Whats wrong w/ the touchscreen keyboard? [Archive]

Niiro13

Jun 25, 2008, 03:49 PM

The iPhone does have a QWERTY keyboard. What on Earth are you talking about?

Oh come on, do you have to be so inflexible? You couldn't tell that they meant physical keys (like the Blackberrys)?

Anyway, the touchscreen is really nice. But some people want to either text in class or in the car (not good).

vi2867

Jun 25, 2008, 03:50 PM

Try closing your eyes and type a message on the iphone...

baseballbent

Jun 25, 2008, 03:53 PM

vi2867

Jun 25, 2008, 03:55 PM

Ok, you win...

newyorksole

Jun 25, 2008, 04:00 PM

People like the fact that the keys are always right there on physical keyboards. I personally love this advancement in touch screen keyboards and am very happy with the iPhone's.

iPhonedHome

Jun 25, 2008, 04:05 PM

I would much prefer the lavish screen real estate vs. having a fixed QWERTY keyboard.

Physical keyboard on a cell phone 5 years ago = Greatness!

Physical keyboard on a cell phone today = piss

baseballbent

Jun 25, 2008, 04:06 PM

Ok, you win...

i used my iphone so much that the battery was shot and my touchscreen was acting up. i couldnt use the bottom of the touchscreen so i was unable to unlock my iphone. and before that my phone would freeze often and i would have to restart it but when i did it would freeze on the unlock screen and id hav to restart it again. i was a mess

(ok...maybe it wasnt from overuse, just wear and tear)

so i was outa town this weekend going to kansas city and minnesota. so on the drive to minnesota the touchscreen stopped working and i went to the apple store in the mall of america and they gave me a brand new iphone cuz im still under warranty!!! i was so stoked!! but they couldnt activate it there cuz the system was down for some reason. so i had to wait till i got back to Los Angeles to activate it. that part kinda sucked but it was all worth it cuz i got a brand spaking new iphone. yaaa!! and my warranty ends on monday. lol. so ya i lucked out big time

NT1440

Jun 25, 2008, 04:08 PM

i used my iphone so much that the battery was shot and my touchscreen was acting up. i couldnt use the bottom of the touchscreen so i was unable to unlock my iphone. and before that my phone would freeze often and i would have to restart it but when i did it would freeze on the unlock screen and id hav to restart it again. i was a mess

(ok...maybe it wasnt from overuse, just wear and tear)

so i was outa town this weekend going to kansas city and minnesota. so on the drive to minnesota the touchscreen stopped working and i went to the apple store in the mall of america and they gave me a brand new iphone cuz im still under warranty!!! i was so stoked!! but they couldnt activate it there cuz the system was down for some reason. so i had to wait till i got back to Los Angeles to activate it. that part kinda sucked but it was all worth it cuz i got a brand spaking new iphone. yaaa!! and my warranty ends on monday. lol. so ya i lucked out big time

??what does this have to do with the thread on physical keyboards u started??

Shackler

Jun 25, 2008, 04:10 PM

Physical keyboard on a cell phone today = piss

Thats a bit of a stretch. The VAST majority still prefers a physical keyboard.

newyorksole

Jun 25, 2008, 04:15 PM

??what does this have to do with the thread on physical keyboards u started??

Hes saying that touch screen keyboards aren't as trustworthy as physical keys/buttons. That is somewhat true, but I still prefer touch screen.

surferfromuk

Jun 25, 2008, 04:18 PM

Thats a bit of a stretch. The VAST majority still prefers a physical keyboard.

and 5 years from now there will be no physical keyboards on any smartphone....

baseballbent

Jun 25, 2008, 04:23 PM

and 5 years from now there will be no physical keyboards on any smartphone....

i dont know about that one. sure touchscreens will continue to show up on phones, but i think the physical keyboards will still exist for quite a long time

tritonj

Jun 25, 2008, 04:24 PM

and 5 years from now there will be no physical keyboards on any smartphone....

and 5 years from now those software keyboards will be a lot better than the ones now. the point i think people are making is the current ones are good enough for them to leave their physical keyboards. i personally used both and they feel about the same so it makes no difference to me but i can certainly see the argument

benmrii

Jun 25, 2008, 04:30 PM

In my opinion, the large screen size is worth the trade off. But all other things being equal (and they aren't), the physical keyboard on the Treo or Blackberry is a much better keyboard. Primarily for the tactile feedback.

