The Death of Microsoft?

[Bwilky]

Does anyone else think that Microsoft is going to crash soon since they stopped selling XP? Apparently yesterday you can't buy it legally anymore and Since most of the PC users are still using XP, their going to have to upgrade to vista at some point when their machine dies. I think this is where Apple steps in and use their ad's to get more pc users to convert. I dunno, maybe a commercial where PC comes in sad because he was going to downgrade to XP, but now it's to late or something. Seeing as you can install XP on a mac I don't see why the VISTA haters wouldn't switch. Win Win for them, GREAT OS, and if their not satisfied, use their crappy XP on the Mac.

Just a thought.

[arkitect]

"We have to let go of a few things here. We have to let go of the notion that for Apple to win, Microsoft has to lose,"
-Steve Jobs-
MacWorld 1997

[zap2]

No, and you can still buy XP(well OEMs can, and they pass the extra cost right on to you!!) http://gizmodo.com/5017980/windows-xp-on-a-dell-means-50-downgrade-surcharge-starting-now

And netbooks can still use XP for the normal price, if I recall.


But the main reason MS will be fine, is that companies like Dell, HP, Sony, Asus aren't leaving. Sure Linux is going to gain some market share( the netbook crazy will have them gain some, but MS will still have some of that market)

When Mom+Pop go to pick up a 500 dollar PC to check the web they are gonna get Vista, and until companies replace Vista/XP as the preinstalled OS, MS has little to fear.

[gkarris]

The thing that will save Microsoft and keep them afloat:

Developers, developers, developers, developers... :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hadxBZWxNrs

[IJ Reilly]

This prediction is made by someone every time Microsoft migrates from one version of Windows to another. If it was only a matter of the MacOS being better than Windows (or DOS before it), then Microsoft would have been toast a long, long time ago. The reality has always been that the quality of Microsoft's operating systems don't matter very much. The secret to their success is having the OEMs welded at the hip and marching in lockstep to the Microsoft drummer, which they've been made to do with coercion when they weren't otherwise willing. This is the industry which sells the vast majority of the copies of Windows to consumers -- not Microsoft.

The other reality is that once Microsoft's market share reached 95% or so, as a practical matter, it could only go down. I'd expect Apple to continue to whittle away at the Windows market share, slowly but surely. It isn't natural for any one company to have a 95% share of any important market, or even 90%, if an alternative is being offered.

[kkat69]

Somthing to ponder:

Is a post stating "Do Not Feed The Troll" feeding the Troll? :eek:

I like the part "spreading rumors" - on a "rumors" site to begin with... :D

That's actually a self portrait of me at work.

[BlakTornado]

"We have to let go of a few things here. We have to let go of the notion that for Apple to win, Microsoft has to lose,"
-Steve Jobs-
MacWorld 1997

We all know he had his fingers crossed behind his back ;)

[bashveank]

No, Vista's fine and people will realize that once they start to actually use it.

[Jiff Lemon]

veering slightly off topic for a moment....

There was an interesting post made about a month ago by a windows blogger. They'd posted a statement made by some major company about why they weren't rolling out Vista SP1. After everyone had sat nodding and agreeing with all the comments, it was brought to light that the statement was made several years earlier and was originally about XP SP2.

Some people don't like change, some welcome it.

Me? I see both PC's and Mac's as the same thing - they're a tool. If you find one tool easier than the other, use it.

back on topic:

Microsoft, quite simply, do not live and die by a single OS.

[gkarris]

^^^

Were we ever on topic?

Microsoft didn't die when it stopped selling Windows 95.


MS will live on and continue to be the OS with #1 market share...

[soberbrain]

Switching everyone from Windows to OS X will be as easy as switching everyone from U.S. standard of measurement to metric

[Eraserhead]

No, Vista's fine and people will realize that once they start to actually use it.

+1, the main problem is that it isn't a big enhancement, not that it isn't useable.

[macintouch]

I'm certainly not a ~*Microsoft fanboy, but they certainly aren't going to crash or go anywhere. I do like that quote that the person above posted from Macworld 97. That sums it up nicely.

