Useless Survey: 91% of Japanese Will Not Buy 'iPhone'

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Making the rounds today is a rather useless survey (http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20080618/153419/) which claims that 91% of Japanese will not buy the 'iPhone'. While I may have a personal bias against (http://normalkid.com/2007/09/20/stupid-surveys-obsessed-with-being-online/) online surveys and their overreaching conclusions, this one is particularly unhelpful.

Much of the online press are describing this as a negative story, suggesting that 91% of the Japanese not being interested in the iPhone is a disappointing statistic. AlleyInsider (http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/6/apple_iphone_3g_japan) spins it perhaps slightly more appropriately, reporting that an impressive 9% of all Japanese are going to buy an iPhone. 9% of the Japanese population represents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan) 11 million people, suggesting that Japan alone could be responsible for Apple's 10 million target mark this year.

Of course, neither conclusion is valid since it's not clear from the report how participants had been selected, making it impossible to generalize to the entire Japanese population.

Another disappointing aspect of the survey is that it was conducted before the iPhone 3G was officially announced, which means answers were based on knowledge and pricing of the original iPhone which has never been available for sale in Japan.

That being said, it's not a foregone conclusion that the iPhone will see success in Japan. Wired explored (http://www.wired.com/gadgets/wireless/news/2008/06/japan_phones) the dramatically different market mobile market found in Japan: Japan is a culture of spec sheets. When consumers go to electronics stores to buy a cellphone, they frequently line up the specifications side by side to compare them before deciding which one to buy.Though, it appears that many customers only use a very small percentage of features in their mobile phones in Japan. It remains to be seen if the interface and relative simplicity of the iPhone will be able to gain marketshare in Japan.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2008/06/18/useless-survey-91-of-japanese-will-not-buy-iphone/)

[bloodycape]

My understanding is many Japanese people prefer if their device has some sort of DMB or 1SEG TV option as that is like a huge thing there. After all Sony, Toshiba and others offers mp3 and cellphones exclusively for their home markets with 1Seg TV option. But, I could be totally off.

[dfnj123]

I would like to see this data redone now

[BornAgainMac]

I am curious how other Japanese phones handle their advanced language characters? Seems like the iPhone will handle it.

[mavis]

I think 9% is a huge number, I'm sure Apple (or any company!) would love to see that kind of penetration in every market ...

I doubt we'll see that here, but so far there has been massive interest in the iPhone - Softbank's call center is getting swamped with information requests, shops that started accepting pre-orders are seeing huge numbers of people signing up on waiting lists, and the iPhone has been in the news (TV, newspaper) regularly since it was announced. Comparisons to other, high-end Japanese phones have been overwhelmingly positive (in favor of the iPhone) based not only on price, but user interface and 'coolness' ...

The iPhone is going to be huge here. I can't wait!! :D

[Willis]

this will be interesting to see pan out... 9% = ~11M people... thats an awful lot of people. And because that was prior to the lower price points, I'll put money on it being an even higher percentage.

[GutBomb]

Targeting Internet users aged primarily 20 to 49, iSHARE asked questions about their intention to purchase an iPhone, as well as other questions and received 402 responses over the Internet.

Did anyone actually read the article?

It's not 9% of all of japan planning to buy an iphone. It's 9% of people who choose to answer a poll about cell phones that plan to buy an iphone. And they only polled 402 people.

So congrats. 40 people plan to buy the iphone in japan.

statistics are fun. (and useless)

The fact that they could only get 402 responses to an internet forum targeting internet users aged 18-49 says to me that the interest in the iphone is very low, and what interest there is, is pretty negative.

[Decrepit]

Yes, our technology is seriously behind that of the Japanese.

The density of their population has allowed certain technologies to be adopted quickly.

If Japanese or Korean companies had to offer the capabilities they offer now, but across the width of North America, things would have moved more slowly.

[pgifford]

Did anyone actually read the article?

It's not 9% of all of japan planning to buy an iphone. It's 9% of people who choose to answer a poll about cell phones that plan to buy an iphone. And they only polled 402 people.

So congrats. 40 people plan to buy the iphone in japan.

statistics are fun. (and useless)

I don't think you understand how polls and statistics work. Obviously they can't poll everyone in Japan. They can extrapolate results within a certain margin of error from a sampling of the population - the more people they poll, the smaller the margin of error. How do you think they come up with results from other polls like the president's popularity ratings? Nobody I know has ever been asked if they approve or disapprove of the president, yet they can say that 70 percent of Americans disapprove of him.

[GutBomb]

I don't think you understand how polls and statistics work. Obviously they can't poll everyone in Japan. They can extrapolate results within a certain margin of error from a sampling of the population - the more people they poll, the smaller the margin of error. How do you think they come up with results from other polls like the president's popularity ratings? Nobody I know has ever been asked if they approve or disapprove of the president, yet they can say that 70 percent of Americans disapprove of him.

I understand fine. My point was that 402 people that have enough of an interest in cell phones to respond to a poll about them is not a sufficient sample size to say what japan wants or not. The statistics are completely useless. To equate 9% of responses to a poll that 402 people responded to to 11 million people is ludicrous.

I said 40 people to point out the ridiculousness of people wetting themselves about 11 million iphone sales in japan. I know full well it's going to fall somewhere in between 40 and 11 million, but i am pretty damn sure it's gonna be a lot closer to 40 than 11 million.

[pgifford]

I understand fine. My point was that 402 people is not a sufficient sample size to say what japan wants or not. The statistics are completely useless. To equate 9% of responses to a poll that 402 people responded to to 11 million people is ludicrous.

I said 40 people to point out the ridiculousness of people wetting themselves about 11 million iphone sales in japan. I know full well it's going to fall somewhere in between 40 and 11 million, but i am pretty damn sure it's gonna be a lot closer to 40 than 11 million.

it just means that there will be a bigger margin of error. So instead of 9% it may be 4% or 1% or 12% or 20%, etc. I think they should at least do the survey again with the new iphone, pricing and the fact that it'll actually be sold in Japan - it may be incentive enough to buy one.

[magiic]

I am member on another forum called Cheap Ass Gamers and the owner/host of their podcast lives in Tokyo and has been for the past few years. He seems to think the Japanese will be all over the iPhone simply due to the huge market for phones of that nature and the already huge ammount of iPod owners. Just thought I'd chuck that out there.

[arn]

I said 40 people to point out the ridiculousness of people wetting themselves about 11 million iphone sales in japan. I know full well it's going to fall somewhere in between 40 and 11 million, but i am pretty damn sure it's gonna be a lot closer to 40 than 11 million.

