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MacRumors
Dec 10, 2003, 02:17 AM
AppleTurns (http://www.appleturns.com/scene/?id=4381) posted an interesting tidbit today...

The traditionally satirical site reports that they have a "strong feeling that a modestly-featured and modestly-priced new entry-level iPod is indeed in the offing", and seem to think that MacWorld Expo may be the launching point for the new iPod.

Steve Jobs has previously stated that they are constantly trying (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/10/20031019030926.shtml) to lower the cost of iPod and one unconfirmed rumor (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/11/20031125132729.shtml) pointed to a cheaper 5GB iPod to be released in November... but never came to be.


While AppleTurns denies being a rumor site, they do make the occasional foray into the rumor sandbox, and has been known to be correct (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030905235111.shtml) on occasion.

bobbyp80521
Dec 10, 2003, 02:23 AM
that would be nice, i would like to see reduced prices rather than an entry level

Superdrive
Dec 10, 2003, 02:28 AM
How about bigger and cheaper??

Trowaman
Dec 10, 2003, 02:28 AM
YES! IF I don't get one for X-mas . . . . iPods = good

sethypoo
Dec 10, 2003, 02:38 AM
Originally posted by Superdrive
How about bigger and cheaper??

In a perfect world, in a perfect world.

Tuttle
Dec 10, 2003, 02:38 AM
Everyone I know/meet wants an iPod.

Everyone I know/meet knows what an iPod is.

People are always stopping me to take a look at my iPod.

I think my dual G5 is getting jealous.

I have a new 10 gig iPod and I have never filled the thing up. I could easily get by with only 5 gig since setting up playlists in iTunes so easy and downloading is so fast with the Firewire connection.

I think the tremendous brand awareness Apple has with the iPod can overcome the race for bigger internal drives that the other players use for differentiation.

Phillip
Dec 10, 2003, 03:12 AM
can't wait

freddiecable
Dec 10, 2003, 03:27 AM
5 GB iPod for 199 or even 149 USD :)

but i don't think the difference between 10 GB and 5 GB would justify a 150 USD price difference. But, 199 would be realistic...

MacDuff
Dec 10, 2003, 03:28 AM
New 10 gig iPod in January = $199

Is that too much of a stretch?

hokka
Dec 10, 2003, 03:30 AM
AppleTurns is right about this:

"Let's face it, most of the people willing to shell out at least $299 for a portable music player probably already have one..."

yep! I already have a 40GB iPod, but for me to fork out more for presents would kill me ;) If this is true - pretty much inevitable when the "elite" market's been satuated - they will need to move down and try to fight the Flash-based players out there - I could see companies such as Creative going out of business when this happens...

iwantanewmac
Dec 10, 2003, 03:36 AM
Originally posted by Tuttle
Everyone I know/meet wants an iPod.

Everyone I know/meet knows what an iPod is.

People are always stopping me to take a look at my iPod.

I think my dual G5 is getting jealous.

I have a new 10 gig iPod and I have never filled the thing up. I could easily get by with only 5 gig since setting up playlists in iTunes so easy and downloading is so fast with the Firewire connection.

Sorry for my question, but what the heck has the ease of use of itunes and the fast FW connection to do with the size of the ipod?
you mean because its fast yo umean yo uneed less space???????? uh
My 30 gig is almost full...... Not that Im getting a bigger 1 but....

Toby O Notoby
Dec 10, 2003, 03:51 AM
Exec #1: Hey, let's build a cheaper version of the iPod, we could probably sell millions of them as Christmas presents!

Exec #2: Brilliant! When should we release them?

Exec #3: I was thinking sometime in January.

Tuttle
Dec 10, 2003, 03:55 AM
Originally posted by iwantanewmac
Sorry for my question, but what the heck has the ease of use of itunes and the fast FW connection to do with the size of the ipod?
you mean because its fast yo umean yo uneed less space???????? uh
My 30 gig is almost full...... Not that Im getting a bigger 1 but....

Do you listen to 30 gig of music everyday? Does anyone?

Sounds like you just dump your entire collection of music to your iPod like I used to.

I have a iPod specific smart playlist that I occasionally change/update for stuff I actually listen to on my iPod. I was worried when I ordered my iPod that the ten gig model was going to be too small until I learned how to properly use iTunes.

A lot of the bigger drive is better mentality comes from the peecee world where people have to use their incredibly slow USB connection to download their music and need a player as big as their entire library to avoid having to wait for for such a slow process.

alset
Dec 10, 2003, 03:55 AM
I read AppleTurns religiously. AppleTurns has been my daily does for four years (even when they failed to update for moths at a time). I love them to death, but I'd have to say that this story is blown FAR out of proportion. They don't site any source (other than a failed MR report). It's speculation.

Anyone who gives this any credit isn't using their head.

Dan

edit: As for storage space, I have 35 GB of tunes in my library and I want to access them all at any time. Maybe you aren't picky, but if I don't have an album on my iPod I can guarantee that I will want to play it.

CmdrLaForge
Dec 10, 2003, 04:03 AM
A cheaper iPod would really be great. If the price comes down to $150 I could really justify the purchase.

I really love this little toy.

Trimix
Dec 10, 2003, 04:13 AM
I am not sure what the fascination would be on the lower end.
I have moved 836 songs from CD to my i-mac, that is 5.05 gig.
This represents the songs i like on 1/3 of my CD collection. Which means at this rate I would need at least 15gig.
There is probably a song or two a week I discover, and enjoy enough to keep. If I wish my song collection with me I feel even 35 or 40 gig wont cut it.
It has nothing to do with size, but all with convenience. If it comes down to it, we are all hunters and gatherers, the i-pod satisfies this neanderthal instinct :)

iwantanewmac
Dec 10, 2003, 04:29 AM
Originally posted by Tuttle
Do you listen to 30 gig of music everyday? Does anyone?

Sounds like you just dump your entire collection of music to your iPod like I used to.


Actually yes.
I do want to carry most of my music with me. I don't want to go thru the hassle of making special playlists etc. etc.
I don't have a lot of time so.
The more the better.

arn
Dec 10, 2003, 04:45 AM
Originally posted by alset
I read AppleTurns religiously. AppleTurns has been my daily does for four years (even when they failed to update for moths at a time). I love them to death, but I'd have to say that this story is blown FAR out of proportion. They don't site any source (other than a failed MR report). It's speculation.

Anyone who gives this any credit isn't using their head.


You gotta read between the lines. ;)

arn

MattG
Dec 10, 2003, 05:09 AM
This would be great. There are several people who I've shown my iPod to who would love to get one, but can't fathom spending $300+ on one.

A < $200 iPod would be a good thing.

Vroem
Dec 10, 2003, 05:35 AM
Which of the iPod's competitors are actually real hard disks (mass storage devices)? I know that you can even boot Mac OS from an iPod, but is that passible with other MP3 players?

