Cool Feature of the Day

[MacRumors]

From the FAQ (.pdf) (http://a1504.g.akamai.net/7/1504/51/0f06b808e34723/www.apple.com/ipod/pdf/iPod_FAQ-a.pdf):

Q. Since the iPod doubles as a FireWire hard drive, can I also start up my Mac using iPod?

A. Yes, iPod can be preloaded with system software and used to start up your Mac or to install system software on your Mac. However, Apple does not support this feature.

[NSCoder]

Think about it, all Apple has to do now is put a high res color screen on the thing with some video software and you could show iMovies of your kids to strangers sitting next to you on a fight...scary..but cool.

[mikedman]

Originaly I was quite unimpressed with the iPod. Now I am starting to come around. I still think its true pricepoint should be $299 instead of $399 but hey, maybe the price will come down later...(hopefully sooner)

one question, if the drive has a "forced firewire mode" does that mean that you can use it with a pc?

I know apple says nada but the only thing I can think of that would prevent it is if the drive were in HFS+ or whatever the mac drive format was. If you could make yer windoze box talk to that format you could use it like any other firewire drive.

[evands]

Quite easy for SCSI and IDE.. I have no idea about firewire, though... there's a program called MacDrive that one can install on a PC to make high density mac floppies, the HFS portion of hybrid/mac-only CDs, SCSI HFS+ volumes, and IDE HFS+ hard drives accessable naturally, though explorer... i use it on my PC rather than own a mac floppy drive. Wonder if that would work on firewire... of course, my PC doesn't _have_ firewire, so it's a bit of a moot point, as well as one i can't answer.

[mikedman]

well the one nice thing about owning a PC is you can always run out and buy a firewire PCI card. That is the one thing that I don't like about owning a powerbook.

anyway, I am sure there is a utility out there that enables PC's to write to HSF+ if there isn't some enterprising young hacker could probably make a quick name for his/her self by writing one.

One more question... since the rom is flash upgradable to allow for future audio formats (oog vorbis anyone) or other applications? I could see a simple file viewer for accessing text files stored on the drive. Maybe even support for a handspring/iPaq expansion card. This thing would kick butt as a self powered storage device for storing GPS data in the field.(you could store data in ram and write to disk when full)

ohhh the possibilities.

[PC Guy]

Wonder if that would work on firewire... of course, my PC doesn't _have_ firewire, so it's a bit of a moot point, as well as one i can't answer.
Well, Jobs has said that the device will have PC support some time next year, at least that is the word 'round the camp fire. So I assume that means, even with a firewire port, PC users can't yet use it. I had really hoped I would be able to get this for myself for Christmas. Oh well.

A firewire card can be had for less that $40 at CompUSA. I think that is a small price to pay for such a cool device. (though I have been contemplating an iBook...)

[evands]

Oh, I'd absolutely be using it solely on my Powerbook G4... (last year's model, now, but still a kickass system by any standards!)... I just think PC support is a must for this to be a popular consumer device - as much as we'd like it to be otherwise, the mac just ain't a majority. Jesus but OS X is sweet, though... just installed window compression and now i'm -really- flying... if only they'd get the classic graphics drivers up to speed....

[Hes Nikke]

Originally posted by mikedman
well the one nice thing about owning a PC is you can always run out and buy a firewire PCI card. That is the one thing that I don't like about owning a powerbook.

unless you have an old (read pre 3400) PowerBook you can get a FireWire card just as easily as you can for a PCI Power Mac or PC. that's what the funny hole on the side of the computer is for, you know it is shaped like a rectangle, and has a cover on it. there is also a button next to it. yeah that hole, it's called sometimes called a PCMCIA slot, other times PC card, and other still CardBus.
One more question... since the rom is flash upgradable to allow for future audio formats (oog vorbis anyone) or other applications? I could see a simple file viewer for accessing text files stored on the drive. Maybe even support for a handspring/iPaq expansion card. This thing would kick butt as a self powered storage device for storing GPS data in the field.(you could store data in ram and write to disk when full)

ohhh the possibilities.

if you can flash the ROM i don't see why you can't add software for it. but there is no way to add hardware like the iPaq expansion or Springboard without a completely different product! otoh, there is is that nice FireWire port, you can make 3rd part pirifials for it that hook to the FireWire port! mmmm FireWire GPS! :)

anyone know what kind of processor this thing has? i could see it going as far as playing QuickTime movies though in gray scale.