[Queso]

Switching everyone from Windows to OS X will be as easy as switching everyone from U.S. standard of measurement to metric
Now that would be easy if only you'd all stop being so stubborn about it :p

[cwheatley]

not trying to sound like a hater, but i'm still not ready to try vista again... my mum bought one of the cheaper xps laptops last month, and within a week, vista had already "lost" (dell's word for it) her entire user profile, and had to restore to factory settings because the os was so screwed up. it was very bizarre... had all the updates and everything, too.

makes me wonder if this is the norm for windows pcs...

[IJ Reilly]

I do like that quote that the person above posted from Macworld 97. That sums it up nicely.

That was really just a political statement, not a reflection of the reality then and even less so now. Don't think for a moment that Apple isn't constantly thinking of ways to steal market share from Microsoft and that Microsoft isn't trying every day to find new ways of competing with Apple.

[Eraserhead]

That was really just a political statement, not a reflection of the reality then and even less so now. Don't think for a moment that Apple isn't constantly thinking of ways to steal market share from Microsoft and that Microsoft isn't trying every day to find new ways of competing with Apple.

I dunno, you could definitely say Apple has won now, but Microsoft certainly hasn't lost yet.

[surferfromuk]

Apple need to do two things to light the touch-paper for mass switching ;

1) When people contemplate switching they look for BIG reasons. Whilst there are half a dozen biggies the real benefits are the hundreds of little reasons. That message is virtually impossible to transmit but it does explain why people switch never go back..the endless little 'oh cool' moments...

2) Enterprise - it's really difficult to justify monster enterprise investment in Apple when Apple won't at least have an 'enterprise' tab on their website. That'd do it - that's all it would take - just a tab to keep all the enterprise crap under it but it would send out such a phenomenal message that people could legitimately start recommending Apple as an alternative to MS in the enterprise confident in the knowledge that Apple have setup a signpost ( which infers a roadmap at the very least)

Until these two problems are solved, whilst we ALL know Apple is massively superior and is set to become even more so, the erosion of MS as a dominant force will continue to be slow but steady - meaning MS ain't going anywhere soon - but, that said, continue it will. I expect to see Apple continue to make huge strides and over the next 5 years get at least another 10% market share - now that's when things will get REALLY interesting...

That said Apple are doing some really interesting things lately...and I think will have a few more major suprises up their sleeves in the next couple of years..

I think the biggest potential fracture point in MS is not in fact Vista, but the departure of Gates.

[cbrain]

No, Vista's fine and people will realize that once they start to actually use it.

I use Vista under Boot Camp and I haven't had any problems, just User Account Control is a slight annoyance.

[nick9191]

"We have to let go of a few things here. We have to let go of the notion that for Apple to win, Microsoft has to lose,"
-Steve Jobs-
MacWorld 1997
I count that the 384657785 time Steve Jobs has contradicted himself.

[XboxEvolved]

This is an interesting subject, and something I am writing about for my website. I have been doing a Xbox site for over six years now, and as of late, if you look the Xbox 360 is losing ground, which I think sucks, but a lot of it has to do with Microsoft as a whole, not just with Windows, has lost touch with what consumers want, and they have incredibly bad management.

If you look at the division that runs Xbox and Zune for example, they have had a change of hats so many times in the past two years that there is no clear management other than Shane Kim and Robbie Bach.

Steve Ballmer is ******* insane, and he has the weight to scare people like Bill Gates did into working
Balmer and Microsoft tried to buy Yahoo to help go against Google, when Yahoo sucks anyways, and their obsession with Google means they are slacking off in a lot of other areas
with them, but not the wits like Gates has. If Bill Gates were still actively running Microsoft, there wouldn't even be a discussion like this.

Just a few points:


Windows Mobile sucks and RIM and Apple control that industry now


Zune while successful in it's own right is no where near as successful as iPod, and was dropped by a major retailer recently, Gamestop


Besides that, no company is scared of Microsoft anymore, Microsoft mostly plays catch-up now, and Vista roll out sucked so bad, a lot of consumers and companies are just waiting for Windows 7.

Also, why would you want Macs to even become a majority? It will never happen, and if it did it would probably cause problems. Also, it isn't possible anyways, unless Apple sold macs at places such as Wal-Mart.

[Scooterman1]

Microsoft won't die until Apple releases a version of OS that can be used on the majority of Intel and AMD motherboards and hardware.
Until then, Microsoft will supply the majority of OS's to the large majority of computers.
Apple is too expensive for the majority of Home Computer Users, and Businesses.