Creative says that apple is lying about having the first "hard drive music player" but their own player is NOT a hard drive!

rdowns
Dec 10, 2003, 05:40 AM
I'm holding out upgrading my iPod until they put a G5 in it. I also read a dual G5 is possible.

mechamac
Dec 10, 2003, 06:06 AM
While AT rarely dips into rumor mongering territory, I can't think of a time in recent years when they were wrong - when conflicting rumor reports fly the AT spin has always been correct.

Very, VERY, interesting.

Maybe I'll be getting my first iPod soon...

TomSmithMacEd
Dec 10, 2003, 06:35 AM
Originally posted by Toby O Notoby
Exec #1: Hey, let's build a cheaper version of the iPod, we could probably sell millions of them as Christmas presents!

Exec #2: Brilliant! When should we release them?

Exec #3: I was thinking sometime in January.

Yeah, my parents won't get me one because they think they are too exensive:( . But I don't know if 5gb would be big enough for me seeming my music collection is at 7gb+ and growing rapidly, but beggers cannot be choosers I guess.

orion123
Dec 10, 2003, 06:49 AM
When AtAT posts a rumor in the way that they did: "strong feeling" etc. you know that something is up. They post about two "self-started" rumors per year and I can't remember when they were wrong.

They must have a real high-up trusted source in Apple who they treat well and don't risk his/her job like the other rumors sites often do.

the_mole1314
Dec 10, 2003, 07:25 AM
What have I been saying, eh? I believe that it's late and last time I talked to my source he said around Turky Day. Oh well, can't wait for this new 'pod to come out!

uv23
Dec 10, 2003, 07:56 AM
As its stands, iPods have way too high an entry price point. Personally, $300-350CDN is my entry price point. $440CDN is too much. A lot of people are in the same boat as me: the iPod is a fun toy that would be nice to have (especially since I'm now officially a Mac user after a recent switch), but we're not going to pay out the ass for one.

ITR 81
Dec 10, 2003, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by TomSmithMacEd
Yeah, my parents won't get me one because they think they are too exensive:( . But I don't know if 5gb would be big enough for me seeming my music collection is at 7gb+ and growing rapidly, but beggers cannot be choosers I guess.

Get a 10GB refurb from Apple or smalldog.com

I myself use a 40GB which was major bucks but I've already put my entire ripped CD collection on there and thats almost 11gigs now. Need the extra space for some more CD's and online music I intend buy in Jan. and Feb. It also allows me to store some data on it as well.

I believe a 5GB will cure people of the cheaper flash MP3 players.

Also if this rumor holds true then I only need 3 more to have be 100% accurate on my predictions.

ITR 81
Dec 10, 2003, 08:01 AM
This is Apples second coming.

This is alot like 1984 again when everyone and their mother wanted a Mac.

macMaestro
Dec 10, 2003, 08:16 AM
GO AtAT!!!

:D

1macker1
Dec 10, 2003, 08:18 AM
You are right, no one has time to listen to 30G's of music in a day, the number dont make it possible.
Originally posted by Tuttle
Do you listen to 30 gig of music everyday? Does anyone?

Sounds like you just dump your entire collection of music to your iPod like I used to.

I have a iPod specific smart playlist that I occasionally change/update for stuff I actually listen to on my iPod. I was worried when I ordered my iPod that the ten gig model was going to be too small until I learned how to properly use iTunes.

A lot of the bigger drive is better mentality comes from the peecee world where people have to use their incredibly slow USB connection to download their music and need a player as big as their entire library to avoid having to wait for for such a slow process.

SiliconAddict
Dec 10, 2003, 08:19 AM
Don't make a liar out of me Apple.

I've successfully convinced a hand full of people in the office I work NOT to get a Dell Jukeboxes and wait for January because of the possibility for a 5GB iPod. If this is true it's going to be huge but in reality this should have been done this summer. Apple was/is just being greedy. There hasn't been any massive change in tech that just now allowed the iPod to drop in price.
I'm going to be interested in the long run when Dell/Toshiba and the like all introduce 20GB Jukeboxes in the $250 range. It isn't going to happen for a bit but the 20GB model is already at $299 which already undercuts Apple. Apple better pull something out of their hat in January and it better be more then a $199 iPod.

the_mole1314
Dec 10, 2003, 08:26 AM
While I'll never have 20gigs of music, I use my 'pod a lot for back-up and as an external hard drive.

mkaake
Dec 10, 2003, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by rdowns
I'm holding out upgrading my iPod until they put a G5 in it. I also read a dual G5 is possible.

you are soooo *insert comment from person with no sense of humor here*- there's no way they'd be able to fit the heat sinks on that thing!

matt

jayscheuerle
Dec 10, 2003, 08:43 AM
Making a sub $300 (US) iPod will completely ruin the cachet of being seen with one of these babies. Apple better make them look different and obviously cheaper to distinguish them from the beautiful luxury-class walkman we know and love.

Why should Apple stoop to compete with the likes of Dell?

This is a sad, sad day...


:cool:

- For those a little slow on the uptake, this is not meant to be taken seriously.
:rolleyes:

mechamac
Dec 10, 2003, 08:45 AM
Now that we're all certain a budget iPod is a set-in-stone lock, time to conjure up some specs that we can all convince ourselves of!

Isn't it true that there's really no difference between the cost of manufacturing/selling 5GB iPods vs 10GB models? So would an "ePod" be cheap because of a simpler mobo - no PDA functions, just a tiny box that plays music?

dongmin
Dec 10, 2003, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by Toby O Notoby
Exec #1: Hey, let's build a cheaper version of the iPod, we could probably sell millions of them as Christmas presents!

Exec #2: Brilliant! When should we release them?

Exec #3: I was thinking sometime in January. yeah this is the only point that makes me question AtAT speculation. What's the point of releasing an 'entry level' product after the biggest shopping season in the year? People who're in the market for a cheap mp3 player will get one this Xmas, whether it's a Dell DJ or a flash-media-based player. Makes zero sense to me.

The only reasons I can think of is that 1) they're waiting to add more functionality into the higher-end iPods or 2) component prices won't come down much until after this year.

Can Apple really hit the $199 price point (which seems to be a magic number for a lot of people) and still make some sort of a profit? It'd be a pretty radical move on Apple's part. My guesses:

$199 5GB
$249 10GB
$349 20GB
$449 40GB

Too conservative, do you think?

mechamac
Dec 10, 2003, 08:58 AM
But if current iPods are selling well already, no need to introduce cheaper models for Xmas.

There IS a need to head off the glut of cheaper knockoffs & flash players out there. Apple would be very wise to stick a toe in the low end sooner than later....especially with the Pepsi promotion due in a few months. Imagine winning a song, then finding out the awesome player that works with it is only as much as a Playstation 2....it's like some kind of marketing synergy or something.

