to 16 drives in them, they are all cumbersome and can't be compared with a dedicated NAS server. Qnap 509 gets 70MB/s of each of its GigE ports. This is almost impossible with a general purpose PC at least not if you don't tune the eth driver and invest a lot of time in selecting the proper Eth interface which just isn't worth the time today. Just my humble 0.02c

That is a lie. While unRAID is based on linux (Slackware) it is very easy to use for the basic functions. There is extensive documentation in the wiki, which you can get to through there site.

Upgrade and downgrading to a newer/older version of unRAID is a matter of copying two files (bzroot and bzimage) to the flash drive. Depending on the version you are upgrading to you might need to copy more files but in general it is 2 files. These files can be copied over the network to the flash drive that the OS is running on while the server is still running. From there all you have to do is stop the array, and hit the restart button from the web management interface.

On the easy of use front something that is prebuilt like the Qnap is going to be easier to use. On the homemade NAS front you are going to be hard pressed to find something like unRAID that will allow you to mix and match drive sizes and kinds (SATA1, SATA2, IDE).

fivepoint
Apr 8, 2009, 12:24 PM
http://www.drobo.com/images/drobopro-front.gif

Drobo Pro launched yesterday. Holds up to 16TB!
http://www.drobo.com

DAMAC3
Apr 8, 2009, 12:48 PM
HVD is 3.9TB a disc and not 500GB, you may want to check out wikipediat at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile_Disc

Just making a joke. Didn't really feel the need to research.

It is not only tricky to get it started it is very time consuming and uncertain maintaining and upgrading it over the years. A Qnap is updated in 2 minutes and if something goes wrong it automatically reverts to its previous working OS revision. You need a lot to implement this sort of functionality. In the past I have had all kind of general purpose linux servers with up to 16 drives in them, they are all cumbersome and can't be compared with a dedicated NAS server. Qnap 509 gets 70MB/s of each of its GigE ports. This is almost impossible with a general purpose PC at least not if you don't tune the eth driver and invest a lot of time in selecting the proper Eth interface which just isn't worth the time today. Just my humble 0.02c

It doesn't sound like you have much knowledge of unRAID or how it works. Here is a wiki page for you:

http://lime-technology.com/wiki/inde...ed_with_unRAID

I would argue that a few hours or research and tweaking is worth the hundreds of dollars you save in pre-packaged hardware costs. And of course there is the fun of doing it yourself and learning something new.

pprior
Apr 8, 2009, 02:55 PM
And I get 70MB/s out of each port of my Qnap TS-509 Pro *today*. And I have tons of services running on it, like a mail server, web server, blog server, SlimCenter feeding all my Squezebox and Transporter clients, etc. Would never think about exchanging it against a Drobo! Never! It also already has iSCSI should I need it!

And if you need 8-bay: http://www.qnap.com/pro_detail_feature.asp?p_id=109

Yes, that looks nice. But it's over $1700 so as I said, similar solutions will cost MORE.

MovieCutter
Apr 8, 2009, 08:03 PM
http://www.drobo.com/images/drobopro-front.gif

Drobo Pro launched yesterday. Holds up to 16TB!
http://www.drobo.com

Already ordered mine!

cleric
Apr 8, 2009, 09:02 PM
The Drobo Pro looks absurdly overpriced? For $1300 you can buy a pretty nice raid card.

I just use a FreeBSD box with ZFS for my storage.

twoodcc
Apr 8, 2009, 09:06 PM
The Drobo Pro looks absurdly overpriced? For $1300 you can buy a pretty nice raid card.

I just use a FreeBSD box with ZFS for my storage.

but not everyone is good with linux. was that easy to setup?

DoFoT9
Apr 8, 2009, 09:15 PM
I hope my ISP does not adapt the stupid idea of caping my data limits.

oh have a cry haha! we have a 25gb limit :( as does the rest of our country.

dlegend
Apr 8, 2009, 09:38 PM
thanks for all of the advice guys! I think for now my best bet is to still still with regular externals, there will have to be a serious upgrade to some RAID/UnRaid in the next year or so

benlangdon
Apr 9, 2009, 12:02 AM
hey is there anyway to back up time machine?

like time machine a time machine drive?

DoFoT9
Apr 9, 2009, 12:04 AM
hey is there anyway to back up time machine?

like time machine a time machine drive?

cloning the drive, or creating a really big disk image of the partition...

benlangdon
Apr 9, 2009, 12:12 AM
cloning the drive, or creating a really big disk image of the partition...

haha your posting in my thread about firefox.
nice drums by the way, i play as well.
and X1600 OC'd, over clocked? do you have any info on doing that?

DoFoT9
Apr 9, 2009, 12:18 AM
haha your posting in my thread about firefox.
nice drums by the way, i play as well.
and X1600 OC'd, over clocked? do you have any info on doing that?

haha i know, im everywhere at once :p

thanks, i LOVE drumming!! best way to relieve stress, you in a band at all??

yea overclocked, only in windows but - im not tech savvy enough to overclock it via the EFI.... :|

cleric
Apr 9, 2009, 12:56 AM
but not everyone is good with linux. was that easy to setup?
The simple solution for the not so unix inclined would appear to be FreeNAS or Openfiler.

FreeNAS: http://www.freenas.org/

Openfiler: http://www.openfiler.com/

benlangdon
Apr 9, 2009, 01:10 AM
haha i know, im everywhere at once :p

thanks, i LOVE drumming!! best way to relieve stress, you in a band at all??

yea overclocked, only in windows but - im not tech savvy enough to overclock it via the EFI.... :|

i wish i was in a band, so lame not jamming.
i just recently had midterms and while stressed out to no other i could not play drums, it was i was like five years old, couldn't keep a temp at all either.
then after my last test i played and i came up with a new beat it like 5 min.

o hey guys i think im going to buy my first tb drive:D

DoFoT9
Apr 9, 2009, 03:51 AM
i wish i was in a band, so lame not jamming.
i just recently had midterms and while stressed out to no other i could not play drums, it was i was like five years old, couldn't keep a temp at all either.
then after my last test i played and i came up with a new beat it like 5 min.

o hey guys i think im going to buy my first tb drive:D

yea my band hasnt ben jamming that much either, having one next thursday but so its going to be awsome!!!!!

your first tb?? nice!! i have 2x1tb + 2x500gb + a 250gb + a 500gb in my laptop.. thinking of upgrading everything to a TB (including laptop eheh)

Donar
Apr 9, 2009, 03:57 AM
Already ordered mine!
Would be nice if you report your first impressions. :)

starcat
Apr 10, 2009, 04:53 AM
On the easy of use front something that is prebuilt like the Qnap is going to be easier to use. On the homemade NAS front you are going to be hard pressed to find something like unRAID that will allow you to mix and match drive sizes and kinds (SATA1, SATA2, IDE).Of course you can mix and match sizes, but you only put SATA carriers in there, or would you find big IDE drives? While mixing drives is possible it is actually not a wise step (except for migration) as you don't want to have your drives in the same RAID set behave differently. And they do, even if they are on different firmware level.

starcat
Apr 10, 2009, 04:56 AM
hey is there anyway to back up time machine?
like time machine a time machine drive?No directly but you can set up a Qnap NAS to be a Time Machine drive and set that Volume to be replicated by the Qnap to another Qnap even on a remote location over IP. You can set this up with a general purpose server, like Mac OS X server and use tools like rsync to replicate that TM volume to another server somewhere, but all this is more complicated, but possible. TM uses (new) sparsebundle files to store the backup so nothing easier as to copy them to something else.

PS: and before someone says it is not possible to setup TM on a NAS, yes it is.

starcat
Apr 10, 2009, 05:05 AM
I would argue that a few hours or research and tweaking is worth the hundreds of dollars you save in pre-packaged hardware costs. And of course there is the fun of doing it yourself and learning something new.
Intelectually prepackaged is great and will choose it anytime to a homegrown solution. I also buy my Macbooks from Apple and don't build them myself. However there are a lot of people that do this and its ok.

You can run a *lot* of software like mail server, slimcenter, Joomla, WorldPress directly on the Qnap making it a single central server for everything. You can replicate it to another location. The software support in the community is great. I am not saying you can't do this with unRaid and a general purpose Linus install, it will just eat much more time researching and building the solution yourself.
Need a firmware upgrade on the Qnap? Just download the file and click on a button. If something goes wrong, it automatically reverts to the previous firmware. Do you have this level of confidence while upgrading unRaid?

prostuff1
Apr 10, 2009, 08:05 AM
Of course you can mix and match sizes, but you only put SATA carriers in there, or would you find big IDE drives? While mixing drives is possible it is actually not a wise step (except for migration) as you don't want to have your drives in the same RAID set behave differently. And they do, even if they are on different firmware level.

You don't understand how unRAID works. unRAID is NOT RAID. Each disk is its own file system and then there is a parity disk that protects all of the data. If two disks fail you will lose your data on those two disk but NOT on the rest; lose two disks in a RAID5 and your screwed. Also, should you need to pull a drive because the board in the server dies you can get to the data on the disk via any system that can read the Rieser File System. Try doing that with a drive in a RAID5. unRAID does no give a rats ass about size of drive, firmware on drive, etc. The reason for the mixing of drives is two fold; 1 is for migration to larger drives, and 2 is for the reuse of drives. I believe that Seagate actaully released 1TB IDE drives for a while, should people that bought those stop using them because they are IDE?

Intelectually prepackaged is great and will choose it anytime to a homegrown solution. I also buy my Macbooks from Apple and don't build them myself. However there are a lot of people that do this and its ok.

You can run a *lot* of software like mail server, slimcenter, Joomla, WorldPress directly on the Qnap making it a single central server for everything. You can replicate it to another location. The software support in the community is great. I am not saying you can't do this with unRaid and a general purpose Linus install, it will just eat much more time researching and building the solution yourself.
Need a firmware upgrade on the Qnap? Just download the file and click on a button. If something goes wrong, it automatically reverts to the previous firmware. Do you have this level of confidence while upgrading unRaid?

You are right on some of the things here. And some of this is presonal preference. The Qnap looks like a good system I am not arguing that. The personal preference comes in with choosing something that runs a proprietary system. Some of the parts of the unRAID OS are closed source but in the whole it is a Slackware linux and uses the RFS. The fact that I can get to my drives whenever I like and they do not hae to be in the server is one of the main reasons I went with it.
If you need to back up remotely then all you need to use is rsync which is in the unRAID OS. You can get a webserver, like lighttpd or apache, running on unRAID also. I currently run an addon to unRAID that allows me to have lighttpd, rtorrent (with web front end wtorrent), slimserver, NzbGet, apcups deamon (for my UPS), and u-notify (an email addon for notifying me of server status). These can all be added with an extracting of a zip file and the running of a .bat script.
The OS on the unRAID server is only the matter of replacing two files to upgrade to the new version. If for some reason it does not work correctly you can replace those two files again to revert back.

eegger
Apr 10, 2009, 08:47 AM
You don't understand how unRAID works. unRAID is NOT RAID. Each disk is its own file system and then there is a parity disk that protects all of the data. If two disks fail you will lose your data on those two disk but NOT on the rest; lose to disk in a RAID5 and your screwed. Also, should you need to pull a drive because the board in the server dies you can get to the data on the disk via any system that can read the Rieser File System. Try doing that with a drive in a RAID5. unRAID does no give a rats ass about size of drive, firmware on drive, etc. The reason for the mixing of drives is two fold; 1 is for migration to larger drives, and 2 is for the reuse of drives. I believe that Seagate actaully released 1TB IDE drives for a while, should people that bought those stop using them because they are IDE?


Apparently you don’t understand Raid 5, first of all it depend on how many drives are in your raid 5 array. The minimum is 3 to have raid 5. You can lose 1 drive in that config and lose no information what so ever. replace the dead drive and it rebuilds. The larger array you have the more drive failures the array can withstand.

This is why enterprise/ businesses use raid 5 or higher on their data !!!!!!!!!

as for your controller dying, you would need an identical controller or maybe a controller from the same manufacturer to recover your raid. where it's on the motherboard or add-on card. I wouldn't recommend using a cheap or no brand raid card. check the warranty on the card before you buy.