[mikedman]

Originally posted by Hes Nikke
unless you have an old (read pre 3400) PowerBook you can get a FireWire card just as easily as you can for a PCI Power Mac or PC. that's what the funny hole on the side of the computer is for, you know it is shaped like a rectangle, and has a cover on it. there is also a button next to it. yeah that hole, it's called sometimes called a PCMCIA slot, other times PC card, and other still CardBus.

yeah i know i have a usb card for my old pb... problem is these babies are a lot more money than your run of the mill pci card for pc's. Don't get me wrong, I can usually find a way to add on anything I need for my pb... problem is it usually involves solutions from a limited number of sources thus reducing price variation/ options.


if you can flash the ROM i don't see why you can't add software for it. but there is no way to add hardware like the iPaq expansion or Springboard without a completely different product! otoh, there is is that nice FireWire port, you can make 3rd part pirifials for it that hook to the FireWire port! mmmm FireWire GPS! :)

anyone know what kind of processor this thing has? i could see it going as far as playing QuickTime movies though in gray scale.

I was refering to support for an expansion card that would connect to the hanspring (or iPaq) through the firewire port. You would just need a driver that can accept data from the connection, store it in ram, and write it to a data file on disk when ram is full. You would of course also need a hardware piece that converts signal from the handspring USB-like interface to firewire......with this and GRASS it might be time for the geosciences to make a comeback on the mac!

[Newton-Man]

When the iPod was first put on the site, I thought, great another MP3 Player, but then I realised how cool this player actually was.

I am going to see a demo of it later to day at my local AppleCentre.

IPOD IT REALLY COOL!!!

Also, remember that Steve said in the invatation that it was the first of the "Digital" Hub products. We might still see a PDA!!!

Thanks,
Guy Wickenden

[Ervino]

The Jukebox HD-MP3 Recorder is a more functional machine for the same class:

6GB,

*RECORDING* capabilities,

*MAC & PC*,

***349 $***

http://www.archos.com/us/products/product_500201.html

Jobs is drunk! :( :( :(

[arn]

Give the Archos jukebox a try... and let us know...

I've heard terrible word of mouth reviews... and it's almost twice as thick as the ipod (as well as bigger in the other dimensions)

arn

[mymemory]

"iPot" means: "I am under tremendus ammounts of pot, that is why I bought this thing".

Ok, you can find many uses for the "iPot", but all of them are replasables and you can get around with cheapers solutions.

-If you want to starup your mac externally you can use a CD or a Powerbook with firewire.

-If you want to transport some video... burn it! or use a zip drive. How many times have you been in a plane this year and felt under the presure of showing to the person next to you the video of your kids? That is another good reason to take iPots out of the planes.

-If you want to listen music, every where there is a CD player or for $100 you could buy one that reproduces MP3 too. And is a unit that any body can manipulate. Imagine your little brother taking care of your "iPot", or going to the beach with it.

Now, if you have a lot of your parents money, you could get an iPod.

Just imagine downloading the data in the office and take it to my house, going behind the computer, connect the cable and upload the data again. A zip is easier.

In the real world the iPot is just another way to transport data, and it is an expensive way to do it.

People really are gonna look at you as a fool when you tell the how much that thing cost you.

The iPod won't make any difference in some ones life or way to work. It is just an add on, like placing a very expensive spoiler to your Toyota Corolla.

If you are going to give a opinion about the unit be very practical and face that Apple has created a non sense toy for themselves.

This is a product just for the extremly fannatic Apple fan.

I recomend to take it off the market before the PC people find out about it. The iPot is gonna be another reason why not to buy Apple products, they are sensless and expensive they are gonna say.