I think you missed the point of this story. "Useless Survey"

arn

[GutBomb]

I'd like to also point out that there haven't even been 11 million iphones sold worldwide yet after being around for a year. I highly doubt one country (that takes phones seriously and hasmany more advanced phones than the iphone) is going to double the world's current sales figures.

I think you missed the point of this story. "Useless Survey"

arn

I was commenting on the comments here, not the story.

[gcortega]

The iPhone technology in Japan is so 3 years ago :p

[jcbandxi]

Perhaps setting the context helps make the survey completely meaningless?


iPhones are GSM only
Japan does not have a GSM network, they have CDMA networks
Only Japanese traveling oversease to the US and Europe could use the iPhone as a phone


There is very little practical reason for someone living in Japan to buy an iPhone to use as a phone.

AT&T and Apple negotiated a deal that precludes Apple from manufacturing CDMA phones for five years (to 2012).

[matt archbold]

When are people going to realize that 30% of these online surveys are filled with bulls**t 80% of the time?

[arn]

Perhaps setting the context helps make the survey completely meaningless?


iPhones are GSM only
Japan does not have a GSM network, they have CDMA networks
Only Japanese traveling oversease to the US and Europe could use the iPhone as a phone


There is very little practical reason for someone living in Japan to buy an iPhone to use as a phone.

AT&T and Apple negotiated a deal that precludes Apple from manufacturing CDMA phones for five years (to 2012).

Um... the iPhone 3G is coming to Japan. July 11th.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2008/06/09softbank.html

arn

[jettoblack]

Personally, my guess is that the iPhone will be somewhat popular among foreigners (especially Westerners) living in Japan, but not so popular among Japanese people. Even die-hard :apple: Mac & iPod fans are mostly giving the iPhone a pass here.

If you read some of the early reports from the Japanese press, one of the things they are all angry about is the fact that the iPhone has handwriting recognition for Chinese characters when in Chinese language mode, but won't do it in Japanese mode (even though they use mostly the same characters). Japan and China are like fierce "sibling rivals," and giving a very useful feature to the Chinese but omitting it for the Japanese without any explanation is like a slap in the face to a lot of Japanese people.

The lack of MMS, which is heavily used by all the other Japanese celphone providers, as well as the lack of video calling (not super popular here but a fairly important checkbox feature to have), Felica/"Saifu Keitai" (aka Wallet Phone, RFID money card/train pass), and 1seg TV (mobile HD broadcast offered by all major TV networks), results in the iPhone comparing poorly to even the free throwaway phones you can get from any of the Japanese providers.

[Bob Knob]

The cell phones in Japan are a vast improvement over the crap we in the US have been force fed by our cell providers. So in Japan the iPhone is cool, just not earth shattering.

[swingerofbirch]

Um... the iPhone 3G is coming to Japan. July 11th.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2008/06/09softbank.html

arn

Japan does not have GSM networks. The reason the new iPhone will work is because it also runs on UMTS/HSDPA networks (850, 1900, 2100 MHz). To my understanding, the current iPhone does not work in Japan.

[ben5959]

60% of the time, it works every time

[gkarris]

Great...

The XBOX doesn't really sell there, either... :eek:

[cloudnine]

Seems a bit (overly) biased and opinionated to call the survey useless. Most people (outside of MacRumors regulars) would say that most page 1 rumors are useless. Yeah, they could have said the 9% part instead of the 91%, but it all equals the same thing.

[arn]

Japan does not have GSM networks. The reason the new iPhone will work is because it also runs on UMTS/HSDPA networks (850, 1900, 2100 MHz). To my understanding, the current iPhone does not work in Japan.

fair enough, but the context of the survey was after the Softbank announced that they would be bringing the iPhone to Japan, but before the official WWDC launch.

arn

[arn]

Seems a bit (overly) biased and opinionated to call the survey useless. Most people (outside of MacRumors regulars) would say that most page 1 rumors are useless. Yeah, they could have said the 9% part instead of the 91%, but it all equals the same thing.

That's not why its useless.

It's useless because you can't draw either (9% of 91%) conclusion from it. You can't draw any meaningful conclusion from this survey.

The rough equivalent would be citing this poll: http://www.macpolls.com/?poll_id=39 to say that 91.61% of the world population is male.

arn

[Mitch1984]

What's the big deal about having a user replaceable battery, it only matters if you keep your phone long enough to need to change it??

[Willis]

The rough equivalent would be citing this poll: http://www.macpolls.com/?poll_id=39 to say that 91.61% of the world population is male.

arn

ahahaha, that has to be the best poll... class

[GutBomb]

What's the big deal about having a user replaceable battery, it only matters if you keep your phone long enough to need to change it??

Or if your battery goes bad you don't have to send your phone in for repair/replace your whole phone, you just put a new battery in.

[jsemig]

I don't think that the replaceable battery is such a big deal in Japan. Most people here (I currently live in Japan) use external second batteries to recharge their phones. You can already buy the external second batteries for the Ipods so no problem here with the Iphone.
I'll be in the line at the softbank store on the 11th.

[Analog Kid]

Thanks, Arn, for a classic example of marketing run amok. Aside from the unknown population sample, is the fact that "not planning to buy right now" has been twisted to mean "won't buy" while the 9% who are planning to buy appear to be viewed as maybes, and the statement that a shift from 9.6% to 8.9% over a sample size of 400 is an indication that demand is "weakening and going negative".

I see this as another hatchet job by Japanese consumer electronics companies (and their trade mags). They did the same thing over the MacBook Air-- "we would have built it better". There's a definite rivalry between the Japanese makers and the one American company that can match their attention to style.

I don't think you understand how polls and statistics work. Obviously they can't poll everyone in Japan. They can extrapolate results within a certain margin of error from a sampling of the population - the more people they poll, the smaller the margin of error. How do you think they come up with results from other polls like the president's popularity ratings? Nobody I know has ever been asked if they approve or disapprove of the president, yet they can say that 70 percent of Americans disapprove of him.
I'm not sure you fully understand how polls work... If the poll was taken over the internet, promoted through, say, something like Google AdSense which would make it turn up with higher prevalence on sites such as macrumors.co.jp, then the results can not be generalized in the way you describe.

The fact that this was an internet poll makes it suspect to begin with. The fact that it was an internet poll that only pulled in 400 responses makes it pretty much useless.

To the point that this posting should probably be called "Useless Survey"...
Did anyone actually read the article?

It's not 9% of all of japan planning to buy an iphone. It's 9% of people who choose to answer a poll about cell phones that plan to buy an iphone. And they only polled 402 people.