Apple actively going after markets...competing on price....it almost boggles the mind....

uv23
Dec 10, 2003, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Making a sub $300 (US) iPod will completely ruin the cachet of being seen with one of these babies. Apple better make them look different and obviously cheaper to distinguish them from the beautiful luxury-class walkman we know and love.

That's the most pompous thing I've read all day.

jayscheuerle
Dec 10, 2003, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by uv23
That's the most pompous thing I've read all day.

I prefer the term facetious. ;)

g4pismo
Dec 10, 2003, 09:39 AM
I could care less about market trends and price wars with dells and such... I just know that this would be the price point that a lot of folks (read me, my brother, wife, etc) have been waiting for. I have wanted an ipod from the beginning, but my funds are tied up in the G5 fund. This is (would be) an easy to justify price. I think it would be a great move... It's not 'stooping', rather paying attention to the not so l33t Macintosh consumers. I want to sell the idea of the ipods to my co workers, but they are more into price to perceived punch... As Mac folks, we can preach the joys of Mac till we are blue in the face, but if dell under cuts apple, even by a few dollars, the PC camp reverts back to the "see... I told you mac was expensive" comments... Forget the fact that the other guys product is usually crap... anyway...just my .02

ITR 81
Dec 10, 2003, 09:48 AM
I'm sure if Apple introduces a lowend model it will probably be a Gen 3 iPod with a 5GB HD while the rest of the line goes Gen 4 with bigger HD's and better batteries with more features.

If the ePod sells well which it will probably do they will probably release a 2GB and 10GB version as well. Because by then the prosumer iPods will be in the 20-40-60GB iPod range if not slightly higher.

I could see the pricing on the ePods being:
$149 = 2GB
$199 = 5GB
$249 = 10GB

Then for the pro line:
$299 = 20GB
$399 = 40GB
$499 = 60GB
and if they make one
$599 = 80GB
$749 = vPod combines 80GB iPod with colour screen and video playback and input and output ports for camcorders.

This is only my opinion so no one get up tight about this.

g4pismo
Dec 10, 2003, 09:55 AM
i would be all on top of a vPod :-).. course their goes the G5 fund

jholzner
Dec 10, 2003, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by alset
I read AppleTurns religiously. AppleTurns has been my daily does for four years (even when they failed to update for moths at a time). I love them to death, but I'd have to say that this story is blown FAR out of proportion. They don't site any source (other than a failed MR report). It's speculation.

Anyone who gives this any credit isn't using their head.

Dan

edit: As for storage space, I have 35 GB of tunes in my library and I want to access them all at any time. Maybe you aren't picky, but if I don't have an album on my iPod I can guarantee that I will want to play it.

I think you might want to look at their track record. Nearly ever rumor they have posted has come true! I know they rarely post rumors but they are spot on when they do. Also, thye always post them in this fashion. No sources just what is going to happen. My money is that they are right. They only post rumors when they know them to be true and they also give the disclaimer that they dont' know nothin' but they have a reliable source somewhere that comes through for them once in a while.

shen
Dec 10, 2003, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by dongmin
yeah this is the only point that makes me question AtAT speculation. What's the point of releasing an 'entry level' product after the biggest shopping season in the year? People who're in the market for a cheap mp3 player will get one this Xmas, whether it's a Dell DJ or a flash-media-based player. Makes zero sense to me.

The only reasons I can think of is that 1) they're waiting to add more functionality into the higher-end iPods or 2) component prices won't come down much until after this year.

well, what iTunes marketing will be coming out soon? pepsi? is McDonalds still a question?

how many free songs are they giving away?

now if they have a 5 gig model with no backlight or maybe no PDA functions, or other things to differentiate it and make it an "ePod," how much can they bring it in at? cheap enough that someone who didn't get a player for the holidays who now has some free songs might think, "hey i can get one of those $500 Ipod things for how much? the down side is less music? i don't have much anyway...."

and if you buy a 5 gig, and a few free songs, and then hey, ITMS is easy and you don't want that whole album anyway, so why not a few songs, and a year later you have spent $300 on ITMS and it is about time to get a new iPod now (i can give my brother the old one, right? he will be so happy!) anyway, and wow look what the new one does! maybe i need a laptop to go with that, cause i never noticed before but OSX is pretty slick and windows still doesn't work and they haven't even updated XP yet, and.....

more than a few people have become Mac zealots by similar routes.

SiliconAddict
Dec 10, 2003, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle

Why should Apple stoop to compete with the likes of Dell?


To survive. If Apple stays in the upper crust of the digital music players they are going to end up with 5% of the market just like they are dealing with in the computer market. Apple will become marginalized if they play this game.

PS - and for those who say Apple has done just fine up to now. Consider the fact that up until now Apple has had no competition in the HD music player market. Its Dell/Toshiba where the competition is now coming from. January we will see how well Apple has successfully fended off their devices.

~Shard~
Dec 10, 2003, 10:46 AM
iPods are going to be hot sellers this Xmas, so why wouldn't Apple release these less expensive ones now, to increase sales even more? Or do they just want to soak the public for lots of money now, and then after Xmas, lower the price? That's business I guess...

To me, it makes sense to make a price cut and annoucement like this during the Xmas season when people are actually buying these things, and not at the beginning of January. Who is going to be buying iPods in January who didn't buy one for Christmas?

I think a price reduction would be great, but I question the timing.

ddbean
Dec 10, 2003, 10:55 AM
I'm guessing it will have a tie in with Pepsi ITMS giveaway, like 5 Gig for $199, but Pepsi-Blue in color or white with the pepsi logo on circle control wheel.

Edited:
And of course you'd get 30 free ITMS downloads with every purchase and a 6-pack of Pepsi.

macMaestro
Dec 10, 2003, 11:04 AM
The rumor in it's original form:

So if Apple's going to compete, it probably is going to have to figure out a way to sell at least some iPods at a much lower price. MacRumors recently reported on unconfirmed rumors that a "low-end/cheaper 5 GB iPod" might appear "as early as the November 28th, 2003 In-Store Apple event." Of course, that didn't come to pass... but we've got a strong feeling that a modestly-featured and modestly-priced new entry-level iPod is indeed in the offing. Furthermore, we've got a strong feeling that Apple doesn't want to introduce it until after the holiday buying season, since existing iPods are already selling like disposable razors at the annual Covert Werewolves convention and it'd be just plain dumb to sabotage high-margin sales by shipping a lower-cost option now. But if there's some sort of largish Apple-related trade show or something taking place shortly after the holidays, we've got a strong feeling that it might be a good venue at which to unveil this conjectured low-cost wonder.


