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View Full Version : Did you miss the iPod Touch price drop?




nomoreink
Jun 19, 2008, 11:28 AM
There's another post discussing the possibility of an iPod Touch price drop in the near future, did you all miss the actual price drop? It's right here (http://search-completed.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=so&sbrftog=1&dfsp=34&from=R40&satitle=ipod+touch+(16gb%2C+16+gb)&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=84004&sabfmts=1&fis=2&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&price=1&saprclo=150&saprchi=300&fsop=34%26fsoo%3D1&fgtp=).

Supply and demand, the worldwide market is determined by lots of factors, and in case you haven't noticed, even the MSRP on apple.com doesn't determine what a brand new unopened iPod Touch costs online.

So if Apple hopes to sell any ipods at MSRP, they better start matching the market, and they will - whether that means they will upgrade the current one somehow, or drop the price, or make a combination of both, it is unevitable that it will happen. But the -real- price already has dropped.



aethelbert
Jun 19, 2008, 11:33 AM
The "market" is not found on ebay.

nomoreink
Jun 19, 2008, 12:15 PM
The "market" is not found on ebay.

I respectfully disagree. Ebay is very representative of what people are willing to pay for a product, especially when it comes to electronics or other relatively popular and largely re-occuring auctions.

iDAG
Jun 19, 2008, 01:00 PM
I respectfully disagree. Ebay is very representative of what people are willing to pay for a product, especially when it comes to electronics or other relatively popular and largely re-occuring auctions.

Most of the products on Ebay are used though. Most of the prices on there reflect that.

Ugg
Jun 19, 2008, 01:01 PM
I'm not really sure what the point of this thread is. Apple has not dropped the price so nobody has missed anything.

nomoreink
Jun 19, 2008, 01:45 PM
Most of the products on Ebay are used though. Most of the prices on there reflect that.

Of course the ones that sell for $150-$200 are going to be heavily used or broken units. But although the MSRP for a 16 GB Touch is $399, you can buy a brand new iPod Touch on Ebay for $100 less than that. Make it a slightly used iPod Touch and you can knock another $40 off that price. If you look real hard you can even find brand new units for $200.

Given, you can't get your custom engraving (which in my opinion automatically lowers the value of your iPod anyways) when buy it on eBay.

Ugg
Jun 19, 2008, 01:58 PM
Of course the ones that sell for $150-$200 are going to be heavily used or broken units. But although the MSRP for a 16 GB Touch is $399, you can buy a brand new iPod Touch on Ebay for $100 less than that. Make it a slightly used iPod Touch and you can knock another $40 off that price. If you look real hard you can even find brand new units for $200.

Given, you can't get your custom engraving (which in my opinion automatically lowers the value of your iPod anyways) when buy it on eBay.

Steep discounts are usually a sign of illegal activity.

How can someone buy a brand new product, sell it at a third off and make money? Answer. They can't.

Custom engraving increases the value of an iPod for the person who orders it.

nomoreink
Jun 19, 2008, 02:14 PM
Steep discounts are usually a sign of illegal activity.

How can someone buy a brand new product, sell it at a third off and make money? Answer. They can't.

Custom engraving increases the value of an iPod for the person who orders it.

Ah, but the price is not determined by the seller but the buyer. If the public thought that a 16GB iPod Touch was worth $400 then it would be rare to find one for less on eBay, but since they won't pay that much for one, regardless of how a seller obtains one, the device is -available- for $200-$300.

I will agree though, the custom engraving does nothing to strengthen my point, it definitely does increase the value of the iPod to the person who orders it, although if that person ever decides to sell the iPod then the custom engraved one will fetch less on the market.

aethelbert
Jun 19, 2008, 02:24 PM
Here's the problem with your logic. If the public didn't think that it was worth $400, then nobody would buy it. At all. That means that none would be on ebay since those all come after they are purchased (or stolen) for the first time at MSRP.

Places like ebay don't affect the MSRP simply because the manufacturer will be selling the devices at MSRP before they make it to ebay to begin with.

PlaceofDis
Jun 19, 2008, 02:28 PM
hmmm maybe because people are getting them from the back to school deal and then making money selling them on ebay?

nomoreink
Jun 19, 2008, 02:53 PM
Here's the problem with your logic. If the public didn't think that it was worth $400, then nobody would buy it. At all. That means that none would be on ebay since those all come after they are purchased (or stolen) for the first time at MSRP.

Places like ebay don't affect the MSRP simply because the manufacturer will be selling the devices at MSRP before they make it to ebay to begin with.

There's two cases on eBay:
1) Somebody selling their personal iPod
2) Large or small businesses selling iPods

Almost all of the used (and even stolen, though I don't see how that is relevant) units are the first case, almost all of the brand new are the second.