So congrats. 40 people plan to buy the iphone in japan.

statistics are fun. (and useless)

The fact that they could only get 402 responses to an internet forum targeting internet users aged 18-49 says to me that the interest in the iphone is very low, and what interest there is, is pretty negative.
So, I was in full agreement with you when you were saying you can't draw any conclusions from this poll. Where I started to disagree is where you started to draw conclusions from this poll... ;)

[jcbandxi]

Japan does not have GSM networks. The reason the new iPhone will work is because it also runs on UMTS/HSDPA networks (850, 1900, 2100 MHz). To my understanding, the current iPhone does not work in Japan.

Thanks for elaborating and correcting my misunderstanding.

Question 1 - does that mean that the 3G iPhone will work in both the US and Japan by supporting enough bands?

Question 2 - if there is no fall back to a 2G network in Japan, will that burn through the battery faster as a result?

[jsemig]

Thanks for elaborating and correcting my misunderstanding.

Question 1 - does that mean that the 3G iPhone will work in both the US and Japan by supporting enough bands?

Question 2 - if there is no fall back to a 2G network in Japan, will that burn through the battery faster as a result?

Q1: Yes, the iPhone 3g will work in Japan
Q2: Ofcause, you'll only have 5 hours of talk time (with 2G you have up to 10)

[pgifford]

I'm not sure you fully understand how polls work... If the poll was taken over the internet, promoted through, say, something like Google AdSense which would make it turn up with higher prevalence on sites such as macrumors.co.jp, then the results can not be generalized in the way you describe.

The fact that this was an internet poll makes it suspect to begin with. The fact that it was an internet poll that only pulled in 400 responses makes it pretty much useless.

To the point that this posting should probably be called "Useless Survey"...

So, I was in full agreement with you when you were saying you can't draw any conclusions from this poll. Where I started to disagree is where you started to draw conclusions from this poll... ;)

the fact that more people of a particular demographic are responding to the poll is just another factor that increases the margin of error. Just like arn's example of the useless gender poll, it's taking a sampling of a particular group of people and not taking into account anyone else. Unless you poll everyone in the world (and they answer honestly), there will be some margin of error.

[ilflyya]

Mark Twain once said, "...There are lies, there are damn lies, and there are statistics..."

I like how they tout the data like it is current. It wasn't based on the iPhone 3G? Then who cares?

This is just like how Sprint is promoting their "iPhone Killer" Instinct. Their little videos show their new phone going up against the first iPhone. (Gotta read the fine print) They even show that the iPhone doesn't have true GPS. We're talking about a new promotion of the product. They just came out with something that may already be obsolete against the iPhone 3G.

Lets keep it current with the stats:-)

[Roniniku]

One major reason why "those polled" said they won't buy an iPhone is partly because most Japanese have never even heard of Apple or the iPhone. During the opening of the Ginza Apple Store, the most common questions I heard while waiting in line were, "What is Apple?" and "What is this line for?" (people there love to line up if others are doing so). They are so insular and incredibly techno-tarded; not an insult, just the truth. Japan exports a lot of tech but the people are very uneducated about technology and computers in general. As far as them "lining up specs" when buying a phone, that's hardly true either. The major push is for higher res cameras; second to that is the overall cosmetic design. Young girls push the phone market more than any other demo. Smart phones in Japan are a rarity. Through living there for 4 years I have yet to see one Blackberry, Treo etc...never mind any phones from Motorola or Nokia. If 9% did actually feel interested in buying an iPhone...or had even heard of the iPhone before the survey, then I would call that a MASSIVE success.

[(L)]

Personally, my guess is that the iPhone will be somewhat popular among foreigners (especially Westerners) living in Japan, but not so popular among Japanese people. Even die-hard :apple: Mac & iPod fans are mostly giving the iPhone a pass here.

If you read some of the early reports from the Japanese press, one of the things they are all angry about is the fact that the iPhone has handwriting recognition for Chinese characters when in Chinese language mode, but won't do it in Japanese mode (even though they use mostly the same characters). Japan and China are like fierce "sibling rivals," and giving a very useful feature to the Chinese but omitting it for the Japanese without any explanation is like a slap in the face to a lot of Japanese people.

The lack of MMS, which is heavily used by all the other Japanese celphone providers, as well as the lack of video calling (not super popular here but a fairly important checkbox feature to have), Felica/"Saifu Keitai" (aka Wallet Phone, RFID money card/train pass), and 1seg TV (mobile HD broadcast offered by all major TV networks), results in the iPhone comparing poorly to even the free throwaway phones you can get from any of the Japanese providers.

Yes. The iPhone's character recognition, no matter how good for having been made by an American company, will by nature of the touch screen have to operate differently from that which people are used to in Japan. Because advanced features have been over here in Japan so long, people are accustomed to doing and expecting things that they will miss or find strange on the iPhone. I own the old iPhone for use in the US, but whereas American smartphones have a following that the iPhone targeted, in Japan those smartphones look too stupid for words. So the iPhone is a cool phone that can do some calendar and email and that kind of thing well, but as you point out, high-end cells for the Japanese serve as credit card, train ticket, TV, mp3 player, and so on....

The saving grace, if any, for the iPhone might be that among young people, especially girls, there is a recent phenomenon of having multiple cells. I'm not even sure exactly why, other than that they can (esp college kids earning money for the first time). As an accessorizing phone they use primarily as an iPod and to chat for cheap/free with a girlfriend/boyfriend or family or other package deal, there may be enough demand that the iPhone doesn't just flop completely.

That lacking the handwriting recognition... what were they thinking?

[chairguru22]

even the iPhone is years behind in terms of cell phone technology in Japan. They have 8MP cameras in their phones, high-res games, touch screens AND dual keypads.

Will the iPhone allow people to access their anime/gameshows/hentai? How about interactivity with their Pachinko machines? Heck, picture messages from one japanese schoolgirl to another? Video conferencing on the train?

Forget the iPhone, the entire US cell phone market is years behind.

[(L)]

One major reason why "those polled" said they won't buy an iPhone is partly because most Japanese have never even heard of Apple or the iPhone. During the opening of the Ginza Apple Store, the most common questions I heard while waiting in line were, "What is Apple?" and "What is this line for?" (people there love to line up if others are doing so). They are so insular and incredibly techno-tarded; not an insult, just the truth. Japan exports a lot of tech but the people are very uneducated about technology and computers in general. As far as them "lining up specs" when buying a phone, that's hardly true either. The major push is for higher res cameras; second to that is the overall cosmetic design. Young girls push the phone market more than any other demo. Smart phones in Japan are a rarity. Through living there for 4 years I have yet to see one Blackberry, Treo etc...never mind any phones from Motorola or Nokia. If 9% did actually feel interested in buying an iPhone...or had even heard of the iPhone before the survey, then I would call that a MASSIVE success.