I think for a raid solution for most home users would be just to have multiple Raid 1 volumes. It is simple and has less hassles of raid 5. Drives and controllers are cheap, and you take still take the hard drives anywhere, since the drives are mirrored, you can take the drives and put them in anything, another computer/ enclosure. ( I.E. you can take the 2 hard drives that are in raid 1 and separate them and be fine)

eegger
Apr 10, 2009, 09:48 AM
Buy 2 of these

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817347021

buy 4 of these

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148337

For a cost of $560 and you have 2 3TB volumes, one for data, and one for TimeMachine

Need more space, buy the 2TB Westerns instead of 1.5TB Drives or double the above for 6TB,

VS

the drobo

Drobo is roughly with 4 1.5TB HD is about $970 or about $400 more and more complicated.


over time replace the 1.5 with ever comes out next (2.5TB or 3TB drives eventually)or when 2GB get cheaper. Size what you need for the next year or two and replace with larger drives.

I have 900+ movies and have a 3tb Volumes with 700-800 GB free, this should last atleast a year from now and larger drives will be cheaper and larger 1 year from now

DAMAC3
Apr 10, 2009, 10:08 AM
Intelectually prepackaged is great and will choose it anytime to a homegrown solution. I also buy my Macbooks from Apple and don't build them myself. However there are a lot of people that do this and its ok.

You can run a *lot* of software like mail server, slimcenter, Joomla, WorldPress directly on the Qnap making it a single central server for everything. You can replicate it to another location. The software support in the community is great. I am not saying you can't do this with unRaid and a general purpose Linus install, it will just eat much more time researching and building the solution yourself.
Need a firmware upgrade on the Qnap? Just download the file and click on a button. If something goes wrong, it automatically reverts to the previous firmware. Do you have this level of confidence while upgrading unRaid?


I know hardly any Linux, and I have set up two different unRAID servers with very little time spent researching. I can control my server from a web interface that is pretty much self-explanatory. Now, I plan to add some of the features that prostuff1 was talking about in the future, and that probably has a much higher learning curve than doing similar things on your Qnap (and Qnap does sound really nice). In defending unRAID I am just trying to make the point that you have made several statements about it that show you have several misconceptions about it and haven't really looked into it very much. It isn't for a novice, but that person is buying a WD Mybook or a Drobo. But it is not nearly as hard or time consuming as you claim.

prostuff1
Apr 10, 2009, 11:40 AM
your reply here

Sorry, that was a typo on my part. I have corrected my mistake.

I understand how RAID5 works I just mistyped. In RAID5 is you lose 2 disks at the same time you are hosed, all of your data is gone, and your out of luck. If you lose 2 disks in unRAID you only lose the data on those 2 disks not the entire array.

shelant
Apr 14, 2009, 05:46 PM
Already ordered mine!

So??? Did you get yours already. Would you mind sharing your experience and impressions? Please :)

twoodcc
Apr 14, 2009, 08:53 PM
Buy 2 of these

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817347021



so those will hold 2 x 2TB drives?

benlangdon
Apr 14, 2009, 09:54 PM
wow having a hard time deciding wither to buy a tb or buy a new drum pad.

tb = $103.98 including shipping and tax
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3572142&SRCCODE=GOOGLEBASE&cm_mmc_o=TBBTkwCjCVyBpAgf%20mwzygtCjCVRqCjCVRq
pad = $25 without shipping and tax
http://www.interstatemusic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10021&productId=112924

ahhhh, this drum pad is sick and looked everywhere for it, and i have to move a 20gb file to my external with only 18gb left. ahhhhhhhhhh
and if anyone knows which of the 1tb drives from phantom are better i would love to know

shelant
Apr 14, 2009, 10:45 PM
Buy that one
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001IEZX3G?tag=thepartim-20&camp=0&creative=0&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=B001IEZX3G&adid=19JZ8TJVHJFYYYCBZE73&
$93 per TB WD green
Very good deal!

benlangdon
Apr 15, 2009, 12:23 AM
Buy that one
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001IEZX3G?tag=thepartim-20&camp=0&creative=0&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=B001IEZX3G&adid=19JZ8TJVHJFYYYCBZE73&
$93 per TB WD green
Very good deal!

well if i had a case it would be great, but i don't.
and i already have one fantom drive and its small, quite, clean, and has had no problems so i think im going to get another one, and just ditch this other one i have and just run both fantoms

eegger
Apr 15, 2009, 07:51 AM
so those will hold 2 x 2TB drives?

I dont know for sure, the 2TB drives are too much $. It does with works with 1TB and 1.5TB drives for sure. you could go with that enclosure and 2 1.5 drives for the same cost of a single 2TB drive.



I would bet they would though

topher5
Apr 15, 2009, 08:58 AM
Apparently you don’t understand Raid 5, first of all it depend on how many drives are in your raid 5 array. The minimum is 3 to have raid 5. You can lose 1 drive in that config and lose no information what so ever. replace the dead drive and it rebuilds. The larger array you have the more drive failures the array can withstand.


Actually you are incorrect with the last statement. No matter the size, RAID-5 can only withstand one drive loss at a time. There are tricks you can play by having the RAID aware of additional spare drives which it can utilize in the event of a failure however any spare drives do not add to the overall size of the array.

For example I run a RAID-5 with 6x500GB drives. I had a single drive failure which allowed my RAID to continue to operate. I had a second drive failure and the RAID would no longer mount. Luckily I just had to run some repairs on both drives and they both came back up.

I believe RAID-6 tries to address some of these issues however I don't know of anyone who's used it and don't have any first hand experience myself.

twoodcc
Apr 15, 2009, 09:08 AM
I dont know for sure, the 2TB drives are too much $. It does with works with 1TB and 1.5TB drives for sure. you could go with that enclosure and 2 1.5 drives for the same cost of a single 2TB drive.



I would bet they would though

oh ok, thanks. yeah, i might wait for the 2TB prices to come down

dlegend
Apr 17, 2009, 06:13 AM
Anyone ever use this?

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16822154353

I was looking to get the Macally one from a few posts back and put in 2 1TB drives but I think this is cheaper.

eegger
Apr 17, 2009, 08:00 AM
Anyone ever use this?

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16822154353

I was looking to get the Macally one from a few posts back and put in 2 1TB drives but I think this is cheaper.


1 year warranty vs 3-5 year if you buy your own hard drives


Lacie drives seem to have gotten worse over the years too.

benlangdon
Apr 22, 2009, 01:27 AM
hey so im guessing you guys are really using you hard drive's, like not just chillin with a couple word doc. and i was wondering,

How long can you expect a hard drive to last ( i have 3 running 24/7, 2 for data, 1 for osx) ?
Like if its consistently on and consistently getting data written and read from it?

DoFoT9
Apr 22, 2009, 02:14 AM
hey so im guessing you guys are really using you hard drive's, like not just chillin with a couple word doc. and i was wondering,

How long can you expect a hard drive to last ( i have 3 running 24/7, 2 for data, 1 for osx) ?
Like if its consistently on and consistently getting data written and read from it?

why would it consistently be having data written/read to it?? unless you download 24/7 all year long and stuff, or work 24 hours a day (lol) then i dont see this as being a problem..

my hard drives stay on 24/7 prety much, they arent constantly spinned up all the time but they are fine after 3 years.

benlangdon
Apr 22, 2009, 09:25 AM
why would it consistently be having data written/read to it?? unless you download 24/7 all year long and stuff, or work 24 hours a day (lol) then i dont see this as being a problem..

my hard drives stay on 24/7 prety much, they arent constantly spinned up all the time but they are fine after 3 years.

all my files that are seeding are on one of my externals, and time machine is always backing up.

prostuff1
Apr 22, 2009, 01:49 PM
My server is mostly used for storage. I rip all of my DVD's to the server and then access it when I want to through a modded original xbox (this works beautifully in case anyone is wondering).

I do have a couple of drives that never spin down and never stop having stuff written to them.

The Parity drive in my server and disk1 never shut off. The parity is always on because disk one is on. Since I use disk1 as the drive for my torrent downloading and seeding it never shuts down. And since that happens the parity drive has to update what has been written to keep in sync. I have had those 2 drives going near constantly since I got the server set up about a year ago.

ChrisA
Apr 22, 2009, 02:44 PM
Actually you are incorrect with the last statement. No matter the size, RAID-5 can only withstand one drive loss at a time. There are tricks you can play by having the RAID aware of additional spare drives which it can utilize in the event of a failure

It's all just how you define the terminology You can have a RAID5 setup with a second parity drive. This kind of system would have a minimum of four drives but could stand two failures and still run. you can configure two parity drives and some spares and be set for many failures. Possibilities are endless.

Here at the office we have a disk array with 132 drives. We have three of these arrays and keep them all mirrored. Each array is in a different city so we are set if the big earthquake comes.

At home I'm using a dual drive FW800 enclosure from OWC with a 1.5 and 1.0 TB drive inside.

ChrisA
Apr 22, 2009, 03:08 PM
hey so im guessing you guys are really using you hard drive's, like not just chillin with a couple word doc. and i was wondering,

How long can you expect a hard drive to last ( i have 3 running 24/7, 2 for data, 1 for osx) ?
Like if its consistently on and consistently getting data written and read from it?

It is a wide range. Failures rate is what they call a "bathtub" curve, tall at first, then low then slopes upward. There is a high chance the drive will fail very early, even dead out of the box. or within a month. then if it survives this period it should last 3 to 5 years but it can last for 10 years or even more. But for planning purposes you should figure three years but don't be surprized if the drive lasts much longer and don't really trust it until it has been used a least for a few days

benlangdon
Apr 22, 2009, 07:56 PM
nice, thanks guys

DoFoT9
Apr 22, 2009, 07:58 PM
all my files that are seeding are on one of my externals, and time machine is always backing up.

what sort of speeds do you upload at??

wish i had unlimited downloads :(

benlangdon
Apr 22, 2009, 08:56 PM
what sort of speeds do you upload at??

wish i had unlimited downloads :(

no unlimited downloads?
private sites?

well for one site i go 10kb for each file and there are like 50 or so or more, then the other two unlimited.

and i have a speed limit timed during the day so my mom can work :p, if i let uploades be unlimited for everything, there would be no internet for our whole house.

DoFoT9
Apr 22, 2009, 09:50 PM
no unlimited downloads?
private sites?

well for one site i go 10kb for each file and there are like 50 or so or more, then the other two unlimited.

and i have a speed limit timed during the day so my mom can work :p, if i let uploades be unlimited for everything, there would be no internet for our whole house.

haha i presumed you had unlimited downloads/uploads because you said you uploaded 24/7.

i only get 25gb bandwidth between our family :(.

thats a pretty high upload rate, 500kbps is very decent. what do you do?

benlangdon
Apr 22, 2009, 11:06 PM
haha i presumed you had unlimited downloads/uploads because you said you uploaded 24/7.

i only get 25gb bandwidth between our family :(.

thats a pretty high upload rate, 500kbps is very decent. what do you do?
well since i have no idea if we have a bandwidth limit i prob don't.
i can see almost 1mb/s for a while.

that sucks to have a limit, i just downloaded a 20gb file :eek:, garage band jam packs :D there awsome

DoFoT9
Apr 22, 2009, 11:07 PM
well since i have no idea if we have a bandwidth limit i prob don't.
i can see almost 1mb/s for a while.

that sucks to have a limit, i just downloaded a 20gb file :eek:, garage band jam packs :D there awsome

i hate you :mad:


:p kidding


bloody jealous but!

benlangdon
Apr 23, 2009, 01:05 AM
ooo so i have been hearing this random like deeeeee deeeedeeeeee deeeeeeee sound coming from one of my externals (the one thats always running):confused:

Donar
Apr 23, 2009, 03:21 PM
ooo so i have been hearing this random like deeeeee deeeedeeeeee deeeeeeee sound coming from one of my externals (the one thats always running):confused:
Spin down/spin up? -> Relocate data elsewhere immediately!
Movement of heads (sounds more like a constant "klicking")? -> No worry!

benlangdon
Apr 23, 2009, 09:20 PM
Spin down/spin up? -> Relocate data elsewhere immediately!
Movement of heads (sounds more like a constant "klicking")? -> No worry!

no i know the clicking, this is a sound i have never heard before from any drive, it just happens i noticed when im accessing a lot of stuff off of it, like seeding maxed out and using itunes.

on another note, now that i have all my files seeding from my external, things have been way slow for everything else on the drive, man do i want an esata card.