Disclaimer: we also had a strong feeling that Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever would be box office gold, so don't hold us to anything.

mrsebastian
Dec 10, 2003, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by ~Shard~
iPods are going to be hot sellers this Xmas, so why wouldn't Apple release these less expensive ones now, to increase sales even more? Or do they just want to soak the public for lots of money now, and then after Xmas, lower the price? That's business I guess...

if this rumor is true, then i think you hit it right on the head. apple essentially has a captive audience with holiday shoppers and why undercut the more expensive models? i would assume as part of the hype that pepsi will bring, it would be even greater if they introduced a cheaper 5g ipod, just to make everyone go bananas and go buy an ipod.

Analog Kid
Dec 10, 2003, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by mkaake
there's no way they'd be able to fit the heat sinks on that thing!

I hear Apple is researching liquid cooling.

geerlingguy
Dec 10, 2003, 11:24 AM
Show me a 5GB iPod for $99 and I'll buy it today!

I would love to have it just as a portable hard drive for large graphics files and DV clips < 1 hour, if nothing else. I don't need it to play MP3s, but that would be nice!

Analog Kid
Dec 10, 2003, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by ddbean
I'm guessing it will have a tie in with Pepsi ITMS giveaway, like 5 Gig for $199, but Pepsi-Blue in color or white with the pepsi logo on circle control wheel.


Now there's an interesting idea...

dongmin
Dec 10, 2003, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by shen
and if you buy a 5 gig, and a few free songs, and then hey, ITMS is easy and you don't want that whole album anyway, so why not a few songs, and a year later you have spent $300 on ITMS and it is about time to get a new iPod now (i can give my brother the old one, right? he will be so happy!) It's open knowledge that Apple doesn't make any money off the iTMS--its purpose is to drive iPod sales which I assume has a pretty sweet margin.

Now, if buying a cheapie iPod gets consumers locked into this vertical market and consumers graduate into buying higher- and higher-margin products, I can see some argument for cheap iPods as a loss leader.

I am skeptical of the argument that PC iPod users end up switching. That's just wishful thinking, as far as I'm concerned, until someone can show me some credible market data. There are lot more issues involved in getting a PC.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a cheap iPods. But I'm also concerned about Apple making money. Apple shouldn't go for market share just for the sake of market share. It's not like Apple has to attract developers to the iPod. It's just one product, and it's just a bloody music player--it has less functionality than my Sony-Ericsson phone.

jayscheuerle
Dec 10, 2003, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by dongmin
But I'm also concerned about Apple making money.

As I'm sure they are about you making money! :eek:

Apple makes TONS of money and has the largest profit-margin in the business. They don't need worry, they need users if they want developers to make software for their platform. Be concerned for developers making money, because if they don't, they'll ditch their Apple efforts before anything else.

kryten2000
Dec 10, 2003, 12:15 PM
I think a 5 gig would be too small. Most Peoples collection are much more than 5 gig. I say keep the 10 gig as the lowest capacity and drop the price to a even$200 and throw in a dock so
you dont have to shell another $40.

Awimoway
Dec 10, 2003, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Don't make a liar out of me Apple.

I've successfully convinced a hand full of people in the office I work NOT to get a Dell Jukeboxes and wait for January because of the possibility for a 5GB iPod. If this is true it's going to be huge but in reality this should have been done this summer. Apple was/is just being greedy. There hasn't been any massive change in tech that just now allowed the iPod to drop in price.

Yeah, Apple's pricing is messed up sometimes. They left a lot of vendors with 30 GB iPods in stock when they upped the line to 40 GB and dumped the 30s. Even now, you can get a brand new 30 GB iPod from Amazon for the same price you can get a 20 GB iPod from Apple.com.

I was running out of space on my 10 GB iPod. All I really needed was a 20 GB, but do you think that I'm going to waste the oppurtunity to pick up an additional 10 GB for free? So now I've got an extra hard drive...

Gymnut
Dec 10, 2003, 12:19 PM
5GB as the entry level sounds about right. It'd be nice to have it so at $149.99 but I highly doubt that. It'd most likely be priced at $199.99 while the current line up's prices remain unchanged. To those complaining about 5GB being too small, go put in a few hours of overtime and opt for a larger model then.

ddbean
Dec 10, 2003, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by Gymnut
... To those complaining about 5GB being too small, go put in a few hours of overtime and opt for a larger model then.

Or take a few minutes and make your own playlist instead of dumping your whole library.

Tuttle
Dec 10, 2003, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by ddbean
Or take a few minutes and make your own playlist instead of dumping your whole library.

Yeah, it's pretty clear that there are a lot of people who don't know how to make smart playlists and are simply dumping everything to their iPod.

Perhaps Apple should default iTunes to some generic Rock/Pop type smart playlist so people clue in to how to use iTunes and their iPod together.

hexcalibur
Dec 10, 2003, 12:40 PM
I agree with previous posters that AtAT rarely initiates rumors and when they do they tend to be on the money.

We'll have to believe that the people in Apple Marketing crunched numbers that said it wasn't worth cannibalizing 10G ipod sales during the Christmas season with a cheaper model. A $199 5G model in the New Year doesn't seem that far-fetched to me.

And finally, there's the kick off of the Pepsi promotion, sure, but what if there's a brewing McDonald's promotion in the works too? A relatively cheap ipod for the masses at the same time as a massive McDonald's promotion? Would that not drive ipod sales and mac mindshare through the roof?

(Gotta wonder about the integrity of a vegan doing a marketing deal with McD's, but business is business, I guess.)

Awimoway
Dec 10, 2003, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Tuttle
Yeah, it's pretty clear that there are a lot of people who don't know how to make smart playlists and are simply dumping everything to their iPod.

It's also pretty clear that some people think they way THEY use their iPods is the way everyone should. :rolleyes:

I keep my whole library on because I can't predict what occasion or mood or just odd craving for a particular song/album/artist will crop up that day, while I am away from my computer.

SiliconAddict
Dec 10, 2003, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by kryten2000
I think a 5 gig would be too small. Most Peoples collection are much more than 5 gig. I say keep the 10 gig as the lowest capacity and drop the price to a even$200 and throw in a dock so
you dont have to shell another $40.

People need to think beyond collections. Not everyone cares about having all of their music with them. If you can get 6-8 hours that is enough for many people.

pjkelnhofer
Dec 10, 2003, 12:56 PM
I know my fiancee wanted to get me an iPod for Christmas, but they remain a little out of our price range. So a smaller version and our a price drop on current models would have been perfect if it had come before December.
If Apple annouces cheaper iPods in January, I would assume they wanted to have them ready to ship for Christmas, but just could make it. No one wants a note under the tree saying your 5GB iPod is on the assembly in China you should have it in four to six weeks.
Maybe they will be announced in January, but not ready to ship for several weeks (I have been under the impression that Apple announcing something doesn't mean you can walk into your local Apple Store and get it that day necessarily).
On the other hand, maybe they are waiting for the Super Bowl and the Pepsi/McDonald's promotions to begin.
I guess we will just have to wait to find out.

winmacguy
Dec 10, 2003, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by uv23
That's the most pompous thing I've read all day.
He was joking!

achmafooma
Dec 10, 2003, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Awimoway
It's also pretty clear that some people think they way THEY use their iPods is the way everyone should. :rolleyes:

I keep my whole library on because I can't predict what occasion or mood or just odd craving for a particular song/album/artist will crop up that day, while I am away from my computer.
Bingo. I don't have an iPod yet (it's on my list for next summer). When I do get one, one of my requirements is that it fit my whole collection with lots of room to spare (about 9gb at this time, and growing regularly).