The General

Jun 25, 2008, 04:30 PM

Try closing your eyes and type a message on the iphone...

Well, I'm not blind and I don't need to type messages while not looking at the phone, but I have noticed that I am able to type without looking at the keyboard on my iPhone.

I am actually faster on the smaller keyboard than on the wider Safari keyboard. :p

kdarling

Jun 25, 2008, 04:41 PM

I would much prefer the lavish screen real estate vs. having a fixed QWERTY keyboard.

Sometimes I would prefer having both the lavish screen real estate and keyboard. A slide out touch keyboard would be okay.

(Hate it when trying to type into a forum reply field and the keyboard takes up most of the space.)

ChrisN

Jun 25, 2008, 05:23 PM

Try closing your eyes and type a message on the iphone...

im gonna try this again, last time i tried i failed.... miserably

ChrisN

operator207

Jun 26, 2008, 09:41 AM

Tactile Feedback is probably the most common reason. I personally can type faster on my BB8830 than my iPhone. Though I do not type nearly as much on my iPhone, which probably contributes to the slowness of my typing on it.

I love my iPhone, but if I was stuck with having to choose between the 2, and my only use for whichever I picked was email/texting, I would choose the BB over the iPhone.

If I consider every aspect of both phones, and I used them the way I use them now, I would choose the iPhone. But since I have both (one is work, one is personal, I am not that rich to have have 2 phones), I have the luxury of not having to pick.

mark34

Jun 26, 2008, 10:29 AM

The benefits of the iPhone approach to a smartphone are so vast that I am willing to sacrifice a physical keyboard. However, if I ONLY did texts and emails then I would prefer to have a physical keyboard for sure.

However, a physical keyboard creates such compromises in design that I just have to get used to the lack of tactile feedback you are faced with when using a software keyboard and get used to not texting while I drive (which is such a bad idea to begin with).

I am hopeful that I will get really fast and second nature with the software keyboard. I have used it on my iPod Touch, but I have not needed to depend on it as much as I will when I give up my Blackjack for the 3G iPhone. I am assuming that as with most things, practice will make perfect.

I believe that I will always, in a vacuum, prefer typing on a physical keyboard. That having been said, the iPhone keyboard approach is better than any other software keyboard i have ever used.

I have yet to be able to "two-thumb" type on the iPod Touch with any degree of effectiveness. I am annoyingly fast with two thumbs on my Blackjack.

macfearless

Jun 26, 2008, 10:34 AM

It'd be awesome if the keyboard had a sensor that enlarged whatever group of keys your finger was over. It's fine for now...

Rojo

Jun 26, 2008, 10:48 AM

I have yet to be able to "two-thumb" type on the iPod Touch with any degree of effectiveness.

Well I was two-thumbing on the iPhone from the get-go -- I didn't want to try with one finger at first, because I didn't want to get used to that.
Yeah, it was slow at the beginning, and I had to learn to "trust" the iPhone's predictive text, but once I did I've been lightning quick ever since.

A friend gave me her BlackBerry to do something on it the other day, and I felt slightly retarded using the keyboard (similar to what I used to have on my old phone). It seemed sooooo slow to type on. And like before, I would sometimes hit the wrong key - but no predictive text software to correct me, unfortunately. I actually find the "tactileness" of the buttons slows me down in the end. I feel like I NEED to feel that tactile push of the button being pressed, whereas with the iPhone I just type away at ridiculous speeds -- with no worries of that tactile feedback getting in the way. I admit it seemed "weird" at first, but once I got used to it I realized it DOES make texting so much faster.

I've literally done texting races with my friends (because they keep claiming iPhone texting is slow, and I love to prove them wrong), where they've used BB-style keyboards, T9 texting, you name it...and I'm ALWAYS faster than them with whatever we're given to type. I've never lost a texting race yet... :D

mark34

Jun 26, 2008, 12:10 PM

That's good to know. I will use the force... trust in the text

Digital Skunk

Jun 26, 2008, 12:30 PM

and 5 years from now those software keyboards will be a lot better than the ones now.