Didn't Motorola make the RAZR? That stuff was over here a while back.

I don't fully disagree with the Japanese being "techno-tarded," although the word sounds silly and a little like you're disparaging people who aren't computer geeks or, as the word suggests, don't know techno music. :confused:

As you say, girls push the market, and businessmen just want to use the damn phone (smartphones=farce in Japan), basically, so the iPhone has no clear target demographic other than Mac users, if that. There are many computer geeks who love to figure out tech stuff that might lament the lack of tech education, but these are the same people that can stand to figure out windows computers, and besides, Apple has always been running the line that computers should be intuitive and users should not have to educate themselves, as you put it.

I'm afraid 9% is pretty ambitious. Probably less than 1%, my guess is less than 0.5%. But then, I'm afraid it'll be laughed out. After all, what you call insular is a tech culture that, though perhaps not everyone is a geek, has its own strengths, history, and ubiquitousness. For Apple to come out with something that works great compared to crappy US phones and then slap some add-on software to make it at least usable in other countries... let me put it this way -- the American way is tech-tarded.

[(L)]

That's not why its useless.

It's useless because you can't draw either (9% of 91%) conclusion from it. You can't draw any meaningful conclusion from this survey.

The rough equivalent would be citing this poll: http://www.macpolls.com/?poll_id=39 to say that 91.61% of the world population is male.

arn

My conclusion is that polls are dumb. Even when done right. Because the people that do polls are interested in the results. So they'll screw it up. And the people who answer the poll wanted to answer. So they're biased.

I think we should get unwilling interrogators to torture unsuspecting victims for their market wants.

[kabunaru]

The iPhone is not advanced enough for the Japanese... :rolleyes:

[Rocketman]

Apple has invested a huge amount of labor and mindshare to "check the box" on Japanese access to iPhone. If only this is a "stretch goal" with the same uptake as countries flocking to the platform, that 9% could readily ramp to 18% or 27%.

But even if not, who cares? The rest of the world will make it a small element of the noise.

Rocketman

[Doctor Q]

Japan is a culture of spec sheets. When consumers go to electronics stores to buy a cellphone, they frequently line up the specifications side by side to compare them before deciding which one to buy.
If only Americans would do this more often, the additional competitive pressure might lead to better products. When we base our purchase decisions only on ads, without looking at what we are getting, we often aren't getting the best product for the job.

Does that mean we can't consider how cool an Apple product is? Not at all. Just put it on the iPhone spec sheet:design: Apple=elegant, others=acceptable
coolness factor: Apple=huge, others=medium
incredibly easy application shopping?: Apple=yes, others=maybe or noThen look at all the specs, side-by-side, and see if the iPhone is for you.

[Intosh]

It's 8.9% of *respondents*, which are "Internet users aged primarily 20 to 49". So, it's not 8.9% of the entire Japanese population. Nice try.

By the way, I remember there were several Apple-favorable internet surveys published not so long ago but Apple fanatics were all welcoming those without question. Isn't fanboism idiotic?

[appleguru1]

That lacking the handwriting recognition... what were they thinking?

While HWR for Japanese isn't there yet, the iPhone does support two other VERY intuitive Japanese input methods (intelligent romaji entry and a kana pad):

http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2008/05/05/japanese-input-keyboards-on-iphone-2-0/

The kana pad is very intuitive and works the exact same way text entry does on current japanese cell phones.

In the words of someone (else) from japan:

Yeah, this is GREAT news for a Japanese release - the existing entry method SUCKS big time, incredibly slow and cumbersome (mainly due to the ridiculously tiny conversion selection area) ... These new entry systems are light years ahead of what are currently available and will really help to guarantee a successful iPhone launch here in Japan. Kudos, Apple!

[websyndicate]

Wow! who the F cares.........?

[shedder]

I hope iPhone will sell poorly in Japan, so there will be no shortages and I can get one easily next month..

[DMann]

What's the big deal about having a user replaceable battery, it only matters if you keep your phone long enough to need to change it??

They are pretty easy to replace anyway, all for for $7.00+shipping:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10506~r.96035782

[Fukui]

Felica/"Saifu Keitai" (aka Wallet Phone, RFID money card/train pass), and 1seg TV (mobile HD broadcast offered by all major TV networks), results in the iPhone comparing poorly to even the free throwaway phones you can get from any of the Japanese providers.

Thats basically it IMO. No OneSeg, no Suica/Keitai does it in for some... we'll see it probably can sell to those who don't need it in thier phone...... but there are lots of region specific features.... lots of things like "smilies" (Japanese users have literally hundreds of facial expressions using characters and images), language prediction.... we'll see how softbank can customize things for Japan..... too bad they couldn't negotiate a felica chip in that contract......

[Analog Kid]

the fact that more people of a particular demographic are responding to the poll is just another factor that increases the margin of error. Just like arn's example of the useless gender poll, it's taking a sampling of a particular group of people and not taking into account anyone else. Unless you poll everyone in the world (and they answer honestly), there will be some margin of error.
A poll's error margin is related to the population being studied. In this case, the population being studied is not "Japan", it's some subset of Japan. We don't know what subset. If there is any correlation between the selecting criteria for the subset and the response (people who clicked on "win a free iPhone" for example, or people who visited the Au forums) then the results are almost impossible to generalize. You'd need to know how to convert the likelihoods of a response from the sub-population to the larger population which might be achievable through good historical data if you can show the relationship has been consistent enough over time-- but no such historical data can be available for a product this young.

Ask ten Texans what country they'd most like to live and raise kids in. Then tell me how to calculate the margins for error on the question "What country do most people in the world find most appealing?"

Ask 400 white men if they've ever been discriminated against and then tell me how many black women have been.

Margins for error are statistically rigorous values, just like the rest of the results. Almost all standard formulas assume a truly random sample. If you don't have a random sample, then you need to know both the correlation values between populations and *their* margins for error.
If only Americans would do this more often, the additional competitive pressure might lead to better products. When we base our purchase decisions only on ads, without looking at what we are getting, we often aren't getting the best product for the job.

Does that mean we can't consider how cool an Apple product is? Not at all. Just put it on the iPhone spec sheet:design: Apple=elegant, others=acceptable
coolness factor: Apple=huge, others=medium
incredibly easy application shopping?: Apple=yes, others=maybe or noThen look at all the specs, side-by-side, and see if the iPhone is for you.
It's not what you'd expect. It's not competitive pressure, it's a checklist. When you sit down to design a new product, you pull out the top three last generation products and make a list of all their features. You take the union of those sets, add a feature or two for uniqueness (which will then become standard across the board next generation) and make generational improvements on everything else.