In the first case, I assume that the general case is they were purchased brand new at the apple store and for whatever reason they decided to sell them later.

In the second case often a business will buy large amounts of stock (I don't know if in this case whether apple gives discounts to resellers for large quantity orders) and then to make way for other newer items, they have to sell off the rest, often eating some money just to get rid of the units. This I think would be the case for most of the brand new units for sell.

All of this is beside the point though. My point is that as long as people can buy a brand new, or slightly used, or heavily used iPod Touch at a much more attractive price on eBay, apple will be not be selling as many units as they would if they lowered their price to match.

Should the demand be higher, the online auctions will approach MSRP and a purchase on eBay will in essence represent a purchase on eBay because those auctions will drive more people to purchase from the apple store.

Counter arguments?

aethelbert
Jun 19, 2008, 03:27 PM
There's two cases on eBay:
1) Somebody selling their personal iPod
2) Large or small businesses selling iPods

Almost all of the used (and even stolen, though I don't see how that is relevant) units are the first case, almost all of the brand new are the second.

In the first case, I assume that the general case is they were purchased brand new at the apple store and for whatever reason they decided to sell them later.

In the second case often a business will buy large amounts of stock (I don't know if in this case whether apple gives discounts to resellers for large quantity orders) and then to make way for other newer items, they have to sell off the rest, often eating some money just to get rid of the units. This I think would be the case for most of the brand new units for sell.

All of this is beside the point though. My point is that as long as people can buy a brand new, or slightly used, or heavily used iPod Touch at a much more attractive price on eBay, apple will be not be selling as many units as they would if they lowered their price to match.

Should the demand be higher, the online auctions will approach MSRP and a purchase on eBay will in essence represent a purchase on eBay because those auctions will drive more people to purchase from the apple store.

Counter arguments?
Ebay is and always has been a place for getting things for cheap. If Apple lowers the MSRP then ebay prices would fall, too. The point of ebay is irrelevant.

nomoreink
Jun 19, 2008, 03:44 PM
Ebay is and always has been a place for getting things for cheap. If Apple lowers the MSRP then ebay prices would fall, too. The point of ebay is irrelevant.

Not always, when new devices are first released and demand is high things can cost two to three times more on eBay. And even after that while the product is relatively new they usually cost MSRP. Nintendo DS Lite still costs MSRP on eBay (for a brand new one), that's a healthy sign that Nintendo doesn't need to drop its price to make good sales, and it was released about the same time as the iPod Touch wasn't it?

PMB
Jun 19, 2008, 04:09 PM
just me, but as soon as i saw this, and read your post, a big red, "prick" flag went up. I know this was not your intention, but i thought id share.

That being said,
the priced are drastically from people trying to unload them for the 3G iphone, i think, therefore, ebay prices are silly low, after people are done dumping, prices will rise, apple is winning, because that means more people will buy from the itunes store, because people dropped the touch, and got an iphone.

(also, i do realize the grammar above is sub-par)

EDIT: i just realized the irony in my post, im telling some guy he's a prick, when i cam be a REAL annoying prick. silly me.

aethelbert
Jun 19, 2008, 04:12 PM
You're making no progress here. If you think that the "real price" for any given item is found on ebay or in any auction, you're misguided. Believe it or not, most people don't shop on ebay and they'd prefer to get something from a B&M retailer. There are more of them nowadays because of the back to school promo. Some are also getting rid of their iPods in favor of the new iPhone. Economics 101 will tell you that supply and price are inversely proportional.

Buying on ebay has its downsides, and for that a lot of people won't pay as much for something on there, regardless of condition, as they would elsewhere. Just to reiterate: ebay does not determine the market price for anything.

Fontenette Yo!
Jun 19, 2008, 04:17 PM
hmmm maybe because people are getting them from the back to school deal and then making money selling them on ebay? This person has made the greatest point out of any one I believe.

PlaceofDis
Jun 19, 2008, 04:19 PM
This person has made the greatest point out of any one I believe.

yay! my post didn't go unnoticed. seriously though thats the biggest reason that the touch is so low on aftermarket sales right now

nomoreink
Jun 19, 2008, 04:20 PM
just me, but as soon as i saw this, and read your post, a big red, "prick" flag went up. I know this was not your intention, but i thought id share.


Haha, after reading this, I re-read my first post and have must agree, I really do sound like a prick. I don't know why I chose that method to bring up this topic of conversation and I apologize. It obviously didn't help me in looking for healthy conversation.