[akuma]

Originally posted by mymemory:

"iPot" means: "I am under tremendus ammounts of pot, that is why I bought this thing".

I actually think it is called "iPod" Unless you are just attempting to be clever, in which case you have failed.

-If you want to starup your mac externally you can use a CD or a Powerbook with firewire.

A powerbook with firewire? Thats a pretty pricy solution. I would rather pay 399 for the external iPod.

-If you want to transport some video... burn it! or use a zip drive. How many times have you been in a plane this year and felt under the presure of showing to the person next to you the video of your kids? That is another good reason to take iPots out of the planes

A zip drive? Are you serious? Unless you are showing tiny 160x160 quicktime movies to people (which I would not even bother looking at, if somebody showed me) you are going to be unable to effectivly store video onto a zip. Add the fact that you must carry a zip drive around with you, plus you are gonna need a computer to run that zip drive from (unless you know of some stand-alone zip drive that comes with a screen) and you'll see that the iPod is the smarter more logical choice.
Ditto for the cd. What cd player do you know about that is stand alone, playes mp3s, wav, aiff and has a screen so you can see quicktime movies? Plus if you are watching video, CD is a poor format

Now, if you have a lot of your parents money, you could get an iPod.

Or, if you get a job, and effectivley save your money, as most of the "adults" in the world currently do, you could get an iPod.

Just imagine downloading the data in the office and take it to my house, going behind the computer, connect the cable and upload the data again. A zip is easier

A zip may be easier, but nowhere near as quick, or as much storage. Hmmm, 100 megs (or 250 megs) to 5 gigs? I'll take the iPod.

In the real world the iPot is just another way to transport data, and it is an expensive way to do it.

In the real world, firewire drives are pretty expensive. And none come with the ability to play mp3's wav's or aiff's. Therefore it is not "just another way to transport data," but rather, a pretty innovative way to transport data, AND play music.

People really are gonna look at you as a fool when you tell the how much that thing cost you.

If you have the money to buy it, then buy it. If you don't have the money to buy it, don't buy it.
First of all, its my business how I spend my money, if I want to plunk down 3 grand for a shoe warmer, then I will. If you are that concerned about how people will "look at you" you probably have deeper problems.

The iPod won't make any difference in some ones life or way to work. It is just an add on, like placing a very expensive spoiler to your Toyota Corolla.

Exactly. To be honest a computer wont really make a difference in someone's life either, yet people seem to be buying those too. You don't need a computer and you don't need an iPod. They are merely luxuries and should be treated as such.

If you are going to give a opinion about the unit be very practical and face that Apple has created a non sense toy for themselves.

Being practical: A 5 gig hard drive with a firewire interface, a backlit LCD screen, the ability to play music, AND hold other data.
That sounds practical to me. It also makes sense. Computer sales are slow right now. Dell was the only computer company to post increased revenues last quarter. Apple is looking to other markets to increase their marketing share. This is how they are doing it.
By making a product available like the iPod, they are showing the people who use Dell, Compaq-HP, E-machines, etc., that Apple products function beautifully together. This will in turn, make people wonder if apple is "right for them" they will then go an apple store, to check things out. It may or may not lead to new sales, but at least people are giving apple a chance, which has been apples major problem as of late.

This is a product just for the extremly fannatic Apple fan.

and this is a bad thing? ;)

I recomend to take it off the market before the PC people find out about it. The iPot is gonna be another reason why not to buy Apple products, they are sensless and expensive they are gonna say.

Since you "recomend" it i'm sure apple will listen. :)

I however "recommend" that before you jump ship to join the herds of mac-bashers, you take a moment to try the iPod (which none of us have, since it's not even shipping till the first of Nov. or later). Most of my PC using friends have already said how "cool" the iPod looks, and it seems very functional to them. Some have already eluded to the fact that they "want a mac" so they can have access to "apples cool *****"

If you don't like something please, don't buy it. Your meager attempt to try to point out flaws of the iPod was humorous at best.


