Diablo 3 Announced

[padré]

It just has been made official

www.blizzard.com

finally :)

[ReanimationLP]

Looks amazing too. I watched the live stream of the WWI Opening Ceremonies.

I wish Blizzard would give us a release month/date/sometime for SC2 and WotLK.

I gets the feeling this wont be coming out until the end of next year, beginning of 2010.

[JollyRogers]

Very cool! I know I'll be one of millions getting this :D

[w00master]

Just an FYI everyone, Diablo 3 will ship simultaneously on the Mac and PC!

http://tinyurl.com/6f5cmw

[Yvan256]

Just an FYI everyone, Diablo 3 will ship simultaneously on the Mac and PC!

Yes, Blizzard have been releasing their games for both Mac and PC at the same for quite a number of years now. It's also usually a dual-system package, i.e. you get both versions in the same box, so there's no need to hunt for a Mac version.

I sure hope Starcraft II and Diablo III can work on a Core 2 Duo Mac mini... that GMA950 is surely going to be a problem. :(

On the other hand, Apple will probably update the Mac mini and/or release a replacement system before either games are released. :D

[Fogtripper]

Having huge issues trying to load the pages from the site in Safari. Bah.

[seattle]

Gameplay looks great I hope it comes out soon.

[luffytubby]

please let it have third person camera and WASD controls... please please please.


I cant get used to isometric bird view camera and mouse control. its so 1995.

[ipoddin]

Does anyone know if D2 will play nice on modern Macs? I'm interested in reinstalling on my Mac Pro or iMac. Both running leopard

[padré]

it works fine for me on leopard on both my macbook pro and my mac pro

[Chone]

please let it have third person camera and WASD controls... please please please.


I cant get used to isometric bird view camera and mouse control. its so 1995.

It's Diablo... not Hellgate or Oblivion.

[luffytubby]

It's Diablo... not Hellgate or Oblivion.

welcome to 2008



goodbye 1996

[thejadedmonkey]

It's Diablo... not Hellgate or Oblivion.

Actually, Hellgate runs fine on any mac (with XP). I play it on my MBP with an x1600 card in it, and I recently installed it on a friends PC that has a GMA950 in it.. and it's not spectacular, but it's very playable. FSS has really polished the game, and had they released it about a year later then they did, it would be, IMO, a worthy competitor.

As for Diablo III, I'm not sure how I feel about it. The 3D design reminds me too much of Warcraft, and I'm not a big fan of that style. Hopefully they change the gamma or something of the game to make it feel more "darker"...

and what witch doctor looks amazing!

[martychang]

welcome to 2008



goodbye 1996

What? Isometric is superior for controlling complex action, which is what Diablo is. Time has nothing to do with it.

Not to mention if you actually watched the video you'd see that it's isometric mouse control already. I HIGHLY doubt they'll scrap it now.

[Yvan256]

What? Isometric is superior for controlling complex action, which is what Diablo is. Time has nothing to do with it.

Not to mention if you actually watched the video you'd see that it's isometric mouse control already. I HIGHLY doubt they'll scrap it now.

Not to mention that any other display method would be highly inefficient for a game such as Diablo III and Starcraft II, just like any MegaMan game that isn't in 2D just plain sucks. ;)

[Cander]

welcome to 2008



goodbye 1996

Since the keyboard existed before the mouse, wouldn't keyboard control be considered the old out of date way to control a player too?

:cool: ;)

Come on Blizzard!! Multi touch!!!!!

[nagromme]

welcome to 2008

goodbye 1996

Birds-eye isometric is 1996... but birds-eye in perspective is perfectly modern.

See Starcraft vs. Starcraft II for instance.

[Koreos]

Do you guys think this game would run on an actual Macbook 2.4 with 4GB ram? :(

[luffytubby]

What? Isometric is superior for controlling complex action, which is what Diablo is. Time has nothing to do with it.

Not to mention if you actually watched the video you'd see that it's isometric mouse control already. I HIGHLY doubt they'll scrap it now.

1)yes it has, and thats why its standard to use WASD in this day and age. a standard which WoW helped set.


2)I did watch the video(WTH would I comment if I had not?) and I never asked them to scrap it. I asked them to add WASD and third person view - See guild wars and neverwinter nights, which have both Point and click and WASD.