K3mp
Apr 27, 2009, 09:51 PM
My server is mostly used for storage. I rip all of my DVD's to the server and then access it when I want to through a modded original xbox (this works beautifully in case anyone is wondering).

I have 2 old xbox's laying around and I want to mod them. The only problem is that the only links I can find are really old. Can you link me to an updated guide? Thanks.

prostuff1
Apr 28, 2009, 10:12 AM
I have 2 old xbox's laying around and I want to mod them. The only problem is that the only links I can find are really old. Can you link me to an updated guide? Thanks.

I used this tutorial (http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=496263) along with this one (http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=332179). It works best if you have a PC that has 2 IDE channels on it. I had to borrow an old PC from work to get it to work but once I had the proper hardware it when pretty fast.

Donar
May 5, 2009, 02:05 PM
I just got a drobo (4 bay) for doing backups of my 2TB WesternDigital MyBook (connected to my NAS), iPhoto Library and iTunes Library. Does anybody know a good GUI to use & automate rsync on OSX?

BG-Mac
May 5, 2009, 02:23 PM
What hard drive configuration in a Mac Pro (4 bay) would you all suggest for both storing and backing up a large itunes library? I'd like something to tide me over while I save up for a Drobo or DroboPro.

Here's what I was thinking, but I'm open to any suggestions.

Bay 1: WD Velociraptor 300GB (OS + Apps)
Bay 2: WD Black 1TB (Raid 0 w/ Bay 3)
Bay 3: WD Black 1TB (Raid 0 w/ Bay 2)
Bay 4: WD Green 2TB (Time Machine Backup of Bays 2 + 3)

Basically I'd store all of my data including iTunes, photos, etc. on bays 2 and 3 in Raid 0 and keep a backup in Bay 4 with Time Machine. How does this look? What would you do different? Thanks for the help!

robotartfashion
May 5, 2009, 04:02 PM
What hard drive configuration in a Mac Pro (4 bay) would you all suggest for both storing and backing up a large itunes library? I'd like something to tide me over while I save up for a Drobo or DroboPro.

Here's what I was thinking, but I'm open to any suggestions.

Bay 1: WD Velociraptor 300GB (OS + Apps)
Bay 2: WD Black 1TB (Raid 0 w/ Bay 3)
Bay 3: WD Black 1TB (Raid 0 w/ Bay 2)
Bay 4: WD Green 2TB (Time Machine Backup of Bays 2 + 3)

Basically I'd store all of my data including iTunes, photos, etc. on bays 2 and 3 in Raid 0 and keep a backup in Bay 4 with Time Machine. How does this look? What would you do different? Thanks for the help!

I have something similar

In my Mac Pro I have the following:

Bay 1: WD Black 640 GB (OS + Apps)
Bay 2: WD Black 1 TB (Current Photo Work)
Bay 3: WD Green 2 TB (Media Backup)
Bay 4: WD Green 1 TB (Time Machine set up to monitor only Bay 1)

I have a couple of external drives that do the following:

Rosewill 2 Drive Enclosure w/2 WD Green 1 TB drives that I have all my media on for my already ordered, soon to be arriving Mini. I rip my dvds and cds on my Mac Pro and then copy them to the Mac Pro's Bay 3 and the Rosewill enclosure, so Time Machine is unnecessary.

A couple of Metal Gear enclosures that I fill with various 1 TB drives to back up the photo work as it goes. I backup to both and then pull them together when full to put into offsite archival.

Similar to what you're doing but with a little bit of deviation :)

MagnusVonMagnum
May 5, 2009, 11:07 PM
I just got a drobo (4 bay) for doing backups of my 2TB WesternDigital MyBook (connected to my NAS), iPhoto Library and iTunes Library. Does anybody know a good GUI to use & automate rsync on OSX?

I use Carbon Copy Cloner, which is a GUI for Rsync.

Donar
May 6, 2009, 12:49 AM
I tried CCC but it does not recognise the NetworkShares provided by my SynologyNAS (the 2 TB WD Disk). If i try to use "Other location" CCC creates a install package that has to be run on the other "computer", and this can not be run because it's a NAS.

I had success using "arrsync" but there is no option for scheduling...

BOTLY
May 6, 2009, 03:56 AM
I have my ATV synched to my MacBook with some movies being stored on a portable USB drive. When the USB drive is detached I lose the cover art in iTunes for the movies stored there.

Is there any way around this?

tazhombre
May 6, 2009, 07:29 AM
I have my ATV synched to my MacBook with some movies being stored on a portable USB drive. When the USB drive is detached I lose the cover art in iTunes for the movies stored there.

Is there any way around this?

Maybe try using aliases for those files?

Wicked1
May 6, 2009, 07:53 PM
The new Drobo with FW800 as I have looked at TigerDirect.com and NewEgg.com they are both the same price $449.00

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4032471&sku=D162-1010


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822240010


I just purchased 2 of these from Tigerdirect although I had 6 Seagate 1TB HD so I can put three in each, one to write everything to, and the other to mirror to, this Forum helped me make my decision, so for just under $1,200.00 I have the storage solution to grow with, right now I am at 1 TB total storage used between Music, Movies, and TV Shows and misc videos.

Now I need one just for the XXX Rated media :D

Just Kidding

Thanks to everyone on this site, the info here is great and it comes from ppl who are actually using these products instead of sitting at a desk and writing a review on something they used for a 20 minute show, like CNET but I think the ppl who review this stuff should at least own it and use it on a daily basis, those are the reviews that count.

Donar
May 7, 2009, 12:45 AM
Now I need one just for the XXX Rated media :D

Just Kidding
DroboPro! :D

dlegend
May 7, 2009, 06:19 AM
The new Drobo with FW800 as I have looked at TigerDirect.com and NewEgg.com they are both the same price $449.00


I don't know much about Drobos, so I'm not sure if it's the newest one, but Amazon has them for $449 plus a $40 rebate.

http://www.amazon.com/Data-Robotics-DR04DD10-FireWire-Automated/dp/B001CZ9ZEE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1241695143&sr=8-1

Wicked1
May 7, 2009, 07:20 PM
Yep that is the new one however when I goto their site it says $499.00 with a $40 rebate :rolleyes:

bestthereis27
May 7, 2009, 10:48 PM
Yep that is the new one however when I goto their site it says $499.00 with a $40 rebate :rolleyes:

When you add it to your cart its. $449.99 then you get the $40 rebate so its $409.99 or something.

If you looked on Amazon 2 months ago it was going for like $360.00 or something like that :rolleyes:. This is the FW version.

Slovak
May 11, 2009, 09:49 AM
Costco (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11380146&cm_mmc=BCEmail_MayMVM-_-Focus-_-1-_-HPServer) has the HP EX485 MediaSmart Home Server on sale as of today for $548 (includes S&H). It comes with a 750GB hard drive, plus another free 500GB. Just passing along a good deal.

srexy
May 17, 2009, 11:49 AM
Hi all. Just re-visiting this thread because I'm soon to be the proud owner of a Mac Mini and am going to retire my ecotragic XP media server greybox very soon!

Unfortunately my budget does not currently extend to a Drobo or HP Media Server style solution for storage (especially in view of my Mini expenditure!)

A quick question for you all - I've already bought the 4gb ram and 500gb drive to upgrade my Mini. I'm planning on using the Mini's drive for my media storage needs which should be sufficient for the foreseeable future and although I'm not 100% sure - a 1.5tb NewerTech stackable drive for time machine backups of the whole network (1 MBP, 1 iMac and the Mini itself).

My question is - when my media collection outgrows my 500gb drive could I add and then daisy chain several NewerTech drives together for additional storage and could I then back up the storage drive using time machine?

Comments/suggestions greatly appreciated!

robotartfashion
May 17, 2009, 01:36 PM
My question is - when my media collection outgrows my 500gb drive could I add and then daisy chain several NewerTech drives together for additional storage and could I then back up the storage drive using time machine?

Comments/suggestions greatly appreciated!

i would avoid the NewerTech stackers, I've heard lots of reports of overheating and other problems with them.

I use a 2 drive rosewill usb enclosure ($50 from Newegg) and then filled it with 2 1 TB WD Green drives which work perfectly for media streaming,

just a thought

srexy
May 17, 2009, 06:04 PM
i would avoid the NewerTech stackers, I've heard lots of reports of overheating and other problems with them.

I use a 2 drive rosewill usb enclosure ($50 from Newegg) and then filled it with 2 1 TB WD Green drives which work perfectly for media streaming,

just a thought

Thanks for that. I've been doing some research and the prognosis for the ministackers isn't good.

I'm thinking I'll go for the one you've mentioned or a fanless enclosure like this one http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/MEFW924AL1K/ rather than roll the dice and hope my ministacker goes against the trend.

jakerules133
Jun 1, 2009, 09:32 PM
I just saw these yesterday and holy ****.


http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?pid=11263
http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?pid=11261
http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?pid=11118


My only question is :

If you get the 4x8tb quadra package, would it show up as 1 hard drive or 4 on your desktop. That would be pretty sweet, a 32 tb external hard drive.

prostuff1
Jun 2, 2009, 07:27 AM
I just saw these yesterday and holy ****.


http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?pid=11263
http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?pid=11261
http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?pid=11118


My only question is :

If you get the 4x8tb quadra package, would it show up as 1 hard drive or 4 on your desktop. That would be pretty sweet, a 32 tb external hard drive.

That would be a question for Lacie.

Unless you really want to pay a premium for the 32TB worth of space I would look for something different. I did a quick calculation and 32TB is 16x2TB drives and the value for that right now is about $3,700. You are essentially paying Lacie $4,000 for there hardware. I'm not sure about you, but I could do a lot with that 4 grand other then just spend it on hardware. Hell you could build the server and a HTPC and probably still have change left over.

mmccaskill
Jun 2, 2009, 07:57 PM
Due to the disappointing speed (gotten 36 MB/s write) I'm considering utilizing ZFS to house the data, probably in FreeBSD (maybe FreeNAS). I've read great things about it. Not as stupid-simple as the Drobo but at least I wouldn't be tied to a proprietary system.

prostuff1
Jun 2, 2009, 08:55 PM
Due to the disappointing speed (gotten 36 MB/s write) I'm considering utilizing ZFS to house the data, probably in FreeBSD (maybe FreeNAS). I've read great things about it. Not as stupid-simple as the Drobo but at least I wouldn't be tied to a proprietary system.

If that is over the LAN then that is not too awful bad. If it is a Gigabit LAN then it may be a little slow but you will more then likely cap out the network speed before you hit other caps.

Take a look at unRAID (http://www.lime-technology.com/joomla/) and see if it might work for your needs.

jakerules133
Jun 2, 2009, 08:59 PM
That would be a question for Lacie.

Unless you really want to pay a premium for the 32TB worth of space I would look for something different. I did a quick calculation and 32TB is 16x2TB drives and the value for that right now is about $3,700. You are essentially paying Lacie $4,000 for there hardware. I'm not sure about you, but I could do a lot with that 4 grand other then just spend it on hardware. Hell you could build the server and a HTPC and probably still have change left over.

I was thinking that you could just buy 4 of the 2tb versions then upgrade them yourself. The pci card and other stuff that comes with the big package can be bought separately. So if you bought 4 of the 2tb versions for 700 bucks each thats 2800 + 12 more drives at 250 bucks per. That comes to 3000 which is 5800. Add in 300 for the pci card and thats 6100.