{Edited to correct grammar---akuma}

[Edited by akuma on 10-24-2001 at 12:39 PM]

[Sayer]

I think too many people see "Apple MP3 Player" and "$399" and are immediately turned off.

The iPod is actually a FireWire hard drive that has a media player popped onto it. The iPod plays 4 flavors of 3 distinct media file formats, its not "just MP3" capable. You can actually load a real CD onto it and get real CD sound from it, not that hollow tinny MP3 sound.

Also since its pretty much halfway between a hard drive and PDA it could possibly do other things. How about text to speech? Load up a text file and have it recited to you as you ride the train to work? Or eBook reading?

The possibilities are wide open and because Apple makes it, they can leverage ANY technology they own and add to the iPod.

Yes it has sticker shock, but damn its WAY cooler than that Nomad (have you actually seen the SIZE) and much easier to work with.

If you haven't yet watched the interactive UI demo on the iPod site go do it. Its trully amazing what this thing does, WAY beyond a simple MP3 player that can barely show file names in English.

[Traveler]

[i]Originally posted by akuma

Your meager attempt to try to point out flaws of the iPod was humorous at best.

[/B]


Amen!

[bomega]

Hello,

I was thinking about the uses for the iPod and came up with this; could it be possible to load your entire 'Home' directory from OS X on the iPod? That way an user could use the iPod as a Digital Identity Module.

(sound cool right?)

Every Mac you meet with firewire and OS X you just log out, attach your iPod and log in as yourself. You can then check your Mail, surf the web, all with your own documents, bookmarks and settings.

I know you could also do this with any other regular Firewire HD but if Apple could integrate all that into an iPod it would be a very cool extra feature.

Students could all just plug in their iPods instead of all owning whole computers. On vacation all you bring along is your iPod and not a full featured iBook or TiBook.

Just a thought...

Boris

[evands]

That'd be a pretty cool idea... and would even further emphasize that macs are always intercompatible... of course, some OS X-side changes would be necessary, as UN*X doesn't normally scan newly attached devices for possible users... but a simple check for an invisible file at startup could link the users, groups, and password files of an attached disk to the local ones. I should imagine there would be some restrictions were this to be made possible.. you couldn't login as an administrator or root from an attached drive, 'cause that would allow any hacker with physical access to your system to immediately compromise it.. so most of our default OS X accounts wouldn't be portable. Still, an intriguing concept.

[bgreel]

Originally posted by bomega
Hello,

I was thinking about the uses for the iPod and came up with this; could it be possible to load your entire 'Home' directory from OS X on the iPod? That way an user could use the iPod as a Digital Identity Module.

Boris

Well I must say, that's a pretty interesting idea. The metaphor of 'pod' works a hell of a lot better that way as well. I could see students using it and not really having to own a computer, if they chose. Though again, I wish it had a usb port, too, for compatibility with older computers and other peripherals. I'm going on a long travelling trip to S. America and have been wondering how I can stay connected somehow...if s. america had a lot more macs this would be the way to go, just pop into an internet cafe and have access to everything (plus my music collection).

Though then again if you just want file access you can burn a cd or two. I'm still trying to figure out how to maintain a couple of freelance clients as a web developer while on an extended (6 mos) getaway. Without having to lug around a laptop...any ideas?

[mikedman]

I think it is better to think of the iPod as a Self Powered firewire harddrive that also plays mp3's. the self powered bit is what intriuges me. Apple can release future digital device type things with some solid state memory and firewire, and a clip to hold the iPod on the back for more storage. The fact that it won't drain power from the host is what tickles my fancy.

I think the iPod is full of possibilities. Apple still needs to get that price down, and it might have helped if they released a couple of new devices instead of just iPod.

[SPG]

...if indeed this iPod should be viewed more as a storage device than simply an MP3 player, I wonder what if any new devices and applications we'll see at Macworld SF in January. That may be where the really "revolutionary" and "groundbreaking" stuff might show up.
After looking at the iPod and the discussions, I have warmed quite a bit to the idea (although the price is still about $100 too high to be really comfortable).

