Nokia Buys Symbian, Possible Google Android Delays

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Seemingly in a response to growing competition from Apple and Google, Nokia is buying out (http://conversations.nokia.com/home/2008/06/nokia-to-acquir.html) Symbian Ltd and will open its mobile operating system for royalty free use. Nokia will pay $410 million to buy the remaining 52% share of the company that it does not already own and establish the Symbian Foundation (http://www.symbianfoundation.org):"This is a significant milestone in our software strategy" said Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo, CEO of Nokia. "Symbian is already the leading open platform for mobile devices. Through this acquisition and the establishment of the Symbian Foundation, it will undisputedly be the most attractive platform for mobile innovation. This will drive the development of new and compelling, web-enabled applications to delight a new generation of consumers."

Symbian Ltd (http://www.symbian.com/) was originally formed in partnership with Ericsson, Nokia, Motorola and Psion in 1998. Since then, Symbian's mobile operating system has grown to power two thirds of all existing smart phones and 6% of all phones worldwide.

The move seems to clearly be in response to Google's Android initiative (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/05/google-announces-android-mobile-platform-google-phones/) which similarly offers an open platform for upcoming mobile phones. Yesterday, a report (http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINN2242217020080623?rpc=44) claimed that we would not see the first Android phones until the 4th quarter of this year, due to carrier delays. As well, Apple's plans to launch their App Store and promoting their new mobile development platform likely also played a factor in Nokia's decision.

Apple will be launching the App Store alongside the iPhone 2.0 Firmware update in "early July".

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/06/24/nokia-buys-symbian-possible-google-android-delays/)

[Zwhaler]

Well hey, as always, competeition is good. Looks like Nokia is afraid of Apple a little bit?

[Shagrat]

Well it would seem that everybody is running a little scared of the iPhone.

Remember Steve Balmer (http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquirer/news/2007/05/01/ballmer-predicts-iphone-failure) on the iPhone?

And this guy works for... who was it again?

[jons]

Well hey, as always, competeition is good. Looks like Nokia is afraid of Apple a little bit?

Haha, I think the whole cell phone industry is a bit on it's head these days.

[retroneo]

Good response from Nokia.

With both Android and Symbian S60 being royalty-free, Windows Mobile is dead.

Exciting times for the mobile industry!

[NewSc2]

Nice to see the rest of the industry isn't sitting on its hands waiting for Apple to make its next move. Let's hope this means better software for all!

[aLoC]

I love how he says it will "drive the development of new and compelling, web-enabled applications" but doesn't say how. It's like he thinks all you have to do is open-source something and then "by magic" all the apps will appear. Where is the iTunes-style app distribution platform? Where is the XCode IDE?

He is going down totally the wrong path, forget so-called "strategic" moves like this and just watch what apps are successful on the iPhone and write their own versions in house for their phone.

[Project]

Too bad Symbian is a crock of ****, as is its development tools.

But ultimately a smart move. Thats now Google, Microsoft and Nokia all having seemingly the same model in order to become the Windows of mobile phones.

[emotion]

Makes for interesting watching, the phone industry at the moment.

Shame Android is delayed, though not entirely unexpected. I think this is shaping up to be a two horse race right now. Apple vs. Android. Two very different software models. I'm hoping that Android will provide stiff competition for Apple to keep their game sharp.

[blueskyrocket]

Only SJ knows how much of a lead Apple has over the others. He knows how long it took for Apple to develop the platform, and how much it cost and he had access to the best interface / design team going, coupled together with their new found economic model (on going monthly/annual fees) and Apples top down tight integration and synergy with the rest of their products Nokia has got to do something, and it wont be building a PC to compete with Apple.

Does anybody else think that with the new lower price points of the iPhone, that Apple has left room for higher specced iPhones at the $399 & $499 price points. Are we to get video iChat, a 3.2 MP camera, real bluetooth and 32/64GB capacities for the new iPhone Air (tic)


Nokia would need to make it Open to have any hope. I think Apple has the lead as they have a modern OS that can be shoehorned into these and future devices. Symbian and the MS alternative are too old to take advantage of emerging markets. Only Googles Android has a chance, but it runs the potential of being compromised by too many variants by too many manufacturers and too many carriers interests. Plus it will be ad (read free) driven. You'll pay real money for Apple services, but it is refreshing to use Apples services without a mish mash of competing advertisers trying to get me to spend money I don't have, cause I gave it all to Apple.... ha!

BSR

[emotion]

Does anybody else think that with the new lower price points of the iPhone, that Apple has left room for higher specced iPhones at the $399 & $499 price points. Are we to get video iChat, a 3.2 MP camera, real bluetooth and 32/64GB capacities for the new iPhone Air (tic)


Definitely room for that. I agree.


Only Googles Android has a chance, but it runs the potential of being compromised by too many variants by too many manufacturers and too many carriers interests. Plus it will be ad (read free) driven.


I'm not sure it's completely clear yet how that will work. Their current model doesn't stop me using Googlemail for example.

[Project]

Does anybody else think that with the new lower price points of the iPhone, that Apple has left room for higher specced iPhones at the $399 & $499 price points. Are we to get video iChat, a 3.2 MP camera, real bluetooth and 32/64GB capacities for the new iPhone Air (tic)


Is there really room? How many other phones do you see at $499 with a two year contract?

[emotion]

Is there really room? How many other phones do you see at $499 with a two year contract?

I don't think of the iPhone as just a phone. It's a communicator. I'd pay £300 instead of £159 (for the new 16GB) for a high end version.

I paid 270 for this iPhone1 on launch.

[iPave]

I don't get it. How is Nokia going to benefit of giving symbian for free for other manufacturers.

[BornAgainMac]

A tricorder for $499 plus 2 year contract would be nice.

[emotion]

I don't get it. How is Nokia going to benefit of giving symbian for free for other manufacturers.

Have a read of this and get back to us:

The Cathedral and the Bazaar - Eric S. Raymond
http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue3_3/raymond/

[Project]

I don't think of the iPhone as just a phone. It's a communicator. I'd pay £300 instead of £159 (for the new 16GB) for a high end version.

I paid 270 for this iPhone1 on launch.

I paid the same.

But that doesn't change the fact that its a phone competing against other phones (or communicators if you want), that aren't priced at £270 with an 18 month contract. And most people *wouldn't* pay £269 + a long contract for a phone.

Apple is very deliberate with its pricing. Its going to remain like this now with hardware revisions going forward. 32GB probably in time for Xmas. Stuff like video and A2DP are software solutions and will hopefully added in time. But not as a means to introduce a higher price point. The $199/$299 is still high end for the mobile market.

[emotion]

I paid the same.

But that doesn't change the fact that its a phone competing against other phones (or communicators if you want), that aren't priced at £270 with an 18 month contract. And most people *wouldn't* pay £269 + a long contract for a phone.

Apple is very deliberate with its pricing. Its going to remain like this now with hardware revisions going forward. 32GB probably in time for Xmas. Stuff like video and A2DP are software solutions and will hopefully added in time. But not as a means to introduce a higher price point. The $199/$299 is still high end for the mobile market.