I just thought that was a good deal, but I don't know too much about other prodcuts. What other products did you have in mind?

starcat
Jun 3, 2009, 05:58 AM
I just saw these yesterday and holy ****.


http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?pid=11263
http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?pid=11261
http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?pid=11118


My only question is :

If you get the 4x8tb quadra package, would it show up as 1 hard drive or 4 on your desktop. That would be pretty sweet, a 32 tb external hard drive.
yes, they can be combined as a single drive with different RAID-levels below, something like RAID5 for each 4-drive-Qube and then RAID0 over all 4 Qubes, making a RAID50 single drive within the OS.

starcat
Jun 3, 2009, 06:00 AM
Due to the disappointing speed (gotten 36 MB/s write) I'm considering utilizing ZFS to house the data, probably in FreeBSD (maybe FreeNAS). I've read great things about it. Not as stupid-simple as the Drobo but at least I wouldn't be tied to a proprietary system.
You can get more than 75MB/s over a GigE port with a TS-509 Pro (and it got two ports) with 5 drives and RAID5. This will be an open system as it uses Linux software RAID down below, so that you can even take out the drives and put them into a general purpose Linux system.

prostuff1
Jun 3, 2009, 07:19 AM
I was thinking that you could just buy 4 of the 2tb versions then upgrade them yourself. The pci card and other stuff that comes with the big package can be bought separately. So if you bought 4 of the 2tb versions for 700 bucks each thats 2800 + 12 more drives at 250 bucks per. That comes to 3000 which is 5800. Add in 300 for the pci card and thats 6100.

I just thought that was a good deal, but I don't know too much about other prodcuts. What other products did you have in mind?

Still, 2800 for hardware is expensive. I guess it depends on how you plan on using it. I built my own NAS for about 500 (would be more with some extra hardware I do not currently have) but if i were to max it out and use 2TB drives in it I could get it up to about 40TB worth of storage.

mmccaskill
Jun 3, 2009, 07:50 AM
If that is over the LAN then that is not too awful bad. If it is a Gigabit LAN then it may be a little slow but you will more then likely cap out the network speed before you hit other caps.

Take a look at unRAID (http://www.lime-technology.com/joomla/) and see if it might work for your needs.

unRAID concerns me because of the dedicated parity drive. What if that drive fails? Don't I lose everything? I'm also confused about the ability to dynamically add capacity. Is it like Drobo where the volume size is fixed at startup?

mmccaskill
Jun 3, 2009, 08:15 AM
You can get more than 75MB/s over a GigE port with a TS-509 Pro (and it got two ports) with 5 drives and RAID5. This will be an open system as it uses Linux software RAID down below, so that you can even take out the drives and put them into a general purpose Linux system.

Pretty pricey compared to a Drobo.

prostuff1
Jun 3, 2009, 08:55 AM
unRAID concerns me because of the dedicated parity drive. What if that drive fails? Don't I lose everything? I'm also confused about the ability to dynamically add capacity. Is it like Drobo where the volume size is fixed at startup?

No, if the parity drive goes bad you will only lose the ability to rebuild a disk should one fail. Parity basically does an XOR on all the bits/sectors of the drive to compute the parity. Should the parity drive go bad then you would only need to pop in a new one and start a parity build.

If you want to add a new drive to the array all you have to do is shut the server down, hook up the new drive, start it back up, load up the web management interface, go to devices tab and assign the disk to the array. Then go back to the main page and hit the format button. unRAID will format the drive by writing zero's to the entire drive, setting the Rieser FS and telling unRAID that there is a new drive available. Simple as that.

The forums there are one of the best I have ever been a part of and if you need help you are almost certain to get an answer.

mmccaskill
Jun 9, 2009, 09:12 AM
It uses ReiserFS? Not a great choice for large video files.

prostuff1
Jun 10, 2009, 12:40 AM
It uses ReiserFS? Not a great choice for large video files.

Were do you get that from? I would love to see a link that describes the ReiserFS having problems with large video files.

Frankly, I have nothing to say but good thing about the ReiserFS. It does a very good job at file allocation and keeping files together to minimize fragmentation. I accidentally erased some of a drive once and had to run a reiserfsck --rebuildtree (or something to that effect) and I was able to recover ALL the files. I rip my DVD's as complete .iso files and those all come in a little short of 8GB and have never had a problem.

ascender
Jul 2, 2009, 04:01 AM
Well, the time has come to upgrade things again. Internally in the Mac I have 4 * 1TB drives as a single iTunes volume for my library. Externally I had the exact same 4 drives in a Drobo.

Recently I replaced the drives in the Drobo for 1.5TB models and its looking like I now have to do the same internally as there's only a few hundred gig left and I'm still adding content, particulalry video, all the time.

Just wondering, what are the best 1.5TB drives to get now in terms of price v reliabillity & performance?

And secondly, what's the best way to move all the data to the new drives? I was thinking, wipe the Drobo, manually copy the iTunes folder to the Drobo. Then replace the internal drives with the new ones, create a new volume and copy everything back.

Or am I better to use the iTunes method of choosing the new location once, then doing the same again when ready to move it back?

Shuttleworth
Jul 2, 2009, 07:39 AM
Or am I better to use the iTunes method of choosing the new location once, then doing the same again when ready to move it back?

I just moved my 300Gb library the 'iTunes method', from a direct attached NAS, onto a direct attached USB backup drive then back to my NAS (I'd increased the storage on the NAS) and it worked nicely but took a while, perhaps 4 or 5 hours, so with your library it may take a few days.

starcat
Jul 3, 2009, 02:35 PM
The iTunes method of moving files moves only the music files. No other files like jpeg, text, etc are moved. Consider this when choosing what to do.

starcat
Jul 3, 2009, 02:39 PM
I tried CCC but it does not recognise the NetworkShares provided by my SynologyNAS (the 2 TB WD Disk). If i try to use "Other location" CCC creates a install package that has to be run on the other "computer", and this can not be run because it's a NAS.

I had success using "arrsync" but there is no option for scheduling...
CCC can't be used with general NAS volumes. The only option for doing so is creating a sparsebundle (or sparseimage), clicking on it (and making it look like a regulard harddrive) and making CCC backing up in there.

ascender
Jul 6, 2009, 03:31 AM
The iTunes method of moving files moves only the music files. No other files like jpeg, text, etc are moved. Consider this when choosing what to do.

Thanks, never realised that. I'll just do a manual COPY job then.

DAMAC3
Jul 6, 2009, 02:30 PM
It uses ReiserFS? Not a great choice for large video files.

I have several 25GB+ Blu-ray rips on my unRAID server and have yet to notice any playback problems related to unRAID. Any problems I have ever had are duplicated when playing the same file back from the desktop's hard drive. I've not had a single problem with ReiserFS.

geoffreak
Jul 6, 2009, 03:05 PM
Will someone fix the first post of this thread? The Drobo uses BeyondRAID, not unRAID.

starcat
Jul 7, 2009, 04:16 AM
Thanks, never realised that. I'll just do a manual COPY job then.
Welcome!

MusicBrainz Picard is an excellent program which can be used to move files *including* other supplementary files (you name based on file extension) from one place to another including renaming the files based on tags (can be turned off), creating Artist/Album structures, etc. Highly recommended so take a look at it and give it a try on a sample structure first.

penguins01
Jul 8, 2009, 05:03 PM
I am new to RAID setups but understand the basics. I have a music library, mostly ALAC files right now totaling 550GBs. I have my library managed by iTunes on an external Lacie 1TB drive (fw 800) and then manually back up to another Lacie 1TB drive about every 10GB in growth to my library. Usually I just delete the contents of the backup drive and then copy over the latest version of my music files.

I am looking at upgrading my primitive back-up practices and thought about getting the Lacie 3TB 2big drive (the one with the 2 hot swappable drives 2x 1.5TB). I would prefer not to spend more than $500 but this music collection is my baby and I would cry if I ever lost it. Any thoughts/suggestions?

(Running a G4 MDD 1.25)
Thanks!

benlangdon
Jul 22, 2009, 06:59 PM
is it ok to leave my externals kinda hot.

i just moved all of them (finally got my 1tb) to a not super well ventilated area. Only one of them is running 24/7 and is always hot. the other are on but not constantly running.

ortuno2k
Jul 23, 2009, 10:57 AM
Not sure if anyone has asked - didn't read through the 26+ pages of this thread...but how do people with laptops handle this issue?
My iTunes library contains music and a few music videos, and I'm only at 60GB. I have way more music stored on an external HD but I don't listen to it, due to the fact that it's not easily accessible. I could easily double or triple the size of the iTunes library if I rip all my DVD's and add my already-ripped movies...but I don't want to lose my remaining available HD space (100gb).

How do you have a large iTunes library on your portable? I would hate to lug around an external hard drive, or split my media between the internal HD and an external HD.

Any suggestions?

randy98mtu
Jul 23, 2009, 11:17 AM
I have a 2009 iMac 2.93 with the 640 gig drive. I recently started gobbling up space encoding my DVD's (I have about half of my movies done and I just started on TV shows). So I pulled my 500 gig My Book out of retirement to expand my iTunes storage. I also have a 1 TB My Book for Time Machine. My current plan is to get a 2 TB My Book in the near future to start using for Time Machine and the 1 TB drive will become an "off site" Time Machine (getting paranoid about losing pictures and home movies of my daughter.) Eventually I'll get a second 2 TB for off site and probably shift the iTunes expansion to the 1 TB.

Right now my 640 has about 110 free and I'll continue to use it for iTunes store purchases, all music, pictures and home movies. I already has about 200 gig of DVD rips that I may move to the expansion drive if the iMac dips below 50 or so. The 500 only has 100 used and I'm only using it for DVD rips. The 1 TB has under 50 free. Looks like some old backups are about to get dumped. I changed cover art on a bunch of movies, so they got duplicated in the Time Machine .

penguins01
Jul 24, 2009, 01:27 PM
is it ok to leave my externals kinda hot.

i just moved all of them (finally got my 1tb) to a not super well ventilated area. Only one of them is running 24/7 and is always hot. the other are on but not constantly running.

I too have a few of my back-up drives that run hot. They are all LaCie drives w/o internal fans and rely on the external enclosure w/ heat fins to help keep cool. I asked LaCie's tech support and they told me running hot is normal so long as they are not too hot to touch. Nevertheless, I run a fan over them to keep them cooler. I would recommend a USB fan that you can use your computer to power and just have it blow air over part of the enclosure.

benlangdon
Jul 24, 2009, 01:34 PM
I too have a few of my back-up drives that run hot. They are all LaCie drives w/o internal fans and rely on the external enclosure w/ heat fins to help keep cool. I asked LaCie's tech support and they told me running hot is normal so long as they are not too hot to touch. Nevertheless, I run a fan over them to keep them cooler. I would recommend a USB fan that you can use your computer to power and just have it blow air over part of the enclosure.
ya i have a fan on them right now :p
totally forgot about usb fans.
ya im not to sure whats hot to the touch anymore really. i worked for a while as a pastry chief and my hands are used to really hot stuff so its hard to tell sometimes. on my computer i have put my hand where its hot and my computer was running at 160 deg and i left my hand there for a while and then was like dam thats kinda hot. o and i had my mom touch it and she said it was hot in the same place.

Ya that last sentence and pretty much that whole last thing, don't take that out of context :rolleyes:


ugh, i have to post a nice little pic of my set up right now, it awesome, not raid or drobo awesome but still awesome.

tbayrgs
Jul 24, 2009, 10:53 PM
Not sure if anyone has asked - didn't read through the 26+ pages of this thread...but how do people with laptops handle this issue?
My iTunes library contains music and a few music videos, and I'm only at 60GB. I have way more music stored on an external HD but I don't listen to it, due to the fact that it's not easily accessible. I could easily double or triple the size of the iTunes library if I rip all my DVD's and add my already-ripped movies...but I don't want to lose my remaining available HD space (100gb).

How do you have a large iTunes library on your portable? I would hate to lug around an external hard drive, or split my media between the internal HD and an external HD.

Any suggestions?

I also have only a laptop but as I'm presently not lugging it around much (other than around the house), I'm not sure my setup would work for you but thought I'd offer my $0.02. I just added an :apple:TV to the house so I'm in the process of ripping my DVD library and encoding for use on both the :apple:TV and our iPhones--realized that I would quickly use up the 250 GB HD on my laptop. I also have a Time Capsule so I picked up a 1 TB WD My Book Studio and hooked it up to the TC. Since the laptop is right now almost always on and hooked up to my home network, I just point iTunes to the external HD and stream media to my :apple:TV. Since my portable media needs are fulfilled via the iPhone, I can keep all of my media on the external and not eat up space on the laptop.

ginopiazza49
Aug 19, 2009, 07:10 PM
I am thinking of purchasing a ReadyNAS NV+. You mention that the drives aren't silent enough to have in a living room. You also mention fan noise. Can you tell me just how noisy is the fan and how noisy are the drives?

If there is anything more that you can tell me about the ReadyNAS NV+, I would appreciate it.