They are that way now. Look at any other touch keyboard besides the iPhone. ;)

earnjam

Jun 26, 2008, 01:41 PM

I actually find the "tactileness" of the buttons slows me down in the end. I feel like I NEED to feel that tactile push of the button being pressed, whereas with the iPhone I just type away at ridiculous speeds -- with no worries of that tactile feedback getting in the way. I admit it seemed "weird" at first, but once I got used to it I realized it DOES make texting so much faster.

I agree. The whole step of pressing down on the button is skipped on the iPhone. My fingers can basically hover and slide over the touch screen. The physics behind lightly tapping a screen vs pressing in a plastic button naturally lean toward the touch screen being faster.

I have a hard time typing on smartphone phone physical keyboards now that I have my iPhone. I end up not pressing buttons all the way in because I'm wanting to go faster and just touching them doesn't work.

firewood

Jun 26, 2008, 04:51 PM

The VAST majority still prefers a physical keyboard.

Palm actually did some market research on this. It's closer to 50/50 than a vast majority either way.

Some people's brains are likely wired up to recognize feedback faster from the fine touch sense rather than from sight or using muscle memory, and some people are the other way.

I suppose one could learn to prefer the other way (say if one were blinded due to some illness, or lost some fingers in an accident), but that would take some time.

Digital Skunk

Jun 26, 2008, 04:55 PM

Palm actually did some market research on this. It's closer to 50/50 than a vast majority either way.

Is there is a link for that? Just curious to know what in the world Palm is up to... other than making 2002 technology smaller and smaller, but keeping their OS the same.

marksman

Jun 26, 2008, 04:59 PM

i can easily type on the iphone w/o having to look at it. after almost a full year of using it and 50000 text messages its very easy to do. sure i may make a simple mistake but the advanced keyboard always corrects me.

That is what people don't understand. You learn to type based on position. Not tactile feedback. If that were the case then when using a normal keyboard you would always be hitting the side of the keys and have them slide into place, which is not how people use a keyboard.

Change out your normal keyboard on your computer with one that is slightly a different size. You will find yourself making a lot of typos until you adjust to where you place your fingers to type.

This is no different than using the iPhone. People way overrate the need to feel the keystroke to type accurately. It has almost nothing to do with accuracy.

Palm actually did some market research on this. It's closer to 50/50 than a vast majority either way.

Some people's brains are likely wired up to recognize feedback faster from the fine touch sense rather than from sight or using muscle memory, and some people are the other way.

That makes no sense. The tactile feedback does not tell you what key you hit, just that you hit a key. You would still need sight or muscle memory to know you hit the right key.

That is why the physical feedback is so over-rated.

marksman

Jun 26, 2008, 05:01 PM

i dont know about that one. sure touchscreens will continue to show up on phones, but i think the physical keyboards will still exist for quite a long time

No.

There is no reason to have a large hardware keyboard eating up half or more the physical space of a smart phone.

I would say 5 years you might have a straggler or two clinging on to the out-dated technology, but it is definitely on the way out.

marksman

Jun 26, 2008, 05:04 PM

It'd be awesome if the keyboard had a sensor that enlarged whatever group of keys your finger was over. It's fine for now...

It has something useful akin to that. Essentially the hit pad is predictive and for the expected next letter you are much more likely to hit it.

Ie if you were typing out H-E-L-L-O

and had typed in H-E-L, and say you hit down between the O, the K and the L. It is going to strike as an L, as it is much more likely you are going HELL or HELLO than HELK or HELO.

tritonj

Jun 26, 2008, 05:06 PM

That is what people don't understand. You learn to type based on position. Not tactile feedback. If that were the case then when using a normal keyboard you would always be hitting the side of the keys and have them slide into place, which is not how people use a keyboard.

Change out your normal keyboard on your computer with one that is slightly a different size. You will find yourself making a lot of typos until you adjust to where you place your fingers to type.

This is no different than using the iPhone. People way overrate the need to feel the keystroke to type accurately. It has almost nothing to do with accuracy.

this comparison makes no sense, you're comparing "typing" on a keyboard with pushing buttons on a screen, and last tiime i checked you can't "type" in the traditional sense on an iPhone, you push buttons with your finger, and for some people they just like having a physical keyboard because they can figure out keys based on position even without looking at it. and that is something you can't do with a virtual keyboard because you have no point of reference on a flat surface to know your relative position

Digital Skunk

Jun 26, 2008, 05:09 PM

this comparison makes no sense, you're comparing "typing" on a keyboard with pushing buttons on a screen, and last tiime i checked you can't "type" in the traditional sense on an iPhone, you push buttons with your finger, and for some people they just like having a physical keyboard because they can figure out keys based on position even without looking at it. and that is something you can't do with a virtual keyboard because you have no point of reference on a flat surface to know your relative position

Seriously, no sarcasm intended at all, but that statement really makes sense. I hope others can get that through their heads.

tritonj

Jun 26, 2008, 05:10 PM

No.