I understand what you're saying but there's still a market for the higher end. They've addressed the midrange now. The low-end is too hard to fight.

Most people I know baulk at contracts. That's Nokia/SE's domain.

In terms of hardware, I think you could be right on the time line though I'm hoping for less bulk in 6 months. I've not felt the new one but I think the old iPhone is a little on the lardy side.

[Zzzoom]

I welcome the increased attention to cell phone software. For too many years, the consumers had to deal with tedious and/or slow GUIs.:mad:

[Project]

I understand what you're saying but there's still a market for the higher end. They've addressed the midrange now. The low-end is too hard to fight.

Most people I know baulk at contracts. That's Nokia/SE's domain.

In terms of hardware, I think you could be right on the time line though I'm hoping for less bulk in 6 months. I've not felt the new one but I think the old iPhone is a little on the lardy side.

Without the contract though you are looking at £400+.

I don't see how its mid range. To me it works like this

Low end - MOTOKRZ

Mid - SE W910/K850, N81

High end - iPhone, N96, Omnia

[sjo]

Nokia would need to make it Open to have any hope. I think Apple has the lead as they have a modern OS that can be shoehorned into these and future devices. Symbian and the MS alternative are too old to take advantage of emerging markets. Only Googles Android has a chance, but it runs the potential of being compromised by too many variants by too many manufacturers and too many carriers interests. Plus it will be ad (read free) driven. You'll pay real money for Apple services, but it is refreshing to use Apples services without a mish mash of competing advertisers trying to get me to spend money I don't have, cause I gave it all to Apple.... ha!

BSR

cool theory, but it's really apple who's playing catch up here. despite all the hype, iphone has only succeeded in the us, in europe it was a flop. bringing new distributors is nice and all, but given the market share they managed to gain in the uk, germany and france, the iphone is absolutely no threat to nokia.

this move has been in the works for a long time and it makes sense for nokia & symbian regardless of the recents percieved competition from apple & google.

[xert]

It's worth a mention that companies that are selling their Symbian shares to Nokia will be donating codes of their Symbian platforms to the new foundation as well. There will be no S60/UIQ/MOAP in their current forms in the future.

Members of the new Symbian Foundation include Nokia, Motorola, Sony Ericsson, NTT Docomo, Texas Instruments, Vodafone, Samsung, LG, AT&T and so on.

[ruutiveijari]

Lets not forget that Nokia also bought Trolltech a short time ago. Trolltech originally made the QTopia aka Qt operating system, a Linux-based OS for smartphones. And of course S60 Touch has been under developement a few years now, even before the iPhone was even announced. First phones utilizing it should be coming out later this year.

Interesting times.

[JonasLondon]

cool theory, but it's really apple who's playing catch up here. despite all the hype, iphone has only succeeded in the us, in europe it was a flop. bringing new distributors is nice and all, but given the market share they managed to gain in the uk, germany and france, the iphone is absolutely no threat to nokia.

this move has been in the works for a long time and it makes sense for nokia & symbian regardless of the recents percieved competition from apple & google.

Excuse me? Ever used the DLR or tubes at rush hour in London? Get on a train and tell me you can not spot at least 4 iPhones in a wagon, and I might say you're right. Seems like half of the city workers buy themselves a private iPhone because it rocks, and only drag along their company Blackberry because they happened to sign a two-year contract with the Vodaphone Business unit or similar.

Of course the adoption of the iPhone in rural Texas might be higher than in High Wycombe outside London, but in London the iPhone is everywhere....

The reason why it is performing more poorly in Germany is due to silly contracts by T-Mobile. But they've had silly contracts before the iPhone came out. Let it roam free with O2 and some other carriers in Germany and see the sales go through the roof. I.e. wait till 2009, and it's far from a flop in Europe.

Software Version 2.0 and the App Store will change this business totally. And yes, I've been in the Sybian and Nokia E61 "business joke phone" territory and regret that phase.

[tiiim]

Without the contract though you are looking at £400+.

I don't see how its mid range. To me it works like this

Low end - MOTOKRZ

Mid - SE W910/K850, N81

High end - iPhone, N96, Omnia

I agree, in the UK most phones are free on a contract. I think the current iPhone will be its high end model, it makes more sense for apple to introduce a lower range model. Smaller device at least but wouldnt know what features they could drop though as in the UK most of Apple's feature (accept gps) are standard these days. The mobile phone market is very competive, and with the n96 coming out soon going to very challenging here.

[speakerwizard]

I agree, in the UK most phones are free on a contract. I think the current iPhone will be its high end model, it makes more sense for apple to introduce a lower range model. Smaller device at least but wouldnt know what features they could drop though as in the UK most of Apple's feature (accept gps) are standard these days. The mobile phone market is very competive, and with the n96 coming out soon going to very challenging here.

It took 3 generations of ipods before apple introduced the mini, They like to establish a product before expanding, like with the mac range when jobs returned and cut most products down to ibook, powerbook, imac, power mac, clearly defined so a while before more than one iphone model, though i can see with the pricing they are trying to open up the one model to a larger market.

[swingerofbirch]

This is exciting! Since the mid-90s, nothing has really changed THAT much with personal computing. It's all been relatively minor evolutions in desktop computing (I know both Microsoft and Apple would argue that's not true)--but really have any of the fundamnentals changed?

Mobile phones are a new platform on which to start fresh, and the fact that Google and Nokia are wanting to get good OS's onto phones only legitimizes Apple's efforts further by showing it's the place to be right now.

[sfoalex]

I don't get it. How is Nokia going to benefit of giving symbian for free for other manufacturers.

Well, Nokia is likely thinking that they are based in Symbian, and rather than leave it, they hope to get others interested in it so they can stand still. It's as I keep saying. These guys don't know how to combat Apple. They think they need their own OS. Which is only half true. They do need an OS. But it needs to be compelling. Symbian is not. In my opinion, even if they get what they want, it will not lead to the desired results.

My opinion remains the same. BlackBerry OS is no competition. Symbian, no competition. Palm, no competition. Android, yes that's competition. Windows Mobile in my view is also competition. Nokia, Palm, and BlackBerry should be very worried.

Alex

[ruutiveijari]

Nokia, Palm, and BlackBerry should be very worried.

Nokia isn't relying solely on Symbian, they have a big developement going on with different Linux based platforms.

[Project]

Well, Nokia is likely thinking that they are based in Symbian, and rather than leave it, they hope to get others interested in it so they can stand still. It's as I keep saying. These guys don't know how to combat Apple. They think they need their own OS. Which is only half true. They do need an OS. But it needs to be compelling. Symbian is not. In my opinion, even if they get what they want, it will not lead to the desired results.

My opinion remains the same. BlackBerry OS is no competition. Symbian, no competition. Palm, no competition. Android, yes that's competition. Windows Mobile in my view is also competition. Nokia, Palm, and BlackBerry should be very worried.

Alex

I agree with this.

Nokia is left with a very interesting strategic decision to make in terms of where they are headed. If we go under the premise that the mobile phone becomes more and more of a computer in the next decade, then the status quo is the worst position they can be in, as Windows Mobile, OSX and Android offer better platforms, with MS and Google looking to effectively duplicate the Windows model with OEM deals.

