Could HP have cracked it? [Archive]

R-41157

Jun 21, 2008, 05:15 PM

zap2

Jun 21, 2008, 05:19 PM

But what do we think macers and converters, would anyone agree that PC notebooks are creeping up on the heels of apple in the desing stakes, and that apple may need to stop focusing so much on the damn iphone and get a couple new notebooks into the arena before they are taken over???

Opinions! :D

Well I think PC makers are getting "it" People want nice looking hardware, as well as good working. Apple should(and will) update its laptop line soon, I'd imagine, but as Dell and HP pour cash into the R&D side of computers, the gap on looks will be smaller. Thats when OS X kicks.

R-41157

Jun 21, 2008, 05:21 PM

Yeah i agree, I have had some experience with a very old apple OS and non of OS X but I can imagine it is awesome compared to vista, which is basically CRAP!!

neiltc13

Jun 21, 2008, 07:28 PM

In my experience, Windows Vista is far more stable than Leopard.

cwheatley

Jun 21, 2008, 07:55 PM

I've experienced the complete opposite on two OEM installations.

Digital Skunk

Jun 21, 2008, 08:03 PM

But what do we think macers and converters, would anyone agree that PC notebooks are creeping up on the heels of apple in the designing stakes, and that apple may need to stop focusing so much on the damn iphone and get a couple new notebooks into the arena before they are taken over???

Opinions! :D

Yes. The HP Blackbird, also by Voodoo and much better looking than their onyx or whatever is an amazing machine inside and out, and what I would like to see in the next Mac Pro. Not the large footprint, just the innards.

The 133 is nice, but what gets me is the esata connection and simple design. I hope the rest of their line follows suite, and I hope Windows makes an OS worthy to switch back so I can once again enjoy the various flavors of PC hardware.

In my experience, Windows Vista is far more stable than Leopard.

Sorry, but that's just your experience. I don't think Vista is as horrible as other make it out to be having used it quite a bit much, but personal experiences only go so far, especially on the web.

Leopard hasn't given me any trouble after the 5.2 release.

skye12

Jun 21, 2008, 08:07 PM

In my experience, Windows Vista is far more stable than Leopard.

Oh really. I have NEVER had one crash using Leopard. To insinuate
any Microsoft OS is stable is unfathomable.

SodiumBenzoate

Jun 21, 2008, 08:33 PM

Oh really. I have NEVER had one crash using Leopard. To insinuate
any Microsoft OS is stable is unfathomable.

And I haven't had a crash with Vista.. Honestly, I think OS X is better, but Vista is nowhere near as bad as its reputation would lead you to believe.

jonswan

Jun 21, 2008, 08:34 PM

Digital Skunk

Jun 21, 2008, 08:54 PM

I can't imagine a time when I'd go back to Windows, so the beauty of HP or whatever else is completely irrelevant. I don't choose Macs just because they're beautiful - it's the way I interact with them that counts (OSX, apps). Still, I'm glad to see companies making better hardware.

I agree, but I hope that Windows does get that level of interaction. Unfortunately, they haven't been doing too good a job.

localoid

Jun 21, 2008, 09:45 PM

...
But what do we think macers and converters, would anyone agree that PC notebooks are creeping up on the heels of apple in the designing stakes, and that apple may need to stop focusing so much on the damn iphone and get a couple new notebooks into the arena before they are taken over???
...

Eh, competition is good. ;) It keeps all the players working harder... Meanwhile, back on Reality Street, Apple's Mac sales numbers are good. Mac Unit Sales Grew 50% In May (http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2008/06/17/apple-mac-unit-sales-grew-50-in-may/).

ezekielrage_99

Jun 21, 2008, 09:52 PM

I'm not a big fan of Windows, but I do have to say that HP's new line up of Voodoo PCs are very impressive. Spec and design they are very good and as Windows product I think they will make a very good impact, however I don't really think they will compete with Apple.