I have a Netgear ReadyNAS NV+. I manage the library through my iMac, but the ReadyNAS has an iTunes server and can serve everything in the house except for my Apple TV (rediculous BTW).

I sometimes use my PS3 to watch movies or listen to music. I have my router / AEBS / ReadyNAS in my attic, so the fan noise isn't a deal breaker. The NAS drives aren't silent enough to have in a living room. They do offer x-raid, the ability to use mixed sized drives and a host of other features.

It was a little expensive, but now I don't worry about space (at least for a while). When the 1TB drives come down in price, I'll fill it with those.

pprior
Aug 20, 2009, 06:33 AM
I am thinking of purchasing a ReadyNAS NV+. You mention that the drives aren't silent enough to have in a living room. You also mention fan noise. Can you tell me just how noisy is the fan and how noisy are the drives?

If there is anything more that you can tell me about the ReadyNAS NV+, I would appreciate it.

I have had a readynas NV+ for a couple years. I don't think any major changes in that timeframe.

The fan is definitely too loud IMO for living room use. The drives are very quiet.

I'm more sensitive to most for noise, but the fan moves a fair amount of air, and it's mostly air noise not so much the fan itself.

My readynas has been very reliable, easy to admin, and better performance over ethernet than my drobo has over FW800, which is sad for the drobo. I would recommend it except for the noise (I have mine in a closet in tjhe basement).

spue2001
Aug 20, 2009, 12:04 PM
just got my new drobo in the post yesterday , just waiting for the drives , i cant wait to test this bad boy out

pprior
Aug 20, 2009, 04:01 PM
I actually just gave up today and ordered a new lacie 4big quadra (6TB version). The drobo has been trouble free and it's a nice concept but 1) it's too dog slow and 2) it's too loud - the thing will grind away for sometimes an hour at a time or more doing who knows what.

The 4big is supposed to be very quiet, and as eSATA I should see probably 10-20x the speed that I'm getting now.

EDIT: got the Quadra:

Initial impresions of 4big Quadra:

Much faster than drobo (AJA shows 120mb/sec in RAID5 with hot spare - using 3 active drives). This using eSATA. My drobo as I posted routinely got 10-12mb/sec using same system on FW800.

Not much quieter, if any. Fan so far has made a varying level of noise which is actually more annoying than the constant drone of the drobo. I'm disappointed in this part which was a major reason for the purchase. I'm majorly annoyed by computer noise, but this is much louder than the mac pro I run below my desk. Not impressed with the silence factor.

srexy
Aug 20, 2009, 04:17 PM
Hi all. Just re-visiting this thread because I'm soon to be the proud owner of a Mac Mini and am going to retire my ecotragic XP media server greybox very soon!

Unfortunately my budget does not currently extend to a Drobo or HP Media Server style solution for storage (especially in view of my Mini expenditure!)

A quick question for you all - I've already bought the 4gb ram and 500gb drive to upgrade my Mini. I'm planning on using the Mini's drive for my media storage needs which should be sufficient for the foreseeable future and although I'm not 100% sure - a 1.5tb NewerTech stackable drive for time machine backups of the whole network (1 MBP, 1 iMac and the Mini itself).

My question is - when my media collection outgrows my 500gb drive could I add and then daisy chain several NewerTech drives together for additional storage and could I then back up the storage drive using time machine?

Comments/suggestions greatly appreciated!

So my collection is rapidly outgrowing the 500gb drive I shoved in the Mini and I've come up with a cunning plan to maximise my resources.

I had already purchased a WD Green 1.5tb drive which against all advice I'd stashed in a mini-stacker enclosure. In addition I already have a Mercury Pro-Elite JABOD/Raid 0 enclosure with a single 320 gb drive in it to back up my MBP.

towhit:


purchased Seagate 2tb drive which will go in the Mercury Elite enclosure along w/the WD Green 1.5tb
the 1.5tb drive will now store my media, the 500gb in the Mini will be for works in progress (rips/encodes etc)
the 320gb drive is now in the mini-stack fitting perfectly under my Griffin Elevator ready to back up the MBP
my Mercury Elite will now be able to back up the 1.5tb drive AND the 500gb in the Mini
when finances permit I'll pick up a Drobo and shove my large capacity drives into it :)


With the rebate a Drobo is now $299 on Newegg - it's making a very compelling case for itself these days...

ascender
Sep 20, 2009, 10:53 AM
Looking for some advice on where to go next. Current setup is as follows:


Mac Pro, 4 * 1TB drives internally as single iTunes volume holding entire library.

This is backed up to a FW800 Drobo which has 4 * 1.5 TB disks in it.


The internal library is nearly full, so I was thinking of swapping out the 1 TB drives for 1.5s. The problem them comes with backing this stuff up.

Also, there's also the old issue that in order to share the library, the Mac Pro needs to be switched on. A NAS of some sort would get round this problem, but how would I then sync my iPods to the library?

Secondly, what is everyone using to back up their libraries once they get in to terabytes of size? I guess once people have ripped their collections, the majority of the data doesn't then change, so ideally, you could write the collection off to a massive DVD and store it, then just have a 1TB external drive running an incremental backup to take care of the new stuff you buy and rip.

Any ideas?

prostuff1
Sep 20, 2009, 11:25 AM
Looking for some advice on where to go next. Current setup is as follows:


Mac Pro, 4 * 1TB drives internally as single iTunes volume holding entire library.

This is backed up to a FW800 Drobo which has 4 * 1.5 TB disks in it.


The internal library is nearly full, so I was thinking of swapping out the 1 TB drives for 1.5s. The problem them comes with backing this stuff up.

Also, there's also the old issue that in order to share the library, the Mac Pro needs to be switched on. A NAS of some sort would get round this problem, but how would I then sync my iPods to the library?

Secondly, what is everyone using to back up their libraries once they get in to terabytes of size? I guess once people have ripped their collections, the majority of the data doesn't then change, so ideally, you could write the collection off to a massive DVD and store it, then just have a 1TB external drive running an incremental backup to take care of the new stuff you buy and rip.

Any ideas?

As I have mentioned earlier in the thread I do my storage and backup to an unRAID (http://www.lime-technology.com/joomla/) machine on my local network. you can check out there site with the link above, but also check the unRAID wiki (http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php/UnRAID_Wiki) and the unRAID forum (http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php) to get an idea of how the server works. If you have any questions feel free to ask me or post on the forums and the community will help as much as we can.

ascender
Sep 20, 2009, 01:24 PM
As I have mentioned earlier in the thread I do my storage and backup to an unRAID (http://www.lime-technology.com/joomla/) machine on my local network. you can check out there site with the link above, but also check the unRAID wiki (http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php/UnRAID_Wiki) and the unRAID forum (http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php) to get an idea of how the server works. If you have any questions feel free to ask me or post on the forums and the community will help as much as we can.

Thanks for the links, I'll have a read tomorrow and post back.

One quick and possibly stupid question, how do you sync your mp3 players to library held on a NAS? I thought this wasn't possible with iTunes for example?

prostuff1
Sep 20, 2009, 01:37 PM
One quick and possibly stupid question, how do you sync your mp3 players to library held on a NAS? I thought this wasn't possible with iTunes for example?

I mount the iTunes share on my desktop and then point iTunes to that music folder. I have never had a problem with it that way and I have been able to sync my music just fine. I do use another program called multitunes that allows me to have a local copy of music on my internal hard drive and a copy on my NAS. When at home I tell iTunes to use the music stored on the NAS and when away I tell iTunes to use the music on my local drive.

ascender
Sep 21, 2009, 04:12 AM
Thinking about the sharing element of things, would having a device which had a network connection running an iTunes server program, but also a local connection via USB or Firewire, give you the best of both worlds?

So the machine its connected to, doesn't necessarily have to be switched on to share the library to other users or devices?

Going back to the other concern, how do you go about backing up a box like the unRAID?

NightStorm
Sep 21, 2009, 07:20 AM
Going back to the other concern, how do you go about backing up a box like the unRAID?

Use a USB hard drive if one exists that is large enough, or build two unRAID/NAS boxes. :D

DoFoT9
Sep 21, 2009, 07:34 AM
Use a USB hard drive if one exists that is large enough, or build two unRAID/NAS boxes. :D

Or purchase ur own dual/tri/quad case hard drive (fw, usb whatever) and raid them up... Even even just buy a really weak computer with two sets of identical raids lol that would be much easier!

prostuff1
Sep 21, 2009, 06:30 PM
Going back to the other concern, how do you go about backing up a box like the unRAID?

There is an online backup solution called CrashPlan that allows you to backup unlimited stuff. I use there family plan to backup my parents computer to my server and the Internet. I also backup my laptop to my server and the Internet and then I backup the server to the Internet. Granted this can take quite a while but I limited the backup to certain files so it does not take as long.

ascender
Sep 28, 2009, 05:00 AM
CrashPlan sounds ideal, will look in to it, thanks.

QNAP devices are getting excellent reviews, looks like the addition of more powerful CPUs to the boxes is helping with throughput. So that's one option I may look at.

Are there any server programs like Firefly which support video streaming direct from a NAS to Apple TV?

Otherwise, am i right in thinking that I'm still looking at having a Mac switched on somewhere to share the library out to the ATV and others? Then I might be just as better to switch to a Mac Mini as a media centre with a large external HDD attached and run Front Row or similar.

prostuff1
Sep 28, 2009, 09:02 AM
CrashPlan sounds ideal, will look in to it, thanks.
It has been working great for me and I do recommend it for home use over something like Mozy. Crashplans "all you can eat" family plan really is very handy and nice. I now have 3 backups of my, my parents, and my sisters stuff somewhere; whether that is in the cloud or on my server.


QNAP devices are getting excellent reviews, looks like the addition of more powerful CPUs to the boxes is helping with throughput. So that's one option I may look at.

The problem I found with most prebuilt systems is that they are/were to expensive for my taste. If you are willing to spend a little time order parts and building the computer you can build a far more expandable system for half the price of a QNAP like device. I built my server, not including hard drives, for right around the $350 mark. It now has 8 drives in it and about 5TB of usable storage space. There is a free version of unRAID (http://www.lime-technology.com/joomla/) available that supports 2 data drives and 1 parity drive.


Are there any server programs like Firefly which support video streaming direct from a NAS to Apple TV?

If I remember correctly someone did get Firefly (previously mt-daapd) up and running on an unRAID server. I have not bother installing it but it should be doable.


Otherwise, am i right in thinking that I'm still looking at having a Mac switched on somewhere to share the library out to the ATV and others? Then I might be just as better to switch to a Mac Mini as a media centre with a large external HDD attached and run Front Row or similar.
Personally, I would always go with a Mac mini over an Apple TV, just for the fact that it is more powerful and more "future proof." I would still recommend a NAS of some type and not just go with a large external HD. the NAS will allow you to centrally locate all of you music, photos, movies, etc. and allow you a place to backup other important stuff to. Like I said above, I use CrashPlan to backup my laptop to my unRAID NAS (which is free as Crashplan only charges you to backup to there cloud) so that if anything happens I can get my data back no problem.

crhendo
Oct 28, 2009, 01:37 PM
About a year ago I sat down to watch some TV episode on my :apple:TV when a little light went off in my head and I mentally estimated the cost (vs the value) of recreating my iTunes library if ever something went wrong. Needless to say, it was a large number. (estimating "value" is a personal thing but in my case it was probably 5 times cost). So I sat down and worked out a plan of attack. I could go through the entire history BUT I don't want to put you to sleep. My current setup is as follows:-

I am a Vista user (no boos from the back of the room please) and given my history with Microsoft, I purchased a small Shuttle SX38P2 Pro to JUST run iTunes and nothing else. I run the OS on a small 32GB SSD (which fixed the problems I was having with stalling during sync) and currently have 2x 1.5TB drives in Raid 0 format supporting my continuously growing 2.1TB iTunes library. This box lives in my home theatre but it could live anywhere. We own 3 :apple:TV's (the kids bought 2 with their own money!). I dumped wireless and have everything hardwired. In my "bunker" (aka my locked wine cellar) I run a QNAP TS-439 NAS with 4x 1.5TB drives in Raid 5 format (throughput on this device is amazing!) attached to its own UPS. I run an excellent little program called "Allway Sync" which constantly looks at both my iTunes Library on the Raid 0 Volume and my Index files on the OS drive, detects any changes and syncs those changes to the NAS as often as is required. In addition I run a daily image of the OS disk too the NAS. (Needless to say, the NAS isn't dedicated to iTunes but is used by my whole family for backups etc). I share the iTunes libary so all the kids can drag whatever they want off it (into there own iTunes libraries) and ANY purchases are always made on the primary machine. This setup runs 24/7 and, apart from maintenance, has not missed a beat in 12 months. When I need to upgrade to 2TB drives on the Shuttle, I will simply install them and copy the library back from the NAS (yes this does take time but I don't do it that often).