I think in doing this they made the right choice. They just need to hope that Android doesn't get too much traction and become "Windows" for mobiles in the sense that its the defacto OS that most other OEMs run and thus create an unparalleled ecosystem for software and hardware. Yes, Nokia make 1 out of every 4 phones sold in the world but 3 of the other 4 are targets for Microsoft and Google.

Apple will be Apple, happy with fighting in the 5-10% of the market that is the most lucrative. If they do a good job here and gain traction (20-30m units a year), Nokia will definitely feel the squeeze on the bottom line for their highest margin products.

Its definitely an interesting to business to watch now though. Arguably the desktop computer business is insanely boring at present. New speed bumps. Big deal. Mobile is where there is still a lot of innovation to happen as it plays catch up, both technically and from a UI standpoint. And the winners and losers 5 years from now is very unpredictable (except for Motorola, lol).

[BongoBanger]

Excuse me? Ever used the DLR or tubes at rush hour in London? Get on a train and tell me you can not spot at least 4 iPhones in a wagon, and I might say you're right.

Now count the Nokia units. Nokia dominate Europe and Indo-Asia.

and it's far from a flop in Europe.

Actually, going by comparitive sales figures it kind of was. The iPhone 3G should do a lot better.

Software Version 2.0 and the App Store will change this business totally.

Doubt it since it's not offering anything that the other manufacturers don't already.

And yes, I've been in the Sybian and Nokia E61 "business joke phone" territory and regret that phase.

Good for you. Shame you're not willing to try the newer units. It seems Nokia, like Apple, learn from their mistakes.

As for the announcemnt, been expecting this for a while. This will really push Symbian ahead as it'll become the biggest - and by a considerable margin - development community in the world. Suspect Nokia will focus on pulling together their distribution strategy now.

[gikku]

Apple has left room for higher specced iPhones at the $399 & $499 price points. Are we to get video iChat, a 3.2 MP camera, real bluetooth and 32/64GB capacities for the new iPhone Air (tic)

how about a low spec model, no camera, 3/4 size and weight, 2GB $89 or 4GB $129 iPhone nano (tic)

[gikku]

Now count the Nokia units. Nokia dominate Europe and Indo-Asia.

for phones and texting, yes, but almost no one is listening to music on their Nokia phone. Almost no one wearing Nokia earbuds.

[JayBee]

... I think the current iPhone will be its high end model, it makes more sense for apple to introduce a lower range model. Smaller device at least but wouldnt know what features they could drop though ...

I keep seeing this trotted out as fact again and again.

( This is a long rant, and it's not meant as any personal attack - this just happened to be the most recent time I saw this particular "fact" quoted. )

Just think about this for a minute - when has any electronic product been released that was both significantly smaller and significantly cheaper than the currently available model?

Making these things smaller costs more, not less. It's not like the thing's just full of gold bullion and if you take some gold out it gets cheaper.

Smaller is a feature, and it's a feature real people pay a premium for. Look at the iPod mini - much more expensive per gigabyte than its chunky sibling, yet it became the most successful iPod model (and, I'm guessing, hence the most successful MP3 player).

Apple won't release the iPhone nano (or air, or whatever) until the base iPhone runs at 32GB of storage at least. Then they'll re-release the iPhone G1 in a smaller case just like they did with the iPod. They might drop GPS, WiMax, Bluetooth modem, video conferencing, world peace and the laughter of a thousand children, or whatever they're shipping as "standard" on the iPhone in 3 years, but think about the iPod again - what features did they "drop" for the mini? I can't think of a one other than storage, and in fact they even introduced a feature (the clickwheel) that was exclusive to the mini. In fact, other than storage, I can't think of much that existed on the G3 iPod that wasn't on the G1.

I maintain that the iPhone is going to follow EXACTLY the same pattern as the iPod. Why the hell should Apple change it? All the naysayers said that the iPod was lame and would fail. Apple was right, we were wrong. Now all the naysayers come out of the woodwork again and tell Apple what they have to do to succeed, and none of them seem to stop to think about what they're saying.

Nothing revolutionary is going to happen with the iPhone for the next 5 years. The revolution already happened: smart phones are now being used by our mums and dads, by our kids, by everyone to whom this stuff (email, web, phone, video, music) is useful, but from whom it has been withheld by crappy user interfaces and mismatched software/hardware direction, driven by a lacklustre industry hell-bent on resting on its laurels.

Again, look at the iPod. With the exception of the iPhone/touch, the iPod hasn't been revolutionary since 2001, yet it's ubiquitous. Same with the iPhone. Expect no surprises - expect only that the user experience will get better and better and that nobody will catch up as the competition is too focussed on "Hey, check it out!! We've got an 8MP camera that automatically syncs with your flickr account!*" (* if you can figure out how the hell to configure it, and if you can trust it not to publish those "private" photos you took for your girlfriend)

Apple will do what it does best when it's on its game - ignore everyone, and then win.

[elppa]

for phones and texting, yes, but almost no one is listening to music on their Nokia phone. Almost no one wearing Nokia earbuds.

That's not fair at all, I've seen a solid two people wearing NOKIA earbuds and we're still only in June! Plenty of the year left…

[jfanning]

for phones and texting, yes, but almost no one is listening to music on their Nokia phone. Almost no one wearing Nokia earbuds.

Yet I see hundreds of people wearing Nokia earbuds in Ireland (and some using AD2P headphones...) yet have only seen one person with an iPhone here

[BongoBanger]

for phones and texting, yes, but almost no one is listening to music on their Nokia phone. Almost no one wearing Nokia earbuds.

That's because Nokia ear buds are horrible. :D

Saleswise they dominate the smartphone market too though.

[koobcamuk]

Yet I see hundreds of people wearing Nokia earbuds in Ireland (and some using AD2P headphones...) yet have only seen one person with an iPhone here

Lots of people all over use the radio in their Nokia and also listen to MP3s on there. Mostly due to price. I agree that sometimes it's not worth spending all that money on something (I say on my MBP)...

[countach]

$410 million for half a share in that piece of crap? Seriously, mobile linux blows the doors of this junk, its value in 2008 is basically nil, because nobody will touch it. That's $410 million down the crapper. Who are these idiot CEOs?

[garty]

Now count the Nokia units. Nokia dominate Europe and Indo-Asia.


Nokia dominating Europe and Asia does not make the iPhone 1 a flop. Especially if your target was what - 1% of the market iirc.

[jfanning]

Nokia dominating Europe and Asia does not make the iPhone 1 a flop. Especially if your target was what - 1% of the market iirc.

Yes, but they are going for 1% of previous years market, not this years. There has been a huge growth in mobile sales and they will have to in excess of 15 million sales to meet the 1% now

[BongoBanger]

Nokia dominating Europe and Asia does not make the iPhone 1 a flop. Especially if your target was what - 1% of the market iirc.

Except the target was expressed in sales units, wasn't met and resulted in improved tarrifs and reduced costs to shift units.

It wasn't a total disaster but it wasn't a success either.

$410 million for half a share in that piece of crap? Seriously, mobile linux blows the doors of this junk, its value in 2008 is basically nil, because nobody will touch it. That's $410 million down the crapper. Who are these idiot CEOs?