[Queso]

Apple is too expensive for the majority of Home Computer Users, and Businesses.
But Linux isn't. If you've seen KDE4 running on Kubuntu 8.04 you'll see just how scared Microsoft ought to be right now. Microsoft's malaise has allowed Linux the time to mature for mass adoption. It only takes one large non-tech company to do it and the Windows business monopoly crumbles.

[IJ Reilly]

But Linux isn't. If you've seen KDE4 running on Kubuntu 8.04 you'll see just how scared Microsoft ought to be right now. Microsoft's malaise has allowed Linux the time to mature for mass adoption. It only takes one large non-tech company to do it and the Windows business monopoly crumbles.

This recurring prophecy reminds me of an old joke.

A woman meets an old friend of hers whom she hasn't seen for years. When she's asked what's new, she says, "Since I saw you last, I've been married and divorced three times, and the marriage was never consummated."

"How can that be?" the friend asks.

"Well, the first marriage was to a Windows guy. As soon we got to the hotel on our honeymoon night, he fell asleep on the sofa."

"What about the second marriage?" the friend asks.

"The second marriage was to a Mac guy. On our honeymoon night I couldn't get him to stop playing around on his computer."

"And the third?"

"Oh, he was a Linux guy. On our honeymoon, he spent the entire night sitting on the end of the bed telling me about how great it was going to be."

[Queso]

Actually use a current Linux distro. I'm telling you, it's as ready now as Windows Vista is.

So it's not just about potential anymore. There's an actual mature product.

[IJ Reilly]

It's going to be great! :p

[Jiff Lemon]

Enterprise - it's really difficult to justify monster enterprise investment in Apple when Apple won't at least have an 'enterprise' tab on their website. That'd do it - that's all it would take - just a tab to keep all the enterprise crap under it but it would send out such a phenomenal message that people could legitimately start recommending Apple as an alternative to MS in the enterprise confident in the knowledge that Apple have setup a signpost ( which infers a roadmap at the very least)

Hopefully with the launch of the new I-phone, we may see something. Licensing active sync for the new i-phone was a fantastic decision. I'd love to see more intergration with windows - You're never going to take them down in one fail swoop, so little steps are the answer. We've an apple device that slots perfectly into a windows infrastructure. Now, make a Mac play nicely on a pure windows network and you've driven another wedge into the enterprise market. Then your ready to do battle on the serverside.

It's no good pointing and saying "we've already got leopard server", because you're not going to convince a 50 seat SME to throw out his 50 PC's and SBS server just because "Mac is better". People tend to stick with the devil they know.

[The Flashing Fi]

Actually use a current Linux distro. I'm telling you, it's as ready now as Windows Vista is.

So it's not just about potential anymore. There's an actual mature product.

I have used Linux. Specifically Ubuntu and Red hat.

Linux is great if all you're going to do is type up papers and browse the Internet (then again, any modern OS, including Windows, will do the same job just as well). But if you want to install any programs outside of Ubuntu's repositories, you're generally in for a headache, especially if you have to compile the program from source. You have to first try and compile it. Often times it won't compile the first time around, but you still need to try and compile it so you know what packages from the repository you're missing. So, you then have to load up Synaptic Package Manager and find all the packages you're missing and install them. Then you have to try and recompile again. Often times, you're on some Linux forum reading a post. It's a pain in the butt. If something goes wrong, you're screwed. You might as well reformat.

If you've ever gotten advice from someone who knows a lot about Linux, they will almost always tell you that you should create 3 partitions. 1 for your swap, 1 for your Home directory and 1 for your system files. The reason being, the odds of you having to reformat your OS is relatively high if you mess up badly.

And if you have a Windows specific program, Wine is pretty much your only hope, and often times, it's a dim one, unless you want to run MS Office (which you have Open Office as a decent replacement, unless you need absolute Office compatibility).

Linux is a great OS, and I'm not trying to bash it. It has definitely come a long way, but it's not as user friendly as Windows or Mac OS X (but is has made a lot of gains, and it continues to).

[surferfromuk]

Actually use a current Linux distro. I'm telling you, it's as ready now as Windows Vista is.

So it's not just about potential anymore. There's an actual mature product.