Is this overkill? Given the money that we have spent on the iTunes store, the hours we have all put in loading up our CD collection, the even more hours we have spent with Handbrake migrating our entire DVD collection and our ever burgeoning photo collection... I don't believe so.

At least I can now sleep at night ;)

JLandis
Oct 28, 2009, 03:14 PM
I just bought a Drobo, added (2) 2TB Green Caviar drives. That gave me about 1.75 TB of free space. I will add 2 more when I get low. It is quiet. I love the option of using any combination of drives. Drobo Dashboard is easy to use and it formatted the drives pretty quickly. Throughput is slower than most external 4-bay enclosures but not too slow for streaming movies and music. I am happy. I now have to think of a backup solution. Even though the Drobo allows you to hot swap the drive if one fails, with any RAID system you must have a backup of the data in a separate location. So, maybe a 4 bay QNAP or another Drobo. We'll see.

starcat
Oct 29, 2009, 06:22 AM
crhendo, excellent setup, congratulations! I also think (and run several) Qnaps that this is the *best* SOHO NAS out there (performance, software, community support, etc). I get 80MB/s out of each network port. On my Qnap I run directly SlimCenter in addition to your setup have Slimdevices Transporter and Receiver units throughout the home. The Slimcenter Repository is sync'ed to my main iTunes library (playlist, etc). Wonderful! I was just wondering why do you have your iTunes library locally and copy it to the Qnap and not put it directly on the Qnap, import the volume on your Windows box (a) and point the library to that volume? Or do you like having a 2nd *logical* copy of your iTunes library?

(a) you may install Microsoft NFS Services for Windows and use the much better performance protocol, also able to reconnect to the Qnap after wakup of iTunes...

PS: I even use my Qnap for TimeMachine backups of all my Macs over the network (wired and wireless). Works like a charm.

crhendo
Oct 29, 2009, 07:47 AM
I was just wondering why do you have your iTunes library locally and copy it to the Qnap and not put it directly on the Qnap

Thanks for the compliment starcat. In answer to your question, we travel to a holiday house at weekends or during holidays and it is great to simply pickup the Shuttle box, an :apple:TV and simply walk out the door with our entire collection. This stops all the arguments about "what should we sync to the :apple:TV" and has the added bonus of providing an "offsite copy" while we are away. Otherwise your solution would be the logical thing to do.

I have never heard of SlimCenter before. I will have to do some research.

Glad to hear there is yet another Qnap supporter out there. These are really great products.

bergmef
Oct 29, 2009, 08:06 AM
And I will be a future qnap user. I'm looking at the 419. You guys see any big advantage in the 439 over the 419? I kinda like the power consumption with the 419.

bergmef
Oct 29, 2009, 08:18 AM
PS: I even use my Qnap for TimeMachine backups of all my Macs over the network (wired and wireless). Works like a charm.

I just saw this at the end, any special setup or switch setting?

DAMAC3
Oct 29, 2009, 09:26 AM
I have an unRAID server, and I just bought a Drobo. I'm currently copying all my files over to the Drobo. It will be interesting to see the pros and cons of each. I've been very pro unRAID, but my time is so limited with little ones around the house that my needs for simplicity have surpassed my needs for tinkering. Right now I have about 2TB of TV shows and movies and another 500GB of misc files (music, photos, software, etc) that I backup.

The Drobo was super-easy to setup and is very quiet. Obviously, it is taking some time to move all my stuff over to it. I am anxious to see how it performs with my Mac Mini and Plex on high bitrate Blu-ray content. I also want to see how well it sleeps and wakes up with the Mini as I try to conserve energy when I am not using my equipment.

starcat
Oct 30, 2009, 02:37 AM
I have never heard of SlimCenter before. I will have to do some research.


Used to be called SlimServer, it is the software which streams music to and controll all the Squeezebox clients connected to it. The cool thing is that each client is able to play different muxic, they prform absolutely marvelous in terms of sound quality and there are various size/design clients available, from $100 to $1900 for a high-end unit completely XLR based which can also be used as a DAC (inputs), all following the same concept. There is a huge momentum and open source source support. Logitech bought them about 1-2 years ago. Roku used to use their software too (without contributing a bit) but are disappearing now.

Take a look at http://www.slimdevices.com

Not affiliated with them, just a very satisfied user.

starcat
Oct 30, 2009, 02:40 AM
I just saw this at the end, any special setup or switch setting?
Take a look here http://forum.qnap.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7203 Works like a charm!

starcat
Oct 30, 2009, 02:51 AM
Glad to hear there is yet another Qnap supporter out there. These are really great products.
I looked at the Drobo first but decided against it because of low network performance and proprietary file system. In fact if there happens anything to the Qnap, you can take out the disks, insert in any Linux based box and recover your data, as they are just using standard Linux stuff wrapping around a very simple but powerful web user interface. While all basic things like online expansion or swapping drives against bigger ones are available here too of course. To able to run pre-packaged and popular soft on the Qnap is also a huge plus (it is actually a server with a very powerful CPU one can even ssh to).

starcat
Oct 30, 2009, 02:53 AM
Glad to hear there is yet another Qnap supporter out there. These are really great products.
I looked at the Drobo first but decided against it because of low network performance and proprietary file system. In fact if there happens anything to the Qnap, you can take out the disks, insert in any Linux based box and recover your data, as they are just using standard Linux stuff wrapping around a very simple but powerful web user interface. While all basic things like online expansion or swapping drives against bigger ones are available here too of course. The ability to run pre-packaged and popular soft on the Qnap is also a huge plus (it is actually a server with a very powerful CPU one can ssh to).

prostuff1
Oct 30, 2009, 07:16 AM
I looked at the Drobo first but decided against it because of low network performance and proprietary file system. In fact if there happens anything to the Qnap, you can take out the disks, insert in any Linux based box and recover your data, as they are just using standard Linux stuff wrapping around a very simple but powerful web user interface. While all basic things like online expansion or swapping drives against bigger ones are available here too of course. To able to run pre-packaged and popular soft on the Qnap is also a huge plus (it is actually a server with a very powerful CPU one can even ssh to).

Forgive my ignorance if this next question sounds stupid but; how are you using the disks? Are they in a RAID5, RAID4, JBOD, or some other format?

I ask because if they are any of the above except the JBOD, then I am going to assume you are going to have a very "fun" time trying to get the drives to be recognized under a Linux Distro. The reason I say that is; If you already had the RAID4/5 set up and had to move it and not use the same "controller" that is in the QNAP, you are more then likely going to have to rebuild the array, thereby destroying the data on the drives.

The thing that attracted me to unRAID was the JBOD like approach and the User File System that "aggregated" same named top level directories. With unRAID you really can pull a disk out and mount it on any distro that can read the ReiserFS.

starcat
Oct 31, 2009, 03:53 AM
prostuff1, RAID5. There is no hardware based controller in the Qnap but simple SATA channels and it does Linux software RAID. Had the same with my other SuSE based Linux box which I moved away from as updates and maintenance was way more complex and time consuming. Qnap is a simple Linux whcih you may even expand on the cmd line if for some reason the Qpkg or Ipkg's available would not suffice one.

I probably have to say that the official answer would be that moving disks would not work, you must do this on your own risk and some Linux knowledge is necessary.

prostuff1
Oct 31, 2009, 08:32 AM
prostuff1, RAID5. There is no hardware based controller in the Qnap but simple SATA channels and it does Linux software RAID. Had the same with my other SuSE based Linux box which I moved away from as updates and maintenance was way more complex and time consuming. Qnap is a simple Linux whcih you may even expand on the cmd line if for some reason the Qpkg or Ipkg's available would not suffice one.

I probably have to say that the official answer would be that moving disks would not work, you must do this on your own risk and some Linux knowledge is necessary.

Sounds about right. I figured it was a linux software RAID5 but wanted to make sure. Since that is the case you are probably right in that you could, if need be, get the RAID up and going on another Linux distro with a little work and some knowledge.

MCRunning
Nov 19, 2009, 08:01 PM
Quick question :)

I have around 500 gb of media on an external and backup everything with another external. This seems like a tedious process. I'm looking into getting this:

http://www.amazon.com/3-5-Bay-Ext-USB-firewire/dp/B001N06UXC/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

I'm pretty new to RAID, now my question is if I use a RAID 1 setup, from my understanding everything is being mirrored from drive 1 to drive 2. What happens if a drive fails? Do I just pop it out and install a new drive? I'm not looking to go the drobo route. Thanks.

cantthinkofone
Nov 19, 2009, 08:04 PM
Quick question :)

I have around 500 gb of media on an external and backup everything with another external. This seems like a tedious process. I'm looking into getting this:

http://www.amazon.com/3-5-Bay-Ext-USB-firewire/dp/B001N06UXC/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

I'm pretty new to RAID, now my question is if I use a RAID 1 setup, from my understanding everything is being mirrored from drive 1 to drive 2. What happens if a drive fails? Do I just pop it out and install a new drive? I'm not looking to go the drobo route. Thanks.


Correct. One fails you put a new one in and click rebuild. But remember, RAID wont protect you from corruption. Only had it happen once with OS X, but i'm fairly sure Norton was behind it.

JPDeckers
Dec 5, 2009, 04:18 AM
Well, I have 5 of them in my QNAP 509, and yes, the initial problems were a hassle, but I've put the new firmware on them, and didn;t have any problems since. Yes, it sucks having to flash your HDDs, and yes, this shouldn't have happened, but IMHO they fixed it and are (again) an alternative.

Seems like yesterday I had to flash my 1.5TB Seagate drives.
Of the roughly 6 TB RAID-5 I set up about half a year ago, I only have 1 TB free space left, and looking at my DVD pile I haven't ripped yet, I will be in need of more space soon.

Hoping the 2.5TB's will be coming along shortly, not really looking forward to replace the 509 w/ an 809 or alike. Or maybe take the plunge and go for an 809 w/ 2.5TB's at once...

aced411
Dec 6, 2009, 05:04 PM
Hate to keep it simple....but I'm not about to invest in enterprise strength storage solutions when I can meet my needs with a couple external drives.

I use a 1TB external firewire drive for my entire iTunes library, with a 1.5TB external USB drive backing up everything via Time Machine. No lag with Apple TV. By the time I run out of space, 2 or 3TB drives will be cheap.

ascender
Dec 9, 2009, 07:25 AM
I'm still no further forward with how to solve this problem. The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking the solution is to replace the ATV with a Mac Mini and a locally attached massive HDD.

Then back this up to somewhere, perferably offsite. Instantly I solve the problems of streaming being slow or relying on a remote disk connected to another networked machine spinning up.

Unless there's a NAS device out there which supports audio & video streaming from iTunes as well as support for playlists etc. The Netgear ReadyNAS box and QNAP ones both look good, but I'm not sure on their full capabilities.

Also, when you have a NAS serving iTunes, how do you go about synching music to your iPod/iPhone?

Current setup:


Apple TV downstairs, hard-wired to AEBS.
iMac upstairs, hard-wired to AEBS, sharing a FW800-attached Drobo (4 * 1.5TB HDDs).


I'd rather not have the iMac on the whole time and I still think the Drobo is the weak link in the chain in terms of performance.

ascender
Dec 15, 2009, 03:44 AM
After a lot of time researching this, I've decided to go for a Mac Mini. The last straw was when ATV started playing up again over the weekend, refusing to play certain video files.

I'll go for a Mac Mini, connected to a Drobo over FW800. Mini will have Ethernet set to wake-on activity, so other machines can still connect to the iTunes library. The Mini has a surprisingly low power draw and the Drobo spins down after inactivity.