It's posts like this that make me want to cry.

Symbian has two-thirds of the smartphone market. Nokia have 40% of the entire phone market and understand that the market is moving towards convergence. No-one will care about mobile Linux now because it's dead before it began.

So when you say 'nobody will touch it' you're about as wrong as you can be.

[elppa]

Yet I see hundreds of people wearing Nokia earbuds in Ireland (and some using AD2P headphones...) yet have only seen one person with an iPhone here

That's because the “deal” is terrible in Eire.

[Hattig]

$410 million for half a share in that piece of crap? Seriously, mobile linux blows the doors of this junk, its value in 2008 is basically nil, because nobody will touch it. That's $410 million down the crapper. Who are these idiot CEOs?

It seemed like a reasonable price, simply because they're buying (52% of) 2/3rds of the smartphone OS market and 6% of the overall phone OS market. There's a lot of mobile expertise here, lots of per-carrier applications are running on it already, and now it will become cheap to integrate - thus it will move down into non-smartphone areas and take over even more of the marketshare. There's also an established software ecosystem, even if it is likely that Apple will come in on the first try and nail how is should work straight away.

Where will Nokia make its money back? Not directly, that's for sure. Having a single unified Symbian ecosystem will encourage developers again who have probably been migrating to the iPhone due to the ease of development. It will also get rid of possible issues in Symbian due to multiple ownership, allowing Nokia to drive development forward with a singular vision.

[Mac Player]

Everyone i know that codes for symbian says it's a pain in the ass.

[28monkeys]

Blackberry has to be the most worried

[blakespot]

Nokia CEO: "...it will undisputedly be the most attractive platform for mobile innovation."
Riiight...



blakespot

[wheezy]

I keep seeing this trotted out as fact again and again.

( This is a long rant, and it's not meant as any personal attack - this just happened to be the most recent time I saw this particular "fact" quoted. )

Just think about this ..... Apple will do what it does best when it's on its game - ignore everyone, and then win.

Great Post JayBee. I know Steve Jobs isn't perfect, he's still human... but he has incredible foresight on both seeing current, and creating future trends. When the iPod came out, it was predicted a failure. Oops. We were wrong, he was right. The iPhone is changing everything, all the pieces are in place. The most amazing gadget ever, a solid core OS, lots of new and experienced developers, and the App store built right into the core software of the phone. They've covered all the bases from the beginning to the end.

I think the App Store is the sleeping giant of iPhone 2.0, as soon as people, regular people (not smartphone geeks) start seeing everything you can do on your iPhone, all the other developing platforms are going to have to scramble to hold on to any kind of ground and marketshare.

[Rot'nApple]

Nice to see the rest of the industry isn't sitting on its hands waiting for Apple to make its next move. Let's hope this means better software for all!

Too bad it's a shame the cellular industry had to wait for Apple to make a first move in order to act, the heck with the next one. ;)

[sjo]

Too bad it's a shame the cellular industry had to wait for Apple to make a first move in order to act, the heck with the next one. ;)

what the heck are you smoking? cell industry has been innovating for the last 20 years, the devices available today are nothing what they used to be and the innovation has only been accelerating in the recent years. apple's contribution is one over-hyped device that has had decent sales in one market.

other than multitouch apple's phone has nothing that wasn't available five years ago and lacks pile of innovative technologies that have are expected in cell phones.

[nimbuscloud]

what the heck are you smoking? cell industry has been innovating for the last 20 years, the devices available today are nothing what they used to be and the innovation has only been accelerating in the recent years. apple's contribution is one over-hyped device that has had decent sales in one market.

other than multitouch apple's phone has nothing that wasn't available five years ago and lacks pile of innovative technologies that have are expected in cell phones.

LOL

Keep tellin' yourself that, buddy.

Denile isn't a river, but delusion sure ain't no stream. :rolleyes:

:apple:

[eastcoastsurfer]

LOL

Keep tellin' yourself that, buddy.

Denile isn't a river, but delusion sure ain't no stream. :rolleyes:

:apple:

Actually he makes a good point. The iPhone isn't perfect and is simply the next step in phone evolution (and in some places it went backwards). The iPhone is by far the worst cell phone I've ever owned. It constantly drops calls, loses signal, and has bad reception. Now, it could be AT&T (I had suncom prior and I always thought they shared the network, but who knows), but I've read that I'm not alone in my analysis of the phone part of the iPhone.

Now, everything else on the iPhone works very well. It's even held up to abuse better than I thought it would. I just hope Apple doesn't screw everything up by making the App store too closed.

[jptelthorst]

other than multitouch apple's phone has nothing that wasn't available five years ago and lacks pile of innovative technologies that have are expected in cell phones.

That is an absurd statement. You aren't fake Steve Ballmer are you?

[powderblue17]

what the heck are you smoking? cell industry has been innovating for the last 20 years, the devices available today are nothing what they used to be and the innovation has only been accelerating in the recent years. apple's contribution is one over-hyped device that has had decent sales in one market.

other than multitouch apple's phone has nothing that wasn't available five years ago and lacks pile of innovative technologies that have are expected in cell phones.

The cell industry has been doing nothing but adding feature after feature while letting the software that controls those features languish. User-interfaces before the iPhone were all cumbersome and slow which is why only technical type people used smartphones before the iPhone. The iPhone is a smartphone I'm pretty sure my grandmother could use and that more technical minded people like myself also enjoy using. It appeals to almost everyone except gadget geeks who think a device is all about a spec sheet that lists needless features which all have bad user-interfaces to go with them.

[Digitalclips]

I don't get it. How is Nokia going to benefit of giving symbian for free for other manufacturers.

Maybe they can now send out an e-mail to the others using it ... "OK Guys it's free ... now HELP!!!"

[Darkroom]

i'm getting really tired of hearing about how "innovative" new tech product are by companies that make them...

"hi, i'm a CEO of a tech company. INNOVATIVE, INNOVATION, INNOVATIVE, INNOVATION, INNOVATIVE, INNOVATION"

yeah, and i'm also looking half-eyed at Apple about this too.

[rdas7]

The fact is, Nokia have been selling the same handset in a different plastic case for the past ten years. While the cellphone industry inched forward with email functionality, internet, etc. no one really took a lead and did any of it "properly" (is in, usably). I'm not pointing fingers, since admittedly most of the work was engineering-based, getting the tech to work in the first place. But it wasn't really difficult for Apple to come along and do things "right".

Just look at the email client built-in (read: hidden) in any Sony Ericsson handset, or the 15-clicks-to-launch GMail j2me client (which was great, once it was running!), and then compare it to Mail or Safari on the iPhone.

Nokia took the lead with the most intuitive UI (comparatively), which Sony Ericsson then one-upped with better icons (and animation!). Motorola focused on awesome hardware (solid build, great audio quality) and sadly forgot to get any UI designers at all (hence, good looking, unusable handsets!). Meanwhile Apple worked on iPod and OS X until they were ready to launch (note: not just announce) a product.

The next step in the saga is Google's Android platform (which will be great when it ships, but probably nowhere near as advanced as iPhone 3.0 — vaporware is always a beotch to debug).