[SPG]

Last winter I had the chance to try out just about all the MP3 players out there as we were doing a photo shoot for a story on new technologies...and you know what? Most of them sucked. I was really surprised at the sound quality, slow transfer rates, proprietary formats, lack of real volume, lack of bass, lack of well, anything to really enhance the MP3's compression. I hope that the players available now are better, but still if anyone has had the same experience that I had they wouldn't be too thrilled by an anouncement of a $400 player. So I can see why there'd be some dissappointment and some easy shots from the PC crowd.
After reading Apple's description of the iPod, I think that they were careful to do wahtever it took to improve the sound quality and most of the other issues as well.

[Beholder of Truth]

Originally posted by mikedman
well the one nice thing about owning a PC is you can always run out and buy a firewire PCI card. That is the one thing that I don't like about owning a powerbook.

Huh??? That has nothing to do with owning a PC!

Here's a simple formula for you:

Desktop machines: PCI expansion.
Laptop machines: No PCI expansion.

[Beholder of Truth]

Originally posted by mikedman
One question, if the drive has a "forced firewire mode" does that mean that you can use it with a pc?

I know apple says nada but the only thing I can think of that would prevent it is if the drive were in HFS+ or whatever the mac drive format was. If you could make yer windoze box talk to that format you could use it like any other firewire drive.

I am certain you can use the iPod as a PC firewire drive. But the point is that you can't use it as an mp3 player because you cannot sync with your PC or make playlists, etc. I don't know if you can copy mp3's to it and play them or if they have to bee imported via iTunes to not be considered just "raw data."

[mikedman]

Originally posted by Beholder of Truth

I am certain you can use the iPod as a PC firewire drive. But the point is that you can't use it as an mp3 player because you cannot sync with your PC or make playlists, etc. I don't know if you can copy mp3's to it and play them or if they have to bee imported via iTunes to not be considered just "raw data." [/B]

Until i see otherwise I am going to assume that the mp3 player app just looks for files with the mp3 extension and plays those files. I am not sure but there are 3 options for adding songs (one of which is to just drag and drop them onto the ipod). It would kind of suck if you had to have all your songs on a play list to hear them.

[evands]

If the FAQ is to be believed, it doesn't just look for .mp3 files or even files with a pre-osX-style mpg3 filetype... as it claims that music dropped onto the mounted harddrive is never included in your playable iPod files... so it looks like iTunes writes to an 'off-limits' part of the drive which can expand and contract dynamically.. at least that's my guess. Therefore, if you attached it to a PC or non-iPod-aware firewire device, the only files you'd see would be the ones you transferred as data... your playable MP3s would be invisible.

I personally (ungrounded) expect a $100 price drop at the next MacExpo or equivalent (so, in a quarter or so)... anyone have information on the possibility of larger harddrives in the Toshiba enclosure we're assuming they've licensed? Is this going to go beyond 5 gb? Give me $100 less, or $50 less and 5 gb more, and I'll order one today.

[bgreel]

I know there are USB microphones, but are there firewire microphones? I know some have bemoaned not having the ability to record - and this would be a very cool recording device.

[mikedman]

you are correct, the faq says that music and playlists are stored in a seperate area of the disc than data.... however since you access firewire disc mode through itunes it is possible that it mounts the data folder as the firewire disk icon.

If you mount the firewire disk on a PC it would seem likely that you would have access to all folders on the drive from explorer. (unless apple specificaly prevents that) I guess we will have to wait and see if, upon gaining access to the music directory, you can copy music straight over.

[evands]

Right - I didn't see that about manual mounting originally. In that case it makes sense that the PC should see it all... I would expect...

[jefhatfield]

299 would be the better thing for this product to stay completely competitive against the others people have been listing here

the smaller size justifies the cost but will the consumer know that?

[Klaus Boehncke]

Hi,

I was thinking whether the iPod could actually be the device that I´ve been looking for over the last half year: I take a lot of digital photographs, and I also want an mp3 player. I don´t need or want two seperate 6GB devices - a "digital wallet" to store photos and an mp3 player. Why the heck is no one making a combo that can do both - this seeme incredibly stupid to me!!??