Hilarious...So your saying it's 'mom' ready then ?

[Eraserhead]

This is an interesting subject, and something I am writing about for my website. I have been doing a Xbox site for over six years now, and as of late, if you look the Xbox 360 is losing ground, which I think sucks, but a lot of it has to do with Microsoft as a whole, not just with Windows, has lost touch with what consumers want, and they have incredibly bad management.

The Xbox 360 is losing ground to the Wii because its a different take to gaming. Its losing ground to the PS3 because it got the software right but not the hardware at launch, whereas the PS3 was the other way round. Unfortunately its easier to fix the software than the hardware.

Microsoft won't die until Apple releases a version of OS that can be used on the majority of Intel and AMD motherboards and hardware.
Until then, Microsoft will supply the majority of OS's to the large majority of computers.
Apple is too expensive for the majority of Home Computer Users, and Businesses.

And its also missing business level support ;).

Seriously I think they may well release their OS for licensing with 10.7.

Hilarious...So your saying it's 'mom' ready then ?

I think dynamicv know's what he's talking about on this ;). The only missing thing is probably weaker consumer software support than OS X/Windows.

[Queso]

Hilarious...So your saying it's 'mom' ready then ?
Are you suggesting Windows is? :p

The Flashing Fi makes a great point about Linux being fine for those that want to browse the Internet and type up documents, which pretty much describes 95% of the business market from my point of view. As for home users, they fall into two categories, those that fix things themselves and those that buy in support. Both could be just at home with Linux as they are with Windows.

I also think that Synaptic and the package repositories are a big advantage for most users. Search for what you want, select it, install it, and keep it up to date and secure automatically, all from one application. There's nothing equivalent to that on either the Mac or Windows.

[IJ Reilly]

I think dynamicv know's what he's talking about on this ;). The only missing thing is probably weaker consumer software support than OS X/Windows.

That one big, huge missing thing. Consider that the knock against the Mac for years has been "there's no software for it." How many times have we heard this one? While it's never really been true, the perception of a lack of Mac software has mattered -- a lot -- to how acceptable the platform has been to the public at large. And this perception has lived on for decades, even through periods of respectable Mac market share, and with Apple aggressively marketing the Mac product, promoting software development, developing key applications themselves, and actively countering misperceptions.

Linux has none of these advantages. The Linux advocates will tell you that these inherent disadvantages and then some can be made up through the power of the grass roots and the free software community. I've been hearing these claims for well over ten years now. During all of this time, Linux was supposedly always "just on the verge" of becoming an important consumer OS -- the Microsoft slayer we've all be waiting for. It never happened.

Meanwhile, the Mac has been slowly but surely clawing away at Microsoft's market share. The results aren't earth shattering, but they are measurable. If you consider how much effort and money has gone into Apple's (albeit limited) success in competing with Microsoft, you can begin to appreciate the extremely daunting task facing the free software community and their very limited means for achieving it. I believe this is why the promise of Linux has remained unfulfilled, and probably always will.

[duncyboy]

I was speaking to a woman at work this week: she's about 40, married, two kids. And their desktop Windows PC has a virus or trojan. She was asking me what anti-virus I use and I said:

"When I had Windows it was the free version of AVG but I've got a Mac so I don't use any."

She looked completely non-plussed and I explained and she said:

"I didn't realise you could have a computer with something else on it?"

Some people out there don't even KNOW about OS X and Macs- you've got to make people like that aware of the existence, let alone convert them to the idea of switching. I would've thought the popularity of the iPod, iPhone and iTunes would've done that but apparently not.

I didn't even mention Linux to her. She'd had enough shocks for one day :)

[surferfromuk]

Are you suggesting Windows is? :p

The Flashing Fi makes a great point about Linux being fine for those that want to browse the Internet and type up documents, which pretty much describes 95% of the business market from my point of view. As for home users, they fall into two categories, those that fix things themselves and those that buy in support. Both could be just at home with Linux as they are with Windows.

I also think that Synaptic and the package repositories are a big advantage for most users. Search for what you want, select it, install it, and keep it up to date and secure automatically, all from one application. There's nothing equivalent to that on either the Mac or Windows.