Here's to seeing more iPhones on the tube (and elsewhere!) — because the more people are on the platform, the better it is for all of us! :)

[jfanning]

TThe iPhone is a smartphone I'm pretty sure my grandmother could use and that more technical minded people like myself also enjoy using.

That's funny, I asked my wife to try a iPod Touch one day (same interface), she hated it, found it hard to navigate around, and found it to be a very unresponsive interface

[batchtaster]

I know some will view it as a "desperate ploy", but Nokia's not going anywhere; they're still the #1 brand. Good on 'em. Maybe someone can fix the gaping inadequacies in the Symbian OSes before they turn out like the Palm OSes.

[Antares]

"it will undisputedly be the most attractive platform for mobile innovation."

Undisputedly? How could they say that? So....nobody, in the entire world...not Apple, not Google, not a single person on the MacRumors fora or anywhere else, will dispute their claim that Symbian is/will be "the most attractive platform for mobile innovation?" Hmm.....

Competition is a very good thing. Arrogance is not.

[ChrisA]

I think Apple has the lead as they have a modern OS that can be shoehorned into these and future devices. Symbian and the MS alternative are too old to take advantage of emerging markets.

Funny how something based on Unix which was first released in 1969 is a "modern OS" Yes it has been under continuous development for 30+ years but the basic design has not changed. Possibly it works because those 30+ year old computers where about as powerful as today's cell phones. It's a good match up.

[matznentosh]

RoughlyDrafted did several pieces on the operating systems used in modern cell phones. This piece seems a bit long winded but at least it gives the history of Symbian:

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/855E5843-AF47-47B7-B363-3C1FD2636F43.html

He had another piece with more info on limitations of the operating system, but I can't find it now.

I had a Psion, it was a great device, with a programmable database as well as all the contact information/calendar stuff, and would play games. Rock solid operating system, never crashed. Battery lasted forever. Hated to give it up, but as time went by it became harder and harder to find software to sync with computers. It went out of business, but the operating system was taken over and rebranded as Symbian.

Apparently, the newer version is not nearly as stable however, and I have heard similar suggestions that it is limited in its ability to support modern programs.

Still, a third choice always encourages competition which is a good thing.

[Stella]

Psion5 was a great device, ahead of its time.

Psion didn't go out of business - in fact they are still around. Psion founded Symbian and was a joint owner before selling their stake a few years ago. EPOC 5 became Symbian OS.

Psion pulled out of the PDA market around 2000/2001ish. Tragically.



I had a Psion, it was a great device, with a programmable database as well as all the contact information/calendar stuff, and would play games. Rock solid operating system, never crashed. Battery lasted forever. Hated to give it up, but as time went by it became harder and harder to find software to sync with computers. It went out of business, but the operating system was taken over and rebranded as Symbian.

Apparently, the newer version is not nearly as stable however, and I have heard similar suggestions that it is limited in its ability to support modern programs.

Still, a third choice always encourages competition which is a good thing.

[JGowan]

The thing that I've seen time and again from developers either in print, on the 'net or at various videos I've watched is that the iPhone SDK is clearly the best one they've ever used. It's easy to understand, easy to use, powerful and simply, it works. It appears that up until now, most phone developers felt that writing software for cell phones was tedious and just plain hard. Apparently, Apple has changed this.

People who want to piss and moan about features that are still not in the iPhone (video capture, MMS and the like) are not Business. Considering the huge laundry list that Apple wanted to make a reality for Enterprise customers, it's a wonder we even got such a healthy version 2 in the upcoming iPhone 3G. The fact that the Apps store is a reality just one year later, to me, is astounding. Sprinkle on the top improvements all around in stability, performance I'm sure we'll see in 2.0, it's a slap in Apple's face that people bemoan that every single feature that COULD'VE been made, wasn't. Apple has to keep some of the bigger features for future generations of the phone.

One big "WTF" in my book is people who keep saying "just add up the numbers and you'll see that you're paying $160 more for the iPhone now over the next 2 years than the original iPhone despite the $200 price drop up front."… Yeah…*well, I could've put my daughter through college from all the SNICKERS® money I've blown over the years, too. True, stuff adds up over time, but it kills me that all of these a-holes never mention that #1 you're service is MUCH FASTER; #2 AT&T IS NOT gouging iPhone users on 3G service (this $30 is standard for all others, too); #3 Price is IN LINE when compared to other providers. The old adage "you get what you pay for" holds true (big time) in this instance and the naysayers here are simply looking for stuff to bash the iPhone/Apple/AT&T for.

Sure, Nokia has to do something. The iPhone is moving up quickly to become the "must have" device in teens' minds. Now with such an attractive pricetag and business capabilities, I can see why the competition is worrried just a little bit.

[Povilas]

That's funny, I asked my wife to try a iPod Touch one day (same interface), she hated it, found it hard to navigate around, and found it to be a very unresponsive interface

My friends kid figured out how to use iPhone like in 2 minutes he's 6 years old. He likes it very much. BTW "found it hard to navigate around" sounds like joke, no really like joke while it's so easy to use dead man shouldn't have problems. ;)

[mac*jedi*g]

Hmmm, do I here someone yelling "Festivus...for the Rest-of-us, Dammit!":eek:

Apple's iPhone has the UI and web experience that has changed it all. I am elated that hear some of these other cellphone makers are now being made aware that the consumer has changed, and don't want just anything thrown our way with a lot of bells and whistles on it. Make something we can really use. So let the games begin!

[Prom1]

Although the iPhone is having an impact on the industry I doubt this move is directly related to the iPhone. Y?:

1> Nokia's Touch S60 is nowhere near production yet. Still a few mths away.
2> Motorola's wireless business is seriously hurting. They've spent serious monies to own have of UIQ from SonyEricsson with licensing partnership rights. THIS is beginning to hurt the OS and developement community as a whole. SE just dropped 2 - hardware medicre - devices "Paris" and "BeiBei" codenames. SE spent a LONG time in development for both. But alas wasted dollars. Hopefully inhouse UIQ benefits will transfer into S60 Touch, but I see nothing (not even Touch Interface) of UIQ that could benefit S60 at all. S60 will remain, while S60 Touch will borough heavily from UIQ ... Nokia DID release in limited quantities a UIQ smartphone last year, and they already have 3yrs experience on S90 (based on S60 & older S80 platforms of Symbian OS) using TouchScreen interface: 7700 for providers in Europe & 7710 (some may recall seeing it in a Misdemeanor video, 1.5yrs ago).

[Belly-laughs]

That's funny, I asked my wife to try a iPod Touch one day (same interface), she hated it, found it hard to navigate around, and found it to be a very unresponsive interface

Funnier still, my 3 1/2 year old son navigates it beautifully. He launches YouTube and the iPod, scrolls through bookmarks and video playlists, closes shows to pick another, fast forwards... It's like 2nd nature to him. He even messes with my ringtones so he has no hard time navigating and finding what's interesting to him.

[jfanning]

My friends kid figured out how to use iPhone like in 2 minutes he's 6 years old. He likes it very much. BTW "found it hard to navigate around" sounds like joke, no really like joke while it's so easy to use dead man shouldn't have problems. ;)

Yeah, that's because it is a kid, you can give kids anything with minimum instructions and they will be able to use it. The original guy reckoned it would be simple for a grandmother to use, I don't believe him.