I'm unpredictable when it comes to music. I could be listening to a Pink Floyd album, and then suddenly decide part-way through that I really want to hear "This is Where I Came In" by the Bee Gees or "Kim" by Eminem.

For example ;-)

And I never know which song or style I'll crave at any given moment. Part of the purpose of an iPod for me would be to have my entire music collection with me at all times.

But I certainly am not saying this is the only way to do it. Some people like the "playlist method," more power to 'em! But there are certainly people who prefer the "entire collection method" as well :-)

winmacguy
Dec 10, 2003, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by g4pismo
I could care less about market trends and price wars with dells and such... I just know that this would be the price point that a lot of folks (read me, my brother, wife, etc) have been waiting for. I have wanted an ipod from the beginning, but my funds are tied up in the G5 fund. This is (would be) an easy to justify price. I think it would be a great move... It's not 'stooping', rather paying attention to the not so l33t Macintosh consumers. I want to sell the idea of the ipods to my co workers, but they are more into price to perceived punch... As Mac folks, we can preach the joys of Mac till we are blue in the face, but if dell under cuts apple, even by a few dollars, the PC camp reverts back to the "see... I told you mac was expensive" comments... Forget the fact that the other guys product is usually crap... anyway...just my .02

Good point, I think Apple would blow the opposition out of the water with a 5GB iPod. I could even afford to get one for $400 NZ dollars- US $1 = NZ $ 1.90 or there abouts

leet1
Dec 10, 2003, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by winmacguy
Good point, I think Apple would blow the opposition out of the water with a 5GB iPod.

I dont think they would blow anyone out of the water, lol. There are already 5 gig mp3 players out there for around $200

winmacguy
Dec 10, 2003, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by kryten2000
I think a 5 gig would be too small. Most Peoples collection are much more than 5 gig. I say keep the 10 gig as the lowest capacity and drop the price to a even$200 and throw in a dock so
you dont have to shell another $40.

I would have to disagree with that statement, I am not "most People" but i do have a pretty good music collection which is 3+ gigs on my HD and a 5GB ipod would be ideal to capture the entry level end of the market. I know quite a lot of people who only own maybe 20 or less CDs which is probably because they enjoy their music as a passing interest.

winmacguy
Dec 10, 2003, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by leet1
I dont think they would blow anyone out of the water, lol. There are already 5 gig mp3 players out there for around $200

Quality product and good marketing = great sales.

leet1
Dec 10, 2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by winmacguy
Quality product and good marketing = great sales.

Cheeper price at the best buy display > everything you just said. lol

pjkelnhofer
Dec 10, 2003, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by leet1
I dont think they would blow anyone out of the water, lol. There are already 5 gig mp3 players out there for around $200
But would it for $100 or $150?

leet1
Dec 10, 2003, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
But would it for $100 or $150?

Oh hell yes.

winmacguy
Dec 10, 2003, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by leet1
Cheeper price at the best buy display > everything you just said. lol
That works to for a different portion of the PC market
(Lexus vs Toyota)
Either way Apple wins because they extend their customer base which is the whole plan behind the iTunes iPod combo

jayscheuerle
Dec 10, 2003, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by kryten2000
I think a 5 gig would be too small. Most Peoples collection are much more than 5 gig. I say keep the 10 gig as the lowest capacity and drop the price to a even$200 and throw in a dock so
you dont have to shell another $40.

I've got 35 gigs of mp3s (95% from my own CDs) and 5 gigs would be perfect for me. If I go on an hour walk or a 3 hour drive or whatever, I'd just grab my favorite mix sets and go, probably never searching for a song once it starts playing, just set the mood and cruise...

cypher
Dec 10, 2003, 03:05 PM
so when is this MWSF???

Gymnut
Dec 10, 2003, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by leet1
I dont think they would blow anyone out of the water, lol. There are already 5 gig mp3 players out there for around $200

Well name an MP3 player that has the simplicity, design, and an integration that that iPod has.

leet1
Dec 10, 2003, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by Gymnut
Well name an MP3 player that has the simplicity, design, and an integration that that iPod has.

Why? lol Most of the ones I saw were comparable in size and I'm willing to bet they weren't too complicated to use, heh.

looked like they usually supported mp3/wma

zach
Dec 10, 2003, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by cypher
so when is this MWSF???

That WAS intended to be a joke, right?

:D

It's January 6-9. I assume the keynote's the 6th, but ya never know.

zach
Dec 10, 2003, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by leet1
Why? lol Most of the ones I saw were comparable in size and I'm willing to bet they weren't too complicated to use, heh.

looked like they usually supported mp3/wma

Seems like you forgot the design....

Actually, do this for me. Find me any mp3 player at ANY cost that is designed as well as the iPod.

By design I don't mean a "cool wheel clicker thing", I mean good case design, over all.

I doubt you can. THIS is why the iPod sells so well, not price, nor capacity, nor compatability. People want the hip, cool product, and right now, the iPod is that.

leet1
Dec 10, 2003, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by zap23
Seems like you forgot the design....

Im sorry, I thought people kept these things in their pocket like I do with my little rio when walking/running/working out with them, lol.

1macker1
Dec 10, 2003, 03:22 PM
It seems as if apple would want to get the people **like me** who only has about 2G's of music. A 5G ipod would be great. As my collection grows, i would eventually graduate to the 10G ipod. But for right now, 10G ipod for 200 mp3's is overkill. I should be able to choose the appropiate player as my music collection grow.

~Shard~
Dec 10, 2003, 03:27 PM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by zap23
Seems like you forgot the design....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by leet1
Im sorry, I thought people kept these things in their pocket like I do with my little rio when walking/running/working out with them, lol.

So you're saying design doesn't matter? Okay, I guess Apple should just design an iPod with the exact same functionality, capacity, etc., however make it square with jagged edges, neon orange LEDs, a squeaky trackwheel and a nice checkered purple, brown, and puke green color scheme with scratches all over the case. Yah, that would sell just as well since no one cares about the design like you said. :rolleyes:

leet1
Dec 10, 2003, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by ~Shard~
Yah, that would sell just as well since no one cares about the design like you said. :rolleyes:

They all look like damn rectangles, lol. Whats the Ipod have other the others I saw? Its a rounded off rectangle...lol.