IMHO these Voodoo PCs will sell very well however Apple does cover a different market so I can't really see any direct competition. Anyway the deal breaker for me would be no Mac OS X, not being able to use Rapidweaver, Coda and CSS Edit would be a disadvantage for me.

SchneiderMan

Jun 21, 2008, 09:54 PM

hp is a good company and their notebook designs are really nice

heatmiser

Jun 21, 2008, 11:01 PM

That's a sweet notebook, but they've got to bring the price down.

chrono1081

Jun 21, 2008, 11:38 PM

You guys may want to re-think your love for HP.

I used to think no one could make a better notebook then HP and bought one back in 2005. It was amazing. I sold them a lot while working in electronics retail. Then saw customers start to return the newer ones towards the end of working in retail (I'm talking a lot of returns). I thought that it was just people didn't know how to use vista cause I never had problems with it when I missed with it in the store. So I bought my new hp laptop and thought I liked vista...

Well, my hp out of the box worked find, I installed a few programs and got the "windows startup lag" (where you can have pretty much nothing start with windows, and windows will pop up and look loaded, but about 30 seconds later it "refreshes" and closes whatever you did and your back to to the desktop). This was annoying but I could deal with it. Then all my hot key buttons and cd rom drive died. I figured I got a lemon, no biggie, I just took it back and exchanged it since it was within the 15 day exchange. I saw this kind of thing happen all the time. (Co-workers who were anit-hp were giving me the "I told you so's" and pointed to the many returned hp's we had)

Well, long story short I got the same model and kept it for 5 months and sold it. It was horrible and the reason I now own a mac. Between HP's failing hardware and vistas unusability* I had enough. I sold my $1500 laptop for $500 and ordered a mac online. This was in 2008 when I sold it so models may be better but make sure if you go buy an hp you can return it if you are unhappy. I was really dissapointed as I saw I was not the only one with these problems and I really liked HP's designs. At the time they were the only ones offering nice looking PC's.

*As far as vista being unusable I really think it has to deal with all the different kinds of hardware out there. I don't think vista can run good on all of it. A few people can run vista with no problem. People who do surfing and basic use will probably have no problem. If you need to do things like heavy data backup, 3d modeling, coding, hardcore use I consider vista unusable. I finally saw where customers were coming from. Data transfers would take 12 - 15 hours on vista, and often freeze compared to 2 hours on xp with no freezes. Any intensive applications would just shut down with some error every now and then. I wasn't able to do what I needed to do on a pc with vista. (XP worked fine). Not to mention my hp wasn't the only vista machine I had problems on. I have hundreds of machines I can play/test on at work on any given day.

Now, to those about to flame me for hating Vista...I just want to know one thing. If it looked exactly like Windows XP instead of being all glossy and shiny would you still prefer it over XP?

QCassidy352

Jun 21, 2008, 11:47 PM

it looks exactly like every other generic pc notebook out there, just smaller. What are you all talking about?
:confused::confused::confused:

thegoldenmackid

Jun 22, 2008, 12:13 AM

I'm pretty sure neiltc13 was being sarcastic...

HP with Vodoo is getting better, But that powerbrick is still rather unattractive and the ports. One of the greatest things about Apple's hardware is the familiarity and consistency. Alan Mulally, CEO of Ford, formerly of Boeing when he first took the job took home a different Ford model everynight, from the Focus to the GT and he realized that on every car, the dash, console and other controls were all different. He thought this was dumb, where as on a Mac, the ports are all the same, the CD Drive is always on the right iThink (iMac, MacBook, MacBook Pro). I just hope HP keeps consistency.

chrono1081

Jun 22, 2008, 12:41 AM

it looks exactly like every other generic pc notebook out there, just smaller. What are you all talking about?
:confused::confused::confused:

I have to agree. After finding a picture of it I don't see anything impressive...

Not to mention Voodoo PC was always waaaay overpriced. I was always able to configure a Hypersonic model with a lot better specs for a lot less money. Now that Voodoo is part of HP this may have changed.

hexonxonx

Jun 22, 2008, 01:02 AM

I don't think it looks so good either.