No sense suggesting that the feature buried 3 menus down get removed. Oh no-- we *must* have that. All phones have that and it is most important that this feature be included.

They do make it work somehow though. There's no denying that their consumer electronics are top tier. Part of that is because so many of those features are included but buried out of the way. It passes the checklist test, but minimizes interference.

This is a totally different strategy to what Apple pursues. Apple takes the list of common features, decides what can be made to coexist in a usable way, and then jettisons the rest. The result is a device with fewer features, but whose features are all used.

[Analog Kid]

Thats basically it IMO. No OneSeg, no Suica/Keitai does it in for some... we'll see it probably can sell to those who don't need it in thier phone...... but there are lots of region specific features.... lots of things like "smilies" (Japanese users have literally hundreds of facial expressions using characters and images), language prediction.... we'll see how softbank can customize things for Japan..... too bad they couldn't negotiate a felica chip in that contract......
Can those features be added as applications or do they require hardware support.

The TV stuff requires hardware, obviously...

[mavis]

too bad they couldn't negotiate a felica chip in that contract......You really think Softbank would be willing to foot the bill for a piece of hardware that would go into EVERY iPhone in the world but that can only be used here in Japan? It doesn't make sense. As for the lack of OneSEG and Felica being turnoffs, I guess we'll have to wait and see - but the pre-order waiting lists at every shop that is accepting reservations tells me they won't care. ;)

That said, I wonder how they'll react by the lack of MMS and emoji, both of which have been standard for many years here in Japan. That will be a tough sell, because while most people can't figure out how to use Felica and Bluetooth and other features, the DO use MMS and emoji, heavily.

[bakedalaska]

Ever been to Japan? They LOVE electronics and travel by train and everyone is using their phone. Also the Japanese love the way things look and are packaged.

Not speaking Japanese and shopping for food was a nightmare - could not even find butter as it was so beautifully packaged.

The iPhone will be a success - no question. I think Apple were wise though to wait until they had 3G.

The poll is totally irrelavent with a sample size that small.

If the iPhone is a Quad band phone it will work in Japan. My tri-band did not!

[Dagless]

Japan is a culture of spec sheets. When consumers go to electronics stores to buy a cellphone, they frequently line up the specifications side by side to compare them before deciding which one to buy.

That's what I do too but, camera aside, the iPhone matches all the specs I need.

[arn]

fyi, they surveyed CLUB BBQ free email forwarding service members

http://iphone-japan.blogspot.com/2008/06/91-of-japanese-will-not-buy-iphone-oh.html

Survey target: members of the CLUB BBQ free email forwarding service

Besides the fact that the sample does not represent Japanese cellphone market its size (around 400 answers) is too small to be taken seriously.

So the headlines should read: “Survey: 91% of CLUB BBQ members don’t want an iPhone”

[jonnylink]

As a person living in Japan I think I can speak to this a bit. Seg1 TV is not important. It doesn't work very well so people don't use it very much. If you move (even just walking), or go underground the signal goes to crap. And most phones here still don't have it either. Seg1 might be the future, but the future is neither here nor working yet.

Phones here do have a lot on them, off the top of my head the things that people here are bound to miss are:

* lack of infrared (used to easily share contact info & more)
* inability to read barcodes / characters
* no dictionary (japanese to english)

There are of course various other features that some phones have, but these three are fairly standard. The first being the biggest gotcha here.

Except for infrared, most things can be added as apps, but unless they are free apps it'll be a hard sell. "Oh, you don't like that this phone can't read bar codes like all the others? ...Well you can buy the bar code app!" Who wouldn't like to pay even more to keep the status quo in feature set?

That aside, there is one other huge factor— the coolness factor. Japan is a very fashion savvy country. If the iPhone is seen as a hip phone (it is) it will sell well. It stands very little chance of hitting the market share it's getting in the US (by virtue of the many kinds of phone companies and phone choices), but it'll sell.

I hope this clears things up a bit. While I'm no expert myself, I'm tired of reading posts made by people who have no knowledge whatsoever of Japan proclaiming the iPhone years behind anything in Japan and etc. It isn't true.


edit: not all that many people use felica, but it will rule out those customers. Emoji on the other hand really would be a big miss. However I can't see them not being added. Hundreds of emoji is overstating it though. More like a hundred. Similarly, language prediction is a must. You type in hiragana so it has to be changed to Kanji (where applicable). OS X does this, so I think that it wouldn't be a big problem to get the kanji going, but the prediction might be a little hairy. We'll see.

[ilflyya]

Everyone does realize that a higher megapixel camera, without a large enough sensor or proper lens space isn't necessarily a good thing right? I don't want an iPhone that takes noisy/grainy pictures :-)

[pgifford]

A poll's error margin is related to the population being studied. In this case, the population being studied is not "Japan", it's some subset of Japan. We don't know what subset. If there is any correlation between the selecting criteria for the subset and the response (people who clicked on "win a free iPhone" for example, or people who visited the Au forums) then the results are almost impossible to generalize. You'd need to know how to convert the likelihoods of a response from the sub-population to the larger population which might be achievable through good historical data if you can show the relationship has been consistent enough over time-- but no such historical data can be available for a product this young.

Ask ten Texans what country they'd most like to live and raise kids in. Then tell me how to calculate the margins for error on the question "What country do most people in the world find most appealing?"

Ask 400 white men if they've ever been discriminated against and then tell me how many black women have been.

Margins for error are statistically rigorous values, just like the rest of the results. Almost all standard formulas assume a truly random sample. If you don't have a random sample, then you need to know both the correlation values between populations and *their* margins for error.


sorry, wrong terminology. Statistics class was a long time ago. My point was that the more people taking the poll and the more random sampling there is makes for a more accurate poll.

[RM48]

I don't think you understand how polls and statistics work. Obviously they can't poll everyone in Japan. They can extrapolate results within a certain margin of error from a sampling of the population - the more people they poll, the smaller the margin of error. How do you think they come up with results from other polls like the president's popularity ratings? Nobody I know has ever been asked if they approve or disapprove of the president, yet they can say that 70 percent of Americans disapprove of him.

No, i think its you that doesn't know how statistics works. An internet poll is a convenience sample. Meaning, only people with an interest or bias will volunteer to participate. The data of the poll is therefor most likely inflated. Meaning if the poll resulted in 9% of responders wanting an iphone, that number is most likely well above the actual long-run percentage. Bringing us to the conclusion that this article is ridiculous to claim that 9% of Japanese people will buy an iphone. This article is has been spun so much that it is laughable.

[surferfromuk]

Survey reveals 91% of Japanese don't really know what an iPhone is...they soon will!!