Linux : I'm pretty techy but after having spent a couple of hours getting a wireless card to work in an Acer laptop under Ubuntu ( after massive internet research) I simply absolutely know it's not ready for the mainstream. Synaptics is great but 'your mom' wouldn't know what the heck it was and certainly wouldn't install anything remotely sounding of Gnomes!

Windows : I can't believe more people aren't simply just bored of endless little Windows hassles by now.

OSX : I'd love to see the app store app on the mac...but I find www.apple.com/downloads is a far more enjoyable experience than synaptics as far as finding new apps is concerned...

[chrono1081]

+1, the main problem is that it isn't a big enhancement, not that it isn't useable.

I have to disagree with that. Vista's unusability is why I have a mac. For most people vista will work fine but for hardcore users who are doing tons of data backup, iso creation, cpu intensive tasks the freezeups and slowness of the system makes it unusable. I know I have more machines at my disposal to test with then anyone in this forum and this is a problem I found with most (not all) of the vista machines I've been on. For some of us it truly is an unusable OS. But, I truly thank Vista because without Vista constantly crashing in the middle of large data transfers I wouldn't have a mac today :) (Not to mention Vistas problems keep me employed.)

[Queso]

Everyone seems to be deliberately missing my comment about business usage. Already IT departments spend months tailoring Windows builds to the particular needs of their users. Now as I'm working amongst IT people I'm noticing a definite trend. Senior IT management are very pro-Windows whereas the smarter techies are very pro-Linux. In a few years time these smarter techies are going to start getting into decision making positions. They aren't afraid of Linux like the current crop of managers who cut their teeth in Microsoft-only shops. I'm telling you now. Linux will start making serious headway into the corporate world before you know it.

[IJ Reilly]

I'm telling you now. Linux will start making serious headway into the corporate world before you know it.

Then I think you're missing my point too, which is that I've been hearing precisely the same prediction for over ten years. Linux has forever been right on the verge of major breakthrough.

[Eraserhead]

That one big, huge missing thing.

True, its a bit deal, probably the most important part of a computer IMO.

I have to disagree with that. Vista's unusability is why I have a mac. For most people vista will work fine but for hardcore users who are doing tons of data backup, iso creation, cpu intensive tasks the freezeups and slowness of the system makes it unusable.

Is this still happening with SP1, they've improved the file IO a lot...

@dynamicv, I'll respond to your posts on business tomorrow when I'm less tired.

[martychang]

Then I think you're missing my point too, which is that I've been hearing precisely the same prediction for over ten years. Linux has forever been right on the verge of major breakthrough.

And what you ALL fail to remember is that hordes of OEMs work on making Windows work out of the box on a multitude of PCs.

Apple works on making Mac OS X work out of the box on their Macs.

Aside from the neutered Xandros derivative on eeePCs and such, Linux doesn't SHIP, FACTORY INSTALLED ON ANY CONSUMER COMPUTERS.

You have so many problems because YOU installed it, likely on a device with at least one totally unsupported hardware component(i.e. Wifi). How much hardware support do you honestly think Windows or Mac OS has before the developers MAKE it fit onto the device?

The comparison between Linux and Windows/Mac that you all make is totally unfair. Try something like an EmperorLinux machine or another company which preinstalls Linux on computers(Dell Latitude + RHEL, etc.) and gives full warranties before you comment on the "usability" of these OSes.

[Queso]

Then I think you're missing my point too, which is that I've been hearing precisely the same prediction for over ten years. Linux has forever been right on the verge of major breakthrough.
No I got that. However, as I've already posted Linux has recently matured into something that is worth having now rather than a maybe for the future. Working as I do within large corporate IT departments virtually anyone in them with a brain is now Linux-savvy, and thanks to VMWare's ESX server it already has its foot in the server room door. Only management inertia is holding it back.

[Eraserhead]

Aside from the neutered Xandros derivative on eeePCs and such, Linux doesn't SHIP, FACTORY INSTALLED ON ANY CONSUMER COMPUTERS.

Um no.

120907

Everyone seems to be deliberately missing my comment about business usage.

I think from a business perspective Linux has more chance, but Office 2007 is very nice, and nicer than Open Office 2.0 or 3.0, so that seems like a fairly major missing feature.

[martychang]

Um no.

I forgot about those because... I don't know of anyone who actually bought them! They're A. only $50 less than their Windows counterparts, and B. HIDDEN on the Dell website. Grandma won't find them, Dell hides them under "open source", like they're ashamed or something.