I have been a long time owner of HP laptops and desktops, ever since the mid 90s and they have always been some of the most reliable computers. I can never say a bad thing about them.

I still have a HP laptop that works fine, a dual core 1.8 with the piano finish. That laptop looks better than the new ones discussed in this thread.

surferfromuk

Jun 22, 2008, 05:11 AM

Right, I am not yet a true mac convert as I still have not bought a mac, so I am kind of on the fence still. But I wonder if HP might have cracked it and designed a better looking laptop than Apple.

Now, i am no expert and this may even be posted in the wrong section but the new HP Voodoo 133 is fricking gorgeous! And considering all this talk of macbook and MBP redesigns that just are not appearing I would have to say the 133 is a better looking notebook, than even the Air in my opinion.

Im not refering particularily to quality, operatings systems and specs (even though it seems, other than the mac OS the 133 is packing just as much punch as at least the air). It is just a shame HP couldnt have held off until Montevina and managed to get a 2.4ghz in there.

But what do we think macers and converters, would anyone agree that PC notebooks are creeping up on the heels of apple in the designing stakes, and that apple may need to stop focusing so much on the damn iphone and get a couple new notebooks into the arena before they are taken over???

Opinions! :D

Everyone's copying Apple - that's enough to know they are the leader...

And recently this copying has become a shameless epidemic - everyone is simply JUST copying Apple almost pixel for pixel.

but this is the real point - the copy is largely just superficial - it's a surface copy - 'similar design', 'similar ad's', 'similar features'.

I wonder if this is why Apple are releasing Snow Leopard as their next OS - it's almost as if they're saying 'OK, so you can mimic what's on the top but there is no way you can engineer what we've got going on underneath'.

Now that's already the case - OS X running on 64-bit Unix, totally integrated H/W and S/W, integrated apps, integrated H/W - > Web - > OS on a variety of technological fronts. All flawlessly executed and delivering 100's of little advantages that add up to a significantly superior experience.

As for the HP design is it a great looking copy of kit but it's sadly running Vista and so you personal productive daily experience is going to be VISTA not OS X.

BTW - is it Aluminium ? Does it have the magnetic power cable, does it have the backlit keyboard, does it have a multi-touch touch pad, does it have nasty vendor specific drivers to integrate it with Vista that cause all kinds of problems, does it have it's battery in the centre so it's perfectly balanced and cools between your knees rather than on your thigh, does it have an LED screen, does it have slot loading drive or a pop out caddy, does it have FW 800, what's the video card? - I don't know the specs and It could have a couple of these points but I doubt it has them all - so again it's a superficial copy...

Erasmus

Jun 22, 2008, 06:56 AM

Ugh, no. How is this better looking than a black Macbook?
Funniest thing about this, is the pictures I saw of it had smudges all over it. On the trackpad (which is wierd, I wouldn't want bumps all over a trackpad!) and on the front edge on both sides of the trackpad.

I know it sounds a lot like " The MBP is the pinnacle of awesome, and anything else is inferior", but it just seems like they tried to go for the simple look, copying Apple, but went too far.

And then there's this:
http://www.anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.aspx?i=3331&p=2
AAARGH! The reflections are EVERYWHERE!!!

Seriously, if someone wants to make a more sexy computer than a MBP, they have to do a better job than that. I want to see design when I look at it, not something that screams "I'm a Black Macbook, but shinier!". Design shouldn't be about just beating the competition, it should be about form and function, without any other goals and targets in mind. OK< I think I'm ramblng a bit now, and so I'll quit before I start sounding like an Arts student.

If I was designing the next MBP, I would have it flaunt its features. I don't think Apple should be afraid of the air intakes and exhaust, especially as bigger ones mean Apple can use bigger fans, and have them spin slower, thereby both increasing cooling, and reducing noise. Materials should never be chosen for aesthetics alone in my opinion. Carbon fibre is fine, it is very strong, and therefore gives the sense of power, but then to polish it like that just takes all that away. Clearly Apple chose Aluminium because although it does look great, it is also very highly heat conductive, quite strong, and very resistant to corrosion, and serious damage. Sure, it will dent if you hit it hard enough, but it will absorb blows. Carbon Fibre won't, and the Macbook's polycarbonate is even worse. I'd rather have a dent than a crack.

