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MacRumors
Dec 8, 2003, 11:05 AM
ThinkSecret reports (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/imovie35.html) that Apple is wrapping up development on what appears to be iMovie 3.5.

ThinkSecret is unable to provide details as to specific improvements found in the upcoming iMovie revision, but speculates it may be released at MacWorld San Francisco 2004.

The last major revision to Apple's consumer DV editing application came at MacWorld San Francisco 2003 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/01/20030109032752.shtml) with the release of iMovie 3.0 (http://www.apple.com/imovie/).

Doctor Q
Dec 8, 2003, 11:21 AM
If there are no details about the changes in iMovie, I guess it's up to us to speculate. Apple could easily add features beyond previous versions, but it has to maintain the distinction between iMovie and the "prosumer" Final Cut Express and Final Cut Pro, so Apple's motto should not be "the sky's the limit" for iMovie. Apple should add features to keep iMovie up to date and "best of breed", while resisting the temptation to add features that will complicate the interface and reduce ease of use for the majority of users.

So what features do we WANT to see?

jMc
Dec 8, 2003, 11:24 AM
This is also just a point release (admittedly a .5), so I'd expect nothing more than speed improvements and interface tweaking...

jx

johnnyjibbs
Dec 8, 2003, 11:26 AM
It would be nice for it to be a little faster. In comparison to Final Cut Express it's pretty slow on my machine, but then I do only have 256MB RAM (FCE is fine though, and you're supposed to have >384!)

liloconf
Dec 8, 2003, 11:29 AM
i'd rather have a final cut express 1.5 but hey thats cool, i like ken and his effects :)

Swinny
Dec 8, 2003, 11:32 AM
This is good news...would be nice to see iMovie getting a bit of a push on its own like the other iLife Apps have in recent times - seems to have become the poor relative of the 4...If they can match at least some of the functionality of Avid's Free DV then that'd be cool!

-----------------------------------
Webmaster // www.iMovie-user.com
The only iMovie resource.

crawdad62
Dec 8, 2003, 11:33 AM
I certainly hope so. iMovie3 when it was released was buggy as heck. They (Apple) have kind of put it on the back burner with the release of FCE. While FCE is certainly much cheaper than FCP it's learning curve is fairly steep and more than most people need for putting together a home movie. iMovie fits the bill quite nicely.

Bandit
Dec 8, 2003, 11:36 AM
Maybe we will see an entire ilife update on MWSF. It seems like iPhoto is about due for an update. I'd be happy with an updated iLife aat MWSF and nothing else. I don't have the money to buy any new hardware announcements.

SeaFox
Dec 8, 2003, 11:47 AM
Sounds like it's going to be a real movie-oriented Macworld SF. Final Cut Pro being a major topic and now this.

...and NO everyone, that does not mean video iPods.

milatchi
Dec 8, 2003, 11:53 AM
It's about time because iMovie 3 is a P.O.S. Oh Well, good thing I use Fianl Cut Express.

ITR 81
Dec 8, 2003, 11:57 AM
Hmm looks like my new iLife update predication is now coming true.

entropy1980
Dec 8, 2003, 12:01 PM
Doubt it would happen but.... I would love it if they would add a feature like Muvee Auto-Producer...http://www.muvee.com/
If you haven't heard of it, it's a pretty sweet piece of windows software I wish they had a mac version, Windows crappy built-in Movie editor even has a similar feature that takes raw footage and "magically" cuts out junk and matches the tempo of the music... pretty neat that's my wish for iMovie 3.5 :D

Gymnut
Dec 8, 2003, 12:01 PM
Well I use FCP 3 but considering I started using iMovie and then eventually outgrew it, any updates to this fantastic beginner editor is good news.

MCCFR
Dec 8, 2003, 12:07 PM
G5-savvy and designed for a 970FX iMac announced at MWSF to mark the 20th anniversary of the original Mac.