[Laglorden]

Yes, Nokia may be "scared" and that's something that good for companys to be in some manner. That's when they do things, both desperate, good and bad.

Why did Apple invent the iPhone? Right, because they were scared, desperatly scared of Nokia stealing their lovely revenue. Sure, Apple might have owned the mp3-player market (in the U.S. at least) but as soon as Nokia added mp3-capability to their phones they became the dominant player. Steve Jobs saw this, got "scared" (or saw an opportunity if you want) and made a decision between "throw our development of the iPod, itunes and so on in the thrash (ouch, how the stock-price hurts!!!) or start developing phones".

I think Apple still is more scared than Nokia. Apple might have sold 10 million more phones in 2007 than in 2006, Nokia probably sold a couple of 100 million more phones in 2007 than 2006. I wouldn't be too afraid. In the same time Apple's iPod sales are stagnating...

[!¡ V ¡!]

Technically the iPhone is not even a phone, its a mini computer with a "soft phone" as the primary application. Everything else that runs on it is a bonus of the product and noting more.

Having a Headphone and Microphone does not make it a true phone, heck it does not even have a tactile numberpad/keyboard for it to be remotely considered a such.

Calling something a phone does not make it a phone, it is only a twist of the definition. ;):)

[elppa]

Yes, Nokia may be "scared" and that's something that good for companys to be in some manner. That's when they do things, both desperate, good and bad.

Why did Apple invent the iPhone? Right, because they were scared, desperatly scared of Nokia stealing their lovely revenue. Sure, Apple might have owned the mp3-player market (in the U.S. at least) but as soon as Nokia added mp3-capability to their phones they became the dominant player.

Not really, because Apple was (and still is) selling iPods by the bucket load long after most phones had music/media playback. It would have happened eventually though, without a doubt.

[Povilas]

Yeah, that's because it is a kid, you can give kids anything with minimum instructions and they will be able to use it. The original guy reckoned it would be simple for a grandmother to use, I don't believe him.

I believe.

[localoid]

Yeah, that's because it is a kid, you can give kids anything with minimum instructions and they will be able to use it. The original guy reckoned it would be simple for a grandmother to use, I don't believe him.

That's because young kids aren't afraid of it... they're not afraid to experiment by touching, pushing, poking, etc. until they make "something happen". Once they learn what does or doesn't get a response or make something happen they continue to build on this approach to learning by "hacking" away at the problem or challenge. ;) Most adults on the other hand are far too uptight, e.g., they think they'll break it if they press the wrong key and wouldn't dare "experiment" by simply pressing/clicking something to see what happens.

[!¡ V ¡!]

That's funny, I asked my wife to try a iPod Touch one day (same interface), she hated it, found it hard to navigate around, and found it to be a very unresponsive interface

I would have to agree with your wife on the unresponsive feel of the iPhone OS, however adding to that I have only tried the demo model and that means daily abuse from customers.

For some reason, its caching memory needs a boost to fix this issue. Anyone here know for fact the amount of cache the iPhone OS has on-board (please don't tell be 8GB or 16GB, that is the storage memory). :p;)

[jmadlena]

Software Version 2.0 and the App Store will change this business totally.

Doubt it since it's not offering anything that the other manufacturers don't already.

Symbian may be open and free to develop for, but does it/will it have an app-store of types on every single Symbian running phone?

What is the distribution process on Symbian phones?

These are genuine questions. Thanks for any info.

[Stella]

Symbian may be open and free to develop for, but does it/will it have an app-store of types on every single Symbian running phone?

What is the distribution process on Symbian phones?

These are genuine questions. Thanks for any info.

1. There's a small app store on some Nokia phones that you can download an install on your phone
2. App installation:

a) download directly on phone using built in web browser and install
b) Bluetooth push from your PC and install on symbian phone
c) use nokia provided application ( windows only ) to install on to phone
d) send SMS with URL and download


3. most applications can be downloaded from web sites, similar to Mac apps - allaboutsymbian.com, my-symbian.com , www.s60.com etc etc etc.

[jmadlena]

1. There's a small app store on some Nokia phones that you can download an install on your phone
2. App installation:

a) download directly on phone using built in web browser and install
b) Bluetooth push from your PC and install on symbian phone
c) use nokia provided application ( windows only ) to install on to phone
d) send SMS with URL and download


3. most applications can be downloaded from web sites, similar to Mac apps - allaboutsymbian.com, my-symbian.com , www.s60.com etc etc etc.

Interesting. So Apple's app-store is very similar to the one used by Symbian. Has this been good for developers (the app store)? Or would you say it isn't utilized much, or has few apps to download?

I'm just wondering whether this implementation has worked in the past. Maybe a glimpse into the iPhone's future.

[alphaod]

I don't get it. How is Nokia going to benefit of giving symbian for free for other manufacturers.

Developers who still have to pay the signing of their applications will have to go through Nokia.

Symbian may be open and free to develop for, but does it/will it have an app-store of types on every single Symbian running phone?

What is the distribution process on Symbian phones?

These are genuine questions. Thanks for any info.

Don't forget applications you buy on the iPhone will be attached your account so you can't just sell your applications to someone else when you don't want it anymore; with Symbian, you can transfer your license...

[Anuba]

Ugh. Symbian sucks worse than Windows Mobile. Every Symbian-driven SonyEricsson or Nokia phone I've ever used is like some 80's home computer... slow as molasses, butt ugly graphics, primitive, cumbersome, unintuitive, crashes and hangs all the time. Nokia has my condolences.

[BongoBanger]

1. There's a small app store on some Nokia phones that you can download an install on your phone
2. App installation:

a) download directly on phone using built in web browser and install
b) Bluetooth push from your PC and install on symbian phone
c) use nokia provided application ( windows only ) to install on to phone
d) send SMS with URL and download


3. most applications can be downloaded from web sites, similar to Mac apps - allaboutsymbian.com, my-symbian.com , www.s60.com etc etc etc.

I think Nokia need to get their distribution channels together - at the moment we have Ovi, Comes with Music, N-Gage and Download!. They need to combine all that under one umbrella (probably Ovi) and they'll really kick arse.

[Stella]

Interesting. So Apple's app-store is very similar to the one used by Symbian. Has this been good for developers (the app store)? Or would you say it isn't utilized much, or has few apps to download?

I'm just wondering whether this implementation has worked in the past. Maybe a glimpse into the iPhone's future.

There isn't one for all Symbian devices, the one used for Nokia ( which is preloaded on to phones ) is for Nokia phone and no other flavour of Symbian and is much different. The Apple one is probably much different.

All the symbian phones I've had, I've had no problem with, personally. And yes, I've put plenty of apps on my phone. I certainly haven't brought the East coast cell network crashing down <g>.

[ruinfx]

Ugh. Symbian sucks worse than Windows Mobile. Every Symbian-driven SonyEricsson or Nokia phone I've ever used is like some 80's home computer... slow as molasses, butt ugly graphics, primitive, cumbersome, unintuitive, crashes and hangs all the time. Nokia has my condolences.