Ive seen the iPod in person....there is no design to a freaking rectangle lol

Wash!!
Dec 10, 2003, 03:35 PM
A very boring life if you can not appreciate good design when you see it...:rolleyes:

leet1
Dec 10, 2003, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by Wash!!
A very boring life if you can not appreciate good design when you see it...:rolleyes:

Good design in this case is an opinion

Yours, not mine. :p

Its nothing great to look at in my eyes. Hince why it would go into my pocket.

aasmund
Dec 10, 2003, 03:39 PM
I'd guess: a usb drive device, with 512 mb, small form factor, bus chargeable battery and called the minipod. Price $150-200.

SiliconAddict
Dec 10, 2003, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by winmacguy
Quality product and good marketing = great sales.

Yep and that's why Apple is leader in computer sales....wait....sorry. My bad. :p

Gymnut
Dec 10, 2003, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by leet1
Why? lol Most of the ones I saw were comparable in size and I'm willing to bet they weren't too complicated to use, heh.

looked like they usually supported mp3/wma

How bout identifying the "ones I saw" and I'm guessing you somehow acquired the ability to somehow know the ease of use of a product without even using one yourself. Fantastic!

leet1
Dec 10, 2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by Gymnut
I'm guessing you somehow acquired the ability to somehow know the ease of use of a product without even using one yourself. Fantastic!

I said im willing to bet...how hard can it be to use an mp3 player? lol

shen
Dec 10, 2003, 04:02 PM
i must be missing the point of the 5 gig limit. i have 5.6 gigs of music. gee i would have a hard time choosing which .6 to leave behind on any given dock......

is it a lot to assume that some iPod sales lead to Mac sales? maybe, but i bought my iBook because of the iPod, and i am now a dedicated fan of the company. take with salt, YMMV, whatever.

and leet1, i wouldn't have bought it if it weren't well designed. from the OS, to ease of use to simplicity, all these are part of design. "how it looks" is just an end result of good design. the iPod is good design. get over it.

leet1
Dec 10, 2003, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by shen
get over it.

get over what? lol

narco
Dec 10, 2003, 04:05 PM
Kind of sucks for all the people who buy brand new iPods for Christmas. A month later they will be cheaper and possible be larger in capacity.

pjkelnhofer
Dec 10, 2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by narco
Kind of sucks for all the people who buy brand new iPods for Christmas. A month later they will be cheaper and possible be larger in capacity.

I have only been reading these forums for about three months, but this seems to be the most common thought.
Is there ever a time you can buy any piece of computer equipment (Mac or PC) and not see something better for less money shortly thereafter?
That is technology!

narco
Dec 10, 2003, 04:15 PM
I'm not complaining, that's why the subject is "That's Business". Especially in the IT business.

I bought a 15gig iPod a week and a half before they released the 20 gig at the same price. Sucks, yeah, but I'm still happy with my iPod.

ITR 81
Dec 10, 2003, 04:30 PM
leet1 you really are bordering on being a troll here.

First iPods have out sold every HD based MP3 player on the market. Right now our local CompUSA is selling iPods 30 to 2 against Dell, Samsung and Rio.
When folks come into stores they don't ask for a Dell or whatever they as for an iPod because it's what the market wants now.

Reason for low cost iPod after Christmas is the marketing campaign with Pepis and also the fact analyst's have said 04' will be the yr of the HD based MP3 player.

SiliconAddict
Dec 10, 2003, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by Gymnut
Well name an MP3 player that has the simplicity, design, and an integration that that iPod has.

Name me a person that doesn't like saving $50 to $100. :p

leet1
Dec 10, 2003, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by ITR 81
leet1 you really are bordering on being a troll here.

First iPods have out sold every HD based MP3 player on the market. Right now our local CompUSA is selling iPods 30 to 2 against Dell, Samsung and Rio.
When folks come into stores they don't ask for a Dell or whatever they as for an iPod because it's what the market wants now..

Actually what the market wants right now is still flash-based players.....since they are selling more....

Anyways... I was just stating what I thought. Nothing troll about that :rolleyes:

SiliconAddict
Dec 10, 2003, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by ITR 81
Right now our local CompUSA is selling iPods 30 to 2 against Dell, Samsung and Rio.

That's a amazing considering Dell doesn't do direct sales at retail chains.

ddbean
Dec 10, 2003, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by leet1
...flash-based players.....since they are selling more....



Where are you getting your facts?

leet1
Dec 10, 2003, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by ddbean
Where are you getting your facts?


Was said on here by someone, not sure who. Maybe they will read this and back it up :D

captain kirk
Dec 10, 2003, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by leet1
Was said on here by someone, not sure who. Maybe they will read this and back it up :D

It wast not said on here. What was said is that the ipod is the biggest selling hard drive based mp3 player. That doesn't necessarily mean it's not the biggest selling even including flash based.

Even if flash based players do sell slightly more than ipod you cannot compare products priced at $299-$499 with products being sold for as little as $50.

Whats important here is that the ipod is the best designed mp3 player you can buy and the fact that even at maybe 5 times the price of flash based players still sells around the same number.

NOW CAN YOU PLEASE START TALKING SOME SENSE!!!!

leet1
Dec 10, 2003, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by captain kirk
It wast not said on here.


What the hell, lol Im not lying :rolleyes: It was said on here, otherwise I wouldn't have said it.

Whats important here is that the ipod is the best designed mp3 player you can buy and the fact that even at maybe 5 times the price of flash based players still sells around the same number.

Its the best designed mp3 player "for some"not all people.

captain kirk
Dec 10, 2003, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by leet1
What the hell, lol Im not lying :rolleyes: It was said on here, otherwise I wouldn't have said it.



Its the best designed mp3 player "for some"not all people.

So find the quote and post it!!!!!

leet1
Dec 10, 2003, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by captain kirk
So find the quote and post it!!!!!

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=611554&highlight=flash+players#post611554

Must have been what I saw :D or atleast similar

Phobophobia
Dec 10, 2003, 05:57 PM
leet1, you disgust me. That link says nothing about flash players selling more. All it says is that flash players sold more than HD this year, and HARDDRIVE BASED PLAYERS WILL SELL MORE NEXT YEAR.

leet1
Dec 10, 2003, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by Phobophobia
leet1, you disgust me. That link says nothing about flash players selling more. All it says is that flash players sold more than HD this year, and HARDDRIVE BASED PLAYERS WILL SELL MORE NEXT YEAR.

It says nothing about flash players selling more....


all it says is that flash players sold more than hd this year.....