All the signs point to this, you mark my words.;)

Trowaman
Dec 8, 2003, 12:09 PM
Agreed, I use FCP 3 as well, but let's give the newbies some more stuff to work with. I think people in iMovie should finally get the ability to use infinate video and audio tracks. We gave them audio pen points in iMovie 3.0.

Enjoy your new toys :D

andyeah, let's update the entire iLife.

lewdvig
Dec 8, 2003, 12:31 PM
Hopefully they get some of the annoying audio sync issues fixed. I have read all the tips on the subject, but I still find that anything over 40 minutes loses sync whther its output to tape or DVD. Argh!

I have FCE now, so hopefully I can try a few of the audio track tricks I have read.

JoeRadar
Dec 8, 2003, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by SeaFox
...and NO everyone, that does not mean video iPods.
It is called an iBook.

Seriously, I would like to see a sub-12" iBook with a low power G3-based chip. The goal: small, good battery life, email & web. Maybe call it the iTraveler. Add iTunes and ripped DVDs, and you have an iPod-like that does video.

sethypoo
Dec 8, 2003, 12:53 PM
An update for iLife would be awesome. iPhoto needs help, it's due for an update.

I'd like to see some tutorials for switching from iMovie to FCP or FCE built into iMovie, that would help a lot of comsumer users switch (eventually) over to the pro line.

memphismac
Dec 8, 2003, 01:24 PM
Potentially stupid question:

I just ordered Panther (upgrading my 400mhz DVSE iMac).

If upgrades come in January, will I be able to upgrade the iLife apps that I'll be getting in Panther? Say I get iMovie 3 in Panther, will I able to up it to iMovie 4?

(can you tell that I've been behind the iLife/OSX revolution?)


Brian

mkaake
Dec 8, 2003, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by memphismac
Potentially stupid question:

I just ordered Panther (upgrading my 400mhz DVSE iMac).

If upgrades come in January, will I be able to upgrade the iLife apps that I'll be getting in Panther? Say I get iMovie 3 in Panther, will I able to up it to iMovie 4?

(can you tell that I've been behind the iLife/OSX revolution?)


Brian

yeah, the iapps are free for download (kind of... if you don't have a superdrive on your mac, there't no idvd in your future, but other than that)... so upgrading them is always free...

matt

javabear90
Dec 8, 2003, 04:47 PM
Somtime awhile ago, I heard somthing about Steve having some intresting things up their sleeves involving iLife. I wonder if these things could be released at MWSF. that would be cool:)

Da Tedsta

zaphoyd
Dec 8, 2003, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by milatchi
It's about time because iMovie 3 is a P.O.S. Oh Well, good thing I use Fianl Cut Express.

Amen

FCE is fast, non buggy, and a joy to use.

iMovie may be easy, but it's performance is so bad that it frustrates the people who it is designed for. I have used it on a dual 2.0Ghz G5 with 2GB of ram. It is still unbelievably sluggish and annoying. The window mode introduced in version 3 I think has something to do with it. 2.1 was a full screen app and seemed to hog the processor and actually work. 3.x went to window mode and performance dropped off a cliff. How can FCE be soooo fast, and iMovie sooooo slow?

Once I needed to use imovie's fairy dust effect [one of iMovie's high points is it's great effects, and all the effects avaliable via third parties] getting a clip into imovie, applying the fairy dust in the right place, then exporting it back to FCE was almost an all day task.

One thing I would like to see in a new iMovie is the ability to play your iMovies back on a TV. This feature was present in 2.x and to an extent in 3.0.0, but apple promptly killed it with 3.0.1.