I love my Apple TV and when its working, its a brilliant piece of kit. But it still seems to have something programmed in to it which makes it throw a wobbly, just when you think its working perfectly. Even with an all-wired, all-Apple, up-to-date software and firmware setup, people are having problems. On the other hand, some people's setup works flawlessly no matter what they do to it.

In an ideal world, Apple would release some piece of software you could run on a NAS which would turn it in to a fully-functioned, proper iTunes home server. At the moment, any NAS solution I've read about seems to have some limitation or other, so its surprising Apple hasn't done something like this or even partnered with a firm to produce an official iTunes home server NAS box.

starcat
Dec 16, 2009, 08:14 AM
After a lot of time researching this, I've decided to go for a Mac Mini. The last straw was when ATV started playing up again over the weekend, refusing to play certain video files.

I'll go for a Mac Mini, connected to a Drobo over FW800. Mini will have Ethernet set to wake-on activity, so other machines can still connect to the iTunes library. The Mini has a surprisingly low power draw and the Drobo spins down after inactivity.

I love my Apple TV and when its working, its a brilliant piece of kit. But it still seems to have something programmed in to it which makes it throw a wobbly, just when you think its working perfectly. Even with an all-wired, all-Apple, up-to-date software and firmware setup, people are having problems. On the other hand, some people's setup works flawlessly no matter what they do to it.

In an ideal world, Apple would release some piece of software you could run on a NAS which would turn it in to a fully-functioned, proper iTunes home server. At the moment, any NAS solution I've read about seems to have some limitation or other, so its surprising Apple hasn't done something like this or even partnered with a firm to produce an official iTunes home server NAS box.

I would suggest you go with an unRAID and not Drobo. Get yourself the favor and buy a preconfigured system from lime-technology.com as they use the best parts available for the same price you can assemble then (so to speak, you do not pay the build). They will allow individual drives to failure and with two or more disk failures you won't loose all the array. They are able to spin up and down individual drives, not so with the Drobo or any other RAID5 based NASes out there. You would invest far too much in a Mini plus Drobo for what you would like to do.

eegger
Dec 17, 2009, 01:59 PM
I would suggest you go with an unRAID and not Drobo. Get yourself the favor and buy a preconfigured system from lime-technology.com as they use the best parts available for the same price you can assemble then (so to speak, you do not pay the build). They will allow individual drives to failure and with two or more disk failures you won't loose all the array. They are able to spin up and down individual drives, not so with the Drobo or any other RAID5 based NASes out there. You would invest far too much in a Mini plus Drobo for what you would like to do.


Sure spend $1200 on a server with no hard drives included, and still have no backup


I've just upgraded my Mac Pro with 2 2TB HD's for storage only, I have about 1.1TB Free , for backup I have 1 2TB drive that has a complete backup of one of the 2TB Drives and a 1TB External for backings up the 2nd 2TB Drive. So I have all my data mirrored onto drives that are not running. I wish I would have purchase 4 of the 2TB drive from newegg when they were $140 each but oh well.

I color label the files that are backed up and any new file is clearly visiable and I know what will have to be backup up ( data is only being added to one of the drives)

Total cost for 4TB of storage with 3TB backup

(3) 2TB HD's = 420
Case for external $40
(1) 1TB HD (2 X 500GB) = 80

Total $540 pretty hard to beat


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817347021&cm_re=macally-_-17-347-021-_-Product


Most people should just get 2 of the above cases and 4 HD and have one active and one as backup, forget the Raid/Unraid/Drobo/Servers, any other crap etc.

I did have 2 1.5TB and 2 1TB drives, I ebayed those when I got the 2TB drives and it only cost me less than $100 to upgrade to more spaces and less drives.

milton.sheaf
Dec 17, 2009, 11:13 PM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817347021&cm_re=macally-_-17-347-021-_-Product
You must be mistaken, that is a USB enclosure you've linked to here. USB sucks for data storage. It's horribly slow, and it sucks. If you're going to get an external disk, you want Firewire at a bare minimum. USB is just an embarrassment for attaching hard drives it's so slow.

Fw400 is quite noticeably faster than USB2, and Fw800 delivers more than double the speed of USB2. eSata is faster still. Leave those USB ports for the keyboards and mice, because well, that's about all they're good for.

starcat
Dec 18, 2009, 03:43 AM
Sure spend $1200 on a server with no hard drives included, and still have no backup


I've just upgraded my Mac Pro with 2 2TB HD's for storage only, I have about 1.1TB Free , for backup I have 1 2TB drive that has a complete backup of one of the 2TB Drives and a 1TB External for backings up the 2nd 2TB Drive. So I have all my data mirrored onto drives that are not running. I wish I would have purchase 4 of the 2TB drive from newegg when they were $140 each but oh well.

I color label the files that are backed up and any new file is clearly visiable and I know what will have to be backup up ( data is only being added to one of the drives)

Total cost for 4TB of storage with 3TB backup

(3) 2TB HD's = 420
Case for external $40
(1) 1TB HD (2 X 500GB) = 80

Total $540 pretty hard to beat


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817347021&cm_re=macally-_-17-347-021-_-Product


Most people should just get 2 of the above cases and 4 HD and have one active and one as backup, forget the Raid/Unraid/Drobo/Servers, any other crap etc.

I did have 2 1.5TB and 2 1TB drives, I ebayed those when I got the 2TB drives and it only cost me less than $100 to upgrade to more spaces and less drives.

You got what you pay for dude! Wish you luck with your USB enclosures!!

eegger
Dec 18, 2009, 07:52 AM
You got what you pay for dude! Wish you luck with your USB enclosures!!

Your right, I got what I payed for, the best solution, does everything yours does better and cheaper with a backup of the data,


USB is only for backup purposes, and can be taken off site, something your precious unraid system doesnt have/cant do!


True backups are not contained in the same system, so go ahead and spend another $1200 + HD's to backup your unraid.


Lets See $2400 for 2 unraids + HD's or $600, you choose

What a Deal:rolleyes: and cluster F_CK for most users that want a simple solution for a simple problem.

eegger
Dec 18, 2009, 08:02 AM
You must be mistaken, that is a USB enclosure you've linked to here. USB sucks for data storage. It's horribly slow, and it sucks. If you're going to get an external disk, you want Firewire at a bare minimum. USB is just an embarrassment for attaching hard drives it's so slow.

Fw400 is quite noticeably faster than USB2, and Fw800 delivers more than double the speed of USB2. eSata is faster still. Leave those USB ports for the keyboards and mice, because well, that's about all they're good for.

While you do state the obvious, that USB < FW400 < FW800 < Etc

There are many case that will work or have more features, the point is to just use an external case with large HD's Vs the Raid/Unraid Solutions


It's working just fine for me, speed isn't an issue, when your streaming files/backing up things,

mstrze
Dec 18, 2009, 08:07 AM
Guys,

We are talking iTunes libraries...not editing HD video here. USB 2.0 is plenty fast enough for music storage and to stream a video file for playback.

NightStorm
Dec 18, 2009, 08:42 AM
Guys,

We are talking iTunes libraries...not editing HD video here. USB 2.0 is plenty fast enough for music storage and to stream a video file for playback.

+1

prostuff1
Dec 18, 2009, 09:26 AM
Your right, I got what I payed for, the best solution, does everything yours does better and cheaper with a backup of the data,


USB is only for backup purposes, and can be taken off site, something your precious unraid system doesnt have/cant do!


True backups are not contained in the same system, so go ahead and spend another $1200 + HD's to backup your unraid.


Lets See $2400 for 2 unraids + HD's or $600, you choose

What a Deal:rolleyes: and cluster F_CK for most users that want a simple solution for a simple problem.

To each there own...

It is all up to the user and how he sees his needs. Obviously, you think your solution works best, while starcat and I lean towards a centralized solution like unRAID. And as for your "off site backup" jab to unRAID that can be thrown out the window if you install CrashPlan on the unRAID server. I use it to backup any "important" stuff I have to the cloud, that way I can get it back in the case of an emergency. That did not cost me $1,200 more, it only cost me $100 or so for the Family plan for a year. I use that family plan to backup my laptop, my sisters laptop, my parents desktop, and the unRAID server to the Crashplan cloud. I also use the Crashplan software to backup my laptop, my sisters laptop, and my parents desktop to the unRAID server, this in effect gives me MULTIPLE (3 really) copies of every computer I own (except the unRAID server). The best part is that if I only want to backup the other computers to the unRAID server then it is completely FREE to use. It is an inexpensive solution and short of having to wait for the data to upload is not hard to get running.

And for reference you do not need to spend $1200 on the server. The ones Lime-Technology sells are very high quality (and basically at cost for the pieces) and allow for future expansion very easily. I built my server and bought 2 750GB drives (best bang for the buck at the time I built) for right around, if not just shy of, the $600 you are so proud to tout. By watching for deals and the like I was able to build a server that now has 10 hard drives (2x2TB, 2x1.5TB, 1x1TB, 2x750GB, 2x500GB) which gives me right around 8.5TB of storage WITH parity protection against one failed drive.

I use my server for more then just iTunes though, so it was the correct choice for me. Mine houses my entire DVD collection in ISO format so that I can play any DVD on any computer and through the HTPC I have hooked up to my TV in the living room.

mstrze
Dec 18, 2009, 09:40 AM
I will add that having some sort of back-up solution 'in the cloud' is probably a good thing. Having an offsite backup is smart, especially for critical data.

ascender
Dec 18, 2009, 09:49 AM
I will add that having some sort of back-up solution 'in the cloud' is probably a good thing. Having an offsite backup is smart, especially for critical data.

I've been recommended Crash Plan for my computers, but I was wondering if there was any sort of off-site backup which will happily take 3TB+ of music & video files.

eegger
Dec 18, 2009, 09:56 AM
To each there own...

It is all up to the user and how he sees his needs. Obviously, you think your solution works best, while starcat and I lean towards a centralized solution like unRAID. And as for your "off site backup" jab to unRAID that can be thrown out the window if you install CrashPlan on the unRAID server. I use it to backup any "important" stuff I have to the cloud, that way I can get it back in the case of an emergency. That did not cost me $1,200 more, it only cost me $100 or so for the Family plan for a year. I use that family plan to backup my laptop, my sisters laptop, my parents desktop, and the unRAID server to the Crashplan cloud. I also use the Crashplan software to backup my laptop, my sisters laptop, and my parents desktop to the unRAID server, this in effect gives me MULTIPLE (3 really) copies of every computer I own (except the unRAID server). The best part is that if I only want to backup the other computers to the unRAID server then it is completely FREE to use. It is an inexpensive solution and short of having to wait for the data to upload is not hard to get running.

And for reference you do not need to spend $1200 on the server. The ones Lime-Technology sells are very high quality (and basically at cost for the pieces) and allow for future expansion very easily. I built my server and bought 2 750GB drives (best bang for the buck at the time I built) for right around, if not just shy of, the $600 you are so proud to tout. By watching for deals and the like I was able to build a server that now has 10 hard drives (2x2TB, 2x1.5TB, 1x1TB, 2x750GB, 2x500GB) which gives me right around 8.5TB of storage WITH parity protection against one failed drive.

I use my server for more then just iTunes though, so it was the correct choice for me. Mine houses my entire DVD collection in ISO format so that I can play any DVD on any computer and through the HTPC I have hooked up to my TV in the living room.


Wow you first got 1.5TB for about 600, and I get 7TB for $600

+1 to you my friend.


I stream to 2 ATV in my house,( it's called a network) I use my computer too, for more than Itunes too :rolleyes: It has my whole DVD/Music collection too:rolleyes: Good luck downloading 8.5TB from the cloud :rolleyes:


Lets See here

Large HD and Externals

HD Fails (has duplicate HD offline)
Case Fails, (Take HD out and Put in New Case, Any case will do)
Simple


Server or NAS/RAID

1 HD fails (Raid/Server OK)
2 or more ( Cry and hope you had it backed up)
NAS/Raid Fail ( need to replace with same controller or case,)
Server parts Die:(many parts can fail)
OS issues
Motherboard Died
Raid/HD Controller
PSU
Needs to run 24/7 in most cases
Complicated
Time and $$$$$$$$$
nothing more Gained

prostuff1
Dec 18, 2009, 10:31 AM
I've been recommended Crash Plan for my computers, but I was wondering if there was any sort of off-site backup which will happily take 3TB+ of music & video files.