I guess the way I see it, is that I bought an iPod Touch in brand new condition (but the box was opened) for $275 on eBay about a month ago, and I didn't feel like I got anything less than others who paid $399 plus tax at the apple store. So long as there is a huge price gap like that I am never going to fork out the money to buy it from the store, and for some strange reason I guess I expect others to do the same. *shrugs* I really could be totally wrong on this one, I was hoping that somebody could explain to me why people would choose the $399 plus tax option.

If there is a good reason, then that would also be a reason for Apple to not bring on any price drops, but if there isn't, I think they are smart enough at Apple to anticipate the market and a price drop will happen soon.

Can somebody help me understand here?

nomoreink
Jun 19, 2008, 04:22 PM
hmmm maybe because people are getting them from the back to school deal and then making money selling them on ebay?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time they did that was right before they released the new iPod Nano right? Maybe this time will be similar...

Fontenette Yo!
Jun 19, 2008, 04:24 PM
My friend bought a supposedly "new" ipod off of ebay and It came with a large lipstick kiss print on it and a malfunctioning hard drive. It was a very funny moment for me cause we were joking the day before about people doing horrible things to the products they sell on ebay before they send them out.

PMB
Jun 19, 2008, 04:25 PM
Haha, after reading this, I re-read my first post and have must agree, I really do sound like a prick. I don't know why I chose that method to bring up this topic of conversation and I apologize. It obviously didn't help me in looking for healthy conversation.

I guess the way I see it, is that I bought an iPod Touch in brand new condition (but the box was opened) for $275 on eBay about a month ago, and I didn't feel like I got anything less than others who paid $399 plus tax at the apple store. So long as there is a huge price gap like that I am never going to fork out the money to buy it from the store, and for some strange reason I guess I expect others to do the same. *shrugs* I really could be totally wrong on this one, I was hoping that somebody could explain to me why people would choose the $399 plus tax option.

If there is a good reason, then that would also be a reason for Apple to not bring on any price drops, but if there isn't, I think they are smart enough at Apple to anticipate the market and a price drop will happen soon.

Can somebody help me understand here?
The reason i bought mine in the store was
1, the assurance that it was new, not stolen, and i could put apple care on it, in the end, my bill that day was $423:eek:
2, it was very shortly after the release, and the ones on ebay were roughly the same price, but if i were to buy today, i would go for the in store, for the same reasons as above, even though i could save alot of money.

My friend bought a supposedly "new" ipod off of ebay and It came with a large lipstick kiss print on it and a malfunctioning hard drive. It was a very funny moment for me cause we were joking the day before about people doing horrible things to the products they sell on ebay before they send them out.
More reason to buy from the store

nomoreink
Jun 19, 2008, 04:40 PM
I think I understand now. I started using eBay so long ago that I really have a lot of trust in the system. I know that I can return stuff that wasn't as described and my purchases are all backed in case the seller flakes out. But I forgot that this isn't public knowledge.

The general public would definitely feel a lot more security in buying them from the store.

My status as a college student has necessitated that I find cheaper ways to get modern technology.

PMB
Jun 19, 2008, 04:58 PM
I think I understand now. I started using eBay so long ago that I really have a lot of trust in the system. I know that I can return stuff that wasn't as described and my purchases are all backed in case the seller flakes out. But I forgot that this isn't public knowledge.

The general public would definitely feel a lot more security in buying them from the store.

My status as a college student has necessitated that I find cheaper ways to get modern technology.

You do point out another thing though, most people who are buying on ebay are the ones who like cheaper prices, and will take the risk of a broken item, or people on a budget, so there is a market for everyone

crazed rhetoric
Jun 19, 2008, 06:37 PM
Haha, after reading this, I re-read my first post and have must agree, I really do sound like a prick. I don't know why I chose that method to bring up this topic of conversation and I apologize. It obviously didn't help me in looking for healthy conversation.

I guess the way I see it, is that I bought an iPod Touch in brand new condition (but the box was opened) for $275 on eBay about a month ago, and I didn't feel like I got anything less than others who paid $399 plus tax at the apple store. So long as there is a huge price gap like that I am never going to fork out the money to buy it from the store, and for some strange reason I guess I expect others to do the same. *shrugs* I really could be totally wrong on this one, I was hoping that somebody could explain to me why people would choose the $399 plus tax option.

If there is a good reason, then that would also be a reason for Apple to not bring on any price drops, but if there isn't, I think they are smart enough at Apple to anticipate the market and a price drop will happen soon.

Can somebody help me understand here?

One pro to buying at a store,as I did, is that you are able to buy the protection plan as well. If I happen to brick my Ipod, and its not blatintly obvious that the case was a high velocisty trip towards a wall. Then I can just go to best buy and swap it out for a new one.