In 2.x you could plug a TV into your mac's video out port, mirror the display and press the full screen preview button, thus playing the movie on the tv. No need go buy a DVD burner or waste a dvd on it. In 3.0.0 you couldnt launch the program on a mac whos resolution was less than 1024x768 [now my ibook is effectively locked out of iMovie BOO ONTO YOU APPLE] however, Apple in it's infinite wisdom forgot one little thing. The most common TV resolution is 800x600. 3.0.0 let you change your resolution back to 800x600 after you launched it [letting you go into tv mirror and play full screen] 3.0.1 pops up a cute little box that says [HI THIS IS APPLE, ENOUGH FULL SCREEN FUN, WE ARE GOING TO SCREW YOU OVER NOW HAAHAHHAHAHA] when you try to change the screen resolution, then proceeds to force quit the app without a chance to save.



so yeah, my iMovie wish list:

Make it fast enough so I can show it to pc people and have them actually be impressed.
Fix full screen output to tv
higher quality ken burns effects
better titling support. like let you have two titles that are the same size on the screen at once... [is it *that* hard]
a box that warns you when you try to capture video to a device that is not fast enough [laptop hard drive].
a feature that tells you when its about to unexpectantly quit, so you can save your work before it does.


iMovie is pretty decent feature wise, it is free, but free is no excuse for crappy buggy performance.


Oh, and my FCE wishlist:

scroll wheel support for the browser, please please please please

thats it, FCE is great!

johnnyjibbs
Dec 8, 2003, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by zaphoyd
FCE is fast, non buggy, and a joy to use.

iMovie is pretty decent feature wise, it is free, but free is no excuse for crappy buggy performance.
Agreed. With FCE so good there is no reason for iMovie to be so bad.


Oh, and my FCE wishlist:

scroll wheel support for the browser, please please please please

thats it, FCE is great!
Yes! I could do with AAC support as well but I found that MP3s played in dire quality (skipping all the time) so now I have to use AIFFs (better quality anyway) for music.

legion
Dec 8, 2003, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by liloconf
i'd rather have a final cut express 1.5 but hey thats cool, i like ken and his effects :)

At some level, I've always thought that the "Ken Burns" Effect should really be an effect/process that turns a 5 minute storyline into a 20hr multivolume documentary....:D

Macco
Dec 8, 2003, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by mkaake
yeah, the iapps are free for download (kind of... if you don't have a superdrive on your mac, there't no idvd in your future, but other than that)... so upgrading them is always free...

matt

Actually, not quite. You can only upgrade iDVD by buying the iLife box. iDVD is over a gigabyte in size, so even if Apple wanted to make it free, people wouldn't be able to download it.

johnnyjibbs
Dec 8, 2003, 06:14 PM
Well, America's Army was some whopping 660 MB! It took a good hour or so on my uni network to download!

That said, I was surprised they didn't offer the iDVD upgrade for 20 "shipping and handling" like they do for most other things.

I would have thought the iMovie update would still be free. Although maybe they'll just send out an upgraded iLife suite that you have to buy with updated other apps...

fatfish
Dec 8, 2003, 06:37 PM
I'd like to see a few more titles or even an add on app to create your own title frames and maybe a few other minor transitions and effects, but hey I'd like to defend imovie here.

I sometimes go a bit beyond the basics of imovie for odd bits of multimedia stuff I do for work, for this I use premiere. I find it a POS, but I don't do enough to warrant spending good money on anything better.

I do quite a bit of work on home movies, where many of the things I can do with premiere are just overkill and end up looking like an experiment to see how many silly effects one can incorporate into a movie. After all how many of these type of effects do you see in a feature length movie.

For home video there is nothing like the simplicity of imovie. Buggy? not for me, Slow? not for me, it works as fast as I can, unless you want to preview every addition everytime you make one, I don't find speed a problem. I have the latest version of imovie and I have no problem displaying movies on a TV screen (but maybe that's because I have an analogue converter).

No, for me imovie is just the job for home video. Easy to use, easy to learn and doesn't look like a mixing desk at a Pink Floyd concert.

zaphoyd
Dec 8, 2003, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by fatfish

Buggy? not for me, Slow? not for me, it works as fast as I can, unless you want to preview every addition everytime you make one, I don't find speed a problem. I have the latest version of imovie and I have no problem displaying movies on a TV screen (but maybe that's because I have an analogue converter).


not to doubt your anything, but I would really like to know under what kind of mac, and what definition of fast are you using there.

Yes, analog converter works, you can also use quicktime pro to play back the index file in the project folder full screen, but again, more $ to spend and more hassle.