It's uncanny how good things tend to look when aesthetics are ignored, and the effort is instead expended on making it as good as possible at its intended role. Perfect example of this is any modern aircraft versus so many architect designed buildings. Of course there are plenty of counterexamples too, but in my opinion, computers definitely fit into the "design for function is sexy" category.

And I think I'd better quit rambling now before I lose all credibility as an engineer/scientist.

mixmacface

Jun 22, 2008, 08:34 AM

Yeah i agree, I have had some experience with a very old apple OS and non of OS X but I can imagine it is awesome compared to vista, which is basically CRAP!!

i'm sorry, but vista, as far as i'm concerned, is not crap. i've worked on several os's before, and whenever i encounter leopard, it's not as spectacular as some would lead you on to believe. if you tone down the visual for vista, it runs SO smoothly and a lot quicker. you can turn off the "alerts" that come standard, and everybody complains about. i just don't agree that vista is crap.

and the voodoo lines are alright. . nothing to write home about. and it's a little pricey.

my 2c.

Hmac

Jun 22, 2008, 09:17 AM

Right, I am not yet a true mac convert as I still have not bought a mac, so I am kind of on the fence still. But I wonder if HP might have cracked it and designed a better looking laptop than Apple.

LOL. We've all been hearing about "Apple killers" and "iPod killers" and "iPhone killers" starting 20 years ago. I remember the Zune (R.I.P.). Microsoft, and the bulk of the electronics press, were pretty sure THAT device was going to put Apple in its place.

Since 1977, the only company that has ever come close to "killing Apple" was Apple itself.

So, HP has developed a "MacBook killer", huh? Yawn.

jodelli

Jun 22, 2008, 10:34 AM

I've sort have been wondering why one or two PC manufacturers haven't had a go at embellishing some flavor of Unix for their own machines. Want compatibility? Offer a dual boot or some version of Wine. There are machine specific versions of Linux beginning to show up.
Such as a limited version of Xandros for Asus, the full version of which can run iTunes for instance.

Hey, I don't have 10.5 yet, and probably won't until purchasing a new Mac. Tiger still works for me, for now.

jemeinc

Jun 22, 2008, 10:53 AM

I agree, but I hope that Windows does get that level of interaction. Unfortunately, they haven't been doing too good a job.

'Windows' probably will never get the same "level of interaction" as Mac users enjoy- though 'Microsoft' might.. They've shown that they see merit in the way Apple, and specifically Steve Jobs, insist on controlling the whole user experience with the XBOX and recently the new Zune.. It just works better that way.. It has to- when you're building software that only runs with a limited # of hardware it makes everything easier.. It's a good system for todays consumer.. Unfortunately the very same thing that made Windows the huge success it became is also the major reason it will never be as good as it could be.. When you have literally thousands of hardware options things will just go awry at times..

Now, to be fair things go wrong on Macs too, but troubleshooting is so much simpler when everything is in house.. The solution is simple as well- Apple sends out an update to millions of users in one shot that corrects any software and driver issues and for the most part things are well again.. As opposed to MS who has to coordinate any updates to fix issues with the hardware companies- which can take time and lead to all kinds of unresolved issues..

Some may not like Jobs' insistence on controlling the whole user experience- but there's no denying it works.. He was just 30 years ahead of his time with the concept.. Back in the beginning of computers' first growth spurt people actually wanted cheap boxes so they could upgrade themselves and use their own hardware.. Most of the people using computers then were hardcore- they were willing to deal with any issues resulting from this "plug and play" mindset..More importantly, they knew how to deal with the issues.. Today, most consumers just want it to work smoothly- Apples business model gives them the best shot of achieving this..

neiltc13

Jun 22, 2008, 12:49 PM

I'm pretty sure neiltc13 was being sarcastic...