Not to mention that any other display method would be highly inefficient for a game such as Diablo III and Starcraft II, just like any MegaMan game that isn't in 2D just plain sucks. ;)

WASD would obviously suck for an RTS, however Diablo and starcraft are not the same thing.
As for your MegaMan argument, - it has nothing to do with MegaMan not being able to translate into 3D. Just like Zelda made the jump, and like Metroid and Super Mario and Metal Gear solid and so on and so forth, so can MegaMan.
People just got to be willing to move with the times.



My own theory is that Blizzard dont want their Wow Audience to go to Diablo III. Thats why they seperate the two games with different control schemes and such. it makes sense. WoW is a money hat with over 10 million subscribers. It does not make sense to take players over to a free game that will only give them revenue once.

[nhexima]

This looks pretty good, it's great that Blizzard is so supportive of the Mac platform. I love that they kept the isometric viewpoint, unlike say, Fallout 3.

The thing I'm worried about is if my semi-new iMac and my friend's semi-new MacBook (both from January of this year) will be able to play it whenever this comes out, probably mid-2010, I'd guess. By then our video cards will be pretty ancient...

[bluebomberman]

I highly doubt you'll see WASD controls or anything drastically different - they seemed to have gone to great lengths to make it like Diablo II, only more awesome.

Personally, I'm skeptical this will run on any Macs sporting GMA950s. Don't even ask about Power PCs.

[micsaund]

please let it have third person camera and WASD controls... please please please.


I cant get used to isometric bird view camera and mouse control. its so 1995.

3rd person controllable camera is PRECISELY why I hate many new games. I dislike having to manipulate the stupid camera in the middle of battles, especially when I turn and it zooms way-in because I'm against a wall or something stupid like that.

Another example: Rollercoaster Tycoon. I loved the first two versions without the "full 3D, moveable camera". RCT3? Junk, IMHO.

By knowing the angle the camera will always be at, the devs and artists can ensure that the graphics look good and don't have clipping issues.

Not every game *has* to have the "latest and newest" bells and whistles just because it can be done. Gameplay is tops and always will be. If people want massive 3D effects and other whiz-bang fluff, they can get some really good bargains in the $19.99 discount bin since it's filled with recent releases that failed to deliver on gameplay and instead went for wiz-bang graphics entirely... Me? I'll take a good game instead, please.

Mike

[wildcardd]

I would doubt WASD controls with a first person option. This is Diablo folks. Traditional click and slash isometric action. Prepare to go through a mouse or two before it is all said and done ;)

I can't wait. I might even buy the DII battle chest so I can play DII all over again. My original DII disk was version 1.0 and didn't have the mac version on it.

Wow has it really been 8 years since DII.

[nhexima]

And the original DII had a max resolution of 640x480, right?

[Eric5h5]

And the original DII had a max resolution of 640x480, right?

LOD allowed 800x600 though.


People just got to be willing to move with the times.

Using a ***THREEDEE!!!!!*** control scheme, just because you can, is not "moving with the times", it is called "bad gameplay." It's like lens flares and bloom. Overdone, and not cool anymore except when used sparingly.

--Eric

[luffytubby]

Using a ***THREEDEE!!!!!*** control scheme, just because you can, is not "moving with the times", it is called "bad gameplay." It's like lens flares and bloom. Overdone, and not cool anymore except when used sparingly.

--Eric

lol, that's an understatemente.


So third person view equals bad gameplay?

So WoW, Gears of War, JK2, Oblivion, Fable, Guild Wars, LOTRO, Age of Conan, Resident Evil 4, KOTOR, Morrowind, Bioshock, Halo, Battlefield, Crysis, Half-Life 2, Counter-Strike, Day of Defeat, Grand Theft Auto 3/VC/SA etc etc etc - All these games have bad gameplay.

They all suck because they didn't reduced themselfs to a narrow minded viewpoint, that kills perspective and scope for players who apparently don't have a problem with controlling a camera with the mouse, which is most logicial and immersive.

Thats really the key thing here. In the video when the Barbarian was "behind" a wall from the top down view, the entire wall became transparent and you could see through it - Its logicial and understandable why they would do this, but it's absolutely bullcrap since it kills the immersion.

I like making pretty characters and having the camera behind their backs. I like seeing them dodge sword attacks and arrow in real time from behind. I don't want a first person view, because that often feels like your just controlling a moving box in the air with no underbody(with a few exceptions like in Metroid, Crysis and Halo). I like a third person view from behind the character. you see what they see, but you also see yourself, and the things around you. you see what you character sees into the distance.

With a top down view like this, you dont get the sense of seeing anything.. you cant watch the sunset in the distance coming down from the mountains, you cant see epic large battles with 200 enemies charging at you from across a field.

its not about the combat, and perhaps not even about the controls, but simply about a point of view.