There is no reason to have a large hardware keyboard eating up half or more the physical space of a smart phone.

I would say 5 years you might have a straggler or two clinging on to the out-dated technology, but it is definitely on the way out.

they may not be around in 5 years but it doesn't reflect on a technology being out-dated, all that means is companies aren't making it that way anymore, and the reason isn't always because there is a better alternative, there are many examples of companies standardizing with inferior technology for one reason or another, Betamax vs VHS comes to mind

and you don't have to take up half the screen, they may start doing more slider keyboards

crazychris3992

Jun 26, 2008, 05:12 PM

what I like about a virtual keyboard, is that you can change the language characters of the keyboard, without having to change the hardware. The physical keyboard can't do that just by software.

tritonj

Jun 26, 2008, 05:14 PM

what I like about a virtual keyboard, is that you can change the language characters of the keyboard, without having to change the hardware. The physical keyboard can't do that just by software.

actually a physical keyboard can do it with software, take a look, costs more than most computers but it works

http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/

i think we should make a clarification here, keyboard is what is found on typewriters, laptops and in front of computers

keypads are on phones

firewood

Jun 26, 2008, 06:04 PM

I would say 5 years you might have a straggler or two clinging on to the out-dated technology, but it is definitely on the way out.

Hah. That's very close to what they said about QWERTY keyboards over half a century ago. They've also been trying to sell one-hand chord keyboards for over a decade, and that's still pretty much a über-geek novelty.

benmrii

Jun 26, 2008, 08:51 PM

Hah. That's very close to what they said about QWERTY keyboards over half a century ago. They've also been trying to sell one-hand chord keyboards for over a decade, and that's still pretty much a über-geek novelty.

Honestly... I've never even heard of those until just now. I had to look them up. That's an interesting concept.

NorCalLights

Jun 26, 2008, 09:01 PM

Thats a bit of a stretch. The VAST majority still prefers a physical keyboard.

Hmm... I don't know about that...

It's probably true that a majority of people who have not tried the iPhone's keyboard prefer a physical keyboard... it's probably even true that a majority of people who have tried touch-screen keyboards on *other* (non iPhone) devices prefer a physical keyboard... but I don't know if a majority people who have actually tried (even for a brief time) the iPhone's keyboard actually prefer a physical keyboard. 5 minutes on an iPhone was plenty of time for me to drop my Treo and even cancel my contract with Verizon.

Also... where are you getting your statistics?

Digital Skunk

Jun 27, 2008, 12:15 AM

It's probably true that a majority of people who have not tried the iPhone's keyboard prefer a physical keyboard... it's probably even true that a majority of people who have tried touch-screen keyboards on *other* (non iPhone) devices prefer a physical keyboard... but I don't know if a majority people who have actually tried (even for a brief time) the iPhone's keyboard actually prefer a physical keyboard.

This actually may be the case. It's probably the other way around. Most people that have used the iPhone keyboard may prefer a physical one since the keys are just too small and there is no landscape option.

While a majority of people that have tried other touch screen keyboards have seen what options can be had with them, like landscape and XT9 and so forth, then start to really like the idea of a touch keyboard with options.

qwertydivit

Jun 27, 2008, 12:32 AM

That is what people don't understand. You learn to type based on position. Not tactile feedback. If that were the case then when using a normal keyboard you would always be hitting the side of the keys and have them slide into place, which is not how people use a keyboard.

Change out your normal keyboard on your computer with one that is slightly a different size. You will find yourself making a lot of typos until you adjust to where you place your fingers to type.

This is no different than using the iPhone. People way overrate the need to feel the keystroke to type accurately. It has almost nothing to do with accuracy.

That makes no sense. The tactile feedback does not tell you what key you hit, just that you hit a key. You would still need sight or muscle memory to know you hit the right key.