[cube]

Logic says 100% of Apple fanboys think all Apple products are the best.

[pgifford]

No, i think its you that doesn't know how statistics works. An internet poll is a convenience sample. Meaning, only people with an interest or bias will volunteer to participate. The data of the poll is therefor most likely inflated. Meaning if the poll resulted in 9% of responders wanting an iphone, that number is most likely well above the actual long-run percentage. Bringing us to the conclusion that this article is ridiculous to claim that 9% of Japanese people will buy an iphone. This article is has been spun so much that it is laughable.

Have you read anyof my other posts? I mentioned that if only a certain group of people (be it male, female, young, old, nerdy, non-nerdy, willing to participate in internet polls, not willing to participate in internet polls, etc.) responding to a poll will throw off the accuracy as well.

Please read all the way through before quoting. Thanks.

[tgildred]

A recent poll shows that 100% of people surveyed say they wouldn't participate in a useless poll.* Which pretty much makes them all liars.



*Out of 1 person surveyed. And that person was me.

[iZac]

The only question i would have for the Japanese market is:

Can you email your newly taken Purikura to your iPhone, and use it as your wallpaper?

[soapsuds]

Just to throw out some anecdotal evidence... I was with some Japanese a few months ago, and they seemed pretty eager to check out our iPhones. My sense is apple has some coolness with the Japanese, unlike Microsoft and the xbox. Even Nintendo cited Apple as an inspiration for the Wii's case design. So it probably won't be a complete failure there, although it seems hard to imagine it having the same sort of sucess as inthe states.

PS. Can someone please buy Arn an iPhone so he will make macrumors work with it? Every key I type makes the whole screen scroll from the top left insanely (at least with beta 2.0), plus the tiny page navigation buttons are impossible to hit. Why not have a nice big "next" button like on digg?

[gceo]

My experience in Japan is that they have a small but dedicated group of Apple fans. I'm sure it will do well with those on Apple's side, but as usual, the others will make it their job to pick it apart.... most likely because it helps them feel less jealous.

[mavis]

PS. Can someone please buy Arn an iPhone so he will make macrumors work with it? Every key I type makes the whole screen scroll from the top left insanely (at least with beta 2.0), plus the tiny page navigation buttons are impossible to hit. Why not have a nice big "next" button like on digg?

mobile.macrumors.com is your friend :)

Although it doesn't work perfectly on the Touch/iPhone (lots of rendering erros for some reason) it's faster and easier than using the 'full' site.

[jonnylink]

The only question i would have for the Japanese market is:

Can you email your newly taken Purikura to your iPhone, and use it as your wallpaper?

considering you can email them to any phone already, yes.

[mavis]

considering you can email them to any phone already, yes.

Plus the fact that the iPhone 2.0 firmware will allow saving pictures from email attachments to the Photos.app, and of course any of those pictures can be used as wallpaper.

That said, in my six years of living in Japan I've never ONCE seen a purikura used as wallpaper, ANYWHERE (trains, schools, etc) ... ;)

[askthedust]

Otis B. Driftwood: Now pay particular attention to this first clause because it's most important. It says the, uh...”The party of the first part shall be known in this contract as the party of the first part." How do you like that? That's pretty neat, eh?
Fiorello: No, that's no good.
Otis B. Driftwood: What's the matter with it?
Fiorello: I dunno. Let's hear it again.
Otis B. Driftwood: It says the, uh...”The party of the first part shall be known in this contract as the party of the first part."
Fiorello: That sounds a little better this time.
Otis B. Driftwood: Well, it grows on you. Would you like to hear it once more?
Fiorello: Er... just the first part.
Otis B. Driftwood: What do you mean? The... the party of the first part?
Fiorello: No, the first part of the party of the first part.
Otis B. Driftwood: All right. It says the, uh, "The first part of the party of the first part shall be known in this contract as the first part of the party of the first part shall be known in this contract...” look, why should we quarrel about a thing like this? We'll take it right out, eh?
[Fiorello and Driftwood go over the second clause of their contract]
Otis B. Driftwood: Now, it says, uh, "The party of the second part shall be known in this contract as the party of the second part."
Fiorello: Well, I don't know about that...
Otis B. Driftwood: Now what's the matter?
Fiorello: I no like-a the second party, either.
Otis B. Driftwood: Well, you should of come to the first party. We didn't get home 'til around four in the morning. I was blind for three days!

[flipperfeet]

The iPhone technology in Japan is so 3 years ago :p

Japan may have amazing specs and ubiquitous 3G, but I lived in Japan a little over three years ago and no phone on the market had an interface remotely like the iPhone. Nor the frictionless movement from one function to the other.

Check out Wireless Watch Japan if you want to know what is happening with the mobile phone market in Japan. They are just as excited to see the iPhone arrive this summer via Softbank as the US was a year ago. You can be sure that the carriers DoCoMo and KDDI as well as Panasonic, Sharp, and Sony are concerned about its arrival. A single handset that might sell into 9% of a market that replaces their phones on average every 8 months would be phenomenal for a new entrant.

Japanese consumers are incredibly label, celebrity and exclusivity conscious. Twelve dozen well placed phones could start a run on the handsets that would make them the most desirable handset for a quarter or more. I am sure the lines at the Apple Store in Ginza will be record setting the day it is released.

[gonta]

I'm not sure where this news came from . If it were report of something, that is 'fake'.

Japanese loves marks of specsheets, Yes, that's right. At the result, Japanese cell phone have a lot of unnecessary functions, like TV, Radio, MP3 Player, Camera, even electric money.

Many people around me say 'we don't need any more function except phone, www browser, SMS'. They also want iPhone. Especially multi-touch UI is so interesting for them, off course, me too.

Softbank which is company of iPhone 3G carrior in Japan has a criminal record. 'a criminal record' means that Softbank had a lot trouble when they started new service. After they announced about iPhone 3G, they didn't make any comment about iPhone 3G.

Apple and they said iPhone 3G started in July 11. I am worried that Softbank may make trouble iPhone 3G.

[kamm]

Yes, our technology is seriously behind that of the Japanese.

The density of their population has allowed certain technologies to be adopted quickly.

If Japanese or Korean companies had to offer the capabilities they offer now, but across the width of North America, things would have moved more slowly.

Bullcrap, the typical BS these greedy companies feed you. :) Geographically 90% of continental US population live in or around metropolitan areas and Europe is far ahead of US since the 90s. Look at the cable market - wireless phone smarket wass the same for long time except they are not tied by cables. :)

It's nothing but lack of investment due to lack of corporate regulations.

[kamm]

I'm not sure where this news came from . If it were report of something, that is 'fake'.