When I say speed problems, not only do I mean it takes bismuth half-lifes to render, but just like resizing the window, and dragging clips around lags a lot. This is on a G4 powerbook with maxed out ram..

Any tips for improving the performance of iMovie would be much appreciated.

johnnyjibbs
Dec 8, 2003, 07:02 PM
They really ought to disable the realtime window resizing on certain apps - such as iMovie and iPhoto. I'm sure there was a key (like Option or something) to hold while doing that to disable the realtime resizing but I can't seem to find it any more. Maybe it was just certain apps.

fatfish
Dec 8, 2003, 07:23 PM
Zaphoyd

When I say it's not slow, that doesn't mean to say I think it's fast, just that speed isn't a problem.

My mac is steam driven - a very old G4 733, with 1G RAM, but I do look after my system on a very regular basis DW3/permissions etc.

I have no problem with dragging clips and I usually always have the imovie window max size and don't alter it, never (nearly) get any app crashes.

Rendering is not quick, but then neither am I. I usually put a lot of clips together before previewing, they just render while I'm say cutting a clip or creating a still, by the time I've put together 20 or so clips and done what I've got to do, the rendering is usually finished.

Like I say, it's home video (little Jake playing Rugby - that sort of thing) I don't overkill with the effects and I'm happy to preview occasionally rather than after adding every transition/effect. With regular use, you get to know how long you want the different transitions to last without the need to preview and alter all the time.

I suppose if you want to see the result of every alteration and have to wait for the rendering to finish each time, I can see it becoming a pain.

My advice would be to have more confidence in what your doing, try to avoid wanting to see the results until you have assembled a number of clips.

LethalWolfe
Dec 8, 2003, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
Agreed. With FCE so good there is no reason for iMovie to be so bad.

Saying that is like saying there is no reason for a Pontiac Sunfire not to handle like a Corvette since they are both made by GM. FCE is an awarding winning, professional editing app (FCP 3) minus a few features. FCE may not have all the features of a pro level app, but it has the quality of a pro level app.

iMovie is a completely different beast. It's a free app targeted at novice users who might put something together once a month. I toy around w/iMovie 3 once in a while on my dual gig Quicksilver (10.1.5) and I haven't found it to be overly buggy or slow. Is there room for improvement? Of course. But, for what it is, I still think iMovie is the best app in its class.


Lethal

zaphoyd
Dec 8, 2003, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by LethalWolfe
But, for what it is, I still think iMovie is the best app in its class.
Lethal [/B]

and that is the sad part ;) it is indeed, with its problems, the best app out there. apple needs more competition to keep things sharp

Doctor Q
Dec 8, 2003, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by legion
At some level, I've always thought that the "Ken Burns" Effect should really be an effect/process that turns a 5 minute storyline into a 20hr multivolume documentary....:D And somehow make those home movies of your kids playing with the dog turn more interesting and become of national historical importance. ;)

PretendPCuser
Dec 8, 2003, 08:19 PM
I just used iMovie 3 for a little project, and after using iM2 for awhile, i was amazed at the change for the worse. I thought 3 was much more difficult to use and lost a lot. Then again, i may have been just that i hadn't done any vid work for a while. I would love to see what they change though.

Slightly OT
Was wondering if anyone here is using a Contour product with iMovie or FCE or FCP. Do you like it? Wanting one for Christmas.

LethalWolfe
Dec 8, 2003, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by zaphoyd
and that is the sad part ;) it is indeed, with its problems, the best app out there. apple needs more competition to keep things sharp

I do agree that competition is a good thing, but, all things considered, iMovie is a reall good app. Video editing apps are harder to create than I think most people realize. They require the entire computer, all the subsystems, to work together. A few years ago when I built a PC to edit with by the time it was all said and done I probably had a dozen drivers, patches, updates, service packs,and/or firmware upgragdes that had to be installed in a specific order just to get the thing to work right. And there were still bugs (mostly minors ones in my case 'cause I knew how to side step the bigger ones). Argh, it was a PITA sometimes. And I'm a geek. If I was a non-geek I would've wow... I wouldv'e probablly started crying and forgotten about the whole thing. ;)

Going threw that was a major reason I purchased a Mac and FCP.