Now with the iPod in Firewire Mode, anybody have thoughts what would happen if I buy a FireWire Compact Flash adapater and plug in a CF card.... would I be able to download and store the JPGs on the iPod??? Any thoughts much appreciated....

Klaus

[Matthé]

I wonder, if the iPod is indeed software updateable, if someone could turn it into a portable adresbook/agenda/... etc.
turning it into some sort of stripped down Newton version (i'm not all that familiar with the Newton so I'm not sure how much functionality will have to be compromised)
Mini Newton + MP3 player + portable storage device in 1
Maybe..

[Beholder of Truth]

Originally posted by Klaus Boehncke

Now with the iPod in Firewire Mode, anybody have thoughts what would happen if I buy a FireWire Compact Flash adapater and plug in a CF card.... would I be able to download and store the JPGs on the iPod??? Any thoughts much appreciated....

Klaus

Of course not. How would you download them onto the iPod? The iPod is does not have any software to download files of an external firewire device other than when iTunes is installed. When you use it as an HD, you have to DROP the files on to it to copy them. I don't see how you would drop files from a CF card onto the iPod.

[pandafactory]

Originally posted by Klaus Boehncke

Now with the iPod in Firewire Mode, anybody have thoughts what would happen if I buy a FireWire Compact Flash adapater and plug in a CF card.... would I be able to download and store the JPGs on the iPod??? Any thoughts much appreciated....


Although I highly doubt the first iPod version will have this capability, I think it could certainly happen in the future. As I understand it, Firewire is a peer-to-peer topology with no upstream/downstream distinction, as in USB. The iPod could therefore act as the host and use other devices, including CF readers. However, it would not be automatic. The iPod would need appropriate software, and someone would have to develop it.
The question, as I see it, is this: Does the iPod have an easy software upgrade mechanism, and if so, will Apple provide documentation for it? The iPod has a hard drive, so there it doesn't really need "flashable firmware," as some people have mentioned. All it needs is a bootloader in ROM that could find a small OS (microdarwin?) on the drive, load it into the 32MB main memory, and run it. If Apple has implemented it in this way, then upgrading the iPod software could be as simple as copying binaries to the drive in forced FW mode. If Apple provides adequate documentation for the processor, hardware hooks, and bootloader conventions, then we can expect third parties to start developing some fun new software. I know of no similar device with this capability, so perhaps Steve Jobs was right to use the word "groundbreaking", and we just need some practice with delayed gratification. We'll see.

[javaboy]

actually, the faq says you can use non-computer products, like a digital camera, but you can't listen to tunes at the same time.


------------------------------------
Q. Can I use FireWire mode with noncomputer products?
A. Yes. First you will need to reset your iPod. When the Apple logo appears on the screen, hold
down the Previous/Rewind button and the Next/Fast-forward button simultaneously until the
FireWire icon appears. When you finish using iPod in this “forced” FireWire mode, disconnect
and reset it again before normal operation.
------------------------------------------------

[javaboy]

wonder, if the iPod is indeed software updateable, if someone could turn it into a portable adresbook/agenda/... etc.
turning it into some sort of stripped down Newton version (i'm not all that familiar with the Newton so I'm not sure how much functionality will have to be compromised)
Mini Newton + MP3 player + portable storage device in 1
Maybe..
--------------------------------------------------------

i think the ipod is firmware updateable, as well as software updateable, so there's a lot of possibilities.

[gerror]

I have a archos jukebox6000 and a iMac and it's great. 100-150 cd's in my pocket. Also take it to (pc)friends and copy their harddisk, hehehe. It is a bit heavy compared with a 32mb mp3 player but a harddisk has a lot more pro's. The biggest contra is also the biggest pro: USB. It terrible slow but on the other hand, i can go to my pc friends and copy their stuff.
If i'm sure i can buy a additional usb cable-extender and there is pc software available, i buy it right away.
Good work Steve