The point still stands, are the Linux detractors stating their experiences of Linux based on the Dell-buntu they purchased? No: once again I know of nobody with the know-how to find them on the Dell site, know what they were buying, and be satisfied with an Inspiron.

Get them onto the Best Buy floors, or even somewhere visible on the Dell website, and then lets talk.

[Eraserhead]

They're A. only $50 less than their Windows counterparts,

Which is reasonable as that is roughly how much Windows costs to OEM's ;).

[martychang]

Which is reasonable as that is roughly how much Windows costs to OEM's ;).

I'm aware of that, that wasn't the main point. :p

The fact that they're hidden is a big problem, the biggest problem is the same one that keeps people from switching to the Mac, they just don't want to try something new. Letting them know it exists is the first step though.

[JG271]

It'll take a long time for them to 'die' more likely just fade out given the large market share they still have will take other companies a long time to slowly chip away at their market share.

Given that gates is leaving, and that Microsoft doesn't have much share of the internet market will leave them behind in years to come as the amount of things that can be done on the internet increases year-by-year.

[IJ Reilly]

No I got that. However, as I've already posted Linux has recently matured into something that is worth having now rather than a maybe for the future. Working as I do within large corporate IT departments virtually anyone in them with a brain is now Linux-savvy, and thanks to VMWare's ESX server it already has its foot in the server room door. Only management inertia is holding it back.

Only management inertia? You might as well say gravity. Seriously, at the risk of becoming repetitive, this, along with software support, has always been one of the main barriers to the adoption of alternative computer technology. It always has been for the Mac, which you'd have to admit, is the more mature platform and has a longer track record of support and development behind it. Still, the enterprise penetration is (like Linux) very limited. Given the long history of overly-optimistic predictions for widespread Linux adoption, I'd have to say I'll believe it when I see it and not before.

On one issue I suspect we agree, which is that Microsoft is more vulnerable now than they were just a few years ago. Their grip on the OEMs isn't as tight as it once was, and the recent growth of the Mac's market share strongly suggests that people are more open to alternatives today than they were five, ten or even 15 years ago. This is all to the good.

[LethalWolfe]

To save myself a fair amount of typing I'm just going to say I pretty much agree w/IJ. When people who *aren't* techies/IT guys/computer enthusiasts start saying, "Hey, Linux is pretty sweet and much easier to use than Windows" then I'll entertain the thought that Linux has finally turned the corner into a viable, mainstream alternative to Windows and OS X.


Lethal

[sushi]

When people who *aren't* techies/IT guys/computer enthusiasts start saying, "Hey, Linux is pretty sweet and much easier to use than Windows" then I'll entertain the thought that Linux has finally turned the corner into a viable, mainstream alternative to Windows and OS X.
Exactly. Linux is not ready for prime time use. Although versions like Ubuntu are getting better all the time, they still lack driver support that Windows provides and Open Office still lags behind Microsoft Office.

While it is easy to bash Microsoft of it's OS'es, when you consider what they must support hardware wise, they do a great job at it.

As you say, when the average customer changes their perception, then Linux will have hit the mainstream as a viable alternative.

[martychang]

To save myself a fair amount of typing I'm just going to say I pretty much agree w/IJ. When people who *aren't* techies/IT guys/computer enthusiasts start saying, "Hey, Linux is pretty sweet and much easier to use than Windows" then I'll entertain the thought that Linux has finally turned the corner into a viable, mainstream alternative to Windows and OS X.

But they'll never say that. Everyday users will NEVER be excited about technology. The non-technical users for whom I've installed Linux like it, they have no complaints, but they don't scream about how awesome it is and how easy it is to use.

It gets their work done(Office work included) and they never get viruses and it never crashes on them, and the applications are stable too, and its just as fast as it was when I first installed it for them. They're glad the computer doesn't complain about things they don't understand anymore, but nothing more: which is all you can hope for from these people.

P.S. To clarify, I agree it's probably not going to "take over" the desktop market, simply because it's not a whiz-bang product. I'm just saying it is ready for prime time, if it were given a chance by everyone.

[LethalWolfe]

But they'll never say that. Everyday users will NEVER be excited about technology.
Lots of everyday people are excited by Apple's technology.