Lethal

TomSmithMacEd
Dec 8, 2003, 09:03 PM
iMovie 3 is such a bad program. It is the worst one on my computer. Maybe it has good features, but it is tough to know when it is so slow it is ubearable! I tried to make a slideshow and it took many seconds for me to post each picture. and I have a 1ghz eMac with 512mb. Terrible. I messed around with iMovie 2 at my school with a 500mhz iMac. It was as quick as could be. How could anyone use this program?!

MegaSignal
Dec 8, 2003, 10:44 PM
iMovie was, still is, and will probably be one of the greatest apps ever created.

That being said: As more and more of us move toward a DVD (-R, +R) experience, I would much rather see an improvement in the software of iDVD...as long as there's no audio sync problem, iMovie is fine as is! More features and improvements may actually cause it to begin to confilict with Final Cut Express.

Don't misunderstand: an upgrade is always welcome news - I just want iDVD to become more stable and support its existing features and options (the buttons STILL don't seem to work EXACTLY right...) and would therefore prefer more of Apple's resources devoted to iDVD as opposed to iMovie...

LethalWolfe
Dec 8, 2003, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by MegaSignal
iMovie was, still is, and will probably be one of the greatest apps ever created.

That being said: As more and more of us move toward a DVD (-R, +R) experience, I would much rather see an improvement in the software of iDVD...as long as there's no audio sync problem, iMovie is fine as is! More features and improvements may actually cause it to begin to confilict with Final Cut Express.

Don't misunderstand: an upgrade is always welcome news - I just want iDVD to become more stable and support its existing features and options (the buttons STILL don't seem to work EXACTLY right...) and would therefore prefer more of Apple's resources devoted to iDVD as opposed to iMovie...


I'm curious as to what problems you are having w/iDVD and what new features you would like to see.


Lethal

MegaSignal
Dec 9, 2003, 12:28 AM
I'm curious as to what problems you are having w/iDVD and what new features you would like to see.




With regard to iDVD:

1) Overall stability - will it launch without "unexpectedly quitting" and avoid burn errors resulting in wasted media?, and

2) Image assignment with regard to buttons with either a static image or a moving image; many times, the selected image will not remain where the slider is positioned.

Ironically, it was the relative slowness of iMovie 2.x which precipitated my purchase of a Dual 1.25 with over 1G of RAM; now, with FCE, my old iMac FP would've been more than adequate. But without an additional investment of several hundred dollars, I must learn to live within the means of iDVD's current form and function.

Once again, I'll never say no to an upgrade - eventhough iMovie may no longer be my primary movie editing app, it reaffirms my decision to invest in Apple hardware and software...IMHO, iDVD could simply use a little more "polish" compared to iMovie. I would've been ecstatic had this post been entitled: "Apple to release iDVD 3.5?"

LethalWolfe
Dec 9, 2003, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by MegaSignal
With regard to iDVD:

1) Overall stability - will it launch without "unexpectedly quitting" and avoid burn errors resulting in wasted media?, and

2) Image assignment with regard to buttons with either a static image or a moving image; many times, the selected image will not remain where the slider is positioned.

Ironically, it was the relative slowness of iMovie 2.x which precipitated my purchase of a Dual 1.25 with over 1G of RAM; now, with FCE, my old iMac FP would've been more than adequate. But without an additional investment of several hundred dollars, I must learn to live within the means of iDVD's current form and function.

Once again, I'll never say no to an upgrade - eventhough iMovie may no longer be my primary movie editing app, it reaffirms my decision to invest in Apple hardware and software...IMHO, iDVD could simply use a little more "polish" compared to iMovie. I would've been ecstatic had this post been entitled: "Apple to release iDVD 3.5?"