LOL, try a new model maybe?

[Prom1]

Yes, Nokia may be "scared" and that's something that good for companys to be in some manner. That's when they do things, both desperate, good and bad.

Why did Apple invent the iPhone? Right, because they were scared, desperatly scared of Nokia stealing their lovely revenue. Sure, Apple might have owned the mp3-player market (in the U.S. at least) but as soon as Nokia added mp3-capability to their phones they became the dominant player. Steve Jobs saw this, got "scared" (or saw an opportunity if you want) and made a decision between "throw our development of the iPod, itunes and so on in the thrash (ouch, how the stock-price hurts!!!) or start developing phones".

I think Apple still is more scared than Nokia. Apple might have sold 10 million more phones in 2007 than in 2006, Nokia probably sold a couple of 100 million more phones in 2007 than 2006. I wouldn't be too afraid. In the same time Apple's iPod sales are stagnating...

Just a little correction here .... SonyEricsson was the dominant cellphone player when it came to music phones, lol. Nokia DID make a huge dent along with them though ;)

Symbian may be open and free to develop for, but does it/will it have an app-store of types on every single Symbian running phone?

What is the distribution process on Symbian phones?

These are genuine questions. Thanks for any info.

Um ... lmao ....

I think MANY users here have NO CLUE about Symbian and just how powerful and WHY Nokia sells the lions share of smartphones across the world. Phones are sold either via providers or retail market. Applications ... you have many online stores or blogs or straight from developers/developer houses.

Media: Pics, documents, videos, music sharing = Ovi
http://www.ovi.com/ovi/app/ovi/web/index/

Games ... remember the N-Gage phone? HAH its fully matured into a gaming store and API now.
http://www.n-gage.com/ngi/ngage/web/g0/en/location.html

Devices for corporate world and software & initiatives behind them:
http://www.nokiaforbusiness.com/nfb/find_a_product/product_category.html?guid=bb619bb3c8ba6110VgnVCM100000708ef393RCRD

* Oh did I mention support for not just MS Exchange, but also for Novell GroupWise or Lotus Domino?!:
http://www.nokiaforbusiness.com/nfb/find_a_product/product_details.html?guid=0fb83b9acef96110VgnVCM100000708ef393RCRD

- the largest nuclear power company in the USA rely's on the security of Novel GroupWise.


now for info on Symbian:
* Press: http://www.symbian.com/news/pr/2008/pr20089950.html
* Scope: http://www.symbian.com/developer/fastfacts/index.html
* Recent Symbian OS Releases: http://www.symbian.com/symbianos/releases/symbianosreleases.html
* Symbian OS facts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbian_OS
^ take a seriously GOOD read here to know just how powerful this OS is ... and realize just how close to a desktop OS it really is; not just what is "capable" but also what is being DONE to enable it!

FACTS:
* 154 Million current phones (Q1 2008) in the market place
* $4.1US avg Royalty/unit
* Number of Symbian models in development: 70
* 9,282 third-party Symbian applications now commercially available, a 24% increase on 31 March 2007 (7478 applications)
* Symbian OS is 10yrs old; roughly a little older if you count its powerful, and yet humble beginnings: Epoc. Remember Psion?!

Development, tip of the iceberg:
http://www.forum.nokia.com/main/resources/technologies/open_c/quickstart.html


End user joys?
Flash Lite 3.0
Python, Ruby based applications, SQL Lite
Remember Apples core idea of Widgets? How about on your phone ... http://www.widsets.com/library.html (btw, its been there longer than the iPhone).

Now with Vodafone (arguably the worlds largest provider - in # of users, Coverage and partnerships, and places they offer services), NTT DoCoMo (a network serving 100's of millions of subscribers; a network the iPhone will never be on), multiple manufacturers working together, what does Nokia have to fear from Apple, and their iPhone?! Seriously? I think its more a pre-emptive counter strike against Andriod and other mobile Linux entities.

[28monkeys]

what the heck are you smoking? cell industry has been innovating for the last 20 years, the devices available today are nothing what they used to be and the innovation has only been accelerating in the recent years. apple's contribution is one over-hyped device that has had decent sales in one market.

other than multitouch apple's phone has nothing that wasn't available five years ago and lacks pile of innovative technologies that have are expected in cell phones.

Sjo makes a good point. But i would like to add that this is only strategy that we have seen until now from a mobile phone in an afford to protect their market share. I wish to see what HTC and blackberry can do to counter this influence as well.

[ruinfx]

HTC phones will become very attractive once android comes out.

[53399]

---

[furrina]

i think symbian is pretty impressive (used it on several nokia smartphones: 6681, e61, thinking of getting an e71 rather than iphone 3g). But like most mobile applications (open-source or proprietary, though the latter try to make their apps "seem" more user-friendly) it seems to be in its adolescence compared to the user-interfaces we're used to in PCs at this point.

isn't nokia actually buying symbian going to lead to more proprietary b*llshit?

[jptelthorst]

Funny how something based on Unix which was first released in 1969 is a "modern OS" Yes it has been under continuous development for 30+ years but the basic design has not changed. Possibly it works because those 30+ year old computers where about as powerful as today's cell phones. It's a good match up.

The cell phones are probably even more powerful...

[Malfoy]

isn't nokia actually buying symbian going to lead to more proprietary b*llshit?

No? They sell unlocked phones that let you do pretty much anything u want. I've been streaming music (can't stop me ATT!), using full mp3s as ringtones, playing divx, sending 5mp pics as multimedia messages with no problems. I <3 them.

[Prom1]

That is an absurd statement. You aren't fake Steve Ballmer are you?

Expected technologies:
* Copy and Paste already.
* Flash Lite 3.0 helps browsing sites that USE it. Mobile YouTube is not efficient.
* That speakerphone proximity sensor that Steve bragged about? was on a phone older than 8yrs ago ... Ericsson R520m! No other phone has used that paradigm until now ... patents DO go out of date you know.
* Advertising iPhone as a corporate acceptable device? You NEED to support more than 1 Email platform - not just MS'. Lotus Domino has some SERIOUS power and v 8 Notes & Domino support Open Document File type.
* Touchscreen has been here for a LONG time and I swear if MS improved the Windows Mobile by innovating every 6 mths as it SHOULD have, the iPhone wouldn't bee so surprising to enjoy; trust me. HTC makes great devices and their TouchFlo UI is getting VERY close to the iPhone experience. However I cannot STAND MS' Mobile OS. Its horribly implemented.

My point is, sure we can LOVE the iPhone and what it represents. 1yr is strong, but not enough to sing praise, considering its current limitations and growth into 3rd party developers its got a LONG hill ahead for the long run. The world market has different perceptions on phone usage. We'll see how it works out.

The fact is, Nokia have been selling the same handset in a different plastic case for the past ten years. While the cellphone industry inched forward with email functionality, internet, etc. no one really took a lead and did any of it "properly" (is in, usably). I'm not pointing fingers, since admittedly most of the work was engineering-based, getting the tech to work in the first place. But it wasn't really difficult for Apple to come along and do things "right".