It gets their work done(Office work included) and they never get viruses and it never crashes on them, and the applications are stable too, and its just as fast as it was when I first installed it for them. They're glad the computer doesn't complain about things they don't understand anymore, but nothing more: which is all you can hope for from these people.
To the best of your knowledge have any of the employees that were switched to Linux machines at work switched, or expressed an interest, in switching to Linux at home? If someone did express an interest in running Linux at home what would be your advice in regards to setting up a Linux box and finding compatible hardware and software to run on it? If someone wants a Windows PC they can go to Best Buy, Circuit City, or Dell and pick from a plethora of machines, accessories, hardware options, and applications to run. If someone wants a Mac they can to Apple.com, an Apple Store or a local Apple Reseller like Best Buy for their hardware and software needs. Are their comparable retail solutions if one wanted to run a Linux machine?


Lethal

[IJ Reilly]

If someone wants a Windows PC they can go to Best Buy, Circuit City, or Dell and pick from a plethora of machines, accessories, hardware options, and applications to run. If someone wants a Mac they can to Apple.com, an Apple Store or a local Apple Reseller like Best Buy for their hardware and software needs. Are their comparable retail solutions if one wanted to run a Linux machine?

You've put your finger on it. The open source advocates have always operated under the assumption that the "free, as in beer" aspects of Linux would overcome the disadvantages of not having a commercial infrastructure to promote and support it. In reality, this is a limitation, not an advantage.

[hiimamac]

I count that the 384657785 time Steve Jobs has contradicted himself.

You know, as much as I like Apple (although I can't stand their scheme of not releasing a decent mb or mini (graphics), and could go on and on how for PRO use (anything to do with graphics has to be done on a MBP or Mac Pro)...

I was reading a book not to long ago and found this...

The book went on to say about bosses and bad people to work for:
Does your boss make false claims?
Does your boss put down the competition?
and 3 other questions and went on to say the person is insecure and not good to work with, but seriously, every question could be anwsered YES to for Steve Jobs, especially the whole PUTTING down windows thing.

And wouldn't it be funny that since Apple can run windows (I don't see Apple asking Bill if it's okay) that if a company came out with a computer (HP, (new TOUCH), Dell, and said, hey apple, if you can run Windows, we're going to make machines that run OSX...

There are some you know (and I know this might come as a shock) that simply cannot stand OSX and this ranges from proffesional users (who need to be able to buy the fastest graphic card, to business users, that simply must have a piece of software that is PC only, to gamers who can sometimes get almost 2 times faster off of their CPU/FSB Memory).....I know, I know, hard to believe, but they are out there. So I don't think MSFT is going anywhere and being one of the richest companies, if something were to look bleak, Bill could say, the OS is not doing so well, then snap up Nvidia, Dell, HP, Sun and build a Computer/OS machine and let the "foul" anti trust crap go in one ear and out the other if it ever got that bad.

I just posted about the new TOUCH by HP (not out yet), imagine if Gates bought HP and then sun micro's LOOKING GLASS and then started his own line of PC's that ran windows (if you wanted) or HP's touch or "Project Looking Glass" by SUN, and you know the machines would be just as fast, if not faster than a mac, plus would allow you to upgrade to any graphic card, and probably come in way below a iMac or Mac Pro...

HP TOUCH (coming soon)...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwoAxSvYCzk
http://www.hp.com/united-states/campaigns/touchsmart/#/Main/

I see TOUCH computing becoming very popular in pro use for video editing, music production (touching faders), graphics (for mask's) and for the consumer, for games, video chatting, music mixing (DJ).

We'll see.

[jf8]

I have to disagree with that. Vista's unusability is why I have a mac. For most people vista will work fine but for hardcore users who are doing tons of data backup, iso creation, cpu intensive tasks the freezeups and slowness of the system makes it unusable. I know I have more machines at my disposal to test with then anyone in this forum and this is a problem I found with most (not all) of the vista machines I've been on. For some of us it truly is an unusable OS. But, I truly thank Vista because without Vista constantly crashing in the middle of large data transfers I wouldn't have a mac today :) (Not to mention Vistas problems keep me employed.)