I most definitely was not. The number of times I have seen the "spinning beach ball" in OS X is ridiculous and the frequency increased significantly when I moved to Leopard compared to Tiger.

Conversely, all applications which I've run under Vista seem to be very stable with the "Please report to Microsoft" window being a very rare occurrence. I have never once seen a Vista machine lock up completely, whereas on several occasions on ALL of the Macs which I have owned I have had a "kernel panic" where I'm told to turn off my computer.

I'd say both are about equal.

macintosh tech

Jun 22, 2008, 01:02 PM

i'm sorry, but vista, as far as i'm concerned, is not crap. i've worked on several os's before, and whenever i encounter leopard, it's not as spectacular as some would lead you on to believe. if you tone down the visual for vista, it runs SO smoothly and a lot quicker. you can turn off the "alerts" that come standard, and everybody complains about. i just don't agree that vista is crap.

and the voodoo lines are alright. . nothing to write home about. and it's a little pricey.

my 2c.

Sorry, Vista is indeed crap. That is very reason why we are not deploying it campus-wide at this point. The Dells come in and we DS down an XP build. Vista is at minimum a year out. And we are a rather forward thinking support group with some of the best deployment tools around. Heck Dell just extended XP on their machines by "popular demand." Now, this group has to be one that isn't doing mass deployment (it doesnt matter for people doing this) and is large enough to get Dell to do this. That is significant and shows that many people do not want for various reasons. Reasons that make Vista crap :D

And you hit on a interesting point, the amount of work that must be down from the start to get Vista to not be crap. The visuals, the alerts, etc. That suggests that they didn't have the user in mind when developing Vista, specifically enterprise environments. I mean sure, we throw together a master DS build and we can do it that way. But many organizations are doing it that way, much less small companies. Many people are sitting this one out and with good reason.

I most definitely was not. The number of times I have seen the "spinning beach ball" in OS X is ridiculous and the frequency increased significantly when I moved to Leopard compared to Tiger.

Conversely, all applications which I've run under Vista seem to be very stable with the "Please report to Microsoft" window being a very rare occurrence. I have never once seen a Vista machine lock up completely, whereas on several occasions on ALL of the Macs which I have owned I have had a "kernel panic" where I'm told to turn off my computer.

I'd say both are about equal.

Check the logs. Chances are it is hardware. Just about every time we have a machine act that way it is hardware. Or, it is the specific application, Word and Quark are big ones. I can't blame Apple if Word is causing machines to lock up, nor can you say it is Leopard related if you don't have any evidence for that.

surferfromuk

Jun 22, 2008, 01:55 PM

I most definitely was not. The number of times I have seen the "spinning beach ball" in OS X is ridiculous and the frequency increased significantly when I moved to Leopard compared to Tiger.

Conversely, all applications which I've run under Vista seem to be very stable with the "Please report to Microsoft" window being a very rare occurrence. I have never once seen a Vista machine lock up completely, whereas on several occasions on ALL of the Macs which I have owned I have had a "kernel panic" where I'm told to turn off my computer.

I'd say both are about equal.

You must be running Perrian or some other third-party enhancement. Perrian, whilst great, causes no end of system issues, spinning beach ball, slowdowns and crashes.

A bog standard OS X without any crap simply does not crash. If it is you have some other problem - perhaps ram or hardware ( third-party or otherwise). I suggest you invest some time in tracking it down. Your problems are NOT from a core deficiency in OS X.

Let me repeat - OS X on good Apple hardware, without any dodgy third party crap simply NEVER CRASHES - NEVER!.

I speak from YEARS of experience running OS X on many different macs and pushing it extremely hard - OS X is a rock...

neiltc13

Jun 22, 2008, 03:39 PM

You must be running Perrian or some other third-party enhancement. Perrian, whilst great, causes no end of system issues, spinning beach ball, slowdowns and crashes.

A bog standard OS X without any crap simply does not crash. If it is you have some other problem - perhaps ram or hardware ( third-party or otherwise). I suggest you invest some time in tracking it down. Your problems are NOT from a core deficiency in OS X.