Japanese loves marks of specsheets, Yes, that's right. At the result, Japanese cell phone have a lot of unnecessary functions, like TV, Radio, MP3 Player, Camera, even electric money.

Many people around me say 'we don't need any more function except phone, www browser, SMS'. They also want iPhone. Especially multi-touch UI is so interesting for them, off course, me too.

Softbank which is company of iPhone 3G carrior in Japan has a criminal record. 'a criminal record' means that Softbank had a lot trouble when they started new service. After they announced about iPhone 3G, they didn't make any comment about iPhone 3G.

Apple and they said iPhone 3G started in July 11. I am worried that Softbank may make trouble iPhone 3G.

SO people say "it's unnecessary" for all extras except when it's in the iPhone?

You fanboys are hilarious, seriously.

[mavis]

SO people say "it's unnecessary" for all extras except when it's in the iPhone?Actually, there is only one app I've never used on my iPod touch: the iTunes Store app. Everything else I find useful (to varying degrees) ... However there are lots of features on my mobiles that I've never used over the years - OneSeg, Felica, Bluetooth chat, Navi, etc. So, yeah - I'd feel comfortable referring to those as unnecessary. ;)

[megfilmworks]

The young Japanese love American music and style. They love the iPod.
The iPhone may not take over the Japanese IT market but I predict it will more than make up for it with sales to the young and stylish Japanese buyers.

[mavis]

The young Japanese love American music and style.I love blanket statements like these ... ;)

Anyway, there are several problems for young buyers. First, the data plans are likely to be priced similar to existing plans, which run about $100/month for unlimited transfers. That's just for data - extras like SMS, voice calling, etc are also quite expensive. This may prove to be too much for many young people. Also, many young people do not have computers at home, especially not computers of their own. This is why mobile devices are used to access the internet more than computers, here in Japan. Finally, Japanese people (particularly young people) use emoji extensively in their day to day SMS and MMS/emails. If the iPhone doesn't support this Japan-only feature, I expect that will turn off a lot of people here (again, particularly young people) ...

Just a few thoughts. I do believe the iPhone will be wildly successful here, just maybe not in the demographic you're referring to. ;)

[yyy]

They only asked about 400 people out of Japan's more than 127,433,000 population? And in an online survey? That seems highly inaccurate to me :p

Anyway, If it doesn't become a success in Japan, they can always bring it to Israel, where they can't wait to have an official release of the iPhone. They've even created a group with almost 1000 members in an attempt to promote its release there: link (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=15342704508) :)

[maokh]

My iPhone attracts ooo's and aww's in japan..even in airplane mode. People know what it is, even though it is not anywhere on the japanese consumer's radar. Compared to the garbage on the market right now, it has a potential of being some sort of niche hit. Handset and plan cost is probably the biggest issue though.

Yes, our technology is seriously behind that of the Japanese.

The density of their population has allowed certain technologies to be adopted quickly.

If Japanese or Korean companies had to offer the capabilities they offer now, but across the width of North America, things would have moved more slowly.

The japanese are not ahead of the US in technology. Air interfaces (the cellular systems as we know it) have been parallel with the US ever since 2001 or so. Sometimes the US has actually lead. Infact, 3G adoption in Japan was, up to recently, very lousy. It wasn't until they forced all new subscribers to 3G systems where the subscriber count finally entered into the millions. Everyone seems to run around with crap PHS phones still to this day.

It has a lot to do with cost more than anything. they'll try to sell you video calling..but nobody actually uses it.

Population density is in no way related to how fast technologies are adopted. Its simply the culture. You can even see old grandmas texting on the train and realize that the country isnt afraid to push more than just the talk and end buttons on their handsets.

[happydude]

Yes, our technology is seriously behind that of the Japanese.

The density of their population has allowed certain technologies to be adopted quickly.

If Japanese or Korean companies had to offer the capabilities they offer now, but across the width of North America, things would have moved more slowly.

what explains the 5 year step backward in the u.s. in not offering picture messaging for the iphone?

[jigs]

just chiming in to say that, from personal experience, almost every japanese person i know has talked to me about the iphone these past couple weeks...there are so many people here i know that want one and cant wait.
perhaps its just the crowd i work with, but i have a feeling its gonna really gonna take off here.

i'd agree with previous poster comments that features like the tv and 'keitai saifu' will not be missed by many outside of tokyo. i see people using the infrared and bar code reader most often and missing that, if anything, may be a turn-off for some, but for most people i think the feature is a 'minor' convenience.

as a matter of personal opinion, i think what will be the biggest selling point for japan will be osx. osx's fluidity, consistency, and design still blows away any o/s ive seen on any keitai here. to be frank, one of the biggest culture shocks that i had when i came here was that even though japan may be known for its advanced electronics, most japanese (aged 30+) i've met are not that technologically inclined. i am usually the one showing them the features on the copier/computer/keitai. the simplicity and user-friendliness of osx will be a refreshing alternative to the choppy and sometimes convoluted o/s's that currently run on the phones here.

ive already seen a couple commercials from docomo pushing their new phone and its 'amaizingu uzaa ekusupiriansu.' (my katakana-english, not theirs) i think its safe to say both docomo and au are scrambling to get something together that can compete.

...and i have the worst luck. i bought a new $350 phone just days before i read the rumor that apple was in talks with softbank for japan. anyone want to buy a cool japanese keitai?

[shiba11]

Softbank a Chinese or Korean company President , Bought out Vodafone kk (Japan) their handsets have never been so popular. Vodafone Japan was having a tough time in the local market, using Beckham as a popular force in advertising. The best operators in Japan with the nicest and sleekest phones are KDDI ( AU) and DOCOMO Japan Telecom Giant NTT.
Many Japanese do not like to support Korean and Chinese backed companies.
Why should they when Chinese and Korean students flood the internet with derogatory comments towards the Japanese.
:(

[mavis]

Many Japanese do not like to support Korean and Chinese backed companies.
Why should they when Chinese and Korean students flood the internet with derogatory comments towards the Japanese.
:(Please keep Japanese xenophobia out of the discussion ... ;)

[kabunaru]

Softbank a Chinese or Korean company President , Bought out Vodafone kk (Japan) their handsets have never been so popular. Vodafone Japan was having a tough time in the local market, using Beckham as a popular force in advertising. The best operators in Japan with the nicest and sleekest phones are KDDI ( AU) and DOCOMO Japan Telecom Giant NTT.
Many Japanese do not like to support Korean and Chinese backed companies.
Why should they when Chinese and Korean students flood the internet with derogatory comments towards the Japanese.
:(

A lot of Asian countries do hate each other. :rolleyes:

[DMann]

A lot of Asian countries do hate each other. :rolleyes:

Slavery and abuse might have had something to do with it.