That is why the physical feedback is so over-rated.

I agree with you 1000%. After a month with my iPod Touch I could type nearly as fast as on my computer. Try doing that with your traditional smartphone. Because of that I use it for my entire digital life. Heck, I'm using it to type this review. 80% of iPhone users are "very satisfied" with their iPhones. This includes the virtual keyboard. The only people who complain about the iPhone's virtual keyboard are the noobs and those who don't own one. Almost everyone else fully embraces them.

Mr. Giver '94

Jun 27, 2008, 12:43 AM

I hate slide out physical keyboards. The iPhone is actually a breeze to type on once you get used to it.

The only thing I would add would be landscape typing in all applications, not just Safari. (especially great for texting) :):):):) That can be added by software, luckily. :):):D:D

firewood

Jun 27, 2008, 01:16 AM

Sounds like developers need to do some typing tutor apps or typing games for the iPhone.

My preference would actually be for Palm Graffiti 1 gesture text input, except with a finger tip instead of a stylus.

tritonj

Jun 27, 2008, 01:20 AM

I agree with you 1000%. After a month with my iPod Touch I could type nearly as fast as on my computer. Try doing that with your traditional smartphone. Because of that I use it for my entire digital life. Heck, I'm using it to type this review. 80% of iPhone users are "very satisfied" with their iPhones. This includes the virtual keyboard. The only people who complain about the iPhone's virtual keyboard are the noobs and those who don't own one. Almost everyone else fully embraces them.

i'm sure people with QWERTY keyboards are typing just as fast if not faster than you are on your virtual one, neither is better, it is a preference, and some people like to be able to type or dial numbers without looking at the phone even once, which is something you can't accomplish on any phone that uses only a touch screen, there is no point of reference for your fingers

example, you are driving and you reach for your phone and then feel for the buttons, people who make it a habit of talking in their cars can most likely find the keypad and dial the number they want because they feel around, now try doing that with a phone that has no keypad, you wouldn't even know where to start pressing.

i'm not endorsing dialing numbers driving or anything like that, but it is a fact that people do that and for those people no touch screen will work.

i've used both and i have no problems typing with either one, and i also don't think either is inferior to the other, it is simply a matter of different strokes for different folks, you buy things that fit your needs. doesn't make them noobs, doesn't make them 1337, makes them practical.

nima

Jun 27, 2008, 02:32 AM

i dont know about that one. sure touchscreens will continue to show up on phones, but i think the physical keyboards will still exist for quite a long time

mmmmmm i disagree

ins0mniaque

Jun 27, 2008, 03:41 AM

I hate 2 things about the touchscreen keyboard, but both could be corrected by software.

Cellphone keyboards have very small keys for people with big hands. I have no problem two-thumb typing in landscape mode, and if every application could rotate, this would be fixed for me. In portrait, my thumb covers easily 4 keys in a row, and depending on the angle of my thumb, contact isn't exactly at the same place each time. On the other hand, I could easily two-thumb type on my BB Charm, because when you type on a physical keyboard, you press with your thumb on a key, you can sense how centered you are by feeling the other unpressed keys around, immediately know if you pressed the wrong key, and correct yourself without even having to look. At least the visual/sound feedback on the iPhone is good, and the auto-correction is simply godly. But that brings me to the second problem.

You can't use the iPhone in two different languages easily. I sms half in english and half in french. When I type in french, I need to constantly cancel the auto-correction for each word, and if you forget, too bad, you get what it decided it was. If I could which to french directly on the keyboard, or at least temporarily turn off the auto-correction, happy I would be.

mark34

Jul 2, 2008, 10:33 AM

Earlier in this thread I said that I believe that, while a virtual keyboard is a smart compromise, I prefer "typing" on a physical keyboard and always will.

In anticipation of getting a 3G iPhone next week, I have been messing around with my iPod Touch more. Given that my Touch has been pretty much a phenomenal iPod and occasional web surfer, I have not had to type often. So I opened notes and typed away. I read some of the tricks, like double clicking space bar to add period and space at end of sentence.

I AM SOLD. This really works...there are some times when it will be more difficult, but I do believe that I can be faster on the iPhone quickly than I have been on Blackjack and Treo. The word finish feature is so consistently accurate it is amazing. This has been one of my biggest concerns in moving away from the BlackJack. Excellent!!