Let me repeat - OS X on good Apple hardware, without any dodgy third party crap simply NEVER CRASHES - NEVER!.

I speak from YEARS of experience running OS X on many different macs and pushing it extremely hard - OS X is a rock...

Well if we're going to compare things like this then Vista is definitely the same.

surferfromuk

Jun 22, 2008, 05:15 PM

Well if we're going to compare things like this then Vista is definitely the same.

Well, that's comforting to know (should I ever have the utterly hideous displeasure of having to use it again).

jemeinc

Jun 22, 2008, 05:43 PM

Well if we're going to compare things like this then Vista is definitely the same.

No, it's not.. Vista will always have the potential for crappy third party hardware issues- OSX will not.. Huge advantage.. Sure, hardware goes wrong with Apple, like anyone else- but fixing it is easily diagnosed and quickly acted upon.. Diagnosing hardware issues with Windows can be a long, arduous process.. Fixing those problems, once diagnosed, can be down right nerve wracking..

There's huge advantages to having the whole system "in house".. This, IMHO, makes OSX a far superior user experience.. I'm far from a Windows hater- I actually think that MS does an outstanding job with the challenges they face..

MattZani

Jun 22, 2008, 06:04 PM

Looks nice, a little pricey, but very nice. Not the kind of thing I expected Voodoo to make though, this must be there only system without a dedicated GPU!

ezekielrage_99

Jun 22, 2008, 08:06 PM

LOL. We've all been hearing about "Apple killers" and "iPod killers" and "iPhone killers" starting 20 years ago. I remember the Zune (R.I.P.). Microsoft, and the bulk of the electronics press, were pretty sure THAT device was going to put Apple in its place.

Since 1977, the only company that has ever come close to "killing Apple" was Apple itself.

So, HP has developed a "MacBook killer", huh? Yawn.

I tend to agree, there have been very few products to date that can compete with Apple sense to industrial design and integration.

iPod is still king and the Macbook Pro IMHO is still the benchmark for laptops however I really do think HP has designed some very nice look Voodoo PCs and laptop. However a good looking laptop or PC is still not nearly enough to go back to the Windows side.

Wotan31

Jun 22, 2008, 08:51 PM

It looks nice at first glance, but there are plenty of ultra-portables out there, that I don't think this one is anything revolutionary. I'm not a fan of HP quality control, or their India-based tech support. Plus the whole Windows OS thing is rather a big turn-off.

Pass.

28monkeys

Jun 22, 2008, 09:04 PM

chrono1081

Jun 23, 2008, 12:54 AM

For the posters above, I LOVE Vista! Its the reason I own a mac :)

Seriously though the OS is NOT good. If it was why would Microsoft start selling XP again? Not to mention use it in a corporate environment once. I spent MONTHS downgrading hundreds of machines back to XP because vista was unusable (I am still doing this!). Not only does it crash all the time, but it's extremely slow unless you have a high end system. People can say I'm wrong all they want but I know from hands on experience of hundreds of computers. Most people dont.

Maestro88

Jun 23, 2008, 04:07 AM

And I haven't had a crash with Vista.. Honestly, I think OS X is better, but Vista is nowhere near as bad as its reputation would lead you to believe.

That's totally right. As long as you stick to word pad, and don't plug anything into it that isn't supposed to be there like mouse and screen, it's totally ok and you can always just reset if it crashes. I also like solitaire and the start button is my favourite feature I love to scroll through the menus to find my app (word pad)

Maestro88

Jun 23, 2008, 04:22 AM

I speak from YEARS of experience running OS X on many different macs and pushing it extremely hard - OS X is a rock...[/QUOTE]

I have 16 gigs of ram here are the apps I have had running all at the same time for days at a time:

Adobe CS3 suite including photoshop, illustrator, indesign, bridge, dreamweaver etc.
iphoto, iweb, itunes, idvd, imovie and remote desktop and aperture
logic pro with a stack of music loaded the vienna symphony library, native instruments packages and high quality grand piano libraries all fully loaded with reverbs and production plug ins.
preview, mail, safari, firefox, ichat address book waveburner reason dvd player quicktime system preferences isync disk utility trasmit ftp activity monitor terminal airport utility calculator dashboard widgets google earth text edit xcode, digital audio control apps, pages, numbers and keynote.

oh yeah, and calendar. Put it sleep, wake it up, hit play in logic.