PMB
Jun 19, 2008, 07:13 PM
One pro to buying at a store,as I did, is that you are able to buy the protection plan as well. If I happen to brick my Ipod, and its not blatintly obvious that the case was a high velocisty trip towards a wall. Then I can just go to best buy and swap it out for a new one.

two things, bricking is impossible, and second, it is velocity, fyi

also, i dont think the people at bestbuy are ignorant enough to accept a ipod showing the BSD error....

scialex
Jun 20, 2008, 07:51 AM
Most of the products on Ebay are used though. Most of the prices on there reflect that.
and also ebay is notorious for scams.
poeple would rather be more sure from apple

eplchamps0304
Jun 20, 2008, 08:20 AM
Ebay in no way reflects what the price of an item should be. I knew I could have purchased my ipod touch brand new on ebay for $260, but i went to the apple store for the peace of mind. I once purchased a blackberry phone on ebay that arrived not working. That being said I have purchased other great items on ebay. Most people do not use ebay so your argument is fundamentally flawed.

-Dark Angel-
Jun 20, 2008, 01:33 PM
Sorry, its either stores or Amazon for me. I don't like ebay because its either used or they scam ya out. Yes, I do have money I can waste like that. I don't care about the price, just know that I'm getting what I paid for.

nomoreink
Jun 21, 2008, 01:07 PM
I guess I am glad that the public thinks eBay is notorious for scams and that you have no security in things purchased there because that lowers the prices for people like me who know that's not true.

I've had people try to scam me, or even just sell me something that was not quite as good of condition as was described and every time I have gotten my money back, or a hefty discount worthy of the difference.

eplchamps0304
Jun 21, 2008, 02:40 PM
I guess I am glad that the public thinks eBay is notorious for scams and that you have no security in things purchased there because that lowers the prices for people like me who know that's not true.

I've had people try to scam me, or even just sell me something that was not quite as good of condition as was described and every time I have gotten my money back, or a hefty discount worthy of the difference.

Some people just dont want to take the risk. Brand new 8 gig touch sells on ebay for as high as $265. The amount I would save is not worth the risk for me. Walking into a store is better, at least its guaranteed.

happyprozak
Jun 21, 2008, 04:45 PM
I think you guys are having a hard time agreeing because you're talking about two different things. Obviously there has been no official price drop. The retail market and the ebay market are not the same either because both of these markets attract different types of people. Obviously the value of an iPod Touch has dropped on the ebay market, partially because the market is over saturated. To call this a price drop is misleading though, this is simply a devaluation of the product on the ebay market.

As I said, the ebay and retail markets attract different types of people but there is some overlap where people will look at the price and determine if its worth the risk. Retailers don't generally lower the price of their products because they are selling for significantly less on ebay though.

Apple definately won't lower the price of the products because they are selling for less than msrp at ebay either. Apple will determine price based on how well or poor a product is selling, not how well it holds its value.

Heraklitus
Jun 21, 2008, 07:19 PM
I guess I am glad that the public thinks eBay is notorious for scams and that you have no security in things purchased there because that lowers the prices for people like me who know that's not true.

I've had people try to scam me, or even just sell me something that was not quite as good of condition as was described and every time I have gotten my money back, or a hefty discount worthy of the difference.

Yea I agree. I am just laughing at how little I paid for my 32GB touch compared to retail. It's in mint condition and works great.

Grentz
Jun 22, 2008, 12:33 AM
The ones on ebay tend to go $100 less than retail for the Brand New Sealed units on the 16 and 32 models.

IE the 16gb models Brand New Sealed are around $300 and the 32gb are around $400.

It is all economics, the going back and forth is quite funny in this thread IMO as there are two markets at play here. There is the whole market that focuses heavily on retail that Apple prices for, and the online ebay market that is very much set by supply and demand and the type of people that sell/buy on eBay. eBay is very sensitive to Supply and Demand even down to the hour when auctions end (demand higher or supply higher, etc.). This makes the prices have an average but still all over the board. Also ones from sellers with lower feedback tend to go for lower, ones from higher feedback go higher, etc. Lots of variables.

The fact is both are market price. The other fact is that Apple could sell a ton more iPods if they lowered the price, but for them they have to find the equilibrium as cheaper + more does not always = or > more expensive + less.

Its all Economics, and Apple like any other large company has a huge team devoted to it :cool:


to those talking about scams and such, yes there are plenty of those on ebay, but there are plenty legit as well. Many are brand new sealed units that have been bought in bulk and still have full Apple warranties. Just cause it did not come from Best Buy at a full $499 price tag does not mean it is a scam or stolen.