I am only saying this because I think the game looks ungodly awesome, but I never was an RTS player.. I was never good at aiming with the mouse, at by the time I got back into PC gaming, Diablo 2 was horrible outdated.


WoW has one of my favorite control schemes ever. I love how dynamic the camera and everything is. At no point has it ever become an inssue with me. your running around bunny hopping, watching close ups of your characters face and feel like that you are in complete control.

[Erasmus]

Well, I reckon it's pretty obvious Diablo 3 is running off the same engine as Starcraft 2. And I agree it looks pretty awesome. I have played Diablo, but I haven't played Diablo 2. I definitely enjoyed playing Diablo though, except for the dull linearity. Let's hope Diablo 3 is more like Oblivion in that respect. (I would assume D2 is like that, but I could be wrong)

Well, I guess this is a definite candidate for the list of games I have to have, which at the moment includes Spore, Starcraft 2, and any more Crysis games.

[Dagless]

Wow, some people *cof* luffytubby* don't really understand gameplay mechanics and fitting a camera style to suit the game.

The games you listed (at least the good ones) work well because that's how they're supposed to work. What about Age of Empires in a first person view? Yea - broken game. Half Life in 2D - broken game.
The Diablo, and many others gameplay works best with a camera above.

As someone said - just because you can do something with new engines doesn't mean you should. Best current example is how they made Smash Bros Brawl's primary control scheme the Gamecube controller, rather than gesture-based motion controls.

The application of technology isn't a gung-ho design philosophy.

And I can't wait for Diablo 3.

[luffytubby]

Wow, some people *cof* luffytubby* don't really understand gameplay mechanics and fitting a camera style to suit the game.

The games you listed (at least the good ones) work well because that's how they're supposed to work. What about Age of Empires in a first person view? Yea - broken game. Half Life in 2D - broken game.
The Diablo, and many others gameplay works best with a camera above.

As someone said - just because you can do something with new engines doesn't mean you should. Best current example is how they made Smash Bros Brawl's primary control scheme the Gamecube controller, rather than gesture-based motion controls.

The application of technology isn't a gung-ho design philosophy.

And I can't wait for Diablo 3.

but have they event tried?

i know they did it with neverwinter nights aswell.. it had arrow key control but that sucked. so click to move was best in that game aswell. and I know Titan Quest did it aswell.

and of course the hero units in Warcraft 3.



but... I dont know. I guess your right. I am not a gameplay designer. I can only say what I personally feel, and honestly I am really sad because I am not used to this. I feel its a step backwards to something I have not enjoyed when trying to play D2(I played it extensively, but never completed it or anything).



Well then - if its a matter of getting used to it, then I have to get used to it, but I dont think I can. it seems so alien. so slow. so... ackward.

[jimleszczynski]

Holy Smokes. Just watched the Gameplay trailer. And jizzed..

I am no longer excited about SC2. BRING ON D3!!!

[Eric5h5]

So third person view equals bad gameplay?

When grafted onto the wrong game, yes. I though it was exceedingly obvious that we're talking about Diablo, not FPS games or any other game where a 3D perspective is fine.

You can tilt the camera down in Warcraft3 so that you basically get a 3rd-person viewpoint. Does anyone ever play the game like that, ever? Answer: no. It sucks horribly.

(Although, honestly, I'm not thrilled about D3 anyway. I enjoyed D1; D2 not so much. It's nothing to do with the perspective, but the insanely repetitive clicking gets old. Hopefully D3 will be an improvement.)

--Eric

[wildcardd]

but have they event tried?

Yes, see: Hellgate London.

I still like the isometric perspective for a game like Diablo. Isometric is where it is at for that game.

[nagromme]

It's simply different kinds of games. Some people only like first-person shooters. Others only like 3rd-person platformers. Others only play racing games!

The Diablo series is what it is, and many people like it. Other people would better enjoy some other kind of game. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe they'd like some hybrid of Diablo 3 and WoW, and maybe someday someone will make that :)

[Littleodie914]

Yes, see: Hellgate London.

I still like the isometric perspective for a game like Diablo. Isometric is where it is at for that game.Yea, Hellgate London had both a third-person and a first-person view. I was actually pretty impressed with it too, me and my friend each got a copy and we thought it was pretty fun. Not quite up to Diablo standards, but close, and it held us over for a long while. :)

[rbarris]

Well, I reckon it's pretty obvious Diablo 3 is running off the same engine as Starcraft 2.