I may disgust you....but you confuse me...lol


Chill and move along ;)

pgwalsh
Dec 10, 2003, 06:17 PM
5GB iPod for $ 99 - Budget Pod
10GB iPod for $149 - Momma Pod
20GB iPod for $199 - Uncle Zed's Pod
40Gb iPod for $299 - MacHead Pod
60Gb ipod for $399 - Daddy's Pod

:cool:

Lepton
Dec 10, 2003, 06:30 PM
How about 4GB, and half the physical size? New 1 inch hard drives are coming out from Toshiba, whi I believe currently supplies the 1.5 inch drives now used. My guess at the yet to be announced capacity is 4GB - could be larger. And smaller drive = lower power = smaller battery, so smaller everything results.

rdowns
Dec 10, 2003, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by mkaake
you are soooo *insert comment from person with no sense of humor here*- there's no way they'd be able to fit the heat sinks on that thing!

matt

Silly boy. Everyone knows Belkin will make an external one. Or was it Griffin?


edit-typo

rdowns
Dec 10, 2003, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by ~Shard~
Who is going to be buying iPods in January who didn't buy one for Christmas?

I think a price reduction would be great, but I question the timing.

All the people who get cash and Apple Store gift certificates for Xmas.

rdowns
Dec 10, 2003, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by achmafooma
Bingo. I don't have an iPod yet (it's on my list for next summer). When I do get one, one of my requirements is that it fit my whole collection with lots of room to spare (about 9gb at this time, and growing regularly).

I'm unpredictable when it comes to music. I could be listening to a Pink Floyd album, and then suddenly decide part-way through that I really want to hear "This is Where I Came In" by the Bee Gees or "Kim" by Eminem.

For example ;-)

And I never know which song or style I'll crave at any given moment. Part of the purpose of an iPod for me would be to have my entire music collection with me at all times.

But I certainly am not saying this is the only way to do it. Some people like the "playlist method," more power to 'em! But there are certainly people who prefer the "entire collection method" as well :-)

I like having my entire music collection with me. I have 20 or so Smart Playlists and frequently change them while working. Never know what mood strikes.

In the spirit of full disclosure, iPods are not compatible with Bee Gees music.

rdowns
Dec 10, 2003, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by narco
I'm not complaining, that's why the subject is "That's Business". Especially in the IT business.

I bought a 15gig iPod a week and a half before they released the 20 gig at the same price. Sucks, yeah, but I'm still happy with my iPod.

And I bought the 15GB 2 weeks after the 20 came out for $85 less. I'm happier!

shen
Dec 10, 2003, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by pgwalsh
5GB iPod for $ 99 - Budget Pod
10GB iPod for $149 - Momma Pod
20GB iPod for $199 - Uncle Zed's Pod
40Gb iPod for $299 - MacHead Pod
60Gb ipod for $399 - Daddy's Pod


that is a lot of models, but it does raise a question, when will we see a 10gig 30gig 60gig line up? that would be nice especially at those prices. but i won't hold my breath.

pgwalsh
Dec 10, 2003, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by shen
that is a lot of models, but it does raise a question, when will we see a 10gig 30gig 60gig line up? that would be nice especially at those prices. but i won't hold my breath. True, but you have a different audience at different price ranges. Once someone fills the 5GB most likely a kid... Then they'll want the 10 and so on.. Hopefully it'll be PC users too. :D

Gymnut
Dec 10, 2003, 08:48 PM
Considering how Apple revolutionized the MP3 player market with the induction of the iPod, there's little doubt that an entry level 5GB model priced within the $150.00-$200.00 range would prompt those sitting on the fence to dive in and make the purchase. If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, look no further than at the stream of look-a-likes that have sprung up seemingly overnight. Show me an mp3 player out on the market now that has the design, ease of use, and the integration with a player/on-line music store that of itunes.

Gymnut
Dec 10, 2003, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by leet1
I dont think they would blow anyone out of the water, lol. There are already 5 gig mp3 players out there for around $200

lol If that's the case, why is the iPod still the leading seller in HD based mp3 players?? lol If they're the "rectangular design" that you seem to think isn't very special, why do they outsell their lesser priced, higher capacity competitors. lol lol lol And don't give me that crap that Apple was on the scene first because Diamond Multimedia was the first to introduce the Rio 300, a flash based mp3 player. If the current line up is selling so well, who wouldn't think that a cheaper less capacity model wouldn't sell particularly well. lol lol lol Btw, the numbers don't lie.

~Shard~
Dec 10, 2003, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by Gymnut
lol If that's the case, why is the iPod still the leading seller in HD based mp3 players?? lol If they're the "rectangular design" that you seem to think isn't very special, why do they outsell their lesser priced, higher capacity competitors. lol lol lol And don't give me that crap that Apple was on the scene first because Diamond Multimedia was the first to introduce the Rio 300, a flash based mp3 player. If the current line up is selling so well, who wouldn't think that a cheaper less capacity model wouldn't sell particularly well. lol lol lol Btw, the numbers don't lie.
Thanks Gymnut, it's nice to see more logical, sensible, intelligent people on here, instead of people who seem to excessively use lol every second sentence.

contempt
Dec 10, 2003, 10:27 PM
Why would Apple release a cheaper iPod 2 weeks AFTER Christmas??? They would miss out since anyone who wanted a cheaper mp3 player would have already gone to the competition. The timing makes no sense at all.

pgwalsh
Dec 10, 2003, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by ~Shard~
Thanks Gymnut, it's nice to see more logical, sensible, intelligent people on here, instead of people who seem to excessively use lol every second sentence. lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol :p

I know quite a few young people that would love an iPod, but can't afford one. One person, it's just her and her mother. Her mother just lost her job at United. Tough to support a daughter while she's getting her degree at Berkeley let alone affording things like an iPod.. So a $99 isn't likely, but would really entice budget buyers.

~Shard~
Dec 10, 2003, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by pgwalsh
lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol :p


You know, even after that, I still don't find that as annoying as leet1's use of lol. ;)

68k_575
Dec 10, 2003, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by leet1
there is no design to a freaking rectangle lol


Design is not about tacking as much BS on as you can. Minimalism and simplicity equal good design more often than not, and especially in the iPod's case. If it had loads of extraneous crap all over it, it probably wouldn't have the cult following which is prevalent now.

~Shard~
Dec 10, 2003, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by 68k_575
Design is not about tacking as much BS on as you can. Minimalism and simplicity equal good design more often than not, and especially in the iPod's case. If it had loads of extraneous crap all over it, it probably wouldn't have the cult following which is prevalent now.
Wow, another intelligent reply - I'm glad I'm not alone here. I completely agree - the most important concepts of design in my opinion are simplicity and minimalism. Please refer to my earlier post commenting on my crappy iPod design ideas and someone telll me who would want to buy that thing - well, other than leet1 from the sounds of it. :cool:

leet1
Dec 11, 2003, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by ~Shard~
Thanks Gymnut, it's nice to see more logical, sensible, intelligent people on here, instead of people who seem to excessively use lol every second sentence.

oh shut the **** up, seriously. If someone doesn't agree with your opinion about a damn rectangle obviously, they are wrong. :rolleyes:

In my eyes, its a damn rectangle.

the most important concepts of design in my opinion are simplicity and minimalism.