Are you drunk?! RIM has been doing Email (corporate) for more than 5yrs and doing it VERY well. Internet I'd so is so so; we'll see the BB Bold evolve significantly this summer in this realm. RIM is THE KING of EMAIL (BlackBerry) worldwide BAR NONE!

Just look at the email client built-in (read: hidden) in any Sony Ericsson handset, or the 15-clicks-to-launch GMail j2me client (which was great, once it was running!), and then compare it to Mail or Safari on the iPhone.

Really?! I have "Applications" setup as my Shortcut key on my SE K850i.
9 Clicks! Bam I'm launching Opera Mini! 6 for GMail J2ME. my apps alphabetically are:
1. SonyEricsson (web link; part of the Firmware)
2. eBuddy (MSN/Yahoo/ICQ/AOL IM client PURE FREE just my data usage I pay for).
3. FaceWarp
4. Gmail
5. Google Maps
6 HP Print
7 MobyExplorer
8 Opera Mini
9. Photo Mate.

* this ALL includes the K850i from standby mode on the Homescreen, pressing the O-Pad to wake it, shorcut key, pressing UP to get to "Applications" Opera Mini (9), (8clicks) if I include the "*" key and touchcapacitance key to unlock the phone from standby. No big deal because its fast.

* Now lets compare Email on the BB (whether on BIS or BES) to iPhones Mail (user or via MS Exchange). No contest the BB kills the iPhone. I'll get to my point later.


Nokia took the lead with the most intuitive UI (comparatively), which Sony Ericsson then one-upped with better icons (and animation!). Motorola focused on awesome hardware (solid build, great audio quality) and sadly forgot to get any UI designers at all (hence, good looking, unusable handsets!). Meanwhile Apple worked on iPod and OS X until they were ready to launch (note: not just announce) a product.

Wow short attention span there. Apple "Announced" the iPhone 1.0; Six MONTHS before it was delivered. FCC approved it almost 2mths before sales by AT&T begun. Announce a product indeed.


The next step in the saga is Google's Android platform (which will be great when it ships, but probably nowhere near as advanced as iPhone 3.0 — vaporware is always a beotch to debug).

Here's to seeing more iPhones on the tube (and elsewhere!) — because the more people are on the platform, the better it is for all of us! :)

Great Post JayBee. I know Steve Jobs isn't perfect, he's still human... but he has incredible foresight on both seeing current, and creating future trends. When the iPod came out, it was predicted a failure. Oops. We were wrong, he was right. The iPhone is changing everything, all the pieces are in place. The most amazing gadget ever, a solid core OS, lots of new and experienced developers, and the App store built right into the core software of the phone. They've covered all the bases from the beginning to the end.

I think the App Store is the sleeping giant of iPhone 2.0, as soon as people, regular people (not smartphone geeks) start seeing everything you can do on your iPhone, all the other developing platforms are going to have to scramble to hold on to any kind of ground and marketshare.

Hmm you must NOT remember the Newton do you?!
* It TOO was powerful and forward thinking!
* It allowed Email over the network but at 9.6/19.9/21.3kbps SLOOW.
* It allowed faxing; oh yeah btw, FAX was the Email of the dinosaurs!
* Those that can find video of the MessagePad on the web, I emplore you to find the OS X "poof" animation! Yup the Newton had it too, and FIRST.

Basically the Newton was VERY powerful, yet although it was huge that wasn't what killed it. Its accessories enabled it further, and marketing was spot on. However, what KILLED it was its CLOSED system. It took YEARS - long after Steve angrily made it a bastard stepchild - for homebrew/3rd party apps to be enabled for it. I still see a limited and governing body type system with Symbian, Palm OS, and the iPhone.

* Symbian is changing so that developers won't need to "sign" their apps, nor the end users - a response to years ago when its file system was cracked and N-Gage games became EASILY FREE, end user fonts could be customized into the system (its still there but with software now).
* Apple governs ALL 3rd party apps to be from the iTunes Store or the mobile version. Ur apps have to get Apple approval before listed. Sure it means that they'll work, but what if it enabled too much user freedom of installation sources, or more precise control of the overall unit?! Yeah I doubt those apps make it in the next 3yrs on the iPhone. Funny I thought Apple was the pirates ;).
* Andriod, and LiMo Foundation allows NE1 that can code to be able to market their own software/works and allow the END user "choice" on where to purchase/download them! Symbian already has most of this in placel
* Funny but those that remember Palm OS 5.1 will recall how Palm did the EXACT Opposite of what Nokia is doing today. I STILL cannot fathom why they haven't gone out of business YET! They waist money, mindshare, and licensee's trust like no parasite before it.

[jfanning]

You need a new wife...

No you need to understand that Apple is getting into a market that they do not totally understand. And they started in the poorest mobile market of them all.

They are pushing a phone that will not make huge sales, they are pushing it at a time when people believe there is a recession on, so committing up to $100 a month (the international plans convert to this, if not more) is way too much, especially for what it gives you.

Yeah there are problems with some S60 phones, I have one, and have problems with it, but would happily by another. And I can send MMS messages, I can forward SMS messages to other people, I can cut/paste. I can use it on pre-pay

[twoodcc]

very interesting. i still think the iphone will end up being the best though

[chameleon81]

very interesting. i still think the iphone will end up being the best though

With 2 megapixel camera it is very hard for iphone to end up the best.

You can get a FREE Nokia N95 with 8 GB harddrive if u sign up for a £30 contract. 5 mega pixel plus flash light

iPhone' s camera is useless.It has the same camera like the low end phones from other manufacturers .

Of course it depends if you value the ability to take quality pictures on a cell phone ( i do )

[macerroneous]

With 2 megapixel camera it is very hard for iphone to end up the best.

You can get a FREE Nokia N95 with 8 GB harddrive if u sign up for a £30 contract. 5 mega pixel plus flash light

iPhone' s camera is useless.It has the same camera like the low end phones from other manufacturers .

Of course it depends if you value the ability to take quality pictures on a cell phone ( i do )

I use many iphone photos i have taken as screensavers on my 20" imac screen. it's a HUGE screen, and don't ask me what it's resolution is, but I'm sure it is likewise megapixellicious. The iphone shots look great. (Granted, not as good as photos from my 6 megapixel cannon) "I know Nokia. I've had Nokia. Believe me, you're no Nokia." Thank God.

[chameleon81]

I use many iphone photos i have taken as screensavers on my 20" imac screen. it's a HUGE screen, and don't ask me what it's resolution is, but I'm sure it is likewise megapixellicious. The iphone shots look great. (Granted, not as good as photos from my 6 megapixel cannon) "I know Nokia. I've had Nokia. Believe me, you're no Nokia." Thank God.

Nope, I saw pictures from iPhone and they are rubbish. Check this photo (http://picasaweb.google.com/kaanaksoy81/NewAlbum260620080838/photo#5216091465484431666) , it was taken with sony ericcson k800i ( 3.2 mega pixel ). Please put one of your iPhone photos so everyone can compare it.

I was dreaming about the new iPhone that it would have a decent camera but unfortunately it did not happen.

I dont know where you are from but I guess from USA. You dont have good Nokia , Sony , Samsung phones offered by Mobile networks.