Crashplan will happily store that much stuff, uploading all of that on the other hand will be painful. Crashplan does offer a way to send in some of your data to start an initial seed, so you are not backing up so much every single time.



Wow you first got 1.5TB for about 600, and I get 7TB for $600

+1 to you my friend.

Get off your **** high horse. I was trying to keep this civil but you seem to want to "poke the bull" so to speak.


I stream to 2 ATV in my house,( it's called a network) I use my computer too, for more than Itunes too :rolleyes: It has my whole DVD/Music collection too:rolleyes: Good luck downloading 8.5TB from the cloud :rolleyes:

If you would read the who post I made you would have read that I am only backing up a PORTION of the server. I don't need backups of my DVD rips, that is pointless. I have the DVD's and can re-rip them if need be, granted it would take a while and be a pain but it can be done.


Large HD and Externals

HD Fails (has duplicate HD offline)
Case Fails, (Take HD out and Put in New Case, Any case will do)
Simple

You do realize that I can do the EXACT same thing with my unRAID server right... I can just keep the drive in the server and disconnect the power to the drive so that it is in "cold storage"


Server or NAS/RAID

1 HD fails (Raid/Server OK)

correct

2 or more ( Cry and hope you had it backed up)

Not quite the case with unRAID. If 2 drives fail I can still get to the data that is on the other drives no problem

NAS/Raid Fail ( need to replace with same controller or case,)
Server parts Die:(many parts can fail)
OS issues
Motherboard Died
Raid/HD Controller
PSU

ALL are NONE ISSUES with unRAID as all I need to do is get a new part and start the server back up. A little work will need to be done to rearrange the drives probably so they are in the correct spot but once that is done the array can be started without a problem.

Needs to run 24/7 in most cases

Mine does indeed run 24/7 but there are people that have "Suspend to RAM" and S3 standby working with there unRAID servers. Not to mention that any drive that is not in use gets spun down to save power.

Complicated

Sure, I will give you a little leeway with that statement.

Time and $$$$$$$$$

At the initial outset, probably, but once it is set up there is not more work then what you do in juggling your drives back and forth to make sure you have a backup.

nothing more Gained

Again, in the eye of the beholder. I feel that having all the stuff on the NAS makes my life much simpler.

eegger
Dec 18, 2009, 10:37 AM
Crashplan will happily store that much stuff, uploading all of that on the other hand will be painful. Crashplan does offer a way to send in some of your data to start an initial seed, so you are not backing up so much every single time.



Get off your **** high horse. I was trying to keep this civil but you seem to want to "poke the bull" so to speak.


If you would read the who post I made you would have read that I am only backing up a PORTION of the server. I don't need backups of my DVD rips, that is pointless. I have the DVD's and can re-rip them if need be, granted it would take a while and be a pain but it can be done.


You do realize that I can do the EXACT same thing with my unRAID server right... I can just keep the drive in the server and disconnect the power to the drive so that it is in "cold storage"


correct

Not quite the case with unRAID. If 2 drives fail I can still get to the data that is on the other drives no problem

ALL are NONE ISSUES with unRAID as all I need to do is get a new part and start the server back up. A little work will need to be done to rearrange the drives probably so they are in the correct spot but once that is done the array can be started without a problem.

Mine does indeed run 24/7 but there are people that have "Suspend to RAM" and S3 standby working with there unRAID servers. Not to mention that any drive that is not in use gets spun down to save power.

Sure, I will give you a little leeway with that statement.

At the initial outset, probably, but once it is set up there is not more work then what you do in juggling your drives back and forth to make sure you have a backup.

Again, in the eye of the beholder. I feel that having all the stuff on the NAS makes my life much simpler.


If you call stating the obvious a Poke, Then

Poke

eegger
Dec 18, 2009, 11:02 AM
Crashplan will happily store that much stuff, uploading all of that on the other hand will be painful. Crashplan does offer a way to send in some of your data to start an initial seed, so you are not backing up so much every single time.

Why trust someone else with your data?

Get off your **** high horse. I was trying to keep this civil but you seem to want to "poke the bull" so to speak.

Poke

If you would read the who post I made you would have read that I am only backing up a PORTION of the server. I don't need backups of my DVD rips, that is pointless. I have the DVD's and can re-rip them if need be, granted it would take a while and be a pain but it can be done.

I guess Your Ok with Data Loss and waisting Days and Days of your Time


You do realize that I can do the EXACT same thing with my unRAID server right... I can just keep the drive in the server and disconnect the power to the drive so that it is in "cold storage"

But you are not, Then why use unraid


Not quite the case with unRAID. If 2 drives fail I can still get to the data that is on the other drives no problem

See above, you are not doing this = Data Loss

ALL are NONE ISSUES with unRAID as all I need to do is get a new part and start the server back up. A little work will need to be done to rearrange the drives probably so they are in the correct spot but once that is done the array can be started without a problem.

Time and $$ and no fun

Mine does indeed run 24/7 but there are people that have "Suspend to RAM" and S3 standby working with there unRAID servers. Not to mention that any drive that is not in use gets spun down to save power.

So whats your point?

Sure, I will give you a little leeway with that statement.

I agree

At the initial outset, probably, but once it is set up there is not more work then what you do in juggling your drives back and forth to make sure you have a backup.

Barely any of my time, 4 screws and done, time machine automated

how about you?

Again, in the eye of the beholder. I feel that having all the stuff on the NAS makes my life much simpler.

I feel the same way having my stuff on Hard Drives too

starcat
Dec 19, 2009, 03:34 AM
prostuff1, why trying eeger to help -- by reading his comments it is obvious that he doesn't need the help as he knows everything (or actually not judging by his comments). Just let him do his USB stuff and have fun with it.

ascender
Dec 20, 2009, 04:00 AM
The reason I mentioned Crash Plan or similar is that you could have 20 servers in your house with mirrored copies of your data, but they could be worthless in the event of a fire or other awful event.

prostuff1
Dec 20, 2009, 04:55 PM
The reason I mentioned Crash Plan or similar is that you could have 20 servers in your house with mirrored copies of your data, but they could be worthless in the event of a fire or other awful event.

Agreed, and that is the reason I backup the important stuff to CrashPlan. You could as easily set up another unRAID server and use Crashplan to backup to it, for free. You only have to pay to use there cloud service, everything else is free.

Like I said, 3TB over any Internet connection is going to take forever. CrashPlan allows you to seed a certain amount and then backup the rest. You could build another server, copy it locally, then move it off site and use Crashplan then to keep it in sync.

starcat
Dec 21, 2009, 02:38 AM
The reason I mentioned Crash Plan or similar is that you could have 20 servers in your house with mirrored copies of your data, but they could be worthless in the event of a fire or other awful event.

In that case everything is insured and you easily get replacement including components, media, etc, except for personal pics and videos for which one should have a 2nd copy in a different place, but not on a internet backup platform, because if you read carefuly they conditions, you will notice that there is no guarantee whatsoever for your data and especially not for the long term.

GermanSuplex
Jan 4, 2010, 03:44 AM
Hate to keep it simple....but I'm not about to invest in enterprise strength storage solutions when I can meet my needs with a couple external drives.

I use a 1TB external firewire drive for my entire iTunes library, with a 1.5TB external USB drive backing up everything via Time Machine. No lag with Apple TV. By the time I run out of space, 2 or 3TB drives will be cheap.

Yeah, if that's where you're at now, externals should suffice just fine.

I started off a few years back with an 80GB drive and thought I was set for life. Of course, a year or two later I went to a 250GB drive, then a 500GB, then a 1TB, and now I'm out of space and trying to figure out what to do next. They make 2TB externals, but I figures at the rate I'm at that will be filled in 6 months.

The externals USB drives have done well for me for a few years. As of now, I'm limiting my media on my 1TB drive and backing it up to another 1TB drive, but I've also got my lossless files on a separate 500GB drive (it too backed up to another 500GB drive). It's getting to be a chore and I need everything in one iTunes library and to be able to not worry about backing it up manually. A drobo with three or four 2TB drives sounds nice, but the proprietary format is a bit offputting... it's something I'll have to think of.

eegger
Jan 4, 2010, 09:50 AM
Yeah, if that's where you're at now, externals should suffice just fine.

I started off a few years back with an 80GB drive and thought I was set for life. Of course, a year or two later I went to a 250GB drive, then a 500GB, then a 1TB, and now I'm out of space and trying to figure out what to do next. They make 2TB externals, but I figures at the rate I'm at that will be filled in 6 months.

The externals USB drives have done well for me for a few years. As of now, I'm limiting my media on my 1TB drive and backing it up to another 1TB drive, but I've also got my lossless files on a separate 500GB drive (it too backed up to another 500GB drive). It's getting to be a chore and I need everything in one iTunes library and to be able to not worry about backing it up manually. A drobo with three or four 2TB drives sounds nice, but the proprietary format is a bit offputting... it's something I'll have to think of.

Storage needs are always growing,

Look for a External Case that holds 2 Hard drives, if you put 2 2TB HD's in there you have a 4TB Volume in one case. Double it and you have a backup. as you need more, you just replace with bigger hard drives over the next year or two as your need surpass the current setup

Even if you have a Drobo/unraid, you dont have a backup, you have some safety in hard drive failure. but not data failure !!!!!!!

DAMAC3
Jan 4, 2010, 02:30 PM
Wow you first got 1.5TB for about 600, and I get 7TB for $600

+1 to you my friend.


I stream to 2 ATV in my house,( it's called a network) I use my computer too, for more than Itunes too :rolleyes: It has my whole DVD/Music collection too:rolleyes: Good luck downloading 8.5TB from the cloud :rolleyes:


Lets See here

Large HD and Externals

HD Fails (has duplicate HD offline)
Case Fails, (Take HD out and Put in New Case, Any case will do)
Simple


Server or NAS/RAID

1 HD fails (Raid/Server OK)
2 or more ( Cry and hope you had it backed up)
NAS/Raid Fail ( need to replace with same controller or case,)
Server parts Die:(many parts can fail)
OS issues
Motherboard Died
Raid/HD Controller
PSU
Needs to run 24/7 in most cases
Complicated
Time and $$$$$$$$$
nothing more Gained

Based on your comments it looks like you really don't understand unRAID, its advantages/disadvantages, features, etc. I spent about $200 on my system (minus the drives). It is capable of handling eight drives with out adding any controller cards. I only have 2 2TB drives and 2 1TB drives currently, but I will probably be adding drives as my Blu-ray collection is growing fast. This type of system isn't for everyone, but it has so many advantages over the method you are using. It is just a matter of whether those advantages are important and/or necessary for what you are doing with your data.

Your storage method isn't dumb by any means, but your attitude toward what other people are doing with there data is very dumb. Just about every one of the negatives you listed against "Server or NAS/RAID" shows a misunderstanding of the system.

It isn't that hard to set up (I knew very little programming or Linux commands when I did it).

If two or more hard drives fail then you lose part of the data on those two drives (what happens if your drive and its backup fails?).

If any part dies, you replace the part and the system is back to normal without any changes to the OS (which runs off of a flash drive; I have a backup of my flash drive as well).

The file system is not linked to any controller or RAID card, so you don't have to go finding a replacement exactly like what you had.

It isn't that complicated. Surprisingly, it is very simple and reliable after you set it up (which is no more difficult that building your own PC).

You could argue that it saves time from continually hooking up drives for archival purposes. The redundancy is done automatically. I have already had drive failures, and it was a very easy recovery.

You gain quite a bit over a simple external drive system. Your data is not tied to any specific computer. I have found that sharing your data to both Windows and Mac systems with unRAID is so much simpler than using external drives connected to one system. And are you saying it is simpler to keep up with all archiving of drives rather than just letting a system do it for you?

I'm glad you found a system that works for your needs, but that doesn't mean what works for you is even close to the best system for everyone else. I set up a Mac Mini home theater system with Plex for a friend of a friend so he could house his large DVD collection on some type of storage system and use Plex as the interface. I decided not to go the unRAID for him because he needs something very simple, so I set up a DROBO for him. It met his needs well. Either of those systems is superior to external drives. Otherwise, people wouldn't pay for them. But it comes down to what someone needs.