[mavis]

Wirelessly posted (iTouch 1.1.4 (pWN'd + JB'd): Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)

A lot of Asian countries do hate each other. :rolleyes:

Slavery and abuse might have had something to do with it.

Thanks for the history lesson. Let's try to stay on topic.

[Shasterball]

Wow... Shouldn't there be a little more scrutiny regarding the types of polls posted here?

[voicegy]

Survey's are generally worthless especially when not taking into account updated, or soon to be updated, content (of what the survey was trying to accomplish)

We have a user here in Japan who says there's general excitement over the iPhone.

Let's see how well it will do in a couple of weeks. Opening this many markets at the same time for the iPhone will show an uptick in general for the device, not only in interest, but purchases. That's clear from any perspective, and who needs a survey to predict that?:rolleyes:

[wasabi2k]

I doubt the article. Iphone will be big in Japan just on the brand itself.

Think Cool, Think Hip, Think Apple... Think Iphone

[CaptainHaddock]

Finally, Japanese people (particularly young people) use emoji extensively in their day to day SMS and MMS/emails. If the iPhone doesn't support this Japan-only feature, I expect that will turn off a lot of people here (again, particularly young people) ...

I agree fully. I receive a lot of messages that are 30% emoji, and often even use icons as a sort of rebus in place of kanji. Both sending and reading these would be impossible on the iPhone. In addition, Softbank now offers デコレメール (decore-mail) on all or nearly all their phones, which allows you to send MMS with a vast range of icons and clip-art as well as different font sizes and colours. Needless to say, these won't work on the iPhone (not to mention that it doesn't have MMS at all). Any young person going into Softbank to get an iPhone will probably be talked out of it by the salespeople.

[goblues11]

9% is 11 MILLIONhttp://images.macrumors.com/vb/images/smilies/smile.gif

[(L)]

While HWR for Japanese isn't there yet, the iPhone does support two other VERY intuitive Japanese input methods (intelligent romaji entry and a kana pad):

http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2008/05/05/japanese-input-keyboards-on-iphone-2-0/

The kana pad is very intuitive and works the exact same way text entry does on current japanese cell phones.

In the words of someone (else) from japan:

[The last quote was about someone declaring Apple's way to be a huge improvement over that which exists already, using the endearing term "SUCKS."]

Sorry, but I'm pretty sure that as a Japanese living in Tokyo, your view here is highly optimistic.

What you say makes sense if the game were one of trying to poop out phonetic possibilities (refer to your own link). However, current text conversion software does a whole lot more than what Apple seems to have slapped together. The fact is that apart from the small conversion box (which certainly does have room for improvement), the term "SUCKS" isn't very appropriate when it is smart enough to come up with common phrases instead of phonetic declensions. That is, typing in "o-hi-sa" gets you "o-hi-sa-shi-bu-ri-de-su," or "long time no see," for example. If you know Japanese, you know this to be very useful, as there are so many frequently used phrases of the sort. Typing in "o-he-sa," you want to get the same. In either case, you shouldn't see "a-ha-sa," which means nothing, or "a-ho-sa," which declares yourself to be an idiot, but Apple's conversion would probably give this, judging from the link we've all seen, because all it does is cycle through phonetic possibilities and then convert those to kanji where possible.

To a student learning Japanese, that might be useful. To a Japanese, it's a farce. Any idea that Apple throwing something so primitive together should somehow turn out to be a vast improvement is difficult to entertain, especially since Apple's text conversion is a couple steps behind Windows's on computers.

I understand wanting to be optimistic, but this in all respects looks like Apple doing the least it can to have the iPhone be marketable at all, and this naturally falls far short of what the Japanese demand of their cell phone markets.

[(L)]

Referenced quote:

Originally Posted by shiba11
Many Japanese do not like to support Korean and Chinese backed companies.
Why should they when Chinese and Korean students flood the internet with derogatory comments towards the Japanese.

Please keep Japanese xenophobia out of the discussion ... ;)

While I too find Japanese xenophobia problematic, shiba11 seems to make some kind of odd connection between what people notice Chinese and Korean students to be doing on the net versus what Japanese consumers in general feel.

Xenophobia is a fear of foreigners. Not wanting to support foreign companies is a matter of a belief in the superiority of Japanese products, economics, and lastly a matter of racism, I think usually in that order. Panasonic and Sony and Toshiba do better than Samsung and... I can't think of any Chinese label... partly because their products are more advanced, though the others might be cheaper. I don't think people avoid Samsung very often for racist reasons, though there may well be a tendency to trust names that are seen as better brands -- like Sony or Panasonic. I certainly don't think people avoid Samsung because they are afraid of Koreans.

(Also, I'm not defending shiba11's view. I don't see the connection.)

[(L)]

My iPhone attracts ooo's and aww's in japan..even in airplane mode. People know what it is, even though it is not anywhere on the japanese consumer's radar. Compared to the garbage on the market right now, it has a potential of being some sort of niche hit. Handset and plan cost is probably the biggest issue though.

The japanese are not ahead of the US in technology. Air interfaces (the cellular systems as we know it) have been parallel with the US ever since 2001 or so. Sometimes the US has actually lead. Infact, 3G adoption in Japan was, up to recently, very lousy. It wasn't until they forced all new subscribers to 3G systems where the subscriber count finally entered into the millions. Everyone seems to run around with crap PHS phones still to this day.

It has a lot to do with cost more than anything. they'll try to sell you video calling..but nobody actually uses it.

Population density is in no way related to how fast technologies are adopted. Its simply the culture. You can even see old grandmas texting on the train and realize that the country isnt afraid to push more than just the talk and end buttons on their handsets.

Basically this whole post is backwards. It should read, "oohs and ahhs about shiny design but not much about Japanese text input," and "Japanese are years ahead of American cellular technology, and even how much plans cost," and "population density does have a great deal to do with adoption of technology, because it means services that are provided regionally can be done so more easily and people will be quicker to copy their neighbors."

PHP is still used, yes, but you'd only ever make a statement like "everybody seems to be using PHP" if you are hell bent on being surprised at how many there are. PHP still sells on the point that it can work in some areas cells don't, but I doubt you even knew that, and they are nowhere near the majority. In America, people seem to run around with crap phones with bad connections. It really does have to do a whole lot with the placement of cell towers.

Maybe it was opposite day for you, maokh? You talk some sense - like people not using video conferencing very much, or adoption having to do with culture. Population density is a big factor in culture, though. You also seem to confuse the technology used as being on par, whereas most people would recognize that the degree of implementation is quite different.