IN YOUR OPINION <-----YOUR opinion........get it? its YOUR opinion.

Gymnut
Dec 11, 2003, 01:09 AM
Well that's one of the freedoms we enjoy, the freedom to choose. I agree, the iPod may not be for everyone, in terms of its size(being either too small/big) or its price. leet, your Rio obviously suits you as my Rio 300, 500, and 600 used to but your original qualm was that you didn't think that a 5GB iPod, reasonably priced between the $150.00-$200.00 range would cause so much of a blip on the radar screen of the mp3 player market. I agree, there are an assortment of mp3 players out now, a great deal many are cheaper and have higher capacities than that of the iPod. Yet despite all the advantages that these "iPod killers" have, the iPod still outmanages to outsell them all. And not only outsell them "new" but even used, the first and second generation iPods entertain a fantastic resale rate. If this is all so, it would be ludicrous to think that a cheaper entry level iPod would not sell. No offense but I felt your latter posts were to argue for arguments sake.

Gymnut
Dec 11, 2003, 01:16 AM
Food for thought.

http://www.macnn.com/news/20011

Gymnut
Dec 11, 2003, 01:18 AM
More updated food for thought. Again, the numbers do not lie.

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/main_news.cfm?NewsID=7090

arn
Dec 11, 2003, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by leet1
oh shut the **** up, seriously. If someone doesn't agree with your opinion about a damn rectangle obviously, they are wrong. :rolleyes:

In my eyes, its a damn rectangle.


Tone it down leet1.

There are ways to express your opinion without trying to piss people off. Please do so.

arn

leet1
Dec 11, 2003, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by arn
There are ways to express your opinion without trying to piss people off. Please do so.

arn

On this board? Not when your against the majority.

Gymnut
Dec 11, 2003, 01:47 AM
I do not believe the issue at hand was with the iPod being of a rectangular design. Yes, it being a rectangle is not a major selling point if at all. Many HD's are rectangular by nature so it's not difficult to see why the iPod is rectangular. What is the point is that yes, design opinions are exactly that, opinions, interpreted differently by people of all walks of life. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse but again the iPod is still king of the hill despite so many new entries in the mp3 player market that are cheaper and have higher capacities.

avus
Dec 11, 2003, 04:51 AM
It is sad to read someone implying that design is only constituted by shape or color. The secret of successful design is to strike the perfect balance of aesthetic and functionality, and the brilliance of the iPod has really been its circular control wheel, not the shape of the case by any means.

~Shard~
Dec 11, 2003, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by avus
It is sad to read someone implying that design is only constituted by shape or color. The secret of successful design is to strike the perfect balance of aesthetic and functionality, and the brilliance of the iPod has really been its circular control wheel, not the shape of the case by any means.

Thanks avus, well put.

~Shard~
Dec 11, 2003, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by leet1
oh shut the **** up, seriously. If someone doesn't agree with your opinion about a damn rectangle obviously, they are wrong. :rolleyes:

In my eyes, its a damn rectangle.


Ah, I see, now we’ve resorted to swearing at people – how mature. I was expecting another lol. And please quote my post where I said you were wrong – I believe all I ever commented on was your lack of a convincing argument and some illogical statements you made regarding design. You state your argument, I state mine. However the problem is that your original argument cited that a 5 GB iPod priced between $150-$200 would not even be noticed in the MP3 market. Yet over and over, the facts show that the iPod outsells them all and has a higher resell value than all of them – even if these competitors have larger capacities and smaller prices. If you presented more constructive arguments regarding your issues perhaps you wouldn’t receive the type of feedback you’re receiving right now.

Originally posted by leet1
IN YOUR OPINION <-----YOUR opinion........get it? its YOUR opinion.

Well thanks leet1, you sure have a talent for pointing out the obvious. My opinions are my opinions? Gee, thanks I wouldn’t have figured that out if you hadn’t pointed that out to me. “Get it? It’s your opinion?” - hmm, I think I do now... :rolleyes:

Can we please continue with an intelligent debate on this subject now, instead of resorting to immature swearing? Or is that too much to ask?

~Shard~
Dec 11, 2003, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by arn
Tone it down leet1.

There are ways to express your opinion without trying to piss people off. Please do so.

arn

Thanks Arn, it’s nice to see these forums don’t go unmoderated and unchecked. It's actually a welcome change from some forums I've been on where swearing, insulting, and immaturity prevade the discussions and run them into the ground.

ksz
Dec 12, 2003, 12:08 PM
This is silly.

It's the Defenders of the iPod against the Lone Holdout.

There is a lot of sense in both sides of this argument. If you think the iPod is the best designed MP3 player out there, fine. If you don't think so, also fine. The market is filled with choices, thank goodness, so that everyone can buy the product that rocks their boat the way they want it rocked.

You are arguing for and against peoples' personal tastes. You shouldn't do that.

shen
Dec 12, 2003, 12:38 PM
more importantly, sometimes people just don't get it. i mean come on, some people just can't see the point of an argument like "it works well" or maybe "it is easy to use" and for them, they want other things in their products.

come on people, this is a Mac board. how many windows users "will just never get it" no matter what you say to them? sometimes it really is a matter of what is important to them.

if "a well designed music player" means very small with neon lights and a curvy shape that has a built in clip for my pocket protector to someone, then i wish them luck, but i don't wish them an iPod.

having said that, anyone who thinks a $100-$145 5 gig iPod wouldn't sell is on crack. a friend just spent almost $100 for 256 megs in a player. yes, it is smaller than the iPod, but he just had to stick to a budget, he doesn't care about the size. if he could have waited a month and spent $50 more to get 5 gigs, he is going to be pissed!

ksz
Dec 12, 2003, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by shen
if "a well designed music player" means very small with neon lights and a curvy shape that has a built in clip for my pocket protector to someone, then i wish them luck...
No, if that's what they want, that's what they should get. Luck is not relevant. I am sold on the iPod (in fact I bought a 30GB for myself 6 months ago and three more last month as gifts), but it took a LONG time for me to justify the purchase of the first one. I think there are others that deliver better sound quality where more attention has been paid to the digital-to-analog converter and headphone amplifier. I won't go into all the reasons for and against my eventual decision to buy the iPod, but the fact remains that the iPod was not a love-at-first-sight, gotta-have-it thing for me. It's very well designed, certainly, but it still has lots of room for improvement.

shen
Dec 12, 2003, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by ksz
No, if that's what they want, that's what they should get. Luck is not relevant.

i meant luck in finding it! i haven't seen anything like that, but it wouldn't surprise me. :D