Interesting. I've had iDVD crash on me a couple of times, but not enough for me to consider it a problem. Nor have I had the same image-button issues you've had. In fact, I think iDVD is better than iMovie in terms of the functions and the flexibility it gives you. Aren't we just the opposite. :)

Here is a cool tutorial about how to create custom buttons in iDVD3. I've liked to part 3 of 3 of the tutorial and the 2nd paragraph contains links to parts 1 and 2.

Link me baby (http://www.dvdcreation.com/2002/12_dec/tutorials/idvd3021212.htm )

SeaFox
Dec 9, 2003, 01:17 AM
Ha Ha! This computer doesn't know I voted for some reason. I get TWO votes now!

And I vote for 8!

Because 8 is grrrreeaaat!

(we all saw the shampoo commercial)

Poindexter
Dec 9, 2003, 04:42 AM
I just wish that FCE could import movie clips from DV cameras in the same way iMovie can.

I ran out and bought a copy of FCE when I bought my Powerbook (my first Mac, and I love it!) but was a little disappointed that it didn't create a thumbnail for each scene as it imports. iMovie does that nicely and this saves a load of time and effort but I would like to dabble with the more powerful FCE features.

Am I just being dumb? Can FCE do that after all?

johnnyjibbs
Dec 9, 2003, 05:05 AM
iDVD has never crashed on me. I think it is one of the most sleek of the iApps. I'd like to be able to put a menu before the first title but you can't have everything in a free app I suppose.

iMovie isn't in danger of cutting into FCE sales - if it was they should not add so many features. There is just no excuse for it to be too slow to use when it's supposed to be easy to operate and not be frustrating.

Interestingly, as competition on the Windows platform improves, Apple has to update iMovie's feature set (one of the pluses of the Mac), which then forces them to upgrade FCE (so iMovie doesn't cannibalise sales), which then forces more devlopment of FCP. So it's a good thing for us consumers really.

zaphoyd
Dec 9, 2003, 06:37 AM
Originally posted by Poindexter
I just wish that FCE could import movie clips from DV cameras in the same way iMovie can.

I ran out and bought a copy of FCE when I bought my Powerbook (my first Mac, and I love it!) but was a little disappointed that it didn't create a thumbnail for each scene as it imports. iMovie does that nicely and this saves a load of time and effort but I would like to dabble with the more powerful FCE features.

Am I just being dumb? Can FCE do that after all?


Final Cut Express can do this. Select a clip you have imported, then choose DV Start/Stop Detection from the Mark menu. It will now place a marker in the clip where the breaks between clips are. If you want actual objects for each clip, click the disclosure triangle on the clip, select all the markers, and go to make subclip [apple-U]

Poindexter
Dec 9, 2003, 07:18 AM
Originally posted by zaphoyd
Final Cut Express can do this. Select a clip you have imported, then choose DV Start/Stop Detection from the Mark menu. It will now place a marker in the clip where the breaks between clips are. If you want actual objects for each clip, click the disclosure triangle on the clip, select all the markers, and go to make subclip [apple-U]

Aha!

That sounds pretty good! But will it add a thumbnail to each asset? I really like having the thumbnails as a quick reference to what the clips contain. Otherwise I feel I need to plough through them all and label them up one by one.

LethalWolfe
Dec 9, 2003, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by Poindexter
Aha!

That sounds pretty good! But will it add a thumbnail to each asset? I really like having the thumbnails as a quick reference to what the clips contain. Otherwise I feel I need to plough through them all and label them up one by one.

I could be wrong, but I think you can change the settings in the browser to view the clips as thumbnails instead of text.


Lethal

zaphoyd
Dec 9, 2003, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by LethalWolfe
I could be wrong, but I think you can change the settings in the browser to view the clips as thumbnails instead of text.
Lethal

yes, you can set both the timelines and the browser to view by thumbnail.

Poindexter
Dec 10, 2003, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by zaphoyd
yes, you can set both the timelines and the browser to view by thumbnail.

Awesome! That's more like it! Making each scene marker into a subclip and then viewing them as icons does exactly what I was hoping for. Now I have no excuse for not rolling up my sleeves and getting to grips with Final Cut Express.

Thanks folks!