This turns out not to be the case.

[Erasmus]

This turns out not to be the case.

Really? I wonder why they chose not to. Seems like a big waste of time and money to me. I mean nothing says you can't have disappearing/transparent walls and a movable camera...
And is it just me, or do the baddies in D3 look, well, not very well done? The animations are fantastic, but I just think the textures look like crap.

[PlaceofDis]

Really? I wonder why they chose not to. Seems like a big waste of time and money to me. I mean nothing says you can't have disappearing/transparent walls and a movable camera...
And is it just me, or do the baddies in D3 look, well, not very well done? The animations are fantastic, but I just think the textures look like crap.

perhaps its just not a game for you?

[Chone]

but have they event tried?

i know they did it with neverwinter nights aswell.. it had arrow key control but that sucked. so click to move was best in that game aswell. and I know Titan Quest did it aswell.

and of course the hero units in Warcraft 3.



but... I dont know. I guess your right. I am not a gameplay designer. I can only say what I personally feel, and honestly I am really sad because I am not used to this. I feel its a step backwards to something I have not enjoyed when trying to play D2(I played it extensively, but never completed it or anything).



Well then - if its a matter of getting used to it, then I have to get used to it, but I dont think I can. it seems so alien. so slow. so... ackward.

You don't seem to understand, Diablo III is a Diablo game, it's not called World of Diablo or Diablo Adventures or Diablo Beyond the Dark Portal, it's called Diablo III and as such it must remain a Diablo game.

If you haven't played the previous games then you wouldn't understand but if you have (and most gamers above the age of 15 have played the games) then you wouldn't want Blizzard to re-invent the franchise, you just want an improvement.

For those who want a revolutionary RPG, wait for a new franchise or a spinoff, Diablo IV (when it comes in 2020) will probably maintain the isometric perspective :), if not, it won't be released.

Catch my drift?

P.D: Blizzard, being the meticulous developers they are, probably tried a bunch of perspectives for Diablo and decided isometric was the way to go, if there's a developer you can trust it's Blizzard. They don't take decades to release their games because they're lazy you know.

[Erasmus]

perhaps its just not a game for you?

Shrug, we'll see.

[luffytubby]

You don't seem to understand, Diablo III is a Diablo game, it's not called World of Diablo or Diablo Adventures or Diablo Beyond the Dark Portal, it's called Diablo III and as such it must remain a Diablo game.

If you haven't played the previous games then you wouldn't understand but if you have (and most gamers above the age of 15 have played the games) then you wouldn't want Blizzard to re-invent the franchise, you just want an improvement.

For those who want a revolutionary RPG, wait for a new franchise or a spinoff, Diablo IV (when it comes in 2020) will probably maintain the isometric perspective :), if not, it won't be released.

Catch my drift?

P.D: Blizzard, being the meticulous developers they are, probably tried a bunch of perspectives for Diablo and decided isometric was the way to go, if there's a developer you can trust it's Blizzard. They don't take decades to release their games because they're lazy you know.

That does not make any sense. You keep clinging on to the fact that its a Diablo game, so it should stick to gameplay that was relevant almost ten years ago.


Thank the heavens for you not being a game developer. with that attitude, many franchises like Super Mario 64/Metroid Prime/Zelda OOT/Prince of Persia SOT, would never have made the transistion into 3D, which was both logical, groundbreaking, a risk and overall the right thing to do.


Yeah, I HAVE PLAYED Diablo. And I rather liked it, lol. But that does not mean, that things that was okay 8-10 years ago, is okay to do. Things have moved forward.
I suggest you try understanding that before going on a parade how it's "the right thing to do" or use some childish mentality like "if it ain't broken don't fix it".


Yes, see: Hellgate London.

I still like the isometric perspective for a game like Diablo. Isometric is where it is at for that game.


Well played, sir. Except, HGL is made by people no longer working at Blizzard. Or maybe you wanted to argue that Flagship Studos failures, confirms that another company, AND franchise should go another route not to face similiar dimise?
*scratches head* Okay, I will play ball - HGL was a game that sucked, due to being released to early. Most likely forced by their incompetent publisher, EA, which took over when Namco jumped shift.
HGL had the right ideas going for it, and the controls, camera and semi-real time combat was all handed reasonable well. It's failures didn't really have anything to do with being third person.
Or that is unless... Of course, that you seriously want to argue that all third person view games are horrible?