AS gordon ramsay would say F me!!

It all works.

Yes I have had crashes, you wonder why I don't have them all the time - it just works. I have to say ms word is absolute garbage it dies all the time, I've removed it and use pages now no ms for me. ALso the adobe stuff is mediocre in the reliability department, but it never brings down OSX. The worst app is remote desktop - again though, never hurts OSX. I've had kernel panics on rare occassion again check out that list of apps running at the same time. And I always have some combination of the above going

The beauty of Leopard is NOT skin deep, and it's not just security features, it's the enjoyment of having something wonderfully and lovingly engineered from the ground up over such a long period of time. Removal of PPC redundant code is just going to seal the deal for OSX. It's portable, and their use of big cats to describe it's "nature" is totally apt... it is smart flexible and beautifully designed. Perfect? No, it's software! But it is great and it has done more for me in productivity and helping my business than windows EVER could. I love it! Thanks Apple!

I have Vista running in VMWARE tried it out for a while, it's garbage garbage garbage hated it completely, it's stupid rediculous design and sorry but the windows war is over they've lost round two and it's just now a matter of time before all the old stuff gets replaced with linux and macs. It took 20 years to build that user base, it's going to take as long for it to disappear but disappear it will.

neiltc13

Jun 23, 2008, 04:26 AM

crash all the time

This is a ridiculous exaggeration.

Check the logs. Chances are it is hardware. Just about every time we have a machine act that way it is hardware.

I guess we'll have to say that my iBook, iMac, second iMac, MacBook, third iMac and second MacBook were all faulty hardware then?

Ad Pro

Jun 23, 2008, 06:57 AM

ermm... nope. sorry but there is no way that looks anywhere near as good as any Mac notebook, in my opinion anyway.

tmelvin

Jun 23, 2008, 08:10 AM

In my experience, Windows Vista is far more stable than Leopard.

LOL. That's funny. Really. I BETA tested Vista and ran the RTM version for a year. I've only been using Leopard for about 6 months now, and it's far more stable than Vista is, or ever will be. Vista is total garbage.

surferfromuk

Jun 23, 2008, 01:32 PM

I guess we'll have to say that my iBook, iMac, second iMac, MacBook, third iMac and second MacBook were all faulty hardware then?

Seriously, WTF are you running on your macs to make them crash cos there is certainly no way your experiences with Mac are typical. Your telling me you've had 6 macs in a row and they all crash? I'd hate to call you a liar but I really find that hard to believe.

However, if that is the case you absolutely must be doing something totally unique and totally corruptive to each and every one of your past macs. There must be something common to all your computers if they ALL exhibit this behaviour...Do you smack them about maybe ?

Without sounding exasperated or repeating myself - just WTF are you doing to have major stability problems on six macs...

I just don't get it...your story makes no sense and defies the experiences of millions...

Alpha04024

Jun 29, 2008, 08:36 AM

Seriously I can't understand some replies.

The voodoo laptop is nice, I like it on white and black. But it's exactly a copy of a mbp, the same position of everything, the same trackpad, only one button, allegedly with some kind of touch gestures....it can't be that hard to design a laptop which is not like a mac :confused:

After that...how's that leopard and vista are equal? I mean...are you serious? Vista is annoying and apps don't run smooth most of the times. Some friends use vista and they have lots of problems everywhere, I've been using mac for years and I had never a problem. It can stay on months and runs perfectly.