How exactly is OS X is any better? On an iMac 2.4GHz 4GB RAM, I find no significant difference between OS X Leopard and Vista SP1 with regards to I/O performance or system performance while performing CPU-bound tasks. I find that the limiting factor when running either OS is hardware speed... unless the system is swapping, which is easy to do with 1GB of RAM on OS X or Vista.

[FoxyKaye]

Everyone seems to be deliberately missing my comment about business usage. Already IT departments spend months tailoring Windows builds to the particular needs of their users. Now as I'm working amongst IT people I'm noticing a definite trend. Senior IT management are very pro-Windows whereas the smarter techies are very pro-Linux. In a few years time these smarter techies are going to start getting into decision making positions. They aren't afraid of Linux like the current crop of managers who cut their teeth in Microsoft-only shops. I'm telling you now. Linux will start making serious headway into the corporate world before you know it.
I'll jump in to the fray here and say that I'm a one-woman tech department at a nonprofit, and it's on my roadmap to pull a sandbox system offline early next year and start playing with Ubuntu, OpenOffice, Gimp, Firefox and so forth with the intention of determining its feasibility for some of our more "everyday" workstation users (folks who check email, browse the Web, use Word/Excel, and that's about all).

To me, it's about how I want to spend my time: there has hardly been a user issue I couldn't solve in OS X, but Apple hardware is much more expensive. Plus, if Linux is still a "lighter" OS than OS X, I'll get more years of use out of our systems. I couldn't support as many Windows users as I do Mac users, which is why in a staff of 25 we have three Windows machines. So, if Ubuntu is as mature as I've been reading, and OpenOffice continues to evolve, I can get a better ROI on older Intel hardware that doesn't need to run Photoshop, Final Cut, or some Windows or Mac specific program like a few of our workstations do. I'm definitely investigating doing a pilot with 1-3 users next year with Ubuntu, and if it goes well, start deploying it into the mix come 2010.

Yeah, I'll need to re-learn Linux (I haven't touched it since the early days of Red Hat and Yellow Dog), and I'm sure our users will have some new support issues, but to me breaking my organization's complete dependency on Apple and Microsoft is a noble (if not completely attainable) goal. Especially since so much of the software, including Ubuntu itself, is free.

[FoxyKaye]

You've put your finger on it. The open source advocates have always operated under the assumption that the "free, as in beer" aspects of Linux would overcome the disadvantages of not having a commercial infrastructure to promote and support it. In reality, this is a limitation, not an advantage.
Ayup. The burden of support falls to the user. However, I'd argue that in some cases this is OK, especially for specific purposes and goals.

[IJ Reilly]

Ayup. The burden of support falls to the user. However, I'd argue that in some cases this is OK, especially for specific purposes and goals.

It may be okay for some purposes, but it's not an advantage.

[LethalWolfe]

You've put your finger on it. The open source advocates have always operated under the assumption that the "free, as in beer" aspects of Linux would overcome the disadvantages of not having a commercial infrastructure to promote and support it. In reality, this is a limitation, not an advantage.
Speaking of free (talk about a perfect setup), one of my favorite geek proverbs is, "Linux is only free if you time isn't worth anything." The free (as in free speech) aspect of Linux is what really sets it apart and while that bodes well for power users and techies it bodes not so well for typical end users who need more of a computing appliance and less of a computing erector set. I'd love to see Linx really come into it's own and make it a viable three way fight between Linx, OS X and Windows but I'm not going to hold my breath.


I see TOUCH computing becoming very popular in pro use for video editing, music production (touching faders), graphics (for mask's) and for the consumer, for games, video chatting, music mixing (DJ).
We'll see.
Speaking as an editor I don't see touch interfaces (like something from Minority Report) becoming all that popular for editing for the same reasons I don't see professional typists ditching their keyboards in favor of a gesture based touch interface.


Lethal

[IJ Reilly]

Speaking of free (talk about a perfect setup), one of my favorite geek proverbs is, "Linux is only free if you time isn't worth anything." The free (as in free speech) aspect of Linux is what really sets it apart and while that bodes well for power users and techies it bodes not so well for typical end users who need more of a computing appliance and less of a computing erector set. I'd love to see Linx really come into it's own and make it a viable three way fight between Linx, OS X and Windows but I'm not going to hold my breath.

This is almost exactly what I've been saying for years. It seems to really tick off the Linux advocates.