When grafted onto the wrong game, yes. I though it was exceedingly obvious that we're talking about Diablo, not FPS games or any other game where a 3D perspective is fine.

You can tilt the camera down in Warcraft3 so that you basically get a 3rd-person viewpoint. Does anyone ever play the game like that, ever? Answer: no. It sucks horribly.

(Although, honestly, I'm not thrilled about D3 anyway. I enjoyed D1; D2 not so much. It's nothing to do with the perspective, but the insanely repetitive clicking gets old. Hopefully D3 will be an improvement.)

--Eric

Thats great Eric. You can tilt the camera down in Warcraft 3.

1)You can also tilt the camera down in Diablo III. But this is not a third person perspective. Its merely... as you said, tilting the camera down. Has nothing to do with anything.

2)Warcraft 3 is an RTS.


In Diablo you slay monsters - grafted onto the wrong game? Are you kidding me? name one element that would make it unconvienent to be used in third person perspective?
if you look at anything from guild wars to gears of war to resident evil to ninja gaiden, to bla bla bla bla... all games about killing things.
Its exactly the same in Diablo.
there is nothing in the game that suggests that its more reasonable to stare down into some boring ground textures.



I am pretty convinced that its something they do, not to interfere with WoWs succes. dont want all their addicted subscribers to go over to the free game. makes sense.

[angelneo]

And is it just me, or do the baddies in D3 look, well, not very well done? The animations are fantastic, but I just think the textures look like crap.

I think it's a matter of preferences, personally I think they look very good.

EDIT:
That does not make any sense. You keep clinging on to the fact that its a Diablo game, so it should stick to gameplay that was relevant almost ten years ago.

I think it boils down to gameplay, graphics might make the game nice, modern and cool, but ultimately, it depends on the whole package. Between choosing an isometric or 3D view, I think it's a matter of preferences. I don't think you can fault blizzard if they choose to go the isometric view.

[padré]

Personally I don't care about the camera angle, as long as it works :), I'm glad they decided to keep the old camera angle, cause it feels familiar for a diablo game...

as far as graphics go, I must admid I was hoping for a more detailed world, more gothic and les saturaded. there are some pics on the net eddited by fans
to make them look more diablo'ish, and i must admid that those look allot more diablo'ish and fit more to the music...

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/7807/itshouldrh5.jpg
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8366/contrastqj1.jpg

:)

[luffytubby]

I think it boils down to gameplay, graphics might make the game nice, modern and cool, but ultimately, it depends on the whole package. Between choosing an isometric or 3D view, I think it's a matter of preferences. I don't think you can fault blizzard if they choose to go the isometric view.

No, I guess not.

Maybe I will get used to it. Who knows.

[chaosbunny]

Do you guys think this game would run on an actual Macbook 2.4 with 4GB ram? :(

Considering it probably won't come until 2010, I even doubt my hd2600 pro iMac will be able to play it, let alone a macbook.

But well, 2009/10 is the time I plan to replace my PowerBook with a MacBook Pro anyway. :)

[CyberGeek]

In regards to the camera perspective:

My guess would be that Blizzard opted for the isometric camera because of tradition and because in a game where you want to constantly swarm the player from all sides, and the player needs to respond to attack from any direction quickly, it is better to deliver a camera perspective that allows players to see around them in all directions to a more or less equal degree. While a third-person camera allows for a drastic increase in the amount of stuff you can see in front of you, it comes at a cost of a decrease in the amount of stuff you can see behind you. When an attack is just about as likely to come from behind as it is from the front, that would not be very good.

In regards to WoW players:

I don't think Blizzard is making a deliberate effort to dissuade WoW players from Diablo III. To the contrary, I think they're actively trying to attract them. Diablo III's UI has taken clear design cues from WoW, such that a WoW player can look at it and immediately see, "Oh that's an experience bar and that's an action bar." Furthermore, the game's art style is similar to the style in WoW, albeit a bit darker and significantly bloodier. Finally, Blizzard posted the Diablo III announcement, amongst other sites, on the official World of Warcraft site. I think Blizzard is hoping people will spend the one time fee on Diablo, but won't give up their monthly subscriptions to WoW, which doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility to me.

[Lord Blackadder]

Hey! something to get me back into games!

I'm not a "gamer" by any standard, but Diablo II was one game I really enjoyed and have continued to play (a little here and there). I can't believe it's been ten years since it was announced.

I like the idea of keeping things similar to the previous titles - making the game third person with WASD controls etc. would intrude on other Blizzard titles and take the game away from the original paradigm. People accused Diablo 1&2 of repetitive game play and there is some truth in that, but I have enjoyed the game and kept playing it for years...and judging by sales figures many, many others have also.

This game should be coming out right about the time I'm looking to replace one fo my G4 machines with a new Mac, so I'll be ready, credit card in hand, when it arrives.;)

I just wish the interweb was running faster so I can check out the D3 site...

[Chone]

That does not make any sense. You keep clinging on to the fact that its a Diablo game, so it should stick to gameplay that was relevant almost ten years ago.


Thank the heavens for you not being a game developer. with that attitude, many franchises like Super Mario 64/Metroid Prime/Zelda OOT/Prince of Persia SOT, would never have made the transistion into 3D, which was both logical, groundbreaking, a risk and overall the right thing to do.


Yeah, I HAVE PLAYED Diablo. And I rather liked it, lol. But that does not mean, that things that was okay 8-10 years ago, is okay to do. Things have moved forward.
I suggest you try understanding that before going on a parade how it's "the right thing to do" or use some childish mentality like "if it ain't broken don't fix it".


Thank god you aren't a developer either because you seem to think that just because we can do something means we should. Blizzard is the game developer, they know what they are doing and they are the ones who know what works for their game and guess what? They chose isometric

Before you call my mentality childish just think about this, many people absolutely loved Diablo and they expect Diablo III to feel like a Diablo game, you think it would feel like so if it was in a 3rd/1st person perspective?

Many games are still being done in isometric, Titan Quest was pretty enjoyable, Mythos (from the makers of HG:L) is isometric, Space Siege (from Gas Powered Games) is isometric and they are all incredible games (well maybe not SS because it's not released yet but it has potential).

Before you feel like you are the authority in what works in games maybe you should see what developers are doing. Flagship Studios actually tried and released an RPG with 3rd-1st person perspective and yet their new game is an isometric one, that should tell you something.

And your claims about Diablo not being 3rd person because it would mess up with WoW are just plain stupid, Diablo is not even an online RPG, it's a story based RPG with a definite start and end that can be played online for PvP and going through the game in co-op, it doesn't even play like Guild Wars or Mythos online much less like World of Warcraft.

Maybe Blizzard will do 3rd/1st person for one of their RPGs but like I told you, it won't be Diablo IV.

[MyDesktopBroke]

There is a petition online asking Blizzard to remember the old Diablo 1 & 2 feel for the coloring & environment. Read the petition, if you agree, sign it.

http://www.petitiononline.com/d3art/petition.html

If you like it as it is, don't sign it. It's as simple as that.

[nagromme]

(For the record, Diablo 3 is NOT isometric. Isometric means no perspective. If things are smaller the farther they are, like Diablo, than that's not isometric, merely an overhead view which is an update of the old isometric gameplay into true 3D. Just like was done with Starcraft 2.)

[Overquill]

I, for one, love the fact that they're remaining in the overhead view. Changing the perspective would only make the game appear like many other games out there, and that's probably something that Diablo should stay away from.

For me, I've been playing D2 for years, and what makes the experience great has little to do with gameplay (click, click, click repeat). It's about the randomly generated content that makes multiplayer feel different every time you play. It's about the loot and the character trees to make the ultimate character. You then discuss your stats with your mates, and then debate merits of your own philosophies.

D2 was a remarkably social game for me, and it still keeps pulling me and my friends together. Admittedly, it's not as often as before, but we'll still often find ourselves breaking out D2 if we're stuck for a game to play at a LAN.

[MacinJosh]

I still play D2 LoD once in a while along with WoW. I'm stoked that D2 patch 1.12 solved the OpenGL problem and now works just fine on my intel iMac. I can't wait for D3!!

Joshua.

[esXXI]

The whole reason for Diablo's fixed-angle camera was to stop you from being able to see further than Blizzard wanted. "Fog" doesn't add the same sort of tension and ends up looking very poor in a dynamic camera environment (try playing WoW with max draw distance for a week then use minimum draw distance).

Diablo with WoW (or any other "action" MMO/RPG) style camera would reduce the point-click RPG style gameplay to basically a gritty WoW-feel. If Diablo players wanted to play WoW, they would.

[luffytubby]

In regards to the camera perspective:

My guess would be that Blizzard opted for the isometric camera because of tradition and because in a game where you want to constantly swarm the player from all sides, and the player needs to respond to attack from any direction quickly, it is better to deliver a camera perspective that allows players to see around them in all directions to a more or less equal degree. While a third-person camera allows for a drastic increase in the amount of stuff you can see in front of you, it comes at a cost of a decrease in the amount of stuff you can see behind you. When an attack is just about as likely to come from behind as it is from the front, that would not be very good.

In regards to WoW players:

I don't think Blizzard is making a deliberate effort to dissuade WoW players from Diablo III. To the contrary, I think they're actively trying to attract them. Diablo III's UI has taken clear design cues from WoW, such that a WoW player can look at it and immediately see, "Oh that's an experience bar and that's an action bar." Furthermore, the game's art style is similar to the style in WoW, albeit a bit darker and significantly bloodier. Finally, Blizzard posted the Diablo III announcement, amongst other sites, on the official World of Warcraft site. I think Blizzard is hoping people will spend the one time fee on Diablo, but won't give up their monthly subscriptions to WoW, which doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility to me.

Okay, you got me. The first part in particularly makes sense. I can see the logic behind that now.

You are right. In the video, the Barbarian was swarmed by Ghouls coming up the walls from all sides. You are right, about having a better perspective from an Isometric view.
That was a good argument mate. I agree with you now.

[luffytubby]

Thank god you aren't a developer either because you seem to think that just because we can do something means we should. Blizzard is the game developer, they know what they are doing and they are the ones who know what works for their game and guess what? They chose isometric

Before you call my mentality childish just think about this, many people absolutely loved Diablo and they expect Diablo III to feel like a Diablo game, you think it would feel like so if it was in a 3rd/1st person perspective?

Many games are still being done in isometric, Titan Quest was pretty enjoyable, Mythos (from the makers of HG:L) is isometric, Space Siege (from Gas Powered Games) is isometric and they are all incredible games (well maybe not SS because it's not released yet but it has potential).

Before you feel like you are the authority in what works in games maybe you should see what developers are doing. Flagship Studios actually tried and released an RPG with 3rd-1st person perspective and yet their new game is an isometric one, that should tell you something.

And your claims about Diablo not being 3rd person because it would mess up with WoW are just plain stupid, Diablo is not even an online RPG, it's a story based RPG with a definite start and end that can be played online for PvP and going through the game in co-op, it doesn't even play like Guild Wars or Mythos online much less like World of Warcraft.

Maybe Blizzard will do 3rd/1st person for one of their RPGs but like I told you, it won't be Diablo IV.


My frustration comes from this:

- The thing I like about games, like World of Warcraft, and Age of Conan is that its fun to customize and create your own character. It's cool to be part of a big world, and be "uniqe" in it. Its cool to have an incredible immersive experience, where your uniqe alter ego walks around with other uniqe heroes and battles.

I felt that the third person view, was better than isometric and first person perspective, because it gave more focus on the character you where playing - What he/she was wearing in terms of gear and weapons, aswell as the uniqe looks you gave her/him at character creation.


Diablo III is still fixed on pre-made heroes. I did not realise that it was like Diablo II and Warcraft III where the classes and heroes, where all characters who was pre made and only made you able to choose name.
If you can't choose hairstyle, facial features like scars and all that sort of stuff, I can see that the need for close up views of your character is not needed, and isometric makes sense.
I just assumed(I guess because Mythos has it) that it would allow character customization.



I like the fantasy setting. I am annoyed that all the fast non time-consuming action games are all about guns, and not about wizards and swords. The only fantasy games you can get are mostly RPGs and RTS games and they are both time consuming.
I miss fast paced action fantasy games, where you can chop other peoples heads of in real time with a sword.


Thats whats so cool about Diablo III. The narrator in the gameplay video, aswell as developers in the panal videos said that they tried going the route of recharging health like in Halo, and they tried sticking with potions, but they didnt wanted the players to get out of the action, so they made old school health bubbles drop on the floor to keep the players in the action at all times. Thats so cool.



The great thing about FPS games that you can get something fun out of them for like 2-5 minutes before eating dinner, but a WoW session takes hours to get anything done when you get far enough into the game, and that sucks. Because then its like work, and then your not entertained, but constrained and stressed about having to change your everyday schedule just to be able to play WoW, which defeats the purpose of being entertained by a game.
Not that WoW is bad or anything(it's great).

I just wanted to see some fantasy games that mixed the character customization, personallity, epic feel, individuality known from WoW and similiar games, with non-time consuming fast paced real time gameplay seen in online first person games.

There was the Steam game that ran on Source, Dark Messiah but that was not very good, and there has been talk about the game project offset, but we havent heard about that in a long time(I suspect it wont make it...)

[Spikeanator6982]

anyone feel that a current MBP or the last gen MBP wouldn't run D3 decently?

I am pumped for this.:D sooner the better, as long as it works and is great.

[crimrow]

please let it have third person camera and WASD controls... please please please.
I cant get used to isometric bird view camera and mouse control. its so 1995.

So many people consider this to be one of the charms of Diablo in general. They are thrilled it is making a come back.

I must admit that it works for me and many games have copied this approach. While it may be 1995 there are many things throughout history that are done well and do not need to be drastically improved up. This might just be one of those things.

[redsteven]

I've spent more time playing blizzard games than the amount of time I've spent playing games from all other companies combined.

I'm confidant that diablo III will be awesome.

i just hope it doesn't have magic find in it :)
While it's a nice idea, it creates a dramatic divide between the "rich," well-equipped players and the "poor" not so well-equipped players.

[BrittQ]

I too am interested to the system requirements...

Will 2.4 MBP w/ 4gig do the job?

[twistedlegato]

I too am interested to the system requirements...

Will 2.4 MBP w/ 4gig do the job?

I would definitely think so! :)

[HiRez]

Personally I don't care about the camera angle, as long as it works :), I'm glad they decided to keep the old camera angle, cause it feels familiar for a diablo game...

as far as graphics go, I must admid I was hoping for a more detailed world, more gothic and les saturaded. there are some pics on the net eddited by fans
to make them look more diablo'ish, and i must admid that those look allot more diablo'ish and fit more to the music...

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/7807/itshouldrh5.jpg
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8366/contrastqj1.jpg

:)You know, I had watched the D3 trailers, and then heard about these complaints, and the petition about the artwork, and I thought to myself "These are just some hardcore nuts who want everything black and colorless. I mean look at the game, it looks gorgeous! Painterly I would even say."

But then, I started really thinking about it, and I read the petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/d3art/petition.html) and looked at the modified sample images, and while I think the writing in the petition is dreadful and repetitive and wandering, and didn't help their case, I'm actually starting to think they are really onto something there.

There was something about the first two Diablos that seems to be missing in the new gameplay trailers. Darker yes, but it's the feeling that's missing. One of the things about the old Diablos is that you just couldn't see anything at the edges of the screen and that really created a claustrophobic sense of terror, fear of the unknown of what might be watching you or coming for you from right in front of you. Or behind. Or the side. That element, for me, seems to be completely gone from the gameplay trailers I watched, and that is a huge problem!

When you look at the new artwork on its own, with no context, it is gorgeous. The colors and the lighting are beautiful. But it's not Diablo. The more I started to examine those images, the more I really did see the World of Warcraft influence in it, and it's much heavier that I realized at first. The armor models really do look like they were taken straight out of WoW, and they look ridiculous.

Well, we'll see. Blizzard has made so many amazing games that I am hesitant to doubt them, but I think they did go a little to far with this new look, and lose track of what made the first two games so great. That doesn't mean they need to start from scratch. The environmental textures and basic graphic engine look great, I think they just need to mute down the colors a lot and not make every part of the frame visible at all times. These may actually be things they could have user-settable adjustments for in the graphic options, to make everyone happy. Lighting and desaturation can easily be modified in the game, in real time.

Also I think some of you are not right when you say it's an isometric view. An isometric view is one fixed at exact 45-degree angles, making the three axes exactly 120° apart, and without perspective (that is, parallel object lines always appear parallel on screen, they never converge). If you look at the screenshots, clearly Diablo III has an adjustable camera and can show perspective views. It's not exactly first person, but that doesn't make it isometric.

[mikeyPotg]

I just wish it would come out by next year! I'm thinking at least a year and a half though... Definitely sometime in 2010.
And I wish there were more than 5 initial characters. I'm sure the expansion will at 2 more, but I love my options.
Regarding character customization. Of course I'd love that (especially if it were like city of heroes!) but once you get the armor and weapons, you won't be able to see your initial character anyway I guess.

[brodeur]

since the third-person, back-of-the-head perspective became the norm in video games, i've found that every video game has looked and felt a little too similar for my tastes. get bored of one, get bored of them all. before 3D, i think there was a lot more creativity on the part of the developers as far as making games more unique.

[Kyouya]

Stacraft 2...Diablo 3.. natively for OS X..

Oh Blizzard, you are so damn awesome.

[Xavier]

SC2 , D3, new WoW-Like MMO...

Blizzard, what CANT you do?