Sorry but I can't believe it

Btw I don't know how there is people who say leopard runs bad, I have a 2year old imac and a new mbp and both go perfect :confused:

Sesshi

Jun 29, 2008, 09:04 AM

OS X has generally been pretty reliable (the hardware, not so much), but KP's are not entirely unknown - like Vista, this is undoubtedly a hardware issue. Unlike Microsoft however, Apple has no excuses when they control both the OS and the HW. Since this time last year I've seen BSOD's on Vista on only two machines - a Macbook Pro and a Pro. Never on a 'real' Windows machine. And I own far more machines which get used for intensive tasks than >90% of you. OS X hangups are - when compared with Vista also in the same timeframe - of an acceptable frequency but not ideal. And as neiltc13 says, general application stability is worse in some cases under Leopard.

When comparing Leopard vs Vista stability, you have to compare Apples with apples. Same-class hardware sourced fully configured from comparable manufacturers. Part of the problem of the Windows ecosystem is a large number of people who build their own machines incompetently then blame problems on Microsoft for example. You've got a lot of switchers who had previously been using DIY'd machines who marvel at OS X's stability, or buy bottom-feeder machines and complain that it's too slow to run Vista. Well no **** Sherlock.

At first I wasn't really tempted by the Envy - because as the above poster has said, it's practically an Air in terms of specs. However it looks like being an ultra-rigid machine and from what I can see, might be a better Air with the bugs taken out.

The only obstacle to me being further tempted is that I have a bunch of Sony TZ's I'm quite happy with, and I've also rid myself of a Lenovo X300 recently as it wasn't quite as functional to me as an ultraportable as the TZ is. The Envy being a heavier, less functional X300 I'm not so tempted with it in terms of spec - but as the photos have dribbled out I do like the look, I do like the fact that it can be custom-painted (although lacquered carbon is probably a better look than most paint jobs) by the manufacturer. I might pick up one for casual use. I'm also interested in the Omen, but I think I'll wait for distribution channels to be available over here before I take a serious look at it.

As far as the Air is concerned I have two of them now. The Air is undoubtedly simultaneously the crappiest and best looking so-called ultraportable I've ever owned. The reason I still hang onto them is obviously for running OS X apps. Why two? One as a spare when the other is in Applecare - an all too typical problem with inferior Apple hardware.

cheekybobcat

Jun 29, 2008, 09:16 AM

IMOP working hardware is better than good-looking hardware. I do agree that Apple needs to update their laptop line soon. My uncle is buying me a MBP for my 18th birthday because I'm working for him and he says I'll need it (I'm not about to argue with him). Hopefully, by next January a new line will be available. If not, I'm still getting one.

ucfgrad93

Jun 29, 2008, 10:17 AM

I have to say, that I have seen some new HP laptops and I think they are very nice looking. Much improved in my opinion. But I still can't run OS X on it, so I won't be purchasing one.

SodiumBenzoate

Jul 3, 2008, 11:45 PM

BTW - is it Aluminium ?

Carbon fiber, which is probably better than aluminum as it's not susceptible to denting and it's a far superior insulator (the case won't get as hot).

Does it have the magnetic power cable

No. Apple patented that one, it would be tricky to design a magnetic power cable that doesn't infringe on the patent.

does it have the backlit keyboard

Yes.

does it have a multi-touch touch pad

Yes.

does it have nasty vendor specific drivers to integrate it with Vista that cause all kinds of problems,

It has vendor specific drivers.. whether or not they're "nasty" and "cause all kinds of problems" remains to be seen.

does it have it's battery in the centre so it's perfectly balanced and cools between your knees rather than on your thigh

The battery does look to be centered. As far as cooling, it vents out the sides.

does it have an LED screen

Yes.

does it have slot loading drive or a pop out caddy

The included external drive is slot loading.

does it have FW 800

No, but it has eSATA, which is faster than FW 800 but can't branch.

what's the video card?

Intel GMA X3100, same as the Macbook Air.

I don't know the specs and It could have a couple of these points but I doubt it has them all - so again it's a superficial copy...

It has most of them. Keep in mind it's a MBA competitor, not a MBP competitor (some of the things you mentioned are only included on the MBP, like FW 800 and a video card other than